:01:35. > :01:39.And in the Midlands: The question that will decide the destiny of our
:01:39. > :01:49.generation and many more. What did lenders be better in or out of the
:01:49. > :01:49.
:01:49. > :39:16.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2247 seconds
:39:16. > :39:21.I'm Patrick Burns. Our guests today both had highly successful careers
:39:21. > :39:23.before entering Parliament three Stourbridge, recently promoted to
:39:23. > :39:26.the Prime Minister's inner circle, the Downing Street Policy Board.
:39:26. > :39:28.Jack Dromey was Deputy General Secretary of the Transport and
:39:28. > :39:30.General Workers Union, and its successor union Unite, before
:39:30. > :39:32.becoming Labour MP for Birmingham Erdington and Shadow Housing
:39:32. > :39:34.Minister. And the redefinition of Labour's
:39:34. > :39:37.relationship with their union paymasters was enshrined in Ed
:39:37. > :39:40.Miliband's so-called Clause Four Moment last week, as he battled to
:39:40. > :39:42.neutralise the Falkirk fall-out by calling for union members to be able
:39:42. > :39:44.to opt-out of the automatic political levy. Nearer home,
:39:44. > :39:47.suggestions of union interference in candidate selection were dismissed
:39:47. > :39:49.by one newly-adopted prospective candidate, who's herself a member of
:39:49. > :39:53.Unite. She told our reporter Ben Godfrey that the unions strengthen
:39:53. > :39:57.Labour's democratic credentials. In every constituency, there are
:39:57. > :40:02.around 10,000 people who are members of trade unions. We want those
:40:02. > :40:05.members to have a real say in what the Labour Party does and have the
:40:05. > :40:09.opportunity to have their voice heard. At the moment we do not know
:40:09. > :40:14.where this people are and we cannot get in touch with them. This is our
:40:14. > :40:19.chance to get in touch with ordinary people who support us.
:40:19. > :40:25.interesting point. Surely, when you have a situation where one third of
:40:25. > :40:31.all the Labour candidates so far selected in the West Midlands are
:40:31. > :40:35.backed by Unite, that cannot help, can it? IM proud of roots. There is
:40:36. > :40:43.a time now where too many people are turning off of politics. The idea
:40:43. > :40:48.that we should cut ourselves off from millions of people is wrong.
:40:48. > :40:52.Not cutting yourself off, just the influence. It is absolutely right
:40:52. > :40:56.that the voice of working people should be heard. Ed Miliband was
:40:56. > :41:01.right that what happened in Falkirk was wrong, and he has acted in a way
:41:02. > :41:06.to say, we are not going to have it. Turning to the future, I think she
:41:06. > :41:11.was spot on. I want to see ordinary trade unions involved at grassroots
:41:11. > :41:18.level. I support Ed Miliband's view, which is that the time has come to
:41:18. > :41:24.take big money out of politics. On the other hand, we want to see a cap
:41:24. > :41:28.on donations. The Conservatives had they met -- have said no to that,
:41:28. > :41:38.and that is because they have God �25 million from hedge fund
:41:38. > :41:43.millionaires. JCB are clearly a major donor to the Tory Party.
:41:43. > :41:46.Donations that come from the world of business and individuals into the
:41:46. > :41:50.Conservative Party do not buy the influence that trade unions by when
:41:50. > :41:56.they support the Labour Party. There is no doubt, as we have seen in
:41:56. > :42:00.Falkirk, and not just of there, on a national level, the national
:42:00. > :42:06.leadership of the Labour Party was determined by the trade unions. In
:42:06. > :42:11.the conservative member, it is one member, one vote. -- Conservative
:42:11. > :42:18.Party. When push comes to shove, you are the party of privilege. We are
:42:18. > :42:22.the party of the people. Not just in the world of work, but in local
:42:22. > :42:27.communities. The Conservative Party has stood up for those who are rich
:42:27. > :42:30.and powerful. I totally disagree with that. The Conservative Party is
:42:30. > :42:34.on the side of working people who want to get on in the world. The
:42:34. > :42:44.children of those working people who want to do well at school and get on
:42:44. > :42:45.
:42:45. > :42:48.well in the world. Thank you. Coming up: Be there a referendum or no
:42:48. > :42:51.referendum, the war of words is certainly hotting up. Europe: In or
:42:51. > :42:56.out? What would be best for business in the Midlands? We'll have the
:42:56. > :43:03.arguments for and against a little later.
:43:03. > :43:07.It's one of the most depressing aspects of the economic downturn.
:43:07. > :43:10.Unemployment among young people remains stubbornly high. Around one
:43:10. > :43:18.in five 16 to 24-year-olds are out of work in our part of the country.
:43:18. > :43:20.But last week did at least bring some more positive indications. One
:43:20. > :43:23.of our new University Technical Colleges in Walsall, had a visit
:43:23. > :43:26.from the Duke of York, launching an awards scheme for future engineers
:43:26. > :43:28.and scientists. And there was welcome news as well about job
:43:28. > :43:32.opportunities in the Midlands for graduates.
:43:32. > :43:34.Walsall's University Technical College was set up two years ago.
:43:34. > :43:38.The colleges were the idea of former Conservative Education Secretary
:43:38. > :43:40.Kenneth Baker. Their aim, to equip young people with the sort of
:43:40. > :43:45.technical skills employers in the engineering and manufacturing
:43:45. > :43:52.sectors need. All these youngsters are going to get a job as a
:43:52. > :43:56.technician, a qualified technician. There are too many lawyers and
:43:56. > :44:01.accountants at the moment. These people are going into jobs that will
:44:01. > :44:03.make real money for our country. Prince Andrew was also on hand to
:44:03. > :44:07.launch an awards scheme in his name to recognise outstanding achievement
:44:07. > :44:12.in vocational education. He hopes in time the Duke of York Award will be
:44:12. > :44:14.seen a hallmark of a quality. very important that young people
:44:14. > :44:18.should be recognised for a qualification that is second to
:44:18. > :44:22.none. Elsewhere the Association of Graduate Recruiters released its
:44:22. > :44:25.annual survey. It shows the number of graduate vacancies in the West
:44:25. > :44:31.Midlands rose over the last year from 6% to 8%. Black Country parcel
:44:32. > :44:35.delivery firm DPD is already offering work. We have taken on a
:44:35. > :44:39.lot of new graduates over the last couple of years. We are getting a
:44:39. > :44:49.fantastic result from them and they are enjoying what they do. We need
:44:49. > :44:52.
:44:52. > :44:54.new graduates. But that picture isn't repeated everywhere. That same
:44:54. > :44:58.survey shows the number of graduate vacanies is actually falling
:44:58. > :45:06.nationally underlining the patchy nature of economic recovery.
:45:06. > :45:11.An idea from the 80s. I must say, 14 seems to be a very early age for
:45:11. > :45:19.those that young people to be having to make a life defining choices
:45:19. > :45:24.about technology vocational courses. Those young people also gain
:45:24. > :45:34.education in English, math and science, so it is not sacrificing
:45:34. > :45:37.
:45:37. > :45:41.academic route entirely. It is a sad central educational base, whilst
:45:41. > :45:43.continuing with the core subjects. There is still the challenge of
:45:43. > :45:46.getting the skills through so that our young people can actually
:45:46. > :45:51.compete for those opportunities and also retain the talent, making sure
:45:51. > :45:55.we do not just suck in people from elsewhere. It is great news that we
:45:55. > :46:01.have got more graduate jobs in the Midlands. It is even better news
:46:01. > :46:03.that we have got more and more skilled youngsters going in for
:46:03. > :46:07.apprenticeships, vocational learning, because it is not all
:46:07. > :46:10.about university. That is not the only routes to a successful career.
:46:10. > :46:16.We had half a million people start to a successful career. We had half
:46:16. > :46:21.a million people started apprenticeships last year. We want
:46:21. > :46:24.to repeat that this year and next, and really back vocational learning
:46:24. > :46:28.as well as higher education. have got to welcome that means, that
:46:28. > :46:33.graduate opportunities are now running ahead of the general trend
:46:33. > :46:42.across the country. Any good news in bleak times is to be welcomed.
:46:42. > :46:46.Another example, a car plant in my constituency, I secured the future
:46:46. > :46:50.of the factory that was due to close. Now a Jaguar Land Rover is a
:46:50. > :46:55.success story, and it is wonderful to see that they are recruiting both
:46:55. > :47:01.graduates and people with technical skills. Indeed, Jaguar Land Rover
:47:01. > :47:06.were centre stage of the jobs fair that we organised here in Birmingham
:47:06. > :47:10.last Friday. Of course what you want is good news. We work hard for good
:47:10. > :47:15.news. On the issue of vocational training, I agree with the point
:47:15. > :47:19.that you have made, which is that for too long, the emphasis has been
:47:19. > :47:28.ongoing to university. What we need to do is say to young people, there
:47:28. > :47:30.is another part. It is a good path it has real career prospects and
:47:30. > :47:35.earning prospects. I was in the Jaguar Land Rover plans two weeks
:47:35. > :47:39.ago, and I was taking around this wonderful facility, and there were
:47:39. > :47:43.12-year-olds who were going around it. Indeed, it has been said to me
:47:43. > :47:46.by companies in the supply chain, if you want to get women into
:47:46. > :47:51.engineering, you need to start involving them when they are nine
:47:51. > :47:58.and ten. From an early age, it is about saying to young people, there
:47:58. > :48:01.is another path. Thank you very much indeed. And the latest monthly
:48:01. > :48:04.unemployment figures are due out on Wednesday. So Midlands Today will
:48:04. > :48:08.have the latest on that, and your BBC local radio station will bring
:48:08. > :48:12.you the more detailed picture in your own immediate area.
:48:12. > :48:15.We're devoting the bulk of our time on this, our final programme of the
:48:15. > :48:18.present series, to the question that could dominate our politics for
:48:18. > :48:21.years to come: Would we Midlanders be better off in or out of the
:48:21. > :48:26.European Union? Admittedly, no referendum would ask us in isolation
:48:26. > :48:31.from the rest of the country. But where do our interests lie, what
:48:31. > :48:34.outcome would best suit most of us here? We invited leading figures in
:48:34. > :48:43.our business community to front it up for us, beginning with the case
:48:43. > :48:48.for getting out. I have been in the manufacturing
:48:48. > :48:55.industry for 40 years. It was here in Walsall where I first become an
:48:55. > :48:58.MP, and I went on to run this country -- this company. I am
:48:58. > :49:02.passionate about manufacturing and thrashing about the West Midlands,
:49:03. > :49:07.but we are being held back by the European Union, which sees itself as
:49:07. > :49:13.a utopia. We live in a competitive world. We are like the Titanic. We
:49:13. > :49:17.are sinking. We have been moving the deck chairs on my manufacturing
:49:17. > :49:24.life. The survivors are the ones that get off early. We need to get
:49:24. > :49:34.off now. I am not the only one that thinks so. We can -- one chairman of
:49:34. > :49:39.
:49:39. > :49:44.a company which finds jobs for 35,000 people have something to say.
:49:44. > :49:48.League-macro -- Europe sees itself in isolation. That is fine if he
:49:48. > :49:55.could trade in isolation, but it cannot. To survive, Europe has to
:49:55. > :50:05.trade with the world, and the world is not as principled as Europe is.
:50:05. > :50:05.
:50:05. > :50:10.Therefore they undercut us. So there we have it. The European Union is
:50:10. > :50:15.not fit for the 21st century. It is bureaucratic and unrepresentative
:50:15. > :50:24.and has an anti-employment legislation. The concerns about
:50:24. > :50:34.trade are unfounded. It is not -- if they do, that is not a Europe I want
:50:34. > :50:34.
:50:34. > :50:39.to belong to anyway. I am a director at the Chamber of Commerce, and I
:50:39. > :50:44.have businesses helping them into export and trade markets. Often,
:50:44. > :50:48.Europe is the starting point. Why? Trade, that is why. Here in the West
:50:48. > :50:52.Midlands, we depend very heavily on the European Union in manufacturing
:50:52. > :50:56.and service terms, and it is not just trade. Think about our
:50:56. > :51:04.investment into the United Kingdom and into the regions as well. In
:51:04. > :51:14.fact, to leave the European Union, frankly, would be suicide. This
:51:14. > :51:18.local business, how important is the European Union into you? In even a
:51:18. > :51:21.suggestion of us coming out of -- even a suggestion of coming out of
:51:21. > :51:27.the European Union puts fear into people. How anybody could limit
:51:27. > :51:37.their cells and put -- themselves and put up restrictions in this
:51:37. > :51:37.
:51:37. > :51:41.market is beyond me. A recent survey amongst local business -- businesses
:51:41. > :51:45.has indicated that they want to stay in the European single market. They
:51:45. > :51:49.understand the benefits of being in the market. The scaremongering is
:51:49. > :51:53.causing them worry and uncertainty about the future. It is absolutely
:51:53. > :52:02.key it -- clear to me that's being part of the single market or parts
:52:02. > :52:11.of the negotiations inside is far better than being on the outside. --
:52:11. > :52:20.that being part of the single market. We are also joined here
:52:20. > :52:30.today by and in the -- MEP who was elected as part of two United
:52:30. > :52:30.
:52:30. > :52:34.Kingdom Independece Party members. Just to pick up the survey that was
:52:34. > :52:42.being referred to, 60% of local manufacturing businesses think we
:52:42. > :52:47.should stay in, and only 16% think we should withdraw -- think that
:52:47. > :52:53.withdrawal would have any positive outcomes. This is a West Midlands
:52:53. > :52:57.programme, said this is just Birmingham. It is 5 million people.
:52:57. > :53:04.West Midlands is far bigger than Birmingham. It was not scientific. I
:53:04. > :53:08.noticed that it was not scientific. If you ask of them, one of the other
:53:08. > :53:17.questions was, if we could re-Patri eight powers back, would you
:53:17. > :53:22.consider that positive? Can we re-Patri eight hours? We have heard
:53:22. > :53:28.from members of the European Union that we cannot. It is not possible.
:53:28. > :53:34.You need consent monks all 28 member states, including a referendum in
:53:34. > :53:41.Ireland, and that is not going to happen. The point has been made that
:53:41. > :53:47.access to this vast single market, and all those thousands of jobs, 60%
:53:47. > :53:56.of one person's output goes directly into the European Union. We have
:53:56. > :54:01.heard the their stories. -- we have heard the scare stories. We did not
:54:01. > :54:08.go into the euro and more money was invested. Here we are, big
:54:08. > :54:11.businesses with their scare tactics. I am on the employment social
:54:11. > :54:18.affairs community, so I have lots of dialogue with small businesses who
:54:18. > :54:24.absolute -- actually employ lots of people, and they do not want more
:54:24. > :54:30.legislation and they want to get out. That is what big -- businesses
:54:30. > :54:35.are saying. I do not know what the agenda for big business is. Let's
:54:35. > :54:41.just ask our two MPs. If she were to have her way and there were a
:54:41. > :54:49.referendum tomorrow, how would you vote in such a referendum is the
:54:49. > :54:54.mark -- referendum? I want to vote in a referendum when we have a more
:54:54. > :54:59.reformed European Union. How would you vote? We have to wait and see
:54:59. > :55:03.what the situation is like all stop that is not really answering the
:55:04. > :55:13.question. I am not going to answer a habit medical question. I will. I
:55:14. > :55:14.
:55:14. > :55:19.would vote to stay in. -- a hypothetical question. The key to
:55:19. > :55:23.the success has been inward investment. Key to inward investment
:55:23. > :55:29.is that we are in the European Union. Jonathan was absolutely
:55:29. > :55:34.right, as was the businessman who is the real voice of business, that
:55:34. > :55:37.this prolonged uncertainty is deeply damaging, and it is about time that
:55:37. > :55:45.the Conservative Party but the national interests over the party
:55:45. > :55:51.interests. My instinctive sense is that, not just in the UK, but in
:55:51. > :55:59.large members of -- numbers of EU member states, there is a growing
:55:59. > :56:06.sense of skepticism. People deserve a say. That is all we are offering.
:56:06. > :56:11.But you are not offering that. You are not offering that. It is
:56:11. > :56:16.grandstanding. What this is saying to me, and I talk to business on a
:56:16. > :56:19.weekly basis, they are saying to me that it creates uncertainty. We need
:56:20. > :56:25.a referendum. If there is going to be a referendum, we need it sooner
:56:25. > :56:29.rather than later. I am the only MEP and the countries you actually goes
:56:29. > :56:32.out and speaks to people in the towns and cities, and they are
:56:32. > :56:42.saying quite clearly that they are sick of this argument and they want
:56:42. > :56:43.
:56:43. > :56:51.a referendum. They do not trust the Conservatives or labour. -- or
:56:51. > :57:01.Labour. There are many parts of the West Midlands that are very and
:57:01. > :57:02.
:57:02. > :57:07.happy about the situation. We have heard that it is riddled with too
:57:07. > :57:13.much cost and restrictions. certain, there should be a
:57:13. > :57:18.performer. A much stronger emphasis on, egg -- for example, a growth
:57:18. > :57:23.agenda. Part of the hidden agenda of the Conservative Party is what they
:57:23. > :57:27.want to do is to roll back hard-won protections for working people in
:57:27. > :57:31.this country. For example, the working Time directive. Do we really
:57:31. > :57:39.want to go back to the days when junior hospital doctors worked 100
:57:39. > :57:44.days a week? I do not. They talk about uncertainty. They want some
:57:44. > :57:51.clarity. I think what would be good for business is a reformed EU that
:57:51. > :57:57.is beneficial to all member states. We are building alliances. I was in
:57:57. > :58:07.Germany a couple of weeks ago and there was strong support for change
:58:07. > :58:10.
:58:10. > :58:15.in the you. -- in the EU. A quick word on that. You have all the other
:58:15. > :58:21.27 member states now having to agree on any treaty change. That simply is
:58:21. > :58:27.not going to happen. Why does David Cameron think he can do it when all
:58:27. > :58:33.of the rest are saying no? There are other ways of changing the European
:58:33. > :58:39.Union. I'm sorry we have to cut this short. Thank you for being with us
:58:39. > :58:48.here today. Now our regular round-ups of the
:58:48. > :58:51.political week in the West Midlands in 60 seconds.
:58:51. > :58:58.UK Coal has gone into administration following the huge fire which closed
:58:58. > :59:01.Daw Mill colliery in Warwickshire. 350 jobless miners face losing some
:59:01. > :59:03.of their pension. Save Stafford Hospital campaigners handed in a
:59:03. > :59:13.50,000 name petition to the government. Staffordshire MPs Bill
:59:13. > :59:15.Cash and Jeremy Lefroy gave their support. It shows the street -- huge
:59:15. > :59:19.strength of feeling in the surrounding areas for the importance
:59:19. > :59:22.of the services that the hospital provides. Former BBC Countryfile
:59:22. > :59:29.presenter Miriam O'Reilly has failed to become the Labour Party candidate
:59:29. > :59:33.for Nuneaton. Vicky Fowler was selected after a hard-fought battle.
:59:33. > :59:37.Up to 300 new jobs are to be created by JCB at a new distribution depot
:59:37. > :59:39.near Newcastle-under-Lyme. The government's regional growth fund
:59:40. > :59:43.could contribute �3 million to train staff.
:59:43. > :59:45.And Jaguar Land Rover launched its latest model in the Cotswolds. It
:59:45. > :59:54.comes as delivery workers at plants in Castle Bromwich and Solihull
:59:54. > :59:57.voted to strike in a dispute over pay.
:59:57. > :00:01.And those delivery workers who play such an important part at Jaguar
:00:01. > :00:11.Land Rover are actually employed by the distribution company DHL. You
:00:11. > :00:12.
:00:12. > :00:16.must be pretty conflicted on this as a former Unite leader. Not at all.
:00:16. > :00:20.If you talk to the management of Jaguar Land Rover, they hold out
:00:20. > :00:26.their workforce and the role that is being played by Unite as having been
:00:26. > :00:29.key in trans forming the fortunes of the company. Here we have a dispute
:00:29. > :00:34.with the delivery drivers. I would urge them to settle, because the
:00:34. > :00:44.last thing that we want is a strike. Can you understand the
:00:44. > :00:48.
:00:48. > :00:52.pressure on pay restraint Mister Mark we have seen -- restraint?
:00:52. > :00:57.agree with Jack, they should reach a settlement and move on and protect
:00:57. > :01:01.all of those jobs. Are we moving into a stage where the unions are
:01:01. > :01:06.starting to flex their muscles a bit? There are suggestions of
:01:06. > :01:10.industrial action coming up. We are moving into a stage where working
:01:10. > :01:17.people want a fair deal and they are absolutely right. We must leave it
:01:17. > :01:22.there. My thanks to Margot James and Jack
:01:22. > :01:25.Dromey. Sunday Politics is taking its summer break, but the political
:01:25. > :01:29.season knows no bounds these days. The silly season seems a thing of