:00:36. > :00:41.There's another candidate in the race to become Ukip's next
:00:42. > :00:44.leader: Suzanne Evans, the party's former deputy chairman,
:00:45. > :00:50.This man might have something to say about that.
:00:51. > :00:53.Paul Nuttal was Nigel Farage's deputy for many years.
:00:54. > :00:56.So is he now ready to throw his hat in the ring?
:00:57. > :01:02.The battle for Mosul: the Iraqi army and its allies advane
:01:03. > :01:04.on the country's second city which has been in the hands of
:01:05. > :01:15.And in the Midlands, prepard for from this key clash?
:01:16. > :01:19.And in the Midlands, prepard for take-off. Forget Heathrow and
:01:20. > :01:23.Gatwick, we're talking to one of the richest cities in the
:01:24. > :01:24.world. Should all private landlords be licensed to help tackle the
:01:25. > :01:29.squalor? And with me - as always -
:01:30. > :01:32.the best and the brightest political panel in the business: Toby Young,
:01:33. > :01:35.Polly Toynbee and Tom Newton Dunn - The last leader was in the job
:01:36. > :01:44.a mere 18 days before she decided The favourite to succeed her then
:01:45. > :01:50.quit the party after a now infamous Ukip's biggest donor says the party
:01:51. > :01:55.is at "breaking point". This morning, the former
:01:56. > :02:02.Deputy Chairman, Suzanne Evans, announced that she would be
:02:03. > :02:04.running for the leadership. I've thought long and hard
:02:05. > :02:10.about this leadership bid, and one of the reasons I've perhaps
:02:11. > :02:12.delayed announcing it is because I wanted to be absolutely
:02:13. > :02:15.sure that I had the support And I can confirm that I have
:02:16. > :02:19.more than enough signatures on the nomination form already
:02:20. > :02:22.to be able to go forward. Let's not forget that 3,000 people
:02:23. > :02:26.signed a petition in support of me I know head office was besieged
:02:27. > :02:31.with letters in support. I would not be doing this
:02:32. > :02:35.if I didn't have the backing of our members, because our members
:02:36. > :02:37.are the most important Well, Paul Nuttall was
:02:38. > :02:46.Nigel Farage's deputy for many years and plenty of people saw him
:02:47. > :02:49.as a leader-in-waiting. Let's ask the man himself -
:02:50. > :03:02.Paul Nuttall joins me now. Yes. I've made the decision that I'm
:03:03. > :03:07.going to put my name forward to be the next leader of Ukip. I have huge
:03:08. > :03:11.support across the country, not only amongst people at the top of the
:03:12. > :03:16.party in Westminster and with the MEPs, but also the grassroots. I
:03:17. > :03:21.want to be the unity candidate. Ukip needs to come together. I'm not
:03:22. > :03:25.going to gild the lily. Ukip is looking over a political cliff at
:03:26. > :03:36.the moment. It will either step four step back, and I want to tell us to
:03:37. > :03:38.step backwards. You say it faces an ex-distension or threat, which means
:03:39. > :03:41.it's possible it has no future at all. Students of political history
:03:42. > :03:48.know that political parties take a long time to get going. They can
:03:49. > :03:52.disappear pretty quickly. Ukip is facing an existential crisis. What
:03:53. > :03:57.happened over the summer has put us on a... We could be on a spiral that
:03:58. > :04:02.we can't get off. But I believe I am the man to bring the factions
:04:03. > :04:06.together, to create unity within the party, and to build on the structure
:04:07. > :04:11.and get us ready for the common challenges. Why didn't you stand
:04:12. > :04:16.last time? Because I have spent the last four or five years of my life
:04:17. > :04:20.travelling around the country. I have done more Ukip meetings than
:04:21. > :04:25.anybody else, spending a lot of time away from home. With Brexit, I felt
:04:26. > :04:30.that my job and Nigel's job was done and we could hand over to the next
:04:31. > :04:34.generation. That doesn't seem to be the case, and maybe it's time for
:04:35. > :04:38.someone who is an old hand. I'm very experienced and I know the party
:04:39. > :04:43.inside out. Maybe it's time to step in and bring the party together You
:04:44. > :04:50.told the Liverpool Echo on the night of July that you didn't wish to take
:04:51. > :04:59.on Nigel Farage, you didn't want that to happen to your family and
:05:00. > :05:03.friends. What has changed? The party is facing an existential crisis and
:05:04. > :05:09.I want to make sure that Ukip is on the pitch to keep the ball into the
:05:10. > :05:16.open net we have in politics. We have a Conservative Party who is
:05:17. > :05:20.moving toward Brexit, but we have to be there too. Why would you be
:05:21. > :05:26.better than Suzanne Evans? Suzanne would be an excellent candidate I
:05:27. > :05:30.thought the 2015 manifesto was the best out of all the political
:05:31. > :05:33.parties. I would be the best candidate because of my experience.
:05:34. > :05:39.I am not part of any faction within the party. Is she? I get on well
:05:40. > :05:45.with everybody, and I believe I could be the man to bring the party
:05:46. > :05:50.together. Do you get on with Iain Banks, -- Aaron Banks, who is
:05:51. > :05:56.supporting one of your rivals? Yes, I get on well with him. He is able
:05:57. > :06:00.to choose whoever he wants to be the next leader of the party. After
:06:01. > :06:05.November 28, the leadership election, we all say, the past the
:06:06. > :06:13.past. It becomes Daisy row for the new leader. We forget all that has
:06:14. > :06:16.before and move on. You won the referendum. Mrs May is adopting some
:06:17. > :06:22.of your policies, like grammar schools. What is the point of Ukip
:06:23. > :06:26.these days? Twofold. We don't have Brexit. Mrs May said she would not
:06:27. > :06:32.invoke Article 50 until the end of March, and we don't know if that
:06:33. > :06:38.will happen. We need to ensure a strong Ukip to make sure that Brexit
:06:39. > :06:41.really does mean Brexit. We have a huge opportunity in working class
:06:42. > :06:46.communities where the Labour Party no longer represents them. I believe
:06:47. > :06:50.Ukip can become the voice of working people. If you were the leader,
:06:51. > :06:55.would Ukip be a bigger threat to Labour in the north or the Tories in
:06:56. > :06:59.the South? You save Labour in the north, and people often to make that
:07:00. > :07:03.mistake. There's working class communities right across the country
:07:04. > :07:16.is. There are working-class communities in Bristol just
:07:17. > :07:19.as in Newcastle. We are second in a number of northern seats, and
:07:20. > :07:22.southern seats as well, and I believe the party can move into
:07:23. > :07:25.these communities. It can only do so if Ukip is on the pitch, and I
:07:26. > :07:31.intend to make sure that's the case. I don't think we have portrayed a
:07:32. > :07:38.good image over the summer. Is that called British understatement? A
:07:39. > :07:43.bit. It is dysfunctional. We have to move on beyond Nigel Farage. We have
:07:44. > :07:48.to build a strong national Executive Committee. We need to ensure our
:07:49. > :07:52.branches are ready for the fight and concentrate on local elections. I've
:07:53. > :07:58.got the experience. I'm now throwing my hat into the ring, and I'm the
:07:59. > :08:02.only person who can keep Ukip in the game. What role would you give Nigel
:08:03. > :08:07.Farage, if any? I will be the candidate of compromise. I would see
:08:08. > :08:11.what Nigel wanted to do. Would you keep in the leader of the freedom
:08:12. > :08:14.and democracy group in the European Parliament? There would have to be
:08:15. > :08:21.compromise on both sides, and we would need to talk about it. I don't
:08:22. > :08:25.know what Nigel wants to do. Do you think his support, his association
:08:26. > :08:30.with Donald Trump, helps Ukip win female votes in this country?
:08:31. > :08:34.Personally, I would not have gone out and campaigned or said anything
:08:35. > :08:41.about Donald Trump, but I don't think Ukip has come out and backed
:08:42. > :08:45.Donald Trump 100%. Personally, I wouldn't have even spoken about the
:08:46. > :08:50.American election, because I think the two candidates are quite
:08:51. > :08:55.appalling. Some up for us. If you win, what would be the hallmark of
:08:56. > :09:01.your Ukip leadership? The first couple of months would be ensuring
:09:02. > :09:06.that Ukip unifies. Saying no to factions, bringing people together.
:09:07. > :09:11.Suzanne Evans, Nigel Farage, all of the MEPs, and ensuring that Ukip can
:09:12. > :09:15.move forward. If we don't unify Ukip will not be around for much
:09:16. > :09:18.longer. Thanks for being with us this morning.
:09:19. > :09:21.We won't have to wait too long to find out who Ukip's
:09:22. > :09:23.new leader will be - the winner will be announced
:09:24. > :09:32.Who would be the best leader for Ukip? I think the difference between
:09:33. > :09:36.the field a few weeks ago and today is that this field is a lot
:09:37. > :09:43.stronger. Whether it's Paul or Suzanne, I think... It is hard to
:09:44. > :09:53.say, with Aaron Banks and apparently Nigel Farage hacking another
:09:54. > :10:03.candidate, Raheem, but I want Ukip to be a strong force in British
:10:04. > :10:10.politics. I think the fact there is a stronger field now is good news
:10:11. > :10:16.for Ukip. Is it a Labour's worst nightmare in the north of England?
:10:17. > :10:19.It is. I think the personality difference and presentational
:10:20. > :10:23.difference is interesting. Suzanne Evans is going for the Conservative
:10:24. > :10:28.county vote. There's a lot to be taken there by Ukip. He would
:10:29. > :10:35.probably be more appealing to the Labour vote. It is interesting. At
:10:36. > :10:48.the moment, pollsters say that the Ukip vote splits pretty easily
:10:49. > :10:53.between Labour and Tory. But things always collapse. When they have made
:10:54. > :10:57.inroads into Tower Hamlets and Barking, they collapse, because they
:10:58. > :11:09.fight amongst each other so much. But not always with fists! Does Ukip
:11:10. > :11:14.have a future? And who would best secure that future? It does for at
:11:15. > :11:20.least two years, until we Brexit. We have to believe that that will
:11:21. > :11:24.happen. That was an impressive pitch there from Paul, certainly as the
:11:25. > :11:29.unity candidate, after the car crash we have seen on TV screens this
:11:30. > :11:33.morning. But it doesn't go beyond May 20 19. What then? There is no
:11:34. > :11:39.point being called the United Kingdom Independence party any
:11:40. > :11:44.longer. What will happen after May 2019? If you want to hoover up votes
:11:45. > :11:49.of the back of Brexit, you need to start looking further ahead than two
:11:50. > :11:54.years. The person who wins that leadership contest is the person who
:11:55. > :11:56.will sum that up the best. We shall see.
:11:57. > :11:59.In June 2014, the group which calls itself the Islamic State in Iraq
:12:00. > :12:01.and the Levant captured Iraq's second city, Mosul.
:12:02. > :12:04.Later that month the group announced it was establishing a 'caliphate',
:12:05. > :12:06.or an Islamic state, on the territories it
:12:07. > :12:15.This week 30,000 Iraqi troops, aided by Iranian-backed Shia fighters
:12:16. > :12:20.Kurdish Peshmerga and Western air support, began the assault
:12:21. > :12:38.Then they spot a truck bomb from so-called Islamic State.
:12:39. > :12:42.They destroy it before it destroys them.
:12:43. > :12:45.These are the first steps in the battle for Mosul,
:12:46. > :12:50.the Northern Iraqi city IS has made its stronghold since 2014.
:12:51. > :12:55.Controlling the city of around 2 million people means
:12:56. > :12:59.that they established governance, they establish a territorial base.
:13:00. > :13:02.This is what has obsessed everyone, because with a territorial base
:13:03. > :13:07.you are capable of doing more than if you are simply an insurgency
:13:08. > :13:11.movement in the fabric of another society.
:13:12. > :13:15.It's being billed as the biggest military operation in Iraq
:13:16. > :13:19.since the war in 2003, the biggest moment in the international effort
:13:20. > :13:25.Here is how the various forces are approaching the city.
:13:26. > :13:29.Heading to Mosul from the south the elite troops of the Iraqi army.
:13:30. > :13:31.Known as the Golden division, trained and accompanied
:13:32. > :13:38.From the North, a force made up of Kurds, known as the Peshmerga,
:13:39. > :13:44.Also from the South, a militia made up of Shia fighters
:13:45. > :13:47.who have been accused of human rights abuses.
:13:48. > :13:50.British planes have bombed outlying villages, reportedly guided
:13:51. > :13:57.in by British personnel on the ground.
:13:58. > :14:00.To the North West, a corridor has been left for some
:14:01. > :14:02.of the 3000 plus IS fighters, in theory an escape route
:14:03. > :14:05.which could limit the bloodshed when fighting starts in the city.
:14:06. > :14:08.We've had 4-5 days of battle and it's taking place
:14:09. > :14:10.in the outlying villages and there have been some
:14:11. > :14:13.successes and some failures, but the momentum is building.
:14:14. > :14:16.And the real question will be when the attackers get
:14:17. > :14:20.towards the city itself, how strong are the defences?
:14:21. > :14:27.It will crack but it might crack within 48 hours or 2-3 weeks.
:14:28. > :14:32.IS has fought back, on Friday they attack sites
:14:33. > :14:34.in the city of Kirkuk, including a power station.
:14:35. > :14:36.The United Nations believes hundreds of thousands of families
:14:37. > :14:39.have been rounded up as potential human shields.
:14:40. > :14:44.The battle could be bloody, but what about when it's over?
:14:45. > :14:46.The Shia militias, the Iraqi army, the Peshmerga guerrillas,
:14:47. > :14:49.some of the Turkish elements, they all want a share of the action.
:14:50. > :14:53.They are in Mosul, not for altruistic reasons.
:14:54. > :14:56.They are there because they want to be part of whatever happens next.
:14:57. > :15:01.The biggest issue is how the Sunni majority in Mosul reacts to the Shia
:15:02. > :15:05.militias which have helped to liberate them.
:15:06. > :15:07.ARCHIVE FOOTAGE: When Sir Francis Humphrey went to Mosul
:15:08. > :15:11.If it all seems like something from the archive, when the Middle
:15:12. > :15:14.East went up in flames and was then carved up,
:15:15. > :15:18.it is because that is what is happening in Iraq right now.
:15:19. > :15:22.National identity has been cut across by other identities such
:15:23. > :15:33.And that means that putting together a so-called nation state again
:15:34. > :15:38.Almost certainly there will be a new form of Kurdish state,
:15:39. > :15:41.almost certainly in northern Iraq at the end of this crisis,
:15:42. > :15:44.and what is happening in Mosul is a microcosm of what is happening
:15:45. > :15:48.elsewhere across the Levant which is that it is melting down.
:15:49. > :15:51.Big questions, questions that come after the battle.
:15:52. > :15:53.The coalition forces are advancing but this is just the beginning.
:15:54. > :16:03.I'm joined now by the International Development Minister Rory Stewart.
:16:04. > :16:06.In a former life he was the coalition Deputy-Governor of two
:16:07. > :16:14.provinces in Southern Iraq following the Iraq intervention of 2003.
:16:15. > :16:24.Is there any doubt that at some stage Mosul will fall to the forces
:16:25. > :16:33.of Iraq and its allies? The first thing is that war is very uncertain
:16:34. > :16:36.and there are cliches about it being the graveyard of predictions and we
:16:37. > :16:41.don't want to make confident predictions but the basic structure
:16:42. > :16:51.is that there are 30,000 Iraqi forces outside and only a few
:16:52. > :16:53.thousand Daesh fighters inside and I would say it is overwhelmingly
:16:54. > :17:01.likely that the batter will one STUDIO: -- the battle the won by the
:17:02. > :17:09.Iraqi forces. June 2014 was a great success, they
:17:10. > :17:15.took a city of over in people and they created what they tried to
:17:16. > :17:18.create a million state of 7 million people, stretching across the Iraqi
:17:19. > :17:23.Syrian border, but since then they have lost territory quite rapidly.
:17:24. > :17:28.Now they are losing the outskirts of Mosul, and that is a fundamental
:17:29. > :17:30.blow. Islamic State is all about territory and holding state, that is
:17:31. > :17:38.what makes it different from Al-Qaeda. If they lose Mosul that
:17:39. > :17:42.will be a cynic -- significant blow to their credibility. Hillary
:17:43. > :17:46.Clinton said on Wednesday's presidential debate that when Iraqi
:17:47. > :17:50.forces with their allies including the United Kingdom gain control of
:17:51. > :17:56.Mosul they should continue to press into Syria to take back Raqqa which
:17:57. > :18:02.is the de facto capital of the caliphate, what is left of it, do we
:18:03. > :18:09.want Iraqi forces to pursue IS into Syria? Very important question.
:18:10. > :18:11.Delayed in Raqqa needs to come from people on the Syrian side of the
:18:12. > :18:17.border and that is an important principle -- the lead. In the end of
:18:18. > :18:22.that enemy, Islamic State, is a common enemy for odd members of the
:18:23. > :18:30.coalition including the Iraqi government. -- all members. There is
:18:31. > :18:33.likely to be a humanitarian crisis especially if it ends up with street
:18:34. > :18:39.to street fighting and IS are difficult to dislodge what are we
:18:40. > :18:43.doing about that? We are doing very detailed scenario planning. It is
:18:44. > :18:48.very uncertain what the scenario will be but much investment has gone
:18:49. > :18:58.into creating a network of camps, refugees STUDIO: Refugee camps
:18:59. > :19:03.around cash refugee camps, and that is where money, British money, 40
:19:04. > :19:07.million has gone recently into supporting that, especially in terms
:19:08. > :19:15.of medical support to people. The United nation's emergency response
:19:16. > :19:17.budget is ?196 million but only one third funded which sounds like we
:19:18. > :19:22.are putting up a big chunk of what is already being funded. Why is
:19:23. > :19:25.that? The international committee can't say they haven't seen this
:19:26. > :19:32.assault coming, and the humanitarian fallout they may see from it. You
:19:33. > :19:36.are absolutely right. We have seen it coming and we have been planning
:19:37. > :19:41.since debris and we have put in about ?167 million into this --
:19:42. > :19:45.planning since February. There has been a change in the nature of the
:19:46. > :19:49.appeal, and if there is a lag in the accounting of it, but the money we
:19:50. > :19:53.need at this stage is in place and we do have the support structure in
:19:54. > :19:56.place for those refugees. You are right the United Nations is
:19:57. > :20:00.continuing with its appeal and is asking for more money at the moment.
:20:01. > :20:04.The converse magazine wrote this week that preparations for a big
:20:05. > :20:10.exodus of people leaving the city have been made -- Economist
:20:11. > :20:15.magazine. But confidence is not high in the preparations, is that a
:20:16. > :20:19.unfair conclusion? If you can imagine the different scenarios it
:20:20. > :20:22.could be a few thousand and it could be a few hundred thousand coming out
:20:23. > :20:27.of the city through a front line where the war is going on, that is
:20:28. > :20:30.very difficult. You have to screen those people and disarm them, and
:20:31. > :20:34.keep families together, and transport them and you have to bring
:20:35. > :20:38.them into the refugee camps. The people working on this have been
:20:39. > :20:42.working on this for long time, we have mapped the different routes we
:20:43. > :20:48.have good camp infrastructure in place and we have people who have
:20:49. > :20:52.worked in south to dam and other areas who are putting their
:20:53. > :20:55.structures in place -- South Sudan. It is never easy but I think we have
:20:56. > :21:00.done everything we can in the preparation for this. What is the
:21:01. > :21:06.British role in what will probably be an even bigger issue, assuming
:21:07. > :21:12.that Mosul is liberated and retaken, the humanitarian crisis is dealt
:21:13. > :21:18.with, what role will we play in the rebuilding of Mosul? That will be
:21:19. > :21:23.crucial to the future of Iraq, the second-biggest city and it will need
:21:24. > :21:28.to be rebuilt. It will need to be rebuilt as a community as well as
:21:29. > :21:32.bricks and mortar. And eight Sunni community that is not harassed by
:21:33. > :21:39.the Shia. -- and eight. You are right. One of the core drivers is
:21:40. > :21:42.that the Sunni community felt excluded and they did not feel they
:21:43. > :21:48.have the trust from the Baghdad government. A lasting solution is
:21:49. > :21:53.stopping some of Islamic State coming back, that involves making
:21:54. > :21:57.sure the Sunni community have a stake in their future. That is
:21:58. > :22:03.making sure that the governing structures are in place. The UK s
:22:04. > :22:08.response is twofold, we have got to get the humanitarian aid right, that
:22:09. > :22:12.is the short term, people who might be malnourished, coming out of the
:22:13. > :22:16.front line. The second thing is working with the Iraqi government to
:22:17. > :22:20.make sure that as we rebuild Mosul we do so in a way that that
:22:21. > :22:27.population feels a connection to the Iraqi state. Islamic State is losing
:22:28. > :22:32.territory everywhere in the Levant, it is almost finished in Iraq, we
:22:33. > :22:38.think. It is down to one district in Libya, as well, just one small part
:22:39. > :22:42.of the town. I suppose the risk is, if life is becoming more difficult
:22:43. > :22:48.across these areas, it can start to look more in Europe and the United
:22:49. > :22:54.Kingdom as a place to continue its terrorist attacks? That is a real
:22:55. > :22:58.danger. You are right. This is a group which has proved over the last
:22:59. > :23:04.five years very unpredictable and it changes for it quickly full stop
:23:05. > :23:09.often it does unexpected things In 2009 its predecessor had been
:23:10. > :23:13.largely wiped out in Iraq and when it was under pressure in Syria it
:23:14. > :23:17.went back into Iraq, and in the past it didn't hold territory but now it
:23:18. > :23:20.holds territory, so you are right. There is a serious risk that as it
:23:21. > :23:24.gets squeezed in the middle East it will try to pop up somewhere else
:23:25. > :23:29.and Mac could include Europe and the United States -- that could. They
:23:30. > :23:35.say that is something they have focused on full stop we also have a
:23:36. > :23:37.big focus on counterterrorism security and making sure that we
:23:38. > :23:49.keep the United Kingdom and Europe say. One final question. -- say --
:23:50. > :23:52.safe. Maybe events in Mosul could add to the migration crisis in
:23:53. > :24:00.Europe, is that a possibility? Again, you are right, we have seen
:24:01. > :24:02.in Syria it can push migration, the biggest push the migration was the
:24:03. > :24:05.conflict in Syria, and that's the reason why we have but so much
:24:06. > :24:10.energy into getting those refugee camps in place and getting the
:24:11. > :24:15.humanitarian response in place - put so much energy. People will want
:24:16. > :24:18.to remain in their homes, this is their country, but we have got to
:24:19. > :24:22.make it possible for them and that means in the short term looking
:24:23. > :24:25.after their shelter and in the medium to long-term making sure they
:24:26. > :24:31.have livelihoods, jobs and an economic development which is why
:24:32. > :24:34.our support in Iraq is in the UK National interests because it deals
:24:35. > :24:42.with these issues of migration and terrorists. Thanks for joining us.
:24:43. > :24:49.I'm joined now by the Shadow Defence Secretary.
:24:50. > :25:01.Does Labour support British participation in this offensive We
:25:02. > :25:05.fully support the participation in this offensive, extremely important
:25:06. > :25:11.move forward and we voted for this back in 2014. We are asking the
:25:12. > :25:14.government question is, of course, I was asking the Secretary of State
:25:15. > :25:20.this week about this very offensive but we are fully behind our RAF
:25:21. > :25:25.pilots out there and be trading that has been going on to help the forces
:25:26. > :25:29.on the ground. -- the training full stop that is very clear. I wonder if
:25:30. > :25:36.you'll lead it shares that clarity and that position. -- is your
:25:37. > :25:38.leader. This is what Jeremy Corbyn has said.
:25:39. > :25:40.What's been done in Iraq is done by the Iraqi
:25:41. > :25:42.government, and currently supported by the British government.
:25:43. > :25:44.I did not support it when it came up.
:25:45. > :25:48.Well, I'm not sure how successful it's been, because most
:25:49. > :25:52.of the action now appears to be moving in to Syria, so I think we
:25:53. > :26:01.He doesn't sound very supportive. The issue about Mosul, it has been
:26:02. > :26:04.very carefully prepared as Rory Stewart said and I hope we have
:26:05. > :26:09.learned the lessons from previous offensives where we haven't learnt
:26:10. > :26:13.sufficiently, and that is going to be crucial in this context. How the
:26:14. > :26:19.aftermath is going to be dealt with. Of course will stop that clip was
:26:20. > :26:26.from November last year, and things have changed. Two weeks ago he told
:26:27. > :26:31.the BBC" I'm not sure it is working", in reference to air
:26:32. > :26:34.strikes in Iraq, but it is working. We have got to see what happens in
:26:35. > :26:37.Mosul, it is a very high-risk operation, but we also have to face
:26:38. > :26:42.the fact that the people there are living under tyranny at the moment.
:26:43. > :26:50.We have to ask very cirrus question shall stop he says he's not sure it
:26:51. > :26:54.is working, when Mosul is the last major target be cleared of Islamic
:26:55. > :26:58.State in Iraq. The combination of Allied air power has worked, why is
:26:59. > :27:04.he not sure it is working? Because we have seen difficulties in the
:27:05. > :27:08.past. But this was two weeks ago. It is essential that the work is done,
:27:09. > :27:11.both planning for the refugees as Rory Stewart referred to, but also
:27:12. > :27:17.in terms of reconstruction of the city and its community as you
:27:18. > :27:20.mentioned. These are vital. This was about the ability to make progress
:27:21. > :27:26.with Allied air power, special forces in Iraq, on the ground, do
:27:27. > :27:38.you accept so far that has a strategy that seems to be working to
:27:39. > :27:47.read Iraq of Islamic -- to read Iraq of Islamic State the question of the
:27:48. > :27:54.car began placement. Ulloa -- we can't be complacent. The problems
:27:55. > :27:59.they are creating where ever they are urged that we must continue to
:28:00. > :28:03.pursue them. This is the first time we have spoken to since you have
:28:04. > :28:07.become the Shadow Defence Secretary. I hope we will have a longer
:28:08. > :28:14.interview. Will Labour's next manifesto include a commitment to
:28:15. > :28:17.the renewal of Trident? It will We made that commitment in 2007, that
:28:18. > :28:21.is a firm commitment and we will honour that to our coalition allies
:28:22. > :28:25.and our industrial partners and that is the vote which was taken
:28:26. > :28:28.democratically and repeatedly has been reaffirmed by Labour conference
:28:29. > :28:37.and we are a democratic party vote up you have squared that with Jeremy
:28:38. > :28:40.Corbyn? He's in favour of democracy and he understands the situation,
:28:41. > :28:44.but we also want to push for the UK to play a much bigger role on the
:28:45. > :28:50.international stage on multilateral disarmament talks. You were very
:28:51. > :28:54.clear there, I thank you for that. Support for Trident will be in the
:28:55. > :28:59.next Labour manifesto. What has happened to Labour's review of
:29:00. > :29:03.Trident policy? That review has been taking place over the year, we had a
:29:04. > :29:07.very clear reaffirmation in the conference boat this year, we are
:29:08. > :29:15.reaffirming our commitment to Trident -- vote. The review can t
:29:16. > :29:18.change that? There is a process of review and a fair number of issues
:29:19. > :29:25.related to defence, all parties do this. Of course. The review can t
:29:26. > :29:29.change the commitment to Trident? We are not changing the commitment to
:29:30. > :29:33.Trident. Russia is now the main strategic threat to this country? It
:29:34. > :29:36.is a major strategic threat and we have got to work with our Nato
:29:37. > :29:41.allies very closely and make sure that we respond and that we do not
:29:42. > :29:44.let things pass. For example, we should be calling out Russia for the
:29:45. > :29:49.way it has been a bombing humanitarian aid and we should be
:29:50. > :29:54.taking them to international court over this, but we should also be
:29:55. > :29:59.strengthening sanctions, somewhat imposed over Ukraine. We try to do
:30:00. > :30:04.that, but the Italians wouldn't let us. The Italians did not want to
:30:05. > :30:09.participate in the European initiative but that doesn't stop
:30:10. > :30:14.individual countries for the Britain should step up? Yes, we should look
:30:15. > :30:20.at what is practical to impose. Thanks for joining us.
:30:21. > :30:23.Mosul is not the only major battle being waged in the Middle East.
:30:24. > :30:26.The city of Aleppo in northern Syria has seen some of the heaviest
:30:27. > :30:29.bombardment since Syria's five-year-long civil war began.
:30:30. > :30:32.This week Russian warships, in a deliberate show of power,
:30:33. > :30:36.sailed west through the English channel en route to Syria.
:30:37. > :30:39.Nato says it's Russia's "largest surface deployment" since the end
:30:40. > :30:42.of the Cold War in what is thought to be preparation
:30:43. > :30:46.for a final assault on the besieged city of Aleppo.
:30:47. > :30:50.In the city itself fighting resumed overnight -
:30:51. > :30:55.following a 3-day ceasefire - with more air strikes and heavy
:30:56. > :30:58.clashes in the city's rebel-held eastern districts.
:30:59. > :31:01.Almost 500 people have been killed and 2,000 injured
:31:02. > :31:05.since Syrian government forces, backed by Russian air strikes,
:31:06. > :31:13.This week Theresa May condemned Vladimir Putin's involvement
:31:14. > :31:15.in Syria, accusing Moscow of being behind "sickening
:31:16. > :31:18.atrocities" in support of President Assad's regime.
:31:19. > :31:23.But European leaders are divided on how to respond and,
:31:24. > :31:25.with the United States preoccupied with domestic politics,
:31:26. > :31:29.President Putin senses this is his moment to bring the Syrian
:31:30. > :31:37.I'm joined now by the BBC's former Diplomatic and Moscow Correspondent,
:31:38. > :31:45.Bridget Kendall, who is now Master of Peterhouse College in Cambridge.
:31:46. > :31:53.Welcome. Good to see you in the BBC studio again. Let me put up this
:31:54. > :32:00.satellite image of Aleppo here, to get an idea of the scale. It was the
:32:01. > :32:05.biggest city in Syria. It was the commercial capital and a huge
:32:06. > :32:09.cultural hub as well. Almost the New York of Syria, to give you an idea
:32:10. > :32:15.of its significance to the country. Let me show you now how it's been
:32:16. > :32:23.divided. The rebels are now in control of the eastern part, about
:32:24. > :32:25.eight miles long and three miles wide there, they're in purple. They
:32:26. > :32:33.are under great attacks still. Is it inevitable that that purple part
:32:34. > :32:38.falls to the regime? That is what President as Saad, the Russians and
:32:39. > :32:45.the Iranians hope. The fierce bombardments we have seen is part of
:32:46. > :32:51.that. I'm reminded very much in the Russian tactics of what happened in
:32:52. > :32:56.grudgingly in Chechnya in 2000, when the Russians said, a warning for all
:32:57. > :33:01.civilians to lead, and then they went ahead and they basically raised
:33:02. > :33:06.it to the ground. They are talking about Al Nusrah as being one of the
:33:07. > :33:10.rebel groups. They got rid of all of the terrorists. They talk about it
:33:11. > :33:15.being an Al-Qaeda offshoot. The purpose of going in is to get rid of
:33:16. > :33:20.them. You get the civilians out and then you take it. But this isn't
:33:21. > :33:25.like Chechnya. It is much more complex. We have seen an attempt to
:33:26. > :33:30.take Aleppo before, and then there was a rebel counter offensive. It's
:33:31. > :33:33.not so certain. And there are so many different parties involved We
:33:34. > :33:37.have seen the alarm in the west of the extent of the civilian
:33:38. > :33:47.casualties. There have been rumblings in the west of, shouldn't
:33:48. > :33:49.the United States do something? Shouldn't they stop the Syrian air
:33:50. > :33:53.force? This Russian aircraft carrier steaming its way towards the Eastern
:33:54. > :34:01.Mediterranean is a symbolic gesture, both to its own people, but also to
:34:02. > :34:06.the West, to say, don't get involved in Aleppo if we go ahead. Don't try
:34:07. > :34:11.and stop us because we could up the ante. They have not been great
:34:12. > :34:16.visual pictures, because the aircraft carrier looks a bit clapped
:34:17. > :34:23.out, belching out smoke! If the rebel controlled area does fall it
:34:24. > :34:27.would be seen as a great victory for President as Saad and his Russian
:34:28. > :34:32.allies. What is the aim of Russia here? What would they then do, if
:34:33. > :34:37.Aleppo Falls? It is part of a plan that President Putin set out in his
:34:38. > :34:42.UN speech in 2014, before Russia went into Syria. The aim is to put
:34:43. > :34:47.President Assad back in charge. President Putin said this weekend
:34:48. > :34:52.that either is Assad in Damascus, or its Al Nusrah. There is nothing in
:34:53. > :34:58.between. They want to eliminate the argument for a moderate opposition.
:34:59. > :35:05.They want to make it plain that the only way to get a stable Syria is to
:35:06. > :35:14.have Assad back in charge. Even sue argue for a rump steak lit, leaving
:35:15. > :35:19.aside what is happening with IAS. They have already said they want to
:35:20. > :35:24.have an enlarged military presence at their bases. And they have a big
:35:25. > :35:29.naval base. It is. It is a chance to push for this when he sees the West
:35:30. > :35:37.is being distracted and divided Europe and America, by elections and
:35:38. > :35:41.so on. Just before the US elections. The Americans are worried about
:35:42. > :35:46.that, Europeans are being distracted by Brexit. He can push to his
:35:47. > :35:54.maximum advantage now, before there is a new US president. If they do
:35:55. > :36:03.take that part of Aleppo, and that part of northern Syria, does Mr
:36:04. > :36:08.Putin want us to recognise, to admit, that that is now his sphere
:36:09. > :36:13.of influence? I think the rhetoric from the Russians is that they want
:36:14. > :36:17.the West to recognise that they are an equal powerful partner. It's not
:36:18. > :36:23.just the US that runs the writ in the Middle East. Russia is as
:36:24. > :36:28.important as it is. It is engaging with Saudi Arabia and has mended
:36:29. > :36:34.fences with Turkey. Syria is the place from which it can launch its
:36:35. > :36:39.message that it is a big player in the Middle East. Russia wants the
:36:40. > :36:42.West to understand that this isn't a country that was dismembered after
:36:43. > :36:47.the end of the Soviet Union and is now a week. It is back, and it is
:36:48. > :36:54.strong. That is an important message. Looking at the economy It
:36:55. > :36:59.is in recession. GDP has been falling, partly because of the price
:37:00. > :37:04.of oil. It is highly dependent on hydrocarbons, and is expected to
:37:05. > :37:09.fall again. Its people are falling again. People don't realise how
:37:10. > :37:16.small the Russian economy is. Its GDP is about the size of Italy's. It
:37:17. > :37:24.is smaller than the UK economy. Bigger than it was 15 or 20 years
:37:25. > :37:29.ago. But so is Britain's does it help to take people's mind of this?
:37:30. > :37:35.A huge shock to the Russian economy was a drop in the price of oil and a
:37:36. > :37:41.price of gas. A drop in the price of the ruble as well. This is hurting
:37:42. > :37:46.the people of Russia. On the one hand, it is the war in Syria, which
:37:47. > :37:51.is very important for Russia to sort out that part of the world and
:37:52. > :37:58.dispensed terrorists who might be danger to -- is dangerous to Russia.
:37:59. > :38:03.But he had also has presidential election is going up. They are
:38:04. > :38:07.supposed to be 2018, but some feel he will bring them forward to 2 17,
:38:08. > :38:12.because the economy is not doing so well. But you need a good story for
:38:13. > :38:15.the Russian people. Thank you very much.
:38:16. > :38:25.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now
:38:26. > :38:28.Welcome to the Sunday Politics in the Midl`nds
:38:29. > :38:32.The headmaster who says the Prime Minister's 'wasting' money
:38:33. > :38:37.on grammar schools while le`ving academies like his short of cash.
:38:38. > :38:40.And forget Heathrow and Gatwick - we'll be speaking to the Midlands
:38:41. > :38:45.mayoral candidate who wants a second runway at Birmingh`m.
:38:46. > :38:47.Our guests today are Neena Gill Labour MEP for the West Midlands
:38:48. > :38:50.and the Conservative MP for Rugby, Mark Pawsey.
:38:51. > :38:57.And we start this week with criticism over police cuts
:38:58. > :38:59.The West Midlands Police and Crime Commissioner David
:39:00. > :39:01.Jamieson says his force has seen its budget shrink by
:39:02. > :39:08.Mr Jamieson says crime is "changing not falling", highlighting
:39:09. > :39:11.an increase in sexual offences and fraud.
:39:12. > :39:14.And his comments come as the latest official figures,
:39:15. > :39:20.In the West Midlands force `rea it's risen by 6% in the last year.
:39:21. > :39:24.In Staffordshire and West Mdrcia it's up by 13%,
:39:25. > :39:28.and there was an 11% rise in Warwickshire.
:39:29. > :39:30.Although Gloucestershire has somewhat bucked the trend -
:39:31. > :39:45.Mark, starting with you. Crhme up by 11% in Warwickshire, other police
:39:46. > :39:50.being underfunded by this government?
:39:51. > :39:54.Crime is in fact done by ond quarter since 2010, so we know that the
:39:55. > :39:58.direction of travel in general is right.
:39:59. > :40:03.The latest figures show it hs up by 9% across the region.
:40:04. > :40:11.There is a new method of reporting crime. It is entirely right that
:40:12. > :40:15.people are coming forward. That was always going to present itsdlf in a
:40:16. > :40:20.change in the figures. Neena Gill, is this the point, cuts
:40:21. > :40:24.the police are spending the money in the wrong places because crhme has
:40:25. > :40:30.changed, we do not need thel out on the beat, we need them on kdyboards?
:40:31. > :40:38.I don't accept that, 126 million has been cut. This is a way to dnsure
:40:39. > :40:47.that crime is addressed. Of course crime is changing, but we nded to
:40:48. > :40:52.also be catering, nothing bdats local community police officers that
:40:53. > :40:58.are out there. David Jamieson is right, he has got fewer and fewer
:40:59. > :41:03.resources, and it is very h`rd to actually tackle crime if yot haven't
:41:04. > :41:07.got people. You cannot get away from th`t, Mark.
:41:08. > :41:14.Mr Jamieson is saying, crimd is going up, my funding is going down.
:41:15. > :41:19.Crime has fallen but it is reassuring for people to sed...
:41:20. > :41:27.Not according to these figures. It is changing, I know from my own
:41:28. > :41:30.caseload, fraud is a big issue. It is not dealt with by just one police
:41:31. > :41:32.force. Are you not worried, these figures
:41:33. > :41:36.seem to show that the tide hs seem to show that the tide hs
:41:37. > :41:41.turning? Are you concerned that the trend in crime might start turning
:41:42. > :41:45.the other way. We need to look at the longdr term
:41:46. > :41:49.trend, which has gone on thd right direction. That is not to s`y we
:41:50. > :41:54.should be complacent. We have put a lot of effort into those individuals
:41:55. > :41:57.who have been affected by crime We have seen evidence across the
:41:58. > :42:03.West Midlands that crime is increasing, and so even if ht is
:42:04. > :42:09.changing, we are still not `ble to address the causes. Whether it is
:42:10. > :42:12.fraud or online... We want to make certain we have got
:42:13. > :42:20.the resources to deal with the crane being reported. -- crime. It shows
:42:21. > :42:24.that people have got more confidence in coming forward and talking about
:42:25. > :42:26.things that many years ago would have been swept under the c`rpet.
:42:27. > :42:28.Thanks, we will leave it thdre. Now, Brexit aside, Theresa Lay has
:42:29. > :42:31.made the reintroduction of state grammar schools her biggest idea
:42:32. > :42:34.since taking over at Number Ten David Cameron had shied awax
:42:35. > :42:36.from the issue despite pressure from Ukip, and his own membdrs,
:42:37. > :42:39.to bring them back. But it's a policy that isn't
:42:40. > :42:41.popular with everyone. Labour has united to condemn
:42:42. > :42:44.a return to what it calls And the headteacher at one
:42:45. > :42:49.Worcester Academy says it mdans schools like his
:42:50. > :42:53.will be starved of money. In Birmingham, these childrdn
:42:54. > :43:04.are being coached to help Going in there I felt scared
:43:05. > :43:14.because I felt really nervots. But now, I said that I'm fedling
:43:15. > :43:19.that I'm going to get into grammar school, but if I don't,
:43:20. > :43:23.then it is not a problem. In Birmingham there are ten
:43:24. > :43:27.children put forward But with those places limitdd,
:43:28. > :43:32.who goes to grammar schools like King Edward VI in Aston
:43:33. > :43:35.is important, particularly how many children from
:43:36. > :43:39.disadvantaged backgrounds. Across the country there
:43:40. > :43:43.are 163 grammar schools. But only around half of thel make
:43:44. > :43:46.a priority of attracting chhldren And this school is one of only 1
:43:47. > :43:52.across the country who actu`lly have a quota system to incrdase
:43:53. > :43:54.the number of children We think it is very important
:43:55. > :44:00.that our schools are accesshble to all children in Birmingh`m,
:44:01. > :44:02.whatever their backgrounds, to those that have got the `bility
:44:03. > :44:05.to come here and benefit We are really keen to make sure
:44:06. > :44:10.that we get as many disadvantaged Critics of the grammar school system
:44:11. > :44:14.say that it actually increases inequality, because if
:44:15. > :44:16.your child does not get in No, because there are fantastic
:44:17. > :44:23.comprehensives that they can go to. And we do not see someone that does
:44:24. > :44:26.not get into a grammar school, it is not about failing that
:44:27. > :44:29.and being consigned It is just a different
:44:30. > :44:32.type of school. I mean, we don't think
:44:33. > :44:33.that grammar schools are better than other schools,
:44:34. > :44:36.we just do a different job But pressure for places
:44:37. > :44:40.in Birmingham is one thing. Over in Worcestershire,
:44:41. > :44:41.there are no grammar schools, and some headteachers say
:44:42. > :44:44.there are more important We are reducing the courses we can
:44:45. > :44:48.offer, budgets are being cut by 25% in the school,
:44:49. > :44:51.and the final thing I have got is redundancies of very,
:44:52. > :44:54.very good teachers. We just got record results
:44:55. > :44:57.for the third year in a row, yet I am looking at cuts,
:44:58. > :44:59.and then they say, well we will find 50 million
:45:00. > :45:02.for grammar schools. So, in Birmingham, they havd grammar
:45:03. > :45:04.schools and for every place Does that not sure
:45:05. > :45:08.that it is very popular? Well, I would argue stronglx
:45:09. > :45:12.that there are some brilliant state schools in Birmingham,
:45:13. > :45:14.where I worked for ten years, and I would argue strongly
:45:15. > :45:17.that the Finnish system, which is the system they always hold
:45:18. > :45:20.up, and the Finnish governmdnt have made a commitment to get th`t right,
:45:21. > :45:23.rather than having these different Grammar schools are certainly
:45:24. > :45:28.popular, but their supporters need to answer two big questions -
:45:29. > :45:32.whose children get to go to grammar school, and what happens
:45:33. > :45:44.to those that don't? Right, Mark, I know you went to
:45:45. > :45:48.grammar school, and there are three new constituency, not all
:45:49. > :45:53.conservatives are in favour of grammar schools. Mark Bridgdr
:45:54. > :45:57.current -- Mark Pritchard. Weirder you stand?
:45:58. > :46:01.I am a supporter. Nobody is I am a supporter. Nobody is
:46:02. > :46:05.insisting where grammar schools are installed where they are not wanted.
:46:06. > :46:09.There are large numbers that apply to the grammar schools. I al very
:46:10. > :46:13.keen that we have a smart tdst that we can make sure we get the
:46:14. > :46:16.brightest and most capable children. I want to see more children from
:46:17. > :46:21.disadvantaged backgrounds gdtting into these wonderful and excellent
:46:22. > :46:25.schools. They are brilliant schools. Somebody said to you, we have got
:46:26. > :46:28.these great schools, but we're going to stop them from expanding, you
:46:29. > :46:33.would think that was a little disingenuous. If you have got great
:46:34. > :46:38.schools like grammar schools, let's expand them for more opporttnities.
:46:39. > :46:45.They are terrifically poplar -- popular. If they are making an
:46:46. > :46:48.effort to bring children in from disadvantaged backgrounds, what is
:46:49. > :46:52.wrong with that? There is no evidence that grammar
:46:53. > :46:57.schools actually increase social mobility and inclusion. What I am
:46:58. > :47:01.concerned about is that we need to address education, but we should
:47:02. > :47:05.stop being focused on the structure of education. This was not dven in
:47:06. > :47:09.the Tory manifesto as to whdther they were going to address ht, so it
:47:10. > :47:14.has come from nowhere. My concern is that we have got to increasd our
:47:15. > :47:19.education, especially with Brexit, to ensure that there are skhlls
:47:20. > :47:23.everywhere, all schools are performing, and that is where the
:47:24. > :47:26.focus should be going. That we have schools that can deliver. There are
:47:27. > :47:34.some good examples of gramm`r is working, King Edward, to
:47:35. > :47:40.transferable skills and bring them up. That is fine. But I think this
:47:41. > :47:46.idea of somebody taking 50 lillion and putting that away and t`king it
:47:47. > :47:50.from well performing academhes, I think it is wrong.
:47:51. > :47:55.The truth is, Mark, in somewhere like Birmingham, a huge indtstry is
:47:56. > :48:00.built up around tutoring. Middle-class parents to thehr
:48:01. > :48:06.children to get them into the schools. That does not help social
:48:07. > :48:10.mobility, does it? I'm very much in favour of ` smarter
:48:11. > :48:13.test. We need to get the right school for the right child, and that
:48:14. > :48:18.is where the development will come. One of the frustrations we have in
:48:19. > :48:24.Rugby is with our three excdllent grammar schools. There are fewer
:48:25. > :48:32.places available for childrdn from Rugby. It was a local decishon made
:48:33. > :48:37.in Rugby. The politicians in Rugby who fought to keep grammar schools
:48:38. > :48:41.did so for the benefit of children in B.
:48:42. > :48:46.Only 4% of children from deprived neighbourhoods make it to grammar.
:48:47. > :48:53.But some of the schools are making a big effort to try and bring...
:48:54. > :48:56.But it does not address the inequality, and if you take money
:48:57. > :49:01.away from schools which alrdady are feeling cuts, you're going to mean
:49:02. > :49:06.the rest of them are going to fall further.
:49:07. > :49:11.That is a fair point. Children come from huge areas to go to thd
:49:12. > :49:14.schools, you are getting thd brightest children, and you are now
:49:15. > :49:20.talking about using funding for new grammar schools which could be going
:49:21. > :49:27.to other schools, could be going to the regular comprehensive and
:49:28. > :49:34.We want to allow existing grammars We want to allow existing grammars
:49:35. > :49:41.for... for...
:49:42. > :49:46.There is a snobbery factor `gain. It is the most superb leg up and
:49:47. > :49:51.will set them up for life. It was not in the manifesto, nobody
:49:52. > :49:54.was expecting this? There is more freedom in edtcation
:49:55. > :49:59.now. We have got academies, and the ability for academies to select part
:50:00. > :50:00.of their intake is a logical progression for the academy
:50:01. > :50:04.programme. programme.
:50:05. > :50:08.It will lead to a huge uphe`val That means that teachers, instead of
:50:09. > :50:15.focusing on making sure thex are turning out the next generation of
:50:16. > :50:19.engineers and others, they `re going to be focusing...
:50:20. > :50:24.But perhaps great for bright children from normal backgrounds?
:50:25. > :50:27.Great children will thrive hn most schools provided they have the
:50:28. > :50:30.resources. If you take thosd resources away from those children
:50:31. > :50:35.who may be, for whatever re`son cannot get to those schools, are
:50:36. > :50:39.going to struggle. It is always a hot topic, wd will
:50:40. > :50:40.have to leave it there. Now, it's the political dechsion
:50:41. > :50:42.that no-one wants to make. After years of delays the government
:50:43. > :50:47.is due to announce its prefdrred It seems to be a straight choice
:50:48. > :50:53.between a third one at Heathrow But what about another option -
:50:54. > :50:58.a new runway at Birmingham? Well that's the suggestion
:50:59. > :51:01.of the Liberal Democrat candidate for West Midlands
:51:02. > :51:03.Mayor Beverley Nielsen. We'll be asking her
:51:04. > :51:06.about that in a moment. First though our Political Dditor
:51:07. > :51:10.Patrick Burns takes a look `t We've gone from "either/or" -
:51:11. > :51:17.Heathrow or Gatwick - Would a second runway
:51:18. > :51:25.here at Birmingham really mdan London wouldn't need
:51:26. > :51:28.another one at all? Managers here say this will be
:51:29. > :51:31.Britain's first HS2 airport They've expanded the termin`l
:51:32. > :51:36.already, with another ?100 lillion Now, they say, they have
:51:37. > :51:42.to fill it up. It could handle twice the ctrrent
:51:43. > :51:45.11 million passengers a year. But talk of that second runway comes
:51:46. > :51:49.and goes - and comes again. On a site near junction 4
:51:50. > :51:53.of the M6 and, close by, the high-speed rail interch`nge
:51:54. > :51:56.a short runway, so regional airliners wouldn't get in the way
:51:57. > :51:59.of the heavy jets. That idea was bounced into the long
:52:00. > :52:03.grass when compromises were needed for planning permission
:52:04. > :52:06.for the existing runway extdnsion. Green campaigners think it should be
:52:07. > :52:09.kicked out all together. The Liberal Democrats are aligning
:52:10. > :52:12.themselves with big business, so I don't think they've consulted
:52:13. > :52:14.communities over this. We are not in favour of HS2,
:52:15. > :52:17.which any airport's expansion here, any second runway,
:52:18. > :52:20.would be dependent upon. But the man in the cabinet hotseat
:52:21. > :52:24.has much more expansive ide`s about Birmingham Airport is already
:52:25. > :52:29.a really important connection for this country to countrids
:52:30. > :52:32.like India, to the Middle E`st. The arrival of HS2, the linkage
:52:33. > :52:35.we get for the new Birmingh`m interchange station,
:52:36. > :52:37.is going to make a real It will attract more
:52:38. > :52:40.people to Birmingham, Its one existing runway is puite
:52:41. > :52:45.sufficient for the double-ddcker superjumbos arriving every day
:52:46. > :52:48.at this, one of only four British Having only one runway isn't
:52:49. > :52:54.stopping Gatwick handling a whopping 40 million
:52:55. > :52:58.passengers per year. But isn't this where
:52:59. > :53:03.that story began? No wonder we've been
:53:04. > :53:18.going round in circles The Liberal Democrat candid`te for
:53:19. > :53:22.the West Midlands Mayor joins me. We know what you think about this,
:53:23. > :53:26.companies the rest of us. -, confidence.
:53:27. > :53:31.The nature of connectivity hs changing, and how do we cre`te more
:53:32. > :53:35.jobs for people in the West Midlands? We have a challenge as a
:53:36. > :53:41.country, how we accommodate the growth that we require is a nation.
:53:42. > :53:47.We have a very congested habit Heathrow and we're talking `bout
:53:48. > :53:53.spending 6 billion to accomlodate the M25. With the arrival of the HS2
:53:54. > :53:57.interchange, we have got connectivity to London that is
:53:58. > :54:01.within 38 minutes, which we did not have in the past. We have got
:54:02. > :54:08.there is an additional factor. We there is an additional factor. We
:54:09. > :54:13.have hub busters. That will allow the entry of lower cost airlines, it
:54:14. > :54:16.is not about big business, ht is about residents, much better choice
:54:17. > :54:23.for our people. But why does that require another
:54:24. > :54:26.runway? They are only at 11 million in terms of passenger numbers, they
:54:27. > :54:32.have capacity for twice that. Another runway is not necessary
:54:33. > :54:34.But once we have got HS2 we can move people up the country inste`d of
:54:35. > :54:38.down the country, the natur`l movement in this country is always
:54:39. > :54:42.down to London. But we can get people moving in both corrections,
:54:43. > :54:46.which will change everything. We can also then attract the low-cost
:54:47. > :54:54.airlines into an airport, which we have not had before. We havd these
:54:55. > :54:58.two factors, so we can save the nation ?6 billion of money, and we
:54:59. > :55:01.can invest that for people hn Solihull, for the West Midl`nds
:55:02. > :55:05.region, we can invest in vital infrastructure. We need to love our
:55:06. > :55:09.people and goods is a mixed manufacturing economy.
:55:10. > :55:12.We can save the country mondy and ship the pollution and disrtption up
:55:13. > :55:17.here, you heard what the Grden Party said, you were aligning yourself
:55:18. > :55:24.with big business. I totally dispute that. The hub
:55:25. > :55:28.asked claims, they are much cleaner, less emissions, if you move
:55:29. > :55:30.everything to Heathrow they are already breaching the noise and
:55:31. > :55:35.pollution emissions down thdre. We spread the wealth opportunity, we
:55:36. > :55:38.spread the opportunity for this region, which has been starved of
:55:39. > :55:42.investment for at least 30 xears, and we put some of the monex that we
:55:43. > :55:45.have not had over that period into our region.
:55:46. > :55:50.Mark, what is your feeling `bout this?
:55:51. > :55:57.I started opposing the crazx idea the previous government put forward
:55:58. > :56:02.for an airport at Rugby. I think the Davis commission suggested that
:56:03. > :56:06.there should be some expanshon at Heathrow, I think that is entirely
:56:07. > :56:10.sensible. We need to make as much use of our asset as we can hn
:56:11. > :56:20.Birmingham. Can I press you on Beverly's idea?
:56:21. > :56:24.I think it is premature. It is a HS2 era which will improve conndctivity,
:56:25. > :56:29.but at a time when we're seding substantial investment in
:56:30. > :56:35.Birmingham, running at 50% of the existing capacity, there is going to
:56:36. > :56:38.be no business case for the runway, but we do need to make as mtch use
:56:39. > :56:42.as we possibly can of our local airport. It is a great part of
:56:43. > :56:47.building the Midlands engind and building connectivity.
:56:48. > :56:54.Neena Gill, this has been going on for so long, RU Gatwick or Heathrow?
:56:55. > :56:56.I would say it is astonishing that this issue has been going on for so
:56:57. > :57:03.long, given we made a decishon to leave the European Union, in a
:57:04. > :57:08.shorter time than we have m`de a decision on Heathrow or Gatwick We
:57:09. > :57:12.do need to maximise our links, especially in terms of Birmhngham,
:57:13. > :57:17.because all the evidence shows that good transport links to lead to
:57:18. > :57:23.growth. I have written a letter supporting Gatwick.
:57:24. > :57:28.Would you support Beverly on a second runway?
:57:29. > :57:31.If we can deal with the cap`city issue, yes, in the longer tdrm. In
:57:32. > :57:39.the short term, we need to build up harming. HS2 is a game changer, in
:57:40. > :57:44.that we're going have that hub. -- Birmingham. It is crucial wd get the
:57:45. > :57:49.government to make a decision, because there are so many
:57:50. > :57:51.indications... What is not being spoken about the
:57:52. > :57:59.changing technology in the `ircraft industry. The nature of avi`tion is
:58:00. > :58:03.changing, we are well-posithoned to take advantage. We can create up to
:58:04. > :58:09.100,000 jobs on the back of this, massive advantage, and take away the
:58:10. > :58:12.strain. It is not good to help our
:58:13. > :58:19.Heathrow makes more sense for us. Heathrow makes more sense for us.
:58:20. > :58:21.We will have to leave it thdre. Thank you very much.
:58:22. > :58:23.Now, it's time for our regular round-up of the political wdek
:58:24. > :58:31.This week it's brought to us by Kathryn Stanczyszyn.
:58:32. > :58:34.Unemployment in the West Midlands has risen by 3,000,
:58:35. > :58:38.taking the jobless total here to 168,000.
:58:39. > :58:42.West Midlands MEP and Ukip leadership contender Bill Etheridge
:58:43. > :58:44.said he'd welcome high profile candidates like
:58:45. > :58:49.Suzanne Evans and Paul Nutt`ll entering the race for the top job.
:58:50. > :58:51.Labour's Andy Burnham renewed calls for legal funding
:58:52. > :58:54.to support the families of the Birmingham pub bomb victims.
:58:55. > :58:57.He said the delays were "shameful" and he called
:58:58. > :59:01.Mondelez, the American owners of Cadbury, didn't pay any
:59:02. > :59:05.corporation tax at all last year, despite generating
:59:06. > :59:11.And MPs backed calls for Sir Philip Green to be stripped
:59:12. > :59:14.of his knighthood, with David Winnick branding
:59:15. > :59:25.A billionaire spiv who should never have received a knighthood,
:59:26. > :59:37.a billionaire spiv who has shamed British capitalism!
:59:38. > :59:44.And of course, it is the hotse forfeiture committee that would have
:59:45. > :59:50.the final say if Sir Philip Green was to join the likes of Anthony
:59:51. > :59:57.Green, Leicester Piggott, in having his knighthood removed. Jacob Rees
:59:58. > :00:00.Mogg said this week that thhs was an abuse of Parliamentary power, this
:00:01. > :00:08.man has not broken any laws, should they be debating this?
:00:09. > :00:12.I do not agree with Jacob. H have a lot of sympathy with David because I
:00:13. > :00:18.think this is the man who h`s created a whole and pensions of
:00:19. > :00:22.something like 571 million. 11, 00 people have lost their jobs. He has
:00:23. > :00:28.not paid any corporate tax. How can you give this man and honour on the
:00:29. > :00:33.basis of services? That is a vote for stripping it
:00:34. > :00:38.It is not for MPs to decide who gets and losers and honour. What we can
:00:39. > :00:45.agree on is that Sir Philip Green has acted morally wrong. I want to
:00:46. > :00:49.see the law changed to make sure that he sees the consequencds. We
:00:50. > :00:53.should not have the system of capitalism being abused in this way.
:00:54. > :00:59.We need to have strong powers to deal with that.
:01:00. > :01:01.I'm not sure that a yes or no. I'm afraid that is where we're going to
:01:02. > :01:02.have to wrap up this week. My thanks to our guests tod`y -
:01:03. > :01:05.Neena Gill and Mark Pawsey. Finally from me just time to mention
:01:06. > :01:08.that on tomorrow's 'Inside Out' programme they'll be looking
:01:09. > :01:11.at the impact of the growing numbers of people with diabetes
:01:12. > :01:13.and the cost to the NHS. One medic has called the explosion
:01:14. > :01:16.in the condition "an epidemhc That's on BBC One
:01:17. > :01:18.tomorrow evening at 7.30pm. Now though it's time to rejoin
:01:19. > :01:19.Andrew Neil in London. So, Brexit, airports,
:01:20. > :01:49.Calais and the chances With what Rory Stewart was saying
:01:50. > :01:53.there, it is clear that Islamic State is losing territory in Iraq
:01:54. > :01:59.now, and could come under pressure in Syria as well. It used to control
:02:00. > :02:08.a whole swathe of the coast of Libya, and is now down to a small
:02:09. > :02:11.area of Sirte in Libya. But curiously, it could make them more
:02:12. > :02:16.dangerous here if they are being driven out of the Maghreb and the
:02:17. > :02:21.Levant, they could be more dangerous here. Discuss. That was a very
:02:22. > :02:26.interesting admission from a government minister, of all people,
:02:27. > :02:33.and a well-informed one. Chasing Isis around the Middle East is
:02:34. > :02:37.about... Like chasing Al-Qaeda around Afghanistan and Pakistan You
:02:38. > :02:46.smash them somewhere, and they pop up somewhere else. He is right to
:02:47. > :02:57.warn that these guys will go somewhere. And it may well be, in
:02:58. > :03:03.Sirte, for example, across the magic oration -- across the Mediterranean
:03:04. > :03:06.into Italy. A lot of the foreign fighters in Mosul have already gone,
:03:07. > :03:15.we heard, which raises the question, to where? I think it is quite right
:03:16. > :03:19.for government ministers to warn that it might have repercussions
:03:20. > :03:24.here. We have been involved in this, with full public consent, as far as
:03:25. > :03:28.we can tell. If it doesn't happen, if there are horrors and outrages
:03:29. > :03:35.here and in the rest of Europe, that's fine. If it does happen, at
:03:36. > :03:43.least the government is prepared. We knew surprised about how categorical
:03:44. > :03:49.Nia Griffith was? She was categorical about support for the
:03:50. > :03:56.Allied action in Iraq, and categorical about Russia. So much so
:03:57. > :04:00.that perhaps written should take tougher sanctions on its own, even
:04:01. > :04:05.if it can't get the Europeans to fall in line. I found that
:04:06. > :04:11.interesting. I was surprised by that. Tom may be right that Rory
:04:12. > :04:15.said more than perhaps he was intending, but I thought that some
:04:16. > :04:20.of what she said sounded politically imprudent in the current context of
:04:21. > :04:25.the Labour Party. I'm not sure she cleared those lines with the Labour
:04:26. > :04:30.office. I'm not sure she and Jeremy are in the same place about it. I'm
:04:31. > :04:33.not sure there is that much leadership. People at the moment get
:04:34. > :04:38.out there and say what they think it's right for the party. She
:04:39. > :04:44.sounded dead right to me. Whether it is ill-advised or not, people should
:04:45. > :04:50.answer... I want to move on, because Brexit never goes away. This week we
:04:51. > :04:54.saw Hilary Benn, former Shadow Foreign Secretary. He is going to be
:04:55. > :04:58.the chair of the select committee in the Commons which will monitor the
:04:59. > :05:01.Department for Brexit. All sorts of people will be coming to give
:05:02. > :05:05.testimony and so one. Let's hear what he told Andrew Marr.
:05:06. > :05:08.I think it will be very important for the government to indicate that
:05:09. > :05:11.if it is not possible within the two years provided for by Article 5
:05:12. > :05:14.to negotiate both our withdrawal agreement and a new trading
:05:15. > :05:15.relationship, market access, including for services,
:05:16. > :05:17.80% of our economy, million jobs, in financial services,
:05:18. > :05:20.that it should tell the House of Commons that it will seek
:05:21. > :05:26.a transitional arrangement with the European Union.
:05:27. > :05:35.If the deal is not done at the end of the two-year Article 50 process,
:05:36. > :05:40.would the government go for an interim agreement, or would it fall
:05:41. > :05:45.back on WTO, World Trade Organisation, Rawls? My
:05:46. > :05:48.understanding is the article 15 negotiation doesn't specifically
:05:49. > :05:53.include what Britain's future trading relationship with the EU
:05:54. > :05:58.would be. It is perfectly possible that Article 50 could be triggered,
:05:59. > :06:03.and after two years we don't have a trade deal, but the trade deal
:06:04. > :06:14.negotiations are ongoing when we are outside the EU. But the trade deal
:06:15. > :06:16.negotiations are the most important thing. If Article 50 doesn't cover
:06:17. > :06:19.it, what is it about? Absolutely essential. The trade deal with
:06:20. > :06:27.Canada has taken nine years, and now it looks like it is fading, because
:06:28. > :06:36.of the Walloons. Just one small part of the country. If you cannot do a
:06:37. > :06:39.free-trade deal with Canada, a progressive, social Democratic
:06:40. > :06:44.Canada, who can the EU do a trade deal with? You would think it would
:06:45. > :06:47.be easy with us, because we have all of the level playing field
:06:48. > :06:53.agreements in place. You would hope it would be easier, but it may not
:06:54. > :06:58.be, because in the end, it will hinge on the single market and if we
:06:59. > :07:07.are in or out. If we are in, can we have a small break on immigration?
:07:08. > :07:09.It looks like not. What is interesting about the opinion polls
:07:10. > :07:14.is, in the last two opinion polls there was a significant change in
:07:15. > :07:18.public opinion, where people are now saying they think that actually
:07:19. > :07:23.trade, the economy, the single market is more important than
:07:24. > :07:27.immigration. If it is really true, as the observer is reporting today,
:07:28. > :07:32.that banks are on the move, and in a year's time there could be a
:07:33. > :07:36.significant collapse in the income we get from finance, the income that
:07:37. > :07:47.the Treasury gets, then public opinion might change. They may say,
:07:48. > :07:50.we don't want more immigration, but this isn't a price worth paying
:07:51. > :07:57.Everything tends to be seen through the Brexit lens at the moment.
:07:58. > :08:01.Things are not always as they seem. The Canadian- EU free trade
:08:02. > :08:06.agreement was about increasing free trade between the EU and Canada and
:08:07. > :08:10.therefore subject to the ratification of all members. Any
:08:11. > :08:16.deal we do will not give us the same access we have at the moment. The
:08:17. > :08:22.question is, how much will it be diminished? It may not be subject to
:08:23. > :08:24.the same ratification process. Absolutely right. Another
:08:25. > :08:31.unbelievably technical point that we still don't know is, if we can get
:08:32. > :08:36.this free-trade deal with the EU at the same time as our Brexit talks
:08:37. > :08:44.and deal, the divorce deal as well as the remarriage deal, then one
:08:45. > :08:53.gets signed off by QM V. The trade deal may still need all 28, all 27,
:08:54. > :08:59.including the people from the Walloons. And the MEPs. The majority
:09:00. > :09:03.of parliament. This is exactly why Theresa May would like the
:09:04. > :09:07.transitional deal to push this one deeper. I was surprised to hear
:09:08. > :09:11.Hilary Benn pushing this line this morning. The remainers have been all
:09:12. > :09:16.over the place. They wanted a vote after Article 50 had been triggered
:09:17. > :09:24.about the deal. Then they wanted a vote before Article 50. Now they are
:09:25. > :09:29.talking about a vote before article Article 50 is triggered about a
:09:30. > :09:33.trade deal. They need to make up their minds about what it is they
:09:34. > :09:39.are pushing for, and what their best hope of obstructing Brexit is, and
:09:40. > :09:44.stick with it. Something else we see through the Brexit lens, which isn't
:09:45. > :09:48.always helpful, is Calais. The French bulldozers will move in
:09:49. > :09:53.tomorrow. We will see some pretty disturbing scenes on the TV. We will
:09:54. > :09:57.see some horrible scenes. The government has handled this very
:09:58. > :10:03.badly. Having passed an amendment in April saying we would take something
:10:04. > :10:06.like 3000 children, a lot of those children have disappeared. Save the
:10:07. > :10:10.Children, one of the charities there, are very worried that people
:10:11. > :10:18.traffickers have been in there, and a lot of those children have
:10:19. > :10:22.vanished. We haven't sent social workers in. No preparations have
:10:23. > :10:29.been made what ever. You are raising an interesting point. We don't know
:10:30. > :10:33.how many we are meant to be taking. The huge argument has arisen over
:10:34. > :10:40.what the age is of some of the ones coming in. Is this another problem
:10:41. > :10:45.for the Home Office? To some extent. Didn't Theresa May 's too well to
:10:46. > :10:50.survive six weeks of this? Amber Rudd has been there for three
:10:51. > :10:53.months. It is clear that the Home Office didn't prepare for this. They
:10:54. > :11:01.didn't prepare for the age verification or when it will go It
:11:02. > :11:07.needs to be an perfect. We don't know how many we will take, because
:11:08. > :11:11.the Home Office will not say. I want to talk about airport capacity, but
:11:12. > :11:17.I won't, because I don't think we have anything to say about it until
:11:18. > :11:21.the statement on Tuesday from Transport Minister Grayling. When
:11:22. > :11:24.you look at the polls and see the decision on airport runway expansion
:11:25. > :11:29.being kicked into the long grass for a year, are we heading for an early
:11:30. > :11:34.election next year or not? I think Theresa May will do everything she
:11:35. > :11:41.can to avoid it. If there is an election before 2020, it is bound to
:11:42. > :11:45.be about Europe, and that is a much harder case for her to win than just
:11:46. > :11:49.a question of who is the best Prime Minister. She will have a tough
:11:50. > :11:54.time, because it will be a general election about in or out of the
:11:55. > :11:59.single market. Half of her party will peel away. How do she conduct a
:12:00. > :12:05.general election when the likes of Anna Soubry will not stand on the
:12:06. > :12:14.same platform? It will be difficult. But she may reach such a stalemate
:12:15. > :12:17.that she just calls one. No general election next year because it will
:12:18. > :12:21.split the Tory party. There will be won in 2019 when she cannot get
:12:22. > :12:25.Brexit through the House of Commons. You really can have too much of a
:12:26. > :12:30.good thing. I just want to show a little clip of the former Shadow
:12:31. > :12:34.Chancellor, Ed Balls, from Strictly last night. Let's just watch this.
:12:35. > :12:46.There he is. Where is the hand? That is the
:12:47. > :12:54.worrying bit! We will no longer be saying that Ed Balls is a safe pair
:12:55. > :12:58.of hands! Can we agree on that? Remarkable that he was once the man
:12:59. > :13:07.most feared by David Cameron! Labour leader 2021. He has hit popular
:13:08. > :13:13.culture in the way that many few politicians do. Charm, gusto,
:13:14. > :13:20.bravery, no worries about being embarrassed. All the things that you
:13:21. > :13:22.don't like about being a politician. We have run out of time. You can get
:13:23. > :13:25.it on social media. Jo Coburn will be back
:13:26. > :13:27.with the Daily Politics tomorrow And I'll be back here next
:13:28. > :13:31.Sunday at the same time. Remember if it's Sunday,
:13:32. > :14:05.it's the Sunday Politics. Everyone's living these
:14:06. > :14:07.amazing lives, You're like a...
:14:08. > :14:18.Different person? Delve deeper.
:14:19. > :14:27.Ordinary Lives continues... They have something on me
:14:28. > :14:28.that I can actually remember. They have something on me
:14:29. > :14:32.that I can actually remember. The final chapter between
:14:33. > :14:37.Gibson and Spector.