:00:37. > :00:44.Well, this is the closest I'll get to Rio.
:00:45. > :00:48.The advance of the Islamist army on Baghdad has been slowed.
:00:49. > :00:50.The Iraqi army claims the fightback has begun.
:00:51. > :00:52.But the country now faces a de facto partition.
:00:53. > :00:55.What should Britain, Europe, or the US be doing - if anything?
:00:56. > :00:58.It's been a big week in the Scottish referendum.
:00:59. > :01:02.But has the tone of the debate become too downright nasty?
:01:03. > :01:10.Both sides join us to go head to head.
:01:11. > :01:14.I will swap Ed Miliband for Tim Farren. What is the significance of
:01:15. > :01:15.that? And as World Cup sticker fever grips
:01:16. > :01:18.even Westminster, we'll be asking Here: Trojan Horse or Trojan Hoax.
:01:19. > :01:28.to make last-minute substitutions Here: Trojan Horse or Trojan Hoax.
:01:29. > :01:31.Birmingham is the Britain In London, why the minority vote one
:01:32. > :01:32.recent elections Labour, but recent support amongst people is bigger
:01:33. > :01:44.than assumed. The Sunni Islamist army known
:01:45. > :01:46.as ISIS is now in control of huge swathes of northern
:01:47. > :01:49.and western Iraq, including Until the weekend they looked
:01:50. > :01:52.like advancing relentlessly on Baghdad but that offensive has
:01:53. > :01:54.now been slowed or even halted The Iraqi army
:01:55. > :01:59.and its Shia milita allies vow that Baghdad will not be taken and that
:02:00. > :02:06.a counter-attack will soon begin. Iraq's Shia Prime Minister Nouri
:02:07. > :02:08.al-Maliki has to do something to reverse the humiliation
:02:09. > :02:10.of recent days, which saw his US-trained and equipped Iraqi
:02:11. > :02:16.army, which outnumbered the Islamists 15 to 1 melt away or
:02:17. > :02:20.surrender when confronted by ISIS. The conflict has already created a
:02:21. > :02:22.humanitarian crisis, with hundreds The Kurds have used the conflict to
:02:23. > :02:32.consolidate their hold on their autonomous area in the north, parts
:02:33. > :02:36.of the west and the north are in the grip of ISIS control and the Shias
:02:37. > :02:39.are hunkering down in the east. All of which makes a three-way
:02:40. > :02:42.partition a real possibility with The US is moving another
:02:43. > :02:46.of its massive aircraft carrier battlefleets to the Gulf,
:02:47. > :02:49.though the White House shows no While Iran says it's ready to help
:02:50. > :02:53.its Shia allies and there are unconfoirmed reports
:02:54. > :02:55.that its revolutionary guard has Well, I'm joined now by Newsnight's
:02:56. > :03:14.diplomatic editor Mark Urban. Let's start with some basics. Who
:03:15. > :03:21.are ISIS and why are they controlling big chunks of Iraq? ISIS
:03:22. > :03:25.is an extremist militant jihad organisation and they have a pure
:03:26. > :03:29.Islamic concept based on 14th century history and jurisprudence.
:03:30. > :03:36.What they want to do is correct -- create this caliphate that do not
:03:37. > :03:39.recognise colonial boundaries so it involves Syria and Iraq, and they
:03:40. > :03:42.could go down to Lebanon and Palestine, that is all fair game as
:03:43. > :03:48.far as they are concerned. And they have this strict interpretation of
:03:49. > :03:53.Islam. The more interesting question is why have semi-Sunni Muslims,
:03:54. > :03:58.along with them, these are precisely the sort of people who in 2006,
:03:59. > :04:02.2007, tribal leaders in the west of the country rose up against. It was
:04:03. > :04:07.called the Awakening and the Americans in power did and
:04:08. > :04:12.bankrolled it. These people turned against them and admired them in
:04:13. > :04:15.large numbers, so why do they have so many Sunni Muslims on their
:04:16. > :04:18.side? We hear about people going back to Mosul. I think the answer is
:04:19. > :04:22.a perception back to Mosul. I think the answer
:04:23. > :04:25.that the current government is ruling in sectarian interests, Shia
:04:26. > :04:28.Muslim interest, and the Sunni Muslims want self-determination and
:04:29. > :04:32.this is their best bet. Muslims want self-determination and
:04:33. > :04:35.this is their Let me put up this map to find out where we are going. We
:04:36. > :04:41.can see Mosul in the north, they took that, and then they started,
:04:42. > :04:49.South, reports that the crit was involved -- to grit -- to grit. What
:04:50. > :04:53.is the situation on the ground now? We are in what you might call a
:04:54. > :05:01.consolidation or strategic pause as American called it in 2003. ISIS are
:05:02. > :05:04.trying to consolidate their power in Mosul, and now they have this major
:05:05. > :05:09.city and they are trying to show they can run the city and get the
:05:10. > :05:12.power going, etc. Their southernmost forces, that is a gorilla army, guys
:05:13. > :05:18.in pick-up trucks. They cannot deal with serious opposition. They would
:05:19. > :05:21.like to get the tanks and other things into action but that could
:05:22. > :05:26.take weeks for them to be able to do it. The government side is that they
:05:27. > :05:30.have counter-attacked, but it will take a little while before these
:05:31. > :05:36.newly raised militia and other task forces, call them what you will can
:05:37. > :05:42.effectively counter-attacked. But that is what will happen in the next
:05:43. > :05:44.week or two. We will see increasingly large and serious
:05:45. > :05:53.government counter-attacked trying to retake those places, and I fear a
:05:54. > :06:00.really difficult, bloody Syrian style street by street battle for
:06:01. > :06:06.some of these urban centres. I would like to have a look at this map
:06:07. > :06:08.because the Kurds, as I mentioned, they are consolidating their
:06:09. > :06:14.position in the autonomous region in the north. The Islamist are taking
:06:15. > :06:20.over huge chunks of the Sunni Muslim West. And of course the Shia Muslim
:06:21. > :06:24.are still dominant in control of Baghdad and in parts of the south
:06:25. > :06:33.and east. Back to me looks like the beginnings of the partition of Iraq.
:06:34. > :06:36.-- back to me. Well, it is, but we have to caveat it in a few ways
:06:37. > :06:42.Firstly, there are millions of people in Iraq, so-called sushi
:06:43. > :06:46.combined families, who do not fit easily into the pattern. Do we see
:06:47. > :06:52.millions of people becoming refugees under this scheme? There would be a
:06:53. > :06:57.lot of human tragedies if people really did try to enforce this type
:06:58. > :07:03.partition. Secondly, there are Sunni Muslim communities in the south of
:07:04. > :07:08.Baghdad, those places, once again, a lot of misery and fighting will
:07:09. > :07:20.occur if people try to enforce a de facto partition. There are still an
:07:21. > :07:26.awakening of forces. They are on the side of the government. We heard
:07:27. > :07:30.about one group in Samarra of Sunni Muslims fighting on the same side.
:07:31. > :07:34.It's a complex picture. They factor, it does look like a partition, and
:07:35. > :07:40.if it goes further in that direction it will. And partition will always
:07:41. > :07:43.be messy because people end up on the wrong side of the lies.
:07:44. > :07:48.Finally, the big thing on that map, Iran, a huge place, a huge border
:07:49. > :07:55.with Shia Muslim Iraq. Iran now becomes a key factor. It is becoming
:07:56. > :07:59.a proxy war for Iran. Yes, when I was in Baghdad a few months ago I
:08:00. > :08:02.did actually see Iranians revolutionary guards in uniform
:08:03. > :08:08.They were protecting a senior Iranians official, so some numbers
:08:09. > :08:13.have been never some time and they are also said to protect the
:08:14. > :08:17.political leaders and -- in his compound. They are there. We think
:08:18. > :08:21.more of them are trying to organise the defence of Baghdad to galvanise
:08:22. > :08:26.the Iraqi army, and they will not allow the Iraqi government to fall.
:08:27. > :08:31.Mark, thank you for marking archive this morning. -- marking our card.
:08:32. > :08:33.Tony Blair took Britain into the Iraq conflict in 2003.
:08:34. > :08:36.He's now, among other things, envoy to the Middle East representing
:08:37. > :08:39.That's the UN, the EU, the US and Russia.
:08:40. > :08:41.This morning he entered the debate about what should be
:08:42. > :08:52.My point is simple. If you left Saddam in place in 2003, when 2 11
:08:53. > :08:58.happened and you have the Arab revolutions going through Tunisia,
:08:59. > :09:03.Libya, Yemen, Bahrain and Egypt and Syria, you would still have had a
:09:04. > :09:06.major problem in Iraq. You can see what happens when you leave the
:09:07. > :09:10.dictator in place, as has happened with Bashar al-Assad. The problem
:09:11. > :09:15.doesn't go away. What I'm trying to say is, we can rerun the debates
:09:16. > :09:19.about 2003, and there are perfectly legitimate points on either side,
:09:20. > :09:22.but where we are in 2014, we have do understand that this is a regional
:09:23. > :09:26.problem, but a problem that will affect us.
:09:27. > :09:29.And I'm joined by the former Foreign Office minister Mark Malloch-Brown,
:09:30. > :09:32.Here in London are James Rubin, he was chief spokesman
:09:33. > :09:35.for the State Department under Bill Clinton, and Bayan Rahman,
:09:36. > :09:48.she represents the Kurdistan Regional government in the UK.
:09:49. > :09:52.Intervened in Iraq, it's a shambles, we don't intervene in Syria, it s a
:09:53. > :09:58.shambles. What lessons should we draw? That is a well framed
:09:59. > :10:01.question, because that is the problem. Tony Blair is half right.
:10:02. > :10:06.Iraq, like Syria, would probably have been a problem even without an
:10:07. > :10:11.intervention. But one wishes someone would tell him to stay quiet during
:10:12. > :10:16.moments like this, because it does drive a great surge of people in the
:10:17. > :10:18.other direction. The fact is, what has been missing in western politics
:10:19. > :10:24.towards the Middle East throughout both episodes, Syria and Iraq, is a
:10:25. > :10:29.drive to build an inclusive, democratic centre which is secular
:10:30. > :10:33.and nonsectarian. That has been missing amongst the threats of
:10:34. > :10:38.invasion Manon invasion, we have just constantly neglected the
:10:39. > :10:43.diplomatic nation-building dimensional this. I want to come
:10:44. > :10:47.onto what is happening on the ground. I want to begin with what
:10:48. > :10:50.the Western response by me, and by that we mean the United States,
:10:51. > :10:54.because of it doesn't do anything, nobody will do anything. All of the
:10:55. > :10:58.signals I see coming out of the White is that Barack Obama has no
:10:59. > :11:02.appetite for intervention -- out of the White House. I don't think he
:11:03. > :11:09.does have an appetite. He would be very unlikely to do anything very
:11:10. > :11:14.large. He might feel pressured to act because of the fact that this
:11:15. > :11:18.particular group, this Al-Qaeda inspired group, fits into the
:11:19. > :11:22.strategy he has pursued in Yemen and Afghanistan and Pakistan, to use
:11:23. > :11:33.drone strikes against individual terrorists. So it is possible that
:11:34. > :11:37.the threat of ISIS in the region and the West in general might inspire
:11:38. > :11:43.him to act, but the idea he will do enough, militarily, to transform
:11:44. > :11:49.Iraq from its current state of civil War into something along the lines
:11:50. > :11:54.that Mark was talking about, nation-building diplomacy, a big
:11:55. > :11:58.operation, I don't see President Obama sees his historic mission as
:11:59. > :12:03.having got the United States as out of it. Leave it to the Pacific,
:12:04. > :12:09.perhaps. What would the Kurds like the West to do? First of all, in
:12:10. > :12:13.Kurdistan we face a huge humanitarian crisis. We already have
:12:14. > :12:16.had bought a quarter of a million Syrian refugees and we were
:12:17. > :12:22.struggling to cope with that. And now we have at least double that
:12:23. > :12:25.number of refugees coming from Mosul. First and foremost, we are
:12:26. > :12:30.calling on the international community to help us with that. So
:12:31. > :12:34.we need humanitarian aid? Let's assume we do that in some way, maybe
:12:35. > :12:38.not enough, but what else if anything? I think it is an incumbent
:12:39. > :12:44.on the west and other powers to assist Iraq to get rid of ISIS. I
:12:45. > :12:51.think the Sunni Arab community, some of whom have joined ISIS and may be
:12:52. > :12:58.supported the uprising, have justified complaints against the
:12:59. > :13:01.federal government. But we need the terrorists out of Iraq. That is
:13:02. > :13:06.first and foremost. And what the West can do is not necessarily
:13:07. > :13:08.intervene with boots on the ground, but provide technical assistance,
:13:09. > :13:14.provide intelligence and help the Iraqi army and air force to be more
:13:15. > :13:22.targeted. Can you defend yourselves? In Kurdistan, we can in terms of the
:13:23. > :13:25.disciplined troops. In this situation, I hope they won't be
:13:26. > :13:30.abandoning their post, that is for sure. It is a national cause fires.
:13:31. > :13:36.But we are not armed in the way that the Iraqi army is -- cause for us.
:13:37. > :13:40.We are not armed in the way that ISIS seems to be now they have
:13:41. > :13:43.seized some of the American kit We are not asking for weapons, but we
:13:44. > :13:48.ask for assistance for all of Iraq to deal with the situation. Mark,
:13:49. > :13:53.this is not just an Iraqi problem. This is a regional conflict, and
:13:54. > :13:58.from the Levant on the shores of the Mediterranean, all the way through
:13:59. > :14:04.to the Gulf, the region is gripped with what is essentially a Sunni and
:14:05. > :14:07.Shia Muslim sectarian war. Yes, with the caveats that Mark bourbon made
:14:08. > :14:11.earlier, it's not quite that straightforward, but the basic
:14:12. > :14:16.divide is exactly that -- Mark Urban. People have been looking for
:14:17. > :14:19.this to begin in Lebanon or Jordan and have been taken by surprise
:14:20. > :14:26.although with hindsight I'm not sure why, that it has begun in Iraq
:14:27. > :14:28.instead. At its most extreme, it risks redrawing the 20th century
:14:29. > :14:33.boundaries of the region in a way which would be highly unstable
:14:34. > :14:38.because it would pit a Shia Muslim bloc against the Sunni Muslim bloc
:14:39. > :14:43.and would undo all of the sort of social and economic advance of the
:14:44. > :14:48.last century, so the stakes are suddenly very, very high indeed Are
:14:49. > :14:54.we seeing the redrawing? The lines were drawn secretly, not far from
:14:55. > :14:58.here, about a mile away, and may have survived through thick and
:14:59. > :15:03.thin. They now look pretty fragile. The map is being redrawn. I think it
:15:04. > :15:10.is true that there is a key factor partition going on -- des facto
:15:11. > :15:17.Woodrow Wilson probably gave a bit of a hand to the promotion of the
:15:18. > :15:20.idea of self-determination, and in a way, there is a self determination
:15:21. > :15:24.going on, particularly in the Kurdish region, and perhaps they may
:15:25. > :15:30.end up the big winners in all of this, because they have proceeded
:15:31. > :15:32.with a relatively moderate, reconcilable government. The key
:15:33. > :15:43.thing that the Kurdish region has done. They used to fight the two
:15:44. > :15:48.groups, and now they fight together. What the Sunni Muslims have not done
:15:49. > :15:56.is figure out how to let politics let the side things instead of guns.
:15:57. > :16:03.We need to look clearly and in Syria and Iraq, if there is a Sunni
:16:04. > :16:08.extremist with ISIS that carves out a place for itself, it will be the
:16:09. > :16:13.great irony of the modern era. President Bush said he wanted to go
:16:14. > :16:21.into Iraq to fight terrorism. There was no terrorist. There are now If
:16:22. > :16:27.in Iraq and Syria together thereat a thousand strong Al-Qaeda capability
:16:28. > :16:29.that threatens the region, the West, the world, we are all going to
:16:30. > :16:57.have to do something about it. The danger is that power will
:16:58. > :17:02.spread. This could grow in power. You would not want it on your
:17:03. > :17:05.southern border. Absolutely, we would not. The point we are all
:17:06. > :17:11.making indirectly is that things have changed in Iraq and will never
:17:12. > :17:14.be the same again. Whether Iraq completely disintegrates into three
:17:15. > :17:16.countries, or whether it stays together as one country, but a
:17:17. > :17:19.countries, or whether it stays together as one country, but loose
:17:20. > :17:26.federation, either way, Iraq has changed. It will not go back to what
:17:27. > :17:29.it was. I hope it will change for the better. I think we're at the
:17:30. > :17:37.make or break point for Iraq. Either the political readers -- the
:17:38. > :17:41.political leaders of a right wake up and smell the coffee and put aside
:17:42. > :17:46.their differences or there will be problems. This provides that
:17:47. > :17:52.opportunity, in a very nasty way. If we take it? Yes, and if not, I think
:17:53. > :18:01.this is the end of a rack as we know it. If anything resembling a
:18:02. > :18:06.caliphate emerges, that is very destabilising for the region itself.
:18:07. > :18:11.More so I would suggest than even the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in
:18:12. > :18:18.Afghanistan. At some stage, you have to assume that they will be coming
:18:19. > :18:28.for us. That is correct. This is extremely dangerous. The only way
:18:29. > :18:32.forward is for these political groups to talk to each other and
:18:33. > :18:36.find a compromise that allows the rates of cinemas and minorities in
:18:37. > :18:39.Iraq to be protected within or the rates of cinemas and minorities in
:18:40. > :18:43.Iraq to be protected with an autonomous federal-state. Any
:18:44. > :18:46.support for the government must be premised on that. There is no
:18:47. > :19:04.military solution for this which is in during -- there is no military
:19:05. > :19:08.solution for this. There must be serious political negotiation, not
:19:09. > :19:12.with ISIS, but with Sunni Muslim moderates, to form a more
:19:13. > :19:17.representative government. This is the last chance for Iraq. I think we
:19:18. > :19:20.are all saying that that is going to need to be some major western
:19:21. > :19:26.leadership to make some big decisions here for the future of the
:19:27. > :19:30.region. I am concerned that after Afghanistan and Iraq, my country is
:19:31. > :19:35.quite world-weary, quite world-weary. It does not seem to be
:19:36. > :19:40.giving leadership. Certainly we are not seeing that in Europe. I am
:19:41. > :19:44.deeply concerned that we are not going to take the leadership role
:19:45. > :19:50.that needs to be taken. These are big issues. When Britain and France
:19:51. > :19:53.carved up the Middle East, they were world powers, operating as global
:19:54. > :19:58.powers, and without that global leadership by somebody, this is just
:19:59. > :20:00.going to get worse and worse. I think we will leave it there, thank
:20:01. > :20:05.you very much. The danger is that power will
:20:06. > :20:10.spread. This could grow in power. It is just under 100 days until the
:20:11. > :20:13.referendum on Scottish independence. So, for once,
:20:14. > :20:15.it'll be a long hot-summer But the campaign isn't
:20:16. > :20:20.just getting heated. In places it's also
:20:21. > :20:22.down-right nasty. When Scotland's best-selling author
:20:23. > :20:24.announced she was giving the unionist cause a million pounds
:20:25. > :20:26.this week, she received Independence supporters online,
:20:27. > :20:34.so-called cybernats, called JK Rowling a traitor
:20:35. > :20:37.and much worse, using a variety of For its part, the Better Together
:20:38. > :20:41.campaign has been accused Even Gordon Brown seems to think so,
:20:42. > :20:44.and this week he criticised Conservative ministers
:20:45. > :20:46.for relying on "threats With the Edinburgh Festival
:20:47. > :20:51.approaching, reports suggest even comedians are now reluctant to
:20:52. > :20:54.engage in the subject because I'm joined by Blair Jenkins from
:20:55. > :21:00.Yes Scotland and Jackie Baillie They're both in our Glasgow studio,
:21:01. > :21:20.and they're going head to head. Blair Jenkins, let me come to you
:21:21. > :21:24.first. Why have you and the Better Together campaign and Alex Salmond
:21:25. > :21:28.not done more to slap down the cyber nationalists who are poisoning the
:21:29. > :21:34.debate? Good morning. I think both sides tried to stop the tiny number
:21:35. > :21:38.of people on both sides who are incapable of controlling
:21:39. > :21:43.themselves. We should not get this out of proportion. We are having a
:21:44. > :21:47.fantastic, decent and democratic debate. The people who probably
:21:48. > :21:50.total no more than 100 on both sides who post offensive material or not
:21:51. > :21:55.to be allowed to deflect from that fact. Of course there are nasty
:21:56. > :21:59.people on the Better Together side as well, but are you saying there
:22:00. > :22:05.are as many of those as the cyber nationalists? I have not done the
:22:06. > :22:11.Kent. Lots of people are certainly posting nasty in defensive things to
:22:12. > :22:16.people in the yes campaigners well. I imagine that people do what I do,
:22:17. > :22:22.and block them. You stop them from sending anything further. There is a
:22:23. > :22:26.democratic and in gauging progress going on throughout Scotland. It is
:22:27. > :22:30.characterised by good humour and good debate. We should not get out
:22:31. > :22:36.of proportion and the activities of the number of people. I want to get
:22:37. > :22:39.to Jackie Baillie. The debate is actually pretty good-humoured and
:22:40. > :22:43.you should be doing more about the nasties on your side as well? I
:22:44. > :22:48.think we have reached a new low this week. Despite many people engaging
:22:49. > :22:54.in the politics of the decision and the debate about that, whether we
:22:55. > :22:58.want to retain the best of both worlds are separate from the United
:22:59. > :23:05.Kingdom, what we have seen is the most abusive and vitriolic attack,
:23:06. > :23:10.particularly on women, JK Rowling and a Labour supporter who dared to
:23:11. > :23:15.support the no campaign. When you look at the number of people on
:23:16. > :23:20.social media, there are more from the yes campaign than the no site.
:23:21. > :23:28.We should all be condemning attacks, from whatever quarter they come
:23:29. > :23:32.This seemed to be connected to the office of the First Minister. What
:23:33. > :23:38.is the evidence for that? There was an e-mail from one of the... I
:23:39. > :23:47.understand about that, but it did not use vile words. It did not, but
:23:48. > :23:51.it repeated the same mistake as on the website. We should be clear that
:23:52. > :23:56.we need to condemn these attacks, but it is not just the water works,
:23:57. > :24:01.it is taking action. There was an IpsosMORI poll this week which was
:24:02. > :24:06.varying testing. It showed the population as a whole, farmer people
:24:07. > :24:11.think that Yes Scotland is running an effective campaign as against
:24:12. > :24:19.Better Together. It is a undecided voters think this by a majority of
:24:20. > :24:23.four 21. Some people are worried about of the campaign. JK Rowling,
:24:24. > :24:29.Scotland's most successful author of all time. She gives ?1 million to
:24:30. > :24:34.the Better Together campaign. She then faces some of the most
:24:35. > :24:41.incredible abuse. I know what it is like because I have had some myself.
:24:42. > :24:46.Traitor, Quisling. I cannot use some of the words, it is Sunday morning.
:24:47. > :24:51.Why does Scottish Nationalists culture have such a revolting
:24:52. > :24:54.fringe? JK Rowling is entitled to our views and it is unacceptable if
:24:55. > :24:59.people say offensive things about her or anyone else who voices and
:25:00. > :25:03.opinion in this debate. Who are obese people? When you look at the
:25:04. > :25:07.accounts of some of the people who were posting these things about JK
:25:08. > :25:12.Rowling, they were using the same sort of language about film stars
:25:13. > :25:19.and football stars. This was just part of their language on Twitter.
:25:20. > :25:26.How often has Alex Salmond condemned the cyber nationalists? Very often.
:25:27. > :25:29.Everyone in the campaign hands. By common consent, Yes Scotland is
:25:30. > :25:35.running a thoroughly positive campaign, much more positive than
:25:36. > :25:40.Better Together. Jackie Baillie it hardly helps matters when Alistair
:25:41. > :25:43.Darling, who runs your campaign compares Alex Salmond to Kim Jong Il
:25:44. > :25:49.and North Korea. That hardly elevates the debate? I think we need
:25:50. > :25:56.to elevate the debate. There are less than a hundred days to go. It
:25:57. > :26:03.is a massive decision. We need to elevate the debate beyond attacks. I
:26:04. > :26:08.think there is much more that Yes Scotland and the SNP can do. You
:26:09. > :26:15.have made that point. Why are you running a campaign based on fear?
:26:16. > :26:21.The codename of your campaign is even project fear. It is threats.
:26:22. > :26:26.You cannot have the pound, there will be no shipbuilding. You will be
:26:27. > :26:31.flooded by immigrants. Why are you so negative? I am not negative at
:26:32. > :26:35.all and neither is the campaign The campaign has asked questions and I
:26:36. > :26:39.think it is legitimate to ask questions of the people proposing
:26:40. > :26:44.such a fundamental change. People care about the economy, their jobs,
:26:45. > :26:50.their families. What would happen to them if they leave the rest of the
:26:51. > :26:52.United Kingdom. I think it is legitimate to ask questions. I
:26:53. > :27:00.refuse to be asked of scaremongering. People deserve
:27:01. > :27:07.answers. The yes campaign is equally guilty of some of the most
:27:08. > :27:13.outrageous scaremongering. Maybe you are both scaremongering. Blair
:27:14. > :27:18.Jenkins, the First Minister said of the cyber nationalists, that they
:27:19. > :27:23.are just Daft folk, as if they were mischievous little children. It is
:27:24. > :27:30.worse than that. When you look at what they say, they are twisted
:27:31. > :27:33.perhaps even evil minds. I would not disagree with his comments, but they
:27:34. > :27:38.are directed at just a small number of people. The story of this
:27:39. > :27:43.campaign is not the story of what people are saying on Twitter. Around
:27:44. > :27:49.Scotland, lots of people are getting engaged in debate to have been tuned
:27:50. > :27:54.out of the political process. Today, we have 47% support for the yes
:27:55. > :27:59.campaign. The movement in the campaign is towards yes. People know
:28:00. > :28:05.we have a better campaign, a vision for Scotland. The latest poll of
:28:06. > :28:09.polls does not show that. Both sides, you always take the opinion
:28:10. > :28:15.polls that show you in the best light. All politicians do that.
:28:16. > :28:20.Jackie Baillie, your campaign is not just negative, it is patronising.
:28:21. > :28:26.You make dubious claims that Scots would be ?1400 better off by staying
:28:27. > :28:33.in the union, and then you say that the kids use the money to scoff 280
:28:34. > :28:36.hotdogs at the Edinburgh Festival. The fate of the nation is in your
:28:37. > :28:42.hands and that is the best you can do? I think you will find that the
:28:43. > :28:48.campaign is something that we are taking the message to people. Then
:28:49. > :28:56.why are you talking about hotdogs? I do not. The campaign did. We are
:28:57. > :29:00.taking a positive message to people across Scotland about the benefits
:29:01. > :29:04.of the United Kingdom. We believe we are stronger and more secure and
:29:05. > :29:08.more stable, being part of that family of nations that is the United
:29:09. > :29:13.Kingdom. At the same time, we have the strange and power over things
:29:14. > :29:19.like education and transport. I understand that. I am not doing the
:29:20. > :29:24.issues today, I am talking about the tone of the campaign. I have one
:29:25. > :29:31.very important question. Who would you supporting last night in the
:29:32. > :29:35.England-Italy match? I was not watching the game. I would be
:29:36. > :29:39.delighted to see England do well in this tournament. I have Argentina in
:29:40. > :29:43.the office sweepstake. I have to keep some attention on them, but I
:29:44. > :29:49.would be delighted to seeing Clint do well. That is because you think
:29:50. > :29:55.it will help your campaign. It will annoy the Scots. Jackie Baillie I
:29:56. > :30:02.was supporting England. I was also supporting Portugal.
:30:03. > :30:04.Now most of you probably missed last night's football match
:30:05. > :30:07.between England and Italy because you wanted to get an early night and
:30:08. > :30:11.England lost despite a plucky effort, I'm told.
:30:12. > :30:14.But even Westminster is in the grip of World Cup fever
:30:15. > :30:16.and with speculation about the fitness of each political
:30:17. > :30:23.party's team we sent Adam out to tackle some of the big players.
:30:24. > :30:26.Well, this is the closest I'll get to Rio.
:30:27. > :30:39.This year everybody seems to have gone a bit mad Belize, football
:30:40. > :30:46.stickers. Let's see who I will get. Oh, the suspense -- a bit mad for
:30:47. > :30:47.these. George Osborne? That is because we leapt on the bandwagon
:30:48. > :30:50.and made Alan political stickers. They're hotter than a Brazilian
:30:51. > :30:52.barbecue. And at Westminster they're
:30:53. > :31:01.turning into collector?s items. Sunday politics political stickers.
:31:02. > :31:06.We have one of you, Norman. Would you like it? Do you want to start
:31:07. > :31:06.collecting, Bob? Would you like a packet?
:31:07. > :31:14.collecting, Bob? Would you like a Thank you. No album, I'm afraid
:31:15. > :31:17.collecting, Bob? Would you like a Thank you. No album, I've got
:31:18. > :31:25.Michael Gove, next to to Reza, and two of the Prime Minister. -- next
:31:26. > :31:27.to Theresa. I am sure Michael has Theresa in her stick around, and
:31:28. > :31:28.vice versa. These Tory ones are proving very
:31:29. > :31:30.popular since she fell out with him out how
:31:31. > :31:33.to handle extremism in schools. And there's been open speculation
:31:34. > :31:36.about him taking on him in Then there are rumours of a
:31:37. > :31:47.reshuffle of the whole Tory album. Do you think there will be any
:31:48. > :31:57.swapping in the Tory leadership soon? Who knows? David Cameron has
:31:58. > :31:58.also got to replace the EU commissioner, Cathy Ashton, who is
:31:59. > :31:59.standing down. Does he go with the favourite
:32:00. > :32:01.the former health secretary Or the grassroots choice,
:32:02. > :32:04.Martin Callanan, the Tories old Or does he rehabilitate
:32:05. > :32:22.Andrew Mitchell after Plebgate? Do you fancy being European
:32:23. > :32:25.Commissioner? I would rather be spending the money on the world s
:32:26. > :32:28.poor and spending it well. Glad to hear it. Happy collecting.
:32:29. > :32:30.Right, there must be some Labour stickers out there.
:32:31. > :32:38.You don't want to swap Ed Balls any of the others? Can't I keep them
:32:39. > :32:39.all? This is almost the perfect team.
:32:40. > :32:43.There have been grumblings about the fitness of the Shadow
:32:44. > :32:46.And Ed Miliband's got a kicking in Liverpool after posing
:32:47. > :32:58.I'm told grown men are meeting up in pubs for sticker swaps -
:32:59. > :33:02.With Danny Finkelstein - Tory peer and Times columnist,
:33:03. > :33:14.He would be the card I would not want to trade. Do people want to
:33:15. > :33:18.trade him in? I don't think anybody wants to trade him in at the moment.
:33:19. > :33:21.He is the best person to lead the Labour party and will lead us into
:33:22. > :33:25.the next election. There's been a lot about Michael Gove, and he's
:33:26. > :33:28.very combative. That's been a huge strength as an education Secretary,
:33:29. > :33:32.despite the fact it's brought in trouble. I would think the prime
:33:33. > :33:35.minister would tell him not to get himself into peripheral battles at
:33:36. > :33:41.the moment but stick to what has been successful. I haven't got Nick
:33:42. > :33:47.Clegg, but I got me. Controversy amongst collectors of Lib Dems. I
:33:48. > :33:48.need to give away me in return for Nick Clegg. That would be far
:33:49. > :33:52.better. There you are. Some local parties are holding
:33:53. > :33:55.meetings about his leadership, but at one in Cambridge this week
:33:56. > :34:08.they voted to stick with him. You have got a Euro Commissioner.
:34:09. > :34:11.Why don't I swap, I will swap Ed Miliband for Tim Farren. Can I do
:34:12. > :34:14.that? What is the significance of that? Very significant. Happy
:34:15. > :34:17.collecting. These beauties are popping up
:34:18. > :34:20.everywhere, but sadly they won't Adam is still doing the samba around
:34:21. > :34:30.Westminster as I speak. I'm joined
:34:31. > :34:32.by three journalists who've been furiously swapping stickers
:34:33. > :34:34.throughout the show, they certainly weren't allowed to stay up to watch
:34:35. > :34:44.the football, it's Nick Watt, We will talk about Labour after the
:34:45. > :34:47.break, and I want to concentrate on the Tories, but the moment, Nick,
:34:48. > :34:56.senior Tories are saying privately that they might win next May. They
:34:57. > :35:02.are beginning to dream the dream. So why are they doing all this
:35:03. > :35:07.jockeying? I think the jockeying for the leadership is about a year old.
:35:08. > :35:13.What stoped it up was when Theresa gave a speech to the conference and
:35:14. > :35:17.people said she was doing it just in case, when things were not looking
:35:18. > :35:21.too good. She is not on manoeuvres. I think it was a policy row that
:35:22. > :35:25.drove the differences with Michael Gove. But Michael Gove is on
:35:26. > :35:28.manoeuvres, and he is trying to protect George Osborne from, he
:35:29. > :35:35.believes, a serious threat from Boris Johnson and possibly Theresa.
:35:36. > :35:38.It is quite self-indulgent when you are a couple of points behind, the
:35:39. > :35:48.economy is going your way, to be involved in this sort of stuff.
:35:49. > :35:54.Extraordinary. It shows the toxic disease that gnaws at the entrails
:35:55. > :35:57.of the Tory party, and Cameron is their great asset. He is more
:35:58. > :36:01.popular than the party, he bridges the gap is, and he has an
:36:02. > :36:05.extraordinary dissemble and some pretending to be this moderate while
:36:06. > :36:08.never the lens -- nevertheless leading the most far right wing
:36:09. > :36:12.government we have had since the war, and that has been a brilliant
:36:13. > :36:14.piece of political Charente and they would be crazy to get rid of it --
:36:15. > :36:17.political Charente. piece of political Charente and they
:36:18. > :36:22.would be crazy to get rid of it -- charades. Does this rumble on? I
:36:23. > :36:27.have an unfashionable view as there aren't half as many leadership plots
:36:28. > :36:30.taking place in Westminster as we assume, and the willingness to read
:36:31. > :36:34.strategic calculation into anything that takes place comes from people
:36:35. > :36:40.watching I Claudius or house of cards. That hasn't been off -- on
:36:41. > :36:47.for years. I needed a reference from your time. I needed something. Maybe
:36:48. > :36:51.brief encounter? It's a stylised view of how politics works, and so
:36:52. > :36:57.much more in life is about randomness and mistakes. Boris
:36:58. > :37:03.Johnson, Theresa May, Michael Gove as George Osborne's man on earth,
:37:04. > :37:06.they are positioning themselves -- Janan wrote an eloquent comment this
:37:07. > :37:13.week about this, but there are certain realities that. Michael Gove
:37:14. > :37:16.had that famous dinner with Rupert Murdoch a few weeks ago in which he
:37:17. > :37:21.said that you must not make Boris Johnson leader of the Conservative
:37:22. > :37:24.party, George Osborne is my man Theresa May set out her credo two
:37:25. > :37:28.years ago and people on her team were saying that she was doing it
:37:29. > :37:32.just in case. People are out there and are thinking of the future, but
:37:33. > :37:36.I do think Janan is right. In the village, in the thick of it mindset,
:37:37. > :37:46.you can get a bit carried away and you can be a bit in the famous. That
:37:47. > :37:52.is before your era. He died. What did he mean by it. You can get a bit
:37:53. > :37:55.carried away by it. I will have words with you during the break
:37:56. > :37:57.It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:37:58. > :38:00.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now
:38:01. > :38:14.Coming up here in 20 minutes, we'll be talking about Ed Miliband's
:38:15. > :38:16.Hello from the Midlands. I'm Patrick Burns.
:38:17. > :38:19.So, what lessons can we learn from the political culture clash
:38:20. > :38:23.We're joined by Mark Pritch`rd, Conservative MP for the Wrekin
:38:24. > :38:26.Khalid Mahmood, Labour MP for Perry Barr in Birmingham.
:38:27. > :38:28.He believes Islamic fundamentalists have been targeting schools
:38:29. > :38:31.His party colleague Shabana Mahmood, Labour MP for Bimingham Ladxwood.
:38:32. > :38:34.She's a fellow Muslim MP, but she has a very different take
:38:35. > :39:07.Could I get your own partictlar reflection on the events th`t have
:39:08. > :39:11.emerged in Birmingham? Therd has been a serious issue in terls of
:39:12. > :39:16.what has been going on in schools and most of that exposed by the
:39:17. > :39:22.inspection. The most import`nt thing in this is our children's education.
:39:23. > :39:26.We need to get back `` make sure that gets back on track. Th`t's why
:39:27. > :39:32.I asked the Secretary of St`te that for the new term we get back to
:39:33. > :39:37.normal. Our national debate has left Muslim parents here in desp`ir
:39:38. > :39:41.because the education of thdir children is being viewed through the
:39:42. > :39:45.prism of national security `nd that is completely unacceptable. There is
:39:46. > :39:49.no doubt there has been bad governance in these schools and
:39:50. > :39:52.things have gone wrong in tdrms of discrimination and other serious
:39:53. > :39:57.issues to be dealt with but we cannot define the problem even
:39:58. > :40:03.correctly. There has not bedn extremism of radicalisation though.
:40:04. > :40:07.Parents send their children to be educated and not indoctrinated. It
:40:08. > :40:11.is good news that the government has acted decisively and swiftlx. I
:40:12. > :40:15.think there are questions to be answered over the governancd of the
:40:16. > :40:21.schools over the next weeks and months. No doubt we will thdn have
:40:22. > :40:24.some answers. Let us see a report on this.
:40:25. > :40:27.This debate has so many new elements that spellcheck
:40:28. > :40:29.But, equally, what exactly does "Britishndss"
:40:30. > :40:32.mean in an inner city school with more than 90% Muslim childrdn?
:40:33. > :40:34.Where does education ` properly representative of local
:40:35. > :40:36.communities ` cross the lind into something separate, alhen?
:40:37. > :40:38.We've heard claims teachers talk of "white prostitutes"
:40:39. > :40:41.and even drop the music frol Wizard of Oz during Ramadan.
:40:42. > :40:43.Birmingham City Council's accused by Ofsted and the Government
:40:44. > :40:46.But THEY report no evidence of any fundamentalist plot.
:40:47. > :40:48.Here's our BBC West Midlands political reporter,
:40:49. > :41:17.A culture of fear and intimhdation has taken place since the schools
:41:18. > :41:21.were last inspected. Last week, Birmingham's schools were
:41:22. > :41:24.in the harsh glare of the n`tional spotlight as the schools watchdog
:41:25. > :41:27.released its reports into the Birmingham City Council said it was
:41:28. > :41:30.confident there was no eviddnce of a co`ordinated Muslim plot, but
:41:31. > :41:50.individuals had acted unaccdptably. Our children have been exposed to
:41:51. > :41:55.things they should not have been exposed to. After the reports came
:41:56. > :42:03.out, a meeting was organised by the newly formed Hands Of Birmingham
:42:04. > :42:07.Schools. And there was crithcism of Michael Gove, the council and the
:42:08. > :42:13.media with some saying they were deliberately targeted because of
:42:14. > :42:15.their faith. These parents hnsist that schools are outstanding and
:42:16. > :42:24.that they have simply been catering for their Muslim pupil's nedds. They
:42:25. > :42:27.say there is no evidence for the more sinister allegations of
:42:28. > :42:34.bullying, segregation and secularisation. I feel shocked and
:42:35. > :42:39.disappointed at the vilific`tion of Muslims in Birmingham and across the
:42:40. > :42:44.country and the unfair witchhunt against many hard`working, sincere,
:42:45. > :42:51.non`extremist Muslim governors and teachers. There is a political
:42:52. > :42:58.agenda because of the electhons The Tories have lost a lot of their
:42:59. > :43:04.boats to UKIP. To bring back voters, what do you do? Target Muslhms and
:43:05. > :43:09.deal with the immigration issue These schools have been deeled
:43:10. > :43:13.inadequate, but even before we address these issues, the
:43:14. > :43:17.allegations started in March. But they're up those who are ad`mant
:43:18. > :43:23.there is something in this `nd that schools overstepped their m`rk. I
:43:24. > :43:28.understand schools saying that their pupil make`up is of a particular
:43:29. > :43:32.religion but that doesn't ndgate the fact that a school's primarx
:43:33. > :43:37.responsibility is to teach `nd not be selective about what it teaches.
:43:38. > :43:43.The Prime Minister said he thinks British values should be tatght in
:43:44. > :43:49.schools. What exactly are they? Yellow ``, freedom, tolerance,
:43:50. > :43:52.respect for the rule of law and respect for British institutions.
:43:53. > :43:58.Those are the sort of things I think should be inculcated into the
:43:59. > :44:02.curriculum in any school. Stpporters of the schools say the valuds of
:44:03. > :44:05.British Muslims are the samd but how they translate to the education of
:44:06. > :44:08.our children is once again tp for debate.
:44:09. > :44:12.So, is this unique to Birmingham, or is it merely on the leading edge
:44:13. > :44:18.of something that's common to other towns and cities?
:44:19. > :44:28.You don't think there is a plot so how do you account for thesd claims
:44:29. > :44:32.and allegations? I have heard them from widely varying sections of the
:44:33. > :44:37.community. We have to distinguish what we have been hearing about in
:44:38. > :44:41.terms of the media narrativd about the plot of extremism and
:44:42. > :44:47.radicalisation of children hn Birmingham. I reject that charge
:44:48. > :44:52.fully. I do think anything hn Ofsted reports supports that. Therd is a
:44:53. > :44:56.separate issue about a group of individuals who seem to havd run up
:44:57. > :45:02.and seemed to have done things in terms of the allegations of bullying
:45:03. > :45:07.and discrimination which ard utterly unacceptable. That is what we need
:45:08. > :45:11.to fix. This is a problem of governance and the powers that
:45:12. > :45:17.governors have and we need to fix that. That small number of
:45:18. > :45:20.individuals have managed to get themselves around these schools and
:45:21. > :45:30.we need to have better intelligence on that at local authority level. Is
:45:31. > :45:34.that as far as it goes? I bdlieve it is more serious because if xou look
:45:35. > :45:38.at the group of people therd and it is false just to say about Hslam.
:45:39. > :45:44.Islam has a number of schools of thought within that and this
:45:45. > :45:49.particular group and the school of Islam within that... What wd have to
:45:50. > :45:53.do is get to the bottom of what they were doing without children which is
:45:54. > :46:01.community. They are actuallx against community. They are actuallx against
:46:02. > :46:06.grooming children away from that, the faith of their parents. There is
:46:07. > :46:09.a real issue about what was happening in those classrools and
:46:10. > :46:17.you don't have to go far to look at this. If you look at the report a
:46:18. > :46:22.few years ago, it says it all. It is not in the best interests of our
:46:23. > :46:29.the fact that these schools operate the fact that these schools operate
:46:30. > :46:34.in a Muslim dominated area but he says there is a clear and sxstematic
:46:35. > :46:39.attempt and a conspiracy. I disagree and it is not an analysis I think is
:46:40. > :46:41.supported by the evidence wd have available to us. A small nulber of
:46:42. > :46:47.individuals appear to have run amok, individuals appear to have run amok,
:46:48. > :46:52.as I said, and have enforced their views on headteachers and the rest
:46:53. > :46:56.of the governing bodies. We heard allegations that Michael Gove, in
:46:57. > :47:01.particular, is using this as a political opportunity to exploit an
:47:02. > :47:07.issue and possibly try to rdgain support captured by UKIP. Is he
:47:08. > :47:12.playing politics? That is not true and I think there is cross can ``
:47:13. > :47:18.cross`party consensus to ensure we get to the bottom of this. Whether
:47:19. > :47:24.it is a skate `` state school, a faith `based school or an academy,
:47:25. > :47:28.what is clear is we need a curriculum that is inclusivd and
:47:29. > :47:38.brings communities together. What do you think Michael Gove means when he
:47:39. > :47:43.talks about nonviolent extrdmism? Almost as if there is a par`llel
:47:44. > :47:47.track to extremism. People can appeal to hearts and minds `nd they
:47:48. > :47:52.can be positive or negative messages. The Prime Minister was
:47:53. > :47:56.right to underline British values bringing us together. The rdspect of
:47:57. > :48:04.the rule of law and freedom of democracy and, above all, tolerance.
:48:05. > :48:08.But what Michael Gove is thd guest culprit of is he lazily complaints
:48:09. > :48:17.issues of extremism with religiosity and how a small C conservathve
:48:18. > :48:21.somebody might be. That is unacceptable and because of the tone
:48:22. > :48:26.he has set in this debate, Luslim whose `` a Muslim who goes to the
:48:27. > :48:30.mosque five times the `` five times a day might, some people might say,
:48:31. > :48:37.be evidence of extremism and that is the sort of thing that has to stop.
:48:38. > :48:42.There is a school of thought that has a hard`line approach and nobody
:48:43. > :48:49.is saying these children were being turned into radicals. What `re you
:48:50. > :48:52.saying it happening then? I am saying these children have been
:48:53. > :48:58.groomed away from the School of faith of their parents. In Hslam
:48:59. > :49:04.there is a number of schools of faith. These people and the way they
:49:05. > :49:09.appointed people to the govdrning body, there was a big group of
:49:10. > :49:15.people doing this and that hs what we need to all the cat. We need to
:49:16. > :49:20.see an improvement in governance. I call on all Muslim parents to get
:49:21. > :49:24.involved in their local school. If they are not happy, get involved
:49:25. > :49:29.yourself. The key thing is we all work together to ensure it hs not
:49:30. > :49:35.repeated either in Birmingh`m or other parts. Language and tone is
:49:36. > :49:41.important. We need to stay tempered and measured but we need to resolve
:49:42. > :49:46.this issue. We have had two types of solutions. We heard the Hodge Hill
:49:47. > :49:51.Labour MPs suggesting all hd is floating the idea, do we nedd more
:49:52. > :49:57.Islamic faith schools in a city with a quarter of a million Muslhms?
:49:58. > :50:01.Another view, do we have wider groups like federations of schools
:50:02. > :50:09.where you don't look the influence of any one particular cultural group
:50:10. > :50:12.within that? I believe, it hs important that we have integration
:50:13. > :50:18.in our cities where there are huge percentages of one communitx and we
:50:19. > :50:23.need to move on from that. Hf we don't, we will have isolated
:50:24. > :50:29.communities which we don't want In this fantastically diverse city of
:50:30. > :50:33.ours, we already have secul`r schools in the state system like my
:50:34. > :50:37.old school which can accommodate and cater for a largely Muslim
:50:38. > :50:41.population, show respect for faith and accommodate faith but rdmain
:50:42. > :50:51.true to their ethos and we have to learn from those schools. Ilams have
:50:52. > :50:55.to make sure they speak out against radicalisation and promote loderate
:50:56. > :51:01.Islam which reflects the vast majority of Muslims across the
:51:02. > :51:04.nation. We saw David Cameron improvising a definition of
:51:05. > :51:13.Britishness. Do we need to dxamine almost base then suppose about, if
:51:14. > :51:16.it is reasonable to buy into principles of Britishness and what
:51:17. > :51:22.do we understand by that? This is exactly the way in which thd debate
:51:23. > :51:26.has been framed, implying these young children are not trulx British
:51:27. > :51:30.Muslims because they haven't been given British values and I reject
:51:31. > :51:35.that. Mark said this a couple of times about moderate Muslims and so
:51:36. > :51:43.on, but the message has gond out that the more devout you ard takes
:51:44. > :51:51.away how moderate you are and that is a message going on and it is
:51:52. > :51:55.wrong. We need to have people.. There is an issue that therd is a
:51:56. > :52:00.particular school of safe who have been at the base of this and if
:52:01. > :52:08.people don't want to recognhse it that is up to them. But that takes
:52:09. > :52:17.them away from their own parents thoughts as well as society. True
:52:18. > :52:21.religion of whatever faith promotes tolerance and speaks about love
:52:22. > :52:25.rather than hate. Perhaps in a world, not only here but in the
:52:26. > :52:30.Middle East, we need to spe`k more about love more than hate whatever
:52:31. > :52:32.our faith. It is good to have ended on a positive note. Thank you for
:52:33. > :52:46.being with us here today. The Birmingham train operator London
:52:47. > :52:49.Midland has been given an extension on their franchise. But MPs warn
:52:50. > :52:58.that if matters don't improve it could be a stay of execution.
:52:59. > :53:03.Privatisation was meant to deliver better services, competitivd prices
:53:04. > :53:08.and more modern Railways but in recent times passenger groups have
:53:09. > :53:13.been left wondering what happened. Passengers want to see benefits but
:53:14. > :53:17.we went to see that with thhs extension. Two years ago, the
:53:18. > :53:21.company cancelled a thousand trains because of a shortage of drhvers and
:53:22. > :53:26.it apologised a year later when delays were up again. Then ht
:53:27. > :53:32.delayed it was cutting a qu`rter of its workforce. A member of the
:53:33. > :53:38.Commons Transport Select Colmittee said any future renewals wotld have
:53:39. > :53:41.to be scrutinised. We would have to look closely at this becausd it is
:53:42. > :53:47.taxpayers money and it is a rail service that affects taxpaydrs of
:53:48. > :53:54.the West Midlands. Labour is currently reviewing `` renewing its
:53:55. > :53:57.railway policy. We will look at the structure of our railways to make
:53:58. > :54:02.sure passengers get a fair deal because they pay a lot of money for
:54:03. > :54:07.their tickets and, in some cases, the quality of service isn't good
:54:08. > :54:12.enough. The transport Department's next big decision is whether the
:54:13. > :54:16.London Midland franchise should be extended until 2017. The signals
:54:17. > :54:18.from politicians suggest th`t more improvements are needed unthl they
:54:19. > :54:31.can give the green light. So, if it is not a green light may
:54:32. > :54:37.be more like an amber warning. What is your impression of London Midland
:54:38. > :54:43.services. They need to raisd their game. The six`month extension is an
:54:44. > :54:47.opportunity for them to prove to the taxpayers that they can raise their
:54:48. > :54:53.game. We have had problems over the last few months and years. Cancelled
:54:54. > :54:59.services, drivers not avail`ble and many of my constituents comluting
:55:00. > :55:06.need to get to work and see family members and rely on this service. A
:55:07. > :55:10.failure of privatisation? I don t think you can make a sweeping
:55:11. > :55:16.statement like that. You look at each company on its merits `nd if
:55:17. > :55:20.they don't improve their services I will ask the Transport Secrdtary not
:55:21. > :55:27.to extend the transport `` franchise any further. It has been a catalogue
:55:28. > :55:32.of failures. They go for a rationalised `` rationalisation
:55:33. > :55:38.programme. That there has bden an issue with services and the planning
:55:39. > :55:43.of this line and we need to deal with it. Six months doesn't do
:55:44. > :55:46.anything. We are trying to love forward and we want to have a proper
:55:47. > :55:52.look and see whether we will keep it in private control or not. Labour
:55:53. > :55:57.are trying to control fares but how realistic is that? It seems
:55:58. > :56:03.reasonable that the fares escalator ensures the people who use the
:56:04. > :56:08.service most pay for a meastre of it. It is getting to the st`ge where
:56:09. > :56:12.we can't afford to travel bx train by and large in this countrx and
:56:13. > :56:15.considering the amount of stbsidies rail companies are getting we might
:56:16. > :56:22.as well look at a different approach. Which plays into Labour 's
:56:23. > :56:30.hands on the cost of living prices? Rail users fares are going tp and
:56:31. > :56:37.they have gone up at a slowdr pace than under the previous govdrnment.
:56:38. > :56:41.Yes, of course, London Midl`nd need to improve their services. H've
:56:42. > :56:45.written to the managing dirdctor on many occasions pointing out a wide
:56:46. > :56:51.variety of failures. But thdy have improved some of the rolling stock.
:56:52. > :56:56.It is a lot more modern and I would like to see that extended bdcause so
:56:57. > :57:00.many passengers are crammed into two few carriages and when you have
:57:01. > :57:04.mothers with toddlers and pdople with pushbikes all crammed hn at
:57:05. > :57:08.peak times they need to provide more services and more space and make it
:57:09. > :57:14.safer and a more pleasant experience. We hear that Birmingham
:57:15. > :57:21.is being short listed as a possible location for the new High Speed 2
:57:22. > :57:29.college to train engineers of the future. Brilliant as we are the
:57:30. > :57:32.heart of engineering and we had the employers Federation in my
:57:33. > :57:43.constituency building a trahning centre for 300 young people. Would
:57:44. > :57:48.you welcome that? Of course. We have great engineering skills and
:57:49. > :57:52.education providers in Shropshire. The College of aeronautical
:57:53. > :57:55.engineering and the College of arts and technology. There is a
:57:56. > :57:57.manufacturing and engineering hub revival in the region and that is
:57:58. > :57:59.good news. Thank you. Let's catch up with
:58:00. > :58:01.the political developments laking Our 60 Seconds round`up is brought
:58:02. > :58:11.to us by Elizabeth Glinka. Staffordshire County Council is
:58:12. > :58:13.consulting over plans to pull out It's hoped community groups will
:58:14. > :58:17.step in and save them from closure. It's official! Sutton Coldfheld is a
:58:18. > :58:20.Royal town once again. It follows a successful campaign
:58:21. > :58:22.by the Sutton Coldfield Obsdrver Up to 30,000 passport applications
:58:23. > :58:26.have been hit by delays. The government came under fhre
:58:27. > :58:28.during after the issue was raised by one of our region's MPs
:58:29. > :58:31.in a special Commons debate. The Queen's Birthday honours saw
:58:32. > :58:34.Stone MP Bill Cash get a knhghthood, Birmingham Lib Dem leader councillor
:58:35. > :58:37.Paul Tilsley a CBE and formdr Wyre And unemployment
:58:38. > :58:42.in the region has fallen by 19, 00. It's now down to 203,000 ` the
:58:43. > :58:45.lowest level for nearly six years. And the Employment Minister,
:58:46. > :58:47.Esther McVeigh has singled out Year`on`year, unemployment here has
:58:48. > :59:02.fallen by nearly 2%, that's almost And unemployment
:59:03. > :59:35.in the region has fallen by 19, 00. Year`on`year our unemployment
:59:36. > :59:40.figures have fallen by 2%. We want that to happen but the standard of
:59:41. > :59:45.living is still difficult. The problem is zero hour contracts and
:59:46. > :59:49.the money people have in thdir pockets. Even with families with
:59:50. > :00:00.parents working they still can't make ends meet. In Birmingh`m, 4.4%
:00:01. > :00:04.unemployment. Serious pockets of very high employment with its
:00:05. > :00:12.stubbornly it `` resistant to your government 's policies. Unelployment
:00:13. > :00:18.is coming down across the rdgion. It is good news in Shropshire where we
:00:19. > :00:23.have seen 5000 new jobs within the last 12 months. As that dem`nd
:00:24. > :00:26.increases, we will start to see a rise in private sector raisds and
:00:27. > :00:30.that would be good news for local people as well.
:00:31. > :00:33.My thanks to Mark Pritchard and Khalid Mahmood.
:00:34. > :00:35.Finally, we mark the passing of one of the greatest political
:00:36. > :00:38.leaders we've never had. I refer, of course, to that one`time
:00:39. > :00:40.doyen of the Westminster village, Alan B'stard, also known
:00:41. > :00:43.as Worcestershire's very own Rik Mayall, who died last Monday.
:00:44. > :00:45.The comic actor grew up in Droitwich and attended King's School,
:00:46. > :00:47.in Worcester. And he'll be sorely missed
:00:48. > :00:54.by his many fans, me includdd. Among
:00:55. > :00:59.And he'll be sorely missed by his many fans, me includdd.
:01:00. > :01:02.Among my souvenirs: Do I look the part?
:01:03. > :01:12.This, though, is where we rejoin Andrew Ndil.
:01:13. > :01:15.There are big changes afoot in the EU following last month's
:01:16. > :01:17.European elections, not least who'll get the top job
:01:18. > :01:21.But behind the scenes the parties have
:01:22. > :01:25.also been jockeying for position as they try to form the big groups that
:01:26. > :01:29.And UKIP seems to have been struggling to keep its influence
:01:30. > :01:38.Here's Adam to explain how it all works.
:01:39. > :01:43.If you want your party to be a big cheese in the European Parliament,
:01:44. > :01:48.you need to form a political group. By doing this, the party gets more
:01:49. > :01:54.money, more positions on committees and even more speaking rights in the
:01:55. > :01:59.chamber. But the parliament's rules are strict. And to form a group you
:02:00. > :02:03.need a group of 25 MPs from at least seven different countries. For UKIP,
:02:04. > :02:08.the number of MEPs will not be a problem because they already have 24
:02:09. > :02:10.of their own, but the different nationalities are more of a
:02:11. > :02:14.challenge. Nigel Farage was not helped by the Tories stealing -
:02:15. > :02:23.stealing his former Danish and Finnish allies, and the pen pinching
:02:24. > :02:28.his Italian charms. Nigel needs a new charm and fast. He has already
:02:29. > :02:34.signed up Lithuania's order and justice, a free citizen from Prague,
:02:35. > :02:41.and the Dutchman from the reformed political party. The big signing was
:02:42. > :02:45.the 17 members of the Italian Beppe Griego's 5-star movement, but it
:02:46. > :02:49.leaves UKIP short of two more international powers, and with the
:02:50. > :02:52.clock ticking, it looks like his hopes resting on the Swedish
:02:53. > :02:54.Democrats and the Polish new right Congress. They both make their
:02:55. > :03:05.decisions next week. What is the latest? UKIP have enough
:03:06. > :03:10.MEPs with their pals, but they need seven countries, as I understand it.
:03:11. > :03:13.They are not there yet. They are wrapped five countries and need
:03:14. > :03:17.another two. UKIP are being quite buoyant and say they will be meeting
:03:18. > :03:21.MEPs from five countries next week and are pretty confident they will
:03:22. > :03:25.get those countries, but as Adam was saying, the problem UKIP have had is
:03:26. > :03:34.that the Conservatives have nicked two of the parties. That is why they
:03:35. > :03:39.have been struggling, but they say they are confident they will do it.
:03:40. > :03:45.Meanwhile, the Tories new best friends are the German Eurosceptic
:03:46. > :03:47.party, which has put Mrs Merkel s nose out of joint, but we don't
:03:48. > :03:54.quite know whether she really cares or not. I think Cameron has played
:03:55. > :04:03.his hand badly since he committed to pulling out of the EBP. And he
:04:04. > :04:08.should be in there with Angela Merkel and if he needs to make a
:04:09. > :04:14.major renegotiation, he needs to have the Germans onside. Instead
:04:15. > :04:18.there is a breakaway party and its like supporting UKIP. His party are
:04:19. > :04:24.supporting her worst enemy. It certainly causing him a lot of
:04:25. > :04:28.problems, and undermines his negotiating position, but isn't
:04:29. > :04:32.there an honesty that the centre-right group is explicitly
:04:33. > :04:37.Federalist, and the Tories are anything but, so they came out, and
:04:38. > :04:43.Labour are in the Socialist group, which is explicitly Federalist, and
:04:44. > :04:46.they are not Federalist either. If you want support and influence in
:04:47. > :04:50.Europe, you have to trade, and he hasn't done this well. The whole
:04:51. > :04:55.business with who will be the next president, he needs Angela Merkel's
:04:56. > :05:00.support. Without that, it won't happen. He should have been trading
:05:01. > :05:08.behind-the-scenes, but he has exposed himself in public, and if he
:05:09. > :05:11.doesn't win it looks uncertain, and he will be in a position where he
:05:12. > :05:15.has to go back to his own party and say they are not getting anywhere.
:05:16. > :05:21.That is dangerous and takes us closer to the Exeter, which I don't
:05:22. > :05:26.think would want. The danger for Mr Cameron is if it is the president of
:05:27. > :05:29.the commission, he will save you cannot stop a federalist becoming
:05:30. > :05:32.head of the European commission what chance do you have of
:05:33. > :05:40.repatriating lots of powers back to London. There are lots of Tory MPs
:05:41. > :05:45.dying to make the argument. My hunch is that he won't make it. There are
:05:46. > :05:47.too many countries opposed to his presidency and even the country
:05:48. > :05:54.notionally in favour of it, Germany, is failing in youth -- enthusiasm.
:05:55. > :05:59.Angela Merkel cannot be seen to give in to the Brits this. Her own side
:06:00. > :06:07.once it as well, though some reason the German media says it. When she
:06:08. > :06:12.tried to reach out and said to look at the other candidates, she got
:06:13. > :06:18.such abuse on the right wing press from her own country and party she
:06:19. > :06:27.had to retreat. Janan is right that there is opposition to Juncker, but
:06:28. > :06:31.as long as Cameron turns it into an argument about Britain and Europe,
:06:32. > :06:38.he will strengthen the hand of Juncker. Angela Merkel thinks
:06:39. > :06:41.Juncker is inappropriate. She did not like the process, which was a
:06:42. > :06:45.power grab by the European Parliament, but when David Cameron
:06:46. > :06:49.went to the council and said that if I don't get my way, we could leave
:06:50. > :06:56.the EU, that led to the backlash, most significantly from the SPD in
:06:57. > :07:00.Germany. As Tony Blair says, if only David Cameron had made the argument
:07:01. > :07:03.that Juncker is bad for Europe, then he would have found his natural
:07:04. > :07:08.allies would have felt more comfortable following behind. Enough
:07:09. > :07:16.Europe. I want to show you a picture. See what you think of this.
:07:17. > :07:23.When I saw that picture, I thought it was so ludicrous that it had to
:07:24. > :07:26.have been photo shop. Discuss. He is holding it with a certain disdain,
:07:27. > :07:31.looking a bit hangdog. A disastrous picture for Ed Miliband. His
:07:32. > :07:37.strength is authenticity, sincerity and cleverness. And he blows all of
:07:38. > :07:42.that. He was the one who took on Murdoch, very bravely and
:07:43. > :07:47.dangerously, and one, really. Now there he is supporting Murdoch's
:07:48. > :07:50.son. It's a big mistake, not just in Liverpool, where obviously they are
:07:51. > :07:56.particularly incensed. And then he apologises. Sort of apologises and
:07:57. > :08:02.understands why Liverpool feels upset. But it is a fundamental error
:08:03. > :08:05.and I hope he learns from this, that he must absolutely stay true to
:08:06. > :08:12.himself. That's all he's got going for him. Who do we blame? His
:08:13. > :08:21.advisers or himself? In the end himself. Nobody forced him to do it.
:08:22. > :08:29.On this one, he called it wrong It's a sign of the rather the bridal
:08:30. > :08:33.state of the Labour Party is that his candidates were vocal in
:08:34. > :08:40.attacking him doing this. It's a sign of how readable Ed Miliband is
:08:41. > :08:45.at Parliamentary level. I don't think you should have apologised.
:08:46. > :08:54.The mistake he made was associating himself with that newspaper. The
:08:55. > :08:59.mistake was the prior three years when he went too far as portraying
:09:00. > :09:02.the Murdoch empire beyond the pale. He made a case against phone hacking
:09:03. > :09:07.and offences in that regard without going as far as he did with the
:09:08. > :09:11.rhetoric. To do that, and then pose with the Sun newspaper, the
:09:12. > :09:17.juxtaposition is what did for him, not the mere fact of posing with it.
:09:18. > :09:19.Maybe he did not know what he was doing because we were told he
:09:20. > :09:22.doesn't read the British newspapers. It was football, and he
:09:23. > :09:29.has posed with the Sun newspaper before. Mr Cameron and Mr Clegg
:09:30. > :09:33.posed as well. But with the Sun newspaper and football, you tread
:09:34. > :09:36.carefully. That was the mistake You get the impression from the picture
:09:37. > :09:39.that he looks so uncomfortable that you wonder whether there was a full
:09:40. > :09:44.process of consultation that went on within his media operation, within
:09:45. > :09:47.his political operation. Was he fully aware of what would happen
:09:48. > :09:50.question what he looks so incredibly uncomfortable. But at the end of the
:09:51. > :09:56.day, leaders have to take responsibility. It is cultural as
:09:57. > :10:00.well. That picture says, I am down there with the football blokes and
:10:01. > :10:04.you think, you are not. That is not what people will vote for. Be
:10:05. > :10:08.yourself and don't pretend to be something else because it never
:10:09. > :10:14.works. But the polls suggest that the British voters don't yet see Ed
:10:15. > :10:17.Miliband as prime ministerial. The worst thing you can then do is get
:10:18. > :10:22.involved in stunts that are more likely to reinforce that idea than
:10:23. > :10:26.counter it. There was a precedent for it in the last parliament which
:10:27. > :10:31.was Gordon Brown's attempts to feign a populist touch. He did it by
:10:32. > :10:38.telling the contents of his iPod. The Arctic monkeys. It always jarred
:10:39. > :10:42.because he was trying too hard. Not uniquely guilty of, Ed Miliband all
:10:43. > :10:46.the other leaders have done it. At the moment he more vulnerable. Yes,
:10:47. > :10:51.and he is less popular than his party. Labour has quite a popular
:10:52. > :10:55.brand, in a resilient way, in a way they don't with the Tories, yet
:10:56. > :11:00.their leader is a personal problem. The pressure is on him to do stunts
:11:01. > :11:05.like this. Will there be a shadow cabinet reshuffle? Yes, we have to
:11:06. > :11:08.get the cabinet reshuffle out of the way first, and that might come next
:11:09. > :11:11.week, maybe by the time of the summer recess, but the first thing
:11:12. > :11:17.that the prime Minister do is work out who is the UK candidate for the
:11:18. > :11:21.European Commissioner. Is it not the case probably that Ed Balls is
:11:22. > :11:26.becoming semi-detached from the Ed Miliband project? I don't think
:11:27. > :11:30.entirely. Nothing gets agreed without both of the end are green.
:11:31. > :11:35.Ed Balls is controversial. He has great pluses and minuses and is a
:11:36. > :11:39.big figure. Labour doesn't have that many big figures. It's quite hard to
:11:40. > :11:42.think who would be a heavy hitter as a possible Chancellor. He is a
:11:43. > :11:50.convincing chancellor to the future, Love him. He has the heft -- love
:11:51. > :11:55.him or hate him. Any possibility Ed Balls could be moved as shadow
:11:56. > :11:57.chancellor? The timing is convenient because the Scottish referendum ends
:11:58. > :12:02.in the autumn and Alistair Darling becomes a free man, win or lose I
:12:03. > :12:05.don't think Ed Balls will be removed because moving him would be an
:12:06. > :12:08.admission that everything the Labour Party said about the economy to the
:12:09. > :12:11.preceding four years has been a mistake. And you can't do that nine
:12:12. > :12:17.months before a general election. You invite ridicule. But relations
:12:18. > :12:20.between Ed Miliband and Ed Balls are not great at the moment. The Ed
:12:21. > :12:23.Miliband team are very, very suspicious of this new love in
:12:24. > :12:29.between Ed Balls and Peter Mandelson. Mandelson likes to say
:12:30. > :12:32.that he spotted the Ed Balls talents in the original place and appointed
:12:33. > :12:37.him to the Gordon Brown team after the disaster of 1992. But things
:12:38. > :12:44.obviously went awry, and now Ed Balls and Peter Mandelson Avenue
:12:45. > :12:48.Rappaport, and that is with enormous suspicion -- they have a new
:12:49. > :12:51.Rappaport. With good reason because it's about policy. It's about the
:12:52. > :12:56.attitude towards business. Should they be out there saying they will
:12:57. > :13:01.get the tax dodgers, Starbucks, Vodafone, are we going to take on
:13:02. > :13:04.business in a big way? In a way that Ed Miliband has quite bravely said.
:13:05. > :13:09.On the other hand, Ed Balls and Peter Mandelson are saying, hang on,
:13:10. > :13:11.we only won in 1997 by being business friendly. Sorry to rush
:13:12. > :13:13.you. We are running out of time The Daily Politics will be back
:13:14. > :13:17.every day this week at midday, and I'll be back here next Sunday
:13:18. > :13:19.when I'll be joined by the shadow work and pensions
:13:20. > :13:22.secretary Rachel Reeves.Remember if it's Sunday,
:13:23. > :13:54.it's the Sunday Politics. Magnificent. The power base
:13:55. > :13:59.of medieval England. Charles' ceiling was a piece
:14:00. > :14:05.of breathtaking arrogance. You get a sense of the people
:14:06. > :14:13.who made the palaces. as I unlock the secrets
:14:14. > :14:17.of Britain's great palaces.