:00:36. > :00:45.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Ed Miliband and the
:00:45. > :00:48.rest of the Labour clan are in Brighton for their party conference
:00:48. > :00:52.this weekend. He's promised policies galore. But as a Sunday Politics
:00:52. > :00:55.poll finds a third of his own councillors don't think he's doing a
:00:55. > :00:59.good job, will that be enough to steady the Labour ship?
:00:59. > :01:02.Back in Westminster, they're partying like it's 2006, as Damian
:01:02. > :01:08.McBride's memoirs re-ignite the Blair-Brown wars. Alastair Campbell
:01:08. > :01:13.will tell us why he is sickened by the former Brown spin doctor.
:01:13. > :01:15.And speaking of political infighting, Conservative Party
:01:15. > :01:16.Chairman Grant Shapps will give his response to the rampant Tory-bashing
:01:16. > :01:28.And a big question in the Midlands, at the Lib Dem Conference
:01:28. > :01:31.And a big question in the Midlands, where is the beef?
:01:31. > :01:36.business. In London, Labour commands over the two thirds of the ethnic
:01:36. > :01:44.minority vote but now stands accused of institutional racism. Are they
:01:44. > :01:49.right? With me, the best and the brightest political panel in the
:01:49. > :01:53.business. Isabel Hardman, Janan be tweeting like demented Damians
:01:53. > :01:57.throughout the programme. First today, scrapping the bedroom tax.
:01:57. > :02:02.Universal childcare for primary school kids. More apprenticeships.
:02:02. > :02:05.Labour Conference only begins in earnest today, but the policy and
:02:05. > :02:11.spending commitments are coming according to the Labour leader's
:02:11. > :02:12.critics. He's been out and about this morning and told Andrew Marr
:02:13. > :02:23.that he knew it was going to be this morning and told Andrew Marr
:02:23. > :02:29.It is about a party that lost office three years ago. We are trying to be
:02:29. > :02:34.a one term opposition. That is tough. I believe it is a fight that
:02:34. > :02:41.we can win and I am up for that fight. The stakes are so high for
:02:41. > :02:46.young people who want a job, for people whose living standards are
:02:46. > :02:53.being squeezed. For people who think that this is not good enough for
:02:53. > :02:54.Britain. So what do key Labour Party activists - its councillors - think
:02:54. > :02:58.about the direction Mr Miliband activists - its councillors - think
:02:59. > :03:02.taking their party? Adam Fleming is in Brighton at the Party Conference
:03:02. > :03:12.with all the details of our latest exclusive Sunday Politics survey.
:03:13. > :03:20.conference set. Let us unwrap them. With the help of an opinion poll we
:03:20. > :03:24.surveyed 1350 Labour councillors across England and Wales. We wanted
:03:24. > :03:26.to find out what they think as Labour gathers for its conference.
:03:26. > :03:32.The Labour leader warmed up for Labour gathers for its conference.
:03:32. > :03:40.week by taking to his soap box in Brighton city centre. It is great
:03:40. > :03:42.week by taking to his soap box in councillors said they did not think
:03:43. > :03:48.Ed Miliband was doing a good job as leader. 30% said they thought the
:03:49. > :03:55.party would have a better chance if someone else was in charge at the
:03:55. > :04:02.next election. You will see more of Ed Miliband as we run-up to general
:04:02. > :04:11.election. He has been in the job for three years! Now it is crunch time.
:04:11. > :04:16.The other Ed, Ed Balls, was disliked by roughly one third of the party as
:04:16. > :04:23.well. Ed Balls is not a pop your man. He says things and he speaks
:04:23. > :04:32.his mind. -- not a popular man. diplomatic. Sadly Ed Balls did not
:04:32. > :04:40.seem to be that bothered about our survey. Over at a conference centre
:04:40. > :04:45.When it comes to relations with trade unions, the majority of Labour
:04:45. > :04:50.councillors thought things were absolutely fine. Just 9% thought
:04:50. > :04:57.things with the unions were a little bit too close. Tricky because Ed
:04:57. > :05:00.Miliband want to loosen the link. The shadow environment secretary
:05:00. > :05:08.arrived in Brighton ride bicycle from London to raise money for
:05:08. > :05:11.councillors what they would do if the next election results in a hung
:05:11. > :05:16.parliament, just over half said the next election results in a hung
:05:16. > :05:20.would tell the lid Dems to get on their bikes. We would never say
:05:20. > :05:23.would tell the lid Dems to get on to going into coalition. It gives us
:05:23. > :05:27.the chance to be in government and prepare some of the damage of the
:05:27. > :05:32.last three years. So are you going to start being nice about the Lib
:05:32. > :05:38.Dems? I always treat them with courtesy. And the parties admitted
:05:38. > :05:44.that perhaps they had opened the door to too many immigrants. It
:05:44. > :05:46.that perhaps they had opened the our survey Labour councillors of
:05:46. > :05:53.warming the felt that immigration We're now joined by the Shadow Chief
:05:53. > :06:03.Secretary to the Treasury, Rachel Reeves. Good morning. Let us start
:06:03. > :06:11.with Ed Miliband. Is it true that the team insisted that he be called
:06:11. > :06:17.the leader? I just call him Ed and I think the rest of the Shadow Cabinet
:06:17. > :06:26.do. Do you welcome working for a leader that says he is winning back
:06:26. > :06:34.socialism? We are a democratic important thing is that we have
:06:34. > :06:37.socialism? We are a democratic policies that will improve people 's
:06:38. > :06:42.lives and tackle the cost of living crisis facing so many families.
:06:42. > :06:49.Policies like expanding childcare, offering more apprenticeships, all
:06:49. > :06:54.policies that I think the country are calling out for after three
:06:54. > :07:01.years of a flat-lining economy and seeing prices rise faster than wages
:07:01. > :07:08.for 38 out of the 39 months but Minister. I think that is the most
:07:08. > :07:13.important thing. So it is OK now to risk their to the Labour Party again
:07:13. > :07:19.as the Socialist party? The clue is in the name, we stand up for working
:07:19. > :07:24.people. You are socialist party according to the leader. We have
:07:24. > :07:28.always been the Labour Party, that is our name and we stand up for
:07:28. > :07:33.working people, not the privileged few like this government with their
:07:33. > :07:39.tax cuts for millionaires. Those are privileged few. The Labour Party is
:07:39. > :07:49.about helping everyone in Britain, all families. Interesting that your
:07:49. > :07:52.run don't use the word socialist. In our survey one third of Labour
:07:52. > :08:01.councillors said Ed Miliband was not doing a good job as leader. If he
:08:01. > :08:02.councillors, who can he convince? Well you could say that two thirds
:08:02. > :08:08.of councillors think that he is Well you could say that two thirds
:08:08. > :08:14.right leader. But these are Labour councillors. The overall majority of
:08:14. > :08:22.Labour councillors think that he is doing a good job. What matters is
:08:22. > :08:28.the results on election day. Two thirds of councillors think that he
:08:28. > :08:32.is doing a good job. That us see what they say at the end of this
:08:32. > :08:37.week. Because I think the policies he is announcing will go down well
:08:37. > :08:38.week. Because I think the policies with Labour Party people and will
:08:38. > :08:40.also resonate with the British public. Policies like expanding
:08:40. > :08:47.apprenticeships, giving a break public. Policies like expanding
:08:48. > :08:51.struggling. I think people will public. Policies like expanding
:08:51. > :08:58.what kind of a leader that he is. Well he has a mountain to climb
:08:58. > :09:02.among all voters. Let me ask the question. Just 12% see him as a
:09:02. > :09:07.Prime Minister in waiting, just question. Just 12% see him as a
:09:07. > :09:10.see him as a natural leader. Why? If question. Just 12% see him as a
:09:10. > :09:16.you look at the overall opinion polls, we are consistently ahead in
:09:16. > :09:22.those polls. It is hard being leader demonstrate how you would be Prime
:09:22. > :09:29.Minister. By nature you are in opposition. But he has taken on
:09:29. > :09:32.Rupert Murdoch and the press barons. That is strong leadership, standing
:09:32. > :09:38.up to the vast majority. If you That is strong leadership, standing
:09:38. > :09:45.at his reforms to our relationship with the trade unions, strengthening
:09:45. > :09:51.ties with individual members. I think that he is a strong leader
:09:51. > :09:57.making the right decisions. If that is the case, why has the Labour
:09:57. > :10:00.making the right decisions. If that gone from 14 points one year ago to
:10:00. > :10:09.at most four points now. What went wrong? Well we are six or eight
:10:09. > :10:13.are six or eight points ahead in the consistently ahead. It looks as
:10:13. > :10:14.are six or eight points ahead in the we would get an overall majority if
:10:14. > :10:18.there was an election tomorrow. we would get an overall majority if
:10:18. > :10:24.we have more work to do to convince more people to vote for Labour.
:10:24. > :10:25.we have more work to do to convince this is a historic challenge, to be
:10:25. > :10:29.a one term Labour opposition. I this is a historic challenge, to be
:10:29. > :10:32.a one term Labour opposition. I believe that Ed Miliband will be the
:10:32. > :10:38.next Labour Prime Minister and will be an excellent Prime Minister. The
:10:38. > :10:41.big policy announcement today is the guaranteed childcare for all primary
:10:41. > :10:52.school children. How much will that government, they ring fenced money
:10:52. > :10:56.after-school and breakfast clubs. We think that money should be ring
:10:56. > :11:01.fenced again. How much will it cost? We are saying that schools
:11:01. > :11:05.within their budgets should be able to provide that. At the moment they
:11:05. > :11:12.can charge for children to come to provide that. At the moment they
:11:12. > :11:18.their first clubs. But this is a additional money. As it was under
:11:18. > :11:22.the last Labour government it will be about ring fencing money because
:11:23. > :11:28.we think that this is a priority. This is something that the schools
:11:28. > :11:37.should do. You cannot ring fenced money you do not have. You saying
:11:37. > :11:41.schoolchild from eight o'clock in the morning until six o'clock at
:11:41. > :11:46.night and it will not cost any more money? Well we did ring fence that
:11:46. > :11:52.money in the last Labour government. That money is gone! It has not gone.
:11:52. > :12:02.It is about priorities and we are saying that it should be a priority
:12:02. > :12:07.where is the money being spent now that you would take it from? If
:12:07. > :12:09.where is the money being spent now look at some of the things that
:12:09. > :12:11.where is the money being spent now government is doing, building free
:12:11. > :12:19.schools in areas where there are already enough. That is capital
:12:19. > :12:26.spending. We are ring fencing that priorities. We had the ring fence
:12:26. > :12:29.when we were in government. It would be reintroduced so that schools
:12:29. > :12:32.when we were in government. It would to offer that wraparound care. Of
:12:32. > :12:36.course schools can charge a small to offer that wraparound care. Of
:12:36. > :12:41.fee for their breakfast clubs and after-school DVDs. But the important
:12:41. > :12:48.thing is that provision is there for parents going out to work. Ed Balls
:12:48. > :12:55.and Ed Miliband are at the heart of the Brown project. Damien Wright was
:12:55. > :12:59.the hit man. Is it not inconceivable that they did not know what he was
:12:59. > :13:09.the hit man. Is it not inconceivable up to. It is inconceivable that
:13:09. > :13:09.the hit man. Is it not inconceivable did not -- Damian McBride. I am
:13:09. > :13:14.asking about Damian McBride. What did not -- Damian McBride. I am
:13:14. > :13:19.asking about Damian McBride. What I'm saying is that I was not there.
:13:19. > :13:25.I was not there under the last Labour government. But I do know
:13:25. > :13:37.that these things are not happening under the leadership of Ed Miliband.
:13:37. > :13:42.that backstabbing going on. There is no plotting against Ed Balls going
:13:42. > :13:51.on? I do not see that. And anyone who briefed against colleagues
:13:51. > :13:55.should be sacked, I agree with that. Nick Clegg's conference speech made
:13:55. > :14:01.it clear he was repaired to work with Ed Miliband in the event of a
:14:01. > :14:10.hung parliament. Are you excited by that prospect or is it just boring?
:14:10. > :14:17.That is very generous of Nick Clegg to say that. With his poll ratings
:14:17. > :14:22.of 9%. I think it is up to the general public to decide who they
:14:22. > :14:23.want to form a government. We are campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:23. > :14:38.that just boring boring? I want campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:39. > :14:41.serve in a Labour government is campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:41. > :14:44.a coalition government. That is campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:44. > :14:49.we are campaigning for. Thank you for joining us. Steve Richards,
:14:49. > :14:55.we are campaigning for. Thank you has Ed Miliband got to do this
:14:55. > :15:01.week? He has got to start to win the argument about the economy. I think
:15:01. > :15:05.they will be quite clever on that in terms of saying that the recovery
:15:05. > :15:10.has begun but it is not going to benefit many of the voters. Unlike
:15:10. > :15:24.previous economic recoveries. That is a strong line and they need to
:15:24. > :15:26.make that again and again. The recovery has barely started. The
:15:26. > :15:28.make that again and again. The interesting thing, Isabel, they
:15:28. > :15:32.make that again and again. The to make a living standards the issue
:15:32. > :15:36.let's return to living standards which have been squeezed. The polls
:15:36. > :15:43.show that twice as many people blame Labour for the living standards
:15:43. > :15:45.show that twice as many people blame the Conservatives. It is a great
:15:45. > :15:48.scene for them to mine, and it is the only one before they announce
:15:48. > :15:52.big policies, but they have not gained the trust of voters on the
:15:52. > :15:56.economy, so the Conservatives can say they are finishing the job of
:15:56. > :16:02.fixing the recovery now and then cannot quite trust us with the
:16:02. > :16:09.economy but we will talk about living standards. Ed Miliband's
:16:09. > :16:12.economy but we will talk about elucidating policies and not just
:16:12. > :16:18.incredibly vulnerable. The only thing worse than not having a policy
:16:18. > :16:24.for an opposition leader is to have a policy. It gives the opposition
:16:24. > :16:26.something to attack, the media something to scrutinise and it makes
:16:26. > :16:31.you bold rubble and you can see something to scrutinise and it makes
:16:31. > :16:42.coming through already before the conference has started. You have
:16:42. > :16:47.childcare. Spigot can he provide wraparound childcare for free?
:16:47. > :16:49.childcare. Spigot can he provide can he provide wraparound childcare
:16:49. > :16:56.for free? I don't even know what it is. Opposition is emphatically an
:16:56. > :17:00.art form, and the art form, and artform for them at the moment is to
:17:00. > :17:05.announce policies without spending any money and it is very difficult
:17:05. > :17:09.to do. You gave an illustration any money and it is very difficult
:17:09. > :17:14.how difficult it is. They are under huge pressure, for the last year, to
:17:14. > :17:18.announce policies and they announce one on childcare and you immediately
:17:18. > :17:23.say, how do you paper it? And she immediately says, we will not spend
:17:23. > :17:28.a penny on it, because they are terrified of spending anything.
:17:28. > :17:32.a penny on it, because they are is where it an artform. The tax
:17:32. > :17:37.suspension before and election is crazy, because they will find money
:17:37. > :17:41.one way or another, but in another way, they cannot say we will spend
:17:41. > :17:44.money on this. It is a real problem. How do you measure the state of
:17:44. > :17:47.money on this. It is a real problem. coalition after the Liberal Democrat
:17:47. > :17:51.conference? The Liberal Democrats were in a very strong position after
:17:51. > :17:55.their conference, Nick Clegg had faced and activists on some issues,
:17:55. > :18:00.including fracking, which they supported, which seem to be the
:18:00. > :18:02.including fracking, which they important part of the conference. In
:18:02. > :18:06.terms of the coalition, the Tories have had to sit and watch as Vince
:18:06. > :18:10.Cable, Nick Clegg and Coe have basically criticised them and said
:18:10. > :18:13.they are evil and only the Lib Dems can make sure the Government is
:18:13. > :18:15.they are evil and only the Lib Dems and works properly. So in terms
:18:15. > :18:17.they are evil and only the Lib Dems how the coalition works, you can
:18:17. > :18:25.expect to see some revenge at the Tory conference. The Lib Dems, Nick
:18:25. > :18:32.Clegg's followers, they had their revenge. Mister Clegg may have
:18:33. > :18:38.convinced his own activists to stay behind him, but he has a bigger
:18:38. > :18:41.convincing the British people. There is some interesting polling they
:18:41. > :18:46.have done privately that suggests there is a market of about 25% of
:18:46. > :18:50.the electorate which is plausibly open to them, and all they have
:18:50. > :18:51.the electorate which is plausibly do is target policies remorselessly
:18:51. > :18:55.at that group, rather than the broader public, in order to do well
:18:55. > :18:58.enough at the next election to hold the balance of power. That is why
:18:58. > :19:01.policies that seem weird to us, the balance of power. That is why
:19:01. > :19:15.free school meals regardless of income, may perversely make sense to
:19:15. > :19:17.them. Because it appeals to their political world we are in, the
:19:17. > :19:20.Labour strategists think they can political world we are in, the
:19:20. > :19:20.Labour strategists think they can win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going
:19:20. > :19:22.to concentrate on 25. The Tories win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going
:19:22. > :19:24.to concentrate on 25. The Tories have seized to be a national party
:19:24. > :19:28.any more. We haven't been used to it for a long time. In the 80s, one
:19:28. > :19:32.party dominated, the Tories. In for a long time. In the 80s, one
:19:32. > :19:39.90s into the 21st century, the policy matter delayed the Labour
:19:39. > :19:42.Party dominated. -- the Labour party dominated. We are now here but we
:19:42. > :19:46.have other parties hoping that dominated. We are now here but we
:19:46. > :19:49.will give them a small overall majority and it is the best they can
:19:49. > :19:55.get. It is a very odd situation where the main two parties feel
:19:55. > :20:00.get. It is a very odd situation can lose and the Lib Dems are openly
:20:00. > :20:05.targeting only 25%. They have gotten rid of 75% already and it is a long
:20:05. > :20:12.way from the policies of last couple of decades Nick Clegg talked about
:20:13. > :20:15.all of the policies he had locked. There is a real opportunity for
:20:15. > :20:17.all of the policies he had locked. Conservatives to say that he is
:20:17. > :20:21.blocking all of the things that voters outside of our bays are
:20:21. > :20:26.interested in, top immigration policy, human rights reform, that
:20:26. > :20:30.sort of thing. David Cameron can say that in Manchester next week. One
:20:30. > :20:46.thing was quite clear, it came out of this awayday, and and this is
:20:46. > :20:51.this, that when you look at Mister Miller band's polls, the Tories
:20:51. > :20:57.this, that when you look at Mister going to make this a presidential
:20:57. > :21:04.Which is why I am curious why they When the strength of your party
:21:04. > :21:07.Which is why I am curious why they against his opponents, why not have
:21:07. > :21:09.him or her juxtaposed against them in 90 minutes three times a week.
:21:09. > :21:17.past week has given us inklings When the Lib Dems gathered for their
:21:17. > :21:24.Government is planning on fighting When the Lib Dems gathered for their
:21:24. > :21:25.annual shindig in Glasgow, some ministers were non-too complimentary
:21:25. > :21:31.about their blue blood fellows. ministers were non-too complimentary
:21:31. > :21:36.bedfellows. Vince Cable led the ministers were non-too complimentary
:21:36. > :21:40.Tories had reverted to type as a nasty party and describe their
:21:40. > :21:44.politics as ugly, cynical, callous and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not
:21:44. > :21:47.restrict himself to policies that and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not
:21:47. > :21:49.the Lib Dems had champion, such and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not
:21:49. > :21:58.increasing the amount you can earn before paying tax. The Deputy Prime
:21:58. > :22:01.Minister proudly listed all of the things he had stopped the Tories
:22:01. > :22:05.from doing. Speak of scrapping housing benefit the young people,
:22:05. > :22:13.no. No to ditching the human rights act. No to weakening the protections
:22:13. > :22:16.in the equalities act. So how much of a break have the yellow brigade
:22:16. > :22:18.being on Conservative ambitions question mark in the two leaders
:22:18. > :22:22.shake hands again after the 20 question mark in the two leaders
:22:22. > :22:29.election, what policies were David Cameron insist on. -- 2015? No
:22:29. > :22:32.matter how many times Nick Clegg And Grant Shapps joins me the Sunday
:22:32. > :22:48.Grant Shapps, good morning. Nick self-styled. He boasted to his
:22:48. > :22:53.conference that he had stopped the Tories from going ahead with 16
:22:53. > :22:56.policies in government. Is this accurate? I don't know but what
:22:56. > :22:59.policies in government. Is this can tell you, as your commentator
:22:59. > :23:03.Isabel said, some of the policies that we wanted them if we were a
:23:03. > :23:06.majority government sent out to that we wanted them if we were a
:23:06. > :23:10.very popular things, like reforming the human rights act and some of the
:23:10. > :23:11.problems that provides when it comes to sending people who have no right
:23:11. > :23:15.to be in this country back. So there to be in this country back. So there
:23:15. > :23:24.may be some things we could have inheritance tax cut? I don't know
:23:25. > :23:30.the details, but I think it is negotiation and sometimes you can't
:23:30. > :23:35.get everything you want, and we negotiation and sometimes you can't
:23:35. > :23:37.done the best, given where the electoral maths left us. That is why
:23:37. > :23:39.70 people in this country say they electoral maths left us. That is why
:23:39. > :23:42.70 people in this country say they would rather see a single party
:23:42. > :23:49.running the country -- why so many people. I have to say I agree. They
:23:49. > :23:53.Give me a couple of major policies that you would introduce if you
:23:53. > :23:56.Give me a couple of major policies had a majority in 2010 and were
:23:56. > :24:02.Give me a couple of major policies held back by the Lib Dems. Speaking
:24:02. > :24:08.the one I just mentioned would be Country, we have had 1,000 years of
:24:08. > :24:11.than capable of putting in place developing the law and we are more
:24:11. > :24:14.than capable of putting in place sensible laws. you would have left
:24:15. > :24:19.the European Court of human rights. We have already started the process
:24:19. > :24:23.of negotiation. There was some progress, but limited, and we would
:24:23. > :24:27.like to move further. Let me give you one other. I think this country
:24:27. > :24:30.has a great future but we can only ourselves the best place in the
:24:30. > :24:34.world to come and set up a business. ourselves the best place in the
:24:34. > :24:39.If we make ourselves the best place entrepreneurship and I think there
:24:39. > :24:44.are a host of things we could do to go further on cutting back red tape.
:24:44. > :24:52.And the Lib Dems have stopped you? I think that is the case. In what
:24:52. > :24:56.ways, if any, have the Lib Dems improved the coalition process? It
:24:57. > :24:58.has been a stable government. No one talks about when the next election
:24:58. > :25:04.will come, we know it is in May talks about when the next election
:25:04. > :25:10.but that is in part being in a coalition. The Tories wouldn't have
:25:10. > :25:16.done that? It wasn't the plan of any party to go from... In the old days,
:25:16. > :25:21.there would have been speculation. debate, you changed the British
:25:21. > :25:27.constitution in a fundamental way and nobody got a say. It was debated
:25:27. > :25:33.on the floor of the Has, as all constitutional changes are and there
:25:33. > :25:36.was a lot of agreement -- of the House. Nobody has ever said to me
:25:36. > :25:44.that it is a problem that we now have a fixed term parliament. Here
:25:44. > :25:49.it is, every five years. This is what it has done, it has provided
:25:49. > :25:52.stability in an incredibly uncertain economic time and that has been
:25:52. > :26:01.stability in an incredibly uncertain for the economy. we will chalk that
:26:01. > :26:09.up to delete -- Lib Dem. What about taking people out of tax, the Lib
:26:09. > :26:15.Dems did that question mark it is a great policy. It is a conservative
:26:15. > :26:21.led government, it is a Conservative This is a screen grab from your
:26:21. > :26:25.party's website, income tax cut This is a screen grab from your
:26:25. > :26:29.25 million people. You are taking the credit for it, it wouldn't have
:26:29. > :26:33.happened without the Lib Dems. It certainly came about because of
:26:33. > :26:35.happened without the Lib Dems. It coalition and we put it in the
:26:35. > :26:36.coalition agreement. It could not have happened without a Conservative
:26:36. > :26:41.Chancellor making it happen. It have happened without a Conservative
:26:41. > :26:48.right, 25 million people taken out of tax. Another 17 by this April
:26:48. > :26:52.will not be paying tax at all. you didn't want to do it. Look at what
:26:52. > :27:06.David Cameron told Nick Clegg during What Nick Clegg is promising is
:27:06. > :27:10.David Cameron told Nick Clegg during £17 billion tax cut. We are saying,
:27:10. > :27:14.stop the waste of 6 billion to stop the national insurance rise. I would
:27:14. > :27:17.love to take everyone out of their first £10,000 of income tax, it
:27:17. > :27:24.love to take everyone out of their beautiful idea but we cannot afford
:27:24. > :27:30.unaffordable and now you are taking the credit for it. I feel like it is
:27:30. > :27:33.having a three year afterwards argument, and we got into coalition
:27:33. > :27:37.because the British people put us there and we agreed to make the
:27:37. > :27:41.because the British people put us of it. And as it happens, if you
:27:41. > :27:46.absolutely think it is the right thing to take as many people out of
:27:46. > :27:54.tax entirely as possible. Two points 7 million people pay no tax at all
:27:54. > :27:59.threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm pleased it worked out. What are
:27:59. > :27:59.threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm most important thing is a majority
:27:59. > :28:05.Tory government would do after most important thing is a majority
:28:05. > :28:08.unencumbered by the Lib Dems? I think produce even more jobs when
:28:08. > :28:11.unemployment goes down, because think produce even more jobs when
:28:11. > :28:16.are the most entrepreneurial place to set up a business. Are more
:28:16. > :28:20.free-market economy? We make our money because we are out global
:28:20. > :28:26.trading economy. That is why it money because we are out global
:28:26. > :28:30.so important that we have to make sure it is easy to trade around
:28:30. > :28:32.so important that we have to make world. One simple example, it is
:28:32. > :28:34.crazy in my view that we have global tariffs that prevent some of the
:28:34. > :28:36.hardest other countries in the tariffs that prevent some of the
:28:36. > :28:36.hardest other countries in the world, in developing parts of the
:28:36. > :28:43.world, from exporting to us and world, in developing parts of the
:28:43. > :28:47.versa. I'm giving you a platform of things that I think we would be
:28:48. > :28:51.versa. I'm giving you a platform of interested in progressing in. It
:28:51. > :28:52.sounds like you are talking about even more Thatcherite, market led
:28:52. > :28:59.agendas. I think that you did a even more Thatcherite, market led
:28:59. > :29:02.amount to show this country that if you want to help the least well
:29:03. > :29:05.amount to show this country that if people in society, and the least
:29:05. > :29:09.well off people in the world, around the globe, the way to do it is to
:29:09. > :29:14.trade, and I think we should have an economy which is much more open
:29:14. > :29:15.trade, and I think we should have an free trade. If there is another
:29:15. > :29:19.trade, and I think we should have an parliament, and the poll suggest
:29:19. > :29:25.there might be, at the moment it is all to play for on both sides, what
:29:25. > :29:31.would your non-negotiable Red Line speak? We are still two years away
:29:31. > :29:35.from that, it is a long way away, but there is a lot we want to lay
:29:36. > :29:40.out. What we are going to be saying to this country is most people want
:29:40. > :29:44.a single party running the country, they think it is clean and clear and
:29:44. > :29:49.you don't end up with negotiation setting out a very clear platform
:29:49. > :29:52.which will be for hard-working people in this country who want
:29:52. > :29:55.which will be for hard-working work hard and get on in life. We
:29:55. > :29:59.would, I think, want to see the welfare state that we have got into,
:29:59. > :30:02.where it is no longer about helping those most in need but became a
:30:02. > :30:08.situation where you are better off not working than in worker, I think
:30:08. > :30:11.we plan to ensure that this is an incredibly fair place to go out
:30:11. > :30:14.we plan to ensure that this is an do a day's work and get the money at
:30:14. > :30:18.the end of the day rather than thinking there is an alternative.
:30:18. > :30:20.you have promised a referendum on UK membership of the EU in 2017, that
:30:20. > :30:27.must be your first Red Line? We membership of the EU in 2017, that
:30:27. > :30:35.clear, we want to see a referendum, a reform European Union. So no
:30:35. > :30:38.poll... ? I should remind viewers that there is an act of Parliament,
:30:38. > :30:46.a bill going through Parliament right now, for a referendum on the
:30:46. > :30:49.EU, which comes back to the House. It is past the report stage and
:30:49. > :30:55.comes back in November and we will be discussing it. The Lib Dems,
:30:55. > :31:01.Labour, will have an opportunity to support what the British people
:31:01. > :31:04.want. Lots may have changed. But it would be a Red Line for any future
:31:04. > :31:14.coalition government question mark we are clear that it is time to
:31:14. > :31:16.coalition government question mark manifesto. What is wrong with yes or
:31:16. > :31:22.no? I cannot write the manifesto for 2015. You are asking me to project
:31:22. > :31:26.beyond that and see in advance the election result and carry out the
:31:26. > :31:31.negotiations that are yet to come. I'm just trying to work out how
:31:31. > :31:41.much... I know you are committed but she won't tell me. Let's move on.
:31:41. > :31:48.Your party has been described as nasty and blinkered. What do you
:31:48. > :31:54.feel when he says that? We are interested in helping the most
:31:54. > :32:01.vulnerable people in society. I think we're doing all that and more.
:32:01. > :32:05.And it is a shame that that language was used because we have made so
:32:05. > :32:07.much progress together. Are you getting to the end of your tether
:32:07. > :32:22.with Mr King? I do not think it getting to the end of your tether
:32:23. > :32:25.terribly helpful for any Cabinet minister to make comments like that.
:32:25. > :32:35.What I would say is that Nick Clegg minister to make comments like that.
:32:35. > :32:40.is the leader of the Lib Dems and entitled to have a view on it
:32:40. > :32:47.himself. Look at these figures on party membership. Why has your party
:32:47. > :32:53.lost half of its members since Mr Cameron became leader? I would like
:32:54. > :32:58.it to be more. But I think the world has changed. People do not rush out
:32:58. > :33:08.and join political parties as they used to. Instead they support you in
:33:08. > :33:12.different ways. If I released the number of people who give to the
:33:12. > :33:18.party in different ways, through donations for example, through
:33:18. > :33:26.friend memberships. If you include that that figure goes back up. But
:33:26. > :33:36.your membership has fallen by 50% at a time when UKIP has doubled. I do
:33:36. > :33:44.not want to to misinterpret what I want to say. It is important to gain
:33:44. > :33:47.members. I think we will have done that by the time of the next
:33:47. > :33:54.election. But one statistic of interest, in the last election I had
:33:54. > :34:00.a 17,000 majority in my own constituency. The difference was I
:34:00. > :34:05.had 1000 people helping me to deliver leaflets and knock on the
:34:05. > :34:14.doors. The Conservative party has changed. We now have an army of
:34:14. > :34:20.people, volunteers who are not necessarily traditional members. The
:34:20. > :34:26.days when you expect people to give you £25, before you accept their
:34:26. > :34:33.support, those days have passed. You spoke about your most vulnerable
:34:33. > :34:40.marginal seats. This is a poll from Michael Ashcroft. The 40 most
:34:40. > :34:48.marginal seats that you will be defending. Labour is way up, you are
:34:48. > :34:58.way down and UKIP is also up. What is happening, the Lib Dem Mo -- both
:34:58. > :35:02.are moving to Labour. And disillusioned Conservatives are
:35:02. > :35:09.moving to UKIP. If these figures came at an election he would lose 32
:35:09. > :35:13.of these 40 seats. The point about any opinion poll is that it is
:35:13. > :35:18.perhaps accurate at the moment it is taken. We are now in a position
:35:19. > :35:30.where the economy has turned the corner. The right thing to do was to
:35:30. > :35:35.deal with the deficit. The people being asked about these things, they
:35:35. > :35:41.will be interested in their own standard of living. Their mortgage
:35:41. > :35:49.payments. Why are you doing worse in the marginal seats? National League
:35:49. > :35:56.you are kind of nip and tuck with Labour. Well if that is the pick to
:35:56. > :36:00.come 2015, people will see that this government has stuck to its guns. It
:36:00. > :36:06.did not go for more borrowing and spending. And the record
:36:06. > :36:12.demonstrates that the last thing you want to do is give the car keys back
:36:12. > :36:17.to the people who crashed it in the first place. Lynton Crosby at this
:36:17. > :36:24.away day of Conservative MPs, his one message was to go all out and
:36:24. > :36:31.attack Ed Miliband. It is going to be a nasty election. That is
:36:31. > :36:36.actually not true. We are going to focus on his policies, if he finally
:36:36. > :36:42.announces some. Everything we have seen so far suggests it would mean
:36:42. > :36:53.more borrowing and spending. The shadow chancellor said we would be
:36:53. > :36:58.ruthless, just a few months later, 27.9 pounds of extra spending
:36:58. > :37:08.committed by Labour. These are your figures. I will speak to you about
:37:08. > :37:11.that during the Tory conference. It's just after 11:30. You're
:37:11. > :37:15.watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20 minutes. Alastair
:37:15. > :37:16.Campbell gives us his not-too-positive review of Damian
:37:16. > :37:31.Hello once again from the Midlands. McBride's memoirs. Until
:37:31. > :37:35.Hello once again from the Midlands. I'm Patrick Burns. And we're joined
:37:35. > :37:37.today by a Gloucestershire MP and an MEP representing everywhere in the
:37:37. > :37:46.Midlands, except Gloucestershire, Michael Cashman is the West Midlands
:37:46. > :37:54.Labour MEP. A former actor, the child star of the original West End
:37:54. > :37:56.version of 'Oliver!'. And Martin Horwood, Liberal Democrat MP for
:37:56. > :38:00.Cheltenham, had an interesting childhood, too. His parents worked
:38:00. > :38:17.at GCHQ and at Bletchley Park before that. Martin spoke passionately in
:38:18. > :38:22.the Commons against the badger cull, currently being piloted in
:38:22. > :38:28.parts of his county. He will be interested to know that Owen
:38:28. > :38:35.Patterson told me that he was the true best friend of the badger. Why?
:38:35. > :38:41.Because average weight of badgers in the Irish Republic are up by £1 per
:38:41. > :38:50.animal and that as a result of the cull that has taken secondly badgers
:38:50. > :38:57.out of the ecosystem. —— badgers with TB. What would you say to Owen
:38:57. > :39:01.Patterson? If the government wants to rely on evidence, they should
:39:01. > :39:04.know that the badger cull does not make any difference to bovine TB.
:39:05. > :39:08.The government commissioned an expert study at great length and
:39:08. > :39:13.expense and has ignored the evidence and I am sorry about that and I
:39:13. > :39:17.think the cull is a mistake. David Heath, my Liberal Democrat colleague
:39:17. > :39:21.in the department, is doing some of the right things on cattle movement
:39:21. > :39:28.and that is something positive. Where do you stand on this,
:39:28. > :39:34.Michael? We have the cull and the vaccination, all sorts of different
:39:34. > :39:37.ways and evidence? I do not agree with Owen Patterson on his views on
:39:37. > :39:44.climate change and I do not agree with him on this. He refused to
:39:44. > :39:49.answer a question in the House of Commons about the numbers that have
:39:49. > :39:55.actually been culled. We are told it is fewer than 100 and a botched
:39:55. > :39:59.cull, according to the scientists, will actually spread of bovine TB
:39:59. > :40:05.rather than reduce it. I want them to go and talk to the scientist,
:40:05. > :40:07.look at what is happening in the field and change their plans,
:40:07. > :40:13.because it is important for the countryside is that everyone who
:40:13. > :40:17.lives and works there is involved. And Owen Paterson has been a busy
:40:17. > :40:20.man. He was in Moscow, as Russia finally agreed to lift its ban on
:40:21. > :40:24.British beef. It was the last country to end its restrictions, 27
:40:24. > :40:26.years after the BSE epidemic. Now comes the farming export drive. Our
:40:27. > :40:29.Rural Affairs Correspondent David Gregory—Kumar has been finding out
:40:29. > :40:43.how the government can help our farmers compete with their European
:40:43. > :40:47.counterparts, in world markets. Angus Beef in Shropshire. Turning a
:40:47. > :40:50.necessary by product of our Midlands dairy industry into a valuable
:40:50. > :40:53.product in it's own right. With the Russian Beef—ban lifted this is a
:40:53. > :40:56.prime product for export. Beef farmer Dan Morris has been to Russia
:40:56. > :41:06.and hosted a returning Russian delegation here on his farm.
:41:06. > :41:11.Something like that could have a huge impact here in Shropshire in
:41:11. > :41:15.terms of jobs and investment. Beef farmer Dan Morris has been to Russia
:41:15. > :41:20.and hosted a returning Russian delegation here on his farm. It
:41:20. > :41:24.would be disingenuous to say it was all down to me, but we certainly had
:41:24. > :41:30.a role to play in building relationships. But Dan says the
:41:30. > :41:36.government's work doesn't stop with the lifting of the ban. Now he has
:41:36. > :41:39.identified this opportunity, he needs to get the department involved
:41:39. > :41:43.in linking the people that will buy are meat in Russia to the people
:41:43. > :41:50.that process are animals, link them together, and that is the way we
:41:50. > :41:52.will generate extra demand. South to Herefordshire, where this glorious
:41:52. > :42:02.people's potato harvest will mean production is higher than ever! No,
:42:02. > :42:05.really! Once this potato has been turned into vulgar it is right for
:42:05. > :42:11.exporting and the people who do that are so good at it, and even export
:42:11. > :42:15.it to the Russians ——. Go. Yes, the man who brought us Tyrell's crisps
:42:15. > :42:19.is now in the alcohol business. And he's learnt a LOT about export since
:42:19. > :42:29.trying to get the french to buy Tyrell's vegetable crisps. We have
:42:29. > :42:32.the French did not like parsnips. We need the knowledge to look for a
:42:32. > :42:36.market and see what people are looking for. The government have not
:42:36. > :42:43.started to touch it, when you look at other countries, like France, the
:42:43. > :42:50.government will support you. It is amazing how much support they put
:42:50. > :42:54.into their farmers. Everyone has worked hard to get the last British
:42:54. > :43:05.beef ban lifted. But that's only the start. Shouldn't we learn from the
:43:05. > :43:09.French, looking at the European perspective, because they will
:43:09. > :43:16.support French exporting farmers with up to 50% of their promotional
:43:16. > :43:20.costs. We do a fair level of expert support —— export support, but we
:43:20. > :43:25.need to do more. What we are doing is looking at how our concept of
:43:25. > :43:28.regional investment banks can help these farmers. They have done a
:43:28. > :43:36.brilliant job selling their cattle and beef and at EU level, Labour
:43:36. > :43:40.members are pursuing the free trade agreements with countries like the
:43:40. > :43:45.US, India, China and Brazil and Russia, so that we have three axis
:43:45. > :43:51.into their markets which creates jobs and growth. The bottom line is
:43:51. > :43:56.that there is a big opportunity. It could be worth 100,000 extra
:43:56. > :44:01.animals, beef cattle, it is big bucks for farmers. He is quite right
:44:01. > :44:10.about pushing the free trade agreements. Should the government do
:44:10. > :44:18.more in terms of educating and assisting farmers? Yes. The former
:44:18. > :44:24.mentioned UK trade and investment. That gets rave reviews. We know that
:44:24. > :44:29.they are weaker in other industries. Agriculture and trying to sell beef
:44:29. > :44:34.and even vodka would be a good idea. We have to give due credit to the
:44:34. > :44:40.farmers union, who threw out the BSE crisis and through these bands have
:44:40. > :44:44.been unrelenting forbidding the case for British produce. We produce some
:44:44. > :44:51.of the best in the world, let us get a hind it. It is a big challenge for
:44:51. > :44:57.farmers to understand cultural and language issues, the Russians love
:44:57. > :45:05.beef hearts, it is hard to understand what the market needs.
:45:05. > :45:10.Education and training is provided, we need to learn the lessons from
:45:10. > :45:21.other countries. Especially other European countries. The keyword is
:45:21. > :45:24.research. Thank you. Here's a puzzle: what do these places have in
:45:24. > :45:26.common? Cannock Chase, Wolverhampton South West, Dudley South, North
:45:26. > :45:28.Warwickshire, Warwick and Leamington, Worcester, and
:45:28. > :45:31.Gloucester? Answer: they all have Conservative MPs with majorities
:45:31. > :45:34.under 5,000, so they should be prime Labour targets. But with no great
:45:34. > :45:37.surge in popularity, the polls suggest Labour's best chance is for
:45:37. > :45:40.UKIP to keep winning over disenchanted Tories. We'll hear from
:45:41. > :45:44.Nigel Farage shortly. But I put it to Ed Miliband that this was a very
:45:44. > :46:03.roundabout way of trying to wind seats. If we" looking at the
:46:03. > :46:08.election scene, it comes to something when Labour's best chance
:46:08. > :46:15.in those Tory marginals is strong support for the UKIP vote? I think
:46:15. > :46:18.that we will fight very hard and very well at the General Election in
:46:18. > :46:22.the West Midlands and we are going to be talking about the most
:46:22. > :46:26.important issue facing families at our conference and the General
:46:26. > :46:29.Election, which is the cost of living crisis. We have got a
:46:29. > :46:33.government that is saying we have got a recovery, but most ordinary
:46:33. > :46:38.families think life is getting harder. They do not have a
:46:38. > :46:43.government on their side, we would be that government. I asked the
:46:43. > :46:47.question, because that is exactly the point that that poll released a
:46:47. > :46:52.few days ago makes, but it is precisely in places like
:46:53. > :46:59.Gloucester, Tory marginal seats that UKIP pose the biggest threat to the
:46:59. > :47:02.Tories. We will fight for every vote because we have an important message
:47:02. > :47:09.for people considering voting for other parties. It is a message about
:47:09. > :47:13.how we tackle the problems Britain is facing. You can take two views
:47:13. > :47:17.about Britain, that the economy is fixed, which is what the government
:47:17. > :47:20.says, or you can think of that Britain should be doing a lot better
:47:20. > :47:25.and ordinary family should be doing better, and that is what we are
:47:25. > :47:30.about and that is what we will be talking about. When we talk together
:47:30. > :47:34.a year ago, you gave me an absolutely unequivocal undertaking
:47:34. > :47:40.of your support for high—speed rail, is that still the case
:47:40. > :47:45.eyes—macro yes. It is an important project for Britain, I am concerned
:47:45. > :47:49.about the rising costs, , but we have said we will scrutinise it for
:47:49. > :47:54.value for money. At a time like this, you cannot have blank chap ——
:47:54. > :48:00.blank cheques, but I continue to support it. Last week, Ed Balls was
:48:00. > :48:04.unenthusiastic about it, possibly the concern is about the money, but
:48:04. > :48:09.his language was very reserved and cautious and does not seem to chime
:48:09. > :48:15.with the optimism we have in this all—party consensus about it. It is
:48:15. > :48:19.correct to have a Shadow Chancellor who wants to make sure that things
:48:19. > :48:24.are value for money and what he said and what I have said is the same. We
:48:24. > :48:27.need a better infrastructure, I think high—speed rail can play a
:48:27. > :48:31.part and that is why I am a supporter, but I think the British
:48:31. > :48:36.people would expect the Labour Party and any party to be concerned and
:48:36. > :48:39.careful about making sure that every project is value for money and
:48:39. > :48:54.high—speed rail is exactly part of that. I have to ask you about the
:48:54. > :48:56.fallout from Falkirk, because that led to the departure of Tom Watson
:48:56. > :48:59.who has since spoken about rash decisions by the leadership. He is a
:48:59. > :49:03.dangerous man to be outside the camp. He is a good and decent person
:49:03. > :49:08.who has distinguished himself in many ways, like the campaign around
:49:08. > :49:13.phone hacking. He is somebody who is a friend of mine. The reason idea
:49:13. > :49:17.what I did around Falkirk and the other issues is I am determined to
:49:17. > :49:21.uphold the integrity of my party and I am determined to change my parties
:49:22. > :49:25.so that it can hear the voices of individual working people,
:49:25. > :49:29.individual members of trade Unions, we will get those changes through,
:49:29. > :49:37.so we are are a proper party who can fight for working people on the
:49:37. > :49:41.issues that matter. Ed Miliband there and it was also in that
:49:41. > :49:45.interview that he committed a Labour government to scrapping what he
:49:45. > :49:49.calls the bedroom tax, while David Cameron says it is the current spare
:49:49. > :49:55.room subsidy which needs to be abolished. Labour would close a
:49:55. > :50:00.boardroom tax loopholes and the shares for a right scheme to pay for
:50:01. > :50:05.all this. Martin, he is targeting what he says is the cost of living
:50:05. > :50:09.crisis, how do you oppose this announcement which is the keynote of
:50:09. > :50:11.the Labour Party conference? The Labour language on this has
:50:11. > :50:15.changed, quite apart from the fact that a couple of weeks ago, they
:50:15. > :50:19.were slapping down their spokesperson for saying they would
:50:19. > :50:23.reverse the bedroom tax. It is a hasty repositioning. It is about
:50:23. > :50:37.Labour trying to move attention away from the fact that the and there are
:50:37. > :50:39.clear signs of that recovery taking place. The language has changed from
:50:39. > :50:42.Ed Balls save the economy is flat lining. The language has changed to
:50:42. > :50:44.the cost of living. There are many answers that we have after we reduce
:50:44. > :50:57.taxes, income tax for the lowest paid... We heard those messages last
:50:57. > :51:04.week. They're giving 100,000 to millionaires. Labour are panicking
:51:04. > :51:08.on the recovery of the economy. Is it not playing a dangerous game in a
:51:09. > :51:12.sense that a lot of the polling organisations suggest that people
:51:13. > :51:13.support what the government is doing on benefits and this reinforces
:51:14. > :51:22.David Cameron's line, on benefits and this reinforces
:51:22. > :51:25.accept this parallel universe that the Liberal Democrats living, that
:51:25. > :51:32.the economy is off and running. The growth that we have is the slowest
:51:32. > :51:40.in 100 years. Let me get to the bedroom tax. It affects over 400,000
:51:40. > :51:45.disabled people in this country who actually need another bedroom. We
:51:45. > :51:50.see that there are currently 50,000 people facing evictions, what
:51:50. > :51:53.happens to them? There are currently hundreds of thousands in arrears
:51:53. > :51:58.because of the penalties that they face because they have an extra
:51:58. > :52:05.room. It is just and right that Labour says it will get rid of it
:52:05. > :52:08.and let me just say, the Liberal Democrats at the conference said
:52:08. > :52:12.look at all the brilliant things we did, they are in a collective
:52:12. > :52:16.government and have to accept responsibility for this policy and
:52:16. > :52:23.all of the other vicious approaches. It was introduced by Labour in
:52:23. > :52:26.respect to the private sector. If you want to hear what was said at
:52:26. > :52:31.the Glasgow conference, people were very concerned about the impact of
:52:31. > :52:35.the bedroom tax. I think we do need a review of the impact on the
:52:35. > :52:39.poorest people and that was a clear message from our delegates and
:52:39. > :52:56.members. I think the MPs need to start calling for that. Thank you.
:52:56. > :52:59.Nigel Farage MEP. And so, as promised, to that interview with
:52:59. > :53:02.Nigel Farage, the UKIP leader whose annual conference came just a week
:53:02. > :53:05.after the West Midlands MEP Mike Nattrass angrily resigned from the
:53:05. > :53:08.party. Having failed to get onto UKIP's list for next year's European
:53:08. > :53:11.elections, Mr Nattrass dismissed their chosen candidates as 'cronies'
:53:11. > :53:14.of Nigel Farage, of whom he had some pretty scathing things to say. How
:53:14. > :53:18.do you view being described as a totalitarian leader like Robert
:53:18. > :53:23.Mugabe? It is very complimentary to think that I have this brilliant
:53:23. > :53:27.devious political brain and eye and masterminding everything. It is
:53:27. > :53:32.balderdash. When I stood to become leader of the party, I said I was
:53:32. > :53:36.not going to do what I had done before and I would run to lead the
:53:37. > :53:42.party politically, and not to manage it or run it on a day to day basis,
:53:42. > :53:48.and I have centred myself from the candidate procedure. I have had
:53:48. > :53:52.nothing to do with it. Nevertheless, it you seem rather profligate with
:53:52. > :53:57.your MEPs in the West Midlands. Both of them have resigned, you have none
:53:57. > :54:01.in a region as important as the West Midlands. It is very important.
:54:01. > :54:07.Despite the problems, I was in Telford ten days ago and we had a
:54:07. > :54:12.massive public meeting. A political party, growing up from nothing, to
:54:12. > :54:16.where we have got today, does necessarily go through some
:54:16. > :54:20.teenagers. I think that in the West Midlands that is what we have been
:54:20. > :54:24.through. Does it not look more like a one—man band. Is that not the
:54:24. > :54:31.perception of the party? Perhaps it was. If you look at this particular
:54:31. > :54:35.conference, you see the deputy leader of the party taking a more
:54:35. > :54:42.prominent position. There are other people who will, like the man
:54:42. > :54:45.unveiling the energy policy, and we also have some female candidates in
:54:45. > :54:50.what will be very winnable position for the European elections. There is
:54:50. > :54:54.a fresh blood of talent. Mike Nattrass has been with us for years,
:54:55. > :54:59.I am sorry he has been deselected and I am surprised he did not get
:54:59. > :55:04.through the selection panel and I am sorry he is upset. It is not what I
:55:04. > :55:07.would have chosen. Nigel Farage MEP. And next week, in the last of my
:55:07. > :55:10.party leader interviews, I'll be talking to the Prime Minister David
:55:10. > :55:16.Cameron as he prepares for the Conservative Party Conference in
:55:16. > :55:23.Manchester. Are you and UKIP in an unholy alliance in marginal regions?
:55:23. > :55:27.Not at all. I honestly believe that we have problems with some of our
:55:27. > :55:31.own voters on the issue of immigration, which UKIP play up very
:55:31. > :55:36.strongly. I think they are a threat to the major parties. What I find
:55:36. > :55:41.interesting about that piece is that you have a member who left the
:55:41. > :55:45.Conservatives to go to UKIP and he is a climate change denier and he is
:55:45. > :55:49.their spokesperson. You have another member who left UKIP to go to the
:55:49. > :55:54.Conservatives. That tells you a lot about those parties and the conflict
:55:54. > :55:58.that they have for what they think are their hard—core voters. The
:55:58. > :56:05.problem for the Liberal Democrats is that UKIP are picking up the protest
:56:05. > :56:08.voters. Now you are one of the above. I have not met very many
:56:08. > :56:13.people who have gone from the Liberal Democrats to UKIP. I am
:56:13. > :56:18.talking about the general well of protest. I guess if there were
:56:18. > :56:23.people who were voting purely to protest, I am not sure they always
:56:23. > :56:30.voted Liberal Democrat, I can see that an angry party might be the
:56:30. > :56:34.place they would go. That's can be a very superficial kind of support and
:56:34. > :56:39.we have seen it with UKIP, they did very well in the last European
:56:39. > :56:44.elections and then they disappeared without trace. I think the real
:56:44. > :56:48.problem with UKIP, with their MEPs, they have the worst record of
:56:48. > :56:53.productivity in the Parliament. As someone said at our conference,
:56:53. > :57:00.U—boat, you claim your expenses, it UKIP. They are taken us towards exit
:57:00. > :57:06.from the European Union which could threaten jobs. That is the serious
:57:06. > :57:09.problem. Now, for our round—up of the political week in the Midlands
:57:09. > :57:32.in 60 seconds, brought to us today by BBC West Midlands Political
:57:32. > :57:34.Reporter Susana Mendonca. New Environment Agency rules got a
:57:34. > :57:37.frosty reception in Walsall. Hundreds of fridges have been dumped
:57:37. > :57:40.illegally because scrap yards can't take them. Hall Green MP Roger
:57:40. > :57:43.Godsiff wants the Attorney—General to review a six month sentence given
:57:43. > :57:46.to lorry driver Darren Foster. He hit and killed 13—year—old cyclist
:57:46. > :57:49.Hope Fennell. He'd been texting at the wheel. Solihull's MP will be
:57:49. > :57:52.popular with her better off constituents. She spoke against a
:57:52. > :57:56.conference motion to raise the top tax rate to 50p. It was defeated by
:57:56. > :57:58.four votes. We can raise far more through Mansion tax, closing tax
:57:58. > :58:02.loopholes and making dodging tax much harder to avoid. A year on and
:58:02. > :58:05.there's still no end in sight to the plebgate affair for Sutton Coldfield
:58:05. > :58:09.MP Andrew Mitchell. The cost so far, £150,000. And a serious case review
:58:09. > :58:12.into the death of Coventry schoolboy Daniel Pelka found his murder
:58:12. > :58:26.followed a series of missed opportunities to save him by the
:58:26. > :58:31.authorities. Never again, we say after these cases, we keep seeing
:58:31. > :58:36.dysfunctional safeguarding policies and people unable to act despite the
:58:36. > :58:41.evidence, how do we stop all this? It is a very difficult and
:58:41. > :58:49.depressing situation. We had the case of Peter Connelly and yet we
:58:49. > :58:54.keep on seeming to be here again. We need some kind of review of how we
:58:54. > :58:57.treat the profession of social work, because you have some sympathy for
:58:57. > :59:02.the social workers, they are desperately criticised but in other
:59:02. > :59:07.places they are criticised for being too heavy—handed. The evidence
:59:07. > :59:11.seemed to be there to be seen, he was malnourished, there were the
:59:11. > :59:15.injuries and time and again nothing happened. We have got to look at
:59:15. > :59:20.where we are getting it right. We have to learn from that. Issues such
:59:20. > :59:23.as this mean we can never be complacent when we are dealing with
:59:23. > :59:28.young lives and young children and we have to find a mechanism by which
:59:28. > :59:32.we can support our social workers and teachers when they decide to
:59:32. > :59:37.intervene. Currently, I believe people are terrified to intervene
:59:37. > :59:41.and we have got to remedy that. Do you think there is a cultural issue,
:59:41. > :59:46.a line which question, in an increasingly diverse society, we
:59:46. > :59:51.have to face this? It has been highlighted in previous reports, but
:59:51. > :59:55.if there is a cultural issue, we need to overcome that. If there is a
:59:55. > :00:02.cultural issue, we need to deal with our culture and respect and protect
:00:02. > :00:10.children. Next week, we will examine the case for and against the living
:00:10. > :00:14.wage as opposed to the minimum wage and Inside Out will be meeting Tina
:00:14. > :00:16.from Telford, she is a mother of six and she will be showing us how she
:00:16. > :00:20.can feed her family for £60 a week. and she will be showing us how she
:00:20. > :00:33.Blackman and Sadiq Khan, thanks very much. Leafing through the papers the
:00:33. > :00:38.Blackman and Sadiq Khan, thanks very last few days has taken me back
:00:38. > :00:40.Blackman and Sadiq Khan, thanks very my youth. The halcyon days of the
:00:40. > :00:44.2000s, when the warring Blairite and Brownite tribes fought over who
:00:44. > :00:46.Brown's chief spin doctor Damian should run the Labour Party. Gordon
:00:46. > :00:48.Brown's chief spin doctor Damian McBride - McPoison, or worse, to his
:00:48. > :00:57.enemies - has published his memoirs, timed for maximum impact in the
:00:57. > :00:59.enemies - has published his memoirs, of Labour's Conference. They detail
:00:59. > :01:02.how Mr McBride briefed against colleagues, brought down Cabinet
:01:02. > :01:06.Ministers, that is - and fought tooth and nail to promote the man he
:01:07. > :01:13.called "the greatest man he ever met" - Gordon Brown. Joining us
:01:13. > :01:14.called "the greatest man he ever is Tony Blair's former Director
:01:14. > :01:20.called "the greatest man he ever Communications, Alastair Campbell.
:01:20. > :01:28.You are angry about what he has Communications, Alastair Campbell.
:01:28. > :01:35.in this book. Why is that. It is partly the fact that he has done it
:01:35. > :01:38.in a way that will be -- will be damaging to the Labour Party at
:01:38. > :01:41.in a way that will be -- will be time. But also because of the lies
:01:41. > :01:51.that he told at the time that he now communications and trying to hold
:01:51. > :01:58.the thing together, build the team. There was also Charlie Whelan and
:01:58. > :02:03.others. And that job was made more difficult than it should have been.
:02:03. > :02:07.I used to challenge Gordon Brown about it. And there came a stage
:02:07. > :02:15.where I said if Whelan does not about it. And there came a stage
:02:15. > :02:20.I will go. And when Damian McBride was on the scene I was clear that I
:02:20. > :02:26.was not going to have anything to do with him. Because of what he is
:02:26. > :02:29.was not going to have anything to do admitting to, I think they played
:02:29. > :02:35.quite a significant part in pushing Labour out of power. Because the
:02:35. > :02:40.public were being fed by them, this public were being fed by them, this
:02:40. > :02:48.narrative, the whole time. That Blair was useless, Charles Clarke
:02:48. > :02:51.was useless. And I think that we where the government and had very
:02:51. > :02:58.good ministers trying to do big things for the country. I said this
:02:58. > :03:04.morning it was like being a foot tall team were on the pitch you
:03:04. > :03:07.morning it was like being a foot your own players kicking the star
:03:07. > :03:10.players. That is why I am angry about it because I think they helped
:03:10. > :03:17.usher in a conservative government. If we had all stuck together I think
:03:17. > :03:25.did not win the last election, that is a reasonable point. But surely
:03:25. > :03:30.undermine Tony Blair and to promote their man, Gordon Brown. It is
:03:30. > :03:39.inconceivable then that Gordon Brown did not know about it. Well in spite
:03:39. > :03:43.reasonably good relationship with Gordon Brown. I used to challenge
:03:43. > :03:51.him a lot about what Whelan was doing. He would always say, I will
:03:51. > :03:57.sort it out. Another thing that annoys me is this sense put forward
:03:57. > :04:03.by the right wing media that there was this sense of equivalence.
:04:03. > :04:10.People like Steve who I have known for years, there is not a single
:04:10. > :04:14.journalist with the very occasional exception where I lost my temper,
:04:14. > :04:20.who would honestly be able to tell you that I ever breathed against
:04:20. > :04:28.ministers. That was my golden rule. People say you were the forerunner.
:04:28. > :04:41.I know it was not the case. One People say you were the forerunner.
:04:41. > :04:53.the reasons why I do despise what they did, the whole spin thing which
:04:53. > :05:03.associated with, once I wrote a actually within the government,
:05:03. > :05:03.associated with, once I wrote a had a principle of maximum openness
:05:03. > :05:08.and trust. Anyone could come to had a principle of maximum openness
:05:08. > :05:14.morning meetings on condition that what was discussed their state as
:05:14. > :05:16.part of the team. I had to say to Gordon Brown, your people are not
:05:16. > :05:22.coming. Because I knew where it Gordon Brown, your people are not
:05:22. > :05:27.coming from. Did you know that the time but Charles Clarke and others
:05:27. > :05:31.were effectively being destroyed from within the Labour government? I
:05:31. > :05:39.certainly knew that they thought that. I did know journalists telling
:05:39. > :05:51.me that that was what was happening. Ultimately, this is why I never
:05:51. > :05:57.me that that was what was happening. leaders, it is ultimately up to
:05:57. > :06:01.me that that was what was happening. litre. Possibly in a different age
:06:01. > :06:04.Gordon Brown would have been an amazing Prime Minister. He was a
:06:04. > :06:11.great chancellor. But he had a flaw, this need for truly horrible
:06:11. > :06:14.people to be around him doing truly horrible things in politics and
:06:14. > :06:18.giving him and the Labour Party horrible things in politics and
:06:18. > :06:29.politics a bad name. That is why I'm still angry about Damian McBride.
:06:29. > :06:32.What do you make of it? The current administration is a contrast. We
:06:32. > :06:39.have rival factions occupying the same offices but they still get
:06:39. > :06:41.have rival factions occupying the The only time they have a row is
:06:41. > :06:45.when something really big happens. But with that one party in Downing
:06:45. > :06:51.Street there was fighting the whole time. Did Ed Balls know about this.
:06:51. > :07:03.I would assume so. I spoke with time. Did Ed Balls know about this.
:07:03. > :07:13.about it at the time. He told me at the time that he had spoken about it
:07:13. > :07:18.with Gordon Brown. So I think there was a concern from within that camp
:07:18. > :07:28.about some of these activities at equivalence, in life you expect
:07:28. > :07:28.about some of these activities at see that there is full on both
:07:28. > :07:34.sides. But I do not buy it in this see that there is full on both
:07:34. > :07:37.case. If you look at the testimonies see that there is full on both
:07:37. > :07:42.over the years, what you can surmise about the character of Gordon Brown
:07:42. > :07:48.and of Tony Blair, it was ultimately driven by Gordon Brown and the
:07:48. > :07:52.people around him. The Blairites did things but they did then by way
:07:52. > :07:56.people around him. The Blairites did retaliation rather than initiation.
:07:56. > :08:01.The one-time when I did lose it retaliation rather than initiation.
:08:01. > :08:03.the whole psychological force thing. That came at the end of a period
:08:03. > :08:09.when we were relentlessly being That came at the end of a period
:08:09. > :08:12.in by Charlie Whelan and his gang of journalists. I would go along to
:08:13. > :08:20.colleagues would be there and I journalists. I would go along to
:08:20. > :08:25.had to sit there and not hit back. Saying I cannot believe Gordon Brown
:08:25. > :08:29.would have anything to do with this. You get to the stage where your
:08:29. > :08:29.would have anything to do with this. credibility is on the line. Coming
:08:29. > :08:40.promotion of alcohol awareness. credibility is on the line. Coming
:08:40. > :08:44.before that the Labour Party, you never had to deal with this in
:08:44. > :08:48.opposition because you were pretty far ahead in the polls by midterm.
:08:48. > :08:57.This time that is not the case. far ahead in the polls by midterm.
:08:57. > :09:04.is surprisingly narrow. What advice would you give to Ed Miliband? To
:09:04. > :09:09.keep his head out side of this bubble but it's all about him. And
:09:09. > :09:16.to use this week to really speak to the British people about himself,
:09:16. > :09:23.particularly the kind of policy agenda he is shaping for the future.
:09:23. > :09:28.And start to heart -- start to hit the Tories hard. They're not pop,
:09:29. > :09:34.they're not competent. They're screwing up the health service.
:09:34. > :09:36.they're not competent. They're yet they are neck and neck. I would
:09:36. > :09:43.say that the whole Shadow Cabinet understand that you win elections by
:09:43. > :09:50.wanting to win elections every minute of every day. There is too
:09:50. > :09:55.much complacency. A small lead now you have to grow that. You do that
:09:55. > :10:04.with energy and conviction and policy. Tony Blair had a huge pole
:10:04. > :10:11.bead in the run-up to 1997. We were winning seat where we had not even
:10:11. > :10:13.campaigned and he was saying, why celebrate because we have not won
:10:13. > :10:17.yet. You are promoting your alcohol celebrate because we have not won
:10:17. > :10:19.yet. You are promoting your alcohol awareness campaign. Perhaps the
:10:19. > :10:28.party conference is not the best place to do that! That is one reason
:10:28. > :10:34.why I am doing that. I'm hosting probably the only alcohol free
:10:34. > :10:42.reception of the week! There is nothing worse than a convert, I
:10:42. > :10:47.reception of the week! There is that. But I travel a lot. I travel
:10:47. > :10:57.around the world and Britain has a something we should be ashamed of.
:10:57. > :11:04.Why is that, is it cultural? I think it is historical. But I dig David
:11:04. > :11:17.Cameron was right to go for minimum unit pricing and wrong to do a
:11:17. > :11:19.reversal. 6% of alcoholics get treatment. I expect that drugs are a
:11:19. > :11:26.problem but we spent £2 billion treatment. I expect that drugs are a
:11:26. > :11:28.100,000 problem drug takers and treatment. I expect that drugs are a
:11:28. > :11:41.million on 1.6 million problem have written this book about a young
:11:41. > :11:45.million on 1.6 million problem alcoholic, a teenager. And it is in
:11:45. > :11:49.the first person. People could think you are writing about yourself.
:11:49. > :11:56.did you choose a teenage girl? Well did you choose a teenage girl? Well
:11:56. > :12:06.partly, I dedicated this to the Southampton. He told me when he
:12:06. > :12:13.started his career that his patience was split nine to one, men to women
:12:13. > :12:21.and it is now 50 - 50. They're getting younger and younger. One
:12:21. > :12:27.doctor looking after me said I will take you around this hospital and
:12:27. > :12:34.the problems of alcohol are in every single ward. Not just accident and
:12:34. > :12:42.emergency. I watched the foot all, advertisements for gambling and
:12:42. > :12:52.advertising. How have we allowed this to happen, ? We are just awash
:12:52. > :12:59.with it. What we did I think on Availability and price either too
:12:59. > :13:05.means by which you can bring this down. And the country that has had
:13:05. > :13:17.the biggest success on this is Russia, bizarrely. Thank you very
:13:17. > :13:23.much for that. That's all for today. Thanks to all our guests. I'll be
:13:23. > :13:26.with live coverage of Labour Party Conference, including the speech
:13:26. > :13:27.from the man who wants to be the next Chancellor, Ed Balls. Remember