:00:39. > :00:44.The morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. First, some Sunday
:00:45. > :00:49.morning cheer, if you are an MP, that is. You are set to get an 11%
:00:50. > :00:55.pay rise. The Chancellor has gone from zero to hero for some, who
:00:56. > :01:00.credit him for turning the economy around. We will be taking a fine
:01:01. > :01:05.tooth comb to his Autumn Statement. Should this man get a pay rise?
:01:06. > :01:12.Complete denial about the central facts... And 11% pay rise for Ed
:01:13. > :01:16.Balls? He was certainly working hard to be heard last Thursday. We will
:01:17. > :01:19.be reviewing his performance. What about this man? We will be joined by
:01:20. > :01:30.England's had on the capital, its politics and
:01:31. > :01:48.those who met him. With me, three scruffy eternal
:01:49. > :01:51.students. They would celebrate if they achieved a C+. But they are all
:01:52. > :01:54.we could afford and there will be no pay rise for them. They will be
:01:55. > :01:57.glued to an electronic device throughout the programme and if we
:01:58. > :02:02.are lucky they might stop there internet shopping and tweet
:02:03. > :02:08.something intelligent. But don't hold your breath. Janan Ganesh,
:02:09. > :02:12.Helen Lewis and Nick Watt. Last week, storms were battering Britain,
:02:13. > :02:16.the East Coast was hit by the worst tidal surge in more than a century,
:02:17. > :02:19.thousands of people had to be evacuated and Nelson Mandela died.
:02:20. > :02:27.The downed the news agenda was the small matter of George Osborne's
:02:28. > :02:28.Autumn Statement. His giveaways, his takeaways and his first opportunity
:02:29. > :02:42.to announce some economic cheer It might be winter outside, but in
:02:43. > :02:50.the studios it is awesome. Autumn Statement time. -- autumn. This is a
:02:51. > :02:53.moment of TV history. Normally when the Chancellor delivers these
:02:54. > :02:56.statements, he has to say the economy is actually a lot worse than
:02:57. > :03:00.everyone predicted. This time, he can stand up and say the economy is
:03:01. > :03:06.better than everybody predicted. A lot better.
:03:07. > :03:15.Britain is currently growing faster than any other major advanced
:03:16. > :03:20.economy. Faster than France, which is contracting, faster than Germany,
:03:21. > :03:23.faster even than America. At this Autumn Statement last year, there
:03:24. > :03:28.were repeated predictions that borrowing would go up. Instead,
:03:29. > :03:32.borrowing is down, and down significantly more than forecast.
:03:33. > :03:38.But George Osborne said the good numbers still mean more tough
:03:39. > :03:41.decisions. We will not give up in giving in our country's debts. We
:03:42. > :03:45.will not spend the money from lower borrowing. We will not squander the
:03:46. > :03:54.harder and games of the British people. -- hard earned gains. In
:03:55. > :03:59.other news, further cuts to government departments. The state
:04:00. > :04:04.pension age will increase in the 2040s, affecting people in their 40s
:04:05. > :04:08.now. There were some goodies, like discounted business rates for small
:04:09. > :04:12.businesses, free school meals for infants, favoured by the Lib Dems,
:04:13. > :04:16.and those marriage tax breaks below that by the Tories. But, as with all
:04:17. > :04:20.big fiscal events, it takes a while for the details to sink in.
:04:21. > :04:27.The marriage tax allowance is a long-standing commitment that he
:04:28. > :04:32.could not abandon. It does help those families were only one goes
:04:33. > :04:36.out to work. It does not go to higher rate taxpayers, I don't
:04:37. > :04:39.think. Perhaps it does, I can't remember. It makes me feel guilty, I
:04:40. > :04:45.am taking them very seriously, but... Shall I give you them? There
:04:46. > :04:50.is the Autumn Statement. Have that, a free gift from the Sunday
:04:51. > :04:56.Politics. Is there no limit to the generosity of the BBC?
:04:57. > :05:02.In the meantime, Twitter was awash with unflattering pictures of a
:05:03. > :05:09.red-faced Ed Balls giving his response. Some pictures were more
:05:10. > :05:13.than flattering than others. Is Ed Balls OK? Should we be worrying
:05:14. > :05:17.about him? He looks very stressed. There is nothing to worry about in
:05:18. > :05:20.terms of Ed balls and his analysis. He and Ed Miliband have been setting
:05:21. > :05:28.the pace in terms of the focus on the living standards crisis. It was
:05:29. > :05:32.very telling that there was not a mention of living standards last
:05:33. > :05:36.time, we got 12 mentions this time. Never mind what he was saying, by
:05:37. > :05:43.now everybody has a copy of the all-important paperwork. Time to
:05:44. > :05:47.hand over to number cruncher extraordinaire Paul Johnson from the
:05:48. > :05:50.Institute for Fiscal Studies. Of course it means that things are
:05:51. > :05:53.significantly better this year and next than we thought they would be
:05:54. > :05:57.just nine months ago. That has got to be good news. But it is also
:05:58. > :06:01.worth looking at the growth figures a few years out. They have been
:06:02. > :06:09.revised down a little bit. The reason is, the view of the office of
:06:10. > :06:12.budget response ability is that the long run has not really changed very
:06:13. > :06:16.much. We are getting a bit more growth now, but their view is that
:06:17. > :06:19.it is at the cost of a little bit of the growth we will expect in the
:06:20. > :06:24.years after the next general election. As the day draws to a
:06:25. > :06:26.close, the one place there has definitely been no growth is the
:06:27. > :06:34.graphics budget of my colleague, graphics budget of my colleague
:06:35. > :06:39.Robert Preston. It's as good as it gets these days, I don't think the
:06:40. > :06:47.viewers will mind. It's very Sunday Politics, if I might say. That is
:06:48. > :06:52.very worrying. Was this a watershed for George
:06:53. > :06:56.Osborne? Was it a watershed for Ed Balls? We can all make the case that
:06:57. > :07:00.it is the wrong sort of recovery, a consumer led recovery. People are
:07:01. > :07:04.spending money they don't have. At the end of the day, it for George
:07:05. > :07:09.Osborne, it is growth, the first time he has been able to talk about
:07:10. > :07:13.growth. It allows him to control the baseline, the fiscal debate for the
:07:14. > :07:16.next generation. For Ed Balls, nearly not a good performance. But
:07:17. > :07:21.don't write this man off. Judging by Twitter, Iain Dale, no friend of it
:07:22. > :07:30.all is, said he did a good interview this morning on a rival TV channel.
:07:31. > :07:33.I feel the fact that the Tories hate Ed Balls so passionately is probably
:07:34. > :07:39.a good reason that they should hang onto him, in that Labour sends his
:07:40. > :07:46.effectiveness. May be the Tories hope that they hold on to him as
:07:47. > :07:48.well? A lot of people shouting at someone and mocking their speech
:07:49. > :07:52.impediment, that is politics that doesn't make me want to engage. The
:07:53. > :07:57.takeaway will be lots of people thinking that none of these people
:07:58. > :08:01.are people they like. Who is the main heckler on the Labour front
:08:02. > :08:05.bench West remarked I suppose he can't cast any stones. It would be
:08:06. > :08:09.easier to sympathise with him, if it were not that David Cameron went
:08:10. > :08:15.through a similar situation and John Bercow did not step in to stop the
:08:16. > :08:23.wall of noise. It was guaranteed a good happen to a Labour politician.
:08:24. > :08:30.It's painful to remove him because he had a Parliamentary following and
:08:31. > :08:35.he will kick up a fuss. I think he's much more pragmatic on issues like
:08:36. > :08:40.business than Ed Miliband. I'm told he wasn't keen on the energy price
:08:41. > :08:45.freeze. The problem with Ed Balls, to have the first words that you
:08:46. > :08:49.say, the Chancellor is in denial, after he is presiding over growth,
:08:50. > :08:53.it means nobody is listening to you. Who would replace him? Certainly not
:08:54. > :08:57.Alistair Darling, the side of the referendum and even afterwards. Ed
:08:58. > :09:01.Balls did get a roasting in the press and on Twitter. He seemed to
:09:02. > :09:05.disappear from public view following the Autumn Statement. But a little
:09:06. > :09:07.bird tells me he managed one interview this morning before he
:09:08. > :09:12.went off to an all-important piano recital this afternoon. Watch out,
:09:13. > :09:16.Jools Holland, he could be after your job. How bad was his
:09:17. > :09:22.performance on Thursday? Here is the Shadow Chancellor in action. The
:09:23. > :09:28.Chancellor is incomplete denial about the central facts that are
:09:29. > :09:38.defining this government in office. He used to say he would balance the
:09:39. > :09:44.books in 2015. Now he wants us to congratulate him for saying he will
:09:45. > :09:50.do it in 2019, Mr Speaker. With this government, it is clearly not just
:09:51. > :09:58.the badgers that move the goalposts. No mention of the universal credit
:09:59. > :10:07.in the statement. IDS, in deep shambles, Mr Speaker. Chris Leslie
:10:08. > :10:14.is the Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury. He is Ed Balls's deputy,
:10:15. > :10:19.in other words. Why do more and more of your Labour colleagues think that
:10:20. > :10:23.your boss is below the water line? I'm not sure I accept the premise of
:10:24. > :10:26.your suggestion. I don't think my colleagues believe that George
:10:27. > :10:30.Osborne has a superior argument. I Osborne has a superior argument I
:10:31. > :10:34.think Ed Balls will certainly trying his best, loud and clear, to make
:10:35. > :10:37.the case there is a cost of living crisis in this country and the
:10:38. > :10:42.Chancellor doesn't understand this. That was essentially the heat of the
:10:43. > :10:46.debate on the Autumn Statement day. One leading Labour MPs said to me
:10:47. > :10:50.that Ed Balls is always looking back, fixated with the rear-view
:10:51. > :10:55.mirror, that was the exact quote. A Labour MP told Sky News, Labour has
:10:56. > :11:00.a strong argument to make, unfortunately it was not made well
:11:01. > :11:09.in the chamber today. Quoting the Daily Mail, this is two poor
:11:10. > :11:15.performances. A quote that I can't use because it uses too many four
:11:16. > :11:19.letter words. Baroness Armstrong, speaking at Progress, a former
:11:20. > :11:22.Labour Cabinet minister, we are not sufficiently concerned about public
:11:23. > :11:26.spending, how we would pay for what we are talking about. Quite a
:11:27. > :11:32.battering? There were two sets of quotes you were giving. The couple
:11:33. > :11:36.were about the strategy for tackling public expenditure. I think it's
:11:37. > :11:41.fair that we talk about that. The rest were pretty unattributed,
:11:42. > :11:54.nameless sources. You have never given and of the record briefing? We
:11:55. > :11:56.have conversations off camera, but I don't think you have a wealth of
:11:57. > :12:02.evidence to say that somehow Ed Balls's arguments were wrong. He was
:12:03. > :12:06.making the point that, ultimately, it is a government that does not
:12:07. > :12:10.have its finger on the pulse about what most of your viewers are
:12:11. > :12:15.concerned about, that wages are being squeezed and prices are
:12:16. > :12:17.getting higher and higher. You have had time to study the Autumn
:12:18. > :12:27.Statement. What part of it does Labour disagree with? It is a very
:12:28. > :12:30.big question. I think the overall strategy the Autumn Statement is
:12:31. > :12:35.setting out does not deal with the fundamental problems in the economy.
:12:36. > :12:38.What measures do you disagree with? A lot of it is the absence of
:12:39. > :12:40.measures we would have put in if we were doing the Autumn Statement.
:12:41. > :12:41.measures we would have put in if we were doing the Autumn Statement If
:12:42. > :12:45.you are going to deal with the cost of living crisis, you have got to
:12:46. > :12:47.get productivity levels up in our society. One of the best ways of
:12:48. > :12:51.doing that is on infrastructure We doing that is on infrastructure. We
:12:52. > :12:56.believe in bringing forward 's investment and housing, getting some
:12:57. > :13:03.of the fundamentals right in our economy. By planting, the business
:13:04. > :13:12.lending we have to do. We have seen a lamentable failing. There are big
:13:13. > :13:14.structural reforms that we need. Ultimately, the public are concerned
:13:15. > :13:19.about the cost of living crisis. about the cost of living crisis
:13:20. > :13:23.That has got to be childcare help, a 10p starting rate of tax. Above
:13:24. > :13:29.all, and energy price freeze, which still this government are refusing
:13:30. > :13:35.to do. On Friday, you told me you supported the principle of a welfare
:13:36. > :13:37.cap. But you change bling claim the Chancellor's cap included pensions.
:13:38. > :13:43.You have now seen the figures, and it does not include pensions,
:13:44. > :13:48.correct? We do want a welfare cap. The government have said they are
:13:49. > :13:52.going to put more detail on this in the March budget. But it does not
:13:53. > :13:58.include pensions? We think they have a short term approach to the welfare
:13:59. > :14:02.cap. They put in some pension benefits. The state pension is not
:14:03. > :14:08.in the short-term plan because, as we believe, a triple lock is a good
:14:09. > :14:11.idea. In the longer term, if you are talking about structural welfare
:14:12. > :14:14.issues, you do have to think about pensions because they have to be
:14:15. > :14:19.sustainable if we are living longer. I think that is about the
:14:20. > :14:24.careful management. Let me show you what Ed Balls said on this programme
:14:25. > :14:28.at the start of the summer. As for pensioners, I think this is a real
:14:29. > :14:32.question. George Osborne is going to announce his cap in two weeks time.
:14:33. > :14:37.I don't know if he will exclude pension spending or including. Our
:14:38. > :14:41.plan is to include it. Pension spending would be included in the
:14:42. > :14:45.welfare cap? That is our plan, exactly what I just said. Over the
:14:46. > :14:51.long-term, if you have a serious welfare cap structural welfare
:14:52. > :14:54.issues, over 20, 30, 40 year period, you can't say that we will
:14:55. > :15:01.not work and pensions as part of that. Pensions would be part of the
:15:02. > :15:05.Labour cap? In the longer term. What is the longer term? If you win 015?
:15:06. > :15:11.is the longer term? If you win 2015? We want to stick with the triple
:15:12. > :15:14.lock on the pension, that is the Government approach to their
:15:15. > :15:18.short-term welfare cap. In the longer term, for example, on the
:15:19. > :15:24.winter fuel allowance, we should not necessarily be... There are lots of
:15:25. > :15:27.benefits... I understand that, I am talking about the basic state
:15:28. > :15:31.pension, is that part of your welfare cap or not? In a 20, 30,
:15:32. > :15:34.pension, is that part of your welfare cap or not? In a 20, 30 40
:15:35. > :15:45.year frame... Even you will not be around in government, then. You are
:15:46. > :15:48.writing me off already. You have to focus on welfare changes, pensions
:15:49. > :15:52.have to be affordable as part of that. It's dangerous to say, well,
:15:53. > :15:55.if you are going to have a serious welfare cap, we should not look at
:15:56. > :16:02.pensions cost. It would be irresponsible. Will pensions be part
:16:03. > :16:05.of the cap from 2015 until 2020 if Labour is in power? In our long term
:16:06. > :16:07.Labour is in power? In our long-term cap we have to make sure... I'm
:16:08. > :16:15.talking about 2015-16. We haven t talking about 2015-16. We haven't
:16:16. > :16:21.seen the proposition the Government has put before us.
:16:22. > :16:31.You claim people of ?1600 worse off under the coalition. That is true
:16:32. > :16:36.when you compare to pay and prices. Can you confirm that calculation
:16:37. > :16:41.does not include the ?700 tax cut from raising the income tax
:16:42. > :16:46.threshold, huge savings on mortgages because of low interest or the
:16:47. > :16:49.freezing of council tax? It doesn't include the tax and benefit
:16:50. > :16:55.changes. If you do want to look at those, last year, the ISS said they
:16:56. > :16:59.could be making people worse off. It might not include those factors.
:17:00. > :17:04.could be making people worse off. It might not include those factors The
:17:05. > :17:09.VAT increase, tax credit cuts, child benefit cuts, they all add up. My
:17:10. > :17:12.understanding is that the ISS figures have said people are ?891
:17:13. > :17:18.figures have said people are ?8 1 worse off if you look at the tax and
:17:19. > :17:24.benefit changes since 2010. You have to look at wages and prices. The ISS
:17:25. > :17:28.confirmed our approach was broadly the right way of assessing what is
:17:29. > :17:35.happening. The Chancellor was saying, real household disposable
:17:36. > :17:41.incomes are rising. He is completely out of touch. Can you sum up the
:17:42. > :17:46.macro economic policy for Labour? Invest in the future, make sure we
:17:47. > :17:49.have the right approach for the long-term politicking. Tackle the
:17:50. > :17:52.cost of living crisis people are facing.
:17:53. > :17:59.Now, let's talk to the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, Sajid
:18:00. > :18:05.Javid. Discovery, underpinned by rising
:18:06. > :18:10.house prices, increasing personal debt, do you accept that is
:18:11. > :18:15.unsustainable? I accept the OBE are also said the
:18:16. > :18:24.reason why this country is facing more these challenges -- OBR.
:18:25. > :18:30.That is because we went through a Labour recession, the worst we have
:18:31. > :18:36.seen in 100 years. But do you accept that a recovery underpinned by these
:18:37. > :18:41.things I have just read out isn't sustainable? We set out a long-term
:18:42. > :18:47.plan for recovery, and again this week. We have shown with the tough
:18:48. > :18:51.decisions we have made already, the country can enjoy a recovery. There
:18:52. > :18:58.are still a lot of difficult decisions. The biggest risk are
:18:59. > :19:05.Labour's plans. The March projections work at for those --
:19:06. > :19:07.Labour's plans. The March projections work at for those - for
:19:08. > :19:12.both business investment and exports. Suddenly it is expected to
:19:13. > :19:17.rise 5% next year, a 10% turnaround in investment. How is it credible? I
:19:18. > :19:22.have been in business before politics. Any business person
:19:23. > :19:27.listening will know, when you have gone through a recession, the
:19:28. > :19:32.deepest in 100 years, it will hit investment, profits, you can't make
:19:33. > :19:35.plans again until you have confidence in the economy. That is
:19:36. > :19:45.what this country is seeing now under this government. This is an
:19:46. > :19:50.assumption made independently. The fall in business investment is
:19:51. > :19:57.because of the recession. The forecast increases, 5% next year,
:19:58. > :20:03.and so on, it is based on the independent forecast. Based on fact.
:20:04. > :20:11.If you look at the investment plans of companies, this week, the
:20:12. > :20:16.Chancellor went to JCB, Jaguar Land Rover has plans to create more
:20:17. > :20:20.jobs, these investment plans are coming through now because of the
:20:21. > :20:23.confidence generated by this government, such as the cut in
:20:24. > :20:31.corporation tax which Labour would increase. Are the export forecasts
:20:32. > :20:37.more credible? The 15 years, our share of world trade decline.
:20:38. > :20:44.Suddenly starting next year, it stops falling. That's not credible.
:20:45. > :20:51.I worked in finance the 20 years. I have yet to find any forecast which
:20:52. > :20:56.is fully right. Under Labour, we would have forecasts made by Gordon
:20:57. > :21:00.Brown who would announce he would hit all his targets. Now we have an
:21:01. > :21:08.independent system. Do you accept, if exports or
:21:09. > :21:13.business investment do not pick up, then a purely consumer led recovery
:21:14. > :21:17.is not sustainable? We need more than a consumer led recovery. We
:21:18. > :21:24.need consumer investment to go up. On Xbox, it is noticeable that
:21:25. > :21:26.experts are primarily down because the markets we trade with, the
:21:27. > :21:31.eurozone markets, are depressed. eurozone markets, are depressed
:21:32. > :21:37.Many have just come out of recession. Or they are still in
:21:38. > :21:41.recession. If you look at exports to non-EU countries, they are up 30%.
:21:42. > :21:48.non-EU countries, they are up 3 %. 120% to China. 100% to Russia.
:21:49. > :21:56.Will you keep the triple lock for the state pension beyond 2015? Yes,
:21:57. > :22:00.long term. That's why it is not part of our welfare cap. Chris Leslie
:22:01. > :22:09.cannot answer that question. It is straightforward.
:22:10. > :22:15.House prices are now rising ten times faster than average earnings.
:22:16. > :22:21.That's not good. House prices are rising, partly reflecting recovery.
:22:22. > :22:25.Ten times faster than average earnings, how can people afford to
:22:26. > :22:30.buy homes if it carries on? What you would hope, this is the evidence, if
:22:31. > :22:37.you look at the plans of the month companies, they are planning new
:22:38. > :22:41.homes which will mean that, as this demand spurs that investment, more
:22:42. > :22:45.homes will come about. We need to give people the means to buy those
:22:46. > :23:34.homes. We have introduced the help to buy scheme. I accept the OBR says
:23:35. > :23:49.it will start rising again but as household debt rises again Petr Cech
:23:50. > :23:55.reduces, -- as household debt reduces, we need to make sure there
:23:56. > :23:59.are checks in place. Wages have not been rising in real terms for quite
:24:00. > :24:14.some time. Over the next five years, even as the economy grows, by about
:24:15. > :24:21.15% according the OBR to the OBR -- but people will not benefit. These
:24:22. > :24:26.hard-working families will not share in the recovery. What is the best
:24:27. > :24:31.way to help those families? The government doesn't set wages. What
:24:32. > :24:40.we can do is influence the overall economy. We don't have a magic
:24:41. > :24:44.lever. Wages have been stagnating for five years. When will people get
:24:45. > :24:51.a proper salary? The best way for wage growth is a growing economy,
:24:52. > :24:56.more jobs. We have more people employed in Britain today than at
:24:57. > :25:02.any time in our history. The biggest risk to recovery is if we let Labour
:25:03. > :25:06.into the Treasury with more spending and more debt. Which got us into
:25:07. > :25:13.this trouble. By whatever measure you care to choose, would people be
:25:14. > :25:20.better off come the 20 15th election than they were in 2010? Yes, they
:25:21. > :25:25.will be. Look at jobs. Already more people employed than at any other
:25:26. > :25:29.time in history. Will they be better off? The best way for anyone to
:25:30. > :25:36.raise their living standards is access to a growing job market. But
:25:37. > :25:39.will they be better off? I believe people will be. Compared to 2010.
:25:40. > :25:44.people will be. Compared to 201 . Yes. In terms of take-home pay. This
:25:45. > :25:51.is a credible measure. Now, what do you think the Education
:25:52. > :25:54.Secretary, Michael Gove, was like at school? Hard-working? Hand always
:25:55. > :25:57.up? Top of the class? Well, if he wasn't passionate about education
:25:58. > :26:05.then, he is now. In fact, since he took office, it seems he hasn't
:26:06. > :26:08.stopped working very hard indeed. When the coalition came to power,
:26:09. > :26:11.Michael Gove evoked Mao, saying they were on a long march to reform
:26:12. > :26:17.education. Just like Mao, they faced a baby boom, so pledged ?5 billion
:26:18. > :26:22.for new school places. They extended Labour's academy programme. There's
:26:23. > :26:24.now about 3,000 in England. But then, they marched even further
:26:25. > :26:27.creating free schools run by parents, funded by taxpayers. 174
:26:28. > :26:33.parents, funded by taxpayers. 1 4 have opened so far. The schools
:26:34. > :26:36.admission code was changed, to give parents more choice.
:26:37. > :26:40.And a pupil premium was introduced, currently, an extra ?900 funding for
:26:41. > :26:44.each disadvantaged child. An overhaul of the national
:26:45. > :26:48.curriculum provoked criticism. Chairman Gove mocked detractors as
:26:49. > :26:54."bad academia". But exam reforms didn't quite go to plan. Although
:26:55. > :26:58.GCSEs got harder, plans to replace A-levels had to be abandoned.
:26:59. > :27:04.Ultimately, the true test of these reforms will be what happens in the
:27:05. > :27:07.classroom. The person in charge of making sure those classrooms are up
:27:08. > :27:09.to scratch in England is the Chief Inspector Of Schools, head of
:27:10. > :27:15.Ofsted, Michael Wilshaw, who joins me now.
:27:16. > :27:20.Over the past 15 years, we have doubled spending on schools even
:27:21. > :27:25.allowing for inflation. By international standards, we are
:27:26. > :27:30.stagnating, why? I said last year that mediocrity had settled into the
:27:31. > :27:41.system. Too many children were coasting in schools, which is why we
:27:42. > :27:47.changed the grading structure, we removed that awful word,
:27:48. > :27:50.satisfactory. Saying that good is now the only acceptable standard and
:27:51. > :27:54.schools had a limited time in which to get to that. We are seeing
:27:55. > :27:58.gradually, it is difficult to say this in the week we have had the
:27:59. > :28:06.OECD report. Things have gradually improved. I will come onto that in a
:28:07. > :28:10.minute. Explain this. International comparisons show us flat-lining or
:28:11. > :28:16.even falling in some subjects, including science. For 20 years our
:28:17. > :28:20.domestic exam results just got better and better. Was this a piece
:28:21. > :28:24.of fiction fed to us by the educational establishment, was there
:28:25. > :28:30.a cover-up? There is no question there has grade inflation. I speak
:28:31. > :28:36.as an ex-headteacher who saw that in examinations. Perceptual state is
:28:37. > :28:46.actually doing something about that. Most good heads will say that is
:28:47. > :28:51.about time. We have to be credible. Do politicians and educationalists
:28:52. > :28:55.conspire in this grade inflation? It might suit politicians to say things
:28:56. > :28:59.are going up every year. As a head, I knew a lot of the exams youngsters
:29:00. > :29:08.were sitting were not up to scratch. The latest OECD study places us 36th
:29:09. > :29:14.for maths, 23rd reading, slipping down to 21st in science. Yet,
:29:15. > :29:19.Ofsted, your organisation, designates 80% of schools as good or
:29:20. > :29:24.outstanding. That's another fiction. This year, we have. If we see this
:29:25. > :29:27.level of progress, it has been a remarkable progress over the last
:29:28. > :29:34.years since we changed our grading structure, then... In a year,
:29:35. > :29:39.absolutely. We have better teachers coming into our school system.
:29:40. > :29:42.Better leaders. Better schools. The big challenge for our country is
:29:43. > :29:44.making sure that progress is maintained which will eventually
:29:45. > :29:54.translate into better outcomes. These figures are pretty much
:29:55. > :29:59.up-to-date. Are you saying within a year 80% of the schools are good
:30:00. > :30:04.enough? All of the schools we upgraded have had better grades in
:30:05. > :30:08.GCSE and grade 2. We have to make sure that is maintained. The
:30:09. > :30:12.Government has based its reforms on similar reforms in Sweden. In
:30:13. > :30:16.opposition they were endlessly going to Stockholm to find out how it was
:30:17. > :30:23.done. Swedish schools are doing even worse than ours in the tables. Why
:30:24. > :30:28.are we copying failure? The secretary of state believes, and I
:30:29. > :30:33.actually believe, as somebody who has come from an academy model, that
:30:34. > :30:36.if you hand power and resources, you hand autonomy to the people on the
:30:37. > :30:41.ground, to the people in the classroom, in the corridors, in the
:30:42. > :30:46.playgrounds, things work. If you allow the great monoliths that used
:30:47. > :30:51.to have responsibility for education in the past to take control again,
:30:52. > :30:54.you will see a reverse in standards. You have got to actually empower
:30:55. > :31:00.those people that make the difference. That is why autonomy and
:31:01. > :31:02.freedom is important. We spent a lot of money moving what were local
:31:03. > :31:07.authority schools to become academies and new free school czar
:31:08. > :31:10.being set up as well. When the academies are pretty much the same
:31:11. > :31:14.level of autonomy, the free school is maybe a little bit more, the
:31:15. > :31:19.evidence we have had so far is that they don't really perform any better
:31:20. > :31:24.than local authority schools? Indeed, Encore GCSE subjects, they
:31:25. > :31:27.might even be doing worse? These are early days. We will say more about
:31:28. > :31:32.this on weapons they when we produce the annual report. The sponsored
:31:33. > :31:36.academies that took over the worst schools in the country, in the most
:31:37. > :31:41.difficult circumstances, in the most disadvantaged communities, are doing
:31:42. > :31:44.much better now. What about GCSE? They are doing GCSE equivalents, the
:31:45. > :31:50.They are doing GCSE equivalents the lass academic subjects question my
:31:51. > :31:54.cull OK, but they are doing better than previous schools. If you look
:31:55. > :32:07.at the top performing nations in the world, they focus on the quality of
:32:08. > :32:10.teaching. The best graduates coming to education. They professionally
:32:11. > :32:14.develop them. They make sure they spot the brightest talents and get
:32:15. > :32:18.them into positions as soon as possible. We have got to do the same
:32:19. > :32:24.if we are going to catch up with those jurisdictions. This isn't just
:32:25. > :32:28.a British problem. It seems to be a European problem. The East Asian
:32:29. > :32:30.countries now dominate the top of the tables. What's the most
:32:31. > :32:36.important lesson we should learn from East Asia? Attitudes to work.
:32:37. > :32:43.We need to make sure that we invest in good teachers, good leaders. We
:32:44. > :32:44.have to make sure that students have the right attitudes to work. It s
:32:45. > :32:44.have to make sure that students have the right attitudes to work. It's no
:32:45. > :32:49.the right attitudes to work. It s no good getting good people into the
:32:50. > :32:52.classroom and then seeing them part of teaching by bad behaviour,
:32:53. > :33:00.disaffected youngsters and poor leadership. We see young teachers
:33:01. > :33:05.doing well for a time and then being put off teaching and leaving from
:33:06. > :33:08.that sort of culture in our schools. Are you a cheerleader for government
:33:09. > :33:12.education policy rather than independent inspectors? I am
:33:13. > :33:19.independent, Ofsted is independent. I believe we are saying the right
:33:20. > :33:22.things on standards. The Association of teachers and lecturers say you
:33:23. > :33:26.are an arm of government. The NUT has called for your resignation.
:33:27. > :33:30.Another wants to abolish or Inspectorate. Have you become a
:33:31. > :33:36.pariah amongst teaching unions? If we are challenging schools to become
:33:37. > :33:41.better, that is our job, we will carry on doing that. I am not going
:33:42. > :33:44.to preside over the status quo. We will challenge the system to do
:33:45. > :33:48.better, we will challenge schools and colleges to do better. We will
:33:49. > :33:52.also challenge government when we think they are going wrong. Many
:33:53. > :33:55.people in the education establishment think your primary
:33:56. > :34:02.purpose is to do the Government's bidding by shepherding schools into
:34:03. > :34:07.becoming academies. Not true at all. You are a big supporter of
:34:08. > :34:10.academies? Yes, I believe the people that do the business in schools are
:34:11. > :34:15.the people that are free to do what is necessary to raise standards. I
:34:16. > :34:23.am a big supporter of autonomy in the school system. But where we see
:34:24. > :34:28.academies Vale, where we see free schools fail, we will say so. The
:34:29. > :34:34.study does not find much evidence that competition and choice raise
:34:35. > :34:37.standards, but it does go with you and say that strong school
:34:38. > :34:41.leadership, coupled with autonomy, can make a difference. Can somebody
:34:42. > :34:46.with no experience in education be in charge of a school? A lot of hot
:34:47. > :34:49.air has been expounded on the issue of whether teachers should be
:34:50. > :34:52.qualified or not. If qualified teacher status was the gold
:34:53. > :35:01.standard, why is it that one in three teachers, one in three lessons
:35:02. > :35:05.that will observe are not good enough. Taught by qualified
:35:06. > :35:09.teachers. I've not yet met a headteacher that has not appointed
:35:10. > :35:13.by qualified staff when they cannot get qualified teachers. Their job is
:35:14. > :35:17.to make sure they get accredited as soon as possible and come up to
:35:18. > :35:22.scratch in the classroom. Do you support the use of unqualified
:35:23. > :35:26.teachers? I do. I have done it. If I could not get a maths, physics or
:35:27. > :35:28.modern languages teacher and I thought somebody straight from
:35:29. > :35:31.university, without qualified teachers start this, that they could
:35:32. > :35:36.communicate well with youngsters, I would get that person into the
:35:37. > :35:40.classroom and get them accredited if they delivered the goods. If we are
:35:41. > :35:43.going to allow schools to have more autonomy and not be accountable to
:35:44. > :35:50.local authorities, free schools academies, don't you have to do...
:35:51. > :35:54.New entrants will be coming into the market, the educational marketplace.
:35:55. > :36:01.Do you not have to act more quickly when it is clear, and there has been
:36:02. > :36:05.examined recently, where it is clearly going badly wrong and
:36:06. > :36:09.children's education at risk? Absolutely. I made a point to the
:36:10. > :36:12.secretary of state and it is something I will talk more about
:36:13. > :36:15.over the coming year. We need to be in school is much more often. If a
:36:16. > :36:20.school fails at the moment, or underperforms, goes into this new
:36:21. > :36:25.category, Her Majesty 's inspectors stay with that institution until it
:36:26. > :36:30.improves. Sometimes we don't see a school for five or seven years. That
:36:31. > :36:33.is wrong. My argument is that Ofsted should pay a much greater part in
:36:34. > :36:39.monitoring the performance of schools between those inspections.
:36:40. > :36:44.Are you enjoying it? It is a tough job. Are you enjoying it? This is a
:36:45. > :36:50.tough job, but I enjoy it. Sometimes.
:36:51. > :36:54.You are watching Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20 minutes,
:36:55. > :37:05.Diane Abbott will be joining us. And we will have
:37:06. > :37:12.Hello once again from the Midlands. I'm Patrick Burns. We're joined
:37:13. > :37:16.today by an MP who's belonged to the same party for over 60 years, and an
:37:17. > :37:19.MEP who's setting`up a brand new one. David Winnick, Labour MP for
:37:20. > :37:28.Walsall North, is a member of the increasingly high`profile Commons
:37:29. > :37:32.Home Affairs Select Committee. Mike Nattrass was elected as a UKIP MEP
:37:33. > :37:36.at the last two European elections, but next time he plans to stand for
:37:37. > :37:50.An Independence Party, the AIP for short.
:37:51. > :37:52.Let's begin with yet more good news for Solihull, Castle Bromwich, i`54
:37:53. > :38:03.and everywhere else connected with Jaguar Land Rover. No sooner had
:38:04. > :38:06.they announced pre`tax profits of over ?1 billion for the past six
:38:07. > :38:10.months, than David Cameron, on his trade mission to China, was on hand
:38:11. > :38:13.to see them seal a ?4.5 billion sales agreement for over 100,000
:38:14. > :38:16.cars over the coming year. Accompanied by 120 business leaders,
:38:17. > :38:19.including JLR's chief executive, the Prime Minister was at the opening of
:38:20. > :38:32.the firm's new academy in Beijing, where technical, sales and service
:38:33. > :38:36.staff will undergo their training. Part of our long`term economic plan
:38:37. > :38:41.is to make sure Britain is a success in global markets. Jaguar Land Rover
:38:42. > :38:47.employed 38 thousand people back at home. It is doing brilliantly in
:38:48. > :38:51.China and Taiwan to themselves more cars, achieve more investment, and
:38:52. > :38:55.export the British model of apprenticeships.
:38:56. > :38:58.And during another leg of Mr Cameron's tour, this time in
:38:59. > :39:00.Shanghai, the Chinese owners of the London Taxi Company unveiled an ?80
:39:01. > :39:03.million investment programme, creating 200 more jobs in research
:39:04. > :39:06.and production at their Coventry plant, including the development of
:39:07. > :39:22.a new hybrid model. Geely say it will lead ultimately to a four`fold
:39:23. > :39:25.expansion of the workforce there. The evidence is that we are
:39:26. > :39:37.certainly competing in a global race. Our job, I would be the last
:39:38. > :39:40.to criticise David Cameron in this aspect. It could be said that he
:39:41. > :39:44.should have mentioned other matters in China, but anything that rings
:39:45. > :39:50.investment and jobs to the West Midlands meets with the approval of
:39:51. > :39:57.everybody. It does appear to be feeding into the supply chain
:39:58. > :40:01.companies. Indeed. We have said time and time again that such investment
:40:02. > :40:06.and development does indeed work. So many firms in the Black Country
:40:07. > :40:19.provide the main supplier with various items which they couldn't do
:40:20. > :40:23.without. Is there a danger that we do turn a blind eye to this
:40:24. > :40:30.marketplace in the EU which is on our doorstep? We need to trade with
:40:31. > :40:33.the world and the EU. The EU are taking over our bilateral
:40:34. > :40:39.agreements, so we cannot have one with China. It is through the EU.
:40:40. > :40:44.They are stealing our Commonwealth. In the past, it would have been the
:40:45. > :40:55.UK or Britain and is a long, and it is now the EU and Sri Lanka, and I
:40:56. > :41:02.resent that happily. Presumably you were talking about human rights but
:41:03. > :41:06.he should have raids. I did not expecting to go giver Lech Shah on
:41:07. > :41:16.human rights but it would have been right to express some concern. `` to
:41:17. > :41:26.go give a lecture. I think some comment would have been useful. I
:41:27. > :41:29.can see you agree. Broadly, I do. Coming up a little later: It was
:41:30. > :41:31.billed as the Autumn Statement where George Osborne 'secures the
:41:32. > :41:34.recovery'. So has the Chancellor got the right
:41:35. > :41:38.ingredients for growth in our part of the country, or will he have to
:41:39. > :41:41.change his recipe because of the cost of living crisis? That's our
:41:42. > :41:47.other big talking point, in a moment or two.
:41:48. > :41:50.Record numbers of Midlanders will turn to food banks to feed
:41:51. > :41:53.themselves and their families this Christmas. New figures show those
:41:54. > :41:57.using them are already up by nearly 10,000 on last year. The Trussell
:41:58. > :42:00.Trust, which runs 40 food banks in our part of the country, blames the
:42:01. > :42:08.rise partly on government changes to the benefits system. Our Coventry
:42:09. > :42:11.and Warwickshire political reporter Sian Grzeszczyk spoke to one mother
:42:12. > :42:18.who said she would have considered stealing to feed her family, but for
:42:19. > :42:21.the free hand`outs. Last week, these cupboards were bare and I had to go
:42:22. > :42:23.to a food bank, which was a great help.
:42:24. > :42:26.Thankfully, her cupboards are full today. But for the last few weeks,
:42:27. > :42:30.Susan's been struggling to feed herself and her children. She says a
:42:31. > :42:41.cut to her husband's benefits left her with no choice but to get help
:42:42. > :42:47.from a foodbank. We ended up having benefits cut to ?69 for a week. Gas
:42:48. > :42:51.and Electric to give the house going. I ended up turning to a food
:42:52. > :42:57.bank. It was absolutely brilliant to supporters through that time. What
:42:58. > :43:15.would you have done without it? I don't really know. I don't know
:43:16. > :43:20.where I would have gone. Possibly it would have lead to crime. I would
:43:21. > :43:29.steal, I would have too. To provide for my children. So you would have
:43:30. > :43:33.stolen? Food, to provide for my children, yes. In order to get food,
:43:34. > :43:36.you need to be referred by groups like doctors, the police, schools or
:43:37. > :43:39.health visitors. This old church stores tonnes of supplies for
:43:40. > :43:50.Coventry's foodbanks. The man who runs it tells me demand is soaring.
:43:51. > :43:54.The sorts of things we are seeing are around welfare and certainly
:43:55. > :43:57.things like sanctions, benefit change, benefit delayed. Only half
:43:58. > :44:03.the people coming through have suffered with that. The food bank is
:44:04. > :44:07.a point of last resort. In fact, the latest figures show that for the
:44:08. > :44:10.whole of last year more than 41,000 people received help from foodbanks
:44:11. > :44:13.in the West Midlands. But that number's already been surpassed in
:44:14. > :44:17.the first eight months of this year, with more than 50,000 people coming
:44:18. > :44:21.through the doors. Susan and her husband are trying to get back on
:44:22. > :44:29.track. But they feel very strongly that changes to the benefits system
:44:30. > :44:35.led to their situation. It's a mess. And that is in nice light words. The
:44:36. > :44:40.gentleman who deals with the benefits, the welfare secretary, is
:44:41. > :44:46.it? He should be looking at people that are on benefits and why are
:44:47. > :44:52.they needing food banks as much as they are? The Trussell Trust says
:44:53. > :44:56.more and more people like Susan and her family are turning to foodbanks,
:44:57. > :45:07.but the government says that's not surprising because of the amount of
:45:08. > :45:11.new ones being set up. Sian Grzeszczyk. In a moment I'll be
:45:12. > :45:14.talking to Anne Danks from the Christian anti`poverty charity the
:45:15. > :45:17.Trussell Trust. They report a huge surge in demand at their 40 food
:45:18. > :45:21.banks here. And we also invited the Work and Pensions Department to take
:45:22. > :45:31.part in this programme, but they declined. In a written statement
:45:32. > :45:34.they told us: I'm pleased to say the Conservative MP for Nuneaton Marcus
:45:35. > :45:41.Jones has been rather more forthcoming about this. I think
:45:42. > :45:45.there are a number of issues at play year. The squeeze on the cost of
:45:46. > :45:51.living in the last seven years has been enormous. The number of food
:45:52. > :45:54.banks has increased tenfold in the last Labour government and is still
:45:55. > :45:59.increasing. The current government has allowed organisations like job
:46:00. > :46:03.centre to signpost to food banks. That is all leading to a substantial
:46:04. > :46:08.increase to be but accessing and using food banks. I am aware people
:46:09. > :46:17.are squeezed with the cost of living and I'm glad I have supported the
:46:18. > :46:25.allowance, so people are better off. I think council tax freezes
:46:26. > :46:33.have been really helpful as well. Let's be clear, exactly what do you
:46:34. > :46:42.attribute this surge in demand to? Many reasons. Benefit delay and
:46:43. > :46:44.benefit issues of all kinds, including sanctions, are
:46:45. > :46:50.increasingly the reasons we are seeing referrals. The government
:46:51. > :46:57.Saver delivery of benefits of delivery on time has gone up and
:46:58. > :47:03.they say there is no robust evidence it is anything to do with their
:47:04. > :47:09.welfare changes. People can talk statistics but one thing which is
:47:10. > :47:14.clear is the reason that job centre plus was allowed to reflect clients
:47:15. > :47:20.to be banks and difficulties was on the basis that our figures showed
:47:21. > :47:26.how many people were struggling with benefit delays and changes. So it is
:47:27. > :47:29.a chicken and egg situation. The reason they refer clients to us is
:47:30. > :47:36.because we were able to demonstrate from our data that there was a need
:47:37. > :47:39.that. This issue is not just confined to areas which we would
:47:40. > :47:47.normally associate as chronic deprivation. That's right. Banks in
:47:48. > :47:50.Stratford`upon`Avon, for example. Somewhere I would go for a holiday
:47:51. > :47:57.break is an area with immense need. They now have a very busy food bank
:47:58. > :48:02.because, largely, these problems are hidden in our country. There is a
:48:03. > :48:07.huge factor of embarrassment people have to get over before they admit
:48:08. > :48:10.they are in difficulties. Then they neat as the help and access support.
:48:11. > :48:17.There are several hurdles to overcome. We use a prized geniuses
:48:18. > :48:27.in saying that she would consider stealing? `` were you surprised to
:48:28. > :48:31.hear Susan say. I'm not surprised. Whether she would have done it, we
:48:32. > :48:42.don't know. She didn't have two in this case. But she didn't. There was
:48:43. > :48:46.a tan fold increase in food bank was while Labour was in office so there
:48:47. > :48:52.is no easy side of the political fence to sit on. Far more people are
:48:53. > :48:55.using them. Because of the squeeze in incomes and benefits, many of my
:48:56. > :49:01.constituents are having a tremendously rough time. Either
:49:02. > :49:05.government would had to get on top of the welfare bill will stop yes,
:49:06. > :49:19.but anymore just waving at the moment. `` yes, but anymore just
:49:20. > :49:25.waving at the moment. If David Cameron went and spoke to people,
:49:26. > :49:32.they go because they have no alternative. Here we ever charity
:49:33. > :49:38.trying to address a problem that should be a government issue. We are
:49:39. > :49:46.talking about a sick people trying to survive. The EU this week have
:49:47. > :49:51.said that benefit system is too high and that is why we retract link
:49:52. > :49:57.immigrants from the European Union. `` why we are attracting will stop
:49:58. > :50:01.so people say it is your fault you have immigrants coming in, your
:50:02. > :50:06.benefits system is to high. Are they right, are they wrong? I don't think
:50:07. > :50:09.it is their business. We should address the problem by stopping
:50:10. > :50:16.people coming in and looking after our own. We shouldn't have people in
:50:17. > :50:21.the centre is struggling for food. I should be given decent jobs, and to
:50:22. > :50:26.do that, we need a jobs pool which is not always taken by immigrants.
:50:27. > :50:36.You need a decent job and a decent income as well. The fact of the
:50:37. > :50:41.matter is, benefits have been slashed and undermined in so many
:50:42. > :50:47.ways. Which other government comes in after the next election, for a
:50:48. > :50:52.time they will have a 2% cap on welfare spending. The majority of
:50:53. > :50:57.clients that come to us are actually working people. They are in
:50:58. > :51:09.employment and basically employment does not ring them enough income.
:51:10. > :51:12.The Chancellor George Osborne rounded`off a week of generally good
:51:13. > :51:15.news on the Midlands economy with a visit to the Staffordshire digger
:51:16. > :51:18.manufacturer JCB. They're creating 2,500 new jobs under a ?150 million
:51:19. > :51:21.expansion programme, including a new factory in Uttoxeter and an
:51:22. > :51:25.excavator plant at Cheadle. All this, just a day after his economic
:51:26. > :51:29.update to the Commons. It coincided this year not just with the festive
:51:30. > :51:32.season, but also with that epic "Winter Storm". And yet he will
:51:33. > :51:48.persist in calling it the "Autumn Statement". Susana Mendonca has more
:51:49. > :51:58.on this for us. Britain's economic plan is working.
:51:59. > :52:01.But the job is not done. At this Birmingham bakery they were
:52:02. > :52:07.delighted there was no sign of a pasty tax and pleased that business
:52:08. > :52:12.rates are being capped. That will make sure we can sustain jobs that
:52:13. > :52:20.we currently employ local people in. It can increase profit margins a
:52:21. > :52:23.bit better. The Chancellor 's message is all about cooking up
:52:24. > :52:27.economic growth, and companies like this one have an improving. At the
:52:28. > :52:33.question is whether this will translate into votes for, Lycian
:52:34. > :52:37.parties in those key marginal seats at the next election. So what do MPs
:52:38. > :52:42.in those marginals make of the Autumn statement? Message is that
:52:43. > :52:46.the economic land is working. Clearly, there is more work to do.
:52:47. > :52:50.The economy is growing, but we need to stick to the plan and make the
:52:51. > :52:56.tough decisions necessary to turn our fortunes around. But attempts to
:52:57. > :52:59.neutralise Labour's message about a "cost of living crisis" by limiting
:53:00. > :53:06.rises in household energy bills got a decidedly cool reception though.
:53:07. > :53:10.We've got a house full of children and they leave the light on, I don't
:53:11. > :53:13.know how much difference that makes. We need a reduction in our household
:53:14. > :53:16.bills. So will the Chancellor's Autumn Statement prove to be
:53:17. > :53:23.palatable for the voters, or will it prove to be more difficult to
:53:24. > :53:27.digest? It has been quite a week on the
:53:28. > :53:31.economy. Is Labour in danger of getting itself on the wrong side of
:53:32. > :53:35.the economic argument by concentrating heavily on living
:53:36. > :53:39.standards when we have job creation in our part of the country way ahead
:53:40. > :53:49.of the rest of the country, small and medium emphasises `` Enterprises
:53:50. > :53:56.growing 5.5%. The electorate will decide in due course, but the
:53:57. > :54:02.squeeze on incomes continue. Take energy prices ` when it was all
:54:03. > :54:06.privatised, and I voted against that, we were told competition would
:54:07. > :54:13.make it easier, people can pick and choose. Now of course the market is
:54:14. > :54:16.dominated by six Giants. I'm very much in favour of a freeze which Ed
:54:17. > :54:24.Miliband put forward, a freeze when we are elected. I would argue this
:54:25. > :54:27.point, I would make this point ` those who oppose such a freeze are
:54:28. > :54:34.rather like those who said, if you have been at a minimum wage, it will
:54:35. > :54:38.simply undermined implement. Where do you stand? However you look at
:54:39. > :54:45.it, public spending in this country is being clawed back to levels I saw
:54:46. > :54:52.Robert pest and say during the week, around 1948. That was a safe
:54:53. > :55:00.hands statement. There are other aspects we are not saving money on.
:55:01. > :55:05.One is HS2. Privatise that as well? Come on, stop by the dicing
:55:06. > :55:17.everything. ?100 million that will be. `` stop privatising everything.
:55:18. > :55:20.There is already ?3000 per household going into a project which is not
:55:21. > :55:26.necessary. And the EU have said this week that we need to pay another ?10
:55:27. > :55:32.billion over the next five years. Where do you stand on HS2? I'm in
:55:33. > :55:38.favour, I think it is in the overall interest of the West Midlands.
:55:39. > :55:41.Motorways and the rest have been opposed on previous occasions. When
:55:42. > :55:49.they have been built, everyone is used. Or nearly everyone who uses
:55:50. > :55:52.the car. Now, for the last time this year,
:55:53. > :55:56.our regular round`up of the political week in the Midlands in 60
:55:57. > :55:59.seconds, brought to us today by our Shropshire political reporter, Liz
:56:00. > :56:02.Roberts. Bob Jones, Labour's Police and Crime
:56:03. > :56:05.Commissioner in the West Midlands, has re`appointed the sitting Chief
:56:06. > :56:11.Constable Chris Sims to the top job for three more years.
:56:12. > :56:14.The police officer at the centre of the Plebgate row is to sue the
:56:15. > :56:18.Sutton Coldfield MP Andrew Mitchell for libel. Mr Mitchell accused PC
:56:19. > :56:22.Toby Rowland of not telling the truth about events in Downing Street
:56:23. > :56:25.in September last year. Blind pedestrians say new shared
:56:26. > :56:29.spaced road layouts in places like Coventry are putting lives at risk.
:56:30. > :56:42.They've taken their campaign to the House of Lords. Through this design,
:56:43. > :56:45.blind people are being excluded. They are staying at home.
:56:46. > :56:48.The Gloucestershire badger cull has been called off. Marksmen have
:56:49. > :56:51.failed to reach their kill targets, despite an extension.
:56:52. > :56:54.And an opinion poll in Dudley North suggests Labour's Ian Austin will
:56:55. > :57:04.hold on to the marginal seat at the next General Election, helped in
:57:05. > :57:07.part by a surge in the UKIP vote. We should point out that survey of
:57:08. > :57:10.voting intentions in Dudley North was a telephone poll of just over
:57:11. > :57:19.500 people, so it definitely requires a health warning.
:57:20. > :57:26.Nevertheless, your former party is very much in the spotlight. The
:57:27. > :57:30.anti`European end of the market is looking rather congested with
:57:31. > :57:35.splinter parties. Are you out to sabotage Nigel Farage? Not entirely,
:57:36. > :57:42.but I think people 's attention should be drawn to the fact that
:57:43. > :57:48.Nigel has his problems. Will you plan to field candidates in this
:57:49. > :57:54.region? Every region. You are going to split the vote. No, we're going
:57:55. > :57:59.to get votes from across the spectrum. I am well to the left of
:58:00. > :58:10.UKIP and I suspect we will get a lot of Labour votes. If there a Faustian
:58:11. > :58:14.pact between the UN UKIP? There is no such pact. We don't know how many
:58:15. > :58:21.votes we may lose to UKIP. I think there is far greater concern that
:58:22. > :58:26.the Tories are more anxious about UKIP. We are not complacent anymore
:58:27. > :58:32.than we are about the poll but you just mentioned. We just hope the
:58:33. > :58:40.outcome will be that we can get rid of this wretched government. One
:58:41. > :58:47.final thought. The passing of Nelson Mandela. I'm among those who
:58:48. > :58:52.campaigned over a period of so many years that he should be released,
:58:53. > :58:59.that the tyranny in South Africa should come to an end. Sad, terribly
:59:00. > :59:03.sad that he has died, but what he has achieved will last as a memorial
:59:04. > :59:07.to a man who dedicated his life with colleagues to the liberation of his
:59:08. > :59:11.country. After 27 years he should have been binned it did when he came
:59:12. > :59:15.out of jail, but he turned the other cheek in a very Christ`like manner
:59:16. > :59:22.and made friends with his enemies. The man is one of the greatest in my
:59:23. > :59:25.memory. I think that has to be seen as the most momentous event of a
:59:26. > :59:30.very busy week. My thanks to David and Mike. Coming
:59:31. > :59:33.up this coming week: a further round of budget cuts are to be outlined
:59:34. > :59:36.tomorrow by our biggest local authority, Birmingham City Council.
:59:37. > :59:41.BBC WM and Midlands Today will have more on that. This is our final
:59:42. > :59:47.programme before Christmas. So have a good one. This, for the last time
:59:48. > :59:56.in 2013, is where we rejoin Andrew Neil.
:59:57. > :00:22.Tomorrow, the House of Commons will pay its tributes to Nelson Mandela.
:00:23. > :00:42.Our nation has lost its greatest son. Our people have lost a father.
:00:43. > :00:49.The first thing I ever did that involved an issue or policy, or
:00:50. > :00:55.politics, was protest against apartheid.
:00:56. > :01:05.I think his greatest legacy, to South Africa and to the world, is
:01:06. > :01:16.the emphasis which he has always put on the need for a conciliation, on
:01:17. > :01:22.the importance of human rights. He also made us understand that we can
:01:23. > :01:25.change the world. We can change the world by changing attitudes, by
:01:26. > :01:31.changing perceptions. For this reason, I would like to pay him
:01:32. > :01:43.tribute as a great human being, who raised the standard of humanity.
:01:44. > :01:47.Thank you for the gift of Madiba. Thank you for what he has enabled us
:01:48. > :02:05.to know we can become. We are joined now by the Labour MP
:02:06. > :02:09.Diane Abbott. You met Mr Mandela not one after he was released from
:02:10. > :02:14.prison in 1990. He went as an election observer for the first one
:02:15. > :02:19.person, one-vote in South Africa. I would guess, of all the people you
:02:20. > :02:20.met in your life, you must have been the most impressive and biggest
:02:21. > :02:23.influence? He was extraordinary. the most impressive and biggest
:02:24. > :02:28.influence? He was extraordinary He had just come out of prison, 28
:02:29. > :02:34.years in reason. He had seen a lot of his colleagues tortured, blown up
:02:35. > :02:37.and killed. He was entirely without bitterness. That is what came
:02:38. > :02:42.across. That was key to his achievement, to achieve a peaceful
:02:43. > :02:45.transition. Everybody thought that if you have black majority rule, you
:02:46. > :02:48.if you have black majority rule you might have a bloodbath. It's down to
:02:49. > :02:53.Nelson Mandela but didn't happen. I remember FW de Klerk saying that
:02:54. > :03:02.Mandela was the key to getting a peaceful transition. Absolutely the
:03:03. > :03:08.key, an amazing man. London was one of the centres, people talked about
:03:09. > :03:11.it as being the other centre of the anti-apartheid struggle. That
:03:12. > :03:16.anti-apartheid struggle in London, it had an effect on black politics
:03:17. > :03:22.in Britain? Oh, yes. If you were black and politically active at the
:03:23. > :03:25.time, the apartheid struggle, the struggle against white supremacy in
:03:26. > :03:29.South Africa, was very important. Whatever your colour, the
:03:30. > :03:35.anti-apartheid struggle, for our generation, was the political
:03:36. > :03:38.campaign. We have the 50th anniversary of Kennedy's
:03:39. > :03:43.assassination. Mr Mandela's death. We are kind of running out of people
:03:44. > :03:47.that inspired us? I will never forget where I was when I saw him
:03:48. > :03:52.come out of prison, hand-in-hand with the women, I might add. If you
:03:53. > :03:56.have spent your whole teenage years and 20 is boycotting, marching,
:03:57. > :04:04.picketing, to see him actually come out was amazing. Do you think it was
:04:05. > :04:11.more exciting to meet you or the Spice Girls? I think the Spice
:04:12. > :04:15.Girls. What did the Labour backbenchers think about Ed Balls's
:04:16. > :04:19.performance after the Autumn Statement? Luck, Ed Balls is a
:04:20. > :04:23.brilliant man, but I think even he would say that it was not his best
:04:24. > :04:27.performance. But if you look at the polls, the public liked the points
:04:28. > :04:32.he made. The backbenchers were quiet, there was something wrong? I
:04:33. > :04:38.noticed that. It was like a wall of sound, deliberately. They know that
:04:39. > :04:41.under pressure his stamina might come back and it is difficult for
:04:42. > :04:47.him. That is what they were trying to incite. I have had experience
:04:48. > :04:50.first hand, a look at all of these anonymous and sometimes not
:04:51. > :05:02.anonymous quotes in the media. The spinning has begun against him? This
:05:03. > :05:06.is the party of brotherly love, no matter what the Tories say, we can
:05:07. > :05:12.say worse about each other. How could it be that two former aides to
:05:13. > :05:17.Gordon Brown do not like each other? Far be it from me to say. If he
:05:18. > :05:22.wanted to do it, and I'm not saying he does, is Mr Miliband ruthless
:05:23. > :05:26.enough to get rid of Ed Balls? I mean, he got rid of you, he got rid
:05:27. > :05:31.of his brother? One thing you should not do is under estimate Ed
:05:32. > :05:36.Miliband's capacity for ruthlessness. If he feels it is the
:05:37. > :05:40.right thing to do, he will do it. It's not just a matter of... Ed
:05:41. > :05:44.Balls is a big, powerful personality. He's great to interview
:05:45. > :05:48.because he is across his subject, you can have a really good argument
:05:49. > :05:53.with him, a man that knows his brief, his facts. But it's not just
:05:54. > :05:59.about the personality. There is a kind of sense that Labour needs to
:06:00. > :06:03.look forwards more on economic policy. Of course, the standard of
:06:04. > :06:08.living has been hugely successful for Labour. But it needs more than
:06:09. > :06:12.that on economic policy? I think he has been one of the most effective
:06:13. > :06:17.member 's Shadow Cabinet, and he's always associated with the Brown
:06:18. > :06:20.years, where there is always an element about, you were the guys
:06:21. > :06:25.that got it wrong. I think Ed Miliband will be very tempted to
:06:26. > :06:28.replace him with Alistair Darling. The scenario goes like this,
:06:29. > :06:30.Alistair Darling saves the union and then in September he saves the
:06:31. > :06:34.Labour Party. Ultimately, I don t Labour Party. Ultimately, I don't
:06:35. > :06:38.think he would do it. Talk about shifting tectonic plates, it would,
:06:39. > :06:44.wouldn't it? But it is a step too far. Ed Balls would not be too
:06:45. > :06:55.happy. It is not something you would want to do lightly. That sounds a
:06:56. > :06:59.bit of a threat. Not from you. I can't see Ed Balls magnanimously
:07:00. > :07:04.retreating and say, go on, Alistair Darling, take the job I have been
:07:05. > :07:07.after all career. Where do you put him? Do you make him a middle
:07:08. > :07:13.ranking business or welfare secretary? He wouldn't do that. If
:07:14. > :07:18.you sack him, he would retreat to the backbenchers. He might take up
:07:19. > :07:21.knitting and practices piano scales, or he might have a blood feud with
:07:22. > :07:28.Ed Miliband. I don't know which could be. You look back to when he
:07:29. > :07:31.was schools Secretary, you could feel he was constantly fuming. I
:07:32. > :07:35.think he is better inside the tent, looking out, than the other way
:07:36. > :07:38.around. The thing one Labour strategist said to me was that he is
:07:39. > :07:43.too much looking into the rear-view mirror, when it comes to economic
:07:44. > :07:49.policy. He needs to look ahead through the windscreen. That had
:07:50. > :07:53.some resonance? He was at the centre of Labour's economic policy-making
:07:54. > :07:58.from the mid-90s. So it's hard for him but he has to look forward.
:07:59. > :08:01.There is an interesting comparison with 2009. Gordon Brown got in
:08:02. > :08:05.trouble when he said the choice is between Labour investment and Tory
:08:06. > :08:09.cuts. Everybody knew it was between Labour cuts and Tory cuts. In other
:08:10. > :08:13.words, he was not acknowledging reality. With Ed Balls, OK, we can
:08:14. > :08:17.say it is the wrong sort of recovery, but there is a recovery.
:08:18. > :08:20.Does he not need to absorb that punch and say there is a recovery,
:08:21. > :08:27.then people will listen to him? Possibly. We know that the
:08:28. > :08:31.macroeconomics are looking better. We also know people are not
:08:32. > :08:36.experiencing it as a recovery in living standards. No one, not even
:08:37. > :08:40.Tories, really believe that David Cameron knows what it is like for
:08:41. > :08:44.middle-income people to live normal lives. Living standards is
:08:45. > :08:47.particularly powerful because of the composition of the government? Don't
:08:48. > :08:52.go away. This time last year we ambushed our political panel with a
:08:53. > :08:56.quiz. They didn't come out of it smelling of roses, but they did come
:08:57. > :09:02.out rather smelly. Will the coalition still be in place
:09:03. > :09:09.a year from now? Yes. Definitely. I say definitely as well. From now,
:09:10. > :09:17.one year, will we know the date of the European referendum? Yes. No. I
:09:18. > :09:23.say no as well. How much growth will there be? Less than 1%. Father
:09:24. > :09:30.Christmas is less qualified than me, but I will go for one. I will go for
:09:31. > :09:37.a quarter of that. 0.4%. Sorry, a third of that. I am with you, and
:09:38. > :09:42.1%. We didn't do too badly. What will growth be next year? I will
:09:43. > :09:46.remind you, the OBR has upgraded to 2.4%. Better stick with the OBR,
:09:47. > :09:46.remind you, the OBR has upgraded to 2.4%. Better stick with the OBR got
:09:47. > :09:52.2.4%. Better stick with the OBR, got it wrong last year. Well, they went
:09:53. > :09:56.down in March and then went back in December. I'm going to go under and
:09:57. > :10:03.claim credit where it's higher. I'm going to say 1%. Deliberately get it
:10:04. > :10:06.wrong. Given our record, if we say there is going to be spectacular
:10:07. > :10:08.growth, does it mean we're going to go into recession? There is
:10:09. > :10:15.incentive to be cautious. 2%. 2.4%, incentive to be cautious. 2%. 2 4%,
:10:16. > :10:22.because the housing market in London is rocketing. It would be closer to
:10:23. > :10:30.3% and 2.4, mark my words. We'll Ed Balls be Shadow Chancellor by this
:10:31. > :10:37.time next year? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, I value my life. Will UKIP mean the
:10:38. > :10:44.European elections, by which I mean have the highest percentage of the
:10:45. > :10:50.vote? Yes. Second behind Labour Second behind Labour. Will Alex
:10:51. > :10:57.Salmond win the independence referendum? No, but it will be
:10:58. > :11:00.closer than we think. No, unless they do something catastrophic like
:11:01. > :11:08.let Cameron debate him. Too close to call. Controversial. How many
:11:09. > :11:17.Romanians and Bulgarians will come to Britain in 2014? Far fewer than
:11:18. > :11:21.anyone thinks. The entire population of Romania and Bulgaria, like Nigel
:11:22. > :11:27.Farage thanks. I'll go with that, I'm confident. A change of tone for
:11:28. > :11:31.your magazine. Not many will come, but a lot here already will
:11:32. > :11:37.normalise and be counted into figures. Too many for most
:11:38. > :11:41.right-wing commentators. I think quite a few will come, but not the
:11:42. > :11:51.kind of numbers that made such a huge difference. This time,
:11:52. > :11:55.everybody is open. They do like to speak English, that is the reason
:11:56. > :12:01.they want to come. We'll all three of you still be here by this time
:12:02. > :12:08.next year? Yes. Would you recommend that? Yes, keep them. And he has
:12:09. > :12:15.lovely boots. Shiny red boots. If you can keep affording me, I will be
:12:16. > :12:21.here. I hope so, it sounds like you have a firing squad outside. I hope
:12:22. > :12:29.so, maybe you will find some true talent. Very pragmatic, aren't they?
:12:30. > :12:33.Let me put this to you, I think you will agree. The coalition will not
:12:34. > :12:39.break now, this side of the election next year? There will not be... They
:12:40. > :12:46.will not go their own ways by this time next year? Of next year, maybe
:12:47. > :12:52.just after. Early 2015. This side of the election? What is the UKIP view?
:12:53. > :12:58.I don't think there is an advantage to either of them. If the Lib Dems
:12:59. > :13:01.pulled out, they would look like there were a lodger in the Tory
:13:02. > :13:05.house of government. I think it would suit the Lib Dems to break
:13:06. > :13:09.just before the election. I think that is what Vince Cable wants to
:13:10. > :13:16.do. I don't think it is what Nick Clegg would like to do. The Tories
:13:17. > :13:19.would love it. They would have all of the toys to themselves. Yellow
:13:20. > :13:22.marker they would look like the grown-ups. The problem for Vince
:13:23. > :13:25.Cable is that he's not the force that used to be after his temper
:13:26. > :13:34.tantrum at the Conference. I will be back with the Daily
:13:35. > :13:39.Politics next week. If Santer gives you a diary in your stocking, pencil
:13:40. > :13:46.in Sunday the 20th of January, the first Sunday Politics of 2014.
:13:47. > :13:48.Remember, if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. Unless it is
:13:49. > :13:51.Christmas. And New Year.