:00:37. > :00:41.Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:42. > :00:43.Fears that Ukraine could face invasion escalate this morning as
:00:44. > :00:48.Russian forces take control of Crimea. President Obama and his
:00:49. > :00:53.European allies tell President Putin to back off. It doesn't sound like
:00:54. > :00:55.he's listening. Shadow Education Secretary Tristram
:00:56. > :01:00.Hunt has started spelling out Labour's plans for schools. So
:01:01. > :01:05.what's the verdict - full marks, or must try harder? He joins us for the
:01:06. > :01:08.Sunday Interview. And all the big political parties
:01:09. > :01:17.are desperate to broaden their appeal. We'll look at some unusual
:01:18. > :01:20.And in the Midlands, training for the trade. The towns and cities
:01:21. > :01:27.lining up to come home for the and people deal with benefit
:01:28. > :01:31.changes. And tightening household finances.
:01:32. > :01:35.And with me, as always, three journalists who'd make a clean sweep
:01:36. > :01:40.if they were handing out Oscars for political punditry in LA tonight.
:01:41. > :01:45.But just like poor old Leonardo DiCaprio they've never won so much
:01:46. > :01:48.as a Blue Peter badge! Yes, it's Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan
:01:49. > :01:50.Ganesh. Instead of acceptance speeches they'll be tweeting faster
:01:51. > :01:57.than the tears roll down Gwyneth Paltrow's face. Yes, that's as
:01:58. > :02:01.luvvie as we get on this show. Events have been moving quickly in
:02:02. > :02:04.Ukraine this weekend. The interim government in Kiev has put the
:02:05. > :02:06.Ukrainian military on full combat alert after Russia's parliament
:02:07. > :02:11.rubber-stamped the deployment of Russian troops anywhere in Ukraine.
:02:12. > :02:13.Russian troops seem already to be in control of the mainly
:02:14. > :02:17.Russian-speaking Crimea region, where Russia has a massive naval
:02:18. > :02:20.base. President Obama told President Putin that Russia has flouted
:02:21. > :02:28.international law by sending in Russian troops but the Kremlin is
:02:29. > :02:30.taking no notice. This is now turning into the worst stand-off
:02:31. > :02:32.between Russia and the West since the conflict between Georgia and
:02:33. > :02:38.Russia in 2008, though nobody expects any kind of military
:02:39. > :02:43.response from the West. Foreign Secretary William Hague is on his
:02:44. > :02:45.way to Kiev this morning to show his support for the new government,
:02:46. > :02:48.though how long it will survive is another matter. We can speak to our
:02:49. > :02:57.correspondent David Stern, he's in Kiev.
:02:58. > :03:02.As things look from Kiev, can we take it they've lost Crimea, it is
:03:03. > :03:10.now in all essence under Russian control? Yes, well for the moment,
:03:11. > :03:15.Crimea is under Russian control Russian troops in unmarked uniforms
:03:16. > :03:23.have moved throughout the peninsula taking up various positions, also at
:03:24. > :03:29.the Ismis which links Ukraine into Crimea. They've surrounded Ukrainon
:03:30. > :03:35.troops there. Three units have been captured according to a top
:03:36. > :03:39.officials. We can say at the moment Russia controls the peninsula. It
:03:40. > :03:44.should also be said, also they have the support of the ethnic Russian
:03:45. > :03:48.population. The ethnic Russians make up the majority of the population.
:03:49. > :03:55.They are also not entirely in control because there are other
:03:56. > :04:00.groups, namely the Tatar as and the ethnic Ukrainian speakers who are at
:04:01. > :04:06.least at the moment tacitly resisting. We'll see what they'll
:04:07. > :04:12.start to do in the coming days. David, I'm putting up some pictures
:04:13. > :04:17.showing Russian troops digging in on the border between Crimea and
:04:18. > :04:22.Ukraine. I get the sense that is just for show. There is, I would
:04:23. > :04:29.assume, no possibility that the Ukrainians could attempt to retake
:04:30. > :04:34.Crimea by military force? It seems that the Ukrainians are weighing
:04:35. > :04:39.their options right now. Their options are very limited. Any
:04:40. > :04:43.head-to-head conflict with Russia would probably work against the
:04:44. > :04:48.Ukrainians. They seem to be taking more of a long-term gain. They are
:04:49. > :04:53.waiting for the figs's first move. They are trying not to create any
:04:54. > :04:58.excuse that the Russians can stage an even larger incursion into Crimea
:04:59. > :05:04.or elsewhere, for that matter. They also seem to be trying to get
:05:05. > :05:06.international support. It should be said, this is a new Government. It
:05:07. > :05:09.has only been installed this week. They are trying to gain their
:05:10. > :05:16.footing. This is a major crisis They have to count on the loyalty of
:05:17. > :05:19.the army they might have some resistance from solders from the
:05:20. > :05:23.eastern part of the country who are Russian speaking. They probably
:05:24. > :05:28.could count on Ukrainian speakers and people from the centre and west
:05:29. > :05:32.of the country as well as regular Ukrainians. A lot of people are
:05:33. > :05:39.ready to fight to defend Ukrainian Terre Tory. Where does the Kremlin
:05:40. > :05:45.go next? They have Crimea to all intents and purposes. There's a weak
:05:46. > :05:48.Government in Kiev. Do they move to the eastern side of Ukraine which is
:05:49. > :05:54.largely Russian speaking and there's already been some unrest there?
:05:55. > :05:58.That's the big question, that's what everybody's really asking now. Where
:05:59. > :06:02.does this go from here? We've had some unrest in the eastern part of
:06:03. > :06:07.the country. There have been demonstrations and clashes. More
:06:08. > :06:14.ominously, there have been noises from the Kremlin they might actually
:06:15. > :06:18.move into eastern Ukraine. Putin in his conversation with Barack Obama
:06:19. > :06:22.said they might protect their interests there. It should be said,
:06:23. > :06:29.if they do expand, in fact, they've also said they are dead against the
:06:30. > :06:36.new Government seeing it as illegitimate and fascist. It does
:06:37. > :06:39.contain risks. They will have to deal with international reactions.
:06:40. > :06:44.America said there will be a deep reaction to this and it will affect
:06:45. > :06:48.Russia's relations with Ukraine and the international community. They
:06:49. > :06:53.have to deal with the reaction in Ukraine. This may unite Ukrainians
:06:54. > :07:01.behind this new interim Government. Once Russia moves in, they will be
:07:02. > :07:08.seen as an invading force. It plays on historical feelings of Russia
:07:09. > :07:14.being an imperial force. Joining me is MP Mark Field who sits
:07:15. > :07:16.on the security Security and Intelligence Committee in the House
:07:17. > :07:22.of Commons. What should the western response be to these events? I can
:07:23. > :07:31.understand why William Hague is going to Kiev tomorrow to stand side
:07:32. > :07:36.by side whizz whoever's in charge. They need to CEOP sit numbers and
:07:37. > :07:44.also President Putin. The truth is we are all co significant fatries to
:07:45. > :07:52.the Budapest Memorandum of almost 20 years ago which was designed to
:07:53. > :07:56.maintain the integrity of the Ukraine and Crimea. There needs to
:07:57. > :08:01.be a discussion along those lines. The difficulty is President Putin
:08:02. > :08:08.has watched events in recent months, in relation to Syria, it is palpable
:08:09. > :08:13.President Obama's focus of attention ask the other side of the Pacific
:08:14. > :08:17.rather than the Atlantic. The vote in the House of Commons, I was very
:08:18. > :08:22.much against the idea of military action or providing weapons to the
:08:23. > :08:28.free Syrian army. My worry is, events proved this, the majority of
:08:29. > :08:33.the other options toed as sad are rather worse. It is clear now we are
:08:34. > :08:38.in a constitutional mess in this country. We cannot even contemplate
:08:39. > :08:41.military action without a parliamentary vote that moves
:08:42. > :08:46.against quick reaction that is required from the executive or, I
:08:47. > :08:54.suspect, there will be very little appetite for any military action
:08:55. > :08:59.from the West over in Ukraine. We are corn tours under the agreement
:09:00. > :09:02.of less than 20 years ago. We may be but we've guaranteed an agreement
:09:03. > :09:07.which it is clear we haven't the power to enforce. You wrote this
:09:08. > :09:13.morning, Britain is a diminished voice. Clams Iley navigating the
:09:14. > :09:18.Syrian conflict we relick wished decisions to the whims of
:09:19. > :09:25.parliamentary approval. That may or may not be but the Kremlin's not
:09:26. > :09:30.watching how we voted on the Syrian issue? In relation to Syria, it was
:09:31. > :09:36.where is the western resolve here. The truth ask Putin's position is
:09:37. > :09:41.considerably less strong. In diplomatic terms. He had a victory
:09:42. > :09:46.in Syria in relation to chemical weapons and in relation to the
:09:47. > :09:54.West's relationship with Iran. Putin is a vital inter locking figure In
:09:55. > :09:58.demographic and economic terms, Russia's in very deep trouble. The
:09:59. > :10:04.oil price started to fall to any degree, oil and gas price, given the
:10:05. > :10:09.importance of mineral wealth and exports for the Russian economy
:10:10. > :10:16.Putin would be in a lot of trouble. It requires an engagement from the
:10:17. > :10:19.EU and the EU are intending to look at their internal economic problems
:10:20. > :10:24.and will be smarting from the failure within a matter of hours of
:10:25. > :10:29.the deal they tried to broker only nine days' ago.
:10:30. > :10:32.You say if Mr Putin decides to increase the stakes and moves into
:10:33. > :10:38.the east, takes over the whole place, our Government, you say, will
:10:39. > :10:42.find itself with another colossal international headache. Some people
:10:43. > :10:47.watching this will be thinking, what's it got to do with us? It s a
:10:48. > :10:52.long way away from Britain. We haven't a dog in this fight? We have
:10:53. > :10:58.in this regard for the longer term here. I think if there were to be
:10:59. > :11:02.some military action in Ukraine the sense of Russia taking over, it
:11:03. > :11:07.could have a major impact on the global economy in very quick order.
:11:08. > :11:11.You should not deny that. There will be move to have sanctions against
:11:12. > :11:18.Russia. The escalation of that will be difficult. The other fact is
:11:19. > :11:25.looking at our internal affairs and reform, partners, the Baltic states,
:11:26. > :11:29.Finland, Poland, the Czech Republic, they will be looking at a resurgent
:11:30. > :11:35.Russia now and think they'll need to hold as tightly as possible to the
:11:36. > :11:42.EU institutions and the power of Germany at the centre of that. This
:11:43. > :11:47.whole appetite for the reforms politically and economically will be
:11:48. > :11:53.closed very much within a matter of a short period of time. It has
:11:54. > :12:02.longer term implications. Mark Field, thank you.
:12:03. > :12:06.We're joined now by BBC News night's Diplomatic Editor Mark Urban. Is
:12:07. > :12:13.there any prospect of a western military response? Clearly at the
:12:14. > :12:19.moment, it is nil. The boat has sailed with the Crimean. It has been
:12:20. > :12:25.per performed by Russian forces It is now a matter of coordinating a
:12:26. > :12:31.plate cal line. European foreign ministers tomorrow. To say what will
:12:32. > :12:35.our future limits be? Where could we possibly draw red lines? To try to
:12:36. > :12:41.think a couple of steps down this, what happens if Russia interrupts
:12:42. > :12:44.energy supplies to EU member states ornate owe countries? These are the
:12:45. > :12:49.important steps they have to think about. It is quite clear we are in a
:12:50. > :12:54.different world here now. Also, Ukraine is facing a urgent foreign
:12:55. > :12:59.exchange crisis. Within literally a few weeks they could run out of
:13:00. > :13:04.money. All of these are rushing towards decision makers very fast.
:13:05. > :13:09.There is an interim and I suggestion unstable Government in Kiev. Crimea
:13:10. > :13:12.semi-to be under Russian control. There are clashes between the
:13:13. > :13:17.reformers and Russian nationals in the east of the country. What does
:13:18. > :13:22.Mr Putin do next? He has lots of options, of course. He has this
:13:23. > :13:29.carte blanch carte blanch from his Parliament to go in to the rest of
:13:30. > :13:34.Ukraine if he wants to. His military deployment suggests the one bite at
:13:35. > :13:37.a time, just Crimea to start with. See what response comes from the
:13:38. > :13:42.Ukrainian Government. Of course so far, there hasn't been a coherent
:13:43. > :13:46.response. The really worrying thing about recent months, not just recent
:13:47. > :13:53.days, are the indications that the future of Ukraine as a unitary state
:13:54. > :14:00.is now in doubt. Look at it from the other side of the equation. The
:14:01. > :14:04.President when faced with demonstrations, many extremists he
:14:05. > :14:09.was unable to deal with that. Now we have the other side, if you like,
:14:10. > :14:14.the Russian speakers, the other side of the fight, Russian nationalists
:14:15. > :14:22.showing they can get away with unilateral action more or less with
:14:23. > :14:26.impunity. The Ukrainian chiefs have been sacked. I think there are
:14:27. > :14:34.considerable questions now as to whether Ukraine is falling apart
:14:35. > :14:36.and, if that happens, we're into a Yugoslav-type situation which will
:14:37. > :14:44.continue posing very serious questions for the EU and NATO for
:14:45. > :14:52.months or years to come. So, Janan, Ukraine is over? Where the west to
:14:53. > :14:58.concede to the Russian in Crimea, it would perversely be a net loss for
:14:59. > :15:03.Russia. You'd assume the rest of Ukraine would become an un
:15:04. > :15:13.unambiguously a member of the the EU, maybe NATO. On top of that a
:15:14. > :15:16.Russian dream of Eurasion dream they will look at Putin's behaviour
:15:17. > :15:21.and is a, no, thanks, we'll head towards the EU. It is a short-term
:15:22. > :15:35.victory for Putin which backfires on his broader goals in Well, many
:15:36. > :15:41.people said if he grabs Crimea, he loses Ukraine, which is your point.
:15:42. > :15:46.We have seen violent demonstrations in the big eastern cities in Ukraine
:15:47. > :15:51.yesterday. People taking control of certain buildings. The risk is there
:15:52. > :15:55.of spreading beyond Crimea. I think the lack of any unified or visible
:15:56. > :15:59.response from Ukrainian armed forces... They allowed Russian
:16:00. > :16:03.troops to walk into the bases in Crimea. They have supposedly gone on
:16:04. > :16:07.red alert but they have done absolutely nothing. We don't see
:16:08. > :16:10.them deploying from barracks. There are serious questions about whether
:16:11. > :16:19.they would just fall apart. Putin is not going to let them split away. I
:16:20. > :16:23.would have thought he would like the entire Ukraine to come into the
:16:24. > :16:28.Russian ambit. Barack Obama is saying this will not stand. He has a
:16:29. > :16:33.90 minute conversation with Vladimir Putin and what is his response? I am
:16:34. > :16:40.suspending my cooperation in the run-up to the Sochi Summit. What is
:16:41. > :16:44.the EU doing? Nothing. There is nothing they can do and Putin knows
:16:45. > :16:49.there are a series of lines that he is able to cross and get away with
:16:50. > :16:55.it. Why should Berlin, London, Washington be surprised by the
:16:56. > :17:00.strength of Vladimir Putin's reaction? It was never going to let
:17:01. > :17:06.Ukraine just fall into the arms of the EU. That is the interesting
:17:07. > :17:09.point. And who does he listen to? Paddy Ashdown was saying sent Angela
:17:10. > :17:13.Merkel because she is the only person who can talk to him and I
:17:14. > :17:17.find that response worrying. We need to speak with a united voice but
:17:18. > :17:22.nobody knows what we should be saying. Military intervention is out
:17:23. > :17:26.for the West so we go to economic sanctions. Doesn't Vladimir Putin
:17:27. > :17:33.just say, oh, you want sanctions? I have turned off the gas tap. Yes, it
:17:34. > :17:37.is move and countermove, and it is difficult to predict where it will
:17:38. > :17:42.end up. In all these meetings that are being held, they do think a step
:17:43. > :18:13.or two ahead and try and set out clear lines. Thank you for coming in
:18:14. > :18:16.this morning. Labour has been struggling since
:18:17. > :18:18.2010 to decide exactly how to take education secretary Michael Gove,
:18:19. > :18:20.one of the boldest reformers of the coalition and most divisive figures.
:18:21. > :18:22.Ed Miliband appointed TV historian Tristram Hunt and many thought
:18:23. > :18:25.Labour had found the man to teach Michael Gove a lesson. But how much
:18:26. > :18:27.do we really know about the party's plans for England's schools? Wales,
:18:28. > :18:30.Scotland and Northern Ireland are a devolved matter. Child has been back
:18:31. > :18:32.to school to find out. A politician once told me, do you know why
:18:33. > :18:34.education secretaries changed schools? Because they can. Michael
:18:35. > :18:37.Gove might dispute the motive but he is changing schools, like this one.
:18:38. > :18:39.The changes he is ringing in our encouraging them to be academies,
:18:40. > :18:41.free from local authorities to control their own budgets, ushering
:18:42. > :18:43.in free schools, focusing on toughening exams and making them the
:18:44. > :18:47.core of the curriculum with less coursework, and offering heads more
:18:48. > :18:53.discretion on tougher discipline. And he is in a hurry to put all this
:18:54. > :18:57.in place. But has that shut out any chance for a Labour Government to
:18:58. > :19:02.change it all themselves and do they really want to? Any questions?
:19:03. > :19:07.Visiting a different school, first in line to get a crack at that
:19:08. > :19:11.would-be Labour's third shadow education secretary since 2010,
:19:12. > :19:15.Tristram Hunt. In post, he has not been taken about fine tuning
:19:16. > :19:18.previous direct opposition to free schools and he has also suggested
:19:19. > :19:22.teachers in England would have to be licensed under a Labour Government,
:19:23. > :19:26.allowing the worst to be sacked and offering training and development to
:19:27. > :19:30.others and of course ending coalition plans to allow unqualified
:19:31. > :19:41.teachers into classrooms. Full policy detail is still unmarked
:19:42. > :19:46.work. Your opinion about evolution? What is very clear is that Labour's
:19:47. > :19:50.education policy is still evolving. We are learning that they have some
:19:51. > :19:55.clear water, but we also seem, from the sting at the back, to get the
:19:56. > :19:58.feeling that there is not a great deal of difference from them and the
:19:59. > :20:04.current Government on types of schools and the way education should
:20:05. > :20:09.proceed. -- from listening at the back. So what exactly is different
:20:10. > :20:14.about their policy? What Tristram Hunt's job is to do is to be open
:20:15. > :20:19.and honest about the shared agenda between us and the Tories. There are
:20:20. > :20:23.a lot of areas where there is clear water between us and Tristram Hunt
:20:24. > :20:27.as to turn his back, shared agenda, stop fighting it, and forge our
:20:28. > :20:33.agenda, which I think people will be really interested in. The art of
:20:34. > :20:39.Government, of course, is to balance competing pictures of policy, even
:20:40. > :20:42.inside your own party. It is fair to say that if Labour reflects and
:20:43. > :20:46.draws its own visions of a shared agenda, it might have to square that
:20:47. > :20:50.idea with teaching unions, who are already unhappy with the pace and
:20:51. > :20:55.tone of change that the Government had sketched out. What we sincerely
:20:56. > :20:59.hope is that if Labour were to form the next Government, that they would
:21:00. > :21:22.look at a serious review of accountability measures. That is
:21:23. > :21:24.really what ways on teachers every single day. Actually they would look
:21:25. > :21:26.at restoring the possibility, for example, of local councillors to be
:21:27. > :21:29.able to open schools. That seems eminently sensible. If they are not
:21:30. > :21:31.going to move back from the free schools and academies programme at
:21:32. > :21:34.the very least they need to say that academy chains will be inspected
:21:35. > :21:36.because at the moment they are not. Labour have balls in the air on
:21:37. > :21:39.education and are still throwing around precise policy detail. There
:21:40. > :21:41.are areas that they could grab hold of and seize possession. A focus on
:21:42. > :21:43.the rounding of the people, developing character, the impact of
:21:44. > :21:46.digitalisation on the classroom Also the role and handling of
:21:47. > :21:50.teachers in the system and the interdependence of schools. That is
:21:51. > :21:54.all still to play for. Currently I think the difference between the
:21:55. > :21:59.parties is that the coalition policies, while we do not agree with
:22:00. > :22:03.all of them, are clear and explicit, and Labour's policies are yet to be
:22:04. > :22:10.formulated in a way that everybody can understand clearly. I don't
:22:11. > :22:17.think that Tristram Hunt or Miliband will want to pick unnecessary fights
:22:18. > :22:23.before the election. I think we will have quite a red, pinkish fuzziness
:22:24. > :22:29.around the whole area of policy but after the election there will be
:22:30. > :22:34.grey steel from Tristram Hunt. But if fuzzy policy before the election
:22:35. > :22:38.is the lesson plan, it does rather risk interested voters being left in
:22:39. > :22:48.the dark. Tristram Hunt joins me now for the
:22:49. > :22:54.Sunday interview. Welcome. Thank you. Which of Michael
:22:55. > :22:58.Gove's school reforms would you repeal? We are not interested in
:22:59. > :23:01.throwing a change for the sake of it. When I go round schools,
:23:02. > :23:05.teachers have been through very aggressive changes in the last three
:23:06. > :23:08.years, so when it comes to some of the curriculum reforms we have seen,
:23:09. > :23:13.we are not interested in changing those for the sake of it. Where we
:23:14. > :23:17.are interested in making change is having a focus on technical and
:23:18. > :23:22.vocational education, making sure that the forgotten 15% is properly
:23:23. > :23:26.addressed in our education system. What we saw in your package was an
:23:27. > :23:29.interesting description of how we have seen structural reforms in the
:23:30. > :23:33.names of schools. Academies, free schools, all the rest of it.
:23:34. > :23:36.International evidence is clear that it is the quality of leadership of
:23:37. > :23:40.the headteachers and the quality of teaching in the classroom that
:23:41. > :23:45.transforms the prospects of young people. Instead of tinkering around
:23:46. > :23:48.the names of schools, we focus on teacher quality. Viewers will be
:23:49. > :24:05.shocked to note that this Government approves of unqualified teachers in
:24:06. > :24:06.the classroom. We want to have fully qualified, passionate, motivated
:24:07. > :24:09.teachers in the classroom. It sounds like you might not repeal anything.
:24:10. > :24:11.You might build on it and you might go in a different direction, with
:24:12. > :24:14.more emphasis on technological education but no major repeal of the
:24:15. > :24:18.reforms of Michael Gove? I don't think you want to waste energy on
:24:19. > :24:22.undoing reforms. In certain situations they build on Labour
:24:23. > :24:27.Party policy. We introduced the sponsored academy programmes and we
:24:28. > :24:33.began the Teach First programmes, and we began the London challenge
:24:34. > :24:37.which transformed the educational prospects of children in London We
:24:38. > :24:40.want to roll that out across the country. You have said there will be
:24:41. > :24:45.no more free schools, which Michael Gove introduced, but you will allow
:24:46. > :24:54.parents let academies, which just means free schools by a different
:24:55. > :24:58.name. No, because they will be in certain areas. We want to create new
:24:59. > :25:02.schools with parents. What we have at the moment is a destructive and
:25:03. > :25:05.market-driven approach to education. I was in Stroud on
:25:06. > :25:11.Thursday and plans for a big new school, in an area with surplus
:25:12. > :25:15.places, threatened to destroy the viability of local, rural schools.
:25:16. > :25:18.We want schools to work together in a network of partnership and
:25:19. > :25:22.challenge, rather than this destructive market-driven approach.
:25:23. > :25:48.You say that, but your version of free schools, I think, would only be
:25:49. > :25:50.allowed where there is a shortage of places. That means that where there
:25:51. > :25:53.is an excess of bad schools, parents will have no choice. They still have
:25:54. > :25:56.to send their kids to bad schools. And we have to transform bad schools
:25:57. > :25:59.and that was always the Labour way in Government. At the moment we just
:26:00. > :26:00.have an insertion of new schools. Schools currently underperforming
:26:01. > :26:03.are now underperforming even more. Children only have one chance at
:26:04. > :26:05.education. What about their time in school? Our focus is on the
:26:06. > :26:07.leadership of the headteacher and having quality teachers in the
:26:08. > :26:10.classroom. So they cannot set up new better schools and they have to go
:26:11. > :26:13.to the bad schools. Tony Blair said it should be easier for parents to
:26:14. > :26:16.set up new schools where they are dissatisfied with existing schools.
:26:17. > :26:19.You are not saying that. Even where they are dissatisfied with existing
:26:20. > :26:25.schools, they cannot set up free schools and you are reneging on
:26:26. > :26:29.that. We live in difficult economic circumstances where we have got to
:26:30. > :26:36.focus public finances on the areas of absolute need. We need 250,0 0
:26:37. > :26:40.new school places. 150,000 in London alone. We have to focus on building
:26:41. > :26:48.new schools and where we have to put them. And secondly... Absolutely
:26:49. > :26:53.not. Focusing on those schools. Making sure we turned them around,
:26:54. > :26:56.just as we did in Government. We have had a remarkable degree of
:26:57. > :27:00.waste under the free school programme. If you think of the free
:27:01. > :27:05.school in Derby, the Academy in Bradford, and as we saw in the
:27:06. > :27:09.Telegraph on Friday, the free schools in Suffolk, a great deal of
:27:10. > :27:12.waste of public money on underperforming free schools. That
:27:13. > :27:16.is not the Labour way. We focus on making sure that kids in schools at
:27:17. > :27:22.the moment get the best possible education. Except that in your own
:27:23. > :27:29.backyard, in Stoke, only 34% of secondary school pupils attend a
:27:30. > :27:34.good or outstanding school. 148 out of 150 of the worst performing local
:27:35. > :27:37.authorities and it is Labour-controlled. Still terrible
:27:38. > :27:43.schools and yet you say parents should not have the freedom to start
:27:44. > :27:47.a better school. We have great schools in Stoke-on-Trent as well.
:27:48. > :27:51.We face challenges, just as Wolverhampton does and the Isle of
:27:52. > :27:56.Wight and Lincolnshire. Just like large parts of the country. What is
:27:57. > :28:00.the solution to that? Making sure we share excellence among the existing
:28:01. > :28:04.schools and making sure we have quality leadership in schools. Those
:28:05. > :28:08.schools in Stoke-on-Trent are all academies. It is not a question only
:28:09. > :28:11.of structure but of leadership. It is also a question of going back to
:28:12. > :28:15.the responsibility of parents to make sure their kids are school
:28:16. > :28:50.ready when they get to school. To make sure they are reading to their
:28:51. > :28:52.children in the evening. We can t put it all on teachers. Parents have
:28:53. > :28:55.responsibilities. I understand that but you have told me Labour's policy
:28:56. > :28:58.would not be to set up new schools which parents hope will be better.
:28:59. > :29:01.Parents continue to send their kids to bad schools in areas like Stoke.
:29:02. > :29:03.Labour has had plenty of time to sort out these schools in Stoke and
:29:04. > :29:05.they are still among the worst performing in the country. You are
:29:06. > :29:08.condemning these parents to having to send their kids to bad schools.
:29:09. > :29:11.Where we have seen the sett ing up of Derby, Suffolk, we have seen that
:29:12. > :29:14.is not the simple solution. Is simply setting up a new is not a
:29:15. > :29:16.successful model. What works is good leadership. I was in Birmingham on
:29:17. > :29:19.Friday at a failing comprehensive is not a successful model. What works
:29:20. > :29:21.is good leadership. I was in Birmingham on Friday at a failing
:29:22. > :29:24.comprehensive school and now people are queueing round the block to get
:29:25. > :29:25.into it. You can turn around schools with the right leadership,
:29:26. > :29:30.passionate and motivated teachers, and parents engaged with the
:29:31. > :29:36.learning outcome of their kids. In the last few years of the Labour
:29:37. > :29:39.Government, only four kids from your this Government would set up the new
:29:40. > :29:41.school. In Birmingham, they got in a great headmaster and turned the
:29:42. > :29:43.school around and now people are queueing round the block to get into
:29:44. > :29:45.it. You can turnaround schools with the right leadership, passionate and
:29:46. > :29:48.motivated teachers, and parents engaged with the learning outcome of
:29:49. > :29:51.their kids. In the last few years of a Labour Government, only four kids
:29:52. > :29:54.from your area of and you had plenty of chances to put this right but
:29:55. > :29:57.only four got to the two and you had plenty of chances to put this right
:29:58. > :30:03.but only four got to the two leading universities. Traditionally young
:30:04. > :30:07.people could leave school at 16 and walking two jobs in the potteries,
:30:08. > :30:10.the steel industry, the traditionally young people could
:30:11. > :30:16.leave school at 16 and walking two jobs in the potteries, the steel
:30:17. > :30:21.industry, the but also to get an apprenticeship at Jaguar Land
:30:22. > :30:27.Rover, JCB, Rolls-Royce. That is why Ed Miliband's focus on the forgotten
:30:28. > :30:30.15%, which we have just not seen from this Government, focusing on
:30:31. > :30:51.technical and vocational pathways, is fundamental to Your headmaster
:30:52. > :30:59.was guiles Slaughter. Was he a good teacher? He He never taught me.
:31:00. > :31:04.Over 90% of teeners in the private sector are qualified. They look for
:31:05. > :31:09.not simply teachers with qualified teacher status. Teachers with MAs.
:31:10. > :31:11.Teachers who are improving them cephalitis. Becoming better
:31:12. > :31:21.educators. cephalitis. Becoming better
:31:22. > :31:25.teaching. You were taught by unqualified teachers. Your parents
:31:26. > :31:29.paid over ?15,000 a year for you being taught by unqualified
:31:30. > :31:33.teachers. Why did you make such a big deal of it? Because we've seen
:31:34. > :31:39.right around the world those education systems which focus on
:31:40. > :31:45.having the most qualified teachers perform the best. It cannot be right
:31:46. > :31:50.that anyone can simply turn up, as at the moment, have schools at
:31:51. > :31:55.veritising for unqualified teachers teaching in the classroom. We want
:31:56. > :32:01.the best qualified teachers with the deepest subject knowledge, for the
:32:02. > :32:07.passion in learning for their kids. It is absurd we are having arguments
:32:08. > :32:11.about this. Simply having a paper qualification doesn't make you a
:32:12. > :32:17.great teacher. Let me take you to Brighton college. It is gone from
:32:18. > :32:20.the 147th to the 18 18th best private school in the land. Fllt the
:32:21. > :32:42.headmaster says: This is the top Sundaytimes school
:32:43. > :32:48.of the year. The school in derby where this Government allowed
:32:49. > :32:53.unqualified teaching assist taints. We had teachers who could barely
:32:54. > :32:57.speak English. That is because if you have unqualified teachers you
:32:58. > :33:01.end up with a dangerous situation. The problem with that school was not
:33:02. > :33:08.unqualified teachers. People were running that school who were unfit
:33:09. > :33:11.to run a school. We have an issue about discipline and behaviour
:33:12. > :33:15.management in some of our schools. Some of the skills teachers gain
:33:16. > :33:20.through qualifications and learning is how to manage classes and get the
:33:21. > :33:24.best out of kids at every stage It doesn't end with a qualified teacher
:33:25. > :33:29.status. That's just the beginning. We want our teachers to have
:33:30. > :33:35.continue it will development. It is not good enough to have your initial
:33:36. > :33:40.teacher trainingaged work through your career for 30 years. You need
:33:41. > :33:45.continual learning. Learning how to deal with digital technology.
:33:46. > :33:51.Refresh your subject knowledge. As an historian I help teachers. You've
:33:52. > :33:56.taught as an unqualified teacher. Not in charge of a subject group. I
:33:57. > :34:02.give the odd lecture. I'm-y to go to as many schools as possible. I don't
:34:03. > :34:07.blame you. It is uplifting. Would you sack all unqualified teachers?
:34:08. > :34:14.We'd want them all to gain teacher status. What if they say no? If they
:34:15. > :34:20.are not interested in improving skills and deepening their knowledge
:34:21. > :34:28.they should not be in the classroom. If a free school or academy hired a
:34:29. > :34:32.teach thinking they are a great teacher but unqualified, if they are
:34:33. > :34:37.then forced by you to fire them, they will be in breach of the law.
:34:38. > :34:41.They are being urged by us to make sure they have qualified teacher
:34:42. > :34:45.status. We've lots of unqualified teachers as long as they are on the
:34:46. > :34:50.pathway to making sure they are qualified. But if they say they
:34:51. > :34:53.don't want to do this, will you fire them? It is not an unreasonable
:34:54. > :34:58.suggestion is that the teachers in charge of our young people have
:34:59. > :35:04.qualifications to teach and inspire our young people particularly when
:35:05. > :35:10.we face global competition from Shanghai, Korea and so on. The head
:35:11. > :35:15.teacher of Brighton college finds incredibly inspeechational teachers
:35:16. > :35:20.who don't' necessarily have a teaching qualifications. It is a
:35:21. > :35:27.different skill to teach ten young nice boys and girls in Brighton to
:35:28. > :35:30.teaches 20 or 30 quids with challenging circumstances, special
:35:31. > :35:35.educational needs, different ability. Being a teacher at Brighton
:35:36. > :35:42.college is an easy gig in comparison to other schools. Where we want
:35:43. > :35:47.teachers to have a capacity to teach properly. Do you think Tristram
:35:48. > :35:54.could ever lead the Labour Party? I think Ed is a great leader, the
:35:55. > :35:57.reforms yesterday were a real sign for his leadership. And the fact
:35:58. > :36:02.David Owen, the man with a pre-history with our party is back
:36:03. > :36:06.with us. It is great. Even Gideon had to change his name to George.
:36:07. > :36:16.Have you thought of switching to Tommy or Tony? Maybe not Tony!
:36:17. > :36:20.Michael Foot was called Dingle Foot. I love the Labour because it accepts
:36:21. > :36:25.everybody from me to Len McCluskey. We are a big, broad happy family on
:36:26. > :36:30.our way to Government. Thank you very much.
:36:31. > :36:36.You're watching The Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in
:36:37. > :36:38.Scotland who leave us for Sunday politics Scotland. In over 20
:36:39. > :36:39.minutes lining up to come home for the ?20
:36:40. > :36:49.million HS2 engineering college. lining up to come home for the ?20
:36:50. > :36:53.Hello once again from the Midlands. I'm Patrick Burns. And we're in for
:36:54. > :36:56.a real education here today. Education, higher and further than
:36:57. > :36:59.we've ever been before. Tristram Hunt, Labour MP for Stoke`on`Trent
:37:00. > :37:05.Central, is the Shadow Education Secretary. Paul Uppal, Conservative
:37:06. > :37:07.MP for Wolverhampton South West, was Parliamentary Private Secretary to
:37:08. > :37:10.the Universities Minister, David 'Two Brains' Willetts, before being
:37:11. > :37:21.elevated to the Downing Street Policy Board. And Paul's an
:37:22. > :37:25.honourable exception ` one of just six non`white MPs out of more than
:37:26. > :37:29.60, representing a part of the country as diverse as ours. Afzal
:37:30. > :37:33.Amin, the Conservative prospective candidate for Dudley North, and a
:37:34. > :37:36.recent guest on this programme, is warning his party that it's still
:37:37. > :37:41.seen as racist in areas of the Black Country where he grew up. In an
:37:42. > :37:45.interview with the Huffington Post, the former Army officer says people
:37:46. > :37:47.like him should be spoken to "as British people, not as people from
:37:48. > :37:50.abroad", highlighting the Home Office's Go Home anti`illegal
:37:51. > :38:00.immigration poster vans, as "a serious communication failure".
:38:01. > :38:03.Labour's majority in Dudley North is just 649, but the Conservatives won
:38:04. > :38:14.only 16% of Britain's ethnic minority vote at the last election.
:38:15. > :38:20.On the face of it, he actually has a bit of a point. I think he made his
:38:21. > :38:29.point. I don't entirely agree with him. You spoke about education. The
:38:30. > :38:42.main difference I see between the parties... One of just three
:38:43. > :38:59.Conservatives who are not white. I also represent Enoch Powell's old
:39:00. > :39:02.seat. We have a new free school. I think we are actually engaging with
:39:03. > :39:18.the immigrant communities in providing solutions. And Labour have
:39:19. > :39:22.no more MPs than the Conservatives. For a little bit have to reflect
:39:23. > :39:29.modern Britain in all its complexities. Parties need to be as
:39:30. > :39:36.open as possible. I do think the government's Go Home poster vans
:39:37. > :39:42.driving around established migrant communities was a real error. None
:39:43. > :39:46.of us are completely virtuous in this field, we have all got more
:39:47. > :40:03.work to do to reflect modern Britain and get talent into the parties. We
:40:04. > :40:10.are talking about BME being black minority ethnic. They want to hear
:40:11. > :40:16.their politicians speak about common`sense issues. The issues that
:40:17. > :40:19.matter to non`white voters are the same as white voters. Job
:40:20. > :40:26.opportunities, education and enterprise. 8% of voters in this
:40:27. > :40:35.country, ethnic minorities. How will Parliament look in 2050 when that
:40:36. > :40:42.accounts for 20% of the vote? Parliament must change to reflect
:40:43. > :40:51.changing Britain. You often see areas of poverty within their thick
:40:52. > :40:55.amenity as well and we have to reach out to that as well as white working
:40:56. > :40:58.class areas. Still to come, can dissolution
:40:59. > :41:01.really be the solution for Mid Staffordshire? Protesters are
:41:02. > :41:03.planning legal action as hospital services are moved from Stafford and
:41:04. > :41:07.Cannock to Walsall, Wolverhampton and Stoke. I'll be asking our Stoke
:41:08. > :41:08.and Wolverhampton MPs here today how their respective hospitals can cope,
:41:09. > :41:24.a little later. A couple of weeks ago we told you
:41:25. > :41:27.how Stoke's Labour leaders are vying with their Conservative counterparts
:41:28. > :41:30.in Crewe for a high`speed railway station. Now we can exclusively
:41:31. > :41:33.reveal details of another bidding war over where a new ?20 million HS2
:41:34. > :41:41.college should be established to train a new generation of engineers
:41:42. > :41:43.to build and run the network. More on this from our BBC WM political
:41:44. > :41:57.reporter Kathryn Stanczyszyn. Rail expertise in Birmingham. The
:41:58. > :42:01.Centre for Rail Research and Education at Birmingham University
:42:02. > :42:06.is one of the largest of its kind in the UK. We have an education
:42:07. > :42:09.programme which is unrivalled in the UK and Europe, with about 100
:42:10. > :42:11.Masters students at any one time, 50 doctoral students from next year,
:42:12. > :42:19.undergraduate programmes which include a lot of engineering as
:42:20. > :42:22.well. But now we could see more expertise like this coming from
:42:23. > :42:25.Birmingham, with a brand new college to train the rail engineers who'll
:42:26. > :42:27.build and maintain HS2. We've learned that nine further education
:42:28. > :42:30.colleges in Greater Birmingham's Local Enterprise Partnership area
:42:31. > :42:33.are working together on a proposal ` two in Worcestershire, two in South
:42:34. > :42:41.Staffordshire, and five across Birmingham and Solihull, including
:42:42. > :42:45.Birmingham Metropolitan. What we are keen to say is the message that we
:42:46. > :42:49.want to give to Government is that, here in the Greater Birmingham area,
:42:50. > :42:52.we can respond to the need and we can deliver all that's required to
:42:53. > :42:56.actually get this fantastic development here in the city. On
:42:57. > :42:58.Thursday, plans for the new HS2 station at Birmingham's Curzon
:42:59. > :43:05.Street and surrounding developments were announced, bringing with them
:43:06. > :43:15.14,000 jobs. A new college in the city is another part of the economic
:43:16. > :43:21.plan. Birmingham will be associated around the world as being a centre
:43:22. > :43:25.of HS2. What we have here is a once`in`a`lifetime opportunity to
:43:26. > :43:29.create job opportunities for young learners which will see them through
:43:30. > :43:32.their lifetime. The former LGV manufacturing site in Washwood Heath
:43:33. > :43:35.has already marked as the location for a central maintenance depot.
:43:36. > :43:39.Business leaders say it would be the most sensible place for a college.
:43:40. > :43:43.You're going to have a train set to play with. So you go to college to
:43:44. > :43:47.learn the skills, you can then come and apply them because the real`life
:43:48. > :43:49.high`speed rail system will be on your doorstep. What is more perfect?
:43:50. > :43:54.Industry observers say Birmingham has a very strong case for a
:43:55. > :43:57.college. It's on the HS2 line, it's already been earmarked as a major
:43:58. > :44:00.hub for the project and there is real engineering expertise in the
:44:01. > :44:06.city but it does face stiff competition from places like
:44:07. > :44:10.Manchester, Crewe, and Derby. It's thought there's a budget of around
:44:11. > :44:14.?20 million for the college. So do the people in charge think that
:44:15. > :44:17.Birmingham's got what it takes? It's accessible to a large number of
:44:18. > :44:21.parts of the country so I think there are a number of things that
:44:22. > :44:24.argue for Birmingham putting in a bid and obviously they will have to
:44:25. > :44:29.then make their case compared with other cities, which I'm sure will be
:44:30. > :44:31.interested as well. The Government will reveal more about the
:44:32. > :44:35.competitive process for a new college later this month. The people
:44:36. > :44:41.who want to bring it to Birmingham say they're on the right track.
:44:42. > :44:44.Kathryn Stanczyszyn. And we're also joined here today by Jerry Marshall.
:44:45. > :44:47.He's written a book, entitled Travels With An Inflatable Elephant,
:44:48. > :44:55.which includes a lengthy chapter detailing his experiences as an
:44:56. > :44:59.anti`HS2 campaigner. His opinion of the project may or may not have
:45:00. > :45:02.something to do with the fact that his home at Burton Green in
:45:03. > :45:09.Warwickshire is on the proposed route between Birmingham and London.
:45:10. > :45:18.I am right on the line. But this is about national interest. We would be
:45:19. > :45:26.better off but from the beginning this is about national interest. HS2
:45:27. > :45:30.could trigger serious investment in further and higher education. You
:45:31. > :45:36.must welcome that. I wish Birmingham well. ?20 million is peanuts
:45:37. > :45:44.compared to the investment in HS2. I think it is strange to set up a
:45:45. > :45:52.college for one project. The business Department say they have
:45:53. > :45:57.set this up as a world leader, a potential export industry of
:45:58. > :46:01.specialist expertise. Most of the world are closing their increasingly
:46:02. > :46:05.bankrupt lines. We must look at the future and where we are falling
:46:06. > :46:13.behind is in high`speed broadband. We are laughed at by Malaysian 's
:46:14. > :46:23.who are way ahead of us. Sure, have a college but the HS2 idea is nuts.
:46:24. > :46:26.It is something which is ?1000 for every man woman and child in the UK
:46:27. > :46:31.and it does not meet their capacity needs. We could meet them in a much
:46:32. > :46:38.cheaper way and it makes no business sense. But it could turn out to be
:46:39. > :46:42.an expensive way of spending money efforts turns out that we have a new
:46:43. > :46:47.generation of specialists along with the likes of Germany, Japan and
:46:48. > :46:50.France, people who have high`speed lines, who have cutting`edge
:46:51. > :46:57.experience and can compete on the international stage. I wish that
:46:58. > :47:06.Birmingham had worked on the maglev idea. We will find that technology
:47:07. > :47:11.has moved on and Japan will be the leaders in a completely different
:47:12. > :47:19.type of technology. We have talked about people vying for the station
:47:20. > :47:27.and are now about the college. Isn't it argument about who gets the
:47:28. > :47:31.spoils of HS2? It comes down to the fact that it is complete nonsense.
:47:32. > :47:44.Even the government say that it only generates ?1 40 benefit `` ?1.40 of
:47:45. > :47:49.benefit for every ?1. If you save ten minutes, it becomes productive
:47:50. > :47:58.and you don't spend ten minutes more in bed dash that is a nonsense. I
:47:59. > :48:03.think this is a very exciting project for HS2. It subscribes to
:48:04. > :48:07.Labour's vision. If you have big public works projects then you won't
:48:08. > :48:13.skills and apprenticeships to come with them. You want a new station on
:48:14. > :48:18.Stoke`on`Trent to come with it. Not only a new station but it diversion
:48:19. > :48:24.of the line from Birmingham to Manchester. You must have more broad
:48:25. > :48:31.results and skills for a piece of major public investment. It is said
:48:32. > :48:39.that it is a poor reflection that these colleges are not already
:48:40. > :48:50.sufficiently cooled up. `` tooled up. In essence, I come from a
:48:51. > :48:54.construction background. If we go ahead with this, we need to the
:48:55. > :49:01.skill sets to meet the need. I was at a local college and it has a long
:49:02. > :49:06.history of engineering excellence. To continue that, this dovetails
:49:07. > :49:12.quite neatly with the project. We are talking as if this project will
:49:13. > :49:16.go ahead. We have heard about divisions in the Shadow Cabinet.
:49:17. > :49:25.Let's ask the man in the Shadow Cabinet. The Labour Party is
:49:26. > :49:30.committed. We have concerns about costs and Ed Balls is rigorous about
:49:31. > :49:35.public finance but we are now looking at that period of
:49:36. > :49:38.consultation about the line from Lichfield to Manchester and in
:49:39. > :49:46.Stoke`on`Trent we have exciting propositions for that. We are a
:49:47. > :49:50.broad church on many issues. But I think there is a consensus emerging
:49:51. > :49:55.that, yes, it will probably go ahead. If we are going to have the
:49:56. > :50:03.excellence of education which is the backbone of UK industry then I see
:50:04. > :50:08.HS2 being central to that. Well, it's hands as though you are backing
:50:09. > :50:19.a loser. Business demand for trains is declining. I saw only one person
:50:20. > :50:27.on a peak`time train. Was that because you were in the carriage?
:50:28. > :50:39.Good point! There is a problem with commuter trains to London and HS2
:50:40. > :50:42.will not help. How's this for a couple of killer
:50:43. > :50:44.facts? Half of Britain's manufactured exports originate in
:50:45. > :50:49.the Midlands, according to the Business Secretary, Vince Cable.
:50:50. > :50:53.It's a major reason why the economy here is predicted to grow at up to
:50:54. > :50:58.6% this year, twice the UK average, according to the West Midlands
:50:59. > :51:02.Economic Forum. Here's our business correspondent, Peter Plisner.
:51:03. > :51:05.With places like Ironbridge ` the birthpace of the industrial
:51:06. > :51:09.revolution in this region ` it's not surprising that the Midlands became
:51:10. > :51:12.the workshop of the world. But where there was growth, there was also
:51:13. > :51:18.decline, partly because many products traditionally were switch
:51:19. > :51:23.to cheaper factories abroad. Nothing was safe ` not even well known
:51:24. > :51:27.brands. There was uproar when production of HP sauce, made on this
:51:28. > :51:33.site in Birmingham for more than 100 years, was moved to Holland. It was
:51:34. > :51:37.a sad sight when the factory was demolished, leaving the all too
:51:38. > :51:39.familiar derelict wasteland. It has been, traditionally, that
:51:40. > :51:43.off`shoring has been about going to where labour costs are lower in
:51:44. > :51:46.particular or energy costs are lower and when companies, overall, can
:51:47. > :51:51.find a cheaper way of making something than here in the West
:51:52. > :51:54.Midlands. But there's evidence that some manufacturing is returning to
:51:55. > :51:57.the Midlands and order books here are also growing because of success
:51:58. > :52:02.at companies like Jaguar Land Rover and JCB. Nationally, we are
:52:03. > :52:07.expecting growth to be about 2.5% or 3% this year. And I think that the
:52:08. > :52:10.West Midlands economy, given the surge in manufacturing and exports,
:52:11. > :52:14.would probably be in the region of 5`6% this year. The Business
:52:15. > :52:19.Secretary, Vince Cable, says the strong performance here is helping
:52:20. > :52:23.the economy. If this recovery we are experiencing is going to be kept
:52:24. > :52:26.going, and it must be for the sake of the country, it has got to be
:52:27. > :52:29.export`based, it's got to be increasingly manufacturing`based,
:52:30. > :52:34.and the West Midlands, more than any other part of the country, is going
:52:35. > :52:40.to deliver that. And that means growth here must continue. And if
:52:41. > :52:50.so, that should also mean more jobs and lower unemployment.
:52:51. > :52:57.All very encouraging but we often, against the problem that the low
:52:58. > :53:02.skills base in parts of the country really makes it increasingly
:53:03. > :53:08.difficult to get the economic warmth through to the areas that you
:53:09. > :53:12.represent. There is a challenge but it is exciting that we are seeing
:53:13. > :53:16.production coming back to the UK from places like China and
:53:17. > :53:26.Indonesia. How can young unemployed people compete for jobs? They have
:53:27. > :53:34.to up skill. That is why we are excited by a Saran next skills
:53:35. > :53:40.Academy. Major institutions supporting British business is part
:53:41. > :53:55.of this. I always come here and see these marks on the table `` mugs and
:53:56. > :53:59.they are not made in Britain. Your city, Wolverhampton, looks
:54:00. > :54:05.increasingly disconnected from what we saw there. There is a real
:54:06. > :54:15.history. We were talking about HS2. The chairman of HS2 talked about how
:54:16. > :54:18.we up skill because for many years we have had people with engineering
:54:19. > :54:25.skills but we have not had the constant stream of work. I visited
:54:26. > :54:31.Jaguar Land Rover and the Prime Minister was also there and it is
:54:32. > :54:36.crucial that everybody works together. Part of this as having
:54:37. > :54:41.decent careers advice and the government has destroyed that. If we
:54:42. > :54:48.want young people to pursue technical and vocational pathways
:54:49. > :54:51.then they need to have that advice. Let's catch up with more of the
:54:52. > :54:55.political developments making the news here over the past few days, in
:54:56. > :54:58.60 seconds. It's brought to us this week by BBC Midlands Today's
:54:59. > :55:04.Elizabeth Glinka. Lord Bilston has died at the age the
:55:05. > :55:06.age of 71. As Dennis Turner, he was MP for Wolverhampton South East for
:55:07. > :55:09.18 years. More local authority cuts have been
:55:10. > :55:12.confirmed. ?20 million in Stoke, ?19 million in Coventry and, in
:55:13. > :55:17.Warwickshire, councillors have voted to look at becoming a unitary
:55:18. > :55:20.authority. The building phase of Birmingham's
:55:21. > :55:24.new John Lewis store is complete. It's due to open next year as part
:55:25. > :55:28.of the Grand Central redevelopment at New Street Station. The unique
:55:29. > :55:32.thing about this shop, of course, is the connection to New Street
:55:33. > :55:35.Station. That's not been done in any way by a John Lewis shop or, indeed,
:55:36. > :55:38.by any department store anywhere in the country.
:55:39. > :55:43.A direct train link from Shropshire to London could be on the timetable
:55:44. > :55:46.by the end of this year. It comes after the original plan from Virgin
:55:47. > :55:48.for a service from May hit the buffers.
:55:49. > :55:51.And the trust which runs Stafford and Cannock hospitals is being
:55:52. > :55:56.abolished. Neighbouring hospitals in Walsall, Wolverhampton and Stoke
:55:57. > :56:07.will pick up some of the services. Campaigners are planning legal
:56:08. > :56:14.action. We keep hearing that Wolverhampton,
:56:15. > :56:21.the hospital which will be taking up the load from this, is fully
:56:22. > :56:30.stretched as it is. I just want to pay tribute to Dennis Turner.
:56:31. > :56:33.Smashing fellow. This is an issue which is absolutely paramount. There
:56:34. > :56:40.has been a lot of discussion about Mid Staffs and we will have to look
:56:41. > :56:46.at how this comes out in the wash. There are some issues about how this
:56:47. > :56:50.will affect Wolverhampton. It is my job to make sure I speak to Jeremy
:56:51. > :56:59.Hunt and the Prime Minister about that knock`on effect. Have they got
:57:00. > :57:10.the scope to take it on? We are working on this. What about Stoke? I
:57:11. > :57:17.will join in paying tribute to Dennis. In terms of the pressure
:57:18. > :57:23.this could put on the provision we have in Stoke`on`Trent, we are
:57:24. > :57:30.making missing representations. We can take up the flak, we have the
:57:31. > :57:34.skills and capacity is but we have to make sure that local people's
:57:35. > :57:38.health provision is not and firstly affected by this. Health is not a
:57:39. > :57:42.competition. Everybody comes together and does their thing in the
:57:43. > :57:49.NHS and that is what is so important about it. But it can look political
:57:50. > :57:53.when you have constituent MP is fending off rival claims for up
:57:54. > :58:01.other areas and defending their hospitals. This is the problem of
:58:02. > :58:09.too much marketisation. The broader sense of duty and mission within the
:58:10. > :58:16.NHS is so significant. How do we get a more wide strategy than just
:58:17. > :58:20.beyond city limits? People assume it is just an issue of money. People
:58:21. > :58:25.often want the best care but they also want their vocational passion
:58:26. > :58:34.and bedside manner that you used to get from your GP and consultant.
:58:35. > :58:37.Jeremy Hunt has said we should look again at the question of consultant
:58:38. > :58:45.led maternity services being retained. Yes, and a case is being
:58:46. > :58:53.made in Stafford about the number of live births. It seems there is some
:58:54. > :58:58.dispute over the data. From Stoke`on`Trent's perspective, have
:58:59. > :59:04.we got the resources and will we be able to provide that care? And
:59:05. > :59:10.enormously challenging situation from the point of view of
:59:11. > :59:14.Wolverhampton and Stoke`on`Trent. My thanks to Paul Uppal and Tristram
:59:15. > :59:17.Hunt. A quick word about a programme coming up a little later today. The
:59:18. > :59:20.Great Glass Mystery investigates the wartime disappearance of stained
:59:21. > :59:24.glass from Coventry Cathedral. Was it stolen? Did it end up in Iceland?
:59:25. > :59:32.The answers could prove embarrassing here at home and abroad. That's at
:59:33. > :59:40.4.10 this afternoon, here on BBC One Midlands. This
:59:41. > :59:43.Government to change it. Thank you both for being here. Andrew, back to
:59:44. > :59:56.you. This week grant Shap said he wanted
:59:57. > :00:02.to rebrand the Tories as the workers' party to show it can reach
:00:03. > :00:06.out to blue-collar workers. One Conservative Party MP said they
:00:07. > :00:14.should scrap what he said was their boring old logo. We asked him and
:00:15. > :00:23.two other independent MPs how they'd freshen up their logos.
:00:24. > :00:29.Aspiration's always been our core value. About helping people get on
:00:30. > :00:34.with life. Giving people ladders of opportunity. That's why our symbol
:00:35. > :00:39.must reflect our values of aspiration and why I'm calling for
:00:40. > :00:46.our symbol to be changed from a tree to a ladder which symbolises social
:00:47. > :00:50.mobility and stands up for everything conservatism represents.
:00:51. > :00:56.I like an he will fanned, an animal that never forgets. We're the only
:00:57. > :01:02.party which seems to remember what life was like before the NHS and
:01:03. > :01:05.minimum wage and the global financial crash was caused by too
:01:06. > :01:11.little regulation not too much. We have a leader who can spot the
:01:12. > :01:17.elephant in the room, the lack of women on the Tory frontbench. The
:01:18. > :01:23.republicans in America have had the same idea. Theirs is a suspicious
:01:24. > :01:27.blue. Our would be deepest red. We love our Liberal Democrat bird. Mrs
:01:28. > :01:32.Thatcher called it the dead parrot when we launched it. We won the
:01:33. > :01:38.Eastbourne by-election off the Tories very soon aftered with.
:01:39. > :01:43.Perhaps it feels like we're in a coalition cage but we're escaping
:01:44. > :01:47.that soon. Why does it fly to the right? Most Liberal Democrats would
:01:48. > :01:55.want it to fly to the left. I hope it will soon.
:01:56. > :02:00.Interesting there. Let's stick with the Robert Hall pin one. He was
:02:01. > :02:06.being serious. The others were fun. It is interesting that talking about
:02:07. > :02:12.appealing to the blue collared vote, the upper working class, lower
:02:13. > :02:16.middle class, curiously now neither Mr Cameron nor Mr Miliband has great
:02:17. > :02:24.cut through with these people. But in wanting to be the Workers Party,
:02:25. > :02:30.how do you square that with choosing five old Etonians to draw up four
:02:31. > :02:35.next manifesto. Labour said one of the things was cutting inheritance
:02:36. > :02:39.tax, after all their priorities they went to privilege rather than earned
:02:40. > :02:44.income. Rebranding is not enough. The one question the modernisers
:02:45. > :02:51.never asked themselves when they took party ten years ago is the
:02:52. > :02:54.thing we know as the Conservative Party, salvageable as a brand? I'm
:02:55. > :03:00.beginning to think it isn't. If you look at all public opinion research,
:03:01. > :03:05.there are lots of people in this contrary with Conservative views.
:03:06. > :03:11.They won't vote Tory or contemplate the possibility of voting Tory. Can
:03:12. > :03:17.we get over the electoral problems by relaunching as a different
:03:18. > :03:22.pro-business, pro-worker party. That means new name, new logo. It will
:03:23. > :03:27.mean new people as well. If you say you're on the sides of what Thatcher
:03:28. > :03:31.called the strivers, the people themselves want to see you have
:03:32. > :03:36.strivers in the people who run your party so you know what we've been
:03:37. > :03:41.through, the struggles we've had. How many of the six drawing up the
:03:42. > :03:46.manifesto have had ever a mortgage. The one who's not an old Etonian
:03:47. > :03:51.went to St Paul's. He's a day schoolboy! It is interesting and it
:03:52. > :03:57.was funny you mentioned an elephant. Don't think of an elephant as the
:03:58. > :04:01.title of that book. Calling it the Workers Party draws attention to the
:04:02. > :04:06.Tories biggest electoral weakness. The idea they are a class apart Out
:04:07. > :04:11.of touch. I think it is interesting, they have identified their elections
:04:12. > :04:19.are won or lost by this particular demo graphic of the C 1, and C .
:04:20. > :04:24.Mrs Thatcher got them by the shed load, Tony Blair got them. His
:04:25. > :04:30.failure in 2010 is the reason David Cameron didn't win an overall
:04:31. > :04:35.majority. I'm disappointed with the ladder. You should have a hammer or
:04:36. > :04:40.sickle! The Conservatives have a terrible brand problem. You heard
:04:41. > :04:43.them explaining why they did badly in the Wythenshawe by-election,
:04:44. > :04:48.saying there's quite a large council estate there In 1961, I think the
:04:49. > :04:54.Conservatives won a by-election back then, they were getting through to
:04:55. > :04:57.those sort of voters. There is not a single Conservative councillor in
:04:58. > :05:03.Manchester. They have this terrible problem. You're right for them to
:05:04. > :05:09.pick up on the five Etonians writing their manifesto. David Cameron sir
:05:10. > :05:17.rounding himself with his own. He doesn't have to do that. I seas
:05:18. > :05:25.things like isn't Robert Halpen great. He decides and has his own.
:05:26. > :05:29.He has some more slightly common people from St Paul's! One of the
:05:30. > :05:34.ways the Conservatives hoped to broaden their appeal is the tougher
:05:35. > :05:40.line on immigration. We learned net immigration is rising substantially.
:05:41. > :05:46.Back up over 200,000. Nigel Farage of UKIP wrapped up the rhetoric In
:05:47. > :05:56.scores of our cities and market towns, this country, in a short
:05:57. > :06:02.space of time, has become N'Zonzi rkable whether it is --
:06:03. > :06:08.unrecognisable. Whether it is the impact on local schools and
:06:09. > :06:12.hospitals. In many parts of England you don't hear English spoken, this
:06:13. > :06:17.is not the kind of the community we want to leave to our children and
:06:18. > :06:24.grandchildren. Helen, maybe people, I assume, will love the sentiments.
:06:25. > :06:31.Others will say, this is getting... It is going down a dangerous road.
:06:32. > :06:38.Nigel Farage's wife is German and he shares a flat with Godfully Bloom,
:06:39. > :06:45.nobody knows what he's saying half of the time. You can handle the
:06:46. > :06:55.letters from Yorkshire. Alex Salmond does not make his case on Scotland
:06:56. > :07:02.for the Scottish. Let's put aside whether the policy's right or wrong.
:07:03. > :07:09.How bad, by the Tories own lights, is the fact the net figure for
:07:10. > :07:14.immigration went up 60,000? It looks really bad. If I was a Tory
:07:15. > :07:19.strategist, I'd be philosophical about it. Immigration, even if they
:07:20. > :07:24.were meeting the target, I don't think the public would believe it.
:07:25. > :07:29.It is like crime a few years ago, the crime rates had been declining
:07:30. > :07:35.for the best part of 20 years but the fear of crime remains high.
:07:36. > :07:38.There's such a degree of cynicism that regardless of your
:07:39. > :07:44.administrative record in Government, the public will remain hostile to
:07:45. > :07:48.you. This is where Nigel Farage can be potent. He said it is not about
:07:49. > :07:55.numbers. It is about community. It is about people seeing their
:07:56. > :08:00.communities change. And in the Sunday Telegraph, it was said this
:08:01. > :08:04.isn't a dog whistle, a it is a meaty bone for a bull terrier. The problem
:08:05. > :08:08.for the Government on these figures is we know why the net migration
:08:09. > :08:14.figures are not looking good. They got down the non-EU figures but the
:08:15. > :08:20.EU figures are going up. From Italy and Spain as their economies tanked,
:08:21. > :08:25.people came here. If he hadn't made such a big deal of the numbers, the
:08:26. > :08:27.Tories, I mean, you could present this as a huge success story. If you
:08:28. > :08:32.believe immigration was good for the country. You would say it doesn t
:08:33. > :08:35.matter what Labour says, the best and the brightest young people from
:08:36. > :08:40.all over Europe are voting with their feet to come to Britain. But
:08:41. > :08:44.you never hear that case being made and certainly not by Labour. They
:08:45. > :08:48.acknowledge although immigration is best in the abstract for the
:08:49. > :08:53.economy, people don't feel it in their daily lives. There's a huge
:08:54. > :08:57.vacuum for the case where immigration should be in our public
:08:58. > :09:02.life. I remember a time when the economy was in such decline there
:09:03. > :09:06.was a rush to the door in the sixties and seventies. Now we are
:09:07. > :09:11.claiming our economy's doing better than any of the other major
:09:12. > :09:16.economies bar Germany, people want to join in our success. London was a
:09:17. > :09:23.declining city until the mid-eighties. Theresa May cannot be
:09:24. > :09:28.honest. She was proposing a cap on immigration. Not going to happen.
:09:29. > :09:33.Today she is saying maybe people from poorer member states cannot
:09:34. > :09:38.come in until their economies grow. That's future accession states.
:09:39. > :09:42.That's Turkey in ten years' time It is causing divisions with the
:09:43. > :09:47.coalition. She's bashing Vince Cable. You often see Liberal
:09:48. > :09:51.Democrats bashing the Tories. You don't often see a Tory minister bash
:09:52. > :09:55.Vince Cable. She does on the immigration figures. He thought they
:09:56. > :10:00.were good news. Last week, Vince responded to the news by saying it
:10:01. > :10:04.was a policy he was happy for the gift to flunk. The problem was going
:10:05. > :10:10.for a cap. There are six moving parts. UK citizens leaving, coming
:10:11. > :10:16.back. EU citizens leaving and coming back and then third party nationals.
:10:17. > :10:24.And students coming to study. Of course. You only have control over
:10:25. > :10:32.the EU citizens. Have you to clamp down on ace strayian, Chinese or
:10:33. > :10:39.American graduates. They should have gone for the Australian points
:10:40. > :10:48.system. I don't have a pure cap on numbers just background etc. Tim
:10:49. > :10:51.Farran said in the European election either vogue Liberal Democrat or
:10:52. > :10:56.UKIP. He turned that to his advantage. It is hopeful but he s
:10:57. > :11:06.come up with a way to spin this Labour has his special conference.
:11:07. > :11:12.Was it or was it not an event? Not sure it was the biggest moment in
:11:13. > :11:17.the party since 1918. But things fell apart in the special conference
:11:18. > :11:22.in 1981. 2004 got another special conference. Who's on board? David
:11:23. > :11:27.Owen who founded the gang of four. He's not joined but he's given them
:11:28. > :11:32.money. He's not going to sit with them in the Lord's. He's given
:11:33. > :11:38.money. They lost the gang of four. Back comes David Owen. Not historic?
:11:39. > :11:44.Why would he want it to be more significant than it was. There's a
:11:45. > :11:48.tendency to see him taking the fight to his party. Why would he want
:11:49. > :11:56.that? The fact it has not pleased Grant Shapps is not a test to see
:11:57. > :12:07.whether this has worked. It has been described as an historic moment and
:12:08. > :12:12.incremental of what John did. The trade union block voters disappeared
:12:13. > :12:20.a long time ago. They still have 50% of the vote. But 2,000 of union
:12:21. > :12:25.members voting for this guy has gone. It is a reform from 20 years
:12:26. > :12:29.ago. Welcome but not historic. Ed Miliband's stored up trouble. Len
:12:30. > :12:35.McCluskey wants a million new homes and answered to the benefit caps is
:12:36. > :12:39.not reconcilable with the deficit reduction strategy. In five years'
:12:40. > :12:45.time if there is a Labour Government it becomes very difficult. We should
:12:46. > :12:49.keep an eye on it? Always. Labour Party process is never ending.
:12:50. > :12:55.Unlike this programme. That's all from us today. Continuing reports of
:12:56. > :13:00.events in the Ukraine on the BBC News Channel. There's no Daily
:13:01. > :13:05.Politics tomorrow because of cover Arg of the Nelson Mandela memorial
:13:06. > :13:10.service at Westminster Abbey on BBC Two live. We'll be back on the Daily
:13:11. > :13:15.Politics on Tuesday at midday. We'll be back here next week with the Work
:13:16. > :13:19.and Pensions Secretary, Ian Smith. If it is Sunday, it is the Sunday
:13:20. > :13:37.Politics.