:00:38. > :00:46.morning, folks, welcome to the Sunday Politics. Rising flood water,
:00:47. > :00:50.a battered coastline, the winter storms forced the Government to take
:00:51. > :00:56.control. Is it hanging the Environment Agency out to dry?
:00:57. > :00:59.Embarrassment for the Government is the Immigration Minister resigns
:01:00. > :01:04.after he discovered he was employing a cleaner with no right to work here
:01:05. > :01:09.for seven years. Ed Miliband promised an end to what he called
:01:10. > :01:12.the machine politics of union fixes in the Labour Party,
:01:13. > :01:20.Coming up in the Midlands... Yet more council spending cuts will be
:01:21. > :01:22.decided this week, could domestic violence helpline is be scaled
:01:23. > :01:26.In London after two days of disruption in the capital the Mayor
:01:27. > :01:36.Boris Johnson will be talking to ask about strife on the Underground All
:01:37. > :01:42.of that and after a week of very public coalition spats can David
:01:43. > :01:47.Cameron and Nick Clegg keep the coalition show on the road? Two
:01:48. > :01:52.senior party figures will go head to head. And with me, Helen Lewis, Nick
:01:53. > :01:57.Watt and Iain Martin who would not know they Somerset Levels from their
:01:58. > :02:02.Norfolk Broads, but that will not stop them tweeting their thoughts.
:02:03. > :02:08.We start with the strange Case of the Immigration Minister, his
:02:09. > :02:13.cleaner and some lost documents Yesterday Mark Harper tendered his
:02:14. > :02:15.resignation, telling the media he had discovered the cleaner who
:02:16. > :02:20.worked for him for seven years did not have the right to work in the
:02:21. > :02:25.UK. The Communities Secretary Eric Pickles said he had done the
:02:26. > :02:30.honourable thing. I was sad to see him go, he was a strong minister.
:02:31. > :02:37.Had he been a member of the public he would not have done anything
:02:38. > :02:41.wrong, but he set himself a very high standard and he felt that
:02:42. > :02:46.standard and honourably stood down. This would seem like a good
:02:47. > :02:50.resignation, maybe unlike the Baroness Scotland one years ago on a
:02:51. > :02:57.similar issue, but have we been told the full story? We wait to see that.
:02:58. > :03:02.Labour have picked up saying he is an honourable man, that the reason
:03:03. > :03:06.why he resigned is these very owners checks that landlords and employers
:03:07. > :03:13.will have to perform on employees over their documentation. The most
:03:14. > :03:16.interesting line is that, we do not require them to be experts or spot
:03:17. > :03:23.anything other than an obvious forgery. The suggestion that there
:03:24. > :03:29.is the document he was presented with originality, which he lost was
:03:30. > :03:34.on home office paper and was perhaps not entirely accurate. That is the
:03:35. > :03:38.embarrassment. He is the minister putting through a bill that will
:03:39. > :03:43.demand tougher checks on people and he himself did not do enough checks
:03:44. > :03:47.to discover she was illegal. There is an odd bit where he involves the
:03:48. > :03:53.home office later to check her out as well. He writes a resignation
:03:54. > :03:58.letter and he has to hold himself to pay higher standard. He has done the
:03:59. > :04:03.David Laws approach to this, resign quickly and he can come back. David
:04:04. > :04:12.Cameron wants him to return swiftly to the frontbenchers. He is a state
:04:13. > :04:20.school educated lad. He is the kind of Tory that the Tories are in short
:04:21. > :04:24.supply of. He is a rising star. I would caution on this idea that it
:04:25. > :04:30.is customary that whenever anyone resigns, it is always thought they
:04:31. > :04:35.will come straight back into office. If only the outside world worked
:04:36. > :04:39.like that. It is not, in a company if the HR person resigns, he is such
:04:40. > :04:47.a great chap he will be back next week. There is a silver lining for
:04:48. > :04:53.David Cameron is he has been able to move Harriet Bond up as he moves
:04:54. > :05:00.everyone up. But nobody will see her in the whips office because she is
:05:01. > :05:06.not allowed to appear on television. And if you three want to resign Do
:05:07. > :05:13.not hate you are coming back next week. But we will do it with honour.
:05:14. > :05:17.It has been a hellish week for residents of coastal areas with more
:05:18. > :05:21.storms bringing more flooding and after Prince Charles visited the
:05:22. > :05:24.Somerset Levels on Tuesday the Government has been keen to show it
:05:25. > :05:32.has got a grip on the situation at last.
:05:33. > :05:36.For last weekend's Sunday Politics I made the watery journey to the
:05:37. > :05:43.village of Muchelney, cut off for a whole month. Now everyone has been
:05:44. > :05:49.dropping in. First it was Prince Charles on a park bench pulled by a
:05:50. > :06:02.tractor. He waded into the row about how the floods have been handled.
:06:03. > :06:08.Next it was the chair of the Environment Agency, Lord Smith, who
:06:09. > :06:14.faced angry residents. Sought the river is out. That is precisely what
:06:15. > :06:18.we are going to do. Where he faced, a resident, he did not need that
:06:19. > :06:25.many. David Cameron went for a look as well and gave the region what it
:06:26. > :06:30.wanted, more pumps, more money and in the long-term the return of
:06:31. > :06:35.dredging. There are lessons to learn. The pause in bridging that
:06:36. > :06:39.took place from the late 1990s was wrong and we need to get dredging
:06:40. > :06:44.again. When the water levels come down and it is safe to dredge, we
:06:45. > :06:50.will dredging to make sure these rivers and stitches can carry a
:06:51. > :06:54.better capacity. The Environment Secretary Owen Paterson has not been
:06:55. > :06:59.seen again because he is recovering from emergency eye surgery. In the
:07:00. > :07:07.meantime the floodwaters rose ever higher. Some residents were told to
:07:08. > :07:12.evacuate. In Devon the railway was washed away by the waves leaving a
:07:13. > :07:16.big gap in the network. Look at the weather this weekend. If you can
:07:17. > :07:21.believe it, the storms keep rolling in. What is the long-term solution
:07:22. > :07:27.for flood prone areas of the country? I am joined from Oxford by
:07:28. > :07:34.the editor of The Ecologist magazine, Oliver Tickell, and by
:07:35. > :07:40.local MP Tessa Munt. Tessa, let me come to you first. What do you now
:07:41. > :07:46.want the Government to do? I want it to make sure it does exactly as it
:07:47. > :07:48.promises and delivers what every farmer and landowner around here
:07:49. > :07:54.knows should have been done for years. First, to solve the problems
:07:55. > :07:58.we have right now, but to make sure there is money in the bank for us to
:07:59. > :08:06.carry on doing the maintenance that is necessary. Was it a mistake not
:08:07. > :08:10.to do the dredging? When the waters start to subside does dredging
:08:11. > :08:18.become a key part of this? Yes, of course. It is something the farmers
:08:19. > :08:23.have been asking for four years When you wander along a footpath by
:08:24. > :08:29.a river and you see trees growing and there is 60% of the capacity
:08:30. > :08:35.only because there is silt, it needs to have a pretty dramatic action
:08:36. > :08:41.right now and then we need to make sure the maintenance is ongoing
:08:42. > :08:48.Oliver Tickell, was it a mistake to stop the dredging? If the dredging
:08:49. > :08:53.had happened, the land would not be covered in water for so long?
:08:54. > :08:59.Clearly it is necessary to do at least some dredging on these rivers
:09:00. > :09:03.and in particular because these rivers are well above ground level.
:09:04. > :09:08.They are carrying water that comes down off the hills well above the
:09:09. > :09:15.level of the flood plain on the Somerset Levels. They naturally tend
:09:16. > :09:21.to silt up. But the key thing is that is only a small part of the
:09:22. > :09:26.overall solution. What we need is a catchment wide approach to improve
:09:27. > :09:30.infiltration upstream and you also need to manage the flood plain on
:09:31. > :09:38.the levels and upstream so as to have active flood plain that can
:09:39. > :09:42.store water. This idea it is just about dredging is erroneous.
:09:43. > :09:48.Dredging is a part of it, but it is a catchment wide solution. Dredging
:09:49. > :09:56.is only a small part of the solution he says. Yes, of course it is. But
:09:57. > :10:01.look here. With the farmer is locally, the landowners, they know
:10:02. > :10:06.this land will carry water for a few weeks of the year, that is not a
:10:07. > :10:11.problem. But this water has to be taken away and there is a very good
:10:12. > :10:15.system of drainage and it works perfectly well. In my area there are
:10:16. > :10:20.serious problems because the dredging has not taken place. There
:10:21. > :10:27.are lunatic regulations around were when they do do some of dredging,
:10:28. > :10:32.the Environment Agency is asked to take it away because it is
:10:33. > :10:37.considered toxic waste. This is barmy. We need to take the stuff out
:10:38. > :10:43.of the rivers and build the banks up so we create protection in the
:10:44. > :10:48.future. We have to make sure the dredging is done but make sure the
:10:49. > :10:54.drainage works well and we have pumps in places and we have
:10:55. > :11:02.floodgates put onto the rivers. We need to make sure repairs are done
:11:03. > :11:07.more quickly. All right, let me go back to Oliver Tickell. Is it not
:11:08. > :11:11.the case a lot of people on your side of the argument would like to
:11:12. > :11:16.see lands like the Somerset Levels return to natural habitat? Looe I
:11:17. > :11:21.would like a degree of that, but that does not mean the whole place
:11:22. > :11:30.needs to turn into wilderness so it will remain agricultural landscape.
:11:31. > :11:37.Everybody, all the interested parties who signed up to a document
:11:38. > :11:40.called vision 2034 the Somerset Levels envisages most of the area of
:11:41. > :11:46.the Somerset Levels being turned over to extensive grassland and that
:11:47. > :11:53.is what it is best suited for. Let me put that to Tessa Munt. Have you
:11:54. > :12:01.signed up to this where you will end up with extensive grassland? I have
:12:02. > :12:06.seen it, but grass does not grow if water is sitting on this land for
:12:07. > :12:12.weeks and weeks. What you have to remember is a lot of the levels are
:12:13. > :12:15.managed very carefully and they are conservation land and that means
:12:16. > :12:22.cattle are allowed to go out at certain times of the year and in
:12:23. > :12:30.certain numbers. It is well managed. Do you accept it should return to
:12:31. > :12:35.grassland? Grassland, fine, but you cannot call land grassland in the
:12:36. > :12:40.flipping water is on it so long that nothing grows. It is no good at
:12:41. > :12:46.doing that. You have got to make sure it is managed properly.
:12:47. > :12:52.Drainage has been taking place on this land for centuries. It is the
:12:53. > :12:56.case the system is there, but it needs to be maintained properly and
:12:57. > :13:01.we have to have fewer ridiculous regulations that stop action. Last
:13:02. > :13:06.year the flooding minister agreed dredging should take place and
:13:07. > :13:10.everything stopped. Now we have got the promise from the Prime Minister
:13:11. > :13:14.and I thank Prince Charles for that. Is it not time to let the local
:13:15. > :13:18.people run their land rather than being told what to do by the
:13:19. > :13:25.Environment Agency, central Government and the European Union?
:13:26. > :13:31.The internal drainage boards have considerable power in all of this.
:13:32. > :13:35.They wanted to dredge and they were not allowed to. The farmers want to
:13:36. > :13:42.dredge that is what is going to happen, but they have signed up to a
:13:43. > :13:46.comprehensive vision of catchment management and of environmental
:13:47. > :13:51.improvement turning the Somerset Levels into a world-class haven for
:13:52. > :13:56.wildlife. It is not much good if your house is underwater. The
:13:57. > :14:01.farmers themselves, the RSPB, the drainage boards, they have all
:14:02. > :14:06.signed up to this. The real question now is how do we implement that
:14:07. > :14:15.vision? You give the money to the drainage boards. At the moment they
:14:16. > :14:19.pay 27% of their money and have been doing so for years and years and
:14:20. > :14:23.this is farmers' money and it has been going to the drainage boards
:14:24. > :14:28.and they pay the Environment Agency who are meant to be dredging and
:14:29. > :14:33.that has not happened. We have to leave it there. We have run out of
:14:34. > :14:37.time. Last week saw the Labour Party
:14:38. > :14:41.adopts an historic change with its relationship with the unions.
:14:42. > :14:47.Changes to the rules that propelled Ed Miliband to the top. Ed Miliband
:14:48. > :14:52.was elected Labour leader in 20 0 by the electoral college system which
:14:53. > :14:56.gives unions, party members and MPs one third of votes each. This would
:14:57. > :15:01.be changed into a simpler one member, one vote system. A union
:15:02. > :15:07.member would have to become an affiliated member of the party. They
:15:08. > :15:15.would have to opt in and pay ?3 a year. But the unions would have 50%
:15:16. > :15:19.of the vote at the conference and around one third of the seats on the
:15:20. > :15:24.National executive committee. The proposals are a financial gamble as
:15:25. > :15:28.well. It is estimated the party could face a drop in funding of up
:15:29. > :15:34.to ?5 million a year when the changes are fully implemented in
:15:35. > :15:38.five years. The leader of the Unite trade union has welcomed the report
:15:39. > :15:46.saying it is music to his ears. The package will be voted on at a
:15:47. > :15:48.special one of conference in March. And the Shadow Business Secretary
:15:49. > :15:58.Chuka Umunna joins me now for the Sunday Interview. Welcome back. In
:15:59. > :16:02.what way will the unions have less power and influence in the Labour
:16:03. > :16:06.Party? This is about ensuring individual trade union members have
:16:07. > :16:12.a direct relationship with the Labour Party. At the moment the
:16:13. > :16:16.monies that come to us are decided at a top level, the general
:16:17. > :16:22.secretaries determine this, whether the individual members want us to be
:16:23. > :16:27.in receipt of those monies or not so we are going to change that so that
:16:28. > :16:31.affiliation fees follow the consent of individual members. Secondly we
:16:32. > :16:39.want to make sure the individual trade union members, people who
:16:40. > :16:48.teach our children, power via - fantastic British businesses, we
:16:49. > :16:52.want them to make an active choice, and we are also recognising that in
:16:53. > :17:00.this day and age not everybody wants to become a member of a political
:17:01. > :17:06.party. We haven't got much time The unions still have 50% of the vote at
:17:07. > :17:22.Labour conferences, there will be the single most important vote, more
:17:23. > :17:33.member -- union members will vote than nonunion members, their power
:17:34. > :17:41.has not diminished at all, has it? In relation to the other parts of
:17:42. > :17:44.the group of people who will be voting in a future leadership
:17:45. > :17:50.contest, we are seeking to move towards more of a one member, one
:17:51. > :17:57.vote process. At the moment we have the absurd situation where I, as a
:17:58. > :18:05.member of Parliament, my vote will count for 1000. MPs are losing. .
:18:06. > :18:12.They still have a lot of power. I am a member of the GMB union and the
:18:13. > :18:17.Unite union, also a member of the Fabians as well so I get free votes
:18:18. > :18:20.on top of my vote as a member of Parliament. We are moving to a
:18:21. > :18:26.system where I will have one vote and that is an important part of
:18:27. > :18:30.this. You asked how many people would be casting their votes. The
:18:31. > :18:36.old system, up to 2.8 million ballot papers were sent out with prepaid
:18:37. > :18:46.envelopes for people to return their papers were sent out with prepaid
:18:47. > :18:51.turnout. The idea that you are going to see a big change... Even if
:18:52. > :19:04.your individual party members. In one vital way, your purse strings,
:19:05. > :19:05.your individual party members. In the unions will be more powerful
:19:06. > :19:16.than ever because at the moment they have to hand over 8 million to
:19:17. > :19:18.than ever because at the moment they fraction of that now. They will get
:19:19. > :19:28.to keep that money, but then come the election you go to them and give
:19:29. > :19:36.them a lot of money -- and they will have you then. They won't have us,
:19:37. > :19:39.as you put it! The idea that individual trade union members don't
:19:40. > :19:44.have their own view, their own voice, and just do what their
:19:45. > :19:48.general secretaries do is absurd. They will make their own decision,
:19:49. > :19:54.and we want them to make that and not have their leadership decide
:19:55. > :19:59.that for them. Let me go to the money. The Labour Party manifesto
:20:00. > :20:06.will be reflecting the interests of Britain, and the idea that somehow
:20:07. > :20:10.people can say we are not going to give you this money unless you do
:20:11. > :20:14.this or that, we will give you a policy agenda which is appropriate
:20:15. > :20:19.for the British people, regardless of what implications that may have
:20:20. > :20:24.financially. They will have more seats than anybody else in the NEC
:20:25. > :20:30.and they will hold the purse strings. They will be the
:20:31. > :20:35.determining factor. They won't be. Unite is advocating a 70% rate of
:20:36. > :20:44.income tax, there is no way we will have that in our manifesto. Unite is
:20:45. > :20:57.advocating taking back contracts and no compensation basis, we would not
:20:58. > :21:07.-- there is no way we would do that. How many chief executives of the
:21:08. > :21:15.FTSE 100 are backing Labour? We have lots of chief executives backing
:21:16. > :21:18.Labour. I don't know the exact number. Ed Miliband has just placed
:21:19. > :21:30.an important business person in the House of Lords, the former chief
:21:31. > :21:39.executive of the ITV, Bill Grimsey. How many? You can only name one
:21:40. > :21:45.Bill Grimsey, there is also John Mills. Anyone who is currently
:21:46. > :21:49.chairman of the chief executive With the greatest respect, you are
:21:50. > :21:55.talking about less than half the percent of business leaders in our
:21:56. > :22:01.country, we have almost 5 million businesses, not all FTSE 100
:22:02. > :22:07.businesses, not all listed, and we are trying to get people from across
:22:08. > :22:22.the country of all different shapes and sizes. Let's widen it to the
:22:23. > :22:28.FTSE 250. That is 250 out of 5 million companies. The largest ones,
:22:29. > :22:33.they make the profits and provide the jobs. Two thirds of private
:22:34. > :22:37.sector jobs in this country come from small and medium-sized
:22:38. > :22:40.businesses, and small and medium-sized businesses are an
:22:41. > :22:51.important part of a large companies supply chains. So you cannot name a
:22:52. > :22:58.single chairman from the FTSE 2 0, correct? I don't know all the
:22:59. > :23:09.chairman. Are you going to fight the next election without a single boss
:23:10. > :23:12.of a FTSE 250 company? I have named some important business people, but
:23:13. > :23:22.the most important thing is that we are not coming out with a manifesto
:23:23. > :23:32.for particular interests, but for broader interest. Let me show you,
:23:33. > :23:46.Digby Jones says Labour's policy is, "if it creates wealth, let's kick
:23:47. > :23:53.it" . Another quote, that it borders on predatory taxation. They think
:23:54. > :23:59.you are anti-business. I don't agree with them. One of the interesting
:24:00. > :24:03.things about Sir Stuart's comments on the predatory taxation and I
:24:04. > :24:07.think he was referring to the 5 p rate of tax is that he made some
:24:08. > :24:14.comments arguing against the reduction of the top rate of tax
:24:15. > :24:17.from 50p. He is saying something different now. Digby of course has
:24:18. > :24:23.his own opinions, he has never been a member of the Labour Party. Let me
:24:24. > :24:27.come onto this business of the top rate of tax, do you accept or don't
:24:28. > :24:32.you that there is a point when higher rates of income tax become
:24:33. > :24:38.counter-productive? Ultimately you want to have the lowest tax rates
:24:39. > :24:43.possible. Do you accept there is a certain level you actually get less
:24:44. > :24:49.money? I think ultimately there is a level beyond you could go which
:24:50. > :24:54.would be counter-productive, for example the 75% rate of tax I
:24:55. > :25:07.mentioned earlier, being advocated by Unite in France. Most French
:25:08. > :25:15.higher earners will pay less tax than under your plans. I beg your
:25:16. > :25:21.pardon, with the 50p? Under your proposals, people here will pay more
:25:22. > :25:27.tax than French higher earners. If you are asking if in terms of the
:25:28. > :25:33.level, you asked the question and I answered it, do I think if you reach
:25:34. > :25:38.a level beyond which the tax burden becomes counter-productive, can I
:25:39. > :25:42.give you a number what that would be, I cannot but let me explain -
:25:43. > :25:49.the reason we have sought to increase its two 50p is that we can
:25:50. > :25:53.get in revenue to reduce the deficit. In an ideal world you
:25:54. > :25:57.wouldn't need a 50p rate of tax which is why during our time in
:25:58. > :26:07.office we didn't have one, because we didn't have those issues. Sure,
:26:08. > :26:13.though you cannot tell me how much the 50p will raise. In the three
:26:14. > :26:22.years of operation we think it raised ?10 billion. You think. That
:26:23. > :26:26.was based on extrapolation from the British library. It is at least
:26:27. > :26:32.possible I would suggest, for the sake of argument, that when you
:26:33. > :26:38.promise to take over half people's income, which is what you will do if
:26:39. > :26:49.you get your way, the richest 1 currently account for 70 5% of all
:26:50. > :26:56.tax revenues. -- 75%. Is it not a danger that if you take more out of
:26:57. > :27:05.them, they will just go? I don't think so, we are talking about the
:27:06. > :27:08.top 1% here. If you look at the directors of sub 5 million turnover
:27:09. > :27:23.companies, the average managing director of that gets around
:27:24. > :27:32.?87,000. Let me narrow it down to something else. Let's take the .1%
:27:33. > :27:38.of top taxpayers, down to fewer than 30,000 people. They account for over
:27:39. > :27:43.14% of all of the income tax revenues. Only 29,000 people. If
:27:44. > :27:50.they go because you are going to take over half their income, you
:27:51. > :27:57.have lost a huge chunk of your tax base. They could easily go, at
:27:58. > :28:01.tipping point they could go. What we are advocating here is not
:28:02. > :28:06.controversial. Those with the broadest shoulders, it is not
:28:07. > :28:16.unreasonable to ask them to share the heavier burden. Can you name one
:28:17. > :28:24.other major economy that subscribes to this? Across Europe, for example
:28:25. > :28:31.in Sweden they have higher tax rates than us. Can you name one major
:28:32. > :28:37.economy? I couldn't pluck one out of the air, I can see where you are
:28:38. > :28:42.coming from, I don't agree with it. I think most people subscribe to the
:28:43. > :28:49.fact that those with wider shoulders should carry the heavy a burden We
:28:50. > :28:52.have run out of time but thank you for being here.
:28:53. > :28:57.Over the past week it seems that Nick Clegg has activated a new Lib
:28:58. > :29:00.Dem strategy - 'Get Gove'. After a very public spat over who should
:29:01. > :29:03.head up the schools inspection service Ofsted, Lib Dem sources have
:29:04. > :29:06.continued to needle away at the Education Secretary. And other
:29:07. > :29:30.senior Lib Dems have also taken aim at their coalition partners. Here's
:29:31. > :29:33.Giles Dilnot. It's unlikely the polite welcome of these school
:29:34. > :29:36.children to Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg and his party colleague
:29:37. > :29:38.schools minister David Laws would be so forthcoming right now from the
:29:39. > :29:41.man in charge of schools Conservative Michael Gove. Mr Laws
:29:42. > :29:44.is said to have been furious with The Education secretary over the
:29:45. > :29:47.decision to remove Sally Morgan as chair of Ofsted. But those who know
:29:48. > :29:50.the inner working of the Lib Dems say that's just understandable. When
:29:51. > :29:53.you have the department not being consulted, it would be possible for
:29:54. > :29:56.him to not publicly comment. The remarkable thing would be if he
:29:57. > :30:07.hadn't said anything at all. We should be careful to understand this
:30:08. > :30:17.is not always part of a preplanned decision. There is a growing sense
:30:18. > :30:21.that inside Number Ten this is a concerted Lib Dem strategy, we also
:30:22. > :30:25.understand there is no love lost between Nick Clegg and Michael Gove
:30:26. > :30:31.to say the least, and a growing frustration that if the Lib Dems
:30:32. > :30:34.think such so-called yellow and blue attacks can help them with the
:30:35. > :30:42.election, they can also damage the long-term prospects of the Coalition
:30:43. > :30:45.post 2015. One spat does not a divorce make but perhaps even more
:30:46. > :30:47.significant has been Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander s
:30:48. > :30:50.recent newspaper interview firmly spiking any room for George Osborne
:30:51. > :30:53.to manoeuvre on lowering the highest income tax rate to 40p. All this
:30:54. > :30:56.builds on the inclusion in Government at the reshuffle of
:30:57. > :30:59.people like Norman Baker at the Home Office and Simon Hughes at Justice
:31:00. > :31:01.people who are happier to publically express doubt on Conservative
:31:02. > :31:15.policy, unlike say Jeremy Browne who was removed and who has made plain
:31:16. > :31:19.his views on Coalition. It is difficult for us to demonstrate that
:31:20. > :31:27.we are more socialist than an Ed Miliband Labour led party. Even if
:31:28. > :31:33.we did wish to demonstrate it, doing it in coalition with the
:31:34. > :31:37.Conservatives would be harder still. Nonetheless a differentiation
:31:38. > :31:43.strategy was always likely as 2 15 approached, so is there evidence it
:31:44. > :31:47.works? Or of the work we publish shows the Lib Dems have a huge
:31:48. > :31:52.problem in terms of their distinctiveness, so attacking their
:31:53. > :31:55.coalition partners or the Labour Party is helpful in showing what
:31:56. > :32:01.they are against, but there are bigger problem is showing what they
:32:02. > :32:06.are for. And one Conservative MP with access to Number Ten as part of
:32:07. > :32:11.the PM's policy board says yellow on blue attacks are misplaced and
:32:12. > :32:16.irresponsible. At this stage when all the hard work is being done and
:32:17. > :32:24.the country is back on its feet the Lib Dems are choosing the time to
:32:25. > :32:28.step away from the coalition. That is your position, but do you suspect
:32:29. > :32:35.coming up to the next election we will see more of this? I think the
:32:36. > :32:41.Lib Dems are about as hard to pin down as a weasel in Vaseline. And
:32:42. > :32:44.with the public's view of politicians right now, and wants to
:32:45. > :32:51.be seen as slicker than a well oiled weasel? And we have Lib Dem peer
:32:52. > :33:01.Matthew Oakeshott and senior Conservative backbencher Bernard
:33:02. > :33:05.Jenkin. Matthew, the Lib Dems are now picking fights with the Tories
:33:06. > :33:10.on a range of issues, some of them trivial. Is this a Pirelli used to
:33:11. > :33:18.Lib Dem withdrawal from the coalition? I do not know, I am not
:33:19. > :33:22.privy to Nick Clegg's in strategy. Some of us have been independent for
:33:23. > :33:28.some time. I resigned over treatment of the banks. That is now being
:33:29. > :33:34.sorted out. But what is significant is we have seen a string of attacks,
:33:35. > :33:40.almost an enemy within strategy When you have Nick Clegg, David Laws
:33:41. > :33:47.and Danny Alexander, the three key people closest to the Conservatives,
:33:48. > :33:50.when you see all of them attacking, and this morning Nick Clegg has had
:33:51. > :33:55.a go at the Conservatives over drug policy. There is a string of
:33:56. > :34:02.policies where something is going on. It is difficult to do an enemy
:34:03. > :34:08.within strategy. I believe as many Lib Dems do that we should withdraw
:34:09. > :34:11.from the coalition six months to one year before the election so we can
:34:12. > :34:16.put our positive policies across rather than having this tricky
:34:17. > :34:24.strategy of trying to do it from within. Why does David Cameron need
:34:25. > :34:29.the Lib Dems? He probably does not. The country generally favoured the
:34:30. > :34:32.coalition to start with. Voters like to see politicians are working
:34:33. > :34:38.together and far more of that goes on in Westminster then we see. Most
:34:39. > :34:46.of my committee reports are unanimous reports from all parties.
:34:47. > :34:54.Why does he need them? I do not think he does. You would be happy to
:34:55. > :34:59.see the Lib Dems go? I would always be happy to see a single minority
:35:00. > :35:03.Government because it would be easier for legislation. The
:35:04. > :35:07.legislation you could not get through would not get through
:35:08. > :35:12.whether we were in coalition or not. The 40p tax rate, there
:35:13. > :35:16.probably is not a majority in the House of Commons at the moment,
:35:17. > :35:21.despite what Nick Clegg originally said. It does not make much
:35:22. > :35:25.difference. What makes a difference from the perspective of the
:35:26. > :35:30.committee I chair is historically we have had single party Government
:35:31. > :35:34.that have collective responsibility and clarity. The reason that is
:35:35. > :35:39.important is because nothing gets done if everybody is at sixes and
:35:40. > :35:44.sevens in the Government. Everything stops, there is paralysis as the row
:35:45. > :35:49.goes on. Civil servants do not know who they are working for. If it
:35:50. > :35:56.carries on getting fractures, there is a bigger argument to get out If
:35:57. > :36:01.it continues at this level of intensity of the enemy within
:36:02. > :36:06.strategy as you have described it, can the coalition survived another
:36:07. > :36:10.16 months of this? It is also a question should they. I never
:36:11. > :36:17.thought I would say this, I agree with Bernard. Interestingly earlier
:36:18. > :36:21.Chuka Umunna missed the point talking about business support.
:36:22. > :36:24.Business is worried about this anti-European rhetoric and that is a
:36:25. > :36:28.deep split between the Liberal Democrats and the UKIP wing of the
:36:29. > :36:34.Tory party. That is really damaging and that is something we need to
:36:35. > :36:39.make our own case separately on Do you get fed up when you hear
:36:40. > :36:43.constant Lib Dem attacks on you What makes me fed up is my own party
:36:44. > :36:50.cannot respond in kind because we are in coalition. I would love to
:36:51. > :36:57.have this much more open debate I would like to see my own party
:36:58. > :36:59.leader, for example as he did in the House of Commons, it was the Liberal
:37:00. > :37:04.Democrats who blocked the referendum on the house of lords and if we want
:37:05. > :37:08.to get this bill through it should be a Government bill. We know we can
:37:09. > :37:12.get it through the Commons, but we need to get the Liberals out of the
:37:13. > :37:16.Government so they stop blocking the Government putting forward a
:37:17. > :37:26.referendum bill. And put millions of jobs at risk? I am not going down
:37:27. > :37:30.the European road today. It strikes me that given that the attacks from
:37:31. > :37:35.the Lib Dems are now coming from the left attacking the Tories, is this a
:37:36. > :37:40.representative of the failure of Nick Clegg's strategy to rebuild a
:37:41. > :37:46.centrist Liberal party and he now accepts the only way he can save as
:37:47. > :37:52.many seats as he can do is to get the disillusioned left Lib Dem
:37:53. > :37:56.voters to come back to the fold The site is we have lost over half our
:37:57. > :38:01.vote at the last election and at the moment there is no sign in the polls
:38:02. > :38:07.of it coming back and we are getting very close to the next election. I
:38:08. > :38:13.welcome it if Nick Clegg is starting to address that problem, but talking
:38:14. > :38:17.about the centre is not the answer. Most Liberal Democrat voters at the
:38:18. > :38:22.last election are radical, progressive people who want to see a
:38:23. > :38:25.much fairer Britain and a much less divided society and we must make
:38:26. > :38:32.sure we maximise our vote from there. We know what both of you
:38:33. > :38:36.want, but what do you think will happen? Do you think this coalition
:38:37. > :38:42.will survive all the way to the election or will it break up
:38:43. > :38:48.beforehand? I think it will break up beforehand. Our long-term economic
:38:49. > :38:51.plan is working. The further changes in policies we want to implement to
:38:52. > :38:58.sustain that plan are being held back by the Liberal Democrats. When
:38:59. > :39:02.will they break up? It has lasted longer than I thought it would, but
:39:03. > :39:10.it must break up at least six months before the election. Do you think it
:39:11. > :39:14.will survive or not? The coalition has delivered a great deal in many
:39:15. > :39:19.ways, but it is running out of steam. It depends what happens in
:39:20. > :39:23.the May elections. If the Liberal Democrats do not do better than we
:39:24. > :39:32.have done in the last three, there will be very strong pressure from
:39:33. > :39:37.the inside. You both agree. Television history has been made.
:39:38. > :39:42.You are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up: I will be
:39:43. > :39:57.looking Hello once again from the Midlands,
:39:58. > :40:02.I'm Patrick Burns. We are in exalted company today from Government and
:40:03. > :40:06.opposition front bench is, both our guests enjoyed five figure
:40:07. > :40:10.majorities in constituencies where they don't count their votes, they
:40:11. > :40:15.weigh them. Jeremy Wright, Conservative MP for Kenilworth and
:40:16. > :40:21.Southam, he is the justice minister in the Government, Ms `` Minister
:40:22. > :40:28.for prisons. John Spellar Labour MP for Warley, a warm welcome to you
:40:29. > :40:30.both. And that's not all. John Spellar was also a transport
:40:31. > :40:36.minister under Tony Blair wind speed cameras were first introduced. Now
:40:37. > :40:40.they could be extended to our major motorways as well, but we have them
:40:41. > :40:45.already where there are variable speed limit and roadworks but they
:40:46. > :40:48.are set to be piloted on selected motorways including the M6,
:40:49. > :40:56.routinely enforcing the 70 mph limit. What's more, these so`called
:40:57. > :41:00.stealth cameras could be a very inconspicuous shade of grey. Who was
:41:01. > :41:06.it who fought long and hard to stop the original cameras being painted
:41:07. > :41:11.grey? Let's just say the eventual colour was known at the time as
:41:12. > :41:16."Spellar Yellar" ! Why does it matter most John? If people are
:41:17. > :41:23.driving lawfully, it does not matter what colour or how conspicuous they
:41:24. > :41:26.are, they just follow the law. There was a big debate at the time and you
:41:27. > :41:28.had some of the transport bureaucrats and some of the chief
:41:29. > :41:34.constables particularly from the smaller constabularies, they were
:41:35. > :41:37.hiding them behind bushes and painting them grey. Effectively what
:41:38. > :41:43.they were trying to do was catch people out. I wanted to make sure
:41:44. > :41:46.that it made people adjust their behaviour and to focus on areas
:41:47. > :41:50.where we knew there was a high risk of accidents and that proved itself
:41:51. > :41:55.so it got public acceptance. It did not look like we were just try to
:41:56. > :41:59.find ways... Are you applying the same logic now? Absolutely. We
:42:00. > :42:05.wanted position where people understand the need for the
:42:06. > :42:08.cameras. They recognise where there are dangerous stretches, they
:42:09. > :42:14.recognise the desire to cut accidents. What they get annoyed
:42:15. > :42:20.about is where they think they are trying to find them, like with the
:42:21. > :42:26.parking. Justice must be seen to be done, so it must be clearly seen. I
:42:27. > :42:28.agree with John and I don't think speed cameras should be there just
:42:29. > :42:32.to raise revenue, they should be there for safety purposes but the
:42:33. > :42:37.cameras that are on the M6 which will come into force shortly at
:42:38. > :42:41.there to support the management of motorways programme and that is a
:42:42. > :42:45.good idea, the idea that you open up additional lanes when you need them.
:42:46. > :42:47.I can understand that cameras are useful in making sure you understand
:42:48. > :42:52.what the motorway looks like before you make that decision to use
:42:53. > :42:58.another lame but I would not be in favour of this being a stealthy way
:42:59. > :43:01.of raising money for motorists. Still to come, helplines for
:43:02. > :43:06.domestic violence victims could be scaled down under the next round of
:43:07. > :43:08.council cuts. Why some essential local services are deemed more
:43:09. > :43:20.essential than others. This will be our main talking point later. It's
:43:21. > :43:24.40 years since mainland Britain's' at from the Troubles in Northern
:43:25. > :43:27.Ireland, 21 people died in the Birmingham pub bombings. But for
:43:28. > :43:31.decades later, the truth is still to emerge about who really planted the
:43:32. > :43:36.bombs at the Kenilworth and the play seven macro. Paddy Hill, one of the
:43:37. > :43:43.wrongly convicted people of the outrage is demanding the IRA must
:43:44. > :43:48.come clean. `` is asking for a full public in quiet and is being
:43:49. > :43:51.supported by Julie Hambleton whose sister was killed in the bombings
:43:52. > :43:55.and was one of the leaders of the Justice For The 21 campaign. I asked
:43:56. > :43:59.Julie Hambleton what she hoped a public enquiry could achieve so many
:44:00. > :44:07.years later. no amount of time that could pass
:44:08. > :44:11.could possibly be an excuse not to have a full public enquiry. And why
:44:12. > :44:15.it has taken so long to do so, it beggars belief. Tell me about the
:44:16. > :44:21.efforts that you have made to raise this with our senior political
:44:22. > :44:25.leaders in this country. You cannot get more senior than David Cameron
:44:26. > :44:32.and when we met Peter Robinson last year and Belfast `` in Belfast, a
:44:33. > :44:37.consummate diplomat and gentleman, he promised to hand deliver a
:44:38. > :44:40.dossier that he wanted us to put together to David Cameron which is
:44:41. > :44:46.what he did last June and we are still waiting for a response. I have
:44:47. > :44:49.written to Ed Miliband added was his office he responded, he did not even
:44:50. > :44:53.respond, I have written to the Shadow Home Secretary four times
:44:54. > :44:59.with recorded delivery, none of which have been responded to. I am
:45:00. > :45:01.still waiting. Some you are supporting this online petition
:45:02. > :45:06.launched by Paddy Hill, what are your hopes for it and what do you
:45:07. > :45:10.think will happen next? I hope everybody in the West Midlands, not
:45:11. > :45:15.just in Birmingham, and around the country will sign this petition and
:45:16. > :45:18.get behind us because we are not doing it just for us, we are not
:45:19. > :45:22.doing just for the other families, we are doing it for future
:45:23. > :45:27.generations. If we don't fight today to these perpetrators caught and
:45:28. > :45:31.sentenced, then who is to say it would not happen in the future? Who
:45:32. > :45:34.is to say that people will not come to Birmingham or any other city for
:45:35. > :45:41.that matter and create mass murder and for them to have their liberty?
:45:42. > :45:44.And nobody is looking for them? How can we claim to live in a democratic
:45:45. > :45:51.society where we allow that to happen? Because until that happens,
:45:52. > :45:57.there is no justice, is there? No, the only injustice is that there has
:45:58. > :46:02.been no justice. Julie Hambleton there, so is the
:46:03. > :46:05.injustice perpetrated against the Birmingham six being compounded
:46:06. > :46:11.against the 21 victims? Presumably you have influence in Government,
:46:12. > :46:17.you could get David Cameron to reply to Julie? I think the wider point
:46:18. > :46:21.she is making is a good one, they have not yet been people held to
:46:22. > :46:25.account for these terrible crimes. For a monstrous atrocity, and we
:46:26. > :46:30.gaze back at the Sunday, and Hillsborough, but this is hanging on
:46:31. > :46:36.result. `` gaze back at Bloody Sunday. This happened 40 years ago
:46:37. > :46:39.and we need to unearth new evidence but that will be challenging. If it
:46:40. > :46:43.is there to be found, it should be looked for. I think one of the other
:46:44. > :46:47.things that are striking about the Birmingham six case and I remember
:46:48. > :46:51.clearly seeing the Birmingham six, at the pavement when I was a
:46:52. > :46:55.teenager and talk about what happened to them, John and I will
:46:56. > :46:58.get regular letters from people asking for the restoration of the
:46:59. > :47:01.death penalty. Were the death penalty is to have been in existence
:47:02. > :47:04.at that time, I have no doubt it would have been used on these six
:47:05. > :47:07.men and given that they were wrongly convicted, we would not have been
:47:08. > :47:10.able to put right that mistake and that is also something that is
:47:11. > :47:15.reminding ourselves about the Birmingham six and what happened to
:47:16. > :47:20.them. As a former Northern Ireland Minister, the same question, surely
:47:21. > :47:27.you could use your influence to get Ed Miliband and Yvette Cooper to
:47:28. > :47:34.respond to Julie. The first point is actually, where should the enquiry
:47:35. > :47:40.start? Should they not get a reply? I will certainly look at that but
:47:41. > :47:43.West Midlands Police need to look at this. Where people have got new
:47:44. > :47:47.information and evidence and if Peter Robinson has got a dossier,
:47:48. > :47:50.that should be handed to the West Midlands Police and the chief
:47:51. > :47:55.constable and possibly should be taken up and I the member of
:47:56. > :47:58.Parliament up in Birmingham Perry Barr has raised this issue with Bob
:47:59. > :48:03.Jones, the new police Commissioner, to ensure that any new information
:48:04. > :48:09.is looked into with a view to try to track down the perpetrators of this
:48:10. > :48:13.awful crime which shocked the city and the country. Your party was in
:48:14. > :48:18.power at the time and Paddy Hill, one of the Birmingham six is also
:48:19. > :48:23.alleging that there was so much pressure from your Government on the
:48:24. > :48:28.police to secure convictions, no matter who or where, frankly that is
:48:29. > :48:37.how it ended up in this catastrophic miscarriage of justice. I am certain
:48:38. > :48:41.there was pressure to catch the perpetrators and unfortunately they
:48:42. > :48:43.caught the wrong people and I fully understand his sense of grievance.
:48:44. > :48:50.But he rightly says the IRA should come clean about what happened and
:48:51. > :48:54.if he has got any information or any other people have, that should go to
:48:55. > :48:58.West Midlands Police and urge them to reopen enquiries into this awful
:48:59. > :49:02.crime. Another big problem is that the whole case is covered by one of
:49:03. > :49:06.these public interest immunity certificates which is like a
:49:07. > :49:13.guarantee of silence for 75 years will stop when you have secrecy like
:49:14. > :49:16.that, it is bound to embolden those who have alleged conspiracy
:49:17. > :49:21.theories. Surely we need a bright light on the enquiry? There are huge
:49:22. > :49:24.challenges when dealing with security information but I agree
:49:25. > :49:27.that that does not prevent the West Midlands Police force looking at it
:49:28. > :49:31.again. If they believe they have new evidence. If it was not properly
:49:32. > :49:34.scrutinised in the first place, it does not prevent them doing that and
:49:35. > :49:41.that is what they should do if such evidence comes to light. Thank you.
:49:42. > :49:47.This week will see yet another round of council budget cuts, or savings,
:49:48. > :49:50.after some further belt tightening it headed by George Osborne's Autumn
:49:51. > :49:56.statement. Worcestershire County Council must decide how to take ?20
:49:57. > :49:59.million out of its budget next year, almost half, ?30 million, designated
:50:00. > :50:04.to come from adult social care which means cuts to non`statutory services
:50:05. > :50:08.for elderly, disabled or other vulnerable people. More on this now
:50:09. > :50:14.from our BBC Hereford and Worcester political reporter, the bone.
:50:15. > :50:17.A few years ago, Claire Baker found there was no way out, trapped in an
:50:18. > :50:21.abusive relationship with two small children to consider, she was living
:50:22. > :50:24.in fear of her partner. I would never spend one week without him
:50:25. > :50:29.doing something that was upsetting me or making me cry. And getting
:50:30. > :50:37.used to the abuse, eventually I stopped crying and it used to go
:50:38. > :50:42.over my head. I became emotionally numb. Things changed when she
:50:43. > :50:46.contacted West Mercia Women's Aid, which helps victims of domestic
:50:47. > :50:47.abuse. She left her abuser, regain self`confidence and even qualified
:50:48. > :51:00.as an electrician. It was really scary to begin with
:51:01. > :51:05.because it is a male`dominated trade but being here, people have been
:51:06. > :51:11.supportive and lovely and I got on with everybody.
:51:12. > :51:17.Hello, West Mercia Women's Aid, Joe speaking? Eight 24`hour emergency
:51:18. > :51:22.helpline is run along with other support services. It helps 6000
:51:23. > :51:25.people a year. Three quarters of the work is paid for by local councils
:51:26. > :51:28.to contract out the services but they are looking at reducing
:51:29. > :51:32.funding. Worcestershire county council is looking at cutting a half
:51:33. > :51:40.of its contribution. I believe that the high risk victim side of things,
:51:41. > :51:43.if we have funding cut, then women will die because we are not going to
:51:44. > :51:48.be there to provide the level of support that we have been able to
:51:49. > :51:50.provide in the past. But like many other authorities, Worcestershire
:51:51. > :51:56.County Council is under pressure to balance books while dealing with a
:51:57. > :52:00.huge dip in funding. They can do this by save around ?80 million over
:52:01. > :52:05.the next three years and to do that, it needs to cut around ?29 million
:52:06. > :52:09.this year and out of that, it needs to save around ?30 million from the
:52:10. > :52:13.adult social care budget which deals with things like homelessness,
:52:14. > :52:17.elderly and disabled and domestic abuse support services. Councillors
:52:18. > :52:22.say the scale of the task means difficult decisions have to be made.
:52:23. > :52:26.When we had specific grants and when money was plenty, it was very easy
:52:27. > :52:30.for the county council to put funding into a lot of projects which
:52:31. > :52:34.are nice to have which were good and well founded but in times of budget
:52:35. > :52:40.reductions, we must reassess and analyse where we focus taxpayers'
:52:41. > :52:45.money to ensure it is spent in focus areas and as wisely as possible.
:52:46. > :52:48.West Mercia Women's Aid up Claire to put her life together and stand on
:52:49. > :52:51.her own two feet. With local councils struggling to balance the
:52:52. > :52:56.books, these charities are increasingly asked to do the same.
:52:57. > :52:59.And the committees and local Government department reminders that
:53:00. > :53:03.local Government accounts for a quarter of all public spending so it
:53:04. > :53:09.has to do its bit to help pay down the deficit. That was Matthew Bone
:53:10. > :53:14.reporting. And we are joined by the chief executive of West Mercia
:53:15. > :53:18.Women's Aid, Jan Frances, supporting women and children affected by
:53:19. > :53:21.domestic violence right across Worcestershire, Herefordshire and
:53:22. > :53:28.Shropshire for the past 30 years. The cuts we are talking about sound
:53:29. > :53:34.quite substantial. Can you give us an itemised list of the areas we
:53:35. > :53:38.might be talking about? Yes, we saw a call being added to the helpline
:53:39. > :53:43.there, we run a 34 hour helpline and we may not be able to run that 24
:53:44. > :53:49.hours a day which is a major problem `` 24 hours a day because it does
:53:50. > :53:52.not happen just between 9`5, so we must cut down on hours leading
:53:53. > :53:55.people without a first point of contact and without a lifeline. We
:53:56. > :54:01.may have to cut down on numbers of places that we have for refuge and
:54:02. > :54:04.soap men who need to leave immediately with their children
:54:05. > :54:08.because they are in danger, we may not be able to accommodate them. We
:54:09. > :54:13.might have to cut down on our recovery programmes. Domestic abuse
:54:14. > :54:19.is not an event and recovering from it is a process. It will affect the
:54:20. > :54:25.whole service. And we have heard from the council are there, the
:54:26. > :54:29.council must make some pretty tough choices and the Government must bear
:54:30. > :54:32.down on the deficit so maybe you should look to a more scientific
:54:33. > :54:39.approach to fundraising and your own systems. We already do a great deal
:54:40. > :54:44.of fundraising but these are not trimmings, our services on the
:54:45. > :54:47.trimmings, they deal with high victims who may, possibly, suffer
:54:48. > :54:54.injury and death if we are not there to support them and to safety plan
:54:55. > :54:57.with them. Yes, we do fundraiser, with a large charitable trust and
:54:58. > :55:04.individual donors but it is not enough. I wonder whether this should
:55:05. > :55:09.cue more expansive thinking where we care for people in society, and
:55:10. > :55:14.active citizenship, perhaps a big society and so, dare I say it, is
:55:15. > :55:19.that of money being handed out to charities and places like yourself,
:55:20. > :55:24.get the community around helping to involve themselves and rethink the
:55:25. > :55:29.idea. I think there is room for both. Money is not handed out. We
:55:30. > :55:34.deliver services and contract will stop we are very tight at monitoring
:55:35. > :55:38.them, these are not grants, this money comes from the local
:55:39. > :55:42.authorities to deliver services. If we did not deliver them, they would
:55:43. > :55:45.have to. They would have to do it. You can see how this looks, Jeremy.
:55:46. > :55:51.It looks like really important services which gave Claire the
:55:52. > :55:56.chance to rebuild her life and put something back into the economy as
:55:57. > :55:59.well as society, so it is an investment and your Government,
:56:00. > :56:08.local authorities is being driven doing really serious damage to
:56:09. > :56:13.important services. I do not doubt that the charity's work is very
:56:14. > :56:16.important but in context, 25% of Government spending is spent by
:56:17. > :56:19.local Government, we cannot do the things we need to do in order to
:56:20. > :56:23.reduce public expenditure without local Government taking a share of
:56:24. > :56:27.that. And that is feeding through into the tough choices we are
:56:28. > :56:30.talking about here. But those choices are unavoidable, we cannot
:56:31. > :56:33.go on spending more money than we earn and when we came to power as a
:56:34. > :56:39.Government in 2010, we found that very substantial budget deficits and
:56:40. > :56:42.a note from the former Chief Secretary to the Treasury saying
:56:43. > :56:47.there is no more money. And that is why we must make these decisions.
:56:48. > :56:51.There are more economy still to come which could be on your watch if you
:56:52. > :56:56.come into Government, so you cannot is off the pressure either, you must
:56:57. > :57:00.make cuts as well. In answer to Jeremy, we had a world financial
:57:01. > :57:05.crash and that is what caused the deficit. And if it keeps being
:57:06. > :57:10.reiterated, I will keep answering that point but the reality that is
:57:11. > :57:12.facing so many vital services are particularly when other financial
:57:13. > :57:23.pressures are causing pressures domestic `` domestically and I am
:57:24. > :57:29.visiting local food banks and they are seeing similar signs, the rather
:57:30. > :57:35.sneering reference by that counsellor to" nice to have
:57:36. > :57:38.services" as if they were luxuries. Some statutory and some are
:57:39. > :57:41.non`statutory, it is a harsh thing to say but that is the reality. I
:57:42. > :57:47.think we saw how important they were. For many people, they are a
:57:48. > :57:55.lifeline and it is this sort of belligerent attitude we see from
:57:56. > :57:58.Eric Pickles. New and imaginative ways of funding are interesting
:57:59. > :58:01.things to talk about and we are trying to encourage things like
:58:02. > :58:06.social capital, people making an investment in projects that may not
:58:07. > :58:09.be all about delivering a financial return but also about delivering a
:58:10. > :58:12.social return, seeing an improvement in the way things are done. Lots
:58:13. > :58:19.more things like that are happening and we want to see more of it and
:58:20. > :58:27.encourage it in all sorts of deals. The macro fields. John picked up on
:58:28. > :58:31.the "nice to have" line. We are working with people who are victims
:58:32. > :58:34.of crime. It is a crime. We are not talking about... Obviously Claire
:58:35. > :58:40.did very well and we saw some pictures of her in recovery. When
:58:41. > :58:46.she first came to us, the state she was in was different and she was
:58:47. > :58:51.recovering from crimes committed against her. So we must take it
:58:52. > :58:58.seriously, it is not" nice to have" . Thank you very much. Let's catch
:58:59. > :59:05.up with more of the week's political developments here in the Midlands in
:59:06. > :59:11.sexy seconds brought to us today by BBC's Nick Allen. `` Nick Owen. It's
:59:12. > :59:14.the end of the road for tyre production at Dunlop in Birmingham.
:59:15. > :59:18.The firm is closing its plant with the loss of nearly 250 jobs.
:59:19. > :59:21.West Midlands Police has ended its recruitment freeze after five years.
:59:22. > :59:23.It's looking to take on 450 new officers.
:59:24. > :59:26.PC Keith Wallis has been jailed for a year after admitting misconduct in
:59:27. > :59:29.a public office. He wrongly claimed seeing a row involving police and
:59:30. > :59:34.the Sutton Coldfield MP Andrew Mitchell in Downing Street.
:59:35. > :59:38.Cannock Chase MP Aidan Burley is to step down at the general election.
:59:39. > :59:41.An internal Tory Party report said his role organising a Nazi`themed
:59:42. > :59:48.stag party was "stupid and offensive."
:59:49. > :59:51.And when is a riot not a riot? When it's "concerted indiscipline." The
:59:52. > :59:57.Prisons Minister was put on the spot over last month's disturbance at
:59:58. > :00:04.Oakwood Prison near Wolverhampton. I would urge the Government to
:00:05. > :00:12.abandon this PR spin and for once, tell the simple truth.
:00:13. > :00:18.And the PR spin according to Paul Flynn is that expression, "concerted
:00:19. > :00:24.indiscipline", when prison officers inside building macro told the BBC
:00:25. > :00:31.it was a full`scale riot. `` inside Oakwood prison. "concerted
:00:32. > :00:35.indiscipline" has been used by governments for a long time, it is
:00:36. > :00:39.not just PR spin. What really happened is this, I was at the
:00:40. > :00:44.present two weeks ago and I spoke to those involved and the staff
:00:45. > :00:48.involved and looked at the CCTV coverage. What I think happened was
:00:49. > :00:52.not fairly described as a full`scale riot, it was certainly a serious
:00:53. > :00:58.incident but there were 20 prisoners out of 1600 currently at Oakwood and
:00:59. > :01:04.in one wing, the wing was recovered professionally as one was let macro
:01:05. > :01:09.would expect. Changes are being made and it is important not to blow what
:01:10. > :01:14.happened out of proportion. Is it teething troubles in a new prison? I
:01:15. > :01:18.don't think so and I think there are a number of concerns about a number
:01:19. > :01:23.of the privatised prisons but the underlying basis is that our full to
:01:24. > :01:27.bursting. Prisons are over 99% full but the Government are still closing
:01:28. > :01:33.some prisons and they won't have the new prison opened and they will not
:01:34. > :01:38.listen. Plus they are not getting on with deporting foreign prisoners,
:01:39. > :01:45.they are way behind on that. If Oakwood was made a private prison,
:01:46. > :01:47.it was by the Labour Government and we have substantially full prisons
:01:48. > :01:51.because we want to make efficient use of the space and not expert the
:01:52. > :01:55.taxpayer to pay for spaces we don't need. The last Labour Government
:01:56. > :01:58.went past full prisons and had to release people because the prisons
:01:59. > :02:06.were so full, they could not cope and we don't intend to repeat that.
:02:07. > :02:11.Briefly, with the decision for Aidan Burley to stand down... That is a
:02:12. > :02:16.personal decision for him to make and he must make his own decisions.
:02:17. > :02:19.The also lied to the enquiry and disgracefully referred to the
:02:20. > :02:30.opening of the Olympics as multicultural rubbish. I
:02:31. > :02:39.the hot seat next week will be on BBC Radio Stoke will feature
:02:40. > :02:40.Mohammed Pervez and next week's Sunday politics, I will be joined
:02:41. > :02:49.here in the studio by Alison Londoners who otherwise may not have
:02:50. > :02:57.a voice. Both of you, thank you so much. Andrew, it is back to you Can
:02:58. > :03:02.David Cameron get a grip on the floods? Can UKIP push the
:03:03. > :03:06.Conservatives into third place in the Wythenshawe by-election on
:03:07. > :03:10.Thursday? Is the speaker in the House of Commons in danger of
:03:11. > :03:19.overheating? All questions over the weekend. Let's look at the politics
:03:20. > :03:23.of the flooding. Let me show you a clip from Eric Pickles, the
:03:24. > :03:32.Communities Secretary, earlier on the BBC this morning. We perhaps
:03:33. > :03:37.relied too much on the Environment Agency's advice. I apologise. I
:03:38. > :03:43.apologise unreservedly and I am really sorry we took the advice of
:03:44. > :03:47.what we thought we were doing was the best. The Environment Agency is
:03:48. > :03:52.being hung out to dry by the Government and the Government has
:03:53. > :03:57.taken over the running of the environmental mess in the Somerset
:03:58. > :04:00.Levels. It is turning into a serious crisis by the Government and even
:04:01. > :04:06.more so for the people who are dealing with the flooding. There is
:04:07. > :04:11.no doubt that what has been revealed is it is not just about what the
:04:12. > :04:17.Government did or did not do six months ago. What is being exposed is
:04:18. > :04:20.an entire culture within the Environment Agency, fuelled often by
:04:21. > :04:25.European directives about dredging and all manner of other things, a
:04:26. > :04:30.culture grew up in which plants were put ahead of people if you like All
:04:31. > :04:33.of that is collapsing in very difficult circumstances by the
:04:34. > :04:39.Government and it is difficult for them to manage. Chris Smith would
:04:40. > :04:43.save the Environment Agency is acting under a law set by this
:04:44. > :04:48.Government and previous governments and the first priority is the
:04:49. > :04:51.protection of life, second property and third agricultural land and he
:04:52. > :04:57.is saying we are working within that framework. It is an edifying
:04:58. > :05:01.spectacle, they are setting up Lord Smith to be the fall guy. His term
:05:02. > :05:06.of office comes at the end of the summer and they will find something
:05:07. > :05:10.new. But the point Lord Smith is making is that dredging is important
:05:11. > :05:15.and it was a mistake not to dredge, but it is a bigger picture than
:05:16. > :05:19.that. I am no expert, but you need a whole skill solution that is looking
:05:20. > :05:26.not just bad dredging, but at the whole catchment area looking at the
:05:27. > :05:31.production of maize. It is harvested in autumn and then the water runs
:05:32. > :05:35.off the topsoil. You see the pictures of the flooding, it is all
:05:36. > :05:40.topsoil flooding through those towns. What you have got to have in
:05:41. > :05:43.the uplands is some land that can absorb that water and there are
:05:44. > :05:48.really big questions about the way we carry out farming. Chris Smith
:05:49. > :05:54.was meant to appear on the Andrew Marr show this morning, but pulled
:05:55. > :05:58.back at the last minute. There must be doubts as to whether he can
:05:59. > :06:04.survive to the summer. Where is the chief executive of the Environment
:06:05. > :06:08.Agency? I agree with Nick that Chris Smith has been setup in this
:06:09. > :06:14.situation. David Cameron went to the Somerset Levels on Friday for about
:06:15. > :06:20.half an hour, in and out, with no angry people shouting at him. You to
:06:21. > :06:27.a farm. It is agreed he has had good crisis. But we are seen as being a
:06:28. > :06:32.London media class who does not understand the countryside. You can
:06:33. > :06:35.imagine David Cameron in a pair of wellies. If this was happening in
:06:36. > :06:42.Guildford, it would not have dragged on for so long. Looe it is
:06:43. > :06:48.interesting how they are saying the Environment Agency has put words in
:06:49. > :06:50.front of everything else. The great-great-grandson of Queen
:06:51. > :06:56.Victoria thinks people should be sacked at the whim. He is talking
:06:57. > :07:00.about how the Environment Agency spent ?31 million on a bird
:07:01. > :07:05.sanctuary. It turns out the bird sanctuary was an attempt to put up a
:07:06. > :07:10.flood defence system for a village which has worked. That village has
:07:11. > :07:15.been saved. They compensated some farmers for the farmland they were
:07:16. > :07:18.not going to be able to farm and put a flood defence system further back
:07:19. > :07:27.to protect this village and then they built a bird sanctuary. It was
:07:28. > :07:30.not ?31 million to create a bird sanctuary, it was to save a village
:07:31. > :07:36.and it worked. But in 2008 the Environment Agency was talking about
:07:37. > :07:42.dynamiting every pumping agency There was a metropolitan mindset on
:07:43. > :07:48.the part of that agency. If it does what Owen Paterson, who is now off
:07:49. > :07:54.in an eye operation, suggested a plan to fix this, they will find a
:07:55. > :07:57.lot of what they want or need to do will be in contravention of European
:07:58. > :08:06.directives. The Wythenshawe by-election. There is no question
:08:07. > :08:12.Labour is going to win, probably incredibly convincingly, one poll
:08:13. > :08:17.showing 60% plus of the vote. It would be surprising if Labour was in
:08:18. > :08:24.any threat up there. The issue is, does UKIP beat the Tories and if so,
:08:25. > :08:29.by how much? The latest poll was showing it in second place as nip
:08:30. > :08:34.and tuck, but the feeling I have is UKIP will do better. And they have
:08:35. > :08:37.got a great local candidate. The Tories have not parachuted somebody
:08:38. > :08:42.in and they have got a local man in and that will help them. We have all
:08:43. > :08:49.been waiting to see if the Tories lose their head, but they might go
:08:50. > :08:55.chicken earlier than that. Will UKIP come second? It looks like that A
:08:56. > :09:00.poll this week showed that Labour is way ahead and UKIP possibly second.
:09:01. > :09:04.But it is an important by-election for UKIP. If they do well in the
:09:05. > :09:09.European elections, they should still be on a roll. They did really
:09:10. > :09:15.well in by-elections last year. If they do not do well, is it because
:09:16. > :09:21.they are not on payroll? Or in Manchester they have a fantastic
:09:22. > :09:26.leader of the council? Will UKIP come a good second? I think they
:09:27. > :09:31.will and if they do not, it might suggest Nigel Farage is losing its
:09:32. > :09:36.slightly. One thing to look out for is how little Labour are attacking
:09:37. > :09:43.UKIP. Their election strategy relies a lot on UKIP taking Tory votes But
:09:44. > :09:47.it could also take Labour votes Particularly in the north and we
:09:48. > :09:53.shall see. The results will be out on Thursday night. The Speaker of
:09:54. > :09:58.the House of Commons, John Bird , his interventions have become more
:09:59. > :10:08.frequent and something was strange. Have a look. I am grateful to the
:10:09. > :10:11.honourable gentleman. Order, the Government Chief Whip has absolutely
:10:12. > :10:16.no business whatsoever shouting from a sedentary position. Order, the
:10:17. > :10:26.honourable gentleman will remain in the chamber. If we could tackle this
:10:27. > :10:31.problem. I say to the honourable member for Bridgwater, be quiet if
:10:32. > :10:44.you cannot be quiet, get out, it is rude, stupid and pompous and it
:10:45. > :10:54.needs to stop. Michael Gove. Order. You really... Order. You are a very
:10:55. > :10:58.over excitable individual. You need to write out 1000 times, I will
:10:59. > :11:05.behave myself at Prime Minister 's questions. He was talking to the
:11:06. > :11:11.Education Secretary and it is not 1000 lines, it is 100 lines, at
:11:12. > :11:17.least it was in my day. Is he beginning to make a fool of himself?
:11:18. > :11:21.There was only one over excitable person there and that was the
:11:22. > :11:24.speaker and he is losing the confidence of the Conservative MPs,
:11:25. > :11:30.but he never had that in the first place. But he is an incredibly
:11:31. > :11:34.reforming speaker. He has this strange idea that Parliament should
:11:35. > :11:39.hold the Government to account. It will never catch on. It means very
:11:40. > :11:46.frequently there are urgent questions. The other day he called a
:11:47. > :11:50.backbench amendment on the deportation of foreign criminals. He
:11:51. > :11:56.could have found a way not to call that. He is a real reformer and the
:11:57. > :12:00.executive do not like that. That is true and he has allowed Parliament
:12:01. > :12:06.to flourish which has given us room to breathe at a time of a coalition
:12:07. > :12:13.Government when Parliament has more power. That is all that enough to
:12:14. > :12:20.overcome these increasingly mannered and some of them may be preplanned
:12:21. > :12:24.interventions? The last one was last week, and last week the speaker had
:12:25. > :12:32.a rather stressful week with the tabloids. Something is clearly up. I
:12:33. > :12:38.think it is a real shame. I think many of us when he was elected did
:12:39. > :12:42.not think he would make a great speaker and there are people like
:12:43. > :12:48.Douglas Carswell and Tory rebels who have said he is a fantastic speaker.
:12:49. > :12:51.He has given the Commons room to breathe and he has called on
:12:52. > :12:58.ministers to be held to account when they do not want to be. What do you
:12:59. > :13:02.think? He is seen as anti-government and he is pro-backbencher and that
:13:03. > :13:09.is what people do not like. People like Douglas Carswell are actually
:13:10. > :13:14.very strongly in support of him We carry the interventions every week
:13:15. > :13:19.on Prime Minister 's questions and we see them every week and they are
:13:20. > :13:22.getting a bit more eccentric. If I was having to keep that under
:13:23. > :13:30.control, I would be driven slowly mad. But his job is easier than
:13:31. > :13:37.mine. But if you look at his deputy, Eleanor Laing, she is very
:13:38. > :13:44.robust, but she is calm. Chap who does the budget is excellent. We are
:13:45. > :13:52.on throughout the week at midday on BBC Two. We will be back next Sunday
:13:53. > :13:59.at 11. If it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.