:00:38. > :00:42.Just two months to go until Scotland decides if it should stay
:00:43. > :00:46.As the campaign heads for the final furlong,
:00:47. > :00:50.what are the issues and arguments that will determine the result?
:00:51. > :00:53.The SNP's deputy leader Nicola Sturgeon joins me live.
:00:54. > :00:57.David Cameron's scheduled a major cabinet reshuffle on Tuesday.
:00:58. > :00:59.Many of those tipped for promotion are women.
:01:00. > :01:03.So have efforts to promote diversity in public life barely started or
:01:04. > :01:12.And don't know whether to support Germany or
:01:13. > :01:22.In the Midlands, it is the fast political guide to the World Cup.
:01:23. > :01:26.In the Midlands, it is the fast show. Faster growth, faster
:01:27. > :01:38.broadband and the It's World Cup final day and
:01:39. > :01:41.as usual the BBC's snagged the Yes, eat your heart out, ITV,
:01:42. > :01:47.because for top football analysis we've got Gary Lineker, Alan Hansen,
:01:48. > :01:50.and Alan Shearer. And
:01:51. > :01:53.for top political analysis you may as well tune in to them too because
:01:54. > :01:57.all we could come up with is Nick David Cameron will reshuffle
:01:58. > :02:07.his cabinet on Tuesday. The Sunday papers are full
:02:08. > :02:10.of stories telling us who'll be in and who'll be out,
:02:11. > :02:12.though they don't really know. The Mail on Sunday has one
:02:13. > :02:15.of the more eye-catching lines, reporting that former defence
:02:16. > :02:17.secretary and right-winger Liam Fox is in line for a return to
:02:18. > :02:20.the political front line. But there's general agreement that
:02:21. > :02:27.women will do well and some of the old men
:02:28. > :02:31.in suits guard will do badly. Here's senior Tory backbencher David
:02:32. > :02:40.Davis speaking to this programme. It's good to make parliament
:02:41. > :02:47.more representative. But you've got to do it
:02:48. > :02:50.in a way that doesn't create injustices, and you can't put people
:02:51. > :02:54.in a job who can't do the job. And I've seen that too over
:02:55. > :03:02.the last 20 years, people being accelerated too far too fast
:03:03. > :03:04.and they come to a screeching halt where they have to
:03:05. > :03:22.catch up with themselves. I am not going to give an example.
:03:23. > :03:28.Is this not a bit cynical? He is going to promote these women into
:03:29. > :03:33.cabinet positions, but they will not be able to do anything. I am
:03:34. > :03:40.sceptical of Cabinet reshuffle. It is an un-written pact in that the
:03:41. > :03:44.media and the government have a great interest in talking it up. The
:03:45. > :03:50.government says, haven't we refreshed ourselves? Generally it
:03:51. > :03:54.doesn't refresh the government. David Cameron wants to send out a
:03:55. > :04:01.new signal. You're going to see the old guard getting a P 45 and you
:04:02. > :04:08.will see a lot of women come in and a lot of younger men. We will find
:04:09. > :04:14.there will be a lot of resignations. A lot of, dear Prime Minister, as I
:04:15. > :04:18.told you 18 months ago, I want to move on. Because the Conservatives
:04:19. > :04:23.have this perception of not being very good with women and not being
:04:24. > :04:28.good with black and ethnic minority voters, they are going to want to do
:04:29. > :04:34.something about that. Why did he not do it before? This reshuffle might
:04:35. > :04:40.be the triumph of the a list. A lot of the women coming through the
:04:41. > :04:44.ranks have been from the a list which was a half measure because
:04:45. > :04:50.they knew they could not bring all of them in. You are going to see
:04:51. > :04:54.more women but that is a result of a long-term strategy. David Cameron is
:04:55. > :04:59.not the world's most raging feminist. He is doing this for
:05:00. > :05:05.practical reasons. He knows he has an image problem for the party and
:05:06. > :05:13.he has to solve it. He was stung by that picture of the all-male bench
:05:14. > :05:16.at Prime Minister's Questions because visibly it gave you the
:05:17. > :05:22.problem that you have been talking about. I do not think he has allowed
:05:23. > :05:26.it to be all-male since that embarrassing image. I can understand
:05:27. > :05:29.the criticism made of this approach if it was the case that all the
:05:30. > :05:37.women being promoted by talentless but you have to be very harsh to
:05:38. > :05:51.look at them and say that they would have much less to offer than the
:05:52. > :05:55.likes of Andrew Lansley. You can be pro-feminist. The tests for David
:05:56. > :05:59.Cameron is that having raised expectations he has to give them
:06:00. > :06:04.substantial jobs. They have to be given departments to run or big
:06:05. > :06:07.portfolios to carry. If they are given media campaign positions in
:06:08. > :06:15.the run-up to the election it looks perfunctorily. He is under some
:06:16. > :06:21.trouble to perhaps suggest a female commissioner to the European Union
:06:22. > :06:26.Commission. Jean-Claude Juncker has made clear that if he proposes a
:06:27. > :06:35.woman candidate they will get a better job. Saying they would like
:06:36. > :06:39.ten out of the 28 to be women. We are going to get the name of the
:06:40. > :06:48.British candidate at the same time as the reshuffle. The first
:06:49. > :06:52.face-to-face meeting, he will be able to put a name. There are other
:06:53. > :07:04.names in the frame. People like Archie Norman. That come from? His
:07:05. > :07:07.name is in the frame. There would be great scepticism of giving it to
:07:08. > :07:11.Andrew Lansley. People would think he was the man who mucked up the
:07:12. > :07:20.reform of the NHS. Who is it going to be? Either a woman or a man. I
:07:21. > :07:26.would not be surprised if they go for someone believe dynamic. Someone
:07:27. > :07:32.who would square the party. Would that not mean a by-election? It
:07:33. > :07:38.might. She is a high profile Eurosceptic. She is a very competent
:07:39. > :07:43.former banker. It would be the smart choice. I have no idea but my
:07:44. > :07:51.favourite rumour is Michael Howard. That had some legs for a while.
:07:52. > :07:56.The Mystic Megs of Fleet Street predict with confidence that the PM
:07:57. > :07:57.is going to promote more women in his cabinet reshuffle.
:07:58. > :08:00.The move can be seen as part of a move across British public life
:08:01. > :08:03.to do more to make our institutions less male and less white.
:08:04. > :08:05.But as the list of schemes to encourage diversity
:08:06. > :08:16.grows ever-longer, have we abandoned the idea of appointment by merit?
:08:17. > :08:25.Tunnelling. Hard hats, and all for new trains. It does not get more
:08:26. > :08:27.macho than the Crossrail project. When Crossrail looked at the
:08:28. > :08:38.construction industry they realise that less than 20% was made up
:08:39. > :08:39.construction industry they realise women and they asked, can we fix it?
:08:40. > :08:45.They are trying with a recruitment drive that has brought in female
:08:46. > :08:49.engineers like this woman. She even has a tunnel named after her. Having
:08:50. > :08:53.more female engineers and construction brings a bigger range
:08:54. > :08:58.of opinions, a bigger range of ideas, more diversity, into the
:08:59. > :09:02.industry, and makes it better as a whole. It is the issue being
:09:03. > :09:07.grappled in another male dominated workplace, the Cabinet. There is
:09:08. > :09:11.about to be a reach shuffle and the rumour is David Cameron is going to
:09:12. > :09:16.promote a lot of female ministers. It was a lack of promotion that
:09:17. > :09:20.annoyed Harriet Harman this week. She claimed Gordon Brown did not
:09:21. > :09:25.make her Deputy Prime Minister because she was a woman. It was
:09:26. > :09:29.strange that in a hard-fought highly contested election to be deputy
:09:30. > :09:33.leader of the Labour Party, and having won against men in the
:09:34. > :09:36.Cabinet, to succeed to be deputy leader of the Labour Party I
:09:37. > :09:41.discovered that I was not to be appointed as Deputy Prime Minister.
:09:42. > :09:48.For women in this country, no matter how able they are, the matter how
:09:49. > :09:52.hard they might work, they are still not equal. There are initiatives to
:09:53. > :09:58.make the world feel more equal. In the City the EU wants a quarter for
:09:59. > :10:03.women in the boardroom but that goal of making 40% of the top floor
:10:04. > :10:09.female. At the BBC the boss of the TV division says no panel show
:10:10. > :10:14.should ever be all-male. In the ever glamorous movie business the British
:10:15. > :10:19.film Institute announced their new thematic system to get lottery
:10:20. > :10:25.funding projects improving diversity on screen and off and helping social
:10:26. > :10:30.mobility. Employers like Crossrail are not allowed to positively
:10:31. > :10:35.discriminate but under the quality act of 2010 if two candidate for a
:10:36. > :10:38.job are just as good you are allowed to base your decision on
:10:39. > :10:44.characteristics like race, sexuality and gender. Some worry it has
:10:45. > :10:52.chipped away at the idea of hiring on merit. A woman and three men
:10:53. > :10:55.going for a job, two of the men are really good and the woman is not
:10:56. > :11:03.quite as good but she gets the job anyway. That will create injustice,
:11:04. > :11:10.a feeling that she did not deserve the job, resentment. It does not
:11:11. > :11:16.advance equality in society at all. On this project they want to leave a
:11:17. > :11:20.concrete legacy of a more diverse construction industry. The question
:11:21. > :11:31.is, what tools do you use when it comes to the rest of society?
:11:32. > :11:33.I'm joined now by Yasmin Alibhai-Brown,
:11:34. > :11:36.a columnist for the Independent, and by Munira Mirza, the deputy
:11:37. > :11:43.mayor of London responsible for education and culture.
:11:44. > :11:51.Cabinet wee shovel coming up punches though. Should David Cameron be
:11:52. > :11:59.promoting women? He is going to do it anyway. He should have a long
:12:00. > :12:03.time ago. It does not feel quite right that a few months before the
:12:04. > :12:08.election it would do the party a lot of good to be seen as a party
:12:09. > :12:14.properly reflective of the entire population. He should promote women
:12:15. > :12:17.because they are women? I think he should think about lots of different
:12:18. > :12:24.factors, whether the people he wants promote have proven themselves in
:12:25. > :12:27.their current reefs, whether they are good performers in the media,
:12:28. > :12:32.whether they represent different parts of the party, but the main
:12:33. > :12:37.principle is to promote on basis of merit. There are many talented women
:12:38. > :12:43.who fill that description. It should be that merit is the important thing
:12:44. > :12:45.rather than what you were born with. The thing about positive
:12:46. > :12:52.discrimination as it flies in the face of that kind of principle. You
:12:53. > :12:54.are shaking your head. We have always had positive discrimination.
:12:55. > :13:01.Men of a certain class have appointed in their own image because
:13:02. > :13:06.they feel most comfortable with that. We have had unspoken positive
:13:07. > :13:12.discrimination in this country and every other country throughout
:13:13. > :13:18.history. We are asking as women, all minorities, let us get into the same
:13:19. > :13:22.game. What do you say? You cannot solve the racism or the sexism of
:13:23. > :13:28.the past by more racism and sexism. It is not the past. There are
:13:29. > :13:33.complex reasons why a smaller number of women will appear in certain
:13:34. > :13:37.industries. It has a lot to do with childcare, education, expected. You
:13:38. > :13:43.cannot short cut that by setting a target. That is not how you achieve
:13:44. > :13:45.equality. Things are changing and more women are appearing in
:13:46. > :13:50.engineering and so on but it will take time. My worry is that these
:13:51. > :13:53.kinds of measures are counter-productive and undermine the
:13:54. > :13:54.perception that women can do it on their own merit rather
:13:55. > :13:58.counter-productive and undermine the perception that women can do it than
:13:59. > :14:02.because they need a helping hand. It is not a helping hand. It is to say,
:14:03. > :14:13.we are as good as men and these hidden barriers. Dot. Either they
:14:14. > :14:15.are not as good or they do not want it, which is just how we persuade
:14:16. > :14:21.are not as good or they do not want it, which ourselves that it is not
:14:22. > :14:26.happening, or there are barriers. How we judge meritocracy is at the
:14:27. > :14:33.heart of it. Are lots of industries won there are not that many women,
:14:34. > :14:39.such as engineering. We need more engineers generally. I think it is
:14:40. > :14:46.fine to try to encourage more women to study that subject. By setting a
:14:47. > :14:55.target you put pressure on an organisation. You tried to ignore
:14:56. > :15:18.the complex reasons why women do not go into those sectors. I think an
:15:19. > :15:23.all-female short list achieved miracle in Parliament. This is
:15:24. > :15:27.following up from having an injection of women coming up because
:15:28. > :15:34.the system was changed and a large percentage of women went into
:15:35. > :15:41.Parliament under the all-female short list were brilliant, so why
:15:42. > :15:47.not? So if the Prime Minister is mailed the Deputy Prime Minister has
:15:48. > :15:56.to be female and vice versa? Yes, absolutely, 50-50. We need to
:15:57. > :16:03.reflect the population. If we want to play this as a symbolic gesture,
:16:04. > :16:07.ideally we should have one of each. Why should a man get the job if you
:16:08. > :16:17.have a great female prime minister and a great female Deputy Prime
:16:18. > :16:25.Minister? I personally wouldn't mind this. I hear the disgruntled man and
:16:26. > :16:30.I want to come -- them to come with us. You're choosing people on the
:16:31. > :16:37.basis of traits they were born with. Are there too many Indian
:16:38. > :16:41.doctors in the NHS? I would argue not. Given that we tend to have male
:16:42. > :16:46.prime ministers rather than female ones, and we don't see another
:16:47. > :16:56.female one coming down the pipe very quickly... In the time before women
:16:57. > :17:00.short lists by the way. If you had a male prime minister with a female
:17:01. > :17:07.Deputy Prime Minister, wouldn't that give some balance? Why women? Why
:17:08. > :17:12.not working class person, which group do you prioritise? I would go
:17:13. > :17:15.with you that we need something fundamental to change. This idea
:17:16. > :17:19.that what we have now is a reflection of a genuine meritocracy
:17:20. > :17:22.is highly questionable. I would argue that when you look at the
:17:23. > :17:24.statistics things are changing. argue that when you look at the
:17:25. > :17:29.statistics things There are more women appearing in parts of public
:17:30. > :17:36.life, that is a long-term trend, but if you are trying to appoint people
:17:37. > :17:41.on what they were born with... That is not the only reason but it is an
:17:42. > :17:47.additional reason. She has to be able to do the job, obviously. I am
:17:48. > :17:51.saying the policy of hazard to discrimination explicitly state that
:17:52. > :17:55.you should choose somebody who is female because they are female. At
:17:56. > :18:01.the moment there is already enough suspicion about women who are
:18:02. > :18:05.successful to get to the senior position and if you institutionalise
:18:06. > :18:11.it you reinforce that suspicion. Harriet Harman is still complaining
:18:12. > :18:16.women are not being treated fairly. I think the policy reinforces the
:18:17. > :18:22.prejudice that women are not getting there because they are treated on
:18:23. > :18:26.the same basis. Although you may not want to have the all-female short
:18:27. > :18:31.list forever, wasn't it the kind of shock to the system that made a
:18:32. > :18:39.visible change in female representation, which the Tory side
:18:40. > :18:44.hasn't got? Of course it will work short-term but longer term it has a
:18:45. > :18:48.very degrading effect on the principle of equality and the fact
:18:49. > :18:52.Harriet Harman is saying she wasn't treated equally, whether it is true
:18:53. > :19:01.or not, the perception is still there. A number of women find this
:19:02. > :19:06.position must be reserved for a woman lying patronising, and
:19:07. > :19:14.speaking of patronising women, you spoken your Independent column, she
:19:15. > :19:19.presses all of the buttons for white people... Was that patronising and
:19:20. > :19:24.offensive? Probably. I wrote it because I felt that at the time but
:19:25. > :19:31.the point is that I was a token when I was appointed. The paper brought
:19:32. > :19:36.me in because I was a woman and I was a muslin or whatever. You are
:19:37. > :19:49.not writing about yourself. I was writing... It doesn't mean you don't
:19:50. > :19:57.criticise other women. We absolutely have to be tough, Manira is tough
:19:58. > :20:03.and so am I. Do you want to take back what you wrote? No. Do you
:20:04. > :20:10.really think positive discrimination has gone too far? I think there is
:20:11. > :20:15.already a suspicion out there that in certain sectors women are being
:20:16. > :20:19.promoted for the wrong reasons or ethnic minorities are being promoted
:20:20. > :20:25.for the wrong reasons. That is a shame and my worry is that by tying
:20:26. > :20:30.funding to your ethnicity or your gender, by saying you will get a
:20:31. > :20:34.promotion if you check that box, but you feel that resentment and
:20:35. > :20:44.prejudice and undermine the case for inequality. I wanted to be treated
:20:45. > :20:50.equally, because I am capable of doing that job. Only two months to
:20:51. > :20:59.go before Scotland takes its biggest constitutional decision in 300 years
:21:00. > :21:05.- should it quit or stay with the UK? For some in Scotland campaign
:21:06. > :21:11.has been going on forever. What has been the impact on the campaign to
:21:12. > :21:14.date? Alex Salmond says Scotland would
:21:15. > :21:19.remain part of the European Union with sterling as its currency in a
:21:20. > :21:24.monetary union with the rest of the UK, but he has also promised more
:21:25. > :21:31.public spending, increased child care provision and free personal
:21:32. > :21:38.care for the elderly. The SNP claims it would leave people better off by
:21:39. > :21:44.?1000 though that partly depends on the price of oil. With the Better
:21:45. > :21:49.Together arguing against independence, it has naturally been
:21:50. > :21:56.attacking the SNP on all fronts. George Osborne says there will be no
:21:57. > :22:01.monetary union. President Barroso told the BBC it would be extremely
:22:02. > :22:12.difficult for Scotland to join the EU after a yes vote. His successor
:22:13. > :22:22.this week said he agreed. Unions claim Scotland benefit by ?1400 by
:22:23. > :22:28.being part of the UK. A poll this morning shows a significant lead of
:22:29. > :22:35.57% for the no campaign, leaving the SNP to claim it will go their way in
:22:36. > :22:39.the last ten weeks. Nicola Sturgeon, the Deputy First Minister of
:22:40. > :22:45.Scotland, joins me now. You want an independent Scotland to keep the
:22:46. > :22:50.pound, stay in NATO, stay in the EU, Scotland already has all of that
:22:51. > :22:57.but you cannot guarantee it would have any of it in an independent
:22:58. > :23:01.Scotland, why take the risk? All of these things should be the case
:23:02. > :23:07.because they are in the best interests of Scotland and the rest
:23:08. > :23:13.of the UK but we want the powers to enable us to grow our economy
:23:14. > :23:18.faster, to be productive, and overtime increased the prosperity of
:23:19. > :23:22.people living in Scotland. We also want powers over our social security
:23:23. > :23:29.system so that we can create a system that meets our needs, one
:23:30. > :23:32.that also has a safety net for the most vulnerable people in our
:23:33. > :23:39.society. Independence is about letting us decide our own
:23:40. > :23:43.priorities. You didn't answer my question, you cannot guarantee you
:23:44. > :23:48.would be able to keep the pound within a monetary union, stay in
:23:49. > :23:53.NATO and the EU, you cannot guarantee you could produce any of
:23:54. > :23:58.these things, correct? I would argue that we can because these things are
:23:59. > :24:04.also in the interest of the rest of the UK. No country can be prevented
:24:05. > :24:09.from using the pound, I suggest we use that within a formal monetary
:24:10. > :24:13.union. We have had the UK minister quoted in the Guardian saying the
:24:14. > :24:18.position of the UK Government right now is one based on campaign
:24:19. > :24:25.rhetoric and following a yes vote, of course there would be a currency
:24:26. > :24:29.union. Who is that minister? The Minister is unnamed, but
:24:30. > :24:35.nevertheless that story in the Guardian was a solid one and not
:24:36. > :24:40.substantially denied. So you are basing your monetary policy on one
:24:41. > :24:50.on named minister in one story? Basing it on Common sense because
:24:51. > :24:53.monetary union would be in the best interests for Scotland but also
:24:54. > :24:59.overwhelmingly in the interests of the rest of the UK, given their
:25:00. > :25:06.trading relationship with Scotland and the contribution Scotland's
:25:07. > :25:12.exports make. We are having a very good debate and the UK Government
:25:13. > :25:21.and the no campaign, and this is not a criticism, want to talk up in --
:25:22. > :25:27.uncertainty to make people feel scared, but after independence there
:25:28. > :25:30.will be constructed process of negotiation. Let's stick with the
:25:31. > :25:34.monetary union because most economists agree it would be very
:25:35. > :25:39.good for an independent Scotland to have a monetary union but George
:25:40. > :25:44.Osborne, Ed Balls, Danny Alexander are unequivocal, they say you won't
:25:45. > :25:50.get it. You claim they are bluffing but again you cannot guarantee that
:25:51. > :25:54.so why the risk? I would say the benefits of independence are
:25:55. > :25:58.substantial but I would also say to George Osborne and his counterparts
:25:59. > :26:02.in the other parties that it would be a very brave Chancellor that says
:26:03. > :26:07.to businesses in the rest of the UK that they have to incur unnecessary
:26:08. > :26:09.additional transaction costs of half a very brave Chancellor that says to
:26:10. > :26:13.businesses in the rest of the UK that they have to incur unnecessary
:26:14. > :26:18.additional transaction costs of half. What we are doing is making a
:26:19. > :26:23.case that is based on common sense and voters in Scotland will listen
:26:24. > :26:28.to that case being put forward by the other side as well, and they
:26:29. > :26:35.will come to a judgement of the common-sense position. Let's look at
:26:36. > :26:44.EU membership because you haven't been able to guarantee the monetary
:26:45. > :26:49.union. When President Barroso said that a seamless transition to EU
:26:50. > :26:53.membership for an independent Scotland was anything but certain,
:26:54. > :27:00.and one said it could even be impossible, you dismissed him
:27:01. > :27:09.because he was standing down, but been -- venue EU president says the
:27:10. > :27:13.same, do you dismissed him? What we are doing... I should say at the
:27:14. > :27:18.outset of this, we have said repeatedly to the UK Government,
:27:19. > :27:23.let's go jointly and ask for a formal opinion on the EU
:27:24. > :27:29.commission. The EU commission have said they will only do that at this
:27:30. > :27:35.stage if the UK Government ask for it, they are point blank refusing to
:27:36. > :27:41.do that, you have to ask why? It is in their interests to talk up
:27:42. > :27:45.uncertainty. Scotland is an integral part of the European Union, we have
:27:46. > :27:51.been for 40 years, we comply with the rules and regulations... Mr
:27:52. > :27:58.Juncker knows all of that but he still says it will be anything but a
:27:59. > :28:02.seamless transition. He said you could not join the European Union by
:28:03. > :28:16.sending a letter, that is not our proposal. We set down a robust
:28:17. > :28:21.proposal and the timescale we think is reasonable under these
:28:22. > :28:26.circumstances. There are many nationals of other states living in
:28:27. > :28:30.Scotland right now, if we were to be outside of the European Union for
:28:31. > :28:34.any period of time, something the current treaty doesn't even provide
:28:35. > :28:38.for, they would lose their right to stay here. The interests of Scotland
:28:39. > :28:43.and the interests of European Union are in favour of a seamless
:28:44. > :28:45.transition. It comes down to common sense and people in Scotland will
:28:46. > :28:48.make sense and people in Scotland will
:28:49. > :28:55.their own judgement on who is talking the common-sense. What about
:28:56. > :29:00.NATO, two years ago you told Newsnight the SNP's position is that
:29:01. > :29:06.we wouldn't stay in NATO. We had a democratic debate, we looked at
:29:07. > :29:09.whether it would be in the interests of an independent Scotland, which
:29:10. > :29:18.forms a significant part of the territory of the North Atlantic and
:29:19. > :29:26.the party changed its mind. It did so in a thoroughly democratic way.
:29:27. > :29:37.That is the nature of democracy. Would you accept the protection of
:29:38. > :29:42.the NATO nuclear umbrella? There is no doubt the SNP's position is that
:29:43. > :29:49.we do not want nuclear weapons in Scotland. That is not what I asked.
:29:50. > :29:54.The world rid themselves of nuclear weapons. One of the interesting
:29:55. > :30:00.point is of the 28 member countries of Natal 25 do not have nuclear
:30:01. > :30:09.weapons. An independent Scotland... I asked if you would accept the
:30:10. > :30:15.nuclear umbrella. The key feature of NATO's military dog train is now
:30:16. > :30:23.clear shrike. We would accept the basis of which NATO is founded but
:30:24. > :30:26.we would argue two things. We want Trident removed from Scotland rather
:30:27. > :30:32.than have a situation where might we are spending ?100 billion over the
:30:33. > :30:34.next generation replacing Trident and we would argue within the
:30:35. > :30:40.international community that the world should move much more quickly
:30:41. > :30:43.to rid itself of nuclear weapons. That is the principal position and
:30:44. > :30:50.won the SNP has held consistently for many years. You would get rid of
:30:51. > :30:55.one of the key parts of the NATO deterrent based in Scotland. You
:30:56. > :31:01.would kick that out. You would not accept all of the club rules because
:31:02. > :31:06.you do not like the idea of nuclear. Why would they like a member like
:31:07. > :31:10.you in? Because Scotland is a significant part of the territory of
:31:11. > :31:15.the North Atlantic. You do not subscribe to the rules. 25 of the
:31:16. > :31:24.member states of NATO are non-nuclear members. You are saying
:31:25. > :31:29.you do not follow the doctrine. NATO has said it wants to move away from
:31:30. > :31:33.reliance on nuclear weapons. An independent Scotland would be
:31:34. > :31:38.entering the majority mainstream of NATO as a country that did not have
:31:39. > :31:41.nuclear weapons. By leading by example our moral authority and
:31:42. > :31:48.encouraging others to do likewise would be increased. Money and oil,
:31:49. > :31:51.the finance minister has said that an independent Scotland would
:31:52. > :31:56.increase public spending by 3% a year. He would pay for that by
:31:57. > :32:00.borrowing. Your First Minister says he is going to stash money in an oil
:32:01. > :32:09.fund. You're going to borrow and save. How does that work? There are
:32:10. > :32:12.two points. Firstly in terms of the outlook for finances and what is one
:32:13. > :32:17.of the central debates of this referendum campaign, austerity that
:32:18. > :32:23.we know will continue if we stay as part of the Westminster system
:32:24. > :32:28.versus prosperity. The economy can afford a higher level of increase in
:32:29. > :32:33.public spending while we continue to have deficit levels at a sustainable
:32:34. > :32:39.level. What is the point of borrowing and saving at the same
:32:40. > :32:41.time? People who have a mortgage and the savings account would not
:32:42. > :32:48.themselves what the wisdom of that is. This is based on recommendations
:32:49. > :32:53.of our expert fiscal Commission that as borrowing reduces to sustainable
:32:54. > :32:58.levels it makes sense to start saving a proportion of our oil
:32:59. > :33:04.wealth. In Norway, which has many similarities to Scotland, they have
:33:05. > :33:09.an oil fund worth ?500 billion. Scotland is part of the Westminster
:33:10. > :33:16.system is sitting on a share of UK debt. We can continue to allow our
:33:17. > :33:19.oil wealth, our vast oil wealth, to be mismanaged or we can decide we
:33:20. > :33:26.are going to manage that resource better in the years to come. Your
:33:27. > :33:29.figures do not add up unless you are about oil prices and revenue and you
:33:30. > :33:33.have been consistently wrong in your predictions. Last year you forecast
:33:34. > :33:43.that revenues would be the .7 billion more than they actually work
:33:44. > :33:49.-- 3.7 billion. The cost of the Scottish school system gone. There
:33:50. > :33:52.were particular reasons for that in terms of interruption to production
:33:53. > :33:59.and bigger levels of investment. Used ill have to find the money. Let
:34:00. > :34:03.me explain. They are based on robust assumptions, firstly a production
:34:04. > :34:07.estimates that is in line with the estimates of the oil and gas
:34:08. > :34:14.industry. Use of figures that are based on production of 10 billion
:34:15. > :34:19.barrels of oil. Oil and gas has been wrong as well. It is 24 billion left
:34:20. > :34:23.to be recovered. That is what is in the UK Government's oil and gas
:34:24. > :34:30.strategy so production in line with industry estimates and an oil price
:34:31. > :34:36.of $110 per barrel which is flat in cash terms would be a real terms
:34:37. > :34:40.reduction. The Department of energy is estimating $128 per barrel so our
:34:41. > :34:46.estimate compared to that is cautious. These are robust estimates
:34:47. > :34:53.based on robust assumptions. Except they have been wrong. Finally, we
:34:54. > :34:57.hear a lot from you and your fellow nationalists, you want a
:34:58. > :35:02.Scandinavian style social democracy, you know how to spend the money but
:35:03. > :35:06.you never tell us about social democratic levels of taxation. Also
:35:07. > :35:13.should grizzlies have higher levels of tax in Scotland does at the
:35:14. > :35:21.moment -- all social grizzlies. I want a Scottish style of social
:35:22. > :35:25.democracy. Free education, free medicines and balancing the books
:35:26. > :35:29.every single year. We want to get more people into work in Scotland,
:35:30. > :35:32.raise the level of distribution in the Labour market and make the
:35:33. > :35:39.economy more productive so we are raising the overall tax revenue.
:35:40. > :35:41.Over the last 33 years we have generated more taxpayer head of
:35:42. > :35:49.population than is the case and the rest of the UK. Those last 33 years,
:35:50. > :35:53.some of those years oil prices would have been high and in others they
:35:54. > :35:58.would have been law but we take different decisions. A report showed
:35:59. > :36:03.that if we go as part of the Westminster system down the plate --
:36:04. > :36:09.route of replacing Trident then the cost will be as high as ?4 billion
:36:10. > :36:14.every year. Our share of that is the hundred million pounds a year. Let
:36:15. > :36:18.us get access to our own resources so we can make different and better
:36:19. > :36:24.decisions about how to spend the resources we have. You are promising
:36:25. > :36:29.Scandinavian style social democratic levels of public spending but you
:36:30. > :36:36.say you will not need a top rate of tax of 56% which is what Scandinavia
:36:37. > :36:42.has, that all 25%, which is what Scandinavia has and VAT of 15%. You
:36:43. > :36:46.are going to have the spending but none of the taxes that make it
:36:47. > :36:51.possible in Scandinavia. For mischievous reasons you are met --
:36:52. > :36:57.misrepresenting what I am saying. The Scottish economy can afford it
:36:58. > :37:01.and we want to generate more wealth in our economy. We want to use the
:37:02. > :37:06.existing resources Scotland has. We are the 14th richest country in the
:37:07. > :37:12.world in terms of what we produce. We do not want to be wasting
:37:13. > :37:16.resources. We want to be spending resources on the things that other
:37:17. > :37:19.priority for the people of Scotland. These are the benefits and the
:37:20. > :37:22.opportunities really get if we take the opportunity of voting yes and
:37:23. > :37:33.becoming independent. Hello once again from the Midlands.
:37:34. > :37:44.I'm Patrick Burns. And both our guests today were
:37:45. > :37:49.high achievers at an early age. Oxford`educated, they had successful
:37:50. > :37:53.careers before entering Parliament. Oh, dear.
:37:54. > :37:55.Where did it all go wrong? She's now the Labour MP
:37:56. > :38:00.for Birmingham Ladywood John Hemming was a pioneer of the
:38:01. > :38:07.information technology industry. He's now the Liberal Democrat MP
:38:08. > :38:12.for Birmingham Yardley. We begin with Parliament under
:38:13. > :38:19.a pall of suspicion, yet again. This time, allegations of historic
:38:20. > :38:23.child abuse, and of a so`called establishment cover`up which some
:38:24. > :38:26.MPs, including John Hemming, He was one
:38:27. > :38:31.of the first MPs to call for a full public inquiry, along with the
:38:32. > :38:36.West Bromwich East MP, Tom Watson. He's been highlighting these
:38:37. > :38:39.issues for two years or more. Meantime, a former West Mercia
:38:40. > :38:44.Police detective, Terry Shutt, has told us he believes a list of names,
:38:45. > :38:47.found while investigating the notorious paedophile Peter Righton
:38:48. > :38:51.in Worcestershire in the 1990s, And a retired Hereford and
:38:52. > :38:56.Worcester Child Protection Manager says the allegations involve large
:38:57. > :39:02.numbers of high profile figures. I would say that we are looking
:39:03. > :39:06.at upwards of 20 and certainly a much larger number of people that
:39:07. > :39:10.have known about it and done nothing about it who were in a
:39:11. > :39:14.position to do something about it. We are looking at the Lord's,
:39:15. > :39:17.the Commons, the judiciary, all institutions where there will be
:39:18. > :39:21.a small percentage of paedophiles and a slightly larger percentage of
:39:22. > :39:26.people who have known about it and felt in terms of their own
:39:27. > :39:31.self`interest and self`preservation and for party political reasons it
:39:32. > :39:34.was safer for them to cover it up Peter McKelvie was talking to
:39:35. > :39:39.the BBC's Tom Symonds. Now Theresa May has ordered two
:39:40. > :39:43.inquiries ` one into the original handling of the issue by the
:39:44. > :39:46.Home Office, the other, a so`called Hillsborough`style inquiry,
:39:47. > :39:49.into the allegations themselves. John, do these measures by the
:39:50. > :39:53.Home Secretary satisfy the sort of My own view is that Baroness
:39:54. > :39:59.Butler`Sloss is a safe pair of hands, fully fledged member of the
:40:00. > :40:02.establishment who will be ideal for Stuart Syvret, who was
:40:03. > :40:07.the health minister in Jersey, and it is important, the link
:40:08. > :40:11.between Jersey and the UK, when he Leah McGrath Goodman was an American
:40:12. > :40:16.journalist who came to investigate the issue and she was banned
:40:17. > :40:20.from the UK in 2011, and then more recently she was arrested
:40:21. > :40:24.in Heathrow airport to stop her In a nutshell, you suspect
:40:25. > :40:31.a cover`up is still going on. I've identified with
:40:32. > :40:34.Leah McGrath Goodman an example of something this decade where
:40:35. > :40:38.efforts are being made to stop her looking at things because she is
:40:39. > :40:42.getting too close to the issue. What do you think it will
:40:43. > :40:47.take to satisfy public I am pleased we have
:40:48. > :40:53.a Hillsborough`style enquiry. In a way, the scrutiny and
:40:54. > :40:57.the level of scrutiny and the amount of forensic work that is being done
:40:58. > :41:01.by people outside the police authorities, by MPs and others,
:41:02. > :41:05.I think has helped shine more of a light on what has been going on
:41:06. > :41:10.and asks those questions and in that respect I am less concerned
:41:11. > :41:14.about the capacity for anyone to continue to engage in a cover`up,
:41:15. > :41:18.and we have seen the outcry over the People will not just accept
:41:19. > :41:24.that things have gone missing or People are prepared to carry
:41:25. > :41:29.on asking questions. As a barrister you know
:41:30. > :41:33.the difference between hard evidence We have had a lot of the latter
:41:34. > :41:39.and not much categorical, The set`up of the enquiry
:41:40. > :41:45.and the fact it is going along the panel type of enquiry
:41:46. > :41:50.enables those who are looking at this, the experts, to be able to,
:41:51. > :41:57.outside of the judicial process, get We have had a lot of claims,
:41:58. > :42:05.we need to get hard evidence, but we need to shine a light
:42:06. > :42:10.on cover`up and that is difficult John, looking at the political
:42:11. > :42:14.fallout, the last general election was under the cloud of
:42:15. > :42:17.the parliamentary expenses scandal. Could we be running up to
:42:18. > :42:21.a general election clouded It is more of a challenge
:42:22. > :42:25.against the establishment. The establishment also includes some
:42:26. > :42:28.elements of the judiciary so it is the willingness to do that,
:42:29. > :42:32.and Tom Watson has done a good job. This is an all`party operation
:42:33. > :42:34.trying to get to the truth of things that happened in the past
:42:35. > :42:38.and give confidence to people who The sad thing is that many
:42:39. > :42:44.of them do not have confidence This could also turn out to be
:42:45. > :42:51.very long and drawn out and go long beyond the date of the next
:42:52. > :42:57.election before we get clarity. It has to take as long
:42:58. > :43:03.as it takes to get the clarity we In the last few years we have seen
:43:04. > :43:08.a spate of stories which have shaken faith the British
:43:09. > :43:11.public have in important institutions, and I think that has
:43:12. > :43:13.been damaging so whatever it takes It has been far too easy to
:43:14. > :43:18.cover things up over time. Things are going on at the moment,
:43:19. > :43:22.last week on Brazilian television, as soon
:43:23. > :43:24.as they did an interview they got the threat of an injunction.
:43:25. > :43:27.Those things are still going on. For the moment, thank you both.
:43:28. > :43:34.Now, the story so far. Under Labour, one giant regional
:43:35. > :43:36.development agency, Advantage West Midlands, was set up to regenerate
:43:37. > :43:40.our economy, only for the Coalition to replace it with six smaller local
:43:41. > :43:45.enterprise partnerships. Now the Government has given
:43:46. > :43:48.them growth funding worth But that's significantly less
:43:49. > :43:55.than the old development David Cameron, at Halesowen College
:43:56. > :44:04.to see how further and higher Job creation, transport,
:44:05. > :44:09.infrastructure and house`building projects ` they were all in the wish
:44:10. > :44:13.lists submitted to Government Mr Cameron told me it was
:44:14. > :44:19.a boost for local decision`making. This is the end of the Whitehall
:44:20. > :44:22.knows best culture. This is saying to local areas,
:44:23. > :44:26.here are the money and the powers, now what can you bring forward to
:44:27. > :44:31.drive growth in your area? Telford's growth package,
:44:32. > :44:34.Wolverhampton's rebuilt railway station, Birmingham's Metro tram
:44:35. > :44:38.extension and Coventry's city centre They are all direct beneficiaries
:44:39. > :44:42.of gross deals, but Labour say they would be more
:44:43. > :44:46.ambitious with more powers for local The former development agencies they
:44:47. > :44:54.set up certainly had more to spend. During the 13 years of Advantage
:44:55. > :44:57.West Midlands, it channelled ?3 Over the next six years,
:44:58. > :45:06.the six West Midlands LEPs will share ?775 million ` an average
:45:07. > :45:13.of around ?129 million a year. A growth fund it may be, but the
:45:14. > :45:19.overall budget for it is shrinking. Ministers say it's not how much
:45:20. > :45:22.money, it's what you do with it. Local Enterprise Partnerships are
:45:23. > :45:25.more truly local than the development agencies, they say,
:45:26. > :45:29.and better`placed to identify the They say this is funding to create
:45:30. > :45:36.around 40,000 jobs and it will bring 13,000 new homes
:45:37. > :45:41.to our part of the country. And we're also joined here today
:45:42. > :45:45.by Peter Pawsey, the chairman of the Worcestershire
:45:46. > :45:49.Local Enterprise Partnership. He has long experience in the
:45:50. > :45:52.construction and property sectors. Peter is also the chairman of
:45:53. > :45:56.Robert West engineering. You have experience with
:45:57. > :46:00.Advantage West Midlands and Local Enterprise Partnerships, so you are
:46:01. > :46:04.in a good position to judge which of the two is better placed to deliver
:46:05. > :46:08.the regeneration we are hoping for. I believe the LEPs are, frankly.
:46:09. > :46:14.They are much more local. But they have less money.
:46:15. > :46:19.So far. The thing about the RDA is that it
:46:20. > :46:24.became a piece of government in the region and it was not as connected
:46:25. > :46:28.with people, it didn't connect with business as much, and if one talks
:46:29. > :46:34.to local authorities, they felt they were talked down to rather than
:46:35. > :46:38.brought in as a true partner. I happen to be fortunate in that I
:46:39. > :46:43.was chairing the rural regeneration zone, which was Advantage West
:46:44. > :46:47.Midlands' delivery vehicle into Herefordshire, Shropshire and
:46:48. > :46:52.Worcestershire, and I like to think it was the forerunner of a non`city
:46:53. > :46:56.LEP anyway because we ran with a There was this tremendous carve`up
:46:57. > :47:05.of territory when the enterprise A large chunk of the North
:47:06. > :47:10.of Worcestershire ended up with Do you have enough critical mass
:47:11. > :47:15.in the rest of Worcestershire to That part of Worcestershire
:47:16. > :47:20.and the north of Worcestershire is in both LEPs.
:47:21. > :47:25.It is in our LEP and theirs. It is one of 14 overlaps
:47:26. > :47:27.in the country and nowhere We have worked closely with
:47:28. > :47:33.the northern districts as much as the rest of the country and so we
:47:34. > :47:37.have massive involvement with them. We are not
:47:38. > :47:43.in competition with Birmingham, John, one of the criticisms
:47:44. > :47:49.of this funding is that this business of winding up Advantage
:47:50. > :47:52.West Midlands and bringing in the LEPs has stuck the regeneration
:47:53. > :47:58.agenda in its tracks for years Do you regret the winding up
:47:59. > :48:04.of Advantage West Midlands? No,
:48:05. > :48:07.because it is structured around city regions, it is responsive to local
:48:08. > :48:11.communities rather than government. We have had a financial problem more
:48:12. > :48:14.generally so the amount of money available will be less, so you
:48:15. > :48:19.cannot argue that one, and the LEP process is oriented around the city
:48:20. > :48:23.regions and that is more to suit the economy of
:48:24. > :48:29.the region than government niceties. Shabana, you have often bemoaned the
:48:30. > :48:32.passing of Advantage West Midlands, yet I heard the criticisms that it
:48:33. > :48:37.had too much money and became too The trick seems to be
:48:38. > :48:43.for it to be targeted and scientific You are coming in after a global
:48:44. > :48:52.financial crisis in 2010... So you would have had to shrink
:48:53. > :48:54.the growth fund Rather than dismantling
:48:55. > :48:59.infrastructure I am hearing arguments
:49:00. > :49:03.for repurposing elements of what was being done, trying to achieve more
:49:04. > :49:06.within the current structure. We have wasted time,
:49:07. > :49:09.suddenly government has discovered We have been saying that
:49:10. > :49:13.for four years. It is late for the government
:49:14. > :49:16.to talk about how we will get We know regional imbalances have
:49:17. > :49:23.got starker under this government. There is growth funding gathering
:49:24. > :49:28.dust in coffers while people who have bid for that
:49:29. > :49:30.money and bidded successfully are How do you view the story of delay
:49:31. > :49:39.and reducing budgets for growth I think as far as the budgets are
:49:40. > :49:46.concerned, while they are smaller They are better managed by the local
:49:47. > :49:56.LEPs, which is that combination. It is getting on for 50% down on the
:49:57. > :50:09.previous Advantage West Midlands fund. If we purely look at the
:50:10. > :50:12.growth fund, but there are other regional growth, the Going Places
:50:13. > :50:15.fund, are still feeding monies through and there are other sources
:50:16. > :50:18.in addition to the European money, For all this talk of growth, the
:50:19. > :50:21.results at the moment are patchy. You think of Yardley, which is close
:50:22. > :50:25.to some of the poorest areas of Birmingham and Ladywood is
:50:26. > :50:28.among the poorest places in the UK People
:50:29. > :50:33.in my constituency don't necessarily work in the constituency,
:50:34. > :50:35.they live in Birmingham and they may travel as far as Solihull
:50:36. > :50:41.and work at the plant there. The problem is the growth we have
:50:42. > :50:44.had in the macro economy has not been shared across the country
:50:45. > :50:48.and regional growth imbalances have increased under this government and
:50:49. > :50:52.nothing so far has challenged that. Also in the Growth Deal
:50:53. > :50:57.for Worcestershire, nearly ?2.5 million to connect more rural areas
:50:58. > :51:01.to super`fast broadband. The county council wants 90%
:51:02. > :51:05.of homes and businesses to be But the deadline's been
:51:06. > :51:10.pushed back once already. And now some business people there
:51:11. > :51:14.are increasingly frustrated that the roll`out is more superslow than
:51:15. > :51:17.superfast. Our BBC Hereford and Worcester
:51:18. > :51:21.political reporter Matthew Bone has been finding out what they're doing
:51:22. > :51:26.about it. Norton near Evesham is notorious
:51:27. > :51:29.for having some of the slowest But villagers speak of a mysterious
:51:30. > :51:35.green box which has recently Could this be the answer to
:51:36. > :51:41.their broadband prayers? I'm Matthew Bone from
:51:42. > :51:45.Sunday Politics. I hear the wi`fi speeds
:51:46. > :51:50.aren't great around here. Pretty poor. I live up the road and
:51:51. > :51:54.they are even slower so I tend I have a laptop.
:51:55. > :51:59.May I try it out and see how we go? Bringing a faster internet
:52:00. > :52:05.connection to places like Norton is part of a multi`million`pound
:52:06. > :52:08.project to bring superfast broadband to 90% of homes and
:52:09. > :52:16.businesses across Worcestershire. Planners had hoped to get everybody
:52:17. > :52:21.connected the end of next year, but I'm struggling to get the BBC
:52:22. > :52:32.website. Have you tried picking it up
:52:33. > :52:38.and shaking it? The county council says
:52:39. > :52:40.superfast broadband will And the government says the rollout
:52:41. > :52:44.is happening as quickly as possible. The importance
:52:45. > :52:47.of broadband has moved up the agenda with every year that has passed, so
:52:48. > :52:50.we understand why people are banging on the window saying, hurry up,
:52:51. > :52:54.but we are going as fast as we can. Just because you're based
:52:55. > :52:56.in the countryside, it doesn't mean Gtech near Worcester relies
:52:57. > :53:01.on its online presence to help sell But the company isn't covered
:53:02. > :53:05.in the superfast rollout, and had to spend thousands of pounds on
:53:06. > :53:16.its own broadband infrastructure. The first quotes were ?30,000,
:53:17. > :53:18.which is a lot Eventually our landlord paid 9000
:53:19. > :53:23.and we contributed 11,000 and got connected three weeks ago,
:53:24. > :53:25.so we got there eventually. Just up the M5 in Inkberrow,
:53:26. > :53:28.businesses like Elysia Skincare face similar problems but they are
:53:29. > :53:30.trying a different approach. Instead of laying miles and miles of
:53:31. > :53:35.cable, they use a series of towers ` Instead of laying miles and miles of
:53:36. > :53:38.cable, they use a series of towers Elysia are coming from off
:53:39. > :53:43.the hill here about three or four kilometres away and they have their
:53:44. > :53:49.receiver on the end so they can use the online services that most people
:53:50. > :53:52.are used to using in centres. One way or another,
:53:53. > :53:55.broadband is spreading out from our major towns and cities to
:53:56. > :53:58.more and more rural areas. The challenge is to do it as quickly
:53:59. > :54:03.as possible so that things like... So that problems like this become
:54:04. > :54:07.a thing of the past. Matthew Bone on the frustrations
:54:08. > :54:11.of long`suffering, or should that be long`buffering, broadband
:54:12. > :54:15.customers in Worcestershire? Peter, you mentioned you have
:54:16. > :54:19.special experience in the area How important is broadband
:54:20. > :54:24.in those places? So many start`up businesses are
:54:25. > :54:33.in rural areas and that is natural because people
:54:34. > :54:42.want the cheaper overheads that they will find in those areas, so it is
:54:43. > :54:45.essential we get that in place. What do you make of the frustration,
:54:46. > :54:48.those business people there Clearly that is right
:54:49. > :54:54.but things are moving quickly now, you are right to say it had slipped
:54:55. > :54:58.from some original dates but it is coming ahead of programme now, so
:54:59. > :55:01.the existing programme was for 90% cover of all premises, 90% cover
:55:02. > :55:06.of all business premises, which we believe is unique in the UK,
:55:07. > :55:20.by June 2016. The additional money
:55:21. > :55:25.which has come through is match funded from some additional BDUK
:55:26. > :55:36.money, which will allow us to get to John, having been a professional in
:55:37. > :55:42.the field of IT, what is your expert There are lots of different
:55:43. > :55:47.ways of getting IP connectivity. You can do it through wireless
:55:48. > :55:49.techniques or cable techniques. That is my worry, if you put these
:55:50. > :55:53.initiatives together, something like ?15 million of public money going
:55:54. > :56:13.into water sure on this one bad Could it not be overtaken by some
:56:14. > :56:20.other way of delivering it we originally had worming and cable
:56:21. > :56:26.along time ago and it was also the density of properties. And the
:56:27. > :56:34.density or sparsity of parties in rural areas where we know it has got
:56:35. > :56:41.more expensive to provide services to thinly populated areas, so if
:56:42. > :56:54.everyone is driving towards an increase to 5% it is getting very
:56:55. > :57:03.expensive. I think connectivity is important because a rural economy
:57:04. > :57:10.needs to do its bit in terms of our overall economic prosperity and that
:57:11. > :57:16.will not happen if they do not have transport or digital infrastructure
:57:17. > :57:21.because that is how the world is moving. You cannot future proof
:57:22. > :57:29.these things but to need a mix Our round`up
:57:30. > :57:31.in 60Seconds is brought to us today by our BBC West Midland Political
:57:32. > :57:34.Reporter Kathryn Stanczynszyn. Stoke`on`Trent City Council have
:57:35. > :57:36.posted footage on YouTube of Robbie Williams getting
:57:37. > :57:37.the freedom of the city. Robbie received the award
:57:38. > :57:39.in a private ceremony. Plans to turn a former coal mine in
:57:40. > :57:43.Warwickshire into a business park Daw Mill Colliery closed two years
:57:44. > :57:47.ago with the loss of 650 jobs UKIP's Regional Committee Chairman
:57:48. > :57:49.Jane Brooks has quit saying she's "deeply troubled" by the party's
:57:50. > :57:52.farming and environmental policies. They include relaxing rules
:57:53. > :57:54.on pesticides and nitrates and eliminating all grey
:57:55. > :57:54.squirrels. Unions say 400 jobs are at risk
:57:55. > :57:57.after Staffordshire County Council wrote to its 60 youth clubs saying
:57:58. > :58:01.some of them may not re`open again And thousands
:58:02. > :58:03.of public sector workers from across the region joined a national
:58:04. > :58:29.day of strike action on Thursday The rich are doing very well. The
:58:30. > :58:35.top 1% in our society their wealth grew by 18% in the last year. They
:58:36. > :58:37.could give a little bit back. But David Cameron has said
:58:38. > :58:38.a Conservative Government would legislate to impose voting
:58:39. > :58:49.thresholds and time limits on union Would be Labour government by sort
:58:50. > :58:54.this out? I think if David Cameron is going to go down this road of
:58:55. > :58:59.threshold and mandate he needs to think about the mandates of police
:59:00. > :59:03.and crime commissioners and the mandates in other local elections.
:59:04. > :59:07.It is across`the`board in terms of the democratic process and if we're
:59:08. > :59:13.going to tell the unions they need to up their game we need to do
:59:14. > :59:18.something about the parliamentary system as well because very few MPs
:59:19. > :59:23.are elected with more than 50% of the vote. On the issue of wages
:59:24. > :59:32.wages are starting to pick up so wages are starting to pick up so
:59:33. > :59:35.workers get a slice of the action? I workers get a slice of the action? I
:59:36. > :59:38.suggested minimum wage should do up to ?7. But some local authorities
:59:39. > :59:43.are paying people the minimum wage. It is compensated but things like
:59:44. > :59:50.universal credit are important to bring people in line but you have to
:59:51. > :59:59.make the maths add up. We are not out of the woods with the deficit,
:00:00. > :00:17.which means every year we borrow more money and end up with big debt.
:00:18. > :00:31.And this would be an issue that a Labour government coming in could
:00:32. > :00:35.not walk away from. It should be possible for those at the lower end
:00:36. > :00:49.will keep a bit safer. That is all the time we have.
:00:50. > :00:51.So, plenty happening in Parliament this coming week, including
:00:52. > :00:53.a controversial bill to make so-called assisted dying legal and
:00:54. > :01:14.Lord Carey has intervened in the assisted dying debate. Will it make
:01:15. > :01:20.a difference? It will make a difference because we have
:01:21. > :01:26.established in the House of Lords, I am not sure who they speak for and
:01:27. > :01:33.why they should have a privileged position, but he was a big opponent
:01:34. > :01:36.and has made a change of heart. The fact that the Daily Mail has printed
:01:37. > :01:49.this shows this is a big intervention. The Bill being pushed
:01:50. > :01:54.through, is it now on the agenda? I think it is. There are international
:01:55. > :01:59.examples of assisted dying elsewhere. The state of Oregon
:02:00. > :02:05.passed a Bill similar to this in the 1990s and things have not got out of
:02:06. > :02:08.control. That has not been an expansion or abuse. It has settled
:02:09. > :02:17.down and become part of the furniture. That makes it easier for
:02:18. > :02:21.this Bill, to make the case for it. Religious people may still have a
:02:22. > :02:24.principled objection but most other people have a practical objection,
:02:25. > :02:27.which is how to put in place safeguards to deal with unscrupulous
:02:28. > :02:32.relatives or anyone else who wants to abuse this right? Once a
:02:33. > :02:37.controversial issue is only being opposed for practical reasons it is
:02:38. > :02:41.on its way to getting its way. What is the division, is it the Church
:02:42. > :02:49.against everybody else? Is it a right and left division? What is
:02:50. > :02:54.stopping it? It is a very difficult moral issue and there are people who
:02:55. > :03:00.can have genuinely held Christian beliefs or non-Christian beliefs who
:03:01. > :03:03.can be on both sides. I think that the Lord Carey intervention is
:03:04. > :03:07.potentially a game changer not just because he is a former Archbishop of
:03:08. > :03:11.Canterbury but because he was on the Evan Jellicoe side of the Church of
:03:12. > :03:19.England. That is quite a big move. The response was to say, please
:03:20. > :03:24.withdraw your bell and let us have a royal Commission. The Supreme Court
:03:25. > :03:28.kicked the ball back to Parliament when they rejected the cases of
:03:29. > :03:34.three people who had been taking the case and said, we could say that
:03:35. > :03:39.banning the right to life is against the European Court of Human Rights,
:03:40. > :03:48.but it is a moral issue and an issue for Parliament. Parliament needs to
:03:49. > :03:53.decide. The data act that is going to be pushed through Parliament. In
:03:54. > :04:01.record time. To comply with a European court judgement. Tom Watson
:04:02. > :04:05.and David Davis, some dissent. Are you so prized with how united the
:04:06. > :04:13.establishment, left, right and centre is? No. There is a great
:04:14. > :04:18.quote saying this has been enacted under the something must be done act
:04:19. > :04:24.and that captures it exactly. Even Cameron says he does not want to
:04:25. > :04:28.look people in the eye and say that he did not do everything he could.
:04:29. > :04:32.There is no end to the power of surveillance. It is all was about
:04:33. > :04:36.drawing a distinction. I am always suspicious when politicians look
:04:37. > :04:42.something up and said, we have all agreed. Are there at the centre is
:04:43. > :04:52.right or is the political establishment right? I think the
:04:53. > :04:58.establishment is right. I think it is stronger than other issues. We
:04:59. > :04:59.are in a unique position where all three political parties have
:05:00. > :05:04.relatively recent experience of government so they now that security
:05:05. > :05:11.threats are not made up by unscrupulous people. The legislation
:05:12. > :05:18.being proposed is not dramatic, it is to fill a gap that was created. I
:05:19. > :05:24.do not see the political controversy. All three political
:05:25. > :05:32.parties support it. David Davis and Liberty are against that, and always
:05:33. > :05:36.are. Would you not have expected... The Lib Dems are in government, but
:05:37. > :05:43.a bit more rebellion on the Labour backbenches? There is no political
:05:44. > :05:48.controversy put outside parliament there's quite a lot of controversy
:05:49. > :05:55.about this. My paper has taken an interest in this. It is interesting,
:05:56. > :06:03.it does not feel, it is not a 1950s, three public school boys
:06:04. > :06:08.setting, let us have this deal. The Liberal Democrats and Labour have
:06:09. > :06:15.serious questions. There's going to be a sunset clause that will run out
:06:16. > :06:21.in 2016. The Liberal Democrats, who asked pretty tough questions, have
:06:22. > :06:22.said there are assurances. Ed Miliband did not go to public
:06:23. > :06:26.school. For many English football fans,
:06:27. > :06:28.tonight's World Cup final presents How do you pick
:06:29. > :06:31.between two traditional foes Well, if you're
:06:32. > :06:34.a political obsessive, like these three, you could always back the
:06:35. > :06:37.nation according to how it votes. The website LabourList has produced
:06:38. > :06:52.a political guide to the tournament. At the beginning of the tournament,
:06:53. > :06:58.it was a fairly balanced playing field politically with 15 left wing
:06:59. > :07:02.and 17 right-wing countries. England found themselves isolated in a group
:07:03. > :07:08.with three left-wing countries. That was the least of their problems.
:07:09. > :07:10.There was a clear domination of democratic regimes over
:07:11. > :07:13.authoritarian with only six of oratory and countries making it
:07:14. > :07:23.through to the finals and the only all authoritarian tie was dubbed the
:07:24. > :07:26.worst match of the World Cup. By the second round 16 teams remained. The
:07:27. > :07:31.left had a clear advantage with nine, seven from the right and
:07:32. > :07:36.authoritarian countries all but wiped out. Two representatives
:07:37. > :07:45.remained. Both were beaten by European democracies. By the
:07:46. > :07:51.semi-finals, all was even Stephen. A right-wing Protestant Europe taking
:07:52. > :07:56.on Catholics South America. With one victory apiece, Germany knocking out
:07:57. > :08:02.Brazil and Argentina beating the Dutch, tonight's final repeats that
:08:03. > :08:11.pattern. Who will win? Angela Merkel's Germany or Argentina?
:08:12. > :08:13.We're joined now by Britain's only Labour adviser
:08:14. > :08:27.Should we read political significance in to the fact that the
:08:28. > :08:33.only time England has won the World Cup was under a Labour government?
:08:34. > :08:38.Of course. The problem is we did not qualify for Euro 2008 when it was a
:08:39. > :08:44.Labour government. We have had some pretty shoddy results under a Labour
:08:45. > :08:48.government. As someone under the left, are you backing Argentina?
:08:49. > :08:54.Absolutely not. I do not think it has anything to do with politics. It
:08:55. > :09:02.is a bit of fun. People should choose it is Don Hoop plays the best
:09:03. > :09:07.football and the Germans have been fantastic. They were great in 2010
:09:08. > :09:12.as well. They started this model in 2008 and that is the sort of thing
:09:13. > :09:17.people should be supporting. Who should a Eurosceptic support? I
:09:18. > :09:21.would not say Argentina because that is the country that has tried to
:09:22. > :09:29.seize British sovereign territory within my lifetime. You were not
:09:30. > :09:34.around for the Blitz. Believe it or not, I was not. There is a strong
:09:35. > :09:46.political case to support Germany. They are probably going to win the
:09:47. > :09:50.World Cup with a clear of -- with players of Polish origin. That sort
:09:51. > :09:58.of cultural change they have forced themselves to go through... You talk
:09:59. > :10:03.about them being right wing, but in fact the way that the German league
:10:04. > :10:09.is structured, and I am an expert, is based on ownership. It is very
:10:10. > :10:17.different from the Premier League. It is about football as a usual
:10:18. > :10:26.good. The ticket prices are lower. The fans are involved in running the
:10:27. > :10:29.club. It is a model that all English football clubs should emulate.
:10:30. > :10:34.Germany had a strong football team under centre right governments and
:10:35. > :10:45.centre left governments and a coalition. A strong football team
:10:46. > :10:49.and a strong economy. The Conservative MP who is the arch
:10:50. > :10:52.Eurosceptic wanted to get us out of the European Union and was for a few
:10:53. > :10:59.weeks ago when people were making jokes about Jean-Claude Juncker, he
:11:00. > :11:05.was outraged and said you should not do that, so he could happily support
:11:06. > :11:09.Germany. What was interesting about the authoritarian and democratic
:11:10. > :11:21.regimes, what is great is that the World Cup is run by this open and
:11:22. > :11:27.democratic organisation Fifa. It is similar to the EU in many regards.
:11:28. > :11:36.Two countries led by women. Maybe gender is the thing. We did not win
:11:37. > :11:42.under Margaret Thatcher. There's one big difference with the EU, you
:11:43. > :11:49.cannot flog six Dom Acta gets to go to a European summit. Did you know
:11:50. > :11:59.that Italy won two world cups under Mussolini? Can we draw any
:12:00. > :12:05.conclusions between a political system and the performance of the
:12:06. > :12:08.football team? You can draw certain parallels between maybe national
:12:09. > :12:16.cliches, so the Germans are efficient and effective, which might
:12:17. > :12:20.reflect and the English are very polite so we let everyone score
:12:21. > :12:24.first and go into the second round. We put ourselves at the back of the
:12:25. > :12:36.queue. Is England going to qualify for the European? We are going to
:12:37. > :12:39.win the European Championship. The first country Scotland have to play
:12:40. > :12:53.is Germany. What could possibly go wrong? Who is going to win? Germany.
:12:54. > :12:57.Germany. I am going to put a few bob on Argentina. Are you going to be
:12:58. > :13:04.watching? Absolutely. Thank you. This is the last Sunday Politics
:13:05. > :13:08.for the summer. But we'll be back in early autumn
:13:09. > :13:12.and our first programme will be live from Scotland,
:13:13. > :13:18.the weekend before the referendum The Daily Politics is back tomorrow
:13:19. > :13:23.at noon and we'll bring you the last PMQs before the summer
:13:24. > :13:25.on Wednesday morning from 11:30am. Remember, if it's Sunday,
:13:26. > :13:29.it's the Sunday Politics, unless