:00:34. > :00:37.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics, where we're talking
:00:38. > :00:46.about the Europe-wide contest that really matters. No, not Eurovision.
:00:47. > :00:49.The European elections. There are local elections across England too
:00:50. > :00:53.on May 22nd. The party leaders are campaigning ahead of polling day.
:00:54. > :00:59.The results could be a pointer to the Big One, May 2015. We'll be
:01:00. > :01:03.speaking to the man in charge of Labour's election battle plan. Has
:01:04. > :01:06.the opposition really got its sights set on all-out victory in 2015? Or
:01:07. > :01:13.will it just be content with squeaking home? And you can't
:01:14. > :01:17.mention elections these days without talking about the impact of this
:01:18. > :01:22.And in the Midlands, one giant him if UKIP really
:01:23. > :01:25.And in the Midlands, one giant Euro`constituency of nearly six
:01:26. > :01:27.million people electing seven MEPs. We'll have the first of our two live
:01:28. > :01:29.debates with the parties of in, out, debates with the parties of in, out,
:01:30. > :01:37.boroughs. What will make a difference to the way you vote?
:01:38. > :01:42.And I'm joined by three journalists guaranteed to bring a touch of
:01:43. > :01:45.Eurovision glamour to your Sunday morning. With views more
:01:46. > :01:48.controversial than a bearded Austrian drag act and twice the
:01:49. > :01:58.dress sense, it's Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. So you might
:01:59. > :02:00.have thought you've already heard David Cameron promise an in-out
:02:01. > :02:07.referendum on EU membership in 2017 if he's still Prime Minister. Many
:02:08. > :02:09.times. Many, many times. Well he obviously doesn't think you've been
:02:10. > :02:14.listening, because he's been saying it again today. Here he is speaking
:02:15. > :02:18.to the BBC earlier. We will hold a referendum by the end of 2017. It
:02:19. > :02:22.will be a referendum on an in-out basis. Do we stay in a reformed
:02:23. > :02:25.European Union or do we leave? And I've said very clearly that whatever
:02:26. > :02:28.the outcome of the next election, and of course I want an overall
:02:29. > :02:31.majority and I'm hoping and believing I can win an overall
:02:32. > :02:34.majority, that people should be in no doubt I will not become Prime
:02:35. > :02:45.Minister unless I can guarantee that we will hold a referendum. Here's
:02:46. > :02:49.saying there that an overall majority there will definitely be a
:02:50. > :02:52.referendum. If these are the minority position, he won't form a
:02:53. > :02:58.new coalition unless they agree to a referendum, too. The Lib Dems a
:02:59. > :03:00.pulmonary agree to that. They probably will because the Prime
:03:01. > :03:04.ministers have a strong argument which is I gave you a referendum
:03:05. > :03:08.back in 2010 so the least I need is theirs and the Lib Dems are the only
:03:09. > :03:12.party who have stood in recent elections on a clear mandate to hold
:03:13. > :03:15.a referendum, so it is difficult for them to say no, there was
:03:16. > :03:20.interesting the interview he did earlier today. He named everything
:03:21. > :03:25.was going to ask for. The most controversial with him, as he said
:03:26. > :03:30.in his speech last year, he wants to take Britain out of the commitment
:03:31. > :03:35.to make the European Union and ever closer union. That is a very big
:03:36. > :03:38.ask, but the point is, he may well get it because the choice for the
:03:39. > :03:44.European Union now, France and Germany, is a clear wonderful do
:03:45. > :03:47.Britain in or out? Previously, it was can you put up with a British
:03:48. > :03:51.prime ministers being annoying? I think you'll find the answer is they
:03:52. > :03:56.are willing to pay a price but not any price to keep Britain in. In
:03:57. > :04:02.this scenario, Labour would have lost the election again because we
:04:03. > :04:05.are talking the slowly happen if Mr Cameron is the largest party or has
:04:06. > :04:10.an overall majority. Could you then see Labour deciding we had better go
:04:11. > :04:12.along with a referendum, too? I think that's unlikely because as I
:04:13. > :04:15.think that's unlikely because there's a huge upside for that for I
:04:16. > :04:19.think what's interesting is the idea he would for minority government.
:04:20. > :04:23.Would you get confidence and look at other options that might well happen
:04:24. > :04:26.with the way the arithmetic is going or is he going to hold out and say
:04:27. > :04:30.the only way I will be Prime Minister is in a majority
:04:31. > :04:36.Conservative government? No, the implication of his remarks was I
:04:37. > :04:40.wouldn't form a coalition government unless my coalition partners would
:04:41. > :04:42.also agree to vote for a referendum. He's basically talking about is
:04:43. > :04:48.negotiating strategy in those coalition talks. It's a red line and
:04:49. > :04:51.a huge opportunity for the Lib Dems, because they know David Cameron
:04:52. > :04:57.absolutely has to do, for accidental reasons, as a person who survives as
:04:58. > :05:01.Tory leader, to ask for that referendum, so they can ask anything
:05:02. > :05:04.they want in return and if I was Nick Clegg, I would work out in the
:05:05. > :05:11.next year one absolute colossal negotiating demand for those
:05:12. > :05:15.coalition talks. For a party around 10% in the polls, they will do have
:05:16. > :05:24.the Prime Minister over a barrel on this one, assuming that coalition
:05:25. > :05:29.talks goes well. They could make Michael Gove Tbyte meeting. OK, we
:05:30. > :05:33.need to move on. So, the politicians are out and about on what used to be
:05:34. > :05:36.called the stump ahead of local and European elections in less than two
:05:37. > :05:39.weeks' time. But, without wanting to depress you on a damp Sunday
:05:40. > :05:42.morning, the party strategists are already hard at work on their
:05:43. > :05:45.campaign plans for the General Election next May. Yes, it's less
:05:46. > :05:48.than a year to go. They may have taken their time, but Labour's
:05:49. > :05:50.battleplan for 2015 is starting to take shape. As well as take
:05:51. > :05:54.promising to freeze your energy bills, and reintroduce the 50p rate
:05:55. > :05:59.of tax, Ed Miliband now says he wants to intervene in the housing
:06:00. > :06:02.market to keep rents down. There's even talk that the party leadership
:06:03. > :06:08.wants to bring more railway lines into public ownership. And Labour is
:06:09. > :06:11.gambling that its big push on the cost of living will see it through
:06:12. > :06:14.to the general election despite evidence that growth is firmly back.
:06:15. > :06:20.Labour's campaign chief Douglas Alexander hopes it all adds up to
:06:21. > :06:26.victory next May. But so far, the evidence is hitting home very thin.
:06:27. > :06:30.One survey today shows that 56% of people don't think Mr Miliband is up
:06:31. > :06:33.to the job of Prime Minister. As we head towards one of the least
:06:34. > :06:39.predictable general elections in 70 years, has Labour got a message to
:06:40. > :06:41.win seats up and down the country? And Labour's election co-ordinator
:06:42. > :06:49.and Shadow Foreign Secretary, Douglas Alexander, joins me now.
:06:50. > :06:52.Welcome to Sunday Politics. A lot of these policies announced polar
:06:53. > :06:57.pretty well. By popular with the country. When you add them together,
:06:58. > :07:02.it's a move to the left and what would be wrong with that? I think is
:07:03. > :07:08.your packet suggests, the contours in the coming campaign are becoming
:07:09. > :07:11.clear. Our judgement is the defining issue of the year in British
:07:12. > :07:14.politics will be the widening gap between the wealth of the country
:07:15. > :07:17.and the finances of ordinary families. We believe it will be a
:07:18. > :07:21.cost of living election and we have been setting out our thinking in
:07:22. > :07:24.relation to energy prices and rent, but you will hear more from Labour
:07:25. > :07:29.Party in the coming months because we're now less than one year away
:07:30. > :07:32.from a decisive moment. If the leftish think tank suggested any of
:07:33. > :07:38.his policies in that Tony Blair years, you would have opposed them.
:07:39. > :07:43.Let's be clear, when not going for an interest but seeking to secure a
:07:44. > :07:47.majority for the only way to do that is not simply to appeal to your
:07:48. > :07:52.base, but to the centre ground. I believe we got genuine opportunities
:07:53. > :07:56.in the next year. You have the Conservatives in a struggle with
:07:57. > :08:00.UKIP on the right of politics. The Lib Dems 9% of trying to find their
:08:01. > :08:03.base, and there's a genuine opportunity in the next year for
:08:04. > :08:07.Labour to dominate the centre ground of politics and secure the majority
:08:08. > :08:11.Labour government we are planning for in the coming year. I notice you
:08:12. > :08:22.didn't deny you wouldn't have opposed. You say you have got an
:08:23. > :08:27.message for aspirational voters in the South. This is what John Denham
:08:28. > :08:37.said. He thinks you're talking too much to your core vote.
:08:38. > :08:45.He is right to recognise we took a terrible beating in 2010. 29%. If
:08:46. > :08:51.you look at what we've done in the last week, for example, the
:08:52. > :08:53.signature policy on rent Ed Miliband announced to launch the campaign,
:08:54. > :08:58.there's now more than 9 million people in the country in the private
:08:59. > :09:02.rented sector, more than 1 million families. Many of them are in the
:09:03. > :09:04.south-east. They are seeing circumstances where, suddenly,
:09:05. > :09:09.landlord will increase the rent and they put the pressure involved in
:09:10. > :09:14.schooling, health care facing the families, so it is important both in
:09:15. > :09:17.terms of policy and in terms of politics that we speak to the whole
:09:18. > :09:21.country, not simply to one part of it falls up what is the average rise
:09:22. > :09:30.in event last year? I don't know. Can you tell me? 1%. 1% not in real
:09:31. > :09:36.terms. I'm not sure what the problem is. It will happen to wages in last
:09:37. > :09:42.year, we are facing circumstances where people will be worse off, up
:09:43. > :09:47.to ?1600 off worse and frankly, if our opponents want to argue that the
:09:48. > :09:51.economy has healed and they deserve a victory lap, good luck to them
:09:52. > :09:56.because actually, what we are hearing from the Buddhist public,
:09:57. > :10:00.not just in the north and south, is not the cost living crisis is
:10:01. > :10:02.continuing and it affects families. There was nothing aspirational about
:10:03. > :10:08.your party election broadcast for the European elections. It looked
:10:09. > :10:13.like crude class war to money people. That's a bit of it. Bedroom
:10:14. > :10:16.tax. Isn't it going to look bad that two thirds of those affected are
:10:17. > :10:23.disabled? Who cares? They can't fight back. Shall be lay-offs and
:10:24. > :10:37.NHS nurses? The National Health Service? Oh yes. Mr Cameron? Who
:10:38. > :10:40.said that? Me. My gosh. The man has shrunk. He's actually shrunk. What
:10:41. > :10:48.shall we do with him? Can we hunt him? Nothing about Europe, Labour
:10:49. > :10:53.policy. News that the Tories would result in negative campaigning and
:10:54. > :10:57.smear. You didn't tell you would be just as bad. Let's start the party
:10:58. > :11:03.broadcast. The one thing guaranteed to have most people reaching for the
:11:04. > :11:08.remote control these days are the words, there now follows a party but
:11:09. > :11:12.the broadcast. I make no apology in the factory to be innovative in how
:11:13. > :11:16.we presented. It's factual. It was a policy -based critic of this
:11:17. > :11:21.government. And the Lib Dems role within it. So you're claiming it's
:11:22. > :11:29.factual to betray the camera and cabinet is not even knowing what the
:11:30. > :11:33.NHS is, -- the Cameron Cabinet. They attack the disabled because they
:11:34. > :11:38.can't fight back. The Pinellas Tanner severely Prime Minister Sun
:11:39. > :11:44.and he was treated during a short life by the NHS. It's a fact many
:11:45. > :11:48.disabled people across the country including in my constituency have
:11:49. > :11:51.been directly affected by the bedroom tax. And ultimately, this
:11:52. > :11:56.Conservative led government, including the Lib Dems, will be held
:11:57. > :12:00.accountable by the politicians. You say that, the Prime Minister, who
:12:01. > :12:05.had a severely disabled son of. I you not ashamed about? I shadowed
:12:06. > :12:11.Iain Duncan Smith of five months also they don't have the excuses of
:12:12. > :12:14.seeing that saying nobody told them the consequences of the bedroom tax.
:12:15. > :12:19.They went into this with their eyes open. They knew about the hardship
:12:20. > :12:21.and difficulty. If they were one-bedroom properties available
:12:22. > :12:26.across the country for people to move into, their argument would be
:12:27. > :12:31.OK but they knew they were dealing with the most vulnerable people. Did
:12:32. > :12:37.you sign off that part of the broadcast? Of course I stand by the
:12:38. > :12:41.fact of it. I wish David Cameron and Iain Duncan Smith would apologise to
:12:42. > :12:44.the disabled people of the country and the poorest people for the
:12:45. > :12:51.effects of the bedroom tax. I hope we get that apology between now and
:12:52. > :12:56.election. As someone who thinks integrity is important in politics,
:12:57. > :12:59.not ashamed of this kind of thing? It's important we scrutinise the
:13:00. > :13:06.policies of this government as well as adding a positive agenda for
:13:07. > :13:11.change. You want that you won't promise this is the last time we'll
:13:12. > :13:13.see such a negative press campaign? I don't think it is negative or
:13:14. > :13:18.personal to scrutinise the government. So we'll get more of
:13:19. > :13:24.this? I'm less interested in the background of the cabinet than their
:13:25. > :13:28.views. You call the upper-class twits. It's for the British public
:13:29. > :13:32.to make a judgement in terms of the British... That's how you depicted
:13:33. > :13:39.them. We are held in accountable for the bedroom tax, the NHS, taxation,
:13:40. > :13:42.and our record they have to defend. One reason are so fearful in this
:13:43. > :13:47.election is actually because they know they have a poor record. Let's
:13:48. > :13:54.look at other part of the election campaign. This poster. Particularly
:13:55. > :14:01.digitally doing the rounds. On that shopping basket, can you tell us
:14:02. > :14:04.which items take the full 20% VAT? It's representative of household
:14:05. > :14:08.shopping, which includes items like cleaning products, and we know that
:14:09. > :14:24.food is not that trouble. People don't go to the supermarket and say
:14:25. > :14:28.this is -- vatable. So you are denying that ?450 extra is being
:14:29. > :14:36.paid? Yes, where'd you get that figure? For an average family to pay
:14:37. > :14:44.?450 a year extra VAT, they would have to spend ?21,600 a year on
:14:45. > :14:48.vatable products at 20%. The average take-home pay is only 21,009. They
:14:49. > :14:53.have got to spend on all sorts of things which are zero VAT. So in
:14:54. > :15:00.addition to the items, has a range of products people face in terms of
:15:01. > :15:07.VAT. How could an average family of ?21,000 a year spent 21,006 and the
:15:08. > :15:15.pound a year on 20% vatable items? It's not an annual figure, is it? So
:15:16. > :15:20.what is it then? If it's an annual, what is it? The increased VAT in
:15:21. > :15:26.this parliament is calculated over the course of a Parliament. For the
:15:27. > :15:32.whole of the Parliament? And you're illustrated this with a shopping
:15:33. > :15:37.basket which almost has no VAT on it at all? People will be buying a
:15:38. > :15:42.weekly shop in the course of this Parliament every week. Did you sign
:15:43. > :15:46.off on this as well? Of course. It didn't dawn on you you're putting
:15:47. > :15:51.things on it which have no VAT? If you want to argue some people go to
:15:52. > :16:00.the shops and say these are vatable or not, I disagree. Even your rent
:16:01. > :16:03.cap announcement went wrong. You're working on the rent rises and it
:16:04. > :16:13.turns out it wasn't. It was a post your policy. It is the exception
:16:14. > :16:17.rather than the rule to have the position we have at the moment. In
:16:18. > :16:21.Northern Ireland we have seen the continued rise in terms of the
:16:22. > :16:27.rented sector but there is a widespread recognition that for
:16:28. > :16:33.those people in the rented sector, change is necessary. Are you
:16:34. > :16:44.coordinating this campaign? It seems accident prone. This is a party that
:16:45. > :16:47.has set the agenda more effectively than a Conservative party that said
:16:48. > :16:56.when David Cameron was elected he wasn't going to bang on about
:16:57. > :17:02.Europe. The day after the election we expect the Conservative party to
:17:03. > :17:06.be engulfed in crisis. I'm proud of what we talk about and I think there
:17:07. > :17:11.is a clear contrast about a party talking about issues people care
:17:12. > :17:15.about, and a Conservative party talking about exclusively a
:17:16. > :17:23.referendum. Are you in charge of the campaign? I am coordinating the
:17:24. > :17:29.campaign is, yes. The expensive election guru you have hired, has he
:17:30. > :17:34.been involved in any of this? We have started our discussions with
:17:35. > :17:38.him. You are going to have to brief him about British politics because
:17:39. > :17:45.he doesn't know anything about it. I make no apology for hiring him. He
:17:46. > :17:50.has a lot of experience in winning tight elections and that is what we
:17:51. > :17:56.are expecting. If you are expecting us to say, they have passed and we
:17:57. > :18:03.have to hold them accountable, then I am sorry but we have a campaign
:18:04. > :18:12.that holds the Government and the Conservatives to account for what I
:18:13. > :18:17.think is a very hopeless record in government. Thank you.
:18:18. > :18:20.He leads a party with zero MPs but his media presence is huge. He's had
:18:21. > :18:23.an expenses scandal, but the public didn't seem to mind. He's got a
:18:24. > :18:26.privileged background but he's seen as an anti-establishment champion.
:18:27. > :18:30.Nothing seems to stick to him, not even eggs. I speak of course of
:18:31. > :18:33.Nigel Farage. We'll talk to him in a moment, but first Giles has been out
:18:34. > :18:35.on the campaign trail ahead of elections that could make or break
:18:36. > :18:39.the UKIP leader. Nigel Farage likes a stage, and at
:18:40. > :18:43.this stage of the Euro and local election campaign he is, like his
:18:44. > :18:47.party, in buoyant mood. They feel they are on the verge of what they
:18:48. > :18:52.see as causing an earthquake in British politics. Today Nigel is
:18:53. > :19:02.filling thousands seat venues and bigger. Not that there's much sign
:19:03. > :19:05.of that at this press launch. But it's a threat with serious money
:19:06. > :19:07.behind it, that they believe the media and the political elite just
:19:08. > :19:10.haven't realised yet, much less learned how to counter it. Not that
:19:11. > :19:13.it's all been plain sailing. Offensive comments from some
:19:14. > :19:16.candidates has not only seen UKIP labelled as racist, but necessitated
:19:17. > :19:24.a rally by the party to visibly and verbally challenge that. The
:19:25. > :19:26.offensive idiotic statements made by this handful of people have been
:19:27. > :19:31.lifted up and presented to the great British public as if they represent
:19:32. > :19:34.the view of this party, which they do not. They never have and they
:19:35. > :19:50.never will. APPLAUSE I don't care what you call us, but
:19:51. > :20:01.from this moment on, please do not call must trust a racist party. We
:20:02. > :20:04.are not a racist party. The need to say that is not just
:20:05. > :20:07.about the European and local elections even at that campaign
:20:08. > :20:09.launch it's clear UKIP's leader has set his sights firmly on the
:20:10. > :20:12.ultimate prize. I come from the south of England and I would not
:20:13. > :20:17.want to be seen as an opportunist heading to the north, north Norfolk
:20:18. > :20:23.or whatever it will be. I will make my mind up and stand in the general
:20:24. > :20:28.election for somewhere in Kent, East Sussex, Hampshire, somewhere in my
:20:29. > :20:37.home patch. Back at UKIP HQ they are still drilling down how the last
:20:38. > :20:40.fortnight of campaigning should go. They aren't taking any chances, and
:20:41. > :20:43.one imagines having offices above those of Max Clifford is a reminder
:20:44. > :20:46.how fragile built reputations can be of the bubble bursting. They want
:20:47. > :20:49.their reputation to be built on votes and they know anything but
:20:50. > :20:57.significant success on May 22nd and some seats in Westminster in 2015
:20:58. > :21:00.isn't going to be good enough. And after that, having sold yourselves
:21:01. > :21:03.as the honest outsiders, that stance is harder to maintain once your
:21:04. > :21:10.people are on the inside. And subtle changes from the past are already
:21:11. > :21:12.noticeable. The ordinary man of the people stance is still working.
:21:13. > :21:19.Characteristically outside a pub, Nigel Farage is glad handed by a
:21:20. > :21:24.customer. Two weeks to go, let's cause an upset. Wouldn't that be
:21:25. > :21:27.great? The only sign that such an interaction is different now is the
:21:28. > :21:39.ever presence of bodyguards who shadow his every move. Over lunch
:21:40. > :21:42.ahead of Question Time, a radio appearance, and then off to
:21:43. > :21:46.Scotland, I ask him if some of those minded to vote UKIP who see him as a
:21:47. > :21:49.man they'd be comfortable having a drink with are the sort of people
:21:50. > :21:51.he'd be entirely comfortable sitting down with. Every political party
:21:52. > :21:54.attracts support from across the spectrum and there will be some
:21:55. > :22:02.magnificent people who vote for us and some ne'er-do-wells. The one
:22:03. > :22:08.common thing about UKIP voters is that they are often not very
:22:09. > :22:11.political. And it's that people's army that if UKIP can get to a
:22:12. > :22:17.polling booth might just create that earthquake they want.
:22:18. > :22:21.Nigel Farage joins me now. When you decided not to stand at the new work
:22:22. > :22:28.by election coming said if you lost it that the bubble would have
:22:29. > :22:47.burst. What did you mean by that? I was asked at seven 20p -- at 7:21pm
:22:48. > :22:53.if I would stand, I have decided by the next morning that I would not. I
:22:54. > :22:57.didn't know he was going to resign. You claim only a handful of UKIP
:22:58. > :23:04.candidates have ever said things that are either stupid or offensive,
:23:05. > :23:10.I'm right on that, yes? 0.1%, I'd rather it was non-. But why have you
:23:11. > :23:14.chosen a candidate to fight this by-election that has said many
:23:15. > :23:20.things most people would regard as stupid or offensive? Roger is
:23:21. > :23:26.fighting this for us, someone of 70 years of age who grew up with a
:23:27. > :23:31.strong Christian Bible background, in an age when homosexuality was
:23:32. > :23:34.imprisonable. He had a certain set of views which he maintained for
:23:35. > :23:41.many years which he now says he accepts the world has moved on and
:23:42. > :23:46.he is relaxed about it. The comments about homosexuality are not from the
:23:47. > :23:52.dark ages, they are from two or three years ago. From when he was a
:23:53. > :23:56.Conservative, yes, so will you be asking David Cameron that question?
:23:57. > :24:04.I have never seen a single comment from Roger that would be deemed to
:24:05. > :24:09.be offensive. Do you regard his comments on homosexuality as
:24:10. > :24:14.offensive? When he grew up, homosexuality was illegal in this
:24:15. > :24:25.country. But this was in 2012 but he said that. Most people have his age
:24:26. > :24:32.still feel uncomfortable about it -- of his age. In 2012 he said, if two
:24:33. > :24:38.men can be married, why not three, why not a commune. Many people in
:24:39. > :24:42.this country are disconcerted by the change in the meaning of marriage
:24:43. > :24:47.and in a tolerant society we understand that some people have
:24:48. > :24:52.different views. But he has changed his views now in only two years? He
:24:53. > :25:03.says he is more relaxed about it. Was he your candidate? He is a
:25:04. > :25:07.first-class campaigner who has had 30 years in industry, he served in
:25:08. > :25:12.the European Parliament, he is a good candidate. This morning's
:25:13. > :25:17.papers suggest you are about to select Victoria Ayling for Grimsby,
:25:18. > :25:22.but she is on camera saying that, of immigrants, I just want to send a
:25:23. > :25:26.lot back. This is all very interesting, and we can talk about
:25:27. > :25:30.it, all we could talk about the fact that in 12 days we have a European
:25:31. > :25:37.election and every voter across the UK can vote on it and it is really
:25:38. > :25:45.interesting. Are you happy to pick a candidate that says of immigrants, I
:25:46. > :25:50.just want to send a lot back? I have seen the tape, it is a complete
:25:51. > :25:58.misquote and she says it in the context of illegal immigrants. I
:25:59. > :26:01.have seen the full quote and in the context it is not about illegal
:26:02. > :26:06.immigrants. Let's come onto the European campaign, you have used a
:26:07. > :26:11.company that employs Eastern European is to deliver leaflets in
:26:12. > :26:17.London and the Home Counties. Have we? I'm told that in Croydon one
:26:18. > :26:23.branch might have done that. Have you found some indigenous Brits to
:26:24. > :26:27.deliver leaflets in Europe? We have thousands joining the party every
:26:28. > :26:30.month and they are not all indigenous because what is
:26:31. > :26:46.interesting is that in today's opinion polls, UKIP is above the Lib
:26:47. > :26:56.Dems and the Conservatives amongst the indigenous voting.
:26:57. > :27:03.We have not agreed a manifesto for the general election, we will do
:27:04. > :27:09.over the course of the summer. This is in your local election. We are
:27:10. > :27:13.having local elections in some part of the country but we are fighting a
:27:14. > :27:18.European election. It is impossible with the British media to have an
:27:19. > :27:24.intelligent debate on the European question. But as I say, we are also
:27:25. > :27:31.fighting the local elections too. You have promised these tax cuts,
:27:32. > :27:35.how much will they cost? I have met -- read the local election manifesto
:27:36. > :27:40.and it doesn't make those promises. We do talk about local services, we
:27:41. > :27:48.do talk about the need to keep council tax down but we don't talk
:27:49. > :27:52.about income tax. Absolutely not. In local election campaigning you say
:27:53. > :27:58.you would restore cuts to policing, double prison places, restore cuts
:27:59. > :28:05.to front line NHS, spend more on roads, how much would that cost? You
:28:06. > :28:10.are obviously reading different documents to me. We are voting for
:28:11. > :28:17.local councillors in district councils who have got little local
:28:18. > :28:23.budgets. Every party in a manifesto puts his aspirations in it. Have you
:28:24. > :28:29.read it? Of course I have, cover to cover, which is why I'm saying you
:28:30. > :28:36.are misquoting it. By the way, on the bubble bursting, you told that
:28:37. > :28:40.to Norman Smith of the BBC. 75% of British laws are now made in the
:28:41. > :28:46.European Union. Now AstraZeneca is potentially going to be taken over
:28:47. > :28:51.by Pfizer. The BBC is refusing to show the public that that decision
:28:52. > :28:55.cannot be taken here but by an elected European commissioner, and
:28:56. > :29:09.we sit and argue about what is in or not in the local election manifesto.
:29:10. > :29:12.It is my job, but let me come on to AstraZeneca. Is it your view that a
:29:13. > :29:24.British government should stop the takeover of AstraZeneca? It cannot.
:29:25. > :29:28.Can we please get this clear. I sat next to Chuka Umunna the other day
:29:29. > :29:34.at question time and he said what could and couldn't be done. He said
:29:35. > :29:38.I am being studiously neutral, and the reason is we don't have this
:29:39. > :29:44.power. That is what the European elections is about. Should France
:29:45. > :30:02.have the takeover of the food company Danan? We seem to do things
:30:03. > :30:06.to the Nth degree and nobody else does, perhaps because we have this
:30:07. > :30:15.culture and we obey it. In your view, you don't think Pfizer should
:30:16. > :30:19.be able to take over AstraZeneca? There is some good science within
:30:20. > :30:26.AstraZeneca which is in danger of being asset stripped and lost.
:30:27. > :30:31.Because it is run by a Swede and a Frenchman and most of its employees
:30:32. > :30:36.are overseas. I understand that but there are still some good science
:30:37. > :30:39.being produced here. What did you think of the Prime Minister saying
:30:40. > :30:45.he would not form a government after the election unless he was able to
:30:46. > :30:52.have a referendum in 2017? I sat here talking to you and you said to
:30:53. > :30:56.me that David Cameron had given a cast-iron guarantee that if David
:30:57. > :31:00.Cameron becomes Prime Minister he will have a referendum on the Lisbon
:31:01. > :31:05.Treaty, but he didn't deliver on that. He knows that people struggle
:31:06. > :31:11.to believe the renegotiation is worth a row of beans. He is saying
:31:12. > :31:15.he will not form a government unless he can go forward with the
:31:16. > :31:18.referendum. I know he is desperately trying to pretend to be Eurosceptic
:31:19. > :31:23.whilst at the same time saying he will campaign for Britain to remain
:31:24. > :31:27.in. In a sense, that is what this election is about. We have three
:31:28. > :31:30.traditional parties, all of whom passionately believe in the
:31:31. > :31:34.continued membership of the European Union and we have UKIP saying we
:31:35. > :31:40.want trade and cooperation but there is a bigger and better world out
:31:41. > :31:51.there. You are now travelling with I think four bodyguards, has this
:31:52. > :31:55.affected you and your family life? I can't stand it. I've always wondered
:31:56. > :31:59.about the place and on my own thing. Sadly we have a couple of
:32:00. > :32:01.organisations out there headed up by senior Labour Party figures who
:32:02. > :32:07.purport to be against fascism and extremism, who received funding from
:32:08. > :32:11.the Department of communities, from the trade unions, who have acted in
:32:12. > :32:16.a violent wait more than once. You are saying the Labour Party is
:32:17. > :32:20.behind the threats? No, I said a taxpayer funded, trade union funded
:32:21. > :32:23.and headed by senior Labour Party figures, and I'm happy for them to
:32:24. > :32:27.come to my meetings and have an itinerant with me, but it's not so
:32:28. > :32:33.much fun when there are banging you over the head. I is still keen to be
:32:34. > :32:38.an MP? Yes, what UKIP will then do is target before the general
:32:39. > :32:43.election next year for the one life be easier if you just went to the
:32:44. > :32:47.Lords? That's the last thing I want to do. There's an awful lot to do.
:32:48. > :32:51.Most of all, I will not rest until we are free from political union and
:32:52. > :32:54.government from Brussels. Nigel Farage, thank you for being with us.
:32:55. > :32:57.It's just gone 11.30am. You're watching the Sunday Politics. We say
:32:58. > :33:00.goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now for Sunday Politics
:33:01. > :33:03.Scotland. Coming up here in 20 minutes, our panel talks about the
:33:04. > :33:10.big stories of the week. First though,
:33:11. > :33:22.Hello once again from the Midlands. I'm Patrick Burns. More now on the
:33:23. > :33:25.great European confrontation everyone's talking about. It's got
:33:26. > :33:29.passion, excitement and a dramatic outcome. No, not that one. Although
:33:30. > :33:34.we do have at least one beard on display. Today we are joined by four
:33:35. > :33:41.of the candidates hoping to be among the seven new MEPs elected when we
:33:42. > :33:44.go to the polls a week on Thursday. Dan Dalton for the Conservatives.
:33:45. > :33:48.Sion Simon for Labour is our one bearded man. Jonathan Webber for the
:33:49. > :33:59.Liberal Democrats. And James Carver for UKIP. A warm welcome to you all.
:34:00. > :34:02.Once every five years comes our biggest collective experience of
:34:03. > :34:05.democracy on a truly epic scale. One giant constituency of nearly six
:34:06. > :34:08.million people, from the Cotswolds to the Staffordshire Moorlands, the
:34:09. > :34:11.West Midlands is about to decide who'll represent us in the next
:34:12. > :34:18.European Parliament. For viewers in Gloucestershire there's a similar
:34:19. > :34:22.contest in South West England. Then there were six. Now there are
:34:23. > :34:26.seven. The Lisbon Treaty has awarded us one more West Midlands MEP. And
:34:27. > :34:31.the battle for that seventh seat could be crucial. For UKIP to have
:34:32. > :34:35.three MEPs here, Bill Etheridge, number three on their party list,
:34:36. > :34:38.must come seventh overall. But the Green Party's Deputy Leader, the
:34:39. > :34:42.Dudley councillor Will Duckworth reckons a swing of under four
:34:43. > :34:46.percent would put him in. Or could seventh go to one of three MEPs in
:34:47. > :34:49.the outgoing Parliament? Phil Bennion, battling to help the
:34:50. > :34:52.Liberal Democrats avoid the dreaded 'whitewash', and the two ex`UKIP
:34:53. > :34:59.MEPs Mike Nattrass and Nikki Sinclaire, who now lead new anti`EU
:35:00. > :35:03.parties. It's a dizzying assortment of ten parties for the voter to sort
:35:04. > :35:07.out, with a clear divide emerging between those who broadly want to
:35:08. > :35:10.keep us in the EU, maybe, and the rest who have a variety of reasons
:35:11. > :35:21.for trying to get themselves in to Europe to get us out. One of the
:35:22. > :35:27.parties is different from the others in that it is more left on the
:35:28. > :35:33.political spectrum. In other cases it is to do with personalities.
:35:34. > :35:38.Tensions that have arisen between UKIP NEP 's. While polling is a week
:35:39. > :35:42.on Thursday, we'll have to wait until a fortnight tonight for the
:35:43. > :35:51.results. They can't be declared until the polls have closed right
:35:52. > :35:55.across the rest of the EU. `` MEPs. And here is that dizzying assortment
:35:56. > :36:00.of names and parties as shown on the ballot paper. You can also look them
:36:01. > :36:02.up on the BBC News Politics website. Our guests today represent the four
:36:03. > :36:11.biggest parties contesting these elections, and this is the first of
:36:12. > :36:21.our two live debates. For the Conservatives, it is a case
:36:22. > :36:25.of having three MEPs going out. With the polls putting your party in
:36:26. > :36:32.third place, you are not going to get in. We have still got ten days
:36:33. > :36:37.until the election. We are confident we have a good message. We believe
:36:38. > :36:42.the message is popular, the British people buy into what we are saying.
:36:43. > :36:49.There is still ten days to go, we are hopeful that we will do better
:36:50. > :36:55.than the polls suggest. Sion, I do not want to give the impression that
:36:56. > :36:58.I am obsessing about the polls. Second place in the polls in a
:36:59. > :37:03.region like this, so full of marginals given everything that has
:37:04. > :37:09.happened in this country. Labour should be doing better than that.
:37:10. > :37:16.Labour is clearly campaigning to be first in the selection. The polls
:37:17. > :37:22.suggest you are not going to be. The polls, say one thing one week and at
:37:23. > :37:31.another thing another. What is interesting is if you look at the
:37:32. > :37:38.national polls, you see that UKIP is polled on 13% rather than 30. Why is
:37:39. > :37:44.that? People treat this election as Nigel Farage wants them to treat it,
:37:45. > :37:50.a referendum on the EU. This is not. This affects people and their lives
:37:51. > :37:57.in the West Midlands. You told us why being in the EU was very much in
:37:58. > :38:02.the Midlands interest, you are the party. Just look at the way the tide
:38:03. > :38:08.is flowing. You have six of the 11 parties campaigning to pull Britain
:38:09. > :38:15.out. That may be the case. I think you will find now that increasingly
:38:16. > :38:21.the polls suggesting we need to concentrate on certain areas. This
:38:22. > :38:28.is a region which depends on Europe for jobs, prosperity and economics.
:38:29. > :38:32.Why is there talk about your party being whitewashed in these
:38:33. > :38:41.elections? We are working very hard to make sure this is not the case.
:38:42. > :38:46.We are putting forward a case now. It is not something you can change
:38:47. > :38:51.overnight. The point that was made in my report earlier on is that the
:38:52. > :38:57.danger from your point of view, the anti`EU vote can be split with so
:38:58. > :39:00.many of these anti`European parties contesting the part of the electoral
:39:01. > :39:07.marketplace that you hold. Consistent opinion polls show, Sion
:39:08. > :39:20.said the battle for first place is between Labour and UKIP. It is clear
:39:21. > :39:31.that UKIP is the main party that oppose it `` Britain's membership of
:39:32. > :39:43.the EU. You did pretty well last night `` time. You are back to
:39:44. > :39:46.around 5.4% in the West Midlands. You perform in European elections
:39:47. > :39:52.and then it is back to politics as normal. Personally I could agree
:39:53. > :39:57.with you on that. But it is a different political climate in
:39:58. > :40:08.Europe `` in Britain just now. We are fighting 74% of local election
:40:09. > :40:15.seats in this election. We think 2015 and the election then, will be
:40:16. > :40:23.very interesting. We hear that voting for you is a protest vote.
:40:24. > :40:28.You cannot do that because you are not one of the above. We have picked
:40:29. > :40:39.up the protest vote in the past. The UKIP support as you have described
:40:40. > :40:44.is a European centric element. I would be as apprised of it was more
:40:45. > :40:51.than skin deep. UKIP say they are doing damage to you, Sion. Is not
:40:52. > :40:58.just the Liberal Democrats and Tories. I think the point I am
:40:59. > :41:06.making is that I think you will see a split on ballot papers because
:41:07. > :41:10.people will vote Labour in the local elections because they want Labour.
:41:11. > :41:15.They will vote UKIP in the European elections as a protest against so
:41:16. > :41:19.many things. My point is that that is an important mistake people not
:41:20. > :41:26.to make. This is not a referendum on the EU, they should vote according
:41:27. > :41:40.to the kind of people that they want to represent them. What about
:41:41. > :41:47.further Tories? I do not believe we're going come third. I don't want
:41:48. > :41:52.to upset with opinion polls, but the arithmetic looks clear enough. We
:41:53. > :41:56.will now soon enough what the actual result is. The European elections
:41:57. > :42:00.when you have been in government for four years and you have had to take
:42:01. > :42:06.difficult decisions on the economy to get it back onto, yes, often it
:42:07. > :42:10.is a protest against the government. UKIP have done well in
:42:11. > :42:18.the last European elections. What have they achieved? Will there be
:42:19. > :42:25.ructions in the Tory party if you don't do well? I think in this case,
:42:26. > :42:36.we know this is a difficult election. The party has bought into
:42:37. > :42:44.the central message that we have, reform, referendum and... The issues
:42:45. > :42:48.around Europe are almost technical, nuanced and complicated. UKIP and
:42:49. > :42:56.many of the conversations around this issue are oversimplified. Dan
:42:57. > :43:05.Mitre said his party has bought into it, but the British people have not.
:43:06. > :43:10.`` might have said. Our position is directly opposite of theirs. It is
:43:11. > :43:14.clear, we have said that we have reached a stage where we cannot
:43:15. > :43:20.renegotiate. If we listen to what some of the EU leaders have said,
:43:21. > :43:26.renegotiation is not an option. David Cameron has said he would not
:43:27. > :43:33.sign up to Prime Minister to a government that did not sign up to a
:43:34. > :43:37.referendum. The Liberal Democrats are the party for Europe. I joined
:43:38. > :43:40.the party because of position on Europe. There is no question that
:43:41. > :43:52.should there be material changes in the future then we would consider
:43:53. > :43:56.this. Thank you very much indeed. The British National Party's
:43:57. > :44:02.cupboard is bare here in our part of the country: no local councillors,
:44:03. > :44:06.and no MEPs in the outgoing Parliament. That's even though they
:44:07. > :44:09.won nearly nine per cent of the vote here last time, higher than in the
:44:10. > :44:12.North West where Nick Griffin was elected. Our BBC Stoke Political
:44:13. > :44:18.Reporter Phil McCann has been charting their fortunes since then.
:44:19. > :44:22.Nick Griffin, ladies and gentlemen. The BNP was riding high in 2009. In
:44:23. > :44:24.2010 it launched its general election manifesto in
:44:25. > :44:28.Stoke`on`Trent, which it used to call the jewel in its crown, because
:44:29. > :44:31.nine of its 16 Midlands councillors where in the city. They won support
:44:32. > :44:35.partly by being visible in communities here, by running bingo
:44:36. > :44:38.clubs. So we came back here to see if views have changed now the BNP
:44:39. > :44:43.have gone. Well, if they want to send the lot back, then yes, I am
:44:44. > :44:47.with them. Don't you think we have got enough in this country? We can't
:44:48. > :44:49.hardly look after our own, can we? Now the British National Party has
:44:50. > :44:52.no councillors here in Stoke`on`Trent, or anywhere in the
:44:53. > :44:56.Midlands. Nationwide, it only has two. One of its MEPs has left the
:44:57. > :45:00.party and its membership has halved. But over the last few years, things
:45:01. > :45:03.have been going wrong for the BNP. It has had a cash crisis after
:45:04. > :45:06.losing a legal challenge through its all`white membership policy and it
:45:07. > :45:08.has been beset by internal disagreements, including from their
:45:09. > :45:13.former leader in Stoke`on`Trent who left saying some party members were
:45:14. > :45:16.Holocaust deniers. And to make things harder for the party, its
:45:17. > :45:19.number one candidate in the region, has a suspended prison sentence for
:45:20. > :45:27.racially aggrevated harassment after comments he made about black people
:45:28. > :45:31.after the 2011 riots. But they are still out pounding the streets
:45:32. > :45:35.looking for votes. Our view, our party's view on mass immigration to
:45:36. > :45:38.Britian is that it is an illegal process. It is illegal. It has never
:45:39. > :45:42.been sanctioned by the British people and it is a project of social
:45:43. > :45:44.engineering and social change on a national level, involving vast
:45:45. > :45:49.number of foreigners. That should have been taken to the people. It is
:45:50. > :45:53.a message from an extremist party but a message that has now become
:45:54. > :46:00.more mainstream, while the BNP have been left on the margins.
:46:01. > :46:03.Phil McCann. And next week we'll be hearing from our two former UKIP
:46:04. > :46:05.MEPs in the outgoing Parliament, Mike Nattrass and Nikki Sinclaire,
:46:06. > :46:21.who're now heading new anti`EU parties. Jim, UKIP make some play
:46:22. > :46:28.that says UKIP bands ex`BNP people from standing for you. We have had a
:46:29. > :46:34.huge media campaign against us. It seems to me completely unfair that
:46:35. > :46:38.the media and our political opponents say that if you discuss
:46:39. > :46:42.this issue of open`door immigration which only can be challenged from a
:46:43. > :46:53.position outside the European union, is you are racist. A quick
:46:54. > :47:02.reflection from others of you. I am delighted. I could it `` not put it
:47:03. > :47:06.more simply than that. It is good that we have a discussion on
:47:07. > :47:10.immigration on this country more openly and that people feel more lax
:47:11. > :47:16.about. I think it is better if we are going to have a single issue
:47:17. > :47:21.emigration party, it is better for it to be a party like UKIP which
:47:22. > :47:26.doesn't have that overtone of militarism and racism and nastier
:47:27. > :47:32.people like the BNP. `` immigration. It shows how important it is to get
:47:33. > :47:37.out and vote for the European election. It is important that we
:47:38. > :47:43.get people to vote, whoever they are voting for. Now our regular round`up
:47:44. > :47:46.of the political week in the Midlands in 60 seconds.
:47:47. > :47:48.It's a campaign special again this week, brought to us by BBC WM's
:47:49. > :47:53.Lunchtime presenter, Caroline Martin.
:47:54. > :47:56.Former Coventry Labour MP Dave Nellist is the lead candidate for
:47:57. > :48:03.the no to EU party in the West Midlands. They have a left wing take
:48:04. > :48:06.on Euroscepticism. Their next target, according to the Financial
:48:07. > :48:09.Times, is the ?450 billion public sector of health and education
:48:10. > :48:16.across Europe, that they want to open up to competition to private
:48:17. > :48:20.companies. We are dead against that. The Green party was in Solihull for
:48:21. > :48:23.the national launch of its local election campaign. Leader, Natalie
:48:24. > :48:26.Bennett said she believes they can make inroads in the West Midlands.
:48:27. > :48:29.Elsewhere in Solihull, at the local farmers' market there was confusion
:48:30. > :48:35.over what individual parties stand for in Europe and who some of the
:48:36. > :48:42.candidates are. What about this one? Do you recognise that man? Did he
:48:43. > :48:47.not have a thing on television? Jerry Springer? Jerry Springer,
:48:48. > :48:50.that's right. You can see how it might happen, by the way. Mike
:48:51. > :49:00.Nattrass is the one without the specs in case you were wondering.
:49:01. > :49:08.We are having a laugh, Sion. It makes a serious point how
:49:09. > :49:15.low`profile the European Parliament is. How do you combat this
:49:16. > :49:19.perception that it is a repository for retreads and reject
:49:20. > :49:25.politicians? It is not surprisingly people have not heard of their MEP.
:49:26. > :49:32.We have nearly 6 million people in our region. The only way people will
:49:33. > :49:34.have heard of their MEP is if the activities of the European
:49:35. > :49:46.Parliament were regularly reported in the media. We are constantly on
:49:47. > :49:53.the lookout. I am not having a go it you, Patrick. I am saying that the
:49:54. > :49:58.entire British media does not cover very important work that goes on day
:49:59. > :50:05.after day, week after week in Europe at all. So how will people ever hear
:50:06. > :50:11.of their MEPs? There is a real point that there is something uninspiring
:50:12. > :50:18.about the lack of linkage, who represents our region in a
:50:19. > :50:24.Parliament of this scale? It is a great shame that over the years we
:50:25. > :50:30.have not had the attention and virginity needed. `` opportunity.
:50:31. > :50:36.The huge amount that is done through Europe, it is not fed through to us
:50:37. > :50:41.all the time. If there was more public awareness, there would be
:50:42. > :50:47.more dialogue. What would you do, Jim, to build public awareness? Your
:50:48. > :50:52.party has been accused of not being the most active in terms of the
:50:53. > :50:56.business that you attend? It is the same question with regard to all
:50:57. > :51:06.parties. Some other MEPs are ready high performing in the parliament,
:51:07. > :51:08.some are not. What we want to do is seek our withdrawal from the
:51:09. > :51:19.European Union, let's make no secret about it. If I do find myself
:51:20. > :51:26.elected, 92% of the population of this country cannot name their MEP.
:51:27. > :51:29.If I am elected, I will be elected to a chamber as a parliamentarian,
:51:30. > :51:37.the only Parliament in Western Europe which will not bail to
:51:38. > :51:41.instigate legislation. It looks ironic that you are trying to get
:51:42. > :51:46.yourself into the European Parliament and yet the grandson well
:51:47. > :51:52.increasingly `` ground swell, is all about and in out referendum with the
:51:53. > :51:59.assumption that it is a party that is heading out. The key part of
:52:00. > :52:06.policy is we want to renegotiate our relationship with Europe. We want to
:52:07. > :52:11.bring powers back. David Cameron has made it clear the areas we want to
:52:12. > :52:16.renegotiate. That is the essence of policy. After that we should put
:52:17. > :52:20.that to the British people to decide. That is not a party position
:52:21. > :52:30.of being in or out, that is about letting the people decide. At salute
:52:31. > :52:36.the fascinating and we could go on. Next week we will do something very
:52:37. > :52:39.much like this again. My thanks to Dan, Sion, Jonathan and
:52:40. > :52:43.Jim. And we'll be re`dressing our gender`balance next week, when we'll
:52:44. > :52:46.Conservatives, Neena Gill for Labour Conservatives, Neena Gill for Labour
:52:47. > :52:49.and Jill Seymour for UKIP, with the Liberal Democrat MEP Phil Bennion,
:52:50. > :52:53.the only other man among us. And with less than a year to go to the
:52:54. > :52:56.General Election, we'll examine how this month's local elections could
:52:57. > :52:59.provide pointers in our key marginals, including a report from
:53:00. > :53:01.Tamworth which is a prime Labour target. This though is where we
:53:02. > :53:04.rejoin Andrew Neil. the website now. Now it is back to
:53:05. > :53:23.you, Andrew. Welcome back, let's go straight to
:53:24. > :53:28.our panel. What did you make of Mr Alexander's defence of the Labour
:53:29. > :53:30.party election broadcast? It is difficult for them because they
:53:31. > :53:35.started by saying they were not going to do negative campaigning and
:53:36. > :53:42.they have thrown that away for an advert which is funny but crude in
:53:43. > :53:50.the class war sense. He didn't look thrilled to be defending it. There
:53:51. > :53:53.is a page in Tony Blair's memoirs talking about negative campaigning,
:53:54. > :53:59.and he says that anything too extreme turns off the average voter
:54:00. > :54:10.so his line of attack on Hague was funny jokes but... I think this
:54:11. > :54:17.failed the Blair test, it was too vicious. If your strategy is to
:54:18. > :54:21.shore up your car vote, that advert was genius. If your strategy is to
:54:22. > :54:27.reach out to a broader number of voters, Middle Britain, then that
:54:28. > :54:31.advert was a complete disaster. It looks like there is a lot of
:54:32. > :54:42.negativity and smears all round in the next year. That definitely looks
:54:43. > :55:01.the way we are going. They will be essentially trying to re-run by --
:55:02. > :55:06.the American election. I am slightly puzzled why we cannot have our own
:55:07. > :55:12.election gurus who live here and understand the country. I should
:55:13. > :55:17.point out that the ?450 extra VAT that was claimed in that Labour
:55:18. > :55:23.poster, both Ed Balls and the Labour Treasury team have said that is ?450
:55:24. > :55:29.per year. Nonsense the VAT rise, one year. I should also point out that
:55:30. > :55:37.Nigel Farage said to Norman Smith, the BBC is always reliable Norman
:55:38. > :55:41.Smith that if you run in Newark and lost the bubble would burst. I
:55:42. > :55:45.should also point out that although a number of the tax rises I
:55:46. > :55:50.mentioned on council tax, minimum wage tax and some other things that
:55:51. > :55:56.UKIP wants to cuts, a couple of these are in the local manifesto but
:55:57. > :56:04.several are not. They are on the UKIP website, which is still current
:56:05. > :56:09.and dated 2014. We like to make sure we are absolutely right. Let's talk
:56:10. > :56:13.about Nick Clegg and Michael Gove and the latest spat. Let me show you
:56:14. > :56:22.this headline in the Observer this morning. From both the Independent,
:56:23. > :56:33.he called him a zealot, lunatic is of -- another word. Do we take this
:56:34. > :56:39.seriously? It hinges on this question of what counts as an area
:56:40. > :56:42.of need in education. The Lib Dems say an area of need is one where
:56:43. > :56:47.there are not enough school places to meet local demand. He says it can
:56:48. > :56:51.also be a place where there are surplus places but that is for a
:56:52. > :57:04.reason. Local places don't trust those schools to do a good job for
:57:05. > :57:09.their kids. It surprises me because there isn't a yawning distance
:57:10. > :57:14.between David Laws and Michael Gove. David Laws has found himself between
:57:15. > :57:18.a rock and a hard place because I asked -- as I understand it most Lib
:57:19. > :57:22.Dems don't like the free schools but Mr laws was quite sympathetic to it
:57:23. > :57:29.and he is now having to this respect it. When they asked people who are
:57:30. > :57:35.the most hated politicians in a poll were this week, Michael Gove is off
:57:36. > :57:48.the charts, far above David Cameron or George Osborne. This is
:57:49. > :57:52.tit-for-tat war. The Liberal Democrats believe Michael Gove had a
:57:53. > :57:56.hand in leaking the document that showed Nick Clegg was opposing the
:57:57. > :58:00.tougher Chris Grayling position on knife crime. They are saying there
:58:01. > :58:05.were Cabinet ministers who never usually attend the sub Cabinet
:58:06. > :58:09.meeting, they turned up and the document is leaked so what we are
:58:10. > :58:15.getting is tit for tat on that. It is inevitable but it is not good for
:58:16. > :58:20.either side of the Coalition. Voters will look at it and say it is
:58:21. > :58:31.politics of the playground. I read in the Mail on Sunday this morning
:58:32. > :58:36.that some Tory insiders are accusing Lib Dems of spreading rumours about
:58:37. > :58:43.the camera in marriage. The rebuttals of education story is that
:58:44. > :58:53.the free school meals is sucking money away. I always thought they
:58:54. > :58:59.would work together without fuss and yet it has been more the source of
:59:00. > :59:04.disagreement then I would have expected a couple of years ago. Is
:59:05. > :59:11.it serious? It is serious obviously, using that language, but is it fatal
:59:12. > :59:14.for the Coalition? I think it is a road bump because I don't think
:59:15. > :59:18.anybody wants to dissolve the Coalition. It is a challenge for
:59:19. > :59:22.Labour because where do they stand on the free schools? They invented
:59:23. > :59:27.the Academy programme so it is difficult for them to take a
:59:28. > :59:30.hands-off approach at this stage. There was a danger for Michael Gove
:59:31. > :59:34.that he looks ideological but the danger for the Liberal Democrats is
:59:35. > :59:38.that they are breaking the rules for the Coalition they said that they
:59:39. > :59:43.wouldn't break which is that they looked like opposition in
:59:44. > :59:50.government. Is Michael Gove's position safe? Very safe. If he
:59:51. > :59:56.moves in a reshuffle that will be to a a job. That's all for today. The
:59:57. > :59:59.Daily Politics will be back on BBC Two at lunchtime from Tuesday
:00:00. > :00:02.onwards. I'll be back here on BBC One at 11am next week. Remember if
:00:03. > :00:51.it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.
:00:52. > :00:52.What if the person that killed her...
:00:53. > :00:56.I found out she'd been taking drugs. Just let me explain.
:00:57. > :00:59.You wasn't at that party all night. Yeah, I was.
:01:00. > :01:02.What was she even doing there? Oi, you keep your mouth shut.
:01:03. > :01:04.She was exchanging a significant number of texts and calls
:01:05. > :01:07.with someone in the weeks leading up to her death.
:01:08. > :01:10.It's like we didn't really know her at all.