:00:37. > :00:42.Welcome to the Sunday Politics, coming to you live from Edinburgh.
:00:43. > :00:44.Terrorists who use the name Islamic State have carried out
:00:45. > :00:53.their threat to murder the British aid worker, David Haines.
:00:54. > :00:56.They released a video late last night, showing a masked man
:00:57. > :01:02.beheading Mr Haines, who was taken captive in Syria 18 months ago.
:01:03. > :01:04.The jihadist group have already beheaded two American journalists.
:01:05. > :01:06.Now it's threatening the life of a second British hostage.
:01:07. > :01:09.David Cameron described the murder as an act of pure evil.
:01:10. > :01:11.As we speak he's chairing a meeting of the Cabinet's COBRA
:01:12. > :01:15.President Obama said the US stood shoulder to shoulder
:01:16. > :01:23.Alex Salmond says Scotland "stands on the cusp of history" as
:01:24. > :01:25.he predicts a historic and substantial victory in
:01:26. > :01:33.As the latest polls show the two sides neck and neck,
:01:34. > :01:35.I'll ask Yes campaigner and socialist Tommy Sheridan about his
:01:36. > :01:43.And after last week's last-minute interventions from Gordon Brown
:01:44. > :01:45.David Cameron, Ed Miliband and big business, I'll ask
:01:46. > :02:00.pro-unionist George Galloway whether it's enough to win over waverers.
:02:01. > :02:12.step closer back to Parliament. Is it a lame-duck administration?
:02:13. > :02:15.Late last night, as most folk were preparing for bed, news broke that
:02:16. > :02:18.Islamic State extremists had carried out their threat to murder the
:02:19. > :02:22.The group released a video, similar to the ones in which two American
:02:23. > :02:24.journalists were decapitated, showing a masked man apparently
:02:25. > :02:28.beheading Mr Haines who was taken captive in Syria last year.
:02:29. > :02:31.The terrorist, who has a southern British accent,
:02:32. > :02:35.also threatened the life of a second hostage from the UK
:02:36. > :02:37.Mr Haines is the third Westerner to be killed
:02:38. > :02:42.His family have paid tribute to his humanitarian work; they say he
:02:43. > :02:49.David Cameron described the murder as an act of pure evil, and said
:02:50. > :02:52.his heart went out to Mr Haines family, who had shown extraordinary
:02:53. > :03:01.Mr Cameron went on to say, "We will do everything in our power
:03:02. > :03:04.to hunt down these murderers and ensure they face justice,
:03:05. > :03:08.Mr Haines was born in England and brought up in Scotland.
:03:09. > :03:12.Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond condemned the killing on the Marr
:03:13. > :03:27.Well, it's an act of unspeakable barbarism that we have seen.
:03:28. > :03:32.Obviously our condolences go to the family members of David Haynes who
:03:33. > :03:32.Obviously our condolences go to the have borne this with such fortitude
:03:33. > :03:58.in recent months -- David have borne this with such fortitude
:03:59. > :04:02.will for effective, international, legal action but it must come in
:04:03. > :04:08.that fashion, and I would urge that to be a consideration to develop a
:04:09. > :04:10.collective response to what is a threat to humanity.
:04:11. > :04:11.Our security correspondent Gordon Corera joins me now
:04:12. > :04:24.Gordon, as we speak, the Cobra emergency meeting is meeting yet
:04:25. > :04:29.again. It meets a lot these days. I would suggest that the options
:04:30. > :04:33.facing this committee and Mr Cameron are pretty limited. That's right. I
:04:34. > :04:35.think they are extremely limited. They have been all along in these
:04:36. > :04:40.hostage They have been all along in these
:04:41. > :04:41.instance, that British government policy
:04:42. > :04:45.instance, that British government kidnappers. Other Europeans states
:04:46. > :04:51.are thought to have done so to get hostages released,
:04:52. > :05:49.are thought to have done so to get make substantive policy
:05:50. > :05:52.are thought to have done so to get authorising air strikes. And
:05:53. > :05:57.training troops. We are still waiting to hear what exact role the
:05:58. > :09:08.UK will play in that. We know it will play a role because it has
:09:09. > :09:17.UK will play in that. We know it Salvation, for the macro-2 campaign
:09:18. > :09:20.-- Better Together campaign, and there was another that gave a one
:09:21. > :09:27.percentage point different. ICM have the yes campaign back in the lead at
:09:28. > :09:33.54% and the no campaign at 46%, but their sample size was 705 Scottish
:09:34. > :09:41.adults, smaller than usual. Another suggests that the contest remains on
:09:42. > :09:46.a knife edge with 49.4% against 50.6%. When fed into the poll of
:09:47. > :09:53.polls the figures average out with yes at 49% and polls -- no at 5 %.
:09:54. > :09:57.But some people think 18% are undecided, and it is how they vote
:09:58. > :09:58.gets -- when they get to the polling booths that could make all the
:09:59. > :10:00.difference. campaigner and Respect Party MP
:10:01. > :10:09.George Galloway. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Big
:10:10. > :10:12.business, big oil, big banks, the Tories, the Orange order, all
:10:13. > :10:18.against Scottish independence. You sure you are on right side? Yes
:10:19. > :10:21.because the interests of working people are in staying together. This
:10:22. > :10:25.is a troubled moment in a marriage, a very long marriage, in which some
:10:26. > :10:30.good things and bad things have been achieved together. And there is no
:10:31. > :10:33.doubt that the crockery is being thrown around the house of the
:10:34. > :10:38.minute. But I believe that the underlying interests of working
:10:39. > :10:41.people are on working on the relationship rather than divorce. I
:10:42. > :10:45.have been divorced. It's a very messy, acrimonious, bitter affair
:10:46. > :10:49.and it's particularly bad for the children will stop that's why I am
:10:50. > :10:54.here. You talk about working people, and particularly Scottish working
:10:55. > :10:58.people, they seem to have concluded that the social democracy they want
:10:59. > :11:05.to create cannot now be done in a UK context. Why should they not have a
:11:06. > :11:08.shot of going it alone? Because the opposite will happen. Separation
:11:09. > :11:12.will cause a race to the bottom in taxation. Alex Salmond has already
:11:13. > :11:16.announced he will cut the taxes on companies, corporation tax, down to
:11:17. > :11:22.3% hello whatever it is in the rest of these islands. And business will
:11:23. > :11:28.only be attracted to come here, country of 5 million people on if
:11:29. > :11:34.there is low regulation, low public expenditure, low levels of taxation
:11:35. > :11:37.for them will stop you cannot have Scandinavian social democracy on
:11:38. > :11:41.Texan levels of taxation. The British government, as will be, the
:11:42. > :11:46.rest of the UK, they will race Alex Salmond to the bottom. If he cuts it
:11:47. > :11:53.by three, they will cut it by four. And so on. So whether some people
:11:54. > :11:56.cannot see it clearly yet or not, the interests of the working people
:11:57. > :12:00.on both sides of the border would be gravely damaged by separation. Let's
:12:01. > :12:04.take the interest of the working people. As you know, as well as
:12:05. > :12:08.anyone, the coalition is in fermenting both a series of cuts and
:12:09. > :12:13.reforms in welfare, and labour, Westminster Labour, has only limited
:12:14. > :12:17.plans to reverse any of that. Surely if you want to preserve the welfare
:12:18. > :12:23.state as it is, independence is the way to do it. For the reasons I just
:12:24. > :12:27.explain, I don't believe that. But Ed Miliband will be along in a
:12:28. > :12:33.minute. He will be along in May The polls indicate... They say he is
:12:34. > :12:38.only four or 5%, that is the average. Like the referendum, the
:12:39. > :12:43.next general election could be nip and tuck. I don't, myself, think
:12:44. > :12:47.that the time of David Cameron as Prime Minister is for much longer. I
:12:48. > :12:51.think there will be a Labour government in the spring and the
:12:52. > :12:56.Labour government in London and a stronger Scottish Parliament, super
:12:57. > :13:02.Devo Max, that is now on the table. That is the best arrangement of
:13:03. > :13:06.people in the country. But the people of Scotland surely cannot
:13:07. > :13:10.base a decision on independence on your feeling that Labour might win
:13:11. > :13:14.the next general election. It is my feeling. When the Tories were beaten
:13:15. > :13:19.on the bedroom tax last week in the house, it was written all over the
:13:20. > :13:24.faces of the government side not only that they were headed for
:13:25. > :13:33.defeat, but probably a massive fishy -- Fisher. I think the race to the
:13:34. > :13:39.bottom that I have proper size will mean that the welfare state will be
:13:40. > :13:45.a distant memory quite soon. The cuts and the run on the Scottish
:13:46. > :13:49.economy here in Edinburgh, the financial services industry, that
:13:50. > :13:54.will be gravely damage. The Ministry of Defence jobs in Scotland
:13:55. > :14:02.decimated, probably ended, more or less. It will be a time of cuts and
:14:03. > :14:06.austerity, maybe super austerity in an independent Scotland. You
:14:07. > :14:08.mentioned defence. What about nuclear weapons? The Tories and
:14:09. > :14:13.Labour will keep them. You are against them. Surely the only way to
:14:14. > :14:20.be rid of them in Scotland is by independence. But you are not rid of
:14:21. > :14:23.them by telling them down the river. The danger would be the same --
:14:24. > :14:29.telling them down the river. The danger would be the same. Nuclear
:14:30. > :14:34.radiation does not respect Alex Salmond's national boundaries. They
:14:35. > :14:38.would be committed to immediately joining NATO, which is bristling
:14:39. > :14:42.with nuclear weapons and is what -- involved in wars across the
:14:43. > :14:46.Atlantic. So anyone looking for a peace option will have to elect a
:14:47. > :14:50.government in Britain as a whole that will get rid of nuclear weapons
:14:51. > :14:53.and get out of military entanglements. We are in one again
:14:54. > :15:01.now. I have been up the whole night, till 5am, dealing with some of the
:15:02. > :15:04.consequences and implications of the grave international matter that you
:15:05. > :15:11.opened the show with. David Haines and the fate of the hostage still in
:15:12. > :15:14.their hands. There are many other hostages as well. And there are many
:15:15. > :15:21.people dying who are neither British nor American. I have, somehow, been
:15:22. > :15:26.drawn into this matter. And it showed me, again, that the world is
:15:27. > :15:34.interdependent. It is absolutely riven with division and hatred, and
:15:35. > :15:39.this is the worst possible time to be opting out of the world to set up
:15:40. > :15:46.a small mini-state on the promises of Alex Salmond of social democracy
:15:47. > :15:49.funded by Texan taxes. Let's, for the sake of the next question,
:15:50. > :15:52.assume that everything you have told us is true. Why is your side
:15:53. > :16:09.squandering a 20 point lead? I will have a great deal to say
:16:10. > :16:17.about that, whatever the result This is very much a Scottish Labour
:16:18. > :16:23.project, is that not a condemnation of Scottish Labour? It is
:16:24. > :16:40.potentially on its deathbed. The country breaking up, the principal
:16:41. > :16:44.responsibility will be on them. And the pitiful, absolutely pitiful job
:16:45. > :16:52.that has been made of defending a 300-year-old relationship in this
:16:53. > :16:56.island by the Scottish Labour leadership is really terrible for me
:16:57. > :17:01.to behold, even though I'm no longer one of them. I don't know how they
:17:02. > :17:06.are going to get out of this deathbed. Do you agree that if this
:17:07. > :17:10.referendum is lost by your side it will be because traditional
:17:11. > :17:14.working-class Labour voters, particularly in the west of
:17:15. > :17:20.Scotland, have abundant Labour and decided to vote for independence?
:17:21. > :17:25.Without a doubt, the number of Labour voters intending to vote yes
:17:26. > :17:30.is disturbingly high. Even just months ago during the European
:17:31. > :17:35.Parliament elections, swathes of people who didn't vote SNP will be
:17:36. > :17:41.voting yes on Thursday. That is a grave squandering of a great legacy
:17:42. > :17:48.of Scottish Labour history, which history will decree as
:17:49. > :17:54.unforgivable. If Labour is to get out of its deathbed in Scotland it
:17:55. > :17:59.will have to become Labour again. Real Labour again. I am ready to
:18:00. > :18:07.help them with that. My goodness, they need help with it. I wonder if
:18:08. > :18:12.it isn't just a failure of Labour in Scotland. People all over Britain
:18:13. > :18:16.are increasingly fed up with the Westminster system, but it is only
:18:17. > :18:21.the Scots who currently have the chance to break free from it, so why
:18:22. > :18:27.shouldn't they? That is exactly right. They see a parliament of
:18:28. > :18:33.expenses cheats led by Lord snooty and the Bullingdon club elite,
:18:34. > :18:38.carrying through austerity for many but not for themselves and they are
:18:39. > :18:43.repulsed by it. They need change, but you can go backwards and call it
:18:44. > :18:49.change but it will be worse than the situation you have now. A lot of
:18:50. > :18:56.Scottish people don't buy that. It is a big gamble. If I were poised to
:18:57. > :19:01.put my family's life savings on the roulette table in Las Vegas, my wife
:19:02. > :19:05.would not be scaremongering if she pointed out the potential
:19:06. > :19:10.consequences if I'd lost. She would not be negative by telling me that
:19:11. > :19:14.is my children's money I am risking. If I jumped off this roof it would
:19:15. > :19:19.change my point of view, but it would be worse than the point of
:19:20. > :19:23.view I have now. There is another issue here because the Scots are
:19:24. > :19:30.being asked to gamble on the Westminster parties, which they are
:19:31. > :19:35.already suspicious of, of delivering home rule. Alistair Darling could
:19:36. > :19:40.not even tell me if Ed Balls had signed off on more income tax powers
:19:41. > :19:44.for Scotland, so that is a gamble for the Scots. I feel the British
:19:45. > :19:50.state has had such a shake out of all this that they would be beyond
:19:51. > :19:56.idiots, they would be insane now to risk all of this flaring up again
:19:57. > :20:02.because whatever happens, if we win on Thursday, it is going to be
:20:03. > :20:07.narrowly. It will be a severe fissure in Scotland. A great deal of
:20:08. > :20:13.unpleasantness that we are already aware of. That could turn but we're
:20:14. > :20:20.still. It would be dicing with death, playing with fire, to let
:20:21. > :20:24.Scottish people down after Thursday if we narrowly win. If you narrowly
:20:25. > :20:30.win, and if there are moves to this home rule Mr Brown has been talking
:20:31. > :20:37.about, England hasn't spoken yet on this. Whilst England would probably
:20:38. > :20:43.not want to stop -- stop Scotland getting this, they would say, what
:20:44. > :20:51.about us? It could delay the whole procedure. It is necessary, you are
:20:52. > :20:56.right. England should have home rule, and I screamed at Scottish
:20:57. > :21:03.Labour MPs going into the vote to introduce tuition fees in England. I
:21:04. > :21:07.told them this was a constitutional monstrosity, as well as a crime
:21:08. > :21:14.against young people in England It was risking everything. We are led
:21:15. > :21:22.by idiots. Our leaders are not James Bonds, they are Austin powers. We
:21:23. > :21:23.need to change the leadership, not rip up a 300-year-old marriage.
:21:24. > :21:28.Thank you. It's been one of the longest and
:21:29. > :21:31.hardest fought political campaigns in history, with Alex Salmond firing
:21:32. > :21:34.the starting gun on the referendum Adam's been stitching together
:21:35. > :21:49.the key moments of the campaign It is the other thing drawing people
:21:50. > :21:55.to the Scottish parliament, the new great tapestry of Scotland. It is
:21:56. > :22:01.the story of battles won and lost, Scottish moments, British moments,
:22:02. > :22:07.famous Scots, and not so famous Scots. There is even a panel
:22:08. > :22:10.dedicated to the rise of the SNP. Alex Salmond's majority in the
:22:11. > :22:15.elections in 2011 made the referendum inevitable. It became
:22:16. > :22:21.reality when he and David Cameron did a deal in Edinburgh one year
:22:22. > :22:25.later. The Scottish Government set out its plans for independence in
:22:26. > :22:34.this book, just a wish list to some, a sacred text to others. This White
:22:35. > :22:39.Paper is the most detailed improvements that any people have
:22:40. > :22:44.ever been offered in the world as a basis for becoming an independent
:22:45. > :22:50.country. The no campaign, called Better Together, united the Tories,
:22:51. > :22:54.Labour and the Lib Dems under the leadership of Alistair Darling. Then
:22:55. > :22:57.the Scottish people were bombarded with two years of photo
:22:58. > :23:03.opportunities and a lot of campaigning. For the no campaign,
:23:04. > :23:07.Jim Murphy went on tour but took a break when he was egged and his
:23:08. > :23:13.events were often hijacked by yes campaigners who were accused of
:23:14. > :23:17.being intimidating. In turn, they accused the no campaign of using
:23:18. > :23:25.scare tactics. Things heated up when the TV dinner -- during the TV
:23:26. > :23:31.debate. Fever pitch was reached one week ago when one poll suggested the
:23:32. > :23:36.yes campaign was in the lead for the first time. The three main
:23:37. > :23:40.Westminster leaders ditched PMQs to head north. I think people can feel
:23:41. > :23:44.it is like a general election, that you make a decision and five years
:23:45. > :23:48.later you can make another decision if you are fed up with the Tories,
:23:49. > :23:58.give them a kick... This is totally different. And Labour shelved not
:23:59. > :24:02.quite 100 MPs onto the train, Alex Salmond took a helicopter instead.
:24:03. > :24:08.This is about the formation of the NHS. A big theme of the yes campaign
:24:09. > :24:19.is that changes to the NHS in Linden -- in England would lead to
:24:20. > :24:25.privatisation in Scotland. Alex Salmond's plan to share the pound
:24:26. > :24:29.was trashed by big names. There were other big question is, what would
:24:30. > :24:34.happen to military hardware like Trident based on the Clyde? Would an
:24:35. > :24:39.independent Scotland be able to join the EU? And how much oil was left
:24:40. > :24:44.underneath the North Sea? This panel is about famous Scots, we
:24:45. > :24:52.have Annie Lennox, Stephen Hendry, Sean Connery. I cannot see Gordon
:24:53. > :24:56.Brown. These are big changes we are proposing to strengthen the Scottish
:24:57. > :25:01.parliament, but at the same time to stay as part of the UK. A regular on
:25:02. > :25:05.the campaign, he was front and centre when things got close,
:25:06. > :25:10.unveiling a timetable for more devolution. People wondered whether
:25:11. > :25:15.Ed Miliband was able to reach the parts of Scotland Labour leader
:25:16. > :25:18.should reach, and at Westminster some Tories pondered whether David
:25:19. > :25:22.Cameron could stay as prime minister if there was a yes vote. This
:25:23. > :25:27.tapestry is nonpartisan so it is a good place to get away from it all
:25:28. > :25:39.but it is crystallising voters' views. Look at what we have
:25:40. > :25:42.contributed to Great Britain, and I am British and I hope to be staying
:25:43. > :25:45.British. This is what people from Scotland have done, taken to the
:25:46. > :25:49.rest of the world in many cases and I think I am going to vote yes. I am
:25:50. > :25:53.so inspired by it. It has certainly inspired me to have a go at
:25:54. > :26:00.stitching. How long do you think it would take to do the whole thing? I
:26:01. > :26:04.would say to put aside maybe 30 hours of stitching. Maybe by the
:26:05. > :26:05.time I am done, we will know more about how the fabric of the nation
:26:06. > :26:09.might be changing. And I've been joined
:26:10. > :26:12.by yes campaigner and convenor of Scotland's Solidarity socialist
:26:13. > :26:24.party, Tommy Sheridan. An economy dependent on oil, the
:26:25. > :26:29.Queen as head of state, membership of the world 's premier nuclear
:26:30. > :26:40.alliance of capitalist nations is that the socialist Scotland you are
:26:41. > :26:44.fighting for? No, that is the SNP's prospectus and they are entitled to
:26:45. > :26:49.put forward their vision, but it is not mine or that of the majority of
:26:50. > :26:55.Scotland. We will find out in two years. On Thursday we are not voting
:26:56. > :27:01.for a political party, we are voting for our freedom as a country. That
:27:02. > :27:04.is why people are going to vote yes on Thursday. A lot of people are
:27:05. > :27:11.voting for what you call freedom because they think it will be more
:27:12. > :27:15.Scotland. You have already got free prescriptions, no tuition fees, free
:27:16. > :27:19.care for the elderly. You might not in future have that if public
:27:20. > :27:24.spending is overdependent on the price of oil, over which you have no
:27:25. > :27:28.control. We don't have to worry about one single resource, we
:27:29. > :27:35.already have 20% of the fishing stock in Europe. We already have 25%
:27:36. > :27:47.of the wind, wave and solar power generation. We, as an independent
:27:48. > :27:51.country, have huge resources, natural resources but also people
:27:52. > :27:56.resources. We have five first-class universities, food and beverages
:27:57. > :28:00.industry which is the envy of the world. We have the ability to
:28:01. > :28:03.produce the resources on the revenues that won't just maintain
:28:04. > :28:07.the health service and education but it will develop health and
:28:08. > :28:13.education. I don't want to stand still, I want to redistribute
:28:14. > :28:19.wealth. But all of the projections of public spending for an
:28:20. > :28:24.independent Scotland show that to keep spending at the current level
:28:25. > :28:29.you need a strong price of oil and you are dependent on this commodity
:28:30. > :28:34.which goes up and down and sideways. That is a gamble. I have got to
:28:35. > :28:39.laugh because I have been told the most pessimistic is that in 40 years
:28:40. > :28:45.the oil is running out, panic stations! If you were told by the
:28:46. > :28:50.BBC you could only guarantee employment for the next 40 years you
:28:51. > :28:57.would be over the moon. I am talking about in the next five. You need 50%
:28:58. > :29:02.of your revenues to come from oil to continue spending and that is not a
:29:03. > :29:08.guarantee. Of course it is, the minimum survival of the oil is 0
:29:09. > :29:23.years. Please get your viewers to go onto the Internet and look at the
:29:24. > :29:30.website called oilandgas.com. The West Coast has 100 years of oil to
:29:31. > :29:33.be extracted. It hasn't been done because in 1981 Michael Heseltine
:29:34. > :29:40.said we cannot extract the oil because we have Trident going up and
:29:41. > :29:50.down there. Let's get rid of Trident and extract the oil. You are a trot
:29:51. > :29:55.right, why have you failed to learn his famous dictum, socialism in one
:29:56. > :30:00.country is impossible. Revolutions and change are not just single
:30:01. > :30:05.event. What will happen here on Thursday is a democratic revolution.
:30:06. > :30:10.The people are fed up of being patronised and lied to by this mob
:30:11. > :30:16.in Westminster who have used and abused us for far too long. The
:30:17. > :30:19.smaller people now have a voice What about socialism in one
:30:20. > :30:29.country? Mr Trotsky warned you against that. The no campaign
:30:30. > :30:33.represents the past. The yes campaign represents the future. That
:30:34. > :30:38.is the truth of the matter. What we are going to do in an independent
:30:39. > :30:46.Scotland is tackle inequality and a scourge of low pay. If we vote no on
:30:47. > :30:51.Thursday, there will be more low pay on Friday, more poverty and food
:30:52. > :30:57.banks on Friday. I'm not going to be lectured by these big banks, you
:30:58. > :31:06.vote less -- yes and we will leave the country! The food banks will be
:31:07. > :31:11.the ones closing. If you got your way, for the type of Scotland you
:31:12. > :31:16.would like to see, state control of business, nationalisation of the
:31:17. > :31:24.Manx, the roads to Carlisle will be clogged with people
:31:25. > :31:31.Yes, hoping to come into Scotland, because in their hearts, the
:31:32. > :31:36.Scottish people know that England want to see the people having the
:31:37. > :31:39.bottle. The working class people in Liverpool, Newcastle, outside of
:31:40. > :31:43.London, they are saying good on the jocks that are taking on big
:31:44. > :31:47.business. When we are independent and investing in social housing the
:31:48. > :31:52.people of England will say, we can do that as well, and they will
:31:53. > :31:56.rediscover the radical tradition. In wanting to build socialism in one
:31:57. > :31:59.country, it really means you are fighting for the few, rather than
:32:00. > :32:03.the many. You are bailing out of the socialist Battle for Britain. You
:32:04. > :32:12.think it will be easier to make it work. Think globally, act locally
:32:13. > :32:15.and we will build socialism in Scotland but I wanted across the
:32:16. > :32:20.world. I won my brothers and sisters in England and Wales to be
:32:21. > :32:23.encouraged by what we do so they can reject the Westminster consensus as
:32:24. > :32:28.well -- I want. We had the three Stooges coming up to London, three
:32:29. > :32:31.millionaires united on one thing, austerity. Doesn't matter whether Ed
:32:32. > :32:35.Miliband wins the next election he said he would stick to the story
:32:36. > :32:41.spending cuts. Why vote for Ed Miliband? You wouldn't trust him to
:32:42. > :32:45.run a bath, not a country. Let's see if this is realistic, this great
:32:46. > :32:49.socialist vision. At the last Scottish election, the Socialist
:32:50. > :32:55.party got 8000 votes. The Conservatives got 30 times more
:32:56. > :32:59.votes. Where is the appetite in Scotland for your Marxist ideology
:33:00. > :33:02.question we might not win it. But do you know what, see in two years
:33:03. > :33:17.time. See when we have the Scottish general election. You won't -- you
:33:18. > :33:23.are saying you might win and you went to the Holyrood election and
:33:24. > :33:26.got 8000 Pope -- votes. The SNP won a democratic election and then won
:33:27. > :33:30.the 2011 election and you know why they won? Because they picked up the
:33:31. > :33:34.clothes that the Labour Party has thrown away. They picked up the
:33:35. > :33:42.close of social democracy and protecting the health service was --
:33:43. > :33:47.service. There are people in the SNP who believe in public ownership and
:33:48. > :33:49.people in the SNP who believe in the NHS should be written into a
:33:50. > :33:54.constitution as never for sale people in the the SNP that think the
:33:55. > :33:58.Royal mail should return to public ownership. That is there in black
:33:59. > :34:02.and white. Do you agree with George Galloway that this is potentially a
:34:03. > :34:07.crisis for Scottish Labour? Scottish Labour is finished. They are
:34:08. > :34:12.absolutely finished. George is right in that. Scottish Labour is
:34:13. > :34:14.finished. The irony of ironies is, Labour in Scotland has more chance
:34:15. > :34:20.of recovery in an independent Scotland that they have in a no
:34:21. > :34:24.vote. Labour in Scotland in an independent country will have to
:34:25. > :34:28.rediscover the traditions of Keir Hardie, the ideas of Jimmy Maxon,
:34:29. > :34:36.because right now, they are to the right of the SNP as a political
:34:37. > :34:40.party. I understand the socialist vision, but it is where the appetite
:34:41. > :34:46.is. And you look at the independence people in Scotland. One of your
:34:47. > :34:52.colleagues, Brian Souter, a man who fought against the appeal -- repeal
:34:53. > :34:55.of homosexual rights in Scotland. Another of your allies would seem to
:34:56. > :35:02.be Rupert Murdoch, the man who engineered your downfall. You say he
:35:03. > :35:07.engineered your downfall, but I m still here and his newspaper has
:35:08. > :35:11.closed. Whether it Rupert Murdoch, Brian Souter, or any other
:35:12. > :35:15.millionaire supporting independence, I couldn't care less. This boat on
:35:16. > :35:21.Thursday is not about millionaires, it is about the millions. -- this
:35:22. > :35:26.vote. We will not be abused any young -- longer. Would you rather
:35:27. > :35:31.not have their support? I couldn't care about the support. You know who
:35:32. > :35:35.is supporting the union. It is the unions of the big businesses, the
:35:36. > :35:42.BNP, UKIP, they are the ones who support it. You are giving me a
:35:43. > :35:46.stray that has wandered into the campaign and are you seriously going
:35:47. > :35:50.to argue with me that the establishment isn't united to try
:35:51. > :35:54.and save the union? That is what they are trying to be. The BBC, you
:35:55. > :35:57.have been a disgrace in your coverage of the campaign. Not you
:35:58. > :36:03.personally. You don't have editorial control. The BBC coverage,
:36:04. > :36:08.generally, has been a disgrace and the people. Oil and gas, go and look
:36:09. > :36:12.at that, why is that not feature. Why is the idea of 100 years of oil
:36:13. > :36:16.not featured in the campaign. Because the BBC does not want to see
:36:17. > :36:21.it. Are you getting in your excuses if you lose? You better be kidding.
:36:22. > :36:27.Is this the face of somebody looking to lose. We are going to win, 6 /40.
:36:28. > :36:32.Absolutely. There is a momentum that you guys are not seeing on the
:36:33. > :36:36.working-class housing estates. Working class people are fed up
:36:37. > :36:45.being taken for granted fed up with the lives of people dragging us into
:36:46. > :36:48.tax cuts, bedroom tax for the poor. They will have power on Thursday,
:36:49. > :36:53.and they will use it and vote for freedom. Are you happy with the way
:36:54. > :36:57.the BBC has treated you today? So far, yes. I have still not been
:36:58. > :37:02.offered a Coffey, but that might happen. That is an obvious example
:37:03. > :37:25.Hello once again from the Mhdlands. you later with George Galloway.
:37:26. > :37:30.Hello once again from the Mhdlands. I am Patrick Burns, and as hf to
:37:31. > :37:35.demonstrate just how closelx our fortunes here are intertwindd with
:37:36. > :37:41.those of Scotland, Anthea McIntire, Conservative MEP for the West
:37:42. > :37:44.Midlands, has her family roots in Perth shire, where I am told her
:37:45. > :37:52.great aunt and uncle are frtit farmers. They were, yes! And the
:37:53. > :37:55.Shadow Minister for children and families, who was raised in Glasgow
:37:56. > :38:02.and educated in Edinburgh, good to have you both with us. Incidentally,
:38:03. > :38:07.I am half Scottish myself, so altogether we add up to a h`lf
:38:08. > :38:11.decent blended Scott, I reckon. How is this from another name whth more
:38:12. > :38:16.than a hint of Bonnie Scotl`nd about it? David Jameson. He is ond of our
:38:17. > :38:21.most powerful Midlanders who is seeing an animal budget of ?500
:38:22. > :38:25.million, yet the election in which he was the winning Labour c`ndidate
:38:26. > :38:31.came and went virtually unnoticed this summer, just over 10% of the 2
:38:32. > :38:36.million eligible voters turned out in last month's poll triggered by
:38:37. > :38:40.the untimely death of Bob Jones the first Police Commissioner for the
:38:41. > :38:43.West Midlands force area. Is that embarrassing legal turnout `nd
:38:44. > :38:47.emphatic thumbs down from the electorate in what was widely seen
:38:48. > :38:53.in effect as a referendum on the role itself? Given that lowdr
:38:54. > :39:02.turnout, it makes UNEPs look usually popular by comparison. That Michael
:39:03. > :39:05.it makes you MEPs. We need public support for the police come if they
:39:06. > :39:10.are electing the Police and Crime Commissioner that can help. It got
:39:11. > :39:17.was a very low Paul but we have to make it more accessible and relevant
:39:18. > :39:22.to the electorate. Yet Nick Clegg on Friday sahd the
:39:23. > :39:25.role had been discredited and the Lib Dems if they are in powdr after
:39:26. > :39:29.the election will do their best to scrap the role altogether. H think
:39:30. > :39:38.we shouldn't let the arguments of maybe one bad apple, where we have
:39:39. > :39:41.had huge complaints about one particular Police Commissioner, that
:39:42. > :39:44.should not be allowed to spoil the whole thing.
:39:45. > :39:50.Labour have had their whole policy on it that has recommended scrapping
:39:51. > :39:54.PCCs, yet the are now that xour party would just do a bit of
:39:55. > :40:00.tinkering with it instead. `` the signs are now.
:40:01. > :40:06.Well, I worked with David at Westminster, I know he is a decent
:40:07. > :40:08.man who will try very hard to do that right things.
:40:09. > :40:11.Personalised think we would be better to scrap them and I hope the
:40:12. > :40:16.party has not given up on that. It does not sound as if that is the
:40:17. > :40:19.view, we talk about Yvette Cooper looking at improving the chdcks
:40:20. > :40:24.around the ball. One of the difficulties we have is
:40:25. > :40:26.the timing of the next round of elections for Police and Crhme
:40:27. > :40:30.Commissioner 's would make ht difficult for an incoming government
:40:31. > :40:33.to have legislation in placd. You would almost certainly be obliged to
:40:34. > :40:38.extend them whatever you chose to do in the long run and that is what
:40:39. > :40:40.Yvette Cooper is trying to do at the moment.
:40:41. > :40:43.For the moment, thank you vdry much indeed. Still to come today, after
:40:44. > :40:50.the party conference in Birlingham we hear for the `` from the leader
:40:51. > :40:54.of the greens on garden cithes, badgers and their general election
:40:55. > :41:00.chances in the West Midlands. We have seen it all now, the Scottish
:41:01. > :41:06.saltire flying proudly over council buildings in Sandwell, Stokd and
:41:07. > :41:10.Wolverhampton. Surely they `re not bidding to split from the UK and
:41:11. > :41:14.join an independent Scotland? Quite the opposite, their message to
:41:15. > :41:19.Scotland is that we really `re better together. Come what lay next
:41:20. > :41:23.week, this debate has already reopened the argument over dxtra
:41:24. > :41:26.powers here, as BBC Shropshhre's political reporter has been finding
:41:27. > :41:33.out. JoAnn Gallagher has bedn talking to exiled Scots in the
:41:34. > :41:37.Midlands. What do they of it? `` what do they make that? a lhttle
:41:38. > :41:40.piece of Scotland in the he`rt of Shropshire. The members of
:41:41. > :41:45.Telford's Caledonian Societx are proud of Scottish heritage.
:41:46. > :41:48.But nationalists is back hole have had enough of dancing to
:41:49. > :41:56.Westminster's tune and want independence. These Scots whll not
:41:57. > :41:59.have a vote on Thursday, but living in exile in the Midlands, what do
:42:00. > :42:04.they make of it all? I think the 16 and 17`year`olds
:42:05. > :42:10.might be swayed more than mx generation. Most of my generation,
:42:11. > :42:15.the ones I have spoken to are against it.
:42:16. > :42:17.We have a lot to gain, but ` lot to lose as well. I don't think everyone
:42:18. > :42:26.will take that gamble. The referendum close to call, but
:42:27. > :42:32.whether it is a yes or no vote, there will be implications for the
:42:33. > :42:36.rest of the UK. Acton Burnell near Shrewsbury was the white `` site of
:42:37. > :42:42.the first proper English Parliament and this barn is all that is left
:42:43. > :42:47.from that time ago `` all that long time ago. It was held by King Edward
:42:48. > :42:51.the first, who actually tridd to conquer Scotland. What would he have
:42:52. > :42:55.made of the break`up? I think he would have been
:42:56. > :43:01.horrified. Certainly during a lot of his reign a lot of money and
:43:02. > :43:03.manpower was spent trying to bring the adjoining countries into
:43:04. > :43:10.submission, the Welsh and the Scottish. Not at all on his agenda.
:43:11. > :43:13.But there are plenty of voices in the region supporting a yes vote,
:43:14. > :43:18.among them the English Democrats, who sees Scottish independence as a
:43:19. > :43:23.pathway to an English Parli`ment. Our party is in favour of Scottish
:43:24. > :43:28.independence. We think it worked be good for Scotland and for England.
:43:29. > :43:32.`` we think it would be good. We want to see an independent Dngland.
:43:33. > :43:36.We think England would be mtch better off without Scotland, Wales
:43:37. > :43:40.and without Northern Ireland, but whatever happens to the futtre of
:43:41. > :43:45.the UK, we think that England deserves its own Parliament and its
:43:46. > :43:48.own pop `` government. Back in Telford, the party hs still
:43:49. > :43:53.going strong, but come Frid`y morning will it be the No
:43:54. > :43:58.campaigners left in a spin or the yes voters who are left reeling
:43:59. > :44:03.Incidentally, subject to thd vagaries of the weather in the
:44:04. > :44:08.Highlands and Islands and possible recounts, we should know thd result
:44:09. > :44:13.by around 7pm on `` 7am on Friday morning. Derek Hilling talkdd about
:44:14. > :44:19.the uneven settlement after the devolution deal under your
:44:20. > :44:24.government. Is it anyone now that Nick Clegg, Nigel Farage on Friday,
:44:25. > :44:27.the core cities, are sort of rising up and saying that England lust get
:44:28. > :44:31.a better deal by comparison out of this once the dust has settled over
:44:32. > :44:34.Scotland? Obviously I hope that they will vote
:44:35. > :44:39.no. Well, I can see that, the b`dge is a
:44:40. > :44:44.clue! I think it is certain that `fter
:44:45. > :44:50.this, particularly if peopld vote No and we have TiVo Macs for Scotland,
:44:51. > :44:56.there will be a demand for ` change in the regional organisation in
:44:57. > :44:59.England. I am not saying th`t is a bad thing, I would not myself
:45:00. > :45:03.support an English Parliament, but I think it would be a good idda to
:45:04. > :45:06.have a constitutional conference and to think about how we could have
:45:07. > :45:09.better arrangements for the rest of the country.
:45:10. > :45:13.If not an English Parliament, what are we talking about? Regions? There
:45:14. > :45:20.was no great uptake elector`lly when this was floated.
:45:21. > :45:24.The reason why I advocate conferences, I am not suggesting
:45:25. > :45:28.going back to John Prescott's assembly IDR, I think there is a
:45:29. > :45:32.feeling people should be able to decide locally, investment strategy,
:45:33. > :45:34.transport policies and how things are done, and how you make ht
:45:35. > :45:41.accountable I think will cole afterwards. I think there is a sense
:45:42. > :45:45.that Westminster is possiblx too remote. One bridging gap wotld be
:45:46. > :45:50.regional committees, region`l grand committees.
:45:51. > :45:54.And fear, what would you suggest as an alternative to redress the
:45:55. > :45:57.balance little for England? The Conservative Party typicallx does
:45:58. > :46:01.not like regions are very mtch, even though you as an MEP happendd to
:46:02. > :46:06.represent this one. Certainly I am not in fear `t all of
:46:07. > :46:10.regional assemblies, region`l government or any way of splitting
:46:11. > :46:14.up the UK. `` not in favour. You do not want to bolster
:46:15. > :46:19.England's relationship? There is a sense we are puny by comparhson
:46:20. > :46:22.politically, yet we are obvhously bankrolling public...
:46:23. > :46:27.Nor, I think as a united cotntry, and I hope that we keep Scotland, I
:46:28. > :46:30.feel passionately about that, so that our Parliament is Westlinster.
:46:31. > :46:37.We still have to answer the questions of if Scotland has further
:46:38. > :46:39.devolution and Beasley therd is Welsh devolution, perhaps wd could
:46:40. > :46:46.look at an arrangement wherd issues that only effect England ard voted
:46:47. > :46:51.on in Westminster by English MPs. But I think it would be a bhg
:46:52. > :46:58.mistake to create another l`yer of brokers say. `` Gourock to see. I am
:46:59. > :47:02.all for pitting decision`making as near people as possible, th`t is why
:47:03. > :47:10.I am in favour of ringing powers back from Europe to the UK. Localism
:47:11. > :47:14.is important, but no more bureaucracy.
:47:15. > :47:20.The cost itself could be an admin for independence for Scotland, from
:47:21. > :47:24.the point of the view of thd West Midlands as we will be able to hang
:47:25. > :47:28.to a larger share of public funding. ?8,500 per head of the population
:47:29. > :47:32.here, something over ?10,000 per head in Scotland. The Midlands may
:47:33. > :47:37.get a better deal if Scotland did go it alone.
:47:38. > :47:41.I think we have no idea how things like changes in corporation tax and
:47:42. > :47:49.energy costs could at firstly impact in this area, so I not convhnced by
:47:50. > :47:53.that. `` adversely impact. Ht is about transferring some of the power
:47:54. > :47:57.from Westminster and allowing people to have more of a say locally.
:47:58. > :48:00.But a regional assembly is `nother layer.
:48:01. > :48:04.I said I am not advocating ` regional assembly.
:48:05. > :48:08.Regional grand committee? That would mean using existhng MPs,
:48:09. > :48:12.getting them to have more of a say. In a way you are both saying that
:48:13. > :48:16.existing parliamentary structures could kind of change into something
:48:17. > :48:20.with a more distinctive English emphasis? I think we could tse the
:48:21. > :48:23.present system at Westminstdr to have English MPs voting on Dnglish
:48:24. > :48:27.matters. The most important thing is that we
:48:28. > :48:33.really must stay together. H find it desperate that I have Scotthsh, I do
:48:34. > :48:37.not go around saying I am Scottish or English, I am British. I cannot
:48:38. > :48:41.bear the thought of us losing our great British country by by people
:48:42. > :48:44.pulling out. We will see wh`t happens this week.
:48:45. > :48:47.Thank you both very much for the time being.
:48:48. > :48:50.Conference season is alreadx upon us. Birmingham has two of them this
:48:51. > :48:55.year, the Conservatives in ` fortnight and the Green Party at
:48:56. > :49:00.there's last week at Aston University. Their leader, N`talie
:49:01. > :49:03.Bennett, accompanied by the Dudley Council will buck birth, has been
:49:04. > :49:09.talking to my colleague. Shd began by asking what she made suggestions
:49:10. > :49:14.that building garden cities on the green belt may be an answer to
:49:15. > :49:19.housing shortage is new places like Stafford, Stratford, Rugby,
:49:20. > :49:23.Worcester and jobs in. `` ndar places. We're basically opposed to
:49:24. > :49:30.that idea. We have almost 1 million empty homes
:49:31. > :49:33.in Britain. For like the decent regional development policy that
:49:34. > :49:37.support particularly the North to enable people to live in colmunities
:49:38. > :49:41.they come from, it has seen a real focus on the south and London but
:49:42. > :49:45.also the Midlands. If we rebalanced regional develop with the policy,
:49:46. > :49:49.that is one issue. Another hssue is the fact that we have more bedrooms
:49:50. > :49:53.per person in Britain now than we have ever had before. Inequ`lity has
:49:54. > :49:56.meant some people can afford a great deal of house and many people are
:49:57. > :50:03.struggling to afford anything at all. What we are usually talking
:50:04. > :50:07.about with green belt developments is expensive houses that yot will
:50:08. > :50:12.need to have two salaries to support a mortgage and two cars to run on
:50:13. > :50:19.congested roads. We need affordable housing in the centre of cities
:50:20. > :50:23.A second badger cull is unddrway in Gloucestershire. Your party has been
:50:24. > :50:27.very publicly opposed to thhs, but bovine tuberculosis is a problem
:50:28. > :50:32.that has cost the country ?400 million in the last decade. There
:50:33. > :50:36.are no viable terms of that the moment, including the vaccine, which
:50:37. > :50:43.was ice does not work for a number of reasons. What would your party
:50:44. > :50:47.do? `` which does not work. My first degree was agricultural
:50:48. > :50:51.science, I have worked with dairy farmers and there is a financial
:50:52. > :50:55.cost and human cost, lost hdrds lost bloodlines, I appreciate all of
:50:56. > :50:59.that. But the fact is the evidence shows the badger cull will not
:51:00. > :51:04.achieve its aims and will actually have the opposite impact. It is
:51:05. > :51:11.inhumane and not backed up by scientific evidence. But we do have
:51:12. > :51:15.the year culls and wild boar, fire badger is different?
:51:16. > :51:26.This is actually likely to spread TB. The badgers spread.
:51:27. > :51:31.Are your party happy being underachievers? In this reghon you
:51:32. > :51:36.do not have any MPs or cancdls, and in the last elections your share of
:51:37. > :51:40.the votes dropped. I absolutely do not agree whth your
:51:41. > :51:45.characterisation. The fact hs we are fast`growing achievers in the West
:51:46. > :51:49.Midlands. Four years ago we had three councillors on three councils,
:51:50. > :51:55.we are now up to 25 councillors on ten councils. We are the official
:51:56. > :51:59.opposition on Solihull Council. We recently won a County Counchl
:52:00. > :52:03.by`election which, together with independence, helped to enstre that
:52:04. > :52:07.full control of Herefordshire County Council was taken away from the
:52:08. > :52:09.Tories. This is a fast growhng region for the Green Party `nd we
:52:10. > :52:16.will have a great parliamentary campaign in Solihull.
:52:17. > :52:21.Natalie Bennett. And with us here today is counsellor Felicitx
:52:22. > :52:25.Norman, a Green Party member of Herefordshire Council, wherd she is
:52:26. > :52:28.also on the planning committee and has contested many an electhon at
:52:29. > :52:34.European, national and a variety of local levels, as well. Your party
:52:35. > :52:39.leaders seemed exclusively focused on the principle of affordable
:52:40. > :52:44.housing in the cities, but `s you know, there are housing shortages in
:52:45. > :52:48.rural areas, as well. Far from being a green policy, this looks ` pretty
:52:49. > :52:51.black and white one to me. I think it depends where yot are
:52:52. > :52:55.talking about and whereas that may be a case in an inner`city, we have
:52:56. > :52:59.a different situation in role areas. We still need housing and I
:53:00. > :53:02.feel strongly in Herefordshhre are the focus seems to be more on
:53:03. > :53:08.housing that will not be av`ilable to people on low incomes and people
:53:09. > :53:12.struggling to find a first lortgage. Don't you need a mixed economy? You
:53:13. > :53:15.need some in the cities, but you also have to address areas of
:53:16. > :53:21.Gloucestershire, Herefordshhre, where there are common factors?
:53:22. > :53:24.I am not arguing with that, but I go back to points that Carolind made
:53:25. > :53:31.that we have thousands of elpty homes we have two be looking at and
:53:32. > :53:34.looking at the business of homes that are too large or are
:53:35. > :53:39.inappropriate for the indivhdual living in them and finding ways of
:53:40. > :53:43.organising things so that that could be available. There are so lany
:53:44. > :53:47.things we could be doing. It does not mean we must not build, we must,
:53:48. > :53:52.but we have to be more senshtive about how to do it and be rdalistic
:53:53. > :53:59.about what is needed and whdre. In Herefordshire, for example, the
:54:00. > :54:02.council has a plan to build 16, 00 new houses. It appears to bd pretty
:54:03. > :54:09.indiscriminate as to where they want to dump them. They want to put 300
:54:10. > :54:15.houses in Leinster, add that to a village that already has 2000 houses
:54:16. > :54:21.already. Your government brought forward and
:54:22. > :54:24.then retracted eco`towns, for example, it seems to go on `nd on
:54:25. > :54:27.and we have a shortage and no answers.
:54:28. > :54:31.It is difficult, and I think you just heard some of the diffhculties.
:54:32. > :54:36.The bottom line is we need housing, we need a mix of both kinds, it
:54:37. > :54:42.needs to be affordable and we need to just agree a plan and get on with
:54:43. > :54:46.it. The longer we surely sh`ll `` the longer we are indecisivd the
:54:47. > :54:52.longer people will go withott. We have to bite the bullet on this
:54:53. > :54:57.You are from Herefordshire, what is the reality? You had me raise the
:54:58. > :55:03.question of rural shortage of housing. Absolutely, I think
:55:04. > :55:07.localism is the actor. `` is the answer. In my parhsh the
:55:08. > :55:10.council thinks it can accomlodate more houses and everyone will
:55:11. > :55:14.support that. Let's establish a local plan and keep to that and then
:55:15. > :55:23.local people have a say. Thdre is a role for new garden cities. Places
:55:24. > :55:28.like en suite, they wanted, Oxford, the local authorities said this is
:55:29. > :55:35.our plan. `` en suite. That is a positive way forward. We ard talking
:55:36. > :55:38.about affordable housing, in my view affordable housing has to bd able to
:55:39. > :55:41.run, as well. Important as the numbers is the
:55:42. > :55:44.quality of the housing and dnergy efficiency and that sort of thing.
:55:45. > :55:47.We have to focus on what we are building and what it will do for
:55:48. > :55:51.those living in it. We heard in the interview how your
:55:52. > :55:58.electoral showing has shown a decline. Are you on the back foot in
:55:59. > :56:02.an increasingly multiparty environment, with UKIP getthng many
:56:03. > :56:05.of the protest votes that you, whether you like it or not, used to
:56:06. > :56:09.get? At the conference it did not feel
:56:10. > :56:13.like that, it was so buoyant and positive and we felt like wd were
:56:14. > :56:17.moving ahead. There is backward movement to some extent, but let's
:56:18. > :56:21.be fair, you have me here, xou are generous, I love being on this
:56:22. > :56:24.programme, but realisticallx we get a fraction of the coverage
:56:25. > :56:29.across`the`board. Think abott the national coverage for UKIP,
:56:30. > :56:32.concurred with the greens, ht is not surprising... Should you not be
:56:33. > :56:37.doing more of the running? We absolutely do, the stuff that we
:56:38. > :56:40.tried to get media attention and be on programmes is nonstop, it really
:56:41. > :56:46.is. Yet the tide seems to be flowing
:56:47. > :56:48.away against environmental issues...
:56:49. > :56:52.We have a chance were putting the case that it is either or, the
:56:53. > :56:58.economy or the environment. Clearly, we have a dilemma. If we get a
:56:59. > :57:04.chance we would say these things have to go hand`in`hand and it is
:57:05. > :57:07.economically sensible to pick up the environmental issues. Thank you
:57:08. > :57:10.Felicity, for being with us here today.
:57:11. > :57:13.Let us catch up now with sole of the other political developments making
:57:14. > :57:19.the news here in the past wdek. Our roundup in 60 seconds is brought to
:57:20. > :57:19.us today by our BBC Hereford and Worcester political reporter,
:57:20. > :57:30.Matthew both. The field arts centre in West
:57:31. > :57:33.Bromwich has reopened as a sixth for break form college.
:57:34. > :57:35.It was shut down last year to save money.
:57:36. > :57:39.The number of children's centres in Staffordshire could be cut from 54
:57:40. > :57:43.to ten. Staffordshire Countx Council says not enough people are tsing
:57:44. > :57:46.them. 29`year`old Kingsley Borrell from
:57:47. > :57:51.Birmingham died after a strtggle with police officers. There have
:57:52. > :57:55.been delayed break delays whth his inquest and calls for the CPS to
:57:56. > :57:56.reopen the case. It has takdn so long to get these processes
:57:57. > :58:03.completed. I hope once we have had that inquest
:58:04. > :58:05.the CPS may revisit the dechsion. Campaigners in Shropshire are
:58:06. > :58:09.fighting plans from health service chiefs which could mean the county
:58:10. > :58:15.loses one of its two accident and emergency departments.
:58:16. > :58:20.And the UKIP MEP Jill Seymotr has announced she is to stand in the
:58:21. > :58:23.general election next year. She will contest the seat in Fokker
:58:24. > :59:01.currently held by Mike of women who have been very new to
:59:02. > :59:07.politics, new to Parliament, decided they have had enough. I think it is
:59:08. > :59:11.up to all of us to make surd they understand the realities and ensure
:59:12. > :59:15.it is possible to continue being an MP and enjoying life.
:59:16. > :59:21.Jill Seymour, fellow MEP, UKIP, she will give Mike Prichard are run ``
:59:22. > :59:24.mark Prichard run for his money won't she?
:59:25. > :59:28.I think he will be absolutely fine. I hope she does not think she can
:59:29. > :59:32.dot around from one thing to the other.
:59:33. > :59:35.You cannot afford to relax too much because you have some very tight
:59:36. > :59:40.marginal seats to defend. We certainly have, but our view is
:59:41. > :59:41.that when people are throwing in the towel at this stage we think it
:59:42. > :00:51.looks quite optimistic and Lindsay McIntosh, the
:00:52. > :03:29.Times Scottish Political Editor think again that to say that the
:03:30. > :03:36.momentum has stopped when you had a 20 point lead, this is a referendum
:03:37. > :03:41.whether people will speak and they will be heard. Except for the one
:03:42. > :03:46.poll which needs a huge health warning because of the size of the
:03:47. > :03:49.sample, the momentum is unquestionably all the way through
:03:50. > :03:56.August is going in the direction of yes. It hasn't quite continue to get
:03:57. > :03:59.to the 55/45 four yes that Alex Salmond thinks will be the result. I
:04:00. > :04:06.would agree with John. This was the momentum stalled. We saw the three
:04:07. > :04:10.leaders coming up, and that kept Alex Salmond off the front pages on
:04:11. > :04:13.the television and we had a raft of economic warnings which, although
:04:14. > :04:16.they were dismissed as scaremongering, they will have had a
:04:17. > :04:23.lot of traction with voters. What does the no campaign have to do in
:04:24. > :04:28.the final three days? It has to focus on the undecided,
:04:29. > :04:31.relentlessly. It has to do stick to the question of risk and keep
:04:32. > :04:34.pushing back on Alex Salmond to say it doesn't matter if the banks
:04:35. > :04:39.leave, it will all be all right on the night. The huge question amongst
:04:40. > :04:44.the undecided voters is about the economy. It is about jobs and
:04:45. > :04:48.currency, about business. That risk is what will crystallise in the
:04:49. > :04:52.ballot box on Thursday and that has to be the focus. What does the Yes
:04:53. > :04:56.campaign have to do? It has to drive home that the swing to the Yes
:04:57. > :05:00.campaign is motivated by people who want a different politics. They have
:05:01. > :05:02.decided amongst themselves that they want to change Scotland. The
:05:03. > :05:08.unfortunate thing is, even though the no campaign has had the chance
:05:09. > :05:12.to put up after proposals, they have failed. The Scottish people want
:05:13. > :05:16.their powers were a purpose and they say that only the Yes campaign can
:05:17. > :05:20.deliver that. There will be two days of relentless campaigning from
:05:21. > :05:22.today, Monday and Tuesday, then the media, the newspapers, including
:05:23. > :05:29.your own, will come out with the final poll, the ones that will be
:05:30. > :05:33.the closest to the day that the Scots actually go and vote. I think
:05:34. > :05:36.we will see more polling this week, but what is interesting is the
:05:37. > :05:40.extent to which the pollsters are picking up what is going on in the
:05:41. > :05:43.street. We know we have a huge number of voters who have never
:05:44. > :05:48.voted before and are not engage with politics, so what will they do? The
:05:49. > :05:52.third candidate in the election if I can would in this way, are the
:05:53. > :05:56.polls. They might have a lot of questions to answer on Friday
:05:57. > :05:59.morning. We were talking earlier with George and Tommy about the
:06:00. > :06:04.Labour Party's consequences in all of this. Gordon Brown, of course,
:06:05. > :06:08.has had a bit of a second coming as a result of this referendum. I just
:06:09. > :06:13.want to play a clip of Gordon Brown during the campaign and get a
:06:14. > :06:21.reaction. And I say this to Alex Salmond himself. Up until today I am
:06:22. > :06:24.outside front line politics. If he continues to peddle this deception,
:06:25. > :06:29.that the Scottish Parliament under his leadership, and he cannot do
:06:30. > :06:36.anything to improve the health service until he has a separate
:06:37. > :06:40.state, then I will want to join Joe Hanlon want in and securing the
:06:41. > :06:47.return of a Labour government as quickly as possible -- Johann
:06:48. > :06:50.Lamont. That was seen by some people as Gordon Brown implying he might
:06:51. > :06:54.stand for the Scottish Parliament. Whether it is yes or no, is Gordon
:06:55. > :07:00.Brown the saviour of Scottish Labour? I did a double black the
:07:01. > :07:04.other night -- double act with him the other night, and I must say he
:07:05. > :07:10.was a big beast all over again. He crossed the stage Meli dealt with
:07:11. > :07:13.the audience brilliantly. He has a certain presence, Gordon Brown, but
:07:14. > :07:20.he would really have to reinvent himself quite considerably. He is
:07:21. > :07:24.capable of doing, but the man who was the biographer of Jimmy Maxton,
:07:25. > :07:29.who pulled together the original red paper on Scotland, he would have to
:07:30. > :07:32.be that Gordon Brown rather than the Gordon Brown of some more melancholy
:07:33. > :07:35.events later. Tommy, you have both been critical of the state of the
:07:36. > :07:40.Scottish Labour Party. Rather than looking to Gordon Brown, which might
:07:41. > :07:44.be an interim solution, doesn't Scottish Labour have to find a new
:07:45. > :07:47.generation of people to reignite it? What George and I are agreed on and
:07:48. > :07:52.you have to remember this question of independence see us disagreeing
:07:53. > :07:56.passionately, and in most other things we find ourselves in
:07:57. > :07:59.agreement, one thing is clear, Scottish Labour is finished. They
:08:00. > :08:06.have lost the heart and soul of Scotland. The fact that we are
:08:07. > :08:12.discussing with four days to go an independence referendum that is neck
:08:13. > :08:14.and neck, Labour have failed miserably, absolutely miserably
:08:15. > :08:18.because they have given up everything they stood for. The SNP
:08:19. > :08:22.has picked it up. They have just taken on the bank -- mantle of a
:08:23. > :08:26.left of centre party and are picking up support. Gordon and the rest in
:08:27. > :08:29.my opinion, they represent the past. The yes vote on the Yes campaign
:08:30. > :08:35.represents the future. What do you say to that? There is nothing
:08:36. > :08:41.socialist about an SNP that wants to cut business tax by 3% in the pan.
:08:42. > :08:43.There is nothing socialist about an SNP destroying further education so
:08:44. > :08:49.they can give middle-class people free education. The Labour Party is
:08:50. > :08:54.alive and kicking. You can see if it is Gordon Brown, or Jim Murphy with
:08:55. > :08:59.the 100 days tour. But I hesitate to use this word, but they are kind of
:09:00. > :09:04.privatised from the Scottish Labour Party. They have rode their own
:09:05. > :09:07.fallow. Jim Murphy was on the stump because official Scottish Labour did
:09:08. > :09:11.not want him leading their campaign. Gordon Brown was, I think, kept off
:09:12. > :09:18.the stage until it became so critical that he had to be brought
:09:19. > :09:24.back. I agree with John, the SNP talks left but acts right. That is
:09:25. > :09:27.before they get state powers. That is what is exciting about the
:09:28. > :09:31.referendum, it's not about the SNP, it's about the people deciding. What
:09:32. > :09:34.we have heard so far in the referendum campaign is that there is
:09:35. > :09:37.a desperate yearning in the electorate for real politics,
:09:38. > :09:41.purposeful politics and for the people to be represented. It is
:09:42. > :09:45.probably to the eternal shame of labour that they gave up that role
:09:46. > :09:49.and other people are now taking it upon themselves. How would you
:09:50. > :09:53.assess the state of the Labour Party? The problem is that it was
:09:54. > :09:57.demolished by the SNP in 2011 and what they should have done since
:09:58. > :10:00.then and in other circumstances is take a real look within themselves
:10:01. > :10:04.and brought forward new talent and policies and watch out what they
:10:05. > :10:10.stood for. They've been unable to do that because they are locked in a
:10:11. > :10:14.constitutional row. It is the plan of the Nationalists to fight the
:10:15. > :10:16.first Scottish general election as an independent nation as a
:10:17. > :10:22.nationalist party with its own programme. You don't all go your own
:10:23. > :10:25.way. Why don't you do that? You have more on your main reason to be, so
:10:26. > :10:31.why not go, left, right and centre question you are presuming you don't
:10:32. > :10:34.go the one-way. I do not see the function of the SNP after the yes
:10:35. > :10:39.vote. I think it is clear that there is an SNP under Nicola Sturgeon an
:10:40. > :10:43.SNP which attracts votes from the left and that is the one for me
:10:44. > :10:46.Whether that is called the SNP or something else, I don't know. I
:10:47. > :10:50.think the assumption that we are going into a mirror of old politics
:10:51. > :10:59.in a new world is just fundamentally flawed. That is interesting. Let's
:11:00. > :11:02.just bring in the English dimensional. In many ways, England
:11:03. > :11:07.has not spoken in this referendum campaign. Whether it is yes or no,
:11:08. > :11:10.it will, and to give you a flavour of what some in England might be
:11:11. > :11:15.thinking was saying, here is a clip from John Redwood. We are fed up
:11:16. > :11:20.with this lopsided devolution, this unfair devolution. Scotland gets
:11:21. > :11:23.first-class Devolution, Wales gets second-class devolution and England
:11:24. > :11:26.gets nothing. If Wales wants the same as us, they should have it and
:11:27. > :11:30.then there would be commonality so we could discuss and decide in our
:11:31. > :11:38.own countries, in our own assemblies in Parliament, all those things that
:11:39. > :11:41.are devolved. George, it was clear that if Scotland voted yes for
:11:42. > :11:44.independence it has huge implications for England than the
:11:45. > :11:48.UK, but it's also clear particularly after Gordon Brown's intervention,
:11:49. > :11:53.even if it is no, it has huge applications. You are, I suggest,
:11:54. > :11:58.agreeing with John Redwood that there should be an English boys It
:11:59. > :12:02.would be a step too far for me to agree with him -- English voice I
:12:03. > :12:10.appreciate I might have gone out on a limb. He is the voice of Mars the
:12:11. > :12:14.Balkan from Mars. My own constituents in Bradford are asking,
:12:15. > :12:18.what about us? All these things being done, all the extra mile is
:12:19. > :12:22.being travel to Scotland, what about us? Labour would be well advised to
:12:23. > :12:29.adjust quickly on this so that the John Redwood types do not steal the
:12:30. > :12:33.show. England has yes to use -- yet to speak. It's interesting when you
:12:34. > :12:39.hear a Labour backbencher in Scotland talk about a command paper.
:12:40. > :12:43.He is not in government. Gordon Brown is going round Scotland
:12:44. > :12:46.promising things and he has absolutely no chance of delivering
:12:47. > :12:51.them. The MPs in England will say, hey, what are you talking about We
:12:52. > :12:55.have never been discussed with that? We have not agreed with that. The
:12:56. > :13:00.only way people in Scotland will get the powers they deserve is by voting
:13:01. > :13:04.yes. Crystal ball time, Tommy, you think it is 60/40. I will stick with
:13:05. > :13:09.it, because we have an unprecedented election. 97% of Scotland is
:13:10. > :13:16.registered to vote. The working class will vote in numbers never
:13:17. > :13:23.voted before. George? 55/45 for our side. And if there is a rogue poll,
:13:24. > :13:26.the tek Levesley polled -- technically flawed poll, which
:13:27. > :13:29.should not be published because it is so flawed, then we would be
:13:30. > :13:32.stretching towards what I am predicting already. I think in the
:13:33. > :13:38.last few days we will reach that. Come on. If the no campaign can get
:13:39. > :13:45.the silent majority out, they will edge it. You think they will win,
:13:46. > :13:50.but how much? They cannot give up in a second, a moment or a mile. It is
:13:51. > :13:58.that close. It will be won by the passionate view. I will go for a
:13:59. > :14:05.narrow yes victory. I'm the George, 53 or 54% in favour of Joe -- no. --
:14:06. > :14:08.I am with George. I will leave you to argue about that later. Thank you
:14:09. > :14:10.for being with us on the special Sunday politics from Edinburgh.
:14:11. > :14:12.That's all from us today in Scotland.
:14:13. > :14:14.Don't forget the Daily Politics will have continuing coverage
:14:15. > :14:17.of the referendum campaign all this week on BBC2 at midday.
:14:18. > :14:20.On Thursday night Huw Edwards will be in Glasgow and I will be
:14:21. > :14:24.in London to bring you live coverage of the results on BBC1 from 10. 0 pm
:14:25. > :14:27.on a historic night for Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom.
:14:28. > :14:30.And I'll be back next Sunday when we're live from the Labour
:14:31. > :14:38.Unless, of course, the referendum result is so tumultuous even the
:14:39. > :14:43.Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.