:00:38. > :00:42.Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:43. > :00:45.Ed Balls has gone socialist and fiscal Conservative in one speech.
:00:46. > :00:50.He promises to balance the biggest bit of the budget. And to bring back
:00:51. > :00:54.the 50p top tax rate. Political masterstroke, or a return to old
:00:55. > :00:57.Labour? If you go to work by public
:00:58. > :01:00.transport, chances are the price of your ticket has just gone up -
:01:01. > :01:04.again. We'll speak to Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin. He's
:01:05. > :01:08.our Sunday Interview. And it's been another wet week
:01:09. > :01:13.across much of the UK, but what's the outlook according to this man?
:01:14. > :01:17.This morning.This morning. Held in recent years by party
:01:18. > :01:40.In the Midlands, is fracking coming to a town near you?
:01:41. > :01:44.And with me - as always - the political panel so fresh-faced,
:01:45. > :01:47.entertaining and downright popular they make Justin Bieber look like a
:01:48. > :01:50.boring old has-been just desperate to get your attention. Nick Watt,
:01:51. > :01:53.Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh, and they'll be tweeting quicker than a
:01:54. > :02:10.yellow Lamborghini racing down Miami Beach. Being political nerds, they
:02:11. > :02:14.have no idea what I'm talking about. Ed Balls sprung a surprise on us all
:02:15. > :02:18.yesterday. We kinda thought Labour would head for the election with a
:02:19. > :02:21.return to the 50p top rate of tax. But we didn't think he'd do it now.
:02:22. > :02:25.He did! The polls say it's popular, Labour activists now have a spring
:02:26. > :02:29.in their step. The Tories say it's a return to the bad old days of the
:02:30. > :02:31.'70s, and bosses now think Labour is anti-business. Here's the Shadow
:02:32. > :02:33.Chancellor speaking earlier this morning. I was part of a Government
:02:34. > :02:36.which did very many things to open up markets, to make the Bank of
:02:37. > :02:38.England independent, to work closely with business, but the reality is we
:02:39. > :02:41.are in very difficult circumstances and because if I'm honest you,
:02:42. > :02:44.George Osborne's failure in the last few years, those difficult
:02:45. > :02:54.circumstances will last into the next Parliament. Business people
:02:55. > :03:00.have said to me they want to get the deficit down, of course they do But
:03:01. > :03:03.to cut the top rate... It is foolish and feeds resentment I want to do
:03:04. > :03:08.the opposite and say look, pro-business, pro investment, pro
:03:09. > :03:12.market, but pro fairness. Let's get this deficit down in a fairway and
:03:13. > :03:19.make the reforms to make our economy work for the long term. What are the
:03:20. > :03:26.political implications of Labour now in favour of a 50%, in practise 352%
:03:27. > :03:29.top rate of tax? One of the political implications I don't think
:03:30. > :03:33.exist is that they'll win new voters. I'm not sure many people out
:03:34. > :03:37.there would think, I would love to vote for Ed Miliband but I'm not
:03:38. > :03:43.sure if he wants to tax rich people enough. It will con Dale their
:03:44. > :03:51.existing vote but I don't think it is the kind of, in the 1990s we
:03:52. > :03:54.talked about triangulation, moving beyond your core vote, I don't think
:03:55. > :03:58.it is a policy like that. If there has been a policy like that this
:03:59. > :04:02.year, this month, it has been the Tories' move on minimum wage. I
:04:03. > :04:06.thought Labour would come back with their own version, a centre-right
:04:07. > :04:11.policy, and instead they have done this. I think we talk about the 35%
:04:12. > :04:17.strategy that Labour supposed will have, I think it is a policy in that
:04:18. > :04:24.direction rather than the thing Tony Blair or Gordon Brown would have
:04:25. > :04:30.done. Where he was not clear is on how much it would raise. We know the
:04:31. > :04:35.sum in the grand scheme of things isn't much, the bedroom tax was
:04:36. > :04:43.about sending a message. What we are going to see is George Osborne and
:04:44. > :04:49.Ed Balls lock as they try to push the other one into saying things
:04:50. > :04:57.that are unpopular. The Tories, ?150,000 a year, that's exactly
:04:58. > :05:01.where Ed Balls want them to be. All three main parties have roughly the
:05:02. > :05:05.same plan, to run a current budget surplus by the end of the next
:05:06. > :05:10.Parliament. George Osborne said ?12 billion of welfare cuts, hasn't said
:05:11. > :05:15.how he is going to do it. Ed Balls is giving an idea that he is going
:05:16. > :05:19.to restore this 50 persons rate The contribution of that will be
:05:20. > :05:24.deminimus. It is not much, but what does it say about your values.
:05:25. > :05:29.Because it is that package, it is cleverer than people think. Where
:05:30. > :05:32.the challenge is is the question that Peter Mandelson posed at the
:05:33. > :05:37.last election, which is can the Labour Party win a general election
:05:38. > :05:40.if it doesn't have business on its side? That's the big challenge and
:05:41. > :05:45.that's the question looking difficult for them this morning
:05:46. > :05:50.Does it matter if Labour has business on its side. I thought the
:05:51. > :05:54.most fascinating thing about this announcement is it came from the guy
:05:55. > :05:59.mindful of business support, Ed Balls. When in opposition and when a
:06:00. > :06:05.Minister and as a shadow as a result, he's been far more conscious
:06:06. > :06:10.than Ed Miliband about the need not to alienate the CB Bill. In the
:06:11. > :06:14.run-up of an election. This is a measure of Ed Miliband's strength in
:06:15. > :06:19.the Labour Party, that his view of things can prevail so easily over a
:06:20. > :06:25.guy who for the last 15 years has taken a different view. Eight out of
:06:26. > :06:30.ten businesses according to the CBI don't want us to leave business
:06:31. > :06:35.Business is in a bit of a cleft stick. Ed Miliband would like to see
:06:36. > :06:38.businesses squealing, and Ed Balls is clearly not so comfortable on
:06:39. > :06:43.that one. There's a difference on that. Mind you, they were squealing
:06:44. > :06:47.this morning from Davos. They probably had hangovers as well. The
:06:48. > :06:52.other thing they would say is this is not like Ed Balls thinks that 50p
:06:53. > :06:57.is the optimal rate forever, it what go eventually. Isn't that what
:06:58. > :07:02.politicians said when income tax was introduced? Yeah, in '97 Labour
:07:03. > :07:07.regarded 40 persons as the rate where it would stay.
:07:08. > :07:12.It's been a bad week for the Lib Dems. Again. Actually, it's been one
:07:13. > :07:15.of the worst weeks yet for Nick Clegg and his party in recent
:07:16. > :07:17.memory, as they've gone from talking confidently about their role in
:07:18. > :07:20.Government to facing a storm of criticism over claims of
:07:21. > :07:23.inappropriate sexual behaviour by a Lib Dem peer, Chris Rennard, and a
:07:24. > :07:27.Lib Dem MP, Mike Hancock. Here's Giles with the story of the week. A
:07:28. > :07:33.challenge to Nick Clegg's authority as he face as growing row over the
:07:34. > :07:37.Liberal Democrat... I want everyone to be treated with respect by the
:07:38. > :07:44.Liberal Democrats. We are expecting him to show moral leadership on our
:07:45. > :07:49.behalf. A good man has been publicly destroyed by the media with the
:07:50. > :07:53.apparent support of Nick Clegg. I would like Nick Clegg to show
:07:54. > :08:00.leadership and say, this has got to stop. When Nick Clegg woke up on
:08:01. > :08:06.Monday morning he knew he was in trouble, staring down the barrel of
:08:07. > :08:11.a stand justify with Lord Rennard over allegations that the peer had
:08:12. > :08:16.inappropriately touched a number of women. Chris Rennard thought he was
:08:17. > :08:20.cleared. Nick Clegg wanted more I said if he doesn't apologise, he
:08:21. > :08:25.should withdraw from the House of Lords. If he does that today, what
:08:26. > :08:32.do you do then? I hope he doesn t. I think no apology, no whip. 2014 was
:08:33. > :08:37.starting badly for the Liberal Democrats. Chris Rennard refused to
:08:38. > :08:43.apologise, saying you can't say sorry for something you haven't
:08:44. > :08:46.done. The and he was leaning towards legal action. Butch us friends
:08:47. > :08:50.better defending Pym and publicly. This is a good, decent man, who has
:08:51. > :08:55.been punished by the party, with the leadership of the party that seems
:08:56. > :09:01.to be showing scant regard for due process. But his accusers felt very
:09:02. > :09:06.differently. It is untenable for the Lib Dems to have a credible voice on
:09:07. > :09:10.qualities and women's issues in the future if Lord Rennard was allowed
:09:11. > :09:17.to be back on the Lib Dem benches in the House of Lords. Therein lay the
:09:18. > :09:20.problem that exposed the weaknesses of the Lib Dem leaders. The party's
:09:21. > :09:27.internal structures have all the simplicity of a circuit diagram for
:09:28. > :09:32.a supercomputer, exposing the complexity of who runs the Liberal
:09:33. > :09:36.Democrats? The simple question that arose of that was can the leader of
:09:37. > :09:42.the Lib Dems remove a Lib Dem peer? The simple answer is no. The Lib Dem
:09:43. > :09:48.whips in the Lords could do it but if enough Lib Dem peers disagreed,
:09:49. > :09:51.they could overrule it. Some long-stand ng friends of roar
:09:52. > :09:56.Rennard think he is either the innocent victim of a media
:09:57. > :10:00.witch-hunt or at the least due process has been ridden over rough
:10:01. > :10:05.shot by the leadership. Nobody ever did spot Lord Rennard as he didn't
:10:06. > :10:09.turn up to the Lords, will citing ill health. But issued a statement
:10:10. > :10:13.that ruled out an apology. He refused to do so and refused to
:10:14. > :10:17.comply with the outcome of that report, so there was no alternative
:10:18. > :10:21.but for the party to suspend his membership today. On Wednesday Nick
:10:22. > :10:25.Clegg met Lib Dem peers, not for a crunch decision, but to discuss the
:10:26. > :10:29.extraordinary prospect of legal action against the party by the man
:10:30. > :10:33.long credited with building its success. The situation was making
:10:34. > :10:37.the party look like a joke. One Tory MP said to one of my colleagues this
:10:38. > :10:40.morning, the funny thing about the Liberal Democrats, you managed to
:10:41. > :10:44.create a whole sex scandal without any sex. And we can laugh at
:10:45. > :10:50.ourselves but actually it is rather serious. And it got more serious,
:10:51. > :10:54.when an MP who had resigned the Lib Dem whip last year was expanded from
:10:55. > :10:58.the party over a report into allegations of serious and unwelcome
:10:59. > :11:03.sexual behaviour towards a constituent. All of this leaves the
:11:04. > :11:08.Lib Dems desperately wishing these sagas had been dealt with long ago
:11:09. > :11:13.and would now go away. Nick Clegg ended the week still party leader.
:11:14. > :11:20.Lord Rennard, once one of their most powerful players, ended the week,
:11:21. > :11:23.for now, no longer even in it. Giles on the Lib Dems' disastrous
:11:24. > :11:29.week. Now, as you doubtless already know, on Tuesday Lib Dem MPs will
:11:30. > :11:34.vote to choose a new deputy leader. You didn't know that? You do now.
:11:35. > :11:38.The job of Nick Clegg's number two is to speak with a genuine Lib Dem
:11:39. > :11:41.voice, untainted by the demands of coalition Government. At this point
:11:42. > :11:44.in the show we had expected to speak to all three candidates for the
:11:45. > :11:52.post, held in recent years by party veterans like Vince Cable and Simon
:11:53. > :11:55.Hughes. We thought it being quite a significant week for the party, they
:11:56. > :12:01.might have something to say. And here they are. Well that's their
:12:02. > :12:05.pictures. For various reasons, all three are now unavailable. Malcolm
:12:06. > :12:09.Bruce, he's reckoned to be the outsider. His office said he had a
:12:10. > :12:12."family commitment". Gordon Birtwistle, the Burnley MP, was
:12:13. > :12:16.booked to appear but then told us, "I was at an event last night with
:12:17. > :12:21.Lorely Burt" - she's one of the candidates - "and she told me it was
:12:22. > :12:25.off". And Lorely Burt herself, seen by many as the red hot favourite,
:12:26. > :12:29.told us: "Because of the Rennard thing we don't want to put ourselves
:12:30. > :12:40.in a position where we have to answer difficult questions." How
:12:41. > :12:44.refreshingly honest. Helen, how bad politically is all this for the Lib
:12:45. > :12:47.Dems? What I think is the tragic irony of the Lib Dems is they've
:12:48. > :12:52.been revealed as being too democratic. In the same way that
:12:53. > :12:57.their party conference embarrassed Nick Clegg by voting sings that he
:12:58. > :13:04.signed up to, and now everything has to be run past various
:13:05. > :13:15.sub-committees first. Is it democratic or chaotic? It is
:13:16. > :13:21.Byzantine. Mike Hancock was voluntarily suspended, and this week
:13:22. > :13:26.he was properly suspended. It was new information into the public
:13:27. > :13:33.domain that forced that. I'm already hearing Labour and Conservative
:13:34. > :13:36.Party musing that if it is a long Parliament, we will form a minority
:13:37. > :13:40.Government. It is a disaster for them. Voters like parties that
:13:41. > :13:45.reflect and are interested this their concerns. Parties that are
:13:46. > :13:48.self obsessed turn them off. The third party, if they carry on like
:13:49. > :13:52.this, they'll be the fifth party in the European elections, so they have
:13:53. > :13:58.got to draw a line under this. They do that, if they do, through
:13:59. > :14:02.mediation. As I understand it, Chris Rennard,s who has go devoted his
:14:03. > :14:06.entire life to the Liberal Democrats, and previously the
:14:07. > :14:09.Liberal Party, is keen to draw a line under this. He is up for
:14:10. > :14:14.mediation but he needs to know that the women that he has clearly
:14:15. > :14:17.invaded their personal space, that there wouldn't be a possible legal a
:14:18. > :14:21.action from them. The it is very difficult to see how you could
:14:22. > :14:26.resolve that. Except he is threatening through his friends
:14:27. > :14:30.these famous friends, to spill all the beans about all the party's sex
:14:31. > :14:34.secrets. Isn't the danger for the Lib Dems, this haunts them through
:14:35. > :14:37.to the European elections, where they'll get thumped in the European
:14:38. > :14:41.elections? They'll get destroyed in the European elections, which keeps
:14:42. > :14:47.it salient as a story over the summer. And it has implications for
:14:48. > :14:51.Nick Clegg's leadership. He's done a good job until now, perhaps better
:14:52. > :14:54.than David Cameron, of exercising authority over his party. He had a
:14:55. > :14:58.good conference in September. Absolutely, and now the Lib Dems
:14:59. > :15:03.have looked like a party without a leader or a leadership structure.
:15:04. > :15:07.Part of that is down to the chaotic or Byzantine organisational
:15:08. > :15:11.structure of the party. Part of it is Nick Clegg's failure to assert
:15:12. > :15:19.himself and impose himself over events. Is it Byzantine or
:15:20. > :15:30.Byzantine. It is labyrinthine. You don't get these words on the Today
:15:31. > :15:34.programme. The cost of living has been back on the agenda this week as
:15:35. > :15:37.Labour and the Tories argue over whether the value of money in your
:15:38. > :15:40.pocket is going up or down. Well there's one cost which has been
:15:41. > :15:44.racing ahead of inflation and that's the amount you have to pay to travel
:15:45. > :15:47.by train, by bus and by air. Rail commuters have been hard hit over
:15:48. > :15:50.the last four years, with the cost of the average season ticket going
:15:51. > :15:57.up by 18% since January 2010, while wages have gone up by just 3.6% over
:15:58. > :16:03.the same period. It means some rail users are paying high prices with
:16:04. > :16:07.commuters from Kent shelling out more than ?5,000 per year from the
:16:08. > :16:12.beginning of this month just to get to work in London. It doesn't
:16:13. > :16:18.compare well with our European counterparts. In the UK the average
:16:19. > :16:26.rail user spends 14% of their average income on trains. It is just
:16:27. > :16:31.1.5% in Italy. Regulated fares like season tickets went up 3.1% at the
:16:32. > :16:35.beginning of this month, and with ministers keen to make passengers
:16:36. > :16:39.fought more of the bills, there are more fare rises coming down the
:16:40. > :16:53.track. And Patrick McLoughlin joins me now for the Sunday Interview
:16:54. > :16:57.Welcome. You claim to be in the party of hard-working people, so why
:16:58. > :17:01.is it that since you came to power rail commuters have seen the cost of
:17:02. > :17:10.their average season ticket going up in money terms by over 18% while
:17:11. > :17:15.their pay has gone up in money terms by less than four? I would point out
:17:16. > :17:21.that this is the first year in ten years that we have not had an above
:17:22. > :17:26.inflation increase on fares. The Government accepts we have got to do
:17:27. > :17:34.as much as we can to help the passengers. A big inflation increase
:17:35. > :17:41.since 2010. This is the first year in ten years that it has not been
:17:42. > :17:46.above RPI, but we are also investing huge amounts of money into the
:17:47. > :17:51.railways, building new trains for the East Coast Main Line and the
:17:52. > :17:58.great Western. We are spending 500 million at Birmingham station, this
:17:59. > :18:01.is all increasing capacity, so we are seeing investments. Over the
:18:02. > :18:11.next five years Network Rail will invest over ?38 billion in the
:18:12. > :18:16.network structure. We also have an expensive railway and it is ordinary
:18:17. > :18:22.people paying for it. A season ticket from Woking in Surrey,
:18:23. > :18:28.commuter belt land in London, let's look at the figures. This is a
:18:29. > :18:37.distance of over 25 miles, it cost over ?3000 per year. We have picked
:18:38. > :18:46.similar distances to international cities.
:18:47. > :18:54.The British commuter is being ripped off. The British commuter is seeing
:18:55. > :18:59.record levels of investment in our railways. The investment has to be
:19:00. > :19:03.paid for. We are investing huge amounts of money and I don't know
:19:04. > :19:20.whether the figures you have got here... I'm sure they are likewise,
:19:21. > :19:29.as you have managed to do... White -- ten times more than the Italian
:19:30. > :19:33.equivalent. We have seen transformational changes in our
:19:34. > :19:38.railway services and we need to carry on investing. We were paying
:19:39. > :19:43.these prices even before you started investing. We have always paid a lot
:19:44. > :19:53.more to commute in this country than our European equivalents. I'm not
:19:54. > :19:59.quite sure I want to take on Italy is a great example. You would if you
:20:00. > :20:05.were a commuter. You is a great example. You would if you
:20:06. > :20:11.the other rates of taxation has to be paid as well. Isn't it the case
:20:12. > :20:15.they are making profits out of these figures and using them to subsidise
:20:16. > :20:23.cheaper fares back in their homeland? The overall profit margin
:20:24. > :20:27.train companies make is 3%, a reasonable amount, and we have seen
:20:28. > :20:31.a revolution as far as the railway industry is concerned.
:20:32. > :20:37.a revolution as far as the railway 20 years we have seen passenger
:20:38. > :20:41.journeys going from 750 million to 1.5 billion. That is a massive
:20:42. > :20:46.revolution in rail. Let me look 1.5 billion. That is a massive
:20:47. > :20:46.spokesperson for the German government, the Ministry of
:20:47. > :21:03.transport. They are charging huge fares in
:21:04. > :21:09.Britain to take that money back to subsidise fares in Germany. What do
:21:10. > :21:13.you say to that? We are seeing British companies winning contracts
:21:14. > :21:18.in Germany. The National Express are winning contracts to the railways.
:21:19. > :21:24.What about the ordinary commuter? They are paying through the nose so
:21:25. > :21:29.German commuters can travel more cheaply. We are still subsidising
:21:30. > :21:33.the railways in this country, but overall we want to reduce the
:21:34. > :21:40.subsidy we are giving. We are still seeing growth in our railways and I
:21:41. > :21:49.want to see more people using them. Why do you increase rail fares at
:21:50. > :21:54.the higher RPI measure than the lower CPI measurement? That is what
:21:55. > :21:58.has always been done, and we have stopped. This is the first time in
:21:59. > :22:08.ten years that we have not raised the rail figures above RPI. You
:22:09. > :22:13.still link fares to RPI. You use the lower CPI figure when it suits you,
:22:14. > :22:18.to keep pension payments down for example, but the higher one when it
:22:19. > :22:22.comes to increasing rail fares. We are still putting a huge subsidy
:22:23. > :22:27.into the rail industry, there is still a huge amount of money going
:22:28. > :22:33.from the taxpayer to support the rail industry. I am not asking you
:22:34. > :22:41.about that, I am asking you why you link the figures to the higher RPI
:22:42. > :22:47.vesture Mark if we are going to pay for the levels of investment, so all
:22:48. > :22:52.the new trains being built at Newton Aycliffe for the East Coast Main
:22:53. > :22:56.Line and the great Western, ?3. billion of investment, new rolling
:22:57. > :23:00.stock coming online, then yes, we have to pay for it, and it is a
:23:01. > :23:14.question of the taxpayer paying for it all the -- or the passenger.
:23:15. > :23:17.You have capped parking fines until the next election, rail commuters we
:23:18. > :23:27.have seen the cost of their ticket has gone up by nearly 20%, you are
:23:28. > :23:34.the party of the drivers, not the passengers, aren't you?
:23:35. > :23:48.We are trying to help everybody who has been struggling. I think we are
:23:49. > :23:53.setting out long-term plans for our railways, investing heavily in them
:23:54. > :23:58.and it is getting that balance right. But you have done more for
:23:59. > :24:05.the driver than you have for the user of public transport. I don t
:24:06. > :24:11.accept that. They are paying the same petrol prices as 2011. This is
:24:12. > :24:18.the first time in ten years that there has not been an RPI plus
:24:19. > :24:25.rise. We are investing record amounts. Bus fares are also rising,
:24:26. > :24:31.4.2% in real terms in 2010, at a time when real take-home pay has
:24:32. > :24:37.been falling. This hits commuters particularly workers who use buses
:24:38. > :24:42.on low incomes, another cost of living squeeze. I was with
:24:43. > :24:55.Stagecoach in Manchester on Friday, and I saw a bus company investing in
:24:56. > :25:01.new buses. Last week First ordered new buses. Part of your hard-working
:25:02. > :25:08.families you are always on about, they are the ones going to work
:25:09. > :25:11.early in the morning, and yet you are making them pay more for their
:25:12. > :25:18.buses in real terms than they did before. They would be happier if
:25:19. > :25:24.they could travel more cheaply. It is about getting investment in
:25:25. > :25:32.services, it has to be paid for Why not run the old buses for five more
:25:33. > :25:36.years? Because then there is more pollution in the atmosphere, modern
:25:37. > :25:40.buses have lower emissions, and we are still giving huge support
:25:41. > :25:44.overall to the bus industry and that is very important because I fully
:25:45. > :25:53.accept that the number of people, yes, use the train but a lot of
:25:54. > :25:59.people use buses as well. High-speed two, it has been delayed because 877
:26:00. > :26:06.pages of key evidence from your department were left on a computer
:26:07. > :26:09.memory stick, part of the submission to environmental consultation. Your
:26:10. > :26:17.department's economic case is now widely regarded as a joke, now you
:26:18. > :26:23.do this. Is your department fit for purpose? Yes, and as far as what
:26:24. > :26:26.happened with the memory stick, it is an acceptable and shouldn't have
:26:27. > :26:32.happened, and therefore we have extended the time. There has been an
:26:33. > :26:42.extension in the time for people to make representation, the bill for
:26:43. > :26:55.this goes through Parliament in a different way to a normal bill. It
:26:56. > :27:00.is vital HS2 provides what we want. What I am very pleased about is when
:27:01. > :27:05.the paving bill was passed by Parliament just a few months ago,
:27:06. > :27:11.there was overwhelming support, and I kept reading there was going to be
:27:12. > :27:16.70 people voting against it, in the end 30 people voted against it and
:27:17. > :27:20.there was a good majority in the House of Commons. So can you give a
:27:21. > :27:29.guarantee that this legislation will get onto the statute books? I will
:27:30. > :27:32.do all I can. I cannot tell you the exact Parliamentary time scale. The
:27:33. > :27:40.bill will have started its progress through the House of Commons by
:27:41. > :27:47.2015, and it may well have concluded. The new chairman of HS2
:27:48. > :27:58.said he can bring the cost of the line substantially under the budget,
:27:59. > :28:03.do you agree with that? The figure is ?42 billion with a large
:28:04. > :28:07.contingency, and David Higgins, as chairman of HS2, is looking at the
:28:08. > :28:12.whole cast and seeing if there are ways in which it can be built
:28:13. > :28:17.faster. At the moment across London we are building Crossrail, ?14.
:28:18. > :28:24.billion investment. There was a report last week saying what an
:28:25. > :28:30.excellent job has been done. Crossrail started under Labour.
:28:31. > :28:38.Actually it was Cecil Parkinson in the 1990 party conference. You may
:28:39. > :28:44.get HS2 cheaper if you didn't pay people so much, why is the
:28:45. > :28:54.nonexecutive chairman of HS2 on ?600,000? And the new chief
:28:55. > :28:57.executive on ?750,000. These are very big projects and we need to
:28:58. > :29:02.attract the best people become so we are going for the best engineers in
:29:03. > :29:07.the world to engineer this project. It is a large salary, there is no
:29:08. > :29:12.question about it, but I'm rather pleased that engineers rather than
:29:13. > :29:16.bankers can be seen to get big rewards for delivering what will be
:29:17. > :29:20.very important pieces of national infrastructure. I didn't have time
:29:21. > :29:27.to ask you about your passenger duty so perhaps another time. We are
:29:28. > :29:30.about to speak to Nigel Mills and all of these MPs on your side who
:29:31. > :29:35.are rebelling against the Government, how would you handle
:29:36. > :29:41.them? We have got to listen to what our colleagues are talking about and
:29:42. > :29:46.try to respond it. Would you take them for a long walk off a short
:29:47. > :29:58.pier? I'm sure I would have many conversations with them. An
:29:59. > :30:04.immigration bill to tack the immigration into the UK. When limits
:30:05. > :30:10.on migration from Bulgaria and Romania were lifted this year there
:30:11. > :30:13.were warnings of a large influx of migrant workerses from the two new
:30:14. > :30:20.European countries. So far it's been more of a dribble than a flood. Who
:30:21. > :30:24.can forget Labour MP Keith Vaz greeting a handful of arrivals at
:30:25. > :30:28.Luton Airport. But it is early days and it is one of the reasons the
:30:29. > :30:32.Government's introduced a new Immigration Bill. The Prime Minister
:30:33. > :30:38.is facing rebellion from backbenchers who want tougher action
:30:39. > :30:47.on immigration from abroad. Nigel Mills would reimpose restrictions on
:30:48. > :30:54.how many Romanians and Bulgarians can come here. Joining me is Nigel
:30:55. > :30:59.Mills, Conservative MP behind the amendment and Labour MP Diane
:31:00. > :31:07.Abbott. Welcome. Nigel Mills, there hasn't been an influx of Romanians
:31:08. > :31:10.and Bulgarians. Why do you want to restore these, kick these
:31:11. > :31:15.transitional controls way forward to 2019? I don't think any of us were
:31:16. > :31:20.expecting a rush on January 1st Andrew. I think we were talking
:31:21. > :31:25.about a range of 250,000 to 350 000 people over five years. That's
:31:26. > :31:30.obviously a large amount of people, especially when you think net
:31:31. > :31:34.migration to the UK was well in excess of the Government's target of
:31:35. > :31:39.tens of thousands last year. The real concern is that it would be
:31:40. > :31:45.ever increasing our population, attracting lots of low-skilled,
:31:46. > :31:50.low-wage people, which keeps our people out of work and wages down.
:31:51. > :31:54.Did you accept that if you were to accept this, it would be in breach
:31:55. > :31:59.of the Treaty of Rome, the founding principle of the European Union We
:32:00. > :32:03.were trying to keep the restrictions that Bulgaria and Romania accepted
:32:04. > :32:07.for their first seven years of EU membership, on the basis that when
:32:08. > :32:11.we signed the treaty we weren't aware that we would have a huge and
:32:12. > :32:16.catastrophic recession we are still recovering from. But you would be in
:32:17. > :32:20.breach of the law, correct? The UK Parliament has a right to say we
:32:21. > :32:25.signed this deal before the terrible recession, and we need a bit longer
:32:26. > :32:32.in our national interest. It is worth noting that Bulgaria and
:32:33. > :32:37.Romania haven't met all their accession requirements. The
:32:38. > :32:42.Bulgarian requirement passed a law... So if they break the law it
:32:43. > :32:47.is alright for us to break the law? Is we should be focusing on trying
:32:48. > :32:52.to get 2. 4 million of our own in work, and 1 million people not in
:32:53. > :32:58.work... Let me bring in Diane Abbott. Will you vote for this
:32:59. > :33:03.amendment and why? It is in breach of the treaty. While I deplore MPs
:33:04. > :33:07.that try to cause trouble, these MPs have been particularly mindless
:33:08. > :33:12.because what they want to do wouldn't be legal. However, it is a
:33:13. > :33:17.Tory internal brief, if I might say so. Maybe you can cause trouble by
:33:18. > :33:24.voting for it. No, that would be going too far. Underlying it is a
:33:25. > :33:28.real antagonism for David Cameron. They have had to hold off on this
:33:29. > :33:32.bill until January. It was supposed to be debating before Christmas As
:33:33. > :33:39.we speak they've not cut a deal so it could be pretty grus om. Nigel
:33:40. > :33:44.Mills, what do you say to that I think there is a recognition that
:33:45. > :33:49.there is a problem with the amount of migration from EU countries that
:33:50. > :33:52.we need to tackle. We could try to achieve an annual cap perhaps,
:33:53. > :33:56.longer limits on when countries get free movement. I think the debate is
:33:57. > :34:00.moving in the right direction, but I think those people who are trapped
:34:01. > :34:04.out of work and desperately looking for work want something to be done
:34:05. > :34:09.now and not wait a few more years while we have more assessments
:34:10. > :34:14.Andrews. People are worried about the level of immigration. They I it
:34:15. > :34:20.is too high. That's the consensus in the country. We spoke to to
:34:21. > :34:24.migration centre in Hackney and they said they are struggling to cope
:34:25. > :34:28.with the number of people using their services. These are people
:34:29. > :34:33.with problems with the law. In the past years EU migrants put in more
:34:34. > :34:38.to the economy in taxation than they take out in benefits. When it comes
:34:39. > :34:42.to free movement, which is agitating Nige em, that horse has bolted. We
:34:43. > :34:47.signed a treaty. There is nothing people like Nigel Mills can do,
:34:48. > :34:52.unless they want to rip their party apart, God forbid. Will you go as
:34:53. > :34:56.far as to rip your party apart, Nigel Mills? Are you going to take
:34:57. > :35:02.this all the way? Would you rather see this bill go down than your
:35:03. > :35:07.amendment not be accepted? This is a very important bill. I think we all
:35:08. > :35:11.want to see measures on the statute book, so the last thing we want to
:35:12. > :35:16.see is this bill go down. We do need to set out clearly that we have real
:35:17. > :35:23.concerns about the level of EU migration and something needs to be
:35:24. > :35:29.done. Would you rather have the bill without your amendment or no bill at
:35:30. > :35:33.all? I am hoping we can have the bill with the amendment. I know
:35:34. > :35:40.that, but if you can't? Is that will depend on what the Labour Party
:35:41. > :35:44.decide to do. They are talking tougher on immigration but will they
:35:45. > :35:48.take action on it? Your party has been talking tough on immigration
:35:49. > :35:53.but I will be surprised if an Ed Miliband Labour Party would vote for
:35:54. > :35:57.egg in direct cameravention of the Treaty of Rome. It would make no
:35:58. > :36:05.sense. Nigel Mills is wishing for the impossible. If I was a Tory I
:36:06. > :36:09.would be wringing high hands. He hasn't ruled out crashing the bill.
:36:10. > :36:16.That's incredible. Where will this end, Nigel Mills? We'll end with a
:36:17. > :36:20.vote on Thursday. There's a lot of amendments people can use to show
:36:21. > :36:23.their concern about migration. We want limited and proportionate
:36:24. > :36:28.action, and that's what I am proposing. I want to see the bill on
:36:29. > :36:33.the statute book, I want the restrictions on people who shouldn't
:36:34. > :36:38.be here getting bank accounts and driving licences. I don't want to
:36:39. > :36:44.crash this bill but there's more measures we need in it. Nigel Mills
:36:45. > :36:49.thank you. You are going to be -- popping up I think on the Sunday
:36:50. > :36:55.Politics East Midlands. Diane Abbott, thank you as well.
:36:56. > :36:58.We're in for more heavy rain and high winds across the UK today. You
:36:59. > :37:01.may remember that one UKIP councillor - he's since been
:37:02. > :37:03.suspended - caused controversy last weekend by blaming the recent
:37:04. > :37:07.flooding on the legalisation of gay marriage. Why didn't I think of
:37:08. > :37:11.that? So who better than this man to bring you the unofficial forecast.
:37:12. > :37:16.I'll be bringing you the late least UKIP weather from your area.
:37:17. > :37:22.You're watching Sunday Politics. Also coming up in just over 20
:37:23. > :37:32.minutes, I'll be looking at the week ahead with our political panel.
:37:33. > :37:39.Hello, I'm David Gregory`Kumar. Welcome to the Sunday Politics in
:37:40. > :37:42.the Midlands. Today I'm joined by guests from the country and from the
:37:43. > :37:44.city. Laurence Robertson is the
:37:45. > :37:48.Conservative MP for rural Tewkesbury on the banks of the Severn and the
:37:49. > :37:52.Avon ` and at this time of year often a bit too close for comfort!
:37:53. > :37:55.Ann Lucas is the Labour leader of Coventry City Council, which after
:37:56. > :38:01.Birmingham is this region's biggest local authority. Welcome both.
:38:02. > :38:05.And it's in Coventry where we kick off this week, as the sorry and
:38:06. > :38:09.lengthy saga of what will happen to the city's football club appears to
:38:10. > :38:12.be heading for extra time. Sky Blues are playing their "home" Games in
:38:13. > :38:17.Northampton at the moment, after an acrimonious dispute over unpaid rent
:38:18. > :38:21.meant they left the Ricoh Arena. The Arena is part owned by Coventry City
:38:22. > :38:25.Council. Plans for a brand`new stadium have been drawn up by the
:38:26. > :38:35.football club but, as yet, they haven't revealed the exact location
:38:36. > :38:40.` much to the annoyance of the fans. Ann, do you need to bang some heads
:38:41. > :38:49.together or is yours one of heads that needs to be banged? We have a
:38:50. > :38:57.stadium which is as people will know not just a football ground, it is an
:38:58. > :39:12.Arena that has a foot `` a hotel, a casino, restaurants, anything you
:39:13. > :39:19.could want. Except a football team. Well, we loved having them there.
:39:20. > :39:25.You are a fan. Joining up a stadium with a football team would not seem
:39:26. > :39:28.that hired. What is the difficulty? Coventry City under its current
:39:29. > :39:35.ownership feel that they cannot lay there, unless they own Compleat
:39:36. > :39:42.unfettered freehold ownership of the Arena and all its surrounds. That is
:39:43. > :39:48.not for sale. Laurence, you are a Conservative MP. Birmingham owned
:39:49. > :39:53.the NEC. Do you think councils should own stuff like this or should
:39:54. > :39:59.they be selling it of? It is not for me to say what happens in Coventry,
:40:00. > :40:03.but I think, brig governance up and down the land, local Government and
:40:04. > :40:08.the Government itself probably own too many things. But I think if
:40:09. > :40:12.council assets are sold off, it should be for capital and then they
:40:13. > :40:20.get revenue from that. One cannot live off capital. So I think there
:40:21. > :40:25.needs to be a sensible approach to these things. In Gloucestershire
:40:26. > :40:33.they owed 80 farms, why should the council owned farms? Farms give
:40:34. > :40:41.people the opportunity to get on the farming ladder or get into the
:40:42. > :40:45.industry perhaps at an early age. But yes, there are those who say
:40:46. > :40:50.that the councils should sell those farms. There has to be a difference
:40:51. > :40:56.between capital and revenue. You cannot live off the capital, as I
:40:57. > :41:01.have said. The offing, our property portfolio is there so that we can
:41:02. > :41:06.make profit from capital. `` very often. But do you think you are
:41:07. > :41:12.going to solve this problem any time soon? It doesn't look like it is
:41:13. > :41:18.going to be sold very quickly, I am sad to say.
:41:19. > :41:21.Coming up: Unemployment is down in the Midlands, the biggest drop in
:41:22. > :41:25.the country, and the number of people in work is up. So, are we
:41:26. > :41:29.building a sustainable recovery or will there be a sting in the tail
:41:30. > :41:33.with added interest? We'll have more on that later in the programme.
:41:34. > :41:36.Is fracking on the way? The official map from the Department of Energy
:41:37. > :41:40.and Climate Change shows most of the Midlands is "under consideration"
:41:41. > :41:42.for shale gas extraction. It also shows that in parts of Shropshire
:41:43. > :41:47.and Staffordshire licences are already in place. But suggestions
:41:48. > :41:50.that there could be a boom here are wide of the mark. Two of the
:41:51. > :41:54.country's leading energy companies have told this programme they've no
:41:55. > :41:57.interest in this part of the world, and our local authorities have given
:41:58. > :41:59.a lukewarm response to the incentives being offered by the
:42:00. > :42:06.Government. Ben Godfrey's been drilling down into the issue.
:42:07. > :42:11.At Keele University in Staffordshire, they've been
:42:12. > :42:18.searching for coal`bed methane. It's a natural gas, sitting in a coal
:42:19. > :42:23.seam some 2,000 feet beneath us. What we would like to do is provide
:42:24. > :42:26.our gas and potentially our electricity from our own resources.
:42:27. > :42:30.The West Midlands is seeing more gas exploration of this kind ` this
:42:31. > :42:34.expert says it's preferred to the controversial technique of fracking,
:42:35. > :42:42.where gas is forced from shale rock. You don't actually have to produce
:42:43. > :42:44.artifactual fractures. Coal is relatively fractured anywhere. ``
:42:45. > :42:47.artificial. Fracking involves drilling into
:42:48. > :42:50.shale and widening tiny cracks, some less than a millimetre wide, which
:42:51. > :42:55.hold molecules of gas. Water, sand and chemicals are pumped in at high
:42:56. > :42:57.pressure ` to flush the gas to the surface.
:42:58. > :43:00.This Government map has caused some confusion. The blue areas show
:43:01. > :43:06.potential sites for shale gas drilling, and it covers most of our
:43:07. > :43:08.region. The yellow areas, which cover parts of Staffordshire and
:43:09. > :43:15.Shropshire, are currently licensed for gas exploration. So will
:43:16. > :43:17.fracking come here? Staffordshire and Shropshire seem
:43:18. > :43:24.primed for fracking. It's in fireball? Probably not, because the
:43:25. > :43:31.shale here has not been the temperature required to make gas. ``
:43:32. > :43:32.is it viable. It is unlikely to have prospective commercial quantities of
:43:33. > :43:35.gas. Dart Energy wants to start fracking
:43:36. > :43:39.in the UK. The multinational operates a third of the 33 licensed
:43:40. > :43:48.sites looking for oil and gas in the West Midlands. But their boss says
:43:49. > :43:55.they won't be fracking here. This is a less attractive area from a
:43:56. > :43:59.technical ex``` perspective. From our work so far we think it is
:44:00. > :44:03.unlikely to be a significant player in unconventional gas.
:44:04. > :44:07.Another energy firm, Cuadrilla ` which drew protests at its Lichfield
:44:08. > :44:10.HQ last year ` is also ruling it out here.
:44:11. > :44:13.Environmental campaigners aren't convinced by those denials ` and
:44:14. > :44:24.claim fracking poses a huge health risk. Once they have dogged the
:44:25. > :44:35.holes, they have already put harmful chemicals into the earth. `` God. ``
:44:36. > :44:38.out. `` dug. Councils in the West Midlands tell
:44:39. > :44:41.us they've had no applications for fracking. But Staffordshire County
:44:42. > :44:44.Council is open to the idea if the benefits are right. We have to look
:44:45. > :44:48.closely at what the Government is offering. That is balanced against
:44:49. > :44:53.the need for cheaper energy. There needs to be real advantages to the
:44:54. > :44:55.community. There's certainly no political
:44:56. > :44:59.consensus ` fracking hasn't been ruled out in Staffordshire, but take
:45:00. > :45:02.a step over the border and it's a different story. Conservative`led
:45:03. > :45:03.Cheshire East Council, which incidentally includes George
:45:04. > :45:08.Osborne's constituency, says fracking is not for them.
:45:09. > :45:12.The Prime Minister believes onshore gas has a big future. As for
:45:13. > :45:17.fracking? Well, you don't need to dig too deep to see that the West
:45:18. > :45:20.Midlands isn't really on the map. Well, joining us now is Professor
:45:21. > :45:22.Alister Scott of Birmingham City University, who's Professor of
:45:23. > :45:26.Spatial Planning and Governance, Birmingham City University. Which
:45:27. > :45:36.I'm guessing means environmental planning expert. You haven't got a
:45:37. > :45:47.problem with fracking, more the way the Government is going about it.
:45:48. > :45:51.What is the difficulty you see? The Government are very positive towards
:45:52. > :45:54.fracking to the extent that they are saying that anybody who opposes it
:45:55. > :46:02.is somehow a rational. And even we have heard Trotskyist. We have heard
:46:03. > :46:06.that fracking is the best thing since sliced bread, mooted by the
:46:07. > :46:08.Government on one hand, and then on the other hand we have environmental
:46:09. > :46:14.campaigners claiming environmental catastrophe. So for people like me
:46:15. > :46:19.it is about thinking about what evidence is in the public domain
:46:20. > :46:26.that allows people to make an informed decision about the impacts
:46:27. > :46:31.of fracking for them. But there is nothing wrong with Government being
:46:32. > :46:36.a cheerleader for technology. Well, we don't actually have at the moment
:46:37. > :46:41.a coherent energy policy. So fracking is being evolved within
:46:42. > :46:46.this gap in policy, and somehow it might appear as a sort of
:46:47. > :46:52.opportunist cash and grab. It doesn't fit neatly with any sort of
:46:53. > :46:55.long`term commitment or strategy. We have had those blue map, which could
:46:56. > :47:03.be explored. The thing that will alarm people? `` do you think. The
:47:04. > :47:10.process you get from an initial application to explore to a final
:47:11. > :47:17.approved let's go fracking, is a context procedure that involves both
:47:18. > :47:24.planning applications `` complex. And also licenses and environmental
:47:25. > :47:29.permits. That goes through different stages, so from initial exploration
:47:30. > :47:37.to assessment and then the final, yes, there are resources. It sounds
:47:38. > :47:43.like there is protection there. What are you worried about? The
:47:44. > :47:48.protection through `` is through a planning process which looks at a
:47:49. > :47:51.particular application. The problem is that the planning system is very
:47:52. > :47:56.good at looking at the impact in a particular area for that
:47:57. > :47:59.application, but bad at looking at the strategic case. If we have the
:48:00. > :48:04.Government saying the case for fracking is unassailable, and David
:48:05. > :48:08.Cameron is saying it is going to happen, that creates a political
:48:09. > :48:13.climate where those strategic issues are already being decided. I am
:48:14. > :48:19.saying that people expressing concern against fracking have no
:48:20. > :48:23.forum or place to enter those discussions in a proper debate,
:48:24. > :48:29.because the planning application process does not include those as
:48:30. > :48:35.valid considerations. Laurence, Ann, would you welcome
:48:36. > :48:42.fracking in Tewkesbury and Coventry? My instinct is no. Because as a
:48:43. > :48:47.council leader I have a duty of care for the people of Coventry, and an
:48:48. > :48:52.expert who wants to do it will tell me it is great, and somebody who is
:48:53. > :48:55.not sure will tell me it isn't. I am no expert, and I am not prepared to
:48:56. > :49:01.take that risk on the half of my people. And Tewkesbury? They should
:49:02. > :49:10.not be any risks taken, everything done should be safe. `` there should
:49:11. > :49:13.not be. We have a company looking to build a nuclear power plant not far
:49:14. > :49:19.outside my constituency. We have to address the fact that the production
:49:20. > :49:24.of electricity from nuclear is gradually reducing, and we know net
:49:25. > :49:29.importers of gas. There may be a squeeze on energy production in the
:49:30. > :49:34.future. We are not going back to living in caves with candles, so we
:49:35. > :49:44.have to produce electricity. You were an energy spokesman. Do you
:49:45. > :49:48.think we handled the debate well? I think the last Government should
:49:49. > :49:52.have brought nuclear replacement on earlier than they did. I think this
:49:53. > :49:58.issue should have been looked at, but we have to move from here. If
:49:59. > :50:02.the Government over selling it? It is not necessarily going to be the
:50:03. > :50:09.solution to all the problems. I am not pretending that it is. The one
:50:10. > :50:14.concern I have got is that David Cameron lobbied effectively against
:50:15. > :50:19.the EU, which was trying to create extra regulation or a directive to
:50:20. > :50:24.take on board the particular issues that are raised by fracking, and in
:50:25. > :50:29.the research that was done as part of the commission's work here, they
:50:30. > :50:34.identified that the kind of regulatory framework had gaps that
:50:35. > :50:38.currently are not provided for, so strategic planning, issues to do
:50:39. > :50:42.with methane and the risk assessment aspects, and therefore it begs the
:50:43. > :50:46.question why is the Government trying to rush this through and
:50:47. > :50:53.actually wipe away regulations, with the idea that Britain's open for
:50:54. > :50:56.business? I don't think it is being rushed through, there has to be
:50:57. > :51:01.serious considerations for the environment. I don't think we need
:51:02. > :51:06.the you to tell us that, we have been carrying out `` we have had a
:51:07. > :51:10.nuclear industry for a long time, one of the first plants in the world
:51:11. > :51:17.was built here. So I don't think we need EU to tell `` Europe to tell us
:51:18. > :51:22.here. You have called this debate a pantomime. Was that about better? It
:51:23. > :51:28.makes for better discussion about the issues. `` was that a bit
:51:29. > :51:31.better. The West Midlands may not be suitable for fracking, but the West
:51:32. > :51:41.Midlands is affected upstream from reverse.
:51:42. > :51:45.Thank you for coming in. Unemployment in the West Midlands is
:51:46. > :51:48.down again, big time. In the last quarter the drop here was bigger
:51:49. > :51:53.than anywhere else. At the same time more people are in jobs ` so what's
:51:54. > :51:56.not to like? As always, the devil's in the detail. The West Midlands has
:51:57. > :52:00.pockets of unemployment that are higher than any other part of the
:52:01. > :52:03.country, and a new survey from the TUC claims it's actually harder to
:52:04. > :52:06.find a job now in this region than it was four years ago. Here's our
:52:07. > :52:07.Business correspondent Peter Plisner.
:52:08. > :52:10.Look beyond Birmingham's ultra`modern buildings, and it's a
:52:11. > :52:13.place where there's a serious unemployment problem. At 16%, the
:52:14. > :52:25.second city jobless total is more than double the UK average. There is
:52:26. > :52:29.not much around here for our age, because you need the experience for
:52:30. > :52:31.it and it is good to get the experience in college.
:52:32. > :52:34.Overall the latest figures show welcome news for the region.
:52:35. > :52:38.Unemployment stands at 222,000 ` that's a drop of 32,000 on the last
:52:39. > :52:42.quarter. But at 8.1% the West Midlands jobless total is still
:52:43. > :52:45.above the national average. A report from the TUC released on Monday
:52:46. > :52:54.suggests it's actually getting harder, not easier, to find a job in
:52:55. > :52:59.the region. When the Chancellor talks about a UK recovery, regions
:53:00. > :53:07.such as the West Midlands are massively disadvantaged. Employment
:53:08. > :53:09.chances have been reduced, and the rebalancing of the economy the
:53:10. > :53:13.Chancellor promised has not taking `` taken place.
:53:14. > :53:16.The picture isn't a simple one, but generally the economic numbers look
:53:17. > :53:18.good. The problem for the Government, is will positive numbers
:53:19. > :53:22.on the page translate into a feel`good factor at the polls?
:53:23. > :53:30.It's what I ask all MPs these days ` forget the numbers, are your
:53:31. > :53:34.constituents feeling this recovery? They do feel that things are slowly
:53:35. > :53:41.getting better. We came from a very difficult situation that did hit a
:53:42. > :53:47.lot of people. I think the Prime Minister has made it clear we are
:53:48. > :53:50.not clear yet, but I think dude `` things are improving. We have on
:53:51. > :53:55.deployment figures falling and employment figures increasing and
:53:56. > :54:06.very much so in the private sector. `` employment figures. So what about
:54:07. > :54:09.the Midlands being left behind? There has always been a special
:54:10. > :54:15.challenge for the inner cities, and that is true today as it was 30
:54:16. > :54:19.years ago. But that doesn't mean we should not try to improve the
:54:20. > :54:24.economic situation for people throughout the country. Yes, there
:54:25. > :54:27.are pockets of the country where it is more difficult to find jobs,
:54:28. > :54:31.where it is more difficult to make your way through. I fully denies
:54:32. > :54:39.that. But over all I think the country `` full Iraqi lives that. I
:54:40. > :54:43.think the country is `` I fully recognise that. We came from a very
:54:44. > :54:49.difficult situation. In Coventry do you recognise that up the
:54:50. > :54:53.assessment? If I were to knock doors in my ward until people they are a
:54:54. > :54:58.lot but of land they were last year, I would have to run pretty
:54:59. > :55:05.quickly. `` better off than they were. Entry has unemployment of 9%,
:55:06. > :55:13.so we are above average, `` Coventry, and we are working really
:55:14. > :55:21.hard locally with our job shop to try and place people. But we are
:55:22. > :55:28.working from a base, don't forget, way back in the 80s I watched
:55:29. > :55:33.Coventry lose something like 60,000 jobs in the space of six months. We
:55:34. > :55:38.get hit every time there is a downturn. It is always the inner
:55:39. > :55:44.cities, the people who cannot afford it. The Government's been making a
:55:45. > :55:56.big play of these figures. Perhaps in a few months though, people might
:55:57. > :56:01.start to feel it. If tomorrow, I honestly believe these were the
:56:02. > :56:06.right policies `` I believe these were the right policies, I would be
:56:07. > :56:11.saying, hands up, we got it wrong. Yes, there are new job
:56:12. > :56:14.opportunities, zero hours jobs, temporary jobs. There are people
:56:15. > :56:19.working full`time who cannot make ends meet. I am a fourth generation
:56:20. > :56:27.of women who have been able to buy their own property. My daughter has
:56:28. > :56:37.bought those. Sadly I wonder if my ground `` granddaughter will be able
:56:38. > :56:41.to buy those. And speaking of jobs, it's time to
:56:42. > :56:44.meet the woman taking over this one next week. BBC Midlands Today's
:56:45. > :56:47.Elizabeth Glinka has our regular round`up of the political week in
:56:48. > :56:50.the Midlands in 60 seconds. With the economy going up a gear,
:56:51. > :56:54.the Treasury's Chief Secretary Danny Alexander was in Solihull to have a
:56:55. > :56:57.look around the home of the booming car makers Jaguar Land Rover.
:56:58. > :57:00.The Labour MP for Perry Barr Khalid Mahmood is recovering after a kidney
:57:01. > :57:03.transplant operation at Birmingham's Queen Elizabeth Hospital.
:57:04. > :57:07.MPs have voted to release secret papers in the case of the Shrewsbury
:57:08. > :57:10.24. The group ` including actor Ricky Tomlinson ` were convicted for
:57:11. > :57:21.picket line disturbances in a builder's strike in the early '70s.
:57:22. > :57:26.The Stasi published their file after the Berlin Wall came down. I think
:57:27. > :57:29.we can. `` their files. West Brom's Nicolas Anelka faces a
:57:30. > :57:32.ban, and shirt sponsor Zoopla is ending its deal with the club over
:57:33. > :57:34.the player's goal celebration ` which is regarded by some
:57:35. > :57:37.anti`Semitic. And a Conservative Party report into
:57:38. > :57:40.a Nazi`themed stag do organised by Cannock MP Aidan Burley has
:57:41. > :57:48.described his conduct as "offensive and unacceptable."
:57:49. > :58:05.And Elizabeth Glinka will be here in this very seat for next Sunday's
:58:06. > :58:10.programme. Some said Aidan Power `` Aidan Burley's stag party was just a
:58:11. > :58:18.bit of fun. I used to say to my children, can you see anybody
:58:19. > :58:28.laughing? I don't think it was fun. Ian Austin said Aidan's version was
:58:29. > :58:31.misleading. I will leave it between Aidan and the Chief Whip to discuss
:58:32. > :58:37.it. Nobody should do anything in public life that is likely to offend
:58:38. > :58:45.anybody else. The details are to have to leave to those two. Nicolas
:58:46. > :58:58.Anelka, was that just stupidity as well? I don't know anything about
:58:59. > :59:01.him except, and it is very true, if you are in the public eye and it
:59:02. > :59:07.doesn't matter what job you do, you have to think very carefully about
:59:08. > :59:15.your actions and reactions. Because it has caused's if you are Joe
:59:16. > :59:20.average on the street, perhaps nobody will take any notice. This
:59:21. > :59:25.has cost West Bromwich ?3 million. That is a huge amount. You were
:59:26. > :59:32.involved in Northern Ireland. Symbols matter, don't they? Yes, and
:59:33. > :59:36.it won't think is to have respect `` the important thing is to have
:59:37. > :59:38.respect for the other side's viewpoints and history, whilst
:59:39. > :59:47.retaining the right to celebrate your own tradition. In Northern
:59:48. > :59:50.Ireland there is the duty to care for each other's views, but also
:59:51. > :59:56.respect your own tradition and celebrated.
:59:57. > :00:00.Many thanks to Laurence and to Ann for joining us today. Next Friday
:00:01. > :00:03.BBC Radio Stoke will be looking at what HS2 will mean for Staffordshire
:00:04. > :00:06.as the public consultation over the controversial rail project comes to
:00:07. > :00:10.an end. And on BBC WM tomorrow morning, Pete Morgan at Breakfast
:00:11. > :00:12.will be looking into a new report that says Birmingham's got more
:00:13. > :00:15.people claiming Jobseeker's Allowance than any other big UK city
:00:16. > :00:19.` something we touched on earlier. But for us for this week it's the
:00:20. > :00:21.end of the line, I'm afraid, and that can mean only one thing ` it's
:00:22. > :00:41.time to rejoin Andrew Neil. constituency, very pleased. Andrew,
:00:42. > :00:44.back to you. UKIP leader Nigel Farage is never
:00:45. > :00:48.far away from controversy, but this week he's been outdoing himself He
:00:49. > :00:51.was hit over the head with a placard by a protester in Kent, provoked
:00:52. > :00:54.outrage by saying women with children are worth less to city
:00:55. > :01:01.firms, and said the ban on owning handguns was 'crackers'. He also
:01:02. > :01:05.seemed less than sure of his party's own policies when I interviewed him
:01:06. > :01:08.on the Daily Politics. And the story that got everyone talking was the
:01:09. > :01:13.suggestion by a UKIP councillor that flooding is linked to gay marriage.
:01:14. > :01:20.We'll talk about all of that in a moment, but first, over to Nigel
:01:21. > :01:24.with the weather. Weather for all areas of the British Isles but
:01:25. > :01:30.definitely not "Bongo Bongo Land." You may have heard about a storm in
:01:31. > :01:36.a tea cup developed when you kip councillor in Oxfordshire blamed the
:01:37. > :01:41.floods on the gay marriage Bill The old party is focusing on the view of
:01:42. > :01:48.UKIP members like him, even though he had said a sell yuj of things
:01:49. > :01:56.before when a Tory councillor. How quickly things change depending on
:01:57. > :02:03.when the blouse. There are occasional barmy views by people of
:02:04. > :02:07.all persuasions. In Whitby a Labour councillor claimed of fathered a
:02:08. > :02:18.child with an extra terrorist ral, and said his real mother was a
:02:19. > :02:24.foot green alien. And in Wales a councillor
:02:25. > :02:32.thinking about heading off for the slopes, there were flurries of
:02:33. > :02:37.embarrassment for the Tories after Aidan Burly organised a Nazi skiing
:02:38. > :02:44.party in a resort. Anyone heading to Brussels, perhaps
:02:45. > :02:48.on the gravy train, watch out for hot air.
:02:49. > :02:56.In Britain temperatures are rising ahead of the European elections in
:02:57. > :03:00.May. It could get stormy, so advise light aircraft. Watch out for
:03:01. > :03:05.outbreaks of common sense, and no chance of cyclonic fruit cakes. Back
:03:06. > :03:10.to you, Andrew, with the rest of the Sunday Politics.
:03:11. > :03:15.Nick, if it was any other party that had bon through the past week it
:03:16. > :03:20.would be in meltdown. And maybe it is harming UKIP and maybe it isn't.
:03:21. > :03:26.What do you think? That just shows, that great weather forecast, Prince
:03:27. > :03:31.Charles now has a rival to be an excellent weather forecaster, as
:03:32. > :03:36.does the Duchess of Cornwall. It shows why Nigel Farage is the fefr
:03:37. > :03:40.candidate to the European elections. Our invitation to the British people
:03:41. > :03:44.to kick the establishment. The establishment have spent five years
:03:45. > :03:49.that the European Parliament is a waste of time, so who are you going
:03:50. > :03:55.to vote for? A Nigel Farage type of person. What was important about
:03:56. > :03:59.your eadviceration of Nigel Farage on Daily Politics is that when it
:04:00. > :04:02.came to the substance, they flounder. But the point about that
:04:03. > :04:08.party is they may have the thinnest set of policies, but people know
:04:09. > :04:15.what they stand for more than any other parties - get out of Europe, a
:04:16. > :04:20.grammar school in every town. If any other leading politician called for
:04:21. > :04:24.an end to the ban on handguns, at a time when we've seen these appalling
:04:25. > :04:28.gun deaths in the United States now almost one every week in some
:04:29. > :04:38.terrible siege in a school. It would be a crisis. It seems to wash off
:04:39. > :04:43.him. He's got congenital foot-and-mouthitis. Straight into
:04:44. > :04:49.another wild nothing to do with why people might vote UKIP. I don't
:04:50. > :04:54.think people are desperate to have handgun licences back in this
:04:55. > :04:59.country. It is such an unusual phenomenon, UKIP, that if this was a
:05:00. > :05:05.Tory or a Labour or a Lib Dem saying it, we've seen the damage done to
:05:06. > :05:09.the Lib Dems on a much more serious manner, we would say this is
:05:10. > :05:14.terminal. But maybe it adds to this image that we are not like the other
:05:15. > :05:20.parties. I think that is it. We keep waiting for these scandals and
:05:21. > :05:26.embarrassments to do damage to UKIP's poll ratings, but it's not
:05:27. > :05:30.working. It is ultimately because if you are an antiestablishment party,
:05:31. > :05:35.if you are an anti-system party the rules of the game which apply to the
:05:36. > :05:41.establishment parties don't apply to you. And the more ramshackle and
:05:42. > :05:47.embarrassing you are, the more authentic you seem. It what be take
:05:48. > :05:53.something for them not to finish second in May. Do they spend the
:05:54. > :05:56.following 12 months sinking in the poll snoos And George Osborne's
:05:57. > :05:59.strategy is fame everything as Labour versus the Conservatives The
:06:00. > :06:06.electorate will have their fun in May. Maybe the Tories will be beat
:06:07. > :06:11.into third place but in thejection is that -- but in the general
:06:12. > :06:19.election it is Labour versus the Tories. The Conservative Party will
:06:20. > :06:24.run around, 46 letters to Graham Brady, a leadership contest. That
:06:25. > :06:27.sort of scenario. UKIP, if it rules well in the European elections,
:06:28. > :06:34.could cause big trouble for Mr Cameron and Mr Clegg couldn't it?
:06:35. > :06:39.The big point about this, David Cameron said this is not a political
:06:40. > :06:44.party but a pressure group. This is the way to look at UKIP, and the way
:06:45. > :06:51.it is used by people in the right of the party, who say we have to do
:06:52. > :06:58.this. I like the policy of painting the trains in their old liveries. It
:06:59. > :07:08.would be like my old train set. I like the bigger passports.
:07:09. > :07:16.Pre-GNER... And London and Midland. I used to be a train spotter.
:07:17. > :07:22.Gordon Birtwhistle has been on the phone. Good to know you are watching
:07:23. > :07:27.but pity you are not here. He wanted to clarify he had constituency
:07:28. > :07:31.commitments to prevent him coming on the show to talk about becoming
:07:32. > :07:34.leader of the party, but he didn't dispute anything we said on the
:07:35. > :07:37.show. Yesterday, Ed Balls said that
:07:38. > :07:40.housing investment will be a central priority for the next Labour
:07:41. > :07:44.Government. It's a big issue, as the lack of new homes pushes up the the
:07:45. > :07:47.price of owning or renting. Well, tomorrow the Tories will announce
:07:48. > :07:53.what they say is the most ambitious programme of affordable
:07:54. > :07:56.housebuilding for 20 years. The Government sees housing as a really
:07:57. > :08:04.important part of the economy. That's why we are announcing a 23
:08:05. > :08:08.billion package for 165,000 new affordable homes. So individual
:08:09. > :08:13.builders, councils, housing associations can bid for that money.
:08:14. > :08:17.Phase one, which we are halfway through at the moment, we've built
:08:18. > :08:25.170,000 houses. 99,000 already coming out of the ground, so we ve
:08:26. > :08:30.made real progress on that. So, 165,000 new, affordable homes. It is
:08:31. > :08:34.a lot. Let me add three more words. Over three years. It is not such a
:08:35. > :08:38.lot. It is not, and Labour's commitment is 200,000 homes a year
:08:39. > :08:44.and even that isn't enough. The problem here is that the vest
:08:45. > :08:47.interest is with people who already have homes. They have a vote in the
:08:48. > :08:52.system through the planning regulations. In London there is a
:08:53. > :08:57.gap in the hedge through Richmond Park through which you should be
:08:58. > :09:01.able to see St Paul's Cathedral That's why you cannot build homes
:09:02. > :09:08.where you want them. I don't think we want to build homes over Richmond
:09:09. > :09:13.Park. He wasn't saying that. That's dies an Tyne -- that's Byzantine.
:09:14. > :09:18.You've got to deal with supply, which is why Labour is talking about
:09:19. > :09:24.200,000 a year, and what George Osborne has done with supply is
:09:25. > :09:28.helping with demand. We know the Help to Buy Scheme is pretty
:09:29. > :09:35.dangerous, and Mark Carney is keen to put the break on that. If you are
:09:36. > :09:39.to deal with supply, you have to do radical things. Chris Huhne talked
:09:40. > :09:43.about on brownfield sites you can tax people who are holding the land
:09:44. > :09:48.as if the development has taken place. Then if you are really going
:09:49. > :09:52.to deal with it you have to talk about the greenfield sites, and you
:09:53. > :09:56.have to deal with the garden cities argument, which is too much for the
:09:57. > :09:59.Tories. All the parties seem to agree building new houses is a
:10:00. > :10:04.political winner. I hope that they are right. I'm not sure they are.
:10:05. > :10:09.The housing market is the example of what economists call the insider
:10:10. > :10:14.in-outsider problem. People who are already homeowners have no rational
:10:15. > :10:19.incentive to vote for more housing stock. Even if you leave aside the
:10:20. > :10:23.Conservative arable objections, if you are a homeowner there is an
:10:24. > :10:27.interest to stick with the planning promise that we have. So then we are
:10:28. > :10:31.stuck between a rock and a hard place. Not only are we growing at
:10:32. > :10:37.the moment but our population is growing. I've seen projects that in
:10:38. > :10:41.quite quickly we will overtake Germany and become the largest
:10:42. > :10:46.populated country in Europe. If that's the case we've got to build
:10:47. > :10:50.homes. We have. If you look at Tower Hamlets in London, the population is
:10:51. > :10:55.r ging higher than the number of dwelling. Classically the theory's
:10:56. > :11:01.been young people are most affected by this and they don't vote much.
:11:02. > :11:08.But when their parents have young Johnny stuck at home at 37, that's
:11:09. > :11:11.an electoral issue. That's why the garden cities project is
:11:12. > :11:16.interesting, because they finance themselves. You zone it for
:11:17. > :11:22.development, it is worth ?2 million an acre and then you can build on
:11:23. > :11:27.it. But who is going to want the greenfield sites gone. And how
:11:28. > :11:32.quickly can we build garden cities today? Some were started before the
:11:33. > :11:37.Town and Country Planning Act. I've read stats about the way Chinese and
:11:38. > :11:41.Japanese are building houses and they were slower than that. Here's a
:11:42. > :11:46.thought, sticking on the housing theme. Ed Miliband came up with the
:11:47. > :11:51.energy freeze, a populist interventionist move. Then the use
:11:52. > :11:55.it or lose it to land developers. Then breaking up the banks. Now the
:11:56. > :12:01.50p tax rate. How much would you put on Labour coming up for rent
:12:02. > :12:06.controls? That's already a big split. They are split already on it.
:12:07. > :12:10.They have. In London it is a popular policy. It might not play well in
:12:11. > :12:14.the rest of the country. I would say 50-50 on that. I think Labour
:12:15. > :12:18.supporting rent controls like the Tories having a go at welfare. The
:12:19. > :12:22.policy may be individually popular but it sends an impression about the
:12:23. > :12:26.party which might be less attract active. It confirms underlying
:12:27. > :12:30.suspicions that vote these guys into power and suddenly they are
:12:31. > :12:35.tampering with the private economy. The memories of the '70s when
:12:36. > :12:38.Governments tried and failed to do that. It is riskier than a
:12:39. > :12:43.superficial reading of the polls would suggest. One to watch? I think
:12:44. > :12:49.they are looking at it. That was the key message of the Ed Balls speech
:12:50. > :12:54.on housing, is looking at supply and how you get to that 200,000 figure a
:12:55. > :12:58.year, which is substantially more than what Kris Hopkins is talking
:12:59. > :13:03.about. What we didn't get to talk about, remember we had Michael
:13:04. > :13:06.Wilshaw on, the Chief Inspector of Schools. We all consumed was Mr
:13:07. > :13:10.Gove's man, the Education Secretary's man. Now according to
:13:11. > :13:14.the Sunday Times he is spitting blood about the way Mr Gove and his
:13:15. > :13:18.office are speaking about him behind the scenes. We've checked the quotes
:13:19. > :13:23.and he stands by them, so I think we'll have to have the head of
:13:24. > :13:26.Ofsted back on the programme. If you are watching, we're here. All that
:13:27. > :13:30.to the Lib Dems who didn't come on today.
:13:31. > :13:34.That's all for today. Thanks to all my guests. The Daily Politics is
:13:35. > :13:37.back on Monday at midday on BBC Two, and I'll be here again next week.
:13:38. > :14:15.Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.
:14:16. > :14:23.Britain, with 120,000 soldiers is now at war with Germany
:14:24. > :14:33.This would be the first truly modern war.
:14:34. > :14:37.and resolve of entire populations against each other.