:01:42. > :01:52.In the Midlands, the gun licensing system. It is costing West Mercia
:01:52. > :01:52.
:01:52. > :37:34.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2142 seconds
:37:34. > :37:37.Hello once again from the Midlands. I'm Patrick Burns and with us here
:37:37. > :37:39.today, two MPs who have both worked in France in another life before
:37:39. > :37:41.their Westminster incarnations. Christopher Pincher is the
:37:41. > :37:44.Conservative MP for Tamworth in Staffordshire, a former management
:37:44. > :37:47.consultant and he now sits on the Energy and Climate Change Select
:37:47. > :37:50.Committee. Emma Reynolds is the Labour MP for Wolverhampton North
:37:50. > :37:54.East. She has worked in PR and she is also an expert linguist, which
:37:54. > :37:56.must come in very handy her role as a Shadow Minister for Europe. A
:37:56. > :37:58.very warm welcome to you both. Bienvenue.
:37:58. > :38:04.The government's controversial same sex marriage Bill emerged from its
:38:04. > :38:07.first reading in the Lords last week bloodied but unbowed. In the
:38:07. > :38:10.end, those in favour of gay marriage carried the day despite an
:38:10. > :38:12.attempt by the former Chief Constable of the West Midlands Lord
:38:12. > :38:19.Dear to implement a so-called wrecking amendment which would have
:38:19. > :38:22.stopped the bill in its tracks. I do fear, my Lords, that the Bill,
:38:22. > :38:24.should it become law could well create such opposition to
:38:24. > :38:27.homosexuals in general that the climate of tolerance and acceptance
:38:27. > :38:30.in this country that we have all championed and supported and seen
:38:30. > :38:40.flourish over the Year has could well be set back decades, certainly
:38:40. > :38:42.
:38:42. > :38:48.Lord Dear, still better known, I think, as Geoffrey Dear. In the
:38:48. > :38:52.event, Peers voted 390 in favour of the bill with 148 against. So it
:38:52. > :38:55.will now have a second reading in the Lords. Chris Pincher, you voted
:38:55. > :39:04.for this measure on second reading and abstained on the third reading.
:39:04. > :39:08.Did you change your mind or something? What happened there?
:39:08. > :39:10.I voted for the proposal at second reading which is when we discussed
:39:10. > :39:14.the general principles of the proposal. It is a very
:39:14. > :39:17.controversial proposal, I talked to a lot of people about it and I came
:39:17. > :39:21.to the conclusion that the right thing to do, the fair and equal
:39:21. > :39:24.thing to do was to vote for the bill at second reading. But I had a
:39:24. > :39:28.few concerns about the detailed mechanics about the Bill and so, at
:39:28. > :39:30.report stage, when we came to vote on on those mechanics, I voted on a
:39:30. > :39:33.number of amendments which would give more rights and more
:39:33. > :39:37.protection to faith groups, and also to extend civil partnerships
:39:37. > :39:41.to same-sex couples, because I think that is fair and equitable. I
:39:41. > :39:46.was unlucky on all those amendments, they didn't get through and so I
:39:46. > :39:48.didn't vote for the bill at third reading. Do you have some sympathy
:39:48. > :39:51.for those Tory supporters, traditional supporters around the
:39:51. > :39:55.country, who see this as a kind of touchstone issue which just shows
:39:55. > :40:00.that the Notting Hill set at the top of the party simply are out of
:40:00. > :40:03.touch with places like Tamworth? there is a Notting Hill set, it is
:40:03. > :40:06.in every party. It is in the Labour Party, it is in the Liberal-
:40:06. > :40:09.Democrats, possibly the Conservative Party. I think it was
:40:09. > :40:15.a very controversial measure. People are very concerned about
:40:15. > :40:18.what the implications of it might be. I hope that the government will
:40:18. > :40:20.look very closely at what the outcome of the bill will be, will
:40:20. > :40:23.look at extending civil partnerships and that they will
:40:23. > :40:27.reassure traditional faith groups that this bill is not going to
:40:27. > :40:32.affect them. Since we are talking about languages, I suppose the
:40:32. > :40:42.phrase for you is schadenfreude in the Tories' discomfort? But there
:40:42. > :40:43.
:40:43. > :40:46.are a few principled objectors on your side as well?
:40:46. > :40:49.The majority of Labour MPs like myself voted for this and the
:40:49. > :40:51.reason that we have this legislation or will have this
:40:51. > :40:55.legislation will be down to a centre-left majority in parliament,
:40:55. > :40:58.Labour, Liberal Democrats and Conservative MPs. I passionately
:40:58. > :41:01.believe that a couple, whether they are a straight couple or a
:41:01. > :41:04.homosexual couple should be able to commit themselves in marriage and
:41:04. > :41:14.should have equality before the law regardless of their sexuality. I do
:41:14. > :41:20.
:41:20. > :41:30.not think the state should be standing in the way of that. Why is
:41:30. > :41:31.
:41:31. > :41:41.the state preventing people from committing to each other?
:41:41. > :41:41.
:41:41. > :41:44.Thank you. Coming up. Licensed to bill. Police forces are effectively
:41:44. > :41:47.losing millions of pounds because the money they can charge for a gun
:41:47. > :41:57.licence does not cover their costs. Another policy backfiring perhaps.
:41:57. > :41:59.
:41:59. > :42:02.More on this later. But now here is a question for you.
:42:02. > :42:04.Could Birmingham airport become one of Europe's most important global
:42:04. > :42:14.gateways? UK Central. Tomorrow its managers will unveil a plan to
:42:14. > :42:15.
:42:15. > :42:17.handle four times as many passengers as they do now. It comes
:42:17. > :42:20.in their submission to the commission currently examining UK
:42:20. > :42:27.airport strategy. I can exclusively reveal that senior local MPs and
:42:27. > :42:30.business leaders do not think the airport's vision goes far enough.
:42:30. > :42:33.An engine of growth or does an airport merely meet existing
:42:33. > :42:37.economic conditions? Managers here propose a new terminal
:42:37. > :42:40.incorporating the proposed high- speed rail interchange. Work is
:42:40. > :42:45.already well advanced on the runway extension to allow non-stop flights
:42:45. > :42:48.to the emerging economies of the Pacific Rim and Latin America. A
:42:48. > :42:50.report just published by West Midlands economic Forum reinforces
:42:50. > :42:56.their conviction that global links are vital for the region's economic
:42:56. > :43:06.future. The West Midlands economic all party group of MPs think the
:43:06. > :43:08.same. For every million passengers, you have a thousand jobs. If we
:43:08. > :43:11.have a capacity at Birmingham airport of 60 million passengers,
:43:11. > :43:13.that is 60,000 jobs. Immediately, you have got a huge number of
:43:13. > :43:16.employment opportunities. understand a largely brownfield
:43:16. > :43:26.site, currently a refuse tip, could become the location of a second
:43:26. > :43:27.
:43:27. > :43:30.runway. UK Central as it is dubbed by the local enterprise patnership
:43:30. > :43:38.who believe an integrated air and high-speed rail interchange could
:43:38. > :43:40.become the major British gateway. But the Green Party who captured
:43:40. > :43:45.seats from the Conservatives in last month's council elections in
:43:45. > :43:48.Warwickshire dislikes airport expansion ns even more than HS2.
:43:48. > :43:52.These macho plans have been drawn up by economic dinosaurs. Most
:43:52. > :43:59.people will be getting off a fast train to London and not doing
:43:59. > :44:01.business here in the West Midlands which is what we want. The Davis
:44:01. > :44:11.Commission is due to publish intermim recommendations narrowing
:44:11. > :44:14.
:44:14. > :44:18.down airport policy options before Final recommendations are not
:44:18. > :44:21.expected to until June 2015, just a month after the planned date of the
:44:21. > :44:23.next general election. Funny that. Also with us is one of those
:44:23. > :44:27.economic dinosaurs, John Morris, Director of Public Affairs for
:44:27. > :44:30.Birmingham airport. I am puzzled where all these millions of extra
:44:30. > :44:40.passengers are going to come from. You cannot fill the capacity you
:44:40. > :44:44.
:44:44. > :44:46.have at the moment. We do about 9 million passengers a year. We could
:44:46. > :44:50.quadruple the number of passengers that we put through our existing
:44:50. > :44:54.runway. But when we look towards the distant future, it is clear
:44:54. > :44:57.that passenger numbers are growing. We have got huge emergent middle
:44:57. > :45:03.classes in India and Asia and they are going to want to travel and
:45:03. > :45:07.invest. If they come to Birmingham and the Midlands, they will invest
:45:07. > :45:09.here. But people are suspicious of that
:45:09. > :45:15.kind of prediction because forecasts have proved unreliable in
:45:15. > :45:23.the past. Tomorrow, we are going to be making
:45:23. > :45:27.announcements regarding the Davis Aviation Commission. Sir Howard
:45:27. > :45:30.Davis challenged us as airports to look out to look 20 or 30 years'
:45:30. > :45:33.time to see what the shape of radiation might be. Tomorrow, we
:45:33. > :45:39.are going to start to unveil part of our thinking and it is just a
:45:39. > :45:43.vision, it is not macho planning or posturing. There are no plans as
:45:43. > :45:48.yet. The political leaders and some
:45:48. > :45:51.business leaders feel you are not going far enough. You guys often
:45:51. > :46:00.have a reputation for steam rolling change through, but they're saying
:46:00. > :46:03.you should go further. I think the world has moved on. The only way
:46:03. > :46:08.you are ever going to justify the existence of an airport is if it
:46:08. > :46:10.has an economic benefit. This Friday, the West Midlands Economic
:46:10. > :46:20.Forum produced a very interesting report showing very clearly the
:46:20. > :46:26.impact that aviation has on airports. We need to make sure
:46:26. > :46:33.there is an economic case rather than building for its own sake.
:46:33. > :46:38.Your proposal is dependant on HS2. That is a fair comment. But we do
:46:38. > :46:45.have some of the best transport links in the United Kingdom anyway.
:46:45. > :46:50.That is the point for you. You have opposed high-speed rail. If you
:46:50. > :46:54.oppose that, you also oppose this development of the airport. Not at
:46:54. > :46:56.all. The expansion of Birmingham airport will bring great benefit to
:46:56. > :47:04.the Midlands and the country regardless of whether HS2 is built
:47:04. > :47:07.or not. I was in China last year and I saw the rocket fuel growth in
:47:07. > :47:10.the economy and if we're going to compete with other hub airports in
:47:10. > :47:13.Europe like Paris and Madrid, we have got to build a regional
:47:13. > :47:15.gateway of the magnitude that John is talking about to create
:47:15. > :47:25.potentially hundreds of thousands of jobs in our community,
:47:25. > :47:28.
:47:28. > :47:30.regardless of whether or not we have a high-speed rail link.
:47:30. > :47:33.As a European specialist, Amsterdam, Paris, Frankfurt, major European
:47:33. > :47:43.gateways, very well connected to Birmingham airport, why on earth do
:47:43. > :47:48.
:47:48. > :47:51.we need to invest so much in this? And who pays for this?
:47:51. > :48:00.I think this is a great economic case for the expansion of
:48:01. > :48:04.Birmingham airport. Birmingham is a global city. I think the links into
:48:04. > :48:06.Birmingham mean that Birmingham is well placed in the UK in terms of
:48:07. > :48:08.the transport links that John has been talking about, but also
:48:09. > :48:11.Birmingham attracts foreign investment and will continue to
:48:11. > :48:17.attract foreign investment from India and the other emerging
:48:17. > :48:20.markets. There is a real economic opportunity here that we need to
:48:20. > :48:29.grasp. This country is a very centralised
:48:29. > :48:36.country politically. You are also arguing for a multi-hub system with
:48:36. > :48:43.Birmingham one of three major hubs. Surely the reality is we are
:48:43. > :48:47.politically centralised. I think the point is that you
:48:47. > :48:50.cannot have a one-size-fits-all solution. Anyone who thinks that
:48:50. > :48:52.Heathrow is the solution is really looking at a 21st century problem
:48:52. > :49:02.because it was a 20th-century construction which didn't really
:49:02. > :49:02.
:49:02. > :49:06.work. It started off with six runways, it has only got two
:49:06. > :49:08.runways now and we need to realise that we have to connect our
:49:08. > :49:15.emergening markets to where we manufacture and to other sectors in
:49:15. > :49:19.our economy. Is it going to happen do you think?
:49:19. > :49:23.I hope it does and I hope it happens quickly. I hope that the
:49:23. > :49:30.government will stop dragging their feet on this. The report comes a
:49:30. > :49:33.month after the election because the coalition cannot agree. We need
:49:33. > :49:35.increased capacity in the UK. And there is a big economic and
:49:35. > :49:37.geographical case for that increased capacity being in
:49:37. > :49:44.Birmingham. Do you think that this actually can
:49:44. > :49:51.happen? When you see our announcement tomorrow, all will be
:49:51. > :49:54.revealed. The Police and Crime Commissioner
:49:54. > :49:58.in West Mercia says firearms licences are costing his force more
:49:58. > :50:01.than �300,000 a year. Figures obtained by this programme show
:50:01. > :50:06.that the fee set by the government for the service covers less than
:50:06. > :50:16.half of the administration costs. A campaign is under way to get the
:50:16. > :50:21.
:50:21. > :50:26.I started shooting at eight years old. My family got me into it. I
:50:26. > :50:29.was brought up to think of it as a way of life. I do not think I will
:50:29. > :50:39.ever stop doing it. I like being outside working with my dog, just
:50:39. > :50:49.out and about and enjoying like David Brown is one of the 33,000
:50:49. > :50:49.
:50:49. > :50:53.fire arm and shout on licence holders across West Mercia. --
:50:53. > :50:56.firearm and shotgun. That licence cost �50 and lasts five years. But
:50:56. > :51:00.it is not just a matter of filling in forms. Background checks have to
:51:00. > :51:03.be done. A licensing officer will visit the applicant to ensure they
:51:03. > :51:06.are of sound mind and that they have proper secure storage for
:51:06. > :51:09.weapons like these. It is this process which is proving costly.
:51:09. > :51:16.Last year, West Mercia firearms unit cost over �600,000 a year to
:51:16. > :51:22.run. But the force only recouped less than half of that sum in fees,
:51:22. > :51:27.meaning it lost more than �300,000 of taxpayers' money. It is cash the
:51:27. > :51:34.force can ill afford to lose. We are being told that we have got
:51:34. > :51:40.to make cuts. We have reduced the number of staff we have got, and
:51:40. > :51:43.other services. I only hope that the government will quickly put the
:51:43. > :51:46.matter right. With the cost of processing
:51:46. > :51:54.licences burning a hole in police forces' pockets, it is now gun
:51:55. > :52:04.users that are in the firing line. The review of licence fees is
:52:05. > :52:07.
:52:07. > :52:10.overdue. It hasn't been reviewed since 2001. I would like to
:52:10. > :52:13.increase the fees so that we can look after public safety and
:52:13. > :52:15.provide an excellent service to the public at a cost benefit price to
:52:15. > :52:19.the public. Those representing licence holders
:52:19. > :52:27.say they want more for their money. It has become a bureaucratic
:52:27. > :52:30.nightmare for the police and the shooter. We will support the police
:52:30. > :52:33.in their efforts to improve and remove that bureaucracy, but we do
:52:34. > :52:37.not want to be forced to pay a large sum for a promised future
:52:37. > :52:43.improvement. Surely if you get a better service,
:52:44. > :52:48.you will have to pay for it? There can be efficiencies without
:52:48. > :52:58.having that extra money. A new electronic system for
:52:58. > :52:59.
:52:59. > :53:02.processing licences is being piloted later this year. The
:53:02. > :53:05.government is considering the proposals. Until a decision is made,
:53:05. > :53:09.taxpayers will pay the price. As we heard, we are being pushed
:53:09. > :53:11.towards online solutions, online applications. But doesn't that
:53:11. > :53:14.weaken the commitment to home visits, to background checks,
:53:14. > :53:18.security checks, the sorts of things that really are particularly
:53:18. > :53:21.important when firearms are involved?
:53:21. > :53:31.We've seen what's happened in the United States Regulation in this
:53:31. > :53:36.
:53:36. > :53:39.area. -- sufficient regulation. I think these gun licences need to be
:53:39. > :53:44.self financing. We have got to have the proper background checks, that
:53:45. > :53:48.costs money. Who should pay for it? Not the taxpayers. Those people who
:53:48. > :53:50.want the licences in the first place. What is your answer? I hope
:53:50. > :53:52.that the commissioner in West Mercia will chat with the
:53:52. > :53:56.Conservative police and crime commissioner in Staffordshire who
:53:56. > :54:06.has done great work in reducing the cost of his force and he has
:54:06. > :54:07.
:54:07. > :54:10.increased the number of posts. You can reduce costs and employ people.
:54:10. > :54:13.That is the point that the shooters are saying there, that the police
:54:13. > :54:18.can find efficiencies themselves. Our police forces in West Midlands
:54:18. > :54:21.were going to lose 1,000 police officers. If police forces across
:54:21. > :54:26.the country are going to be put under even more pressure, then
:54:26. > :54:35.these gun licences need to become self financing. The licence fee is
:54:36. > :54:39.going to have to increase. If you are saying that by increasing the
:54:39. > :54:49.licence fee, you can suddenly employ more police officers...
:54:49. > :54:55.
:54:55. > :55:03.saying that the government... Staffordshire has increased
:55:03. > :55:08.efficiencies and crime has fallen. It can be done. It is interesting
:55:08. > :55:13.that the onus is on the police to argue if they fear it is the case
:55:13. > :55:17.that someone is inappropriate, or rather than the other way around.
:55:17. > :55:23.Someone who is applying has to prove themselves appropriate. It is
:55:23. > :55:33.a curious way of doing it. People are innocent until they are proven
:55:33. > :55:39.guilty. It is like a right to bear arms. Similar to the American
:55:39. > :55:43.experience? We have very clear good of regulations. The issue here is
:55:43. > :55:53.weather the police are able to invest first year or two service
:55:53. > :55:56.
:55:56. > :56:03.those regulations quickly. -- in West Mercia. We have to be sure
:56:03. > :56:11.that unforeseen consequences do not flow from what are potentially good
:56:11. > :56:17.ideas. Is it not rather old- fashioned are to have individual
:56:17. > :56:24.police forces servicing licences? The licence fee is decided by
:56:24. > :56:34.central government. There will be police forces who are hit harder
:56:34. > :56:34.
:56:34. > :56:38.because of this. It is an issue for a national government. National
:56:38. > :56:45.government sets at the cost of gun licences. I am sure that the
:56:45. > :56:55.Chancellor will look at it every things there is an issue.
:56:55. > :56:59.
:56:59. > :57:07.Railways for children. The government has pledged a �5 million
:57:07. > :57:14.towards a new station in Kenilworth. There are also plans to link
:57:14. > :57:18.Coventry to HS2. Some centres could be sold off in Birmingham to reduce
:57:18. > :57:28.council spending. Many of our leisure centres and swimming pools
:57:28. > :57:30.
:57:30. > :57:34.are getting to a point in time where they need major investment.
:57:34. > :57:44.Lawyers protested against proposed changes to the criminal legal aid
:57:44. > :57:47.system. Design firms came together to show off their wares. Prince
:57:47. > :57:57.Charles came to was to Show to present a new colours up to all
:57:57. > :58:03.
:58:03. > :58:09.four battalions of the Mercian The merciless incorporate the
:58:09. > :58:19.former Staffordshire Regiment and they are threatened with December
:58:19. > :58:23.
:58:23. > :58:30.been disbanded. -- the Mercians. am pleased that the name has been
:58:31. > :58:39.retained. As a result of the changes, all three battalions will
:58:39. > :58:45.effectively be merged. It is likely that the resources end up Third
:58:45. > :58:50.Battalion will be redeployed around the rest of the regiment. You are
:58:50. > :58:57.campaigning for a Territorial Army regiment to be spared any threat of
:58:57. > :59:04.being disbanded? I think it is very important that we have these
:59:04. > :59:11.existing regiments that have a close cultural identity with their
:59:11. > :59:20.location. I think it would be a great shame if they were not
:59:20. > :59:28.retained. It is a little bit like hospitals. There is a deep
:59:28. > :59:37.community identification, but the country is changing. The ambition
:59:37. > :59:42.of the government is to double the numbers in the Territorial Army.
:59:42. > :59:47.think the local community is still rated very closely to its local
:59:47. > :59:54.armed services. I met three people this morning who asked if I had
:59:54. > :00:00.gone to the ceremony yesterday, and wasn't it great?
:00:00. > :00:04.Thank you very much. On Wednesday, the latest
:00:04. > :00:08.unemployment figures will be published. There will be full