:00:36. > :00:44.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. George Osborne
:00:45. > :00:48.announces a ?50 cut to annual household energy bills. We'll talk
:00:49. > :00:51.to Lib Dem president Tim Farron ahead of the Chancellor's mini
:00:52. > :00:56.budget this week. Net immigration is up for the first
:00:57. > :01:00.time in two years. Labour and the Tories say they want to bring it
:01:01. > :01:10.down, but how? Shadow Home Secretary Yvette Cooper joins us for the
:01:11. > :01:13.Sunday Interview. The harder you shake the pack, the easier it will
:01:14. > :01:17.be for some cornflakes to get to the top. The Mayor of London says
:01:18. > :01:27.inequality and greed are essential to spur economic activity. The
:01:28. > :01:30.Millions of pounds intended to help people who have fallen on hard times
:01:31. > :01:33.remains capital is now a crisis. Another
:01:34. > :01:44.week, another strategy? Can this one deliver?
:01:45. > :01:47.And with me throughout today's programme, well, we've shaken the
:01:48. > :01:53.packet and look who's risen to the top. Or did we open it at the
:01:54. > :01:56.bottom? Helen Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Sam Coates. All three will be
:01:57. > :02:06.tweeting throughout the programme using the hashtag #bbcsp. So, after
:02:07. > :02:08.weeks in which Ed Miliband's promise to freeze energy prices has set the
:02:09. > :02:11.Westminster agenda, the Coalition Government is finally coming up with
:02:12. > :02:14.its answer. This morning the Chancellor George Osborne explained
:02:15. > :02:18.how he plans to cut household energy bills by an average of fifty quid.
:02:19. > :02:22.What we're going to do is roll back the levees that are placed by
:02:23. > :02:27.government on people's electricity bills. This will mean that for the
:02:28. > :02:33.average bill payer, they will have ?50 of those electricity and gas
:02:34. > :02:37.bills. That will help families. We are doing it in the way that
:02:38. > :02:40.government can do it. We are controlling the cost that families
:02:41. > :02:44.incurred because of government policies. We are doing it in a way
:02:45. > :02:48.that will not damage the environment or reduce our commitment to dealing
:02:49. > :02:54.with climate change. We will not produce commit men to helping
:02:55. > :03:00.low-income families with the cost of living. Janan, we are finally seeing
:03:01. > :03:04.the coalition begin to play its hand in response to the Ed Miliband
:03:05. > :03:07.freeze? They have been trying to respond for almost ten weeks and
:03:08. > :03:13.older responses have been quite fiddly. We are going to take a bit
:03:14. > :03:17.of tax year, put it onto general taxation, have a conversation with
:03:18. > :03:22.the energy companies, engineered a rebate of some kind, this is not
:03:23. > :03:27.very vivid. The advantage of the idea that they have announced
:03:28. > :03:34.overnight is that it is clear and it has a nice round figure attached to
:03:35. > :03:39.it, ?50. The chief of staff of President Obama, he said, if you are
:03:40. > :03:46.explaining, you're losing. The genius of this idea is that it does
:03:47. > :03:50.not require explanation. He would not drawn this morning on what
:03:51. > :03:53.agreement he had with the energy companies, and whether this would
:03:54. > :03:59.fall through to the bottom of the bill, but the way he spoke, saying,
:04:00. > :04:03.I am not going to pre-empt what the energy companies say, that suggests
:04:04. > :04:09.he has something up his sleeve. Yes, I thought so. The energy companies
:04:10. > :04:14.have made this so badly for so long. It would be awful if he announced
:04:15. > :04:18.this and the energy companies said, we are going to keep this money for
:04:19. > :04:23.ourselves. I do not think he is that stupid. The energy companies have an
:04:24. > :04:28.incentive to go along with this, don't they? My worry is that I am
:04:29. > :04:34.not sure how much it will be within the opinion polls. I think people
:04:35. > :04:39.might expect this now, it is not a new thing, it is not an exciting
:04:40. > :04:45.thing. Say in the markets, they may have priced the ten already. If by
:04:46. > :04:51.Thursday of this week, he is able to say, I have a ?50 cut coming to your
:04:52. > :04:54.bill. The energy companies have guaranteed that this will fall
:04:55. > :04:59.through onto your energy bill, and they have indicated to me that they
:05:00. > :05:06.themselves will not put up energy prices through 2014, has he shot the
:05:07. > :05:11.Ed Miliband Fox? I think he has a couple of challenges. It is still
:05:12. > :05:14.very hard. This is an answer for the next 12 months but did is no chance
:05:15. > :05:18.announced that Labour will stop saying they are going to freeze
:05:19. > :05:23.prices in the next Parliament. He will say, I have not just frozen
:05:24. > :05:28.them, I have done that as well and I have cut them. When people look at
:05:29. > :05:33.their energy bills, they are going up by more than ?50. This is a
:05:34. > :05:40.reduction in the amount that they are going up overall. Year on 08
:05:41. > :05:48.will be for George Osborne. He will have to come up with something this
:05:49. > :05:51.time next year. The detail in the Sunday papers reveals that George
:05:52. > :05:55.Osborne is trying to get the energy companies to put on bills that ?50
:05:56. > :06:00.has been knocked off your bill because of a reduction by the
:06:01. > :06:05.government. He is trying to get the energy companies to do his political
:06:06. > :06:08.bidding for him. It will be interesting to see if they go along
:06:09. > :06:14.with that, because then we will know how cross the arm with Ed Miliband.
:06:15. > :06:17.Let's get another perspective. Joining me now from Kendal in the
:06:18. > :06:23.Lake District is the president of the Liberal Democrats, Tim Farron.
:06:24. > :06:30.Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Good morning. Let me ask you this, the
:06:31. > :06:34.coalition is rowing back on green taxes, I do comfortable with that or
:06:35. > :06:40.is it something else you will rebel against? I am very comfortable with
:06:41. > :06:46.the fact we are protecting for the money is going. I am open to where
:06:47. > :06:50.the money comes from. The notion that we should stop insulating the
:06:51. > :06:54.homes of elderly people or stop investing in British manufacturing
:06:55. > :06:58.in terms of green industry, that is something that I resolutely oppose,
:06:59. > :07:03.but I am pleased that the funding will be made available for all that.
:07:04. > :07:07.You cannot ignore the fact that for a whole range of reasons, mostly
:07:08. > :07:12.down to the actions of the energy companies, you have prices that are
:07:13. > :07:18.shooting up and affecting lots of people, making life hard. You cannot
:07:19. > :07:23.ignore that. If we fund the installation of homes for older
:07:24. > :07:27.people and others, if we protect British manufacturing jobs, and
:07:28. > :07:33.raise the money through general taxation, I am comfortable with
:07:34. > :07:38.that. It is not clear that is going to happen. It looks like the
:07:39. > :07:41.eco-scheme, whereby the energy companies pay for the installation
:07:42. > :07:45.of those on below-average incomes, they will spin that out over four
:07:46. > :07:51.years, not two years, and one estimate is that that will cost
:07:52. > :07:57.10,000 jobs. You're always boasting about your commitment to green jobs,
:07:58. > :08:03.how do square that? I do not believe that. The roll-out will be longer.
:08:04. > :08:07.The number of houses reached will be greater and that is a good thing. My
:08:08. > :08:15.take is that it will not affect the number of jobs. People talk about
:08:16. > :08:19.green levies. There has been disparaging language about that sort
:08:20. > :08:25.of thing. There are 2 million people in this country in the lowest income
:08:26. > :08:33.families and they get ?230 off their energy bills because of what isn't
:08:34. > :08:39.-- because of what is disparaging the refer to as green stuff, shall
:08:40. > :08:45.we call it. There will be more properties covered. We both know
:08:46. > :08:52.that your party is being pushed into this by the Tories. You would not be
:08:53. > :08:54.doing this off your own bad. You are in coalition with people who have
:08:55. > :09:08.jettisoned their green Prudential is? -- credentials. You have made my
:09:09. > :09:12.point quite well. David Cameron's panicked response to this over the
:09:13. > :09:17.last few months was to ditch all the green stuff. It has been a job to
:09:18. > :09:22.make sure that we hold him to his pledges and the green cord of this
:09:23. > :09:24.government. That is why we are not scrapping the investment, we are
:09:25. > :09:33.making sure it is funded from general taxation. I am talking to
:09:34. > :09:38.you from Kendal. Lots of people struggle to pay their energy bills.
:09:39. > :09:41.But all these things pale into insignificance compared to the
:09:42. > :09:45.threat of climate change and we must hold the Prime Minister to account
:09:46. > :09:49.on this issue. Argue reconciled to the idea that as long as you're in
:09:50. > :09:57.coalition with the Tories you will never get a mansion tax? I am not
:09:58. > :10:01.reconciled to it. We are trying to give off other tax cut to the lowest
:10:02. > :10:06.income people. What about the mansion tax? That would be
:10:07. > :10:11.potentially paid for by another view source of finance. That would be
:10:12. > :10:15.that the wealthy... We know that is what you want, but you're not going
:10:16. > :10:22.to get that? We will keep fighting for it. It is extremely important.
:10:23. > :10:31.We can show where we will get the money from. I know that is the
:10:32. > :10:37.adamant. That is not what I asked you. Ed Balls and Labour run in
:10:38. > :10:42.favour of a mansion tax, have you talked to them about it? The honest
:10:43. > :10:45.answer is I have not. It is interesting that they have come
:10:46. > :10:55.round to supporting our policy having rejected it in power. So if
:10:56. > :10:59.Labour was the largest party in parliament but not in power, you
:11:00. > :11:04.would have no problem agreeing with a mansion tax as part of the deal?
:11:05. > :11:09.If the arithmetic falls in that way and that is the will of the British
:11:10. > :11:15.people, fear taxes on those who are wealthiest, stuff that is fear,
:11:16. > :11:18.which includes wealth taxes, in order to fund more reductions for
:11:19. > :11:24.those people on lowest incomes, that is the sort of thing that we might
:11:25. > :11:32.reach agreement on. You voted with Labour on the spare room subsidy.
:11:33. > :11:39.Again, that would be job done in any future coalition talks with Labour,
:11:40. > :11:43.correct? I take the view that the spare room subsidy, whilst entirely
:11:44. > :11:48.fail in principle, in practice it has caused immense hardship. I want
:11:49. > :11:53.to see that changed. There are many people in government to share my
:11:54. > :11:58.view on that. So does Labour. The problem was largely caused Labour
:11:59. > :12:04.because they oversaw an increase in housing costs both 3.5 times while
:12:05. > :12:08.they were in power. The government was forced into a position to tidy
:12:09. > :12:20.up an appalling mess that Labour left. You voted with Labour against
:12:21. > :12:26.it, and also, you want... No, I voted with the party conference.
:12:27. > :12:37.Let's not dance on the head of the ten. Maybe they voted with me. -- on
:12:38. > :12:43.the head of a pin. You are also in favour of a 50% top rate of income
:12:44. > :12:47.tax, so you and Labour are that one there as well? No, I take the view
:12:48. > :12:54.that the top rate of income tax is a fluid thing. All taxation levels are
:12:55. > :13:00.temporary. Nick Clegg said that when the 50p rate came down to 45, that
:13:01. > :13:05.was a rather foolish price tag George Osborne asked for in return
:13:06. > :13:09.for as increasing the threshold and letting several million people out
:13:10. > :13:16.of paying income tax at the bottom. So you agree with Labour? In favour
:13:17. > :13:20.of rising the tax to 50p. I take the view that we should keep our minds
:13:21. > :13:24.open on that. It is not the income tax level that bothers me, it is
:13:25. > :13:30.whether the wealthy pay their fresh air. If that can be done through
:13:31. > :13:42.other taxes, then that is something that I am happy with. -- their fair
:13:43. > :13:46.share. Given your position on the top rate of tax, on the spare room
:13:47. > :13:51.subsidy, how does the prospect of another five years of coalition with
:13:52. > :13:57.the Tories strike you? The answer is, you react with whatever you have
:13:58. > :14:02.about you to what the electorate hand you. Whatever happens after the
:14:03. > :14:10.next election, you have got to respect the will of the people. Yes,
:14:11. > :14:15.but how do you feel about it? We know about this, I am asking for
:14:16. > :14:18.your feeling. Does your heart left or does your heart fall at the
:14:19. > :14:24.prospect of another five years with the Tories? My heart would always
:14:25. > :14:29.follow the prospect of anything other than a majority of Liberal
:14:30. > :14:33.Democrat government. Your heart must be permanently in your shoes then.
:14:34. > :14:39.Something like that, but when all is said and done, we accept the will of
:14:40. > :14:44.the electorate. When you stand for election, you have got to put up
:14:45. > :14:49.with what the electorate say. I have not found coalition as difficult as
:14:50. > :14:53.you might suggest. It is about people who have to disagree and
:14:54. > :14:56.agree to differ. You work with people in your daily life that you
:14:57. > :15:02.disagree with. It is what grown-ups do. A lot of people in your party
:15:03. > :15:07.think that your positioning yourself to be the left-wing candidate in a
:15:08. > :15:15.post-Nick Clegg leadership contest. They think it is blatant
:15:16. > :15:28.manoeuvring. One senior figure says, this is about you. Which bit of the
:15:29. > :15:34.sanctimonious, treacherous little man is there not to like? What can I
:15:35. > :15:37.see in response to that. My job is to promote the Liberal Democrats. I
:15:38. > :15:48.have to do my best to consider what I'd defend to be right. By and
:15:49. > :15:52.large, my position as an MP in the Lake District, but also as the
:15:53. > :15:57.president of the party, is to reflect the will of people outside
:15:58. > :16:03.the Westminster village. That is the important thing to do. Thank you for
:16:04. > :16:07.joining us. David Cameron has said he wants to get it down to the tens
:16:08. > :16:10.of thousands, Ed Miliband has admitted New Labour "got it wrong",
:16:11. > :16:14.and Nick Clegg wants to be "zero-tolerant towards abuse". Yes,
:16:15. > :16:16.immigration is back on the political agenda, with figures released
:16:17. > :16:20.earlier this week showing that net migration is on the rise for the
:16:21. > :16:23.first time in two years. And that's not the only reason politicians are
:16:24. > :16:28.talking about it again. The issue of immigration has come
:16:29. > :16:32.into sharp focus because of concerns about the number of remaining ins
:16:33. > :16:38.and Bulgarians that can come to the UK next year. EU citizenship grants
:16:39. > :16:43.the right to free movement within the EU. But when Bulgaria and
:16:44. > :16:46.Romania joined in 2007, the government took up its right to
:16:47. > :16:56.apply temporary restrictions on movement. They must be lifted
:16:57. > :16:57.apply temporary restrictions on end of this year. According to the
:16:58. > :17:01.2011 census, about one eyed 1 million of the population in England
:17:02. > :17:06.and Wales is made up of people from countries who joined the EU in 2004.
:17:07. > :17:12.The government has played down expectations that the skill of
:17:13. > :17:15.migration could be repeated. This week David Cameron announced new
:17:16. > :17:19.restrictions on the ability of EU migrants to claim benefits. That was
:17:20. > :17:30.two, send a message. That prompted criticism is that the UK risks being
:17:31. > :17:37.seen as a nasty country. Yvette Cooper joins me now for the Sunday
:17:38. > :17:40.interview. Welcome to the Sunday Politics, Yvette Cooper. You
:17:41. > :17:45.criticised the coalition for not acting sooner on immigration from
:17:46. > :17:49.Romania and Bulgaria but the timetable for the unrestricted
:17:50. > :17:53.arrival in January was agreed under Labour many years ago, and given the
:17:54. > :17:56.battle that you had with the Polish and the Hungarians, what
:17:57. > :18:00.preparations did you make in power? We think that we should learn from
:18:01. > :18:06.some of the things that happened with migration. It would have been
:18:07. > :18:11.better to have transitional controls in place and look at the impact of
:18:12. > :18:14.what happened. But what preparations did you make in power? We set out a
:18:15. > :18:20.series of measures that the Government still had time to bring
:18:21. > :18:25.in. It is important that this should be a calm and measured debate. There
:18:26. > :18:29.was time to bring in measures around benefit restrictions, for example,
:18:30. > :18:33.and looking at the impact on the labour market, to make sure you do
:18:34. > :18:38.not have exploitation of cheap migrant Labour which is bad for
:18:39. > :18:42.everyone. I know that but I have asked you before and I am asking
:18:43. > :18:46.again, what did you do? We got things wrong in Government. I
:18:47. > :18:53.understand that I am not arguing. You are criticising them not
:18:54. > :18:59.preparing, a legitimate criticism, but what did you do in power? Well,
:19:00. > :19:04.I did think we did enough. Did you do anything? We signed the agency
:19:05. > :19:10.workers directive but too slowly. We needed measures like that. We did
:19:11. > :19:14.support things like the social chapter and the minimum wage, but I
:19:15. > :19:19.have said before that we did not do enough and that is why we
:19:20. > :19:23.recommended the measures in March. I understand that is what you did in
:19:24. > :19:28.opposition and I take that. I put the general point to you that given
:19:29. > :19:33.your failure to introduce controls on the countries that joined in
:19:34. > :19:37.2004, alone among the major EU economies we did that, should we not
:19:38. > :19:42.keep an embarrassed silence on these matters? You have no credibility. I
:19:43. > :19:45.think you have got to talk about immigration. One of the things we
:19:46. > :19:48.did not do in Government was discussed immigration and the
:19:49. > :19:56.concerns people have and the long-term benefits that we know have
:19:57. > :19:58.come from people who have come to Britain over many generations
:19:59. > :20:01.contributing to Britain and having a big impact. I think we recognise
:20:02. > :20:05.that there are things that we did wrong, but it would be irresponsible
:20:06. > :20:10.for us not to join the debate and suggest sensible, practical measures
:20:11. > :20:14.that you can introduce now to address the concerns that people
:20:15. > :20:17.have, but also make sure that the system is fair and managed.
:20:18. > :20:21.Immigration is important to Britain but it does have to be controlled
:20:22. > :20:25.and managed in the right way. Let's remind ourselves of your record on
:20:26. > :20:31.immigration. The chart you did not consult when in power. This is total
:20:32. > :20:35.net migration per year under Labour. 2.2 million of net rise in
:20:36. > :20:46.migration, more than the population of Birmingham, you proud of that? --
:20:47. > :20:50.twice the population. Are you proud of that or apologising for it? We
:20:51. > :20:55.set the pace of immigration was too fat and the level was too high and
:20:56. > :21:00.it is right to bring migration down. So you think that was wrong?
:21:01. > :21:05.Overruled have been huge benefits from people that have come to
:21:06. > :21:10.Britain and built our biggest businesses. -- overall. They have
:21:11. > :21:14.become Olympic medal winners. But because the pace was too fast, that
:21:15. > :21:18.has had an impact. That was because of the lack of transitional controls
:21:19. > :21:23.from Eastern Europe and it is why we should learn from that and have
:21:24. > :21:28.sensible measures in place now, as part of what has got to be a calm
:21:29. > :21:33.debate. These are net migration figures. They don't often show the
:21:34. > :21:37.full figure. These are the immigration figures coming in. What
:21:38. > :21:42.that chart shows is that in terms of the gross number coming into this
:21:43. > :21:48.country, from the year 2000, it was half a million a year under Labour.
:21:49. > :21:53.Rising to 600,000 by the time you were out of power. A lot of people
:21:54. > :21:58.coming into these crowded islands, particularly since most of them come
:21:59. > :22:03.to London and the South East. Was that intentional? Was that out of
:22:04. > :22:09.control? Is that what you are now apologising for? What we said was
:22:10. > :22:12.that the Government got the figures wrong on the migration from Eastern
:22:13. > :22:16.Europe. If you remember particularly there was the issue of what happened
:22:17. > :22:22.with not having transitional controls in place. The Government
:22:23. > :22:26.didn't expect the number of people coming to the country to be the way
:22:27. > :22:31.it was. And so obviously mistakes were made. We have recognised that.
:22:32. > :22:34.We have also got to recognise that this is something that has happened
:22:35. > :22:39.in countries all over the world. We travel and trade far more than ever.
:22:40. > :22:43.We have an increasingly globalised economy. Other European countries
:22:44. > :22:47.have been affected in the same way, and America, and other developing
:22:48. > :22:52.countries affected in the same way by the scale of migration. I am
:22:53. > :22:57.trying to work out whether the numbers were intentional or if you
:22:58. > :23:01.lost control. The key thing that we have said many times and I have
:23:02. > :23:04.already said it to you many times, Andrew, that we should have a
:23:05. > :23:07.transitional controls in place on Eastern Europe. I think that would
:23:08. > :23:13.have had an impact on them level of migration. We also should have
:23:14. > :23:17.brought in the points -based system earlier. We did bring that in
:23:18. > :23:21.towards the end and it did restrict the level of low skilled migration
:23:22. > :23:24.because there are different kinds of migration. University students
:23:25. > :23:28.coming to Britain brings in billions of pounds of investment. On the
:23:29. > :23:32.other hand, low skilled migration can have a serious impact on the
:23:33. > :23:38.jobs market, pay levels and so on at the low skilled end of the labour
:23:39. > :23:41.market. We have to distinguish between different kinds of
:23:42. > :23:45.migration. You keep trying to excuse the figures by talking about the
:23:46. > :23:51.lack of transitional controls. Can we skip the chart I was going to go
:23:52. > :23:57.to? The next one. Under Labour, this is the source of where migrants came
:23:58. > :24:00.from. The main source was not the accession countries or the remainder
:24:01. > :24:05.of Europe. Overwhelmingly they were from the African Commonwealth, and
:24:06. > :24:10.the Indian subcontinent. Overwhelmingly, these numbers are
:24:11. > :24:13.nothing to do with transitional controls. You can control that
:24:14. > :24:19.immigration entirely because they are not part of the EU. Was that a
:24:20. > :24:24.mistake? First of all, the big increase was in the accession
:24:25. > :24:28.groups. Not according to the chart. In terms of the increase, the
:24:29. > :24:32.changes that happened. Secondly, in answer to the question that you just
:24:33. > :24:36.asked me, we should also have introduced the points -based system
:24:37. > :24:40.at an earlier stage. Thirdly there has been a big increase in the
:24:41. > :24:43.number of university students coming to Britain and they have brought
:24:44. > :24:47.billions of pounds of investment. At the moment the Government is not
:24:48. > :24:51.distinguishing, it is just using the figure of net migration. And that is
:24:52. > :24:55.starting to go up again, as you said in the introduction, but the problem
:24:56. > :24:59.is that it treats all kinds of migration is aimed. It does not
:25:00. > :25:04.address illegal immigration, which is a problem, but it treats
:25:05. > :25:08.university graduates coming to Britain in the same way as low
:25:09. > :25:13.skilled workers. If Labour get back into power, is it your ambition to
:25:14. > :25:17.bring down immigration? We have already said it is too high and we
:25:18. > :25:22.would support measures to bring it down. You would bring it down? There
:25:23. > :25:26.is something called student visas, which is not included in the
:25:27. > :25:31.figures, and it does not include university graduates, and it is a
:25:32. > :25:41.figure that has increased substantially in recent years. They
:25:42. > :25:44.come for short-term study but they do not even have to prove that they
:25:45. > :25:46.come for a college course. They do not even have to have a place to
:25:47. > :25:49.come. Those visas should be restricted to prevent abuse of the
:25:50. > :25:51.system and that is in line with a recommendation from the Inspectorate
:25:52. > :25:55.and that is the kind of practical thing that we could do. Can you give
:25:56. > :26:00.us a ballpark figure of how much immigration would fall? You have
:26:01. > :26:04.seen the mess that Theresa May has got into with her figures. She made
:26:05. > :26:27.a target that it is clear to me that she will not meet. I think that is
:26:28. > :26:30.right. She will not meet it. Can you give as a ballpark figure by which
:26:31. > :26:33.we can judge you? If she had been more sensible and taken more time to
:26:34. > :26:36.listen to experts and decide what measures should be targeted, then
:26:37. > :26:38.she would not be in this mess. You cannot give me a figure? She has
:26:39. > :26:41.chosen net migration. She has set a target, without ifs and buts. I
:26:42. > :26:44.think it is important not to have a massive gap between the rhetoric and
:26:45. > :26:47.reality. Not to make promises on numbers which are not responsible.
:26:48. > :26:52.OK, you won't give me a figure. Fine. Moving on to crime. 10,000
:26:53. > :26:57.front line police jobs have gone since 2010 but crime continues to
:26:58. > :27:00.fall. 7% down last year alone. When you told the Labour conference that
:27:01. > :27:06.you do not cut crime by cutting the police, you were wrong. I think the
:27:07. > :27:10.Government is being very complacent about what is happening to crime.
:27:11. > :27:13.Crime patterns are changing. There has been an exponential increase,
:27:14. > :27:22.and that is in the words of the police, in online crime. We have
:27:23. > :27:27.also seen, for example, domestic violence going up, but prosecutions
:27:28. > :27:32.dropping dramatically. There is a serious impact as a result of not
:27:33. > :27:36.having 10,000 police in place. You have talked about the exponential
:27:37. > :27:40.increase in online and economic crime. If those are the big growth
:27:41. > :27:46.areas, why have bobbies on the beat? That would make no difference. It is
:27:47. > :27:49.about an approach to policing that has been incredibly successful over
:27:50. > :27:53.many years, which Labour introduced, which is neighbourhood policing in
:27:54. > :27:57.the community is working hard with communities to prevent crime. People
:27:58. > :28:02.like to see bobbies on the beat but have you got any evidence that it
:28:03. > :28:07.leads to a reduction in crime? Interestingly, the Lords Stevens
:28:08. > :28:10.commission that we set up, they have reported this week and it has been
:28:11. > :28:16.the equivalent of a Royal commission, looking at the number of
:28:17. > :28:18.people involved in it. Their strong recommendation was that this is
:28:19. > :28:22.about preventing crime but also respectful law and order, working
:28:23. > :28:25.with communities, and so they strongly took the view with all of
:28:26. > :28:29.their expertise and the 30 different universities that they have involved
:28:30. > :28:33.with it, that on the basis of all that analysis, the right thing was
:28:34. > :28:39.to keep bobbies on the beat and not push them cars. Instinctively you
:28:40. > :28:45.would think it was true. More visible policing, less crime. But in
:28:46. > :28:48.all the criminology work, I cannot find the evidence. There is
:28:49. > :28:52.competing work about why there has been a 20 year drop in overall crime
:28:53. > :28:56.and everybody has different opinions on why that has happened. The point
:28:57. > :29:00.about neighbourhood policing is that it is broader than crime-fighting.
:29:01. > :29:07.It is about prevention and community safety. Improving the well-being of
:29:08. > :29:13.communities as well. Will you keep the elected Police Commissioners?
:29:14. > :29:18.Big sigh! What the report said was that the system is flawed. We raised
:29:19. > :29:23.concern about this at the beginning. You will remember at the elections,
:29:24. > :29:29.Theresa May's flagship policy, at the elections they cost ?100 million
:29:30. > :29:34.and there was 15% turnout. You have to have a system of accountability
:29:35. > :29:39.at the police. Three options were presented, all of which are forms.
:29:40. > :29:43.So you have to have reform. It is not whether to have reformed, it is
:29:44. > :29:54.which of those options is the best way to do it. The commission set out
:29:55. > :29:59.a series of options, and I thought that the preferable approach would
:30:00. > :30:03.be collaboration and voluntary mergers. We know they won't
:30:04. > :30:07.volunteer. There have been some collaboration is taking place. I
:30:08. > :30:13.think the issues with police and crime commissioners have fragmented
:30:14. > :30:17.things and made it harder to get collaboration between police
:30:18. > :30:22.forces. Everybody is asking this question, just before you go. What
:30:23. > :30:28.is it like living with a nightmare? Who does all the cooking, so I can't
:30:29. > :30:37.complain! Says Miliband people are wrong, he is a dream cook? He is!
:30:38. > :30:41.In a speech this week, Boris Johnson praised greed and envy as essential
:30:42. > :30:46.for economic progress, and that has got tongues wagging. What is the
:30:47. > :30:51.Mayor of London up to? What is his game plan? Does he even have a game
:30:52. > :31:00.plan and does he know if he has one? Flash photography coming up. Boris.
:31:01. > :31:03.In many ways I can leave it there. You'd know who I meant. And if you
:31:04. > :31:14.didn't, the unruly mop of blonde hair would tell you, the language.
:31:15. > :31:31.Ping-pong was invented on the dining tables of England. Somehow pulling
:31:32. > :31:35.off the ridiculous to the sublime. It is going to go zoink off the
:31:36. > :31:40.scale! But often having to speed away from the whiff-whaff of
:31:41. > :31:42.scandal. Boris, are you going to save your manage?
:31:43. > :31:45.There's always been a question about him and his as role as mayor and
:31:46. > :31:48.another prized position, as hinted to the Tory faithful this year at
:31:49. > :32:00.conference, discussing former French Prime Minister Alan Juppe. -- Alain
:32:01. > :32:05.Juppe. He told me he was going to be the mayor of Bordeaux. I think he
:32:06. > :32:09.may have been mayor well he was Prime Minister, it is the kind of
:32:10. > :32:17.thing they do in funds -- AvD in France. It is a good idea, if you
:32:18. > :32:22.ask me. But is it a joke? He is much more ambitious. Boris wants to be
:32:23. > :32:28.Prime Minister more than anything else. Perhaps more than he wants to
:32:29. > :32:36.be made of London. The ball came loose from the back of the scrum. Of
:32:37. > :32:42.course it would give great thing to have a crack at, but it is not going
:32:43. > :32:45.to happen. He might be right. First, the Conservatives have a leader,
:32:46. > :32:49.another Old Etonian, Oxford, Bullingdon chap and he has the job
:32:50. > :32:55.Boris might like a crack at. What do you do with a problem like Boris? It
:32:56. > :33:02.is one of the great paradoxes of Tory politics that for Boris Johnson
:33:03. > :33:05.to succeed, David Cameron must feel. Boris needs David Cameron to lose so
:33:06. > :33:09.that he can stand a chance of becoming loser. -- becoming leader.
:33:10. > :33:11.And disloyalty is punished by Conservatives. Boris knows the man
:33:12. > :33:14.who brought down Margaret Thatcher. Michael Heseltine, who Boris
:33:15. > :33:20.replaced as MP for Henley, never got her job. In 1986, she took on the
:33:21. > :33:31.member for Henley, always a risky venture. And why might he make such
:33:32. > :33:36.a jibe, because he's won two more elections than the PM. Conservatives
:33:37. > :33:51.like a winner. Boris, against Robert expectations, has won the Mayor of
:33:52. > :33:53.London job twice. -- public. He might've built a following with the
:33:54. > :33:57.grassroots but he's on shakier ground with many Tory MPs, who see
:33:58. > :34:04.him as a selfish clown, unfit for high office. And besides, he's not
:34:05. > :34:07.the only one with king-sized ambition, and Boris and George are
:34:08. > :34:16.not close, however much they may profess unity. There is probably
:34:17. > :34:21.some Chinese expression for a complete and perfect harmony. Ying
:34:22. > :34:24.and yang. But in plain black and white, if Boris has a plan, it's one
:34:25. > :34:29.he can't instigate, and if David Cameron is PM in 2016, it may not be
:34:30. > :34:36.implementable. He'd need a seat and it wouldn't be plain sailing if he
:34:37. > :34:40.did make a leadership bid. My leadership chances, I think I may
:34:41. > :34:45.have told you before, or about as good as my chances of ying
:34:46. > :34:49.reincarnated as a baked bean. Which is probably quite high. So if the
:34:50. > :34:55.job you want with Brown-esque desire is potentially never to be yours
:34:56. > :35:01.what do you do? He is, of course, an American citizen by birth. He was
:35:02. > :35:06.born in New York public hospital, and so he is qualified to be
:35:07. > :35:10.President of the United States. And you don't need an IQ over 16 to find
:35:11. > :35:16.that the tiniest bit scary. Giles Dilnot reporting. Helen Lewis,
:35:17. > :35:23.Janan Ganesh and Sam Coates are here. Is there a plan for Boris, and
:35:24. > :35:27.if so, what is it? I think the plan is for him to say what he thinks the
:35:28. > :35:33.Tory activist base wants to hear just now. He knows that in 18 months
:35:34. > :35:38.time they can disown it. I think he is wrong, the way the speech has
:35:39. > :35:44.played has a limited number of people. He has cross-party appeal.
:35:45. > :35:47.He has now reconfirmed to people that the Tories are the nasty party
:35:48. > :35:55.and they have been pretending to be modernised. Is it not the truth that
:35:56. > :36:00.he needs David Cameron to lose the 2015 election to become leader in
:36:01. > :36:06.this decade? It is very interesting watching his fortunes wax and wane.
:36:07. > :36:10.It always seems to happen in inverse proportion to how well David Cameron
:36:11. > :36:14.is doing in front of his own party. There is no small element of
:36:15. > :36:19.strategy about what we are doing here. The problem with Boris is that
:36:20. > :36:25.he's popular with the country, but not with the party's MPs and its
:36:26. > :36:29.hard-core supporters. This was an appeal to the grassroots this week.
:36:30. > :36:37.He is not the only potential candidate. If we were in some kind
:36:38. > :36:42.of circumstance where Boris was a runner to replace Mr Cameron, who
:36:43. > :36:51.with the other front the? I think it will skip a generation. The recent
:36:52. > :36:57.intake was ideological assertive. I do not buy the idea that it will be
:36:58. > :37:04.Jeremy Hunt against Michael Gove. I then, that generation will be
:37:05. > :37:11.tainted by being in government. It is interesting, what is he trying to
:37:12. > :37:14.pull? He is ideological. He does not believe in many things, but he
:37:15. > :37:19.believes in a few things quite deeply, and one is the idea of
:37:20. > :37:23.competition, both in business and academic selection. He has never
:37:24. > :37:33.been squeamish about expressing that. We do make mistakes sometimes,
:37:34. > :37:37.assuming he is entirely political. Look at all the Northern voters who
:37:38. > :37:44.will not vote for the Tories even though they are socially or economic
:37:45. > :37:50.the Conservatives. I do not think he helps. Who in the Tories would
:37:51. > :38:00.help? That is a tough question. To reason me has also been speaking to
:38:01. > :38:04.the hard right. -- Theresa May. I have been out with him at night. It
:38:05. > :38:09.is like dining with a film star. People are queueing up to speak to
:38:10. > :38:15.him. Educational selection is one of the few areas that he can offer. He
:38:16. > :40:24.has gone liberal on immigration, as are made of London would have to.
:40:25. > :40:36.We have moved quickly as a counsel...
:40:37. > :40:39.Councillor Darren Cooper is the Labour Leader of Sandwell Council in
:40:40. > :40:42.the Black Country, which has some of the most deprived communities in
:40:43. > :40:46.Britain. Including in Oldbury, where 400 jobs are to go, plus 550 others
:40:47. > :40:48.in Stoke`on`Trent, as part of the radical restructuring by the
:40:49. > :40:52.German`owned energy giant Npower. It's one of the UK's big six gas and
:40:53. > :40:54.electricity suppliers, who've all felt the heat lately because of
:40:55. > :40:58.inflation busting increases in charges. The firm say outsourcing to
:40:59. > :41:00.India what they call back office work, like checking metre readings
:41:01. > :41:03.against customer bills, will help them deliver the sort of service
:41:04. > :41:06.their customers deserve. The news brought swift reactions from our
:41:07. > :41:09.political leaders. This is one of the big six energy companies. They
:41:10. > :41:15.are making millions out of this. It seems as though bad news hits on
:41:16. > :41:26.tops of bad news. In more affluent areas there is a big distance
:41:27. > :41:30.between one side of government and the other. We have a real policy
:41:31. > :41:37.that the economy needs to grow and we need to attract jobs and their
:41:38. > :41:42.artist connectors between getting skills that are relating to jobs
:41:43. > :41:49.that we are trying to attract, which we have a real drive and passion to
:41:50. > :41:57.make it a fantastic future for our population. There are reasons to be
:41:58. > :42:01.more optimistic. We have heard that job creation is running faster in
:42:02. > :42:09.this part of the country than any other. 5.5%. Way ahead of the
:42:10. > :42:17.national average. Absolutely, but it is a fragile situation, and the
:42:18. > :42:20.slightest thing seems to tip people over the edge. That is what we have
:42:21. > :42:27.to be careful about. I want people back in work, people want to get
:42:28. > :42:33.back in work, and at the mouth of the welfare system.
:42:34. > :42:41.Coming up a little later: What's got 50,000 pages and weighs a tonne? The
:42:42. > :42:43.HS2 Bill, that's what, including supporting documents of course
:42:44. > :42:46.formally presented in Parliament last week. But how much political
:42:47. > :42:51.traction will it really deliver? That will be another of our talking
:42:52. > :42:54.points. Research exclusively for Sunday
:42:55. > :42:56.Politics Midlands shows millions of pounds set aside to help people
:42:57. > :43:04.struggling with acute financial hardship is lying untouched. The
:43:05. > :43:07.Government allocates the money for councils to help people who've
:43:08. > :43:11.fallen on hard times with life's essentials, including food, fuel,
:43:12. > :43:14.furniture, clothes and shoes. We asked 20 of our local authorities
:43:15. > :43:20.how much of this money they had used. Answer, in most places, a tiny
:43:21. > :43:35.fraction, even at a time of such hardship for so many people.
:43:36. > :43:39.Carrie and her two children moved to Staffordshire in the summer, with
:43:40. > :43:43.their pet rabbits. Desperately short of money she turned to her local
:43:44. > :43:49.council for help to buy furniture for her new home. I had absolutely
:43:50. > :44:08.nothing. I'll we had to wear the clothes on our backs. `` all we
:44:09. > :44:11.had. Carrie applied to Stafforshire's Local Crisis Support
:44:12. > :44:19.Scheme for help but received nothing. She had to turn to a
:44:20. > :44:22.charity for help. Local councils took over responsibility for
:44:23. > :44:25.providing this help from the government in April under the
:44:26. > :44:28.Welfare Reform Act. So how much has been spent on hand`outs from places
:44:29. > :44:31.like this so far? The 20 local councils we approached
:44:32. > :44:35.have ?21 million available this year. Since April they've handed out
:44:36. > :44:40.just over ?2 million in total, around 11% of the overall budget.
:44:41. > :44:45.Among the lowest was Staffordshire County Council, which Carrie applied
:44:46. > :44:49.to. It's given out less than 2% of the ?1.5 million it has available.
:44:50. > :44:54.The city council here in Stoke wasn't far behind. In Birmingham
:44:55. > :44:57.alone, ?7 million remains unclaimed. The help is not given as cash.
:44:58. > :45:01.Councils usually hand out food parcels or fuel vouchers. So what's
:45:02. > :45:04.going on here? Are councils being tight fisted? Do people not know
:45:05. > :45:11.about this scheme? And more importantly, what are the
:45:12. > :45:19.consequences? It is possible that the bar might have been set too high
:45:20. > :45:22.initially, and that has also lead to people not applying, because they
:45:23. > :45:26.don't think their circumstances are serious enough. But I think probably
:45:27. > :45:35.the most significant factor is the fact that virtually no local
:45:36. > :45:39.authority is offering cash. In Stoke, the council has handed out
:45:40. > :45:42.just under 3% of its budget, and knows there's a problem, so is
:45:43. > :45:47.desperately trying to promote its scheme better. I did ask that it was
:45:48. > :45:51.addressed and treated as a matter of urgency, and it was treated as a
:45:52. > :45:54.matter of urgency, and I am pleased to say it looks like we are now well
:45:55. > :46:00.on the road to delivering the service to a lot more people here.
:46:01. > :46:04.The government says local councils are best placed to deliver this
:46:05. > :46:12.scheme, and says it's spent two years preparing them. Meanwhile,
:46:13. > :46:14.people like Carrie are missing out. And since Phil McCann compiled those
:46:15. > :46:17.figures using the Freedom of Information Act, a number of
:46:18. > :46:19.authorities have accelerated their distribution of crisis welfare
:46:20. > :46:22.assistance. Birmingham say they have now used almost half their
:46:23. > :46:25.allocation. And we're also joined here today by Tim Nicholls from the
:46:26. > :46:32.campaigning charity, the Child Poverty Action Group. Given that
:46:33. > :46:35.there is such widespread hardship at the moment, it seems really quite
:46:36. > :46:45.surprising, the level that this is being passed on to the people who
:46:46. > :46:50.need it fast seems so slow. This money is given to the government by
:46:51. > :46:54.the `` from the government to local authorities for families in crisis.
:46:55. > :47:04.We think what is going on might partly be to do that `` with the
:47:05. > :47:08.quality of information provided by local authorities, but perhaps a
:47:09. > :47:12.more worrying thing, we asked governments to ring fence this money
:47:13. > :47:17.within council budgets, but they did not do that. It may be that in some
:47:18. > :47:24.places that money is being spirited away to other things. There is an
:47:25. > :47:30.obvious... The discretion of local authorities use it as an eight C
:47:31. > :47:33.fit. Do you think `` as they see fit. Do you think they are
:47:34. > :47:38.deliberate dragging their feet? Is good to hear that some councils are
:47:39. > :47:47.doing more to try and improve the delivery. I tried last week going to
:47:48. > :47:53.the website and signing up with two different councils will stop good
:47:54. > :47:59.points and not so good points for both. In Warwickshire, UK could be
:48:00. > :48:06.clearer on the `` you could be clearer on the website. We will
:48:07. > :48:10.bring the Council leaders back in on this in a second. Surely it makes
:48:11. > :48:15.sense from the point of the view of the government to localize this
:48:16. > :48:20.service, and if we are talking about switching from cash assistance to
:48:21. > :48:25.goods like food and fuel as shoes and clothes, it is better to
:48:26. > :48:29.decentralize its to local authorities to handle these sorts of
:48:30. > :48:34.materials. There are are pros and cons to this. One of the big
:48:35. > :48:37.difficulties at the moment is, because the government set to local
:48:38. > :48:45.authorities, you can do it your own way in every area, it becomes
:48:46. > :48:48.incredibly confusing. We are an advice providing organisation. It
:48:49. > :48:54.was easy for us before this because everybody knew you went to job
:48:55. > :48:58.centre plus. Now there are schemes all over the place and it is
:48:59. > :49:01.confusing for families. The government has said it has worked
:49:02. > :49:05.with families for two years to get them up to speed before the new
:49:06. > :49:12.system can end. Of course they needed to be rocked up to speeds. It
:49:13. > :49:16.does not mean it is the right choice. In Scotland, they decided at
:49:17. > :49:21.the Scottish Government that they would just take that budget and keep
:49:22. > :49:24.it as a whole and do it as a national scheme as the most
:49:25. > :49:30.effective way. Quite critical of your authorities among others, and
:49:31. > :49:35.looking at Sandwell's record, 12%, which, given the level of hardship
:49:36. > :49:42.we are talking about, you can understand what authorities like
:49:43. > :49:50.yours are being accused of being tightfisted. We have got a new
:49:51. > :49:54.scheme that has been introduced since April. Initially, it did not
:49:55. > :49:59.take off very well despite all of the really good advertising that we
:50:00. > :50:04.did with it. It is beginning to increase it now. The latest figures
:50:05. > :50:07.suggest there has been an increase. The bottom line is that we have been
:50:08. > :50:13.trying to target those people who are most vulnerable. It is a hand up
:50:14. > :50:20.not a hand`out. Meantime in Warwickshire, we have seen figures
:50:21. > :50:26.as little as 8%. I know that is a better off area, but that looks very
:50:27. > :50:30.tight, doesn't it? I think it has changed since the Freedom of
:50:31. > :50:38.Information. The figures would now be 20%. I think it is a changed
:50:39. > :50:42.scheme. It went through Works and pensions before and now it comes to
:50:43. > :50:47.local authorities. The fundamental changes, we are not handing out
:50:48. > :50:54.cash, we are handing out vouchers, and we are, in some cases,
:50:55. > :50:56.purchasing, that we do it through third parties, through charitable
:50:57. > :51:03.organisations and threw the voluntary sectors, and they are part
:51:04. > :51:10.of our vehicle of information. We have ring fenced this figure even
:51:11. > :51:15.Warwickshire. It is not going into the sinking file. Is the obvious
:51:16. > :51:19.suspicion that you are not being overzealous in getting the message
:51:20. > :51:27.across and you could squirrel it away and use it for your own
:51:28. > :51:31.purposes? We have had a pretty vigorous campaign since this was
:51:32. > :51:37.introduced. It should be a national scheme. Local authorities shouldn't
:51:38. > :51:42.be doing it. I thought you would want more responsibilities given to
:51:43. > :51:46.local communities. Yes, but the bottom line is, you get all these
:51:47. > :51:50.differing views and schemes all over the country, so somebody in a
:51:51. > :51:55.genuine crisis could go to work sure and get a different type of help as
:51:56. > :52:03.opposed to coming to Sandwell. It should be run nationally. Would you
:52:04. > :52:09.ring fence the money? We have already ring fenced the money. If it
:52:10. > :52:13.doesn't all get used up this year, we will use it in other ways to
:52:14. > :52:18.enhance those people who are desperately in need. Final word from
:52:19. > :52:23.you. What do you make of the answers? I would encourage them to
:52:24. > :52:28.do more. It is expensive to phone up with Sandwell. It cost me ?4 for the
:52:29. > :52:31.call. Both authorities have a barrier. You have to have been
:52:32. > :52:36.living in the borough for some time before you qualify. We could go on
:52:37. > :52:42.but we have to stop there. Thank you all for being with us.
:52:43. > :52:46.It paves the way for high speed trains between the Midlands and
:52:47. > :52:49.London. Laid end to end with its 50,000 pages of small print, the HS2
:52:50. > :52:54.Bill itself would probably stretch from Euston to Birmingham
:52:55. > :53:00.International. Not really of course, just Watford Junction. Coach loads
:53:01. > :53:07.of anti`HS2 campaigners descended on Westminster for a mass lobby of
:53:08. > :53:10.Parliament. But the Transport Secretary remains determined to
:53:11. > :53:15.press ahead, urged`on by some, but by no means all, of our local
:53:16. > :53:18.council leaders. The legislation allowing the
:53:19. > :53:24.government to build HS2 is more than 50,000 pages long, including its
:53:25. > :53:30.various support documents. As it went before Parliament, protesters
:53:31. > :53:34.gathered again to make their point. This is a bad policy and bad
:53:35. > :53:39.policies eventually fail. This is such a bad one, at some stage it is
:53:40. > :53:41.going to fall over. Campaigners from Solihull and parts of Warwickshire
:53:42. > :53:44.and Staffordshire, joined demonstrators from along the route
:53:45. > :53:49.from London to Birmingham and further north. We are here to stop
:53:50. > :53:55.this madness. ?50 billion on a railway line that nobody really
:53:56. > :53:57.needs. Tuesday, and the Transport Secretary
:53:58. > :54:00.appeared before the Transport Select Committee defending the high speed
:54:01. > :54:06.link, current price tag nearly ?43 billion. I believe it is absolutely
:54:07. > :54:12.essential for the long`term interests of the United Kingdom that
:54:13. > :54:15.is railway goes ahead. I am 100% confident that it is the right thing
:54:16. > :54:20.for the United Kingdom and it is the right thing for us to be able to
:54:21. > :54:25.impede in a global economy. `` compete. Hundreds of copies of
:54:26. > :54:29.the bill will now be distributed along the route. MPs will vote on it
:54:30. > :54:32.and if it's passed the government will then have the power to start
:54:33. > :54:37.buying up the necessary houses and land. Council leaders from the ten
:54:38. > :54:41.largest cities outside London have given full backing to the project,
:54:42. > :54:47.much to the delight of the Prime Minister, if not the campaigners,
:54:48. > :54:51.desperate to derail the HS2 Bill. Strong feelings all around. You
:54:52. > :54:57.heard your party colleague there say it is essential to the long`term
:54:58. > :55:02.interests of the UK. Your authority has come out against high`speed
:55:03. > :55:06.rail, so this is surely the point where you just look at the wider
:55:07. > :55:10.interests of Britain. Things have changed, haven't they? We're not
:55:11. > :55:16.talking about high`speed, we are about capacity. But we have started
:55:17. > :55:20.the whole debate and capacity, would we be looking at this route? Would
:55:21. > :55:28.we have changed the roots? We could have aligned it. It is too far down
:55:29. > :55:33.the tracks, if I could put it that way. This is the plan that there is
:55:34. > :55:37.and this is, capacity and all, this is the plan that we have and the
:55:38. > :55:42.government recommends. Absolutely true, but it goes through
:55:43. > :55:50.Warwickshire, 30 miles of work sure, and it doesn't stop at all. We get
:55:51. > :55:57.no benefit. The `` of Warwickshire. There are very good services through
:55:58. > :56:00.Coventry, rugby and on the other lines through Works Parkway. Whether
:56:01. > :56:06.we will see any change in that because of this... They say there
:56:07. > :56:12.are benefits to other services as well. We saw your party colleagues
:56:13. > :56:15.there in the line`up of city leaders. You have been taking him to
:56:16. > :56:22.task for his position on high`speed rail. I just point out that the big
:56:23. > :56:30.city leaders don't speak for us all. I am not opposed to the rail
:56:31. > :56:35.link that I am not particularly in favour of it and there are a couple
:56:36. > :56:40.of reasons for that. Can we really afford `` afford to spend ?42
:56:41. > :56:44.billion at the moment, when my local authority has already taken ?65
:56:45. > :56:51.billion out of its local budget, and I'm sure yours... The government
:56:52. > :56:55.points out that three times as much government spending on transport
:56:56. > :57:00.other than this link, even when this project goes ahead. That is all well
:57:01. > :57:03.and good, but you cannot get a bus in parts of Sandwell after six
:57:04. > :57:09.o'clock at night. I would suggest that we need to sort out our local
:57:10. > :57:13.transport infrastructure first, and I am also concerned about the impact
:57:14. > :57:18.that this will have on the rail net work. Locally, they are talking
:57:19. > :57:24.about capacity. Don't get me wrong. I am no expert on transport. But can
:57:25. > :57:30.we really afford it now? One of the points about this is, surely we know
:57:31. > :57:33.there is this the consensus at the top of British politics that
:57:34. > :57:37.realistically, the point should be that you just acknowledge that and
:57:38. > :57:42.concentrate on compensation for people affected by it and on the
:57:43. > :57:49.environmental and economic memorization of the effects of
:57:50. > :57:53.building. I have to look at how it impacts Warwickshire. We are going
:57:54. > :57:58.to be inundated with the impact of the construction over it many, many
:57:59. > :58:03.years. We are going to have communities on one side, and
:58:04. > :58:07.businesses. The impact on the economy of how they get to one side
:58:08. > :58:12.to the other, how do carers access people that they are supporting,
:58:13. > :58:17.this is going to have a cost. Our local authority, my taxpayers, I lot
:58:18. > :58:26.of money, a huge impact for many years. `` a lot of money. Thank you.
:58:27. > :58:30.Now, our regular round`up of the political week in the Midlands in 60
:58:31. > :58:32.seconds, brought to us this week by our Coventry and Warwickshire
:58:33. > :58:38.Drivetime presenter, Phil Upton. The region's aviation industry got a
:58:39. > :58:43.lift. 150 new jobs have been created at Birmingham airport in a huge new
:58:44. > :58:47.aircraft hangar. Not so good on the trains though.
:58:48. > :58:50.Delays on London Midland are up. Travel watchdogs say they should be
:58:51. > :58:52.stripped of the franchise if things don't improve.
:58:53. > :58:55.A police officer is to be charged with misconduct in a public office
:58:56. > :58:59.over the plebgate incident. Sutton Coldfield MP Andrew Mitchell told
:59:00. > :59:07.the media how the affair has had a huge impact on his life. I was spat
:59:08. > :59:10.at at the `` in the street and I lost my job after 25 years in
:59:11. > :59:19.Parliament asserting my constituents, my party and my
:59:20. > :59:22.country. `` serving my constituents. Demolition work has begun at the
:59:23. > :59:25.last deep coal mine in the Midlands. Daw Mill Colliery in Warwickshire
:59:26. > :59:27.closed in January after an underground fire. 650 jobs were
:59:28. > :59:30.lost. And a new survey from a group of
:59:31. > :59:34.urban local authorities says councils in the north and Midlands
:59:35. > :59:38.in are being hit much harder by budget cuts than those in the South.
:59:39. > :59:41.The Government dismiss these findings as scare`mongering, and a
:59:42. > :59:48.crude lobbying exercise. They say their funding arrangements do not
:59:49. > :59:51.favour anywhere over anywhere else. Yours is one of the urban
:59:52. > :59:57.authorities, and you have complained along with other counsel leaders.
:59:58. > :00:08.They say it is crude lobbying. That is a load of old Tosh if I am being
:00:09. > :00:14.honest. I speak it as I see things. The body that is working on this is
:00:15. > :00:18.one that many local authorities look up to. They are there statistics,
:00:19. > :00:24.the government has my own statistics point in this direction as well. You
:00:25. > :00:30.have said that the funding cuts are a fact of life. To that imply that
:00:31. > :00:34.you take a relaxed `` does that imply that you take a relaxed view
:00:35. > :00:39.on these cuts? I cannot spend money that I am not going to get. It is a
:00:40. > :00:44.huge challenge. None of us as a elected members entered this world
:00:45. > :00:48.to make these sort of stringent cuts that we will have to make, but it is
:00:49. > :00:55.happening and I have to face up to it. Warwickshire have always been in
:00:56. > :00:59.the lower quarter of funding. We will be following this. Thank you
:01:00. > :01:05.very much indeed. My thanks to Councillors Izzi Seccombe and Darren
:01:06. > :01:08.Cooper. This week will be dominated by the Chancellor's Autumn
:01:09. > :01:10.Statement, on Thursday, with George Osborne, we're told, in the role of
:01:11. > :01:13.Goldilocks. Neither overdoing the good news. Too hot. Nor being too
:01:14. > :01:16.gloomy about the long`term prospects, too cold.
:01:17. > :01:23.Midlands Today will be decoding what this all means for us here in our
:01:24. > :01:25.part of the country. That's at 6:30pm here on BBC
:01:26. > :01:41.touching on eugenics and things like that. That is all we have time for.
:01:42. > :01:46.Thank you. What rabbit has George Osborne got up his sleeve? And
:01:47. > :01:53.what's David Cameron up to in China? All questions for The Week Ahead. To
:01:54. > :02:01.help the panel led, we are joined by Kwasi Kwarteng, Tory MP. Welcome to
:02:02. > :02:05.the Sunday Politics. Why has the government been unable to move the
:02:06. > :02:09.agenda and to the broad economic recovery, and allowed the agenda to
:02:10. > :02:15.stay on Labour's ground of energy prices and living standards? Energy
:02:16. > :02:19.has been a big issue over the last few months but the autumn state and
:02:20. > :02:22.will be a wonderful opportunity to readdress where we are fighting the
:02:23. > :02:28.ground, the good economic news that we delivered. If you look at where
:02:29. > :02:32.Labour were earlier this year, people were saying they would they 5
:02:33. > :02:43.million people unemployed. They were saying that there should be a plan
:02:44. > :02:46.B. He is not in the Labour Party? Elements of the left were suggesting
:02:47. > :02:51.it. Peter Hain told me it would be up to 3 million people. Danny
:02:52. > :02:57.Blanchflower said it would be 5 million people. So we have got to
:02:58. > :03:03.get the economy back to the centre of the debate? Yes, the game we were
:03:04. > :03:05.playing was about the economy. That was the central fighting ground of
:03:06. > :03:11.the political debate. We were winning that battle. Labour have
:03:12. > :03:15.cleverly shifted it onto the cost of living. It is essential that the
:03:16. > :03:26.government, that George, talks about the economy. That has been its great
:03:27. > :03:29.success. I do not think this has been a week of admitting that Labour
:03:30. > :03:37.was right, plain cigarettes packaging, other issues. If you look
:03:38. > :03:43.at the big picture, where we are with the economy, we have the
:03:44. > :03:46.fastest growing economy in the G-7. Despite Labour's predictions, none
:03:47. > :03:53.of this has happened, none of the triple dip has happened. The British
:03:54. > :03:58.economy is on a good fitting. That is a good story for the government
:03:59. > :04:01.to bat on. You say that people have stopped talking about the economic
:04:02. > :04:07.recovery, but it is worse than that, people have stopped talking about
:04:08. > :04:11.the deficit? As long as people were talking about the deficit, the
:04:12. > :04:17.Tories were trusted. But people have forgotten about it. This country
:04:18. > :04:23.still spends ?100 billion more than it raises. Yes, I am of the view
:04:24. > :04:28.that the deficit, the national debt, is the biggest question facing
:04:29. > :04:31.this generation of politicians. You are right to suggest that the
:04:32. > :04:38.Conservative Party was strong on this. That head, not deficit, is not
:04:39. > :04:44.going to come down in the foreseeable future? It is rising.
:04:45. > :04:48.This is a test that George Osborne is not going to pass. We know what
:04:49. > :04:52.is coming in the Autumn Statement, it is lots of giveaways, paying for
:04:53. > :04:58.free school meals, paying for fuel duty subsidies. We are still talking
:04:59. > :05:04.about the cost of living, not changing it actively wider economy.
:05:05. > :05:11.There might be extra money for growth but it is not clear what will
:05:12. > :05:14.happen to that. If it is time for giveaways, let's speak about Labour.
:05:15. > :05:22.I have never been a fan of giveaways. Fiscal prudence is what
:05:23. > :05:27.our watchword should be. Look at the headlines. Each time, the deficit
:05:28. > :05:32.figures, the debt figures, were always worse than predicted. This
:05:33. > :05:38.year it will be significantly better. I think that is significant.
:05:39. > :05:44.Any kind of recovery is probably better than no recovery at all. When
:05:45. > :05:49.you look at this recovery, it is basically a consumer spending boom.
:05:50. > :05:56.Consumer spending is up, business investment is way down compared with
:05:57. > :06:02.2008, and exports, despite a 20% devaluation, our flat. Let's get one
:06:03. > :06:08.thing straight, it is a recovery. Any recovery is better than no
:06:09. > :06:14.recovery. Now we can have a debate about, technical debate about the
:06:15. > :06:19.elements of the recovery. It is not technical, it is a fact. There is
:06:20. > :06:25.evidence that there is optimism in terms of what are thinking...
:06:26. > :06:31.Optimism? If I am optimistic about the economy, I am more likely to
:06:32. > :06:37.spend money and invest in business. So far you have not managed that?
:06:38. > :06:41.Exports have not done well either? Exports are not a big section of the
:06:42. > :06:47.British economy. But of course, they are important. But given where we
:06:48. > :06:52.were at the end of last year, no economist was saying that we would
:06:53. > :07:00.be in this robust position today. That is true, in terms of the
:07:01. > :07:03.overall recovery. Now the PM loves to "bang the drum abroad for British
:07:04. > :07:06.business" and he's off to China this evening with a plane-load of British
:07:07. > :07:37.business leaders. And it's not the first time. Take a look at this.
:07:38. > :08:03.Well, you might not think exports unimportant, but clearly the Prime
:08:04. > :08:08.Minister and the Chancellor do. They are important, but they are not what
:08:09. > :08:13.is driving the growth at the moment. We used to talk about the need for
:08:14. > :08:17.export led recovery is, that is why the Prime Minister is going to
:08:18. > :08:22.China. Absolutely, and he's doing the right thing. Do we have any
:08:23. > :08:29.evidence that these tend of trips produce business? The main example
:08:30. > :08:34.so far is the right to trade the Chinese currency offshore. London
:08:35. > :08:39.has a kind of global primacy. London will be the offshore centre. Is that
:08:40. > :08:43.a good thing? I have no problem at all with this sort of policy. I do
:08:44. > :08:47.not think that Britain has been doing this enough compared with
:08:48. > :08:53.France and Germany in recent years. I am optimistic in the long term
:08:54. > :09:00.about this dish -- about British exports to China. China need machine
:09:01. > :09:04.tools and manufacturing products. In 20 years time, China will be buying
:09:05. > :09:10.professional groups, educational services, the things we excel at.
:09:11. > :09:16.All we need to do is consolidate our strengths, stand still and we will
:09:17. > :09:18.move forward. The worst thing we can do is reengineer the economy towards
:09:19. > :09:25.those services and away from something else. We have a lot of
:09:26. > :09:30.ground to make up, Helen? At one stage, it is no longer true, but at
:09:31. > :09:34.one stage you could say that we exported more to Ireland, a country
:09:35. > :09:43.of 4 million people, than we did to Russia, China, India, Brazil, all
:09:44. > :09:49.combined. I believe we form 1% of Chinese imports now. The problem is
:09:50. > :09:54.what you have to give up in exchange for that. It is a big problem for
:09:55. > :10:01.David Cameron's credibility that he has had to row back on his meeting
:10:02. > :10:05.with the Dalai llama. This trip, we have been in the deep freeze with
:10:06. > :10:11.China for a couple of years. This trip has come at a high cost. We
:10:12. > :10:15.have had to open up the City of London to Chinese banks without much
:10:16. > :10:19.scrutiny, we have had to move the date of the Autumn Statement, and
:10:20. > :10:23.there is no mention of human rights. It is awkward to deal with that, all
:10:24. > :10:31.in the name of getting up to where we were a few years ago. A month
:10:32. > :10:34.after strong anchor -- one month after Sri Lanka, where he apologised
:10:35. > :10:41.three human rights abuses, this is difficult to take. Do we have any
:10:42. > :10:45.idea what the Prime Minister hopes to do in China this time? I am not
:10:46. > :10:50.sure there is anything specific, but when you go to these countries,
:10:51. > :10:54.certainly in the Middle East China, they complain, why has the Prime
:10:55. > :10:59.Minister not come to see us? That is very important. High-level
:11:00. > :11:04.delegations from other countries go to these places because the addict
:11:05. > :11:16.-- because they are important export markets. You might look at the Prime
:11:17. > :11:21.Minister playing cricket over there, and wonder, what is that for? I do
:11:22. > :11:25.not mind the Prime Minister Rajoy cricket. This is a high visibility
:11:26. > :11:31.mission, chose that politicians in Britain care. You are part of the
:11:32. > :11:36.free enterprise group. It had all sorts of things on it like tax cuts
:11:37. > :11:43.for those on middle incomes or above the 40% bracket, tax cuts worth 16
:11:44. > :11:49.billion. You will get none of that on Thursday, we are agreed? No. But
:11:50. > :11:57.he does have two budgets between now and the election and if the fiscal
:11:58. > :12:00.position is using a little bit, he may have more leeway than it looked
:12:01. > :12:06.like a couple of months ago. Yes, from a free enter prise point of
:12:07. > :12:12.view, we have looked at the tax cuts that should be looked at. The 40p
:12:13. > :12:17.rate comes in at quite a low level for people who, in the south-east,
:12:18. > :12:24.do not feel particularly wealthy. They are spending a lot of money on
:12:25. > :12:28.commuting, energy bills. The Chancellor has been very open about
:12:29. > :12:33.championing this. He says that the 40p rate will kick in at a slightly
:12:34. > :12:37.higher rate. Labour had a bad summer and the opinion polls seem to be
:12:38. > :12:43.narrowing. Then they had a good hearty conference season. The best.
:12:44. > :12:48.Has the Labour lead solidified or increased the little, maybe up to
:12:49. > :12:52.eight points? If it is a good Autumn Statement, or the Tories start to
:12:53. > :12:58.narrow that lead by the end of the year? If they go into 2014 trailing
:12:59. > :13:03.by single digits, they cannot complain too much. That gives them
:13:04. > :13:08.18 months to chip away at Labour's lead. But do they do that chipping
:13:09. > :13:13.away by eight bidding Labour or do they let time take its course and
:13:14. > :13:17.let the economic recovery continue, maybe business investment joins
:13:18. > :13:21.consumer spending as a source of that recovery, and a year from now,
:13:22. > :13:29.household disposable income begins to rise? That is a better hope than
:13:30. > :13:31.engaging in a bidding war. Be assured, they will be highly
:13:32. > :13:35.political budgets. That's all for today. The Daily Politics is on BBC
:13:36. > :13:38.Two at midday all this week, except on Thursday when we'll start at
:13:39. > :13:41.10:45 to bring you live coverage and analysis of the Chancellor's Autumn
:13:42. > :13:45.Statement in a Daily Politics special for BBC Two and the BBC News
:13:46. > :13:48.Channel. Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.