:01:13. > :01:15.Greens steal the thunder of the bigger parties in our council
:01:15. > :01:25.elections. But who really makes the political
:01:25. > :01:25.
:01:25. > :38:35.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2230 seconds
:38:35. > :38:42.weather when county councils go out We all know two wrongs don't make a
:38:42. > :38:47.right but what do to rights make? Today's guests, that is what. On the
:38:47. > :38:51.right, Mr Wright. On the left, Mr Wright. Jeremy Wright is the
:38:51. > :38:57.Conservative MP for Kenilworth and Southam. He is also a minister at
:38:57. > :39:02.the Justice Department. David Wright on the left is the Labour MP for
:39:02. > :39:10.Telford in Shropshire and he was a member of the whips team under
:39:10. > :39:15.Gordon Brown's government. You are not related. We are not. We are not
:39:15. > :39:21.trying to set up a separate little party, you will be pleased to hear.
:39:21. > :39:25.Just as well. These results were not great. In Warwickshire, your party
:39:25. > :39:32.lost overall control. What went through your mind as you saw the
:39:32. > :39:36.declarations taking shape? They were not great results. I felt sorry for
:39:36. > :39:43.the councillors who had worked very hard and have lost their seats for
:39:43. > :39:47.reasons tangentially connected to the job they were doing. And sorry
:39:47. > :39:53.for the candidates who did not succeed. They were not good results.
:39:53. > :39:57.We need to keep them in perspective and understand it is a big vote for
:39:57. > :40:05.UKIP and Rob looms for all three major parties reflecting, I think
:40:05. > :40:10.frustration on the part of the electorate. I think perhaps we have
:40:10. > :40:16.not done a good enough job of explaining to the electorate the
:40:16. > :40:20.progress we have made. You are the only Labour MP in Shropshire, a
:40:20. > :40:26.county still firmly under the control of the Conservatives.
:40:26. > :40:36.look at the elections this week, they were in predominantly sorry --
:40:36. > :40:38.
:40:38. > :40:44.solid Tory boroughs. I think Staffs shows good examples of the progress
:40:44. > :40:47.Labour is making. I think in general terms, it was steady progress in
:40:47. > :40:52.council areas that have been historically controlled by the
:40:52. > :40:58.Conservatives. Two years ago, they said we were not an effect of
:40:58. > :41:03.opposition. We are putting the arguments. I accept that people are
:41:03. > :41:06.a bit turned off by all of us at the moment and it creates a protest.
:41:06. > :41:13.issue that has played very strongly in Warwickshire and Staffordshire is
:41:13. > :41:21.high-speed rail. As a Warwickshire MP and a member of the government,
:41:21. > :41:26.that is the sort of issue where people feel the top sub parties --
:41:26. > :41:30.the top parties are out of touch. have no issue of high-speed rail but
:41:30. > :41:35.I think they have picked the wrong route. What is interesting about
:41:36. > :41:39.UKIP is that they went into the 2010 general election being in favour of
:41:40. > :41:43.high-speed rail. They wanted to see three high-speed rail lines. They
:41:43. > :41:48.have seen an opportunity and they have taken advantage by coming out
:41:48. > :41:54.against HS2. We will have to understand more on their policy
:41:54. > :41:59.position as time goes by. Our part of the country so often the heart of
:41:59. > :42:05.written's electoral battlefield is usually a broadly 2-party affair.
:42:05. > :42:10.This time UKIP and the Green Party scored major successes which they
:42:10. > :42:14.see as game changers. Labour and the Tories were relative underachievers,
:42:14. > :42:20.summed up by the money shot of the past few days, the disappointment
:42:20. > :42:26.etched on the face of the Conservative MP Aidan Burley. For
:42:26. > :42:30.hardy souls braising the Thursday night counts, this was about as good
:42:30. > :42:38.as it got for Labour. Raising hopes they might was first almost of the
:42:38. > :42:42.tide that had swept them from power. Great night for us. I think
:42:42. > :42:50.we have a chance now of forming a very solid shadow cabinet and
:42:50. > :42:54.hopefully even more and perhaps even holding the balance. But the Tories
:42:54. > :42:58.were cheering when the rest of the results salvaged their majority,
:42:58. > :43:04.albeit much reduced. Gloucestershire colleagues were not so lucky, losing
:43:04. > :43:09.control in the case of so near yet so far. We were short of an overall
:43:09. > :43:13.majority by 200 votes. I think that reflects lost to share as a whole.
:43:13. > :43:19.It is a very marginal county and there are a number of marginal
:43:19. > :43:28.parliamentary seats -- I think it reflects Gloucestershire as a whole.
:43:28. > :43:31.The Conservatives lost control of Warwickshire too. This is a
:43:31. > :43:37.reflection of our strength across the West Midlands. We have been
:43:37. > :43:43.growing very fast. People are going for our policies, ensuring we make
:43:43. > :43:47.the minimum wage a minimum wage and get rid of zero hours contracts and
:43:47. > :43:52.build a strong local economy. was Showtime for UKIP. While the
:43:52. > :43:58.Tories retained Worcestershire, it was the new UKIP councillors who
:43:58. > :44:04.grabbed the headlines. Today is a momentous day in political history.
:44:04. > :44:08.A party has gone from nowhere, from nothing, to polling nationally at
:44:08. > :44:13.30%. The Tories retained Shropshire. The Lib Dems gained seats here and
:44:13. > :44:17.in Gloucestershire. Despite being obliterated in Staffordshire, the
:44:17. > :44:21.Lib Dems remain the third party of local government with four times as
:44:21. > :44:25.many councillors as Nigel Farage's 40. Politics is so often about
:44:25. > :44:31.momentum and it is UKIP and the Green Party who have it.
:44:31. > :44:35.As I said, we will be talking about UKIP in a few minutes. Let us begin
:44:35. > :44:40.by thinking about the impact on what we have always thought of as the
:44:40. > :44:44.main free parties. I am also joint buying Mick Temple, a professor at
:44:44. > :44:50.Staffordshire University. Were there any surprises in this outcome in the
:44:50. > :44:54.Midlands? The big surprise was how badly Labour did in the areas they
:44:54. > :45:00.were expected to win. The Green Party made steady progress. UKIP did
:45:00. > :45:04.well but they did not gain many seats but 25% overall in the West
:45:04. > :45:09.Midlands is pretty impressive. lesson is that if the mood is none
:45:09. > :45:14.of the above it is tough on parties that are one of the above. Looking
:45:14. > :45:19.at the Conservatives, there is doom and gloom. In fact, it is not as bad
:45:19. > :45:23.as you might think. In 2009, they did really well in the elections. We
:45:23. > :45:26.are halfway through a parliament in which as the senior party of a
:45:27. > :45:31.governing coalition they really are very unpopular on a number of
:45:31. > :45:36.issues. The economy is still to recover. Yet they retain control of
:45:36. > :45:39.three councils and did pretty well in the two that they lost overall
:45:40. > :45:45.control of. I am puzzled about the Liberal Democrats. I was watching
:45:45. > :45:50.the results in Staffordshire where there were annihilated. In
:45:50. > :45:55.Shropshire and Gloucestershire, they picked up seats. What is going on?
:45:55. > :46:00.As always, the Lib Dems have some places where they are strong locally
:46:00. > :46:07.and that is the key to their future. It is one of the things that
:46:08. > :46:13.UKIP lack. At times that says the Lib Dems from the sort of nightmare
:46:13. > :46:18.scenario we have seen nationwide. Labour are actually the biggest
:46:18. > :46:22.losers of the lot because you did pile up extra support in the
:46:22. > :46:26.all-important marginal places like Cannock, Tamworth, Staffordshire.
:46:26. > :46:31.But nowhere near enough. This should be a golden scenario for any
:46:31. > :46:36.opposition party with the economy as it is and people in the Midlands
:46:36. > :46:40.hurting as they are. I do not think that is the case. A lot of the
:46:40. > :46:45.counties were very rock solid blue counties. It is difficult to make
:46:45. > :46:51.regress. Staffordshire, looking at the parliamentary seats, we
:46:51. > :46:56.performed very well, Cannock Chase is an example. Stafford, we have a
:46:56. > :47:02.great candidate there. Burton, Tamworth, these seats are turning to
:47:02. > :47:07.Labour. Those are the seats we have to win in order to deliver a victory
:47:07. > :47:12.at the general election. You have got to break down the county results
:47:12. > :47:16.and look at some of the key target marginals. Looking at those, we are
:47:16. > :47:21.doing extremely well, predominantly in the larger towns. The thing that
:47:21. > :47:26.struck me in Staffordshire is how low the morale is among your
:47:26. > :47:29.activists on the ground. A lot of them feel a certain amount of
:47:29. > :47:35.sympathy privately with the arguments that UKIP are putting and
:47:35. > :47:40.I thought, is the atmosphere for the Tories even mutinous among the very
:47:40. > :47:46.people who you need to deliver an election campaign next year in the
:47:46. > :47:51.general election the year after that? There is a frustration and it
:47:51. > :47:58.mirrors the frustration of the electorate. We are frustrated that
:47:58. > :48:02.we are not doing as good a job as we should be about doing the message --
:48:02. > :48:08.getting the message across. There is no reason for us to panic. But we
:48:08. > :48:12.should recognise we have got to do a better job at getting the messages
:48:12. > :48:15.across. I do not think a lot of the people who voted UKIP last week will
:48:15. > :48:19.have fully realise that we have succeeded in getting immigration
:48:20. > :48:25.down by a third. They will not have fully realise that we are getting
:48:25. > :48:29.the deficit down and offering and in out referendum in the next
:48:29. > :48:34.parliament if there is a Conservative government. We must
:48:34. > :48:39.bear our share of responsible at it for the failure to get the message
:48:39. > :48:41.across but it is a failure of communication. Or is it the
:48:41. > :48:44.message? Things like the environment, gay marriage, these
:48:44. > :48:49.issues that work well in Notting Hill and Chipping Norton, it does
:48:49. > :48:55.not play well in Cannock, Stafford and Nuneaton? Della macro key is the
:48:55. > :48:58.economy. People would say it is absolutely crucial. It is
:48:58. > :49:03.disappointing that the economy is not turning round as fast as we
:49:03. > :49:08.would like it to. There are a number of reasons. One of our main markets,
:49:08. > :49:11.the Eurozone, is not recovering either. The fundamentals are right
:49:11. > :49:17.and we must stick to our guns because the truth is you cannot
:49:17. > :49:22.solve a problem caused by debt, �100 million paid on debt interest every
:49:22. > :49:28.day, buy more debt. We need to stick to the plan.
:49:29. > :49:34.This is where we press the pause button. To be continued. We used to
:49:34. > :49:40.call it the UKIP factor. Now it is UKIP fact. They succeeded in
:49:40. > :49:43.translating their poll ratings into votes. Up to 35% in some parts
:49:43. > :49:49.Staffordshire on the route of the proposed high-speed railway line.
:49:49. > :49:55.The party also has fewer councillors in Staffordshire than before. And
:49:55. > :50:05.none at all in Shropshire and Warwickshire.
:50:05. > :50:19.
:50:19. > :50:23.UKIP, 1652. UKIP, 1792. Paul White, UKIP, 1402. Got the message? Be
:50:23. > :50:27.rising star in the Midlands elections consistently polled a
:50:27. > :50:31.quarter of the votes. It makes uncomfortable weekend reading for
:50:31. > :50:36.Conservative MPs so how do you solve a problem like UKIP? A referendum on
:50:36. > :50:39.Europe in the next 12 months rather than after the next general election
:50:39. > :50:45.is this MP's answer. UKIP have done incredibly well in these local
:50:46. > :50:53.elections. One of the things that have to be said is that of course if
:50:53. > :50:57.they did equally well in the general election then we would lose shed
:50:57. > :51:02.loads of marginal seats. That means we would not be able to win the
:51:02. > :51:09.election which would mean that on the basis of David Cameron's present
:51:09. > :51:13.promise about having a referendum in 2017 we would not get the referendum
:51:13. > :51:18.because we would not be in power and his promise would collapse. Was it a
:51:18. > :51:23.mistake for David Cameron to call UKIP members fruitcakes? I certainly
:51:23. > :51:29.do not think they are fruitcakes. I do not like that expression. I do
:51:29. > :51:38.not like the expression sounds which Kenneth Clarke used. This is quite
:51:38. > :51:42.unacceptable. Taking to the airwaves, this UKIP candidate for
:51:42. > :51:46.the next general election is getting the message out, spreading the good
:51:46. > :51:50.news on a community radio station set up in a church. But there is
:51:50. > :51:56.little sign of peace and goodwill. The remarks of the MP offered little
:51:56. > :52:01.harmony, more discord. Bill Cash has been saying things like that for
:52:01. > :52:07.years. His time has gone. People are trusting UKIP now to be the people
:52:07. > :52:12.to force the hand of the establishment. We have the force
:52:12. > :52:18.behind us now of the people. cannot deny that Labour gained seats
:52:18. > :52:28.because people voting for use split it the Tory vote. We got the votes
:52:28. > :52:29.
:52:29. > :52:37.of everyone. We always do. The big test for UKIP now, can the party
:52:37. > :52:41.maintain momentum in the Midlands? Of course, David, we are
:52:41. > :52:46.concentrating as so often we do on the trials and tribulations between
:52:46. > :52:50.UKIP and the Conservatives, but as we were hearing, they are a threat
:52:50. > :52:56.to your party as well. Looking to the north of your county, they are
:52:56. > :53:06.the main rivals to Labour there. Ella macro we have got to take them
:53:06. > :53:08.
:53:08. > :53:13.seriously. Is it not of report that you are not getting it across, the
:53:13. > :53:17.message? Looking at the election on Thursday, one of the main parties
:53:17. > :53:22.people would go to to protest is now part of the coalition. That makes it
:53:22. > :53:29.very difficult for the Lib Dems. People were looking for an
:53:29. > :53:33.alternative way to send a message to Rex Minster -- Westminster and to
:53:33. > :53:37.make the point about most of us are not listening to them and
:53:37. > :53:43.communicating properly. We have got to really listen to that and
:53:43. > :53:49.understand that. It strikes me that Nigel Farage manages to communicate.
:53:49. > :53:53.Policies tend to fall apart under deepest scrutiny but he communicates
:53:53. > :53:57.them very well. They will come under more heat now from all of the main
:53:57. > :54:02.parties as we start to expose what the policy platform is. I think you
:54:02. > :54:06.will find it is pretty thin. But I do think they can be a threat. They
:54:06. > :54:12.probably draw more disaffected conservative voters but they also
:54:12. > :54:17.take Labour voters as well and I do not underestimate them. I am sure
:54:17. > :54:21.there are a lot of Conservative MPs in the Midlands who would echo what
:54:21. > :54:27.will Cash was saying this morning full stop UKIP is a party, be they
:54:27. > :54:32.fruitcakes or clowns, you may find yourself having to talk to them.
:54:32. > :54:37.Gloucs, possibly headed by the Conservatives, you may need to talk
:54:37. > :54:41.to UKIP macro there as elsewhere. do not think it is a good idea for
:54:41. > :54:46.politicians to approach their colleagues in a hostile way. We
:54:46. > :54:50.should let what the electorate voted for. Let me pick up on one thing. If
:54:50. > :54:55.it is true UKIP take more from the Conservatives, and it is clearly
:54:55. > :54:58.true that the Lib Dems are now a party of government and therefore
:54:58. > :55:03.you cannot vote for them if you do not like what the government is
:55:03. > :55:08.doing, Labour should be doing better, not worse. I think the
:55:08. > :55:11.problem with an early referendum on EU membership seems to me to be
:55:11. > :55:14.twofold. David and I have both served in the government whips
:55:14. > :55:20.office. We know you cannot get things through Parliament unless a
:55:20. > :55:23.majority of MPs support them. The Labour Party do not support an in
:55:24. > :55:30.out referendum. The Liberals certainly do not. The second reason
:55:30. > :55:35.it is the wrong thing to do now it seems to me and that a knee-jerk
:55:35. > :55:38.response would be the wrong one is that Europe is in a huge state of
:55:38. > :55:41.flux. We have got to wait and see what kind of Europe it is we are
:55:41. > :55:44.being asked to consider membership of. We will offer a referendum in
:55:44. > :55:50.the next parliament if we win the election. Mitt, help us make sense
:55:50. > :55:55.of this. We are talking about local elections. And yet... I do not know
:55:55. > :56:03.to what extent this is about UKIP and Europe or is it about more bread
:56:03. > :56:08.and butter issues that they seem to have a general position on? Most
:56:08. > :56:12.people vote on national issues. UKIP have tapped national sentiment. But
:56:12. > :56:18.the politicians from the mainstream parties are misinterpreting this.
:56:18. > :56:21.There is a lot of data about who supports UKIP. They are not obsessed
:56:21. > :56:26.as UKIP members are with Europe. They are concerned about
:56:26. > :56:31.immigration, but they are also concerned about the economy. When
:56:31. > :56:38.Labour were in power, the majority of UKIP voters were protesting
:56:38. > :56:47.against former Labour voters. Now half of them are former conservative
:56:47. > :56:50.voters. On the referendum point, I think what we need is the Prime
:56:50. > :56:54.Minister to clearly indicate what exact powers he would want to bring
:56:54. > :56:57.back in terms of if there is going to be a referendum will stop I think
:56:57. > :57:04.we need more clarity from the Prime Minister about what he is
:57:04. > :57:10.renegotiating. One thought that does occur. Ed Miliband says Britain is
:57:11. > :57:14.moving to the left. Surely one of the lessons of the past few days is
:57:14. > :57:18.that the right of centre vote, if you put the Conservatives and UKIP
:57:18. > :57:24.together, that is the vote that is growing. I hope this is where we are
:57:24. > :57:27.in the Labour Party, the centre. I want to draw support from moderate
:57:27. > :57:36.Labour voters, moderate support in the centre. I think that is where we
:57:36. > :57:44.should be. They are not moving to Labour and seeing a potential Prime
:57:44. > :57:51.Minister in Ed Miliband. Final word. Is this a permanent change in
:57:51. > :57:56.the battlefield? We talked about 80 electoral area. Who knows. One thing
:57:56. > :58:00.is certain, UKIP will do very well in the European elections.
:58:00. > :58:04.Conservatives have to be very careful not to keep chasing the
:58:04. > :58:12.traditional UKIP voter because the country is moving to a more tolerant
:58:12. > :58:16.society, it is not a good move. Thank you very much. A regular
:58:16. > :58:22.round-up now of the political week in the Midlands. Here is pro-gun
:58:22. > :58:29.macro's presenter Joanne Malin. -- here is Midlands Today presenter.
:58:29. > :58:33.A new start for new Street. A multi-million pound revamp. The
:58:33. > :58:37.station was put to the test by commuters for the first time. 600
:58:37. > :58:42.people attended a public meeting to question the team sent in to run
:58:42. > :58:43.Stafford and Cannock hospitals. The hospital trust is no longer
:58:43. > :58:48.clinically or financially sustainable.
:58:48. > :58:53.The Worcestershire -based boatbuilder Sealine has sunk into
:58:53. > :58:58.administration. 300 jobs are at risk. 200 jobs are to go at
:58:58. > :59:03.Herefordshire Council. It is part of proposals to save �9 million. It is
:59:03. > :59:08.bad news for the 1500 strong workforce. We are saying we need to
:59:08. > :59:15.reduce it by somewhere in the order of a quarter. We would need to begin
:59:15. > :59:18.that now and we need to do that over the next two years. And 400 jobs
:59:18. > :59:28.will go at the University Hospital in Stoke-on-Trent as bosses plug a
:59:28. > :59:30.
:59:30. > :59:33.�31 million deficit. All of those job losses is no great
:59:33. > :59:37.distinction between public and private sector. Jeremy, is this how
:59:37. > :59:43.you are going about balancing the economy? It seems to be affecting
:59:43. > :59:47.both sides together. There is re-balancing going on. There have
:59:47. > :59:52.been a million more private-sector jobs since we started in government.
:59:52. > :59:55.But the job losses are very difficult. The problem here is that
:59:55. > :59:58.25% of all government spending is local government spending so if we
:59:58. > :00:03.are going to address the very serious economic problems we have
:00:03. > :00:07.got, a very large debt, we are going to have to do that with a
:00:07. > :00:14.contribution from local government. One of Labour's answers to this busy
:00:14. > :00:19.jobs guarantee. How can you answer suspicions about where exactly the
:00:19. > :00:24.jobs will come from? Jobs for long-term unemployed, two years.
:00:24. > :00:30.Young unemployed, one year. How can you create jobs out of thin air?
:00:30. > :00:35.do not think you can divide the economy up into public and private.
:00:35. > :00:39.There is a bleed across in terms of the number of jobs created in the
:00:39. > :00:43.private sector through investment in public infrastructure projects. I
:00:43. > :00:52.think the government has got its economics liturgy wrong. We need a
:00:52. > :00:58.significant boost to get the economy moving. They are failing. He is
:00:58. > :01:00.talking about more borrowing and that increases the problem.
:01:00. > :01:08.thanks to Jeremy Wright and David Wright. Next week, the Queens
:01:08. > :01:14.speech. What is in it for us here, I wonder? I will be joined next Sunday