:00:34. > :00:37.Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:38. > :00:40.Theresa May says she wants to help people who are
:00:41. > :00:42."just about managing" - so should she reverse
:00:43. > :00:45.George Osborne's cuts to benefits that are supposed to help people
:00:46. > :00:52.Prominent London Imam Shakeel Begg is an extremist speaker,
:00:53. > :00:55.says the High Court, after claims made on this programme.
:00:56. > :01:00.So why is Mr Begg still being allowed to advise the Police?
:01:01. > :01:05.Hillary Clinton fights back over the FBI's renewed investigation
:01:06. > :01:08.into her use of a private email server - is this the boost
:01:09. > :01:11.Donald Trump needed to reignite his chances of winning the White House?
:01:12. > :01:14.And in the Midlands, we're laking a drama out of a crisis.
:01:15. > :01:16.Enoch Powell's incendiary Rhvers of Blood speech
:01:17. > :01:19.is the subject of a new plax at the Birmingham Rep.
:01:20. > :01:20.Please take your seats in half an hour.
:01:21. > :01:23.Now it is just a question of building that runway with the
:01:24. > :01:30.political problems that lie ahead. And haunting the studio
:01:31. > :01:32.on this Halloween weekend, the most terrifying political
:01:33. > :01:34.panel in the business - Tim 'Ghost' Shipman,
:01:35. > :01:37.'Eerie' Isabel Oakeshott and First this morning, two
:01:38. > :01:46.new models of car to be built, securing 7,000 jobs at the car plant
:01:47. > :01:49.in Sunderland and a further 28, 00 The news from Nissan on Thursday
:01:50. > :01:56.was seized on by Leave campaigners as evidence that the British
:01:57. > :01:58.economy is in rude health This morning, the Business
:01:59. > :02:02.Secretary, Greg Clark, was asked what assurances were given
:02:03. > :02:05.to the Japanese firm's bosses Well, it's in no-one's the interest
:02:06. > :02:12.for there to be tariff barriers to the continent
:02:13. > :02:17.and vice versa. So, what I said is that our
:02:18. > :02:20.objective would be to ensure that we have continued access to the markets
:02:21. > :02:26.in Europe and vice versa, without tariffs and without
:02:27. > :02:29.bureaucratic impediments. That is how we will approach
:02:30. > :02:33.those negotiations. We're joined now from Newcastle
:02:34. > :02:46.by the Shadow Business Welcome to the programme. Labour has
:02:47. > :02:51.been a bit sceptical about this Nissan decision. Can we begin by
:02:52. > :02:56.making it clear just what a great achievement this is, above all for
:02:57. > :03:01.the workers of Sunderland who have some of the highest productivity in
:03:02. > :03:06.the world, have never been on strike for 30 years, and produce cars of
:03:07. > :03:12.incredible quality. This is their victory, isn't it? Andrew, you are
:03:13. > :03:14.absolutely right. The Nissan plant in Sunderland is among the most
:03:15. > :03:19.productive in the world. The workers of Nissan are amongst the most
:03:20. > :03:26.productive as well. And it's really a victory for them and for the trade
:03:27. > :03:28.unions and the business organisations, and everybody who
:03:29. > :03:34.campaigned to make sure that the government couldn't ignore their
:03:35. > :03:39.future. It's our future. I'm the MP for Newcastle. It makes a huge
:03:40. > :03:43.difference to the region. We are a region that still likes to make
:03:44. > :03:48.things that work. It is a huge part of our advanced manufacturing
:03:49. > :03:53.sector. So it's really something we welcome as well as the job security.
:03:54. > :03:58.I'm glad we have got that on the record from the Labour shadow
:03:59. > :04:01.business secretary. But your Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell, claims
:04:02. > :04:07.the government is ignoring manufacturers and cares only about a
:04:08. > :04:10.small banking elite. In what way is safeguarding 30,000 industrial jobs
:04:11. > :04:15.in the North safeguarding a financial elite? As I said, we're
:04:16. > :04:19.really pleased that the campaigning by trade unions and the workforce,
:04:20. > :04:23.and business organisations, meant the government felt they couldn t
:04:24. > :04:27.ignore Nissan workers. Let's also be clear that we want that kind of job
:04:28. > :04:32.security for all of those working in manufacturing and in other sectors
:04:33. > :04:37.as well. And sweetheart deals for one company, no matter how important
:04:38. > :04:42.they are, that does not an industrial strategy make. Why'd you
:04:43. > :04:48.say it is a sweetheart deal? Greg Clark told the BBC this morning that
:04:49. > :04:52.what was assured to Nissan is an assurance he gives to the whole
:04:53. > :04:58.industrial sector? I was really pleased to see Greg Clark felt he
:04:59. > :05:03.had to say something, even though it's sad that we having our
:05:04. > :05:06.industrial strategy, you like, or our approach to Brexit delivered
:05:07. > :05:11.piecemeal to the media rather than to the British people and Nissan,
:05:12. > :05:15.actually. But he want published the letter. He said he has told us what
:05:16. > :05:19.is in the letter and that reassurances given on training, on
:05:20. > :05:24.science and on supporting the supply chain for the automated sector. You
:05:25. > :05:29.must be in favour all -- of all of that? We are in favour of an
:05:30. > :05:38.industrial strategy. Greg Clark unlike Sajid Javid, cannot say
:05:39. > :05:43.industrial strategy. I'm still puzzling to find out what it is you
:05:44. > :05:47.disagree with. Let me put the question. You said the assurances he
:05:48. > :05:52.has given to Nissan are available to the car manufacturing sector in
:05:53. > :05:58.general and indeed to industry in general. What is your problem with
:05:59. > :06:02.that? Two things. Let him publish the letter so we can see that, let
:06:03. > :06:08.him have the transparency he's pretending to offer. But also, we
:06:09. > :06:15.need an industrial strategy that values -- that is values based and
:06:16. > :06:22.joined. He talked about electric cars and supporting green cars. That
:06:23. > :06:25.was in regard to Nissan. At the same time the government has slashed
:06:26. > :06:30.support for other areas of green technology. So what is it? That is
:06:31. > :06:36.not to do with the Nissan deal. Labour implied at some stage there
:06:37. > :06:40.was some financial inducement, some secret bribes, that doesn't seem to
:06:41. > :06:45.be the case. You are not claiming that any more -- any more. Then you
:06:46. > :06:49.claimed it was a sweetheart deal for one company. That turns out not to
:06:50. > :06:56.be the case. What criticism are you left with on this Nissan deal? I
:06:57. > :07:03.would be really surprised if all that Nissan got was the reassurances
:07:04. > :07:08.that Greg Clark is shared with us. He didn't answer the question of
:07:09. > :07:11.what happens if we can't get continued tariff free access to the
:07:12. > :07:16.single market, if we are not within the single market or the Customs
:07:17. > :07:21.Union. Do you really think a negotiator like Nissan, who are very
:07:22. > :07:23.good at negotiating, they would have excepted making this significant
:07:24. > :07:29.investment without some further reassurances? Do you think there is
:07:30. > :07:34.some kind of financial bride and if so what is the evidence? I would
:07:35. > :07:39.like to see the letter published and I would also like to understand what
:07:40. > :07:44.would happen... There are 27 countries which need to agree with
:07:45. > :07:48.the deal we have from Brexit. What will Nissan, how will Nissan remain
:07:49. > :07:54.competitive? How will the automotive industry remain competitive? Greg
:07:55. > :07:58.Clark says he reassured them on that. But how will that be so if we
:07:59. > :08:07.do not get access? We haven't heard anything about that. He talks about
:08:08. > :08:11.reassurances given to Nissan. We need to make -- to know where we're
:08:12. > :08:14.going to make sure Brexit is in the interest of all workers, not only
:08:15. > :08:21.those who work for a Nissan and not only those who can get the attention
:08:22. > :08:24.of Greg Clark. He assured Nissan that Britain would remain a
:08:25. > :08:29.competitive place to do business. That was the main assurance he gave
:08:30. > :08:34.them. He would help with skills and infrastructure and all the rest
:08:35. > :08:37.Since you are -- intend to repeal the trade union laws that have made
:08:38. > :08:41.strikes in Britain largely a thing of the past, and you plan to raise
:08:42. > :08:46.corporation tax, you couldn't give Nissan the same assurance, could
:08:47. > :08:51.you? We could absolutely give Nissan the assurance that we will be, our
:08:52. > :08:55.vision of the future of the UK, is based on having a strong
:08:56. > :09:05.manufacturing sector. Repealing trade union laws? As we have seen at
:09:06. > :09:14.Nissan, the industrial sector is dependent on having highly trained,
:09:15. > :09:18.well skilled workers. -- highly skilled, well-trained. You don't
:09:19. > :09:22.have that by getting -- having an aggressive policy and trade union
:09:23. > :09:26.laws or by slashing corporation tax and not supporting manufacturing
:09:27. > :09:29.investment. Remember, the last government took away the
:09:30. > :09:34.Manufacturing allowances which supported Manufacturing and slashed
:09:35. > :09:38.corporation tax. That is their solution. It is a low tax, low skill
:09:39. > :09:43.economy they want. Thank you. Sorry I had to rush you.
:09:44. > :09:53.I'm grateful for you joining us I'm still struggling to see what is
:09:54. > :09:57.left of Labour's criticism? Yeah, except for this. This was a valid
:09:58. > :10:01.point she just made. What we know for sure is that Greg Clark could
:10:02. > :10:07.say to Nissan, my aim is to get tariff free deal. There is no way he
:10:08. > :10:11.could guarantee that. None of us know that. I don't think that was
:10:12. > :10:18.enough. I think clearly there was a more detailed package involving
:10:19. > :10:22.training and other things. He has acknowledged this, albeit we do not
:10:23. > :10:25.know the precise mechanism. What I think is interesting about this is
:10:26. > :10:29.if you reverse what happened this week, at a time when the government
:10:30. > :10:34.says Britain is open for business and it is going to have an
:10:35. > :10:38.industrial strategy, so far it is a bit vaguely defined. Nissan hadn't
:10:39. > :10:41.made this commitment. Imagine what would have happened? It is an
:10:42. > :10:48.impossible scenario. The government seems to me was obliged to make sure
:10:49. > :10:51.this didn't happen. Let's not forget Nissan has invested hundreds of
:10:52. > :10:56.millions in the north-east. It has been a huge success story. When I
:10:57. > :11:00.spoke to workers from Nissan, they were so proud because they went to
:11:01. > :11:04.Japan to teach the Japanese had to be more productive. The idea that
:11:05. > :11:08.Nissan was just going to walk away from this given its track record,
:11:09. > :11:14.its importance, wasn't really credible. The government had some
:11:15. > :11:17.bargaining chips. Absolutely, of course they weren't going to walk
:11:18. > :11:22.away. The majority of people in the area in which Nissan is braced -
:11:23. > :11:27.based, voted for Brexit. Nissan knows it is in a powerful position
:11:28. > :11:30.because it is an emotive sector Clearly the government didn't want
:11:31. > :11:36.to have some big showdown. I honestly don't think this is a
:11:37. > :11:39.smoking gun. The Labour Shadow minister really struggled to
:11:40. > :11:42.articulate what exactly she thinks the government is hiding. I think
:11:43. > :11:47.the reassurances were given were pretty anodyne, really. They were
:11:48. > :11:50.anodyne and general. And what Greg Clark was setting out was an
:11:51. > :11:54.objective and he made the right noises, and Nissan exercised its
:11:55. > :12:00.right to sabre rattle. It does have a history of doing that. The one
:12:01. > :12:04.thing that would now be clear given Greg Clark's performance this
:12:05. > :12:06.morning on the BBC, is that if we were to discover some kind of
:12:07. > :12:11.financial incentive directly linked to this investment, not more for
:12:12. > :12:17.skills or infrastructure, that is fine, but some direct financial
:12:18. > :12:19.investment, compensation for tariffs, which would be illegal
:12:20. > :12:25.under World Trade Organisation rules, what you might call a
:12:26. > :12:29.financial bride, the sect -- the business Secretary's position would
:12:30. > :12:32.be untenable? He would be in a very difficult position indeed. Just
:12:33. > :12:36.released the letter. There is nothing to hide. Put it out there.
:12:37. > :12:41.The most revealing thing is that people are getting wildly excited
:12:42. > :12:45.about the fact Greg Clark announced Britain's negotiating position would
:12:46. > :12:49.be that we would like tariff free trade with Europe. This is regarded
:12:50. > :12:52.as an insight into what this comment is doing and it says a great deal
:12:53. > :12:58.about how little we have been told in Parliament and the media about
:12:59. > :13:01.what they are up. Do you think it is exciting we are going for tariff
:13:02. > :13:09.free trade? We're easily excited these days. We don't know. This is
:13:10. > :13:13.where these things are at such a tentative phase. We don't know how
:13:14. > :13:19.the rest of the European Union is going to respond to Britain's
:13:20. > :13:24.negotiating hand. We know Britain once the best of everything, please.
:13:25. > :13:29.It is a starting point. But that is not how it is going to end up. We
:13:30. > :13:31.are getting wider than that. We have will have to see.
:13:32. > :13:33.Now, Universal Credit, a single payment made to welfare
:13:34. > :13:35.claimants that would roll together a plethora of benefits whilst
:13:36. > :13:38.encouraging people into work by making work pay.
:13:39. > :13:40.But have cuts to the flagship welfare scheme reduced work
:13:41. > :13:46.incentives and hit the incomes of the least well-off?
:13:47. > :13:48.Well, some of the government's own MPs think so, and,
:13:49. > :13:55.as Mark Lobel reports, want the cuts reversed.
:13:56. > :13:58.Theresa May says she wants a country that works
:13:59. > :14:02.for everyone, that's on the side of ordinary, working people.
:14:03. > :14:05.It means never writing off people who can work and consigning them
:14:06. > :14:08.to a life on benefits, but giving them the chance to go out
:14:09. > :14:11.and earn a living and to enjoy the dignity that comes
:14:12. > :14:17.But now some in her party are worried that the low earners
:14:18. > :14:22.will be hit by changes to Universal Credit benefit system
:14:23. > :14:24.originally set up to encourage more people into work.
:14:25. > :14:27.We also need to focus tax credits and Universal Credit
:14:28. > :14:33.Concern centred on the Government's decision in the July 2015 budget
:14:34. > :14:42.to find ?3 billion worth of savings from the Universal Credit bill.
:14:43. > :14:45.Conservative MP Heidi Allen is working on a campaign to get MPs
:14:46. > :14:53.in her party to urge the Prime Minister to think again.
:14:54. > :14:56.I want her to understand for herself what the outcomes might
:14:57. > :14:58.be if we press ahead with the Universal Credit,
:14:59. > :15:02.Do you think Theresa May, right now, understands what you understand
:15:03. > :15:05.To be fair, unless you really get into the detail,
:15:06. > :15:08.and I have through my work on the Work and Pensions
:15:09. > :15:09.Select Committee, I don't think anybody does.
:15:10. > :15:15.Independent economic analysts at the IFS agree with Heidi Alan
:15:16. > :15:20.that cuts to Universal Credit weaken incentives to work.
:15:21. > :15:22.One of the key parts of the Universal Credit system
:15:23. > :15:26.That is how much you can earn before your credit
:15:27. > :15:28.As the Government has sought to save money,
:15:29. > :15:31.both under the Coalition and now they Conservative Government,
:15:32. > :15:33.both under the Coalition and now the Conservative Government,
:15:34. > :15:35.that work allowance has been cut, time and time again.
:15:36. > :15:38.The biggest cuts happened in the summer budget of 2015.
:15:39. > :15:40.That basically reduces the amount of earnings you get to keep
:15:41. > :15:44.It weakens the incentive people have to move into work.
:15:45. > :15:46.What do changes to the Universal Credit system mean?
:15:47. > :15:49.The Resolution Foundation think tank has crunched the numbers.
:15:50. > :15:53.If you compare what would have happened before the July 2015 summer
:15:54. > :15:56.budget to what will happen by 2 20, even if you take into account gains
:15:57. > :15:58.in the National Living Wage and income tax cuts,
:15:59. > :16:03.recipients will be hit by annual deductions.
:16:04. > :16:07.Couples and parents would receive, on average, ?1000 less.
:16:08. > :16:09.A dual-earning couple with two children under four,
:16:10. > :16:12.with one partner working full-time on ?10.50 an hour and the other
:16:13. > :16:15.working part-time on the minimum wage for around 20
:16:16. > :16:22.hours a week, they would receive ?1800 less.
:16:23. > :16:24.Hit most by the changes would be a single parent
:16:25. > :16:26.with a child under four, working full-time
:16:27. > :16:40.I think, if I'm honest, it is unrealistic, given
:16:41. > :16:43.the economic climate, to expect everything to be reversed.
:16:44. > :16:49.What I would like to see is an increase in the work
:16:50. > :16:52.allowances to those people who will be hardest hit.
:16:53. > :16:55.That is single parents and second earners hoping to return to work,
:16:56. > :16:57.because they are the people we need to absolutely make
:16:58. > :17:02.The Sunday Politics understands that about 15 to 20 Conservative MPs
:17:03. > :17:05.are pushing for changes ahead of the Autumn Statement.
:17:06. > :17:08.A former cabinet minister told us that they believed further impact
:17:09. > :17:11.analysis should be done to find out if any mitigation measures
:17:12. > :17:18.Former Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith, an architect
:17:19. > :17:22.of the system, now says the cuts should be reversed.
:17:23. > :17:27.But his former department has told us that it has no plans to revisit
:17:28. > :17:32.the work allowance changes announced in the budget last year.
:17:33. > :17:35.What I would say to Heidi Allen and IDS, they got it right the first
:17:36. > :17:38.time and they should stick to the vote they cast last year
:17:39. > :17:40.because these reforms actually do make sense.
:17:41. > :17:43.What interests me is the fact we are trying to move people
:17:44. > :17:45.off welfare into work, we are raising the wages people
:17:46. > :17:47.earn by massively increasing the minimum wage and this
:17:48. > :17:51.People are coming off welfare and into work.
:17:52. > :17:54.Campaigners are pushing for savings to come from other areas to relieve
:17:55. > :18:00.The other thing we have to start looking at is the triple
:18:01. > :18:04.Financially it has been a great policy, and it was absolutely right
:18:05. > :18:06.that we lifted pensioners who were significantly behind,
:18:07. > :18:08.for many years, in terms of income levels, but they have
:18:09. > :18:14.I think it is time for us to look at that policy again,
:18:15. > :18:16.because is costing us an awful lot of money.
:18:17. > :18:19.With just over three weeks to wait until the Conservative leadership's
:18:20. > :18:22.new economic plan is unveiled in the Autumn Statement,
:18:23. > :18:25.its top team is under pressure from within its own ranks to use it
:18:26. > :18:35.And I'm joined now by former Work and Pensions Secretary,
:18:36. > :18:43.Welcome back to the programme. Theresa May said she is on the side
:18:44. > :18:48.of the just managing, the working poor. But they are about to be hit
:18:49. > :18:52.from all sides. Their modest living standards are going to be squeezed
:18:53. > :18:56.as inflation overtakes pay rises, they will be further squeezed
:18:57. > :18:59.because top-up benefits in work are frozen. Incentives to work are going
:19:00. > :19:04.to be reduced by the cuts in universal benefits. So much for
:19:05. > :19:09.being on the side of those just managing? Theresa was right to focus
:19:10. > :19:16.on this group. The definition has to be the bottom half, in economic
:19:17. > :19:20.terms, of the social structure. It doesn't look good for them? This is
:19:21. > :19:24.the point I am making, it is an opportunity to put some of this
:19:25. > :19:26.right. One of the reasons I resigned in March is because I felt the
:19:27. > :19:30.direction of travel we had been going in had been to take far too
:19:31. > :19:34.much money out of that group of people when there are other areas
:19:35. > :19:38.which, if you need to make some of those savings, you can. The key bit
:19:39. > :19:41.is that the group needs to be helped through into work and encouraged to
:19:42. > :19:45.stay in work. There was a report done with the IFS, when we were
:19:46. > :19:51.there, at Universal Credit. It said Universal Credit rolled out, as it
:19:52. > :19:55.should have been before the cuts, people would be much more likely to
:19:56. > :19:59.stay in work longer and earn more money. It is a net positive, but
:20:00. > :20:04.that is now called into question. Let's unpick some of the detail but
:20:05. > :20:07.first, do you accept the words of David Willets? It says on the basis
:20:08. > :20:14.of the things I read out to you that the just managing face a significant
:20:15. > :20:19.and painful cut in real terms if we continue on the way we are going. I
:20:20. > :20:27.do, in essence. That is the reason why I resigned. I felt Heidi raised
:20:28. > :20:31.that issue as well, that we got the balance wrong. It is right that
:20:32. > :20:35.pensioners get to a certain point, when they are on a level par, doing
:20:36. > :20:40.the right thing over five years Staying with that process has cost
:20:41. > :20:49.us ?18 billion extra this year, in total. It will go on costing another
:20:50. > :20:53.5 billion. Then there is the issue of tax allowances. I want to remind
:20:54. > :21:00.you and viewers what David Cameron told the Conservative conference in
:21:01. > :21:05.2009. If you are a single mother with two children, earning ?150 a
:21:06. > :21:09.week, the withdrawal of your benefits and the additional taxes
:21:10. > :21:16.that you pay me on that for every extra you earn, you keep just 4p.
:21:17. > :21:22.What kind of incentive is that? 30 years ago, this party won and
:21:23. > :21:32.election fighting against 98% tax rates for the Rex richest. I want us
:21:33. > :21:37.today to show even more anger about 96% tax rates for the very poorest
:21:38. > :21:43.in our country. Real anger, and effective rate of over 90%.
:21:44. > :21:47.Universal Credit reduces that. Some will still face, as they lose
:21:48. > :21:52.benefits and pay tax, a marginal rate of over 75%. That is still too
:21:53. > :21:56.high? Yes, it is the collision between those going into work at the
:21:57. > :22:01.moment they start paying tax. A racial Universal Credit is set at
:22:02. > :22:07.65%. You can call that the base marginal tax rate. 1.2 million will
:22:08. > :22:11.face 75%? That is the point about why the allowances are so important.
:22:12. > :22:14.The point about the allowances which viewers might not fully understand
:22:15. > :22:18.is that it was set, as part of Universal Credit, to allow you to
:22:19. > :22:21.get certain people, with certain difficulties, as they cross into
:22:22. > :22:28.work, to retain more benefit before it is tapered away as they go up in
:22:29. > :22:32.hours. A lone parent, who might have various issues, you want her to have
:22:33. > :22:36.a bigger incentive than a single person that does not have the same
:22:37. > :22:40.commitments. It is structured so that somebody who has difficulty
:22:41. > :22:42.going to work, they all have slightly different rates. What
:22:43. > :22:46.happened is that last year a decision was taken to reduce tax
:22:47. > :22:50.credits, and, on the back of that, to reduce allowances. I believe
:22:51. > :22:56.given everything that happened now, we need to restore that to the point
:22:57. > :22:59.where it helps those people crossing over. You say a decision was taken,
:23:00. > :23:04.it was a decision by the former Chancellor George Osborne in the
:23:05. > :23:08.summer budget. Other decisions were taken in successive Budgets to raise
:23:09. > :23:11.the Universal Credit budget, which resulted in the disincentive being
:23:12. > :23:16.higher than many people wanted. Do you accept that has been the
:23:17. > :23:18.consequence of his decisions? I was in the Government, we take
:23:19. > :23:23.collective responsibility. I argued this was not the right way to go,
:23:24. > :23:26.but when you are in you have to stay with it if you lose that argument.
:23:27. > :23:30.There was another attempt before the spending review last year to
:23:31. > :23:35.increase the taper, so the marginal rate would have gone up. I managed
:23:36. > :23:39.to stop that. I'm Sibley saying what we made as a decision last
:23:40. > :23:44.year, given the circumstances and given that the net effect of all of
:23:45. > :23:47.that, I think it is time for the Government to ask the question, if
:23:48. > :23:51.we are in this to help that group of people, Universal Credit is
:23:52. > :23:54.singularly the most powerful tool. One of the Argentine aid in the
:23:55. > :24:00.paper published on Thursday, we are set going on doing two more races of
:24:01. > :24:06.the tax threshold, taking more people out of tax. That has a
:24:07. > :24:12.diminishing effect on the bottom section. Only 25p in that tax rate
:24:13. > :24:17.will help any of those. Most of it goes to middle income? You and I
:24:18. > :24:20.will benefit more from that. With Universal Credit, every pound you
:24:21. > :24:24.put into that will go to the bottom five tenths. That is why I designed
:24:25. > :24:29.it like that. He pressed the button and immediately start to changed
:24:30. > :24:32.circumstances. Should the cuts in Universal Credit that Mr Osborne
:24:33. > :24:38.introduced, against your argument, should they be reversed? I believe
:24:39. > :24:41.so. I believe you can do it even if there is concern about spending I
:24:42. > :24:45.don't believe you need to go through with the continuing raise the tax
:24:46. > :24:53.threshold. Cost is dependent on inflation, but give or take. It is
:24:54. > :24:58.in the Tory manifesto? Has more than doubled. What is in the manifesto,
:24:59. > :25:04.and Lasse Prime Minister made this clear in conference, we want to
:25:05. > :25:07.improve the life chances of people. Today's announcement on the Green
:25:08. > :25:10.paper is what I wrote over the last two and a half years. Big changes
:25:11. > :25:15.necessary to how we deal with sickness benefit. That can now be
:25:16. > :25:18.done because of Universal Credit, because people can go back to work
:25:19. > :25:22.and it tapers away their benefits. It is the most powerful tool to sort
:25:23. > :25:27.our people that live in poverty Universal Credit. We need to make
:25:28. > :25:30.sure it lands positively. If Mr Osborne's cuts were reversed, what
:25:31. > :25:34.you and some of your backbench Tory colleagues want to do, how would
:25:35. > :25:41.that improve the incentives of the working poor, as they try to get on
:25:42. > :25:47.in life? They have to pay more tax, they lose some benefits. How would
:25:48. > :25:51.it improve it? Would many still face a 75% rate? The key question is
:25:52. > :25:56.first and foremost, as people move through income to the point where
:25:57. > :25:59.they are getting taxed, that group will be enormously benefited by the
:26:00. > :26:05.re-emergence of these allowances at the right level. That is what the
:26:06. > :26:09.IFS have said, that is what the Resolution Foundation are saying,
:26:10. > :26:13.and the Centre For Social Justice is saying. You have to get that group,
:26:14. > :26:17.because they are most likely to be drifting into poverty and less
:26:18. > :26:22.incomes are right. Would it help those who face a 75% margin? We
:26:23. > :26:27.don't face that. Exactly right. People much poorer than us do. I
:26:28. > :26:36.would love to get the marginal rate down to testify percent, and lower,.
:26:37. > :26:39.-- down to 65%. It is a balance of how you spend the money. I would
:26:40. > :26:47.prefer to do that rather than necessarily go ahead with threshold
:26:48. > :26:52.razors. I think the coronation of the marginal reduction of 65%,
:26:53. > :26:55.getting it down to 60%, plus more allowances, will allow Universal
:26:56. > :26:59.Credit to get to the group that is going to be, and the report written
:27:00. > :27:03.by the IFS and ourselves, it shows it is going to be the most dynamic
:27:04. > :27:07.and direct ability of a Government to be able to influence the way that
:27:08. > :27:14.people improve their incomes in the bottom five deciles. Would you take
:27:15. > :27:20.on extra work if you knew you were going to lose 75% of it? Even 6 %?
:27:21. > :27:25.This has been my argument all along. Universal Credit can help that
:27:26. > :27:30.enormously. One point that goes missing, 70% of the bottom five
:27:31. > :27:32.deciles will be on Universal Credit. Whatever change you make to
:27:33. > :27:38.Universal Credit has a dramatic and immediate effect I am arguing,
:27:39. > :27:42.genuinely, it is time to rethink this. The Prime Minister wants to
:27:43. > :27:45.make this a priority. I am completely with her on this. I think
:27:46. > :27:51.she made a really good start. To deliver this, we need to... You have
:27:52. > :27:55.a lot of work to do to deliver it. Because it is a manifesto
:27:56. > :28:00.commitment, or because they want to do it, stopping increasing the
:28:01. > :28:03.personal allowances are not acceptable, what about bringing to
:28:04. > :28:08.an end, by the end of the parliament, the pension triple lock
:28:09. > :28:15.that pensioners enjoy to improve and put more money to the working poor?
:28:16. > :28:19.What about that? Well, you are absolutely right that there is now
:28:20. > :28:22.the danger, I think, of a mess balance between the generations
:28:23. > :28:26.Quite rightly at the beginning, when we came in, we have a commitment as
:28:27. > :28:32.a Conservative Party in a manifesto to get pensions back onto earnings.
:28:33. > :28:37.It was moved to a triple lock that guaranteed a minimum. What about
:28:38. > :28:41.ending up now? I understand it is a promise through the Parliament, but
:28:42. > :28:45.after 2020? I am in favour of getting it back to innings and
:28:46. > :28:50.allowing it to rise at reasonable levels. Moving from earnings to the
:28:51. > :28:54.triple lock has cost ?18 billion this year. Here was a high, under
:28:55. > :28:58.pressure, as the Government was scratching around to pay more money
:28:59. > :29:02.out of working age areas, when the budget was almost out of control on
:29:03. > :29:05.the pension side. I'm in favour of helping pensioners, but now they are
:29:06. > :29:09.up to a reasonable level, at a steady rate, that can be afforded by
:29:10. > :29:14.Government, which takes the pressure off, working age people have to pay
:29:15. > :29:25.for that. In years to come, time to end the triple lock
:29:26. > :29:29.and use the savings to help these people we have been talking about?
:29:30. > :29:31.As part of a load of packages, yes. It would also help with the
:29:32. > :29:34.intergenerational fairness argument. Thank you for being with us.
:29:35. > :29:36.Now, a prominent London Imam called Shakeel Begg -
:29:37. > :29:39.who is Chief Imam the Lewisham Islamic Centre - is an extremist.
:29:40. > :29:43.That was the verdict of the judge in a libel action that Mr Begg took
:29:44. > :29:46.against the BBC, after we described him as an Islamic extremist
:29:47. > :29:50.Mr Begg had complained about a short segment in an interview in November
:29:51. > :29:53.2013 with Farooq Murad, the then head of the Muslim Council
:29:54. > :29:55.of Britain, an organisation which claims to represent British
:29:56. > :30:01.In that interview, we described Mr Begg as an extremist speaker
:30:02. > :30:03.who had hailed jihad is the greatest of deeds.
:30:04. > :30:07.From his base of the Lewisham Islamic Centre, Mr Begg has been
:30:08. > :30:11.involved in a number of community organisations, including
:30:12. > :30:13.the Police Independent Advisory Group in Lewisham,
:30:14. > :30:18.Lewisham Council's Advisory Council on Religious Education
:30:19. > :30:21.and as a volunteer chaplain at Lewisham Hospital.
:30:22. > :30:26.But in his judgment, Mr Justice Haddon-Cave called
:30:27. > :30:30.Mr Begg a Jekyll and Hyde character - a trusted figure in his local
:30:31. > :30:33.community, but when talking to predominantly Muslim audiences
:30:34. > :30:38.he shed the cloak of respectability and revealed the horns of extremism.
:30:39. > :30:41.The judge cited one speech made by Mr Begg at a rally
:30:42. > :30:43.outside Belmarsh Prisonm- the high security prison that houses
:30:44. > :30:47.terrorists - as particularly sinister.
:30:48. > :30:49.The judge said the imam was expressing admiration and praise
:30:50. > :30:55.Following Friday's judgment, the hospital trust have told us that
:30:56. > :31:00.Mr Begg's status as a voluntary chaplain has been terminated.
:31:01. > :31:03.We have been told by Lewisham Council he is no longer
:31:04. > :31:05.on their Religious Education Committee.
:31:06. > :31:07.The Metropolitan Police have confirmed that
:31:08. > :31:12.Mr Begg remains a member of their Independent Advisory Group
:31:13. > :31:21.in Lewisham, as well as the borough's faith group.
:31:22. > :31:25.I am joined by Haras Rafiq, chief executive of the Quilliam
:31:26. > :31:33.Foundation. Welcome to the programme. I have here in my hand a
:31:34. > :31:39.statement from the trustees of the Lewisham Islamic Centre. They reject
:31:40. > :31:41.the judge's ruling as fanciful and say they are unequivocal and
:31:42. > :31:48.unwavering in their support of Shakeel Begg as their head imam
:31:49. > :31:52.What do you make of that? To be honest, it doesn't surprise me. At
:31:53. > :31:56.the end of the day he is only the imam of that mosque because he
:31:57. > :32:01.belongs to the same theological fundamentalist views that the mosque
:32:02. > :32:06.would portray. If they were to say he was an extremist, they would be
:32:07. > :32:09.saying in fact that they have allowed extremist preaching and
:32:10. > :32:15.extremist theology within their walls. I think this is a very
:32:16. > :32:21.important decision and a very important judgment by the judge
:32:22. > :32:26.First of all, these people like to operate in a linear, under a veneer
:32:27. > :32:31.of respectability. When that veneer is taken away, there are a number of
:32:32. > :32:35.things that can happen. First of all, the BBC did very well to stand
:32:36. > :32:42.by their guns and say, we're not going to be intimidated by somebody
:32:43. > :32:46.who is threatening to taking -- to take us to court for potential
:32:47. > :32:51.libel. Many other media companies have done that in the past and
:32:52. > :32:56.people have capitulated. Also, this has exposed him. Legally now, here's
:32:57. > :33:00.some deal can be classified as an extremist preacher, somebody who
:33:01. > :33:04.promotes religious violence. I think the mosque really needs to take a
:33:05. > :33:08.step back and say, how we part of the problem that we are facing
:33:09. > :33:16.within society? Or are we going to be part of the solution? It really
:33:17. > :33:21.concerns me. The High Court judge says that Mr Begg's speeches were
:33:22. > :33:29.consistent with an extremist Salafist is the most worldview. What
:33:30. > :33:38.is Salafist is and how widespread is it in UK mosques? -- mosque. It
:33:39. > :33:42.comes from the Middle East. It is from Saudi Arabia. The enemy for
:33:43. > :33:51.them was the old colonial Ottoman Empire. There is the quiet Salafist
:33:52. > :33:53.to get some with their lives, lives outside society. There is a
:33:54. > :33:57.revolutionary who tries to convert other people to their worldview And
:33:58. > :34:04.then there is the Salafist jihad ease. People like Islamic State etc.
:34:05. > :34:07.We have seen of increased in recent decades because of money that has,
:34:08. > :34:13.growing from the Middle East. When that is mixed with a political
:34:14. > :34:17.ideology, it becomes potent. Do we have a political -- particular
:34:18. > :34:23.problem in Britain with this in our mosques? Absolutely. Without the
:34:24. > :34:26.theology that says hate the other, hate other Muslims, that
:34:27. > :34:31.excommunicate other people, that says it is OK to fight and is good
:34:32. > :34:35.to fight when you have got an enemy, we wouldn't really have a jihadi
:34:36. > :34:43.problem. Really that is something we have to tackle. The number of
:34:44. > :34:47.mosques and institutions supporting Salafist and Islam is has been on
:34:48. > :34:52.the increase. Do we have a problem with what the judge called Jekyll
:34:53. > :34:58.and Hyde characters who hide their extremism except when they are
:34:59. > :35:03.speaking to specific groups? Absolutely. One of the things we
:35:04. > :35:07.have focused on in the past, a number of hate preachers now in
:35:08. > :35:11.prison, people like Anjem Choudary, and everybody focused on them. But
:35:12. > :35:15.there is a range of people operating under that level. People who will
:35:16. > :35:20.show one face to the community because they actually need that for
:35:21. > :35:23.a respectability. They need that for a legitimacy. They need that to
:35:24. > :35:28.operate. When they are behind closed doors and talking to their
:35:29. > :35:33.constitution, that is when you will see the real face of what these
:35:34. > :35:37.people believe. It is an increasing phenomenon. We are seeing it more.
:35:38. > :35:44.And we're going to carry on seeing it. Not just has the Lewisham mosque
:35:45. > :35:48.stuck by him, but given the clarity of the judge's ruling, are you
:35:49. > :35:53.surprised that the Metropolitan police would wish to continue with
:35:54. > :35:56.Mr Begg as an adviser? I'm absolutely shocked that that
:35:57. > :36:02.decision. What Uzzy going to do Advise them on how to deal with
:36:03. > :36:04.extremist preachers and promote religiously motivated violence? I
:36:05. > :36:10.don't know what he's going to advise them on. Because we now have a judge
:36:11. > :36:13.that has ruled against him and actually classified him as an
:36:14. > :36:18.extremist and somebody who promotes religious violence, we actually have
:36:19. > :36:23.a possibility for the CPS to actually prosecute him. There is a
:36:24. > :36:26.law that has been in place since 2005 called religiously motivated
:36:27. > :36:31.violence. If he has been classified as somebody who promotes this, there
:36:32. > :36:35.is a potential for the CPS to prosecute. I want to called into
:36:36. > :36:39.question other organisations, interfaith organisations, other
:36:40. > :36:46.Muslims groups, who say they want to fight extremism, I call on them to
:36:47. > :36:54.say, this guy is an extremist preacher, we should cut our ties
:36:55. > :36:59.from him. This was a very high risk strategy by the BBC. The exposure
:37:00. > :37:04.could have been over ?1.5 million of licence payers money. Will this make
:37:05. > :37:11.it more difficult for Jekyll and Hyde characters to behave as Mr Begg
:37:12. > :37:15.has behaved? Absolutely. It will do. One of the things they will now have
:37:16. > :37:22.to make sure is that they are a lot more careful. Careful with what they
:37:23. > :37:26.say to their own constituency. It won't solve the theological problem.
:37:27. > :37:30.But it will actually stop other people from operating in this manner
:37:31. > :37:34.and allow other media organisations to have the confidence to expose
:37:35. > :37:37.them when they do. Haras Rafiq, thank you for joining us.
:37:38. > :37:39.It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:37:40. > :37:41.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:37:42. > :38:00.Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead.
:38:01. > :38:03.Hello and welcome to the Sunday Politics for the Midlands.
:38:04. > :38:05.We're making a drama out of a crisis this week.
:38:06. > :38:06.Enoch Powell's Rivers of
:38:07. > :38:09.Blood speech was one of the dynamite moments in 20th-century polhtics.
:38:10. > :38:15.So what exactly is the legacy of
:38:16. > :38:17.the then Right Honourable mdmber for Wolverhampton South West?
:38:18. > :38:19.Adrian Bailey is also a Black Country MP.
:38:20. > :38:21.He is the Labour member for West Bromwich West
:38:22. > :38:25.and Nadhim Zahawi is the Conservative MP
:38:26. > :38:31.He is himself an immigrant, having been born in Iraq.
:38:32. > :38:36.And we will also be reflecting on what that
:38:37. > :38:40.government decision on airport policy will mean,
:38:41. > :38:45.We begin with a howl of angtish from Labour's candidate
:38:46. > :38:48.Andy Burnham complains that the government is now
:38:49. > :38:50.more concerned about the Midlands Engine than the Northern Powerhouse.
:38:51. > :38:59.For so long, the boat was on the other foot.
:39:00. > :39:01.Mr Burnham won't have enjoydd Prime Minister's Questions
:39:02. > :39:07.Halesowen MP James Morris invited Theresa May to
:39:08. > :39:10.big up our part of the country, and so she did.
:39:11. > :39:14.My honourable friend speaks up well for the Black Country,
:39:15. > :39:18.and I'm pleased to echo his comments about economic growth
:39:19. > :39:25.Since 2010 we've seen over 220, 00 more jobs in the region,
:39:26. > :39:27.55,000 more new businesses, in the region,
:39:28. > :39:31.but he's right, the devoluthon deal is important.
:39:32. > :39:32.It is the biggest devolution deal that's being done.
:39:33. > :39:40.She says the West Midlands has the biggest devolution deal of all.
:39:41. > :39:43.Well, we are grateful to the Birmingham Mail for flagging up
:39:44. > :39:46.figures that question just how well that claim stands up to scrttiny.
:39:47. > :39:48.According to the National Audit Office, our deal
:39:49. > :39:53.is worth ?36.5 million for each of the next 30 years.
:39:54. > :39:56.That is indeed more than anywhere else gets.
:39:57. > :39:59.But, per head, it works out at just ?13 each.
:40:00. > :40:02.That's less than Liverpool, which will get more than ?20 a head,
:40:03. > :40:04.Sheffield, which will get ?22 per head, and
:40:05. > :40:13.covers the Bristol and Bath areas, which receives ?27 per head.
:40:14. > :40:15.Andy Burnham will be thrilled to know
:40:16. > :40:18.Manchester does even worse than we do, at ?11 per head.
:40:19. > :40:21.But, Nadhim, how can it be right for someone
:40:22. > :40:23.living in Bath, one of the most prosperous
:40:24. > :40:25.places in the country, to
:40:26. > :40:30.get less than half as good a deal as someone in
:40:31. > :40:37.Well, I think we can trade figures here...
:40:38. > :40:43.But let's not forget, ?36.5 million over the next 30 years is
:40:44. > :40:48.also the number plus an addhtional ?8 billion of investment,
:40:49. > :40:53.There's lots and lots of infrastructure
:40:54. > :40:57.investment to come on top of that number,
:40:58. > :41:01.which I think gives us a pretty strong deal.
:41:02. > :41:04.I should say that the West of England gets twice
:41:05. > :41:06.as good a deal per head as the West Midlands and
:41:07. > :41:09.that looks like a sort of rdrunning of the imbalance in the
:41:10. > :41:15.way that local authorities `re funded, between the Tory Windsors
:41:16. > :41:17.and Wokinghams we keep hearhng about, and Wolverhampton and
:41:18. > :41:21.I don't think they are getthng ?8 billion worth of
:41:22. > :41:29.So the ?13 per head, the ?36.5 million, per year
:41:30. > :41:33.for the next 30 years, on top of that number is an additional
:41:34. > :41:35.?8 billion of investment here to deliver the infrastructure
:41:36. > :41:39.Nadhim makes a point that it is worth a lot of
:41:40. > :41:42.money in practice, and it is actually the biggest devolution deal
:41:43. > :41:48.Yes, well, you can bandy the figures around.
:41:49. > :41:53.I do think it's disappointing that it is less than
:41:54. > :41:57.other far more affluent are`s, and it's true that we will be
:41:58. > :41:59.receiving other investment, but if you actually
:42:00. > :42:01.look in other regions, there are comparable
:42:02. > :42:10.schemes, particularly in the North of England.
:42:11. > :42:19.So I would want to see that the Midlands Metro Mayor
:42:20. > :42:21.and the combined authorities working together to demonstrate what
:42:22. > :42:26.contribution West Midlands lakes to the national economy,
:42:27. > :42:29.going to the Minister and s`ying, look, we are a thriving,
:42:30. > :42:36.building area, and we need more support.
:42:37. > :42:41.I think we need a real business led government
:42:42. > :42:51.When Chris Grayling sets out the government's vision of ` third
:42:52. > :42:53.Heathrow runway, Birmingham Airport didn't even
:42:54. > :42:55.rate a mention on Wednesday. Why should it?
:42:56. > :42:59.This was all about airports in south-east Engl`nd.
:43:00. > :43:05.Except that the prospect of Birmingham becoming Britain's first
:43:06. > :43:08.High Speed Rail connected ahrport had raised expectations that it
:43:09. > :43:10.too, could expect a slice of the action.
:43:11. > :43:11.Some MPs questioned the government's commitment
:43:12. > :43:17.You can fly nonstop from Birmingham
:43:18. > :43:20.to 140 destinations worldwide, but not Heathrow.
:43:21. > :43:24.Unlike airports further north, whose London feeder flights
:43:25. > :43:28.are a significant chunk of their business, here,
:43:29. > :43:31.it's harder to justify prechous slots into Britain's
:43:32. > :43:32.global hub, even up against today's train services,
:43:33. > :43:42.Sir Howard Davies, chairman of the Independent Airports
:43:43. > :43:44.Commission, thanks Birmingh`m's HS2 connections makes it a bettdr bet
:43:45. > :43:46.even than Gatwick for future expansion.
:43:47. > :43:48.That had Birmingham's counchl leader John Clancy on social media
:43:49. > :43:50.predicting a supersonic boost for the local economy.
:43:51. > :43:53.Birmingham Airport is a really important
:43:54. > :43:57.economic institution in this city and this region.
:43:58. > :43:59.Meanwhile, the Transport Secretary was
:44:00. > :44:03.Why can we not still be talking about the expansion of
:44:04. > :44:08.No doubt others will have their views
:44:09. > :44:09.about further expansion of regional airports.
:44:10. > :44:16.But, for now, Chris Grayling said his focus was on London.
:44:17. > :44:19.Labour questioned the government commitment to regions like ours
:44:20. > :44:23.What message does that send to Stansted, Manchester,
:44:24. > :44:25.Birmingham and East Midlands about the government's commitment to
:44:26. > :44:28.the so-called Northern Powerhouse or the Midlands Engine?
:44:29. > :44:29.But environmental campaigners say the less airport
:44:30. > :44:36.What I think we should be doing is building
:44:37. > :44:39.a home-grown economy based on areas we know will grow, like low carbon
:44:40. > :44:42.manufacturing, for example, and that way we can build a more reshlient
:44:43. > :44:45.economy that there that's ldss reliant on overseas money, on
:44:46. > :44:48.airport expansion, and can provide more secure jobs now, and for years
:44:49. > :44:52.London's airports are full tp, and the new airports are unlikely
:44:53. > :44:59.Ample time, say Birmingham @irport bosses to persuade more airlines
:45:00. > :45:04.and their passengers to vote with their feet.
:45:05. > :45:07.We've just seen Birmingham's Labour Leader John Clancy there,
:45:08. > :45:10.venturing out into the wilds of social media,
:45:11. > :45:12.but he's now back in the warm embrace
:45:13. > :45:15.of classic BBC One here with us today.
:45:16. > :45:17.You were very excited in th`t clip, John,
:45:18. > :45:20.Because Birmingham Airport, the airport that
:45:21. > :45:25.you were bigging up, didn't even merit a mention by Chris Gr`yling.
:45:26. > :45:28.It didn't, and obviously I would have liked some kind of
:45:29. > :45:33.I understand that it was a Heathrow- Gatwick thing that needed to be
:45:34. > :45:35.dealt with inside the party in a particular way this wedk.
:45:36. > :45:38.I think, as time goes on, it will be
:45:39. > :45:40.inevitable that Birmingham will start to be mentioned.
:45:41. > :45:45.So what indeed is your vision for Birmingham
:45:46. > :45:46.Airport, long-term, and the economic value which
:45:47. > :45:50.I think Birmingham Airport can actually bring a supersonic
:45:51. > :45:54.I think, actually, if you don't have
:45:55. > :45:57.a thriving airport in an ambitious, growing city, it actually holds
:45:58. > :46:05.And I think by the time we get to the mid-2020s Birmingham,
:46:06. > :46:07.if it doesn't expand, it will be at capacity.
:46:08. > :46:11.Actually, once we get HS2 hdre, it's a competitive airport
:46:12. > :46:14.I have to say, you will be 38 minutes from London
:46:15. > :46:17.Euston to Birmingham International Airport.
:46:18. > :46:20.I think that means that people and freight will start
:46:21. > :46:27.to look at Birmingham as the inevitable.
:46:28. > :46:31.Which is why Beverly Neilson, the Liberal Democrat
:46:32. > :46:33.mayoral candidate, talked about the idea of
:46:34. > :46:36.a second runway the Birmingham because of the HS2 connection.
:46:37. > :46:39.I think is important that we now put our plans
:46:40. > :46:41.together, independently, if you like, economic
:46:42. > :46:43.self-determination as an ambitious area and how we start
:46:44. > :46:47.Down the line, a second runway, I think would
:46:48. > :46:54.any railway line, it actually goes in both directions, doesn't it?
:46:55. > :46:56.And a high-speed line with a spur to Heathrow,
:46:57. > :46:57.plenty of Midlanders could
:46:58. > :47:01.go the other way, actually,
:47:02. > :47:03.and doesn't that create the question of
:47:04. > :47:05.whether, long-term, Birmingham needs to be a major airport rather less
:47:06. > :47:08.than it does now, if Heathrow becomes so much closer on
:47:09. > :47:13.I think it will more be the other way around.
:47:14. > :47:14.I think it is more likely that people
:47:15. > :47:19.That's the rebalancing of both freight and
:47:20. > :47:22.tourist passengers, I think, which is going to be inevit`ble
:47:23. > :47:24.You're bringing two great transport things together.
:47:25. > :47:42.It will be good for the economy it will help the economy
:47:43. > :47:43.grow inclusively, it brings jobs, even brings homes.
:47:44. > :47:46.You have heard, Nadhim, John talking very ambitiously there and
:47:47. > :47:48.yet, Chris Grayling early rdlease all regional airports in terms of
:47:49. > :47:51.feeder flights to London whhch, as we have seen in a report,
:47:52. > :47:54.it's a market in which Birmhngham doesn't exist at all.
:47:55. > :47:56.So it's a very bleak future he is setting out,
:47:57. > :47:59.All that's unfair, because Chris was,
:48:00. > :48:01.as John quite rightly recognised, announcing the Heathrow
:48:02. > :48:03.versus Gatwick and he was rhght to focus on that.
:48:04. > :48:05.It's a big deal for those parliamentarians who
:48:06. > :48:09.But more importantly, Birmingham Shakespeare Airport
:48:10. > :48:12.as it is described on this Chief Executive's business card
:48:13. > :48:14.and in China, is going to have a huge opportunity.
:48:15. > :48:23.John referred to it, HS2, half an hour from
:48:24. > :48:26.London to Birmingham Airport versus, and wait for this one,
:48:27. > :48:27.Liverpool Street to Stansted, 45 minutes.
:48:28. > :48:30.It will make us so much mord competitive which is why
:48:31. > :48:33.I think a supersonic boost is something I can easily agree
:48:34. > :48:36.How do you see the balance between the business case
:48:37. > :48:39.and environmental case, which we have heard the Gredn Party
:48:40. > :48:43.Can I say that I think Chris Grayling
:48:44. > :48:46.let the cat out of the bag, that they have been
:48:47. > :48:50.The fact is the government has missed an opportunity to underline
:48:51. > :48:58.And Birmingham Airport, outlined in the
:48:59. > :49:00.Davies Report has a great future with a booming
:49:01. > :49:05.manufacturing economy here
:49:06. > :49:08.and the opening of our conndctions to the Middle East and the Far East
:49:09. > :49:10.as well, the balance of environment and business,
:49:11. > :49:13.that is a dilemma that all airports face.
:49:14. > :49:19.And the advantage for Birmingham over, say, Heathrow
:49:20. > :49:23.is the fact that, locally, Birmingham Airport is something like
:49:24. > :49:26.48% owned by the local authorities, and there are very good procedures
:49:27. > :49:32.to enable communication, consultation and transparency that
:49:33. > :49:35.will overcome some of the public opposition to it.
:49:36. > :49:39.Northern connections as well, presumably, as
:49:40. > :49:41.part of the equation for Birmingham, for people of North of this city
:49:42. > :49:48.Absolutely, but the important point here is,
:49:49. > :49:50.as the Davies Report says, Birmingham is a great opportunity,
:49:51. > :49:52.but when it reaches capacitx we can begin to
:49:53. > :49:55.look at a second runway. But it's a huge opportunity for us.
:49:56. > :50:02.Cross-Party, without trying to play politics with it.
:50:03. > :50:04.Over to you, John party. Is it going to happen?
:50:05. > :50:07.Because people were concerndd that it had been kicked
:50:08. > :50:09.into the long grass, like so much else.
:50:10. > :50:11.No, in fact, it's up to the people of the West Midlands
:50:12. > :50:19.We won't wait for permission, we will make it happen.
:50:20. > :50:22.It is remembered as the Rivdrs of Blood speech and, although, Enoch
:50:23. > :50:25.Powell himself never used those words but his
:50:26. > :50:34.Britain was on the brink of race riots and social catastrophd.
:50:35. > :50:36.Now, after the Brexit referdndum, where immigration loomed large
:50:37. > :50:38.once again, the arguments aroused have a new resonance.
:50:39. > :50:41.Our political reporter Rob Leyer explains how the
:50:42. > :50:44.city where Mr Powell delivered it has made a drama out of a crisis.
:50:45. > :50:49.It's 1968 and Enoch Powell hs about to change the debate
:50:50. > :50:58.It is like watching a nation busily engaged in heaping
:50:59. > :51:03.Almost 50 years since the Rivers of Blood speech
:51:04. > :51:05.divided the country, it is being replayed on stage
:51:06. > :51:07.in Chris Hannan's play, What Shadows.
:51:08. > :51:12.What does the man playing Enoch Powell
:51:13. > :51:14.think the the former Wolverhampton South West MP would make
:51:15. > :51:24.I'm sure he is looking down with bemusement.
:51:25. > :51:30.He will be absolutely thrilled by Brexit because he was
:51:31. > :51:33.completely opposed to the common market as it was, then,
:51:34. > :51:37.He would also feel that his predictions, which people fdlt
:51:38. > :51:39.were exaggerated and dire, were becoming closer to reality
:51:40. > :51:46.Rebecca takes the role of an Oxford academic and immigrant's
:51:47. > :51:48.daughter, Rose Cruickshank, whose childhood was shatterdd by
:51:49. > :51:59.He says that as well as being divisive, it shut down debate. In
:52:00. > :52:03.his speech there are things you can kind of understand but therd was
:52:04. > :52:07.some very hateful rhetoric `nd the words he used were disgusting and
:52:08. > :52:14.parts. When he was cast out that the conversation around race and culture
:52:15. > :52:17.stopped. And because any qudstioning of Britain's multicultural hdentity
:52:18. > :52:28.was seen as racist, because often it was framed in a very racist way
:52:29. > :52:32.Powell was inundated with stpport of letters, and marches organised by
:52:33. > :52:36.those in favour of his views. But the speech cost Enoch Powell his job
:52:37. > :52:38.any Conservative Shadow Cabhnet It also brought an end to a long-term
:52:39. > :52:43.friendship with the editor of the friendship with the editor of the
:52:44. > :52:47.local newspaper, Clem Jones. Senior and a family picnic two years before
:52:48. > :52:53.the speech, he had advised Powell on how to maximise media cover`ge.
:52:54. > :52:56.Years later, looking through the archives, his son, Nick, a former
:52:57. > :53:02.BBC correspondent, said he had lived to regret that advice. They were
:53:03. > :53:06.looking after Powell's two daughters and reading the speech becatse by
:53:07. > :53:12.then my father had got the full text and my mother was shocked. Ly father
:53:13. > :53:17.was shocked. In my mother 's words, Enoch Powell had "Crossed the line".
:53:18. > :53:20.The speech was made on a Saturday afternoon and my father knew that on
:53:21. > :53:24.Monday the express and Star would love to say something about the
:53:25. > :53:25.speech. And for the first thme he's talking about the damage th`t the
:53:26. > :53:31.speech could cause, the extravagant speech could cause, the extravagant
:53:32. > :53:38.language that Enoch Powell was using. Most of these letters are in
:53:39. > :53:41.support of Enoch Powell. 95$ of the letters the paper got were hn
:53:42. > :53:46.support of Enoch Powell. Sole say that Ukip are the heirs of Dnoch
:53:47. > :53:50.Powell's speech. At this Birmingham hotel one MEP made national
:53:51. > :53:54.headlines by quoting last ydar, and he says that it's still difficult to
:53:55. > :53:58.talk openly about immigration. I used one small piece from hhs speech
:53:59. > :54:03.and said he was wrong in general about it, but in terms of that one
:54:04. > :54:08.segment he had a point. And I was in the national news. It is ridiculous.
:54:09. > :54:13.We have got to learn to be `ble to door properly without any of this
:54:14. > :54:16.hysteria. It seems like we light still be talking about that speech
:54:17. > :54:21.in another 50 years. And Wh`t Shadows will be running at the
:54:22. > :54:27.Birmingham repertory Theatrd until the 12th of November. As a black
:54:28. > :54:31.Country MP, how do you assess the legacy of that speech by Enoch
:54:32. > :54:35.Powell, given that the lesson of this Brexit referendum is that
:54:36. > :54:41.immigration is an issue, a very live issue, on the doorstep in your part
:54:42. > :54:47.of the country? I lived verx near the Black Country when he m`de that
:54:48. > :54:50.speech and I remember the local reaction, the demonstrations and
:54:51. > :55:01.strikes and violence that took place not just in Wolverhampton btt in
:55:02. > :55:03.failed in one of the primarx duties failed in one of the primarx duties
:55:04. > :55:06.of a politician. As elected representatives are job shotld be to
:55:07. > :55:09.try and make life better for people. He failed in that, because he made a
:55:10. > :55:12.whole lot of people that he, as Health Minister, had recruited to
:55:13. > :55:13.this country, insecure and subject to violent behaviour. I think it was
:55:14. > :55:19.appalling. Everything you s`id has appalling. Everything you s`id has
:55:20. > :55:24.subsequently been proved wrong. My doctor is ethnic minority. Some of
:55:25. > :55:27.the most thriving businesses in my constituency are ethnic minorities.
:55:28. > :55:32.Some might say that the Handsworth riots and the inner-city riots of
:55:33. > :55:36.2011, that there is an elemdnt of truth in what Enoch Powell said
:55:37. > :55:40.There has been some social discontent in some areas at some
:55:41. > :55:44.times. They were very much ` feature of the deprivation of that `rea and
:55:45. > :55:49.a protest against it, rather than a race based protest. The actor in
:55:50. > :55:52.that report said that the effect of the Enoch Powell speech was to close
:55:53. > :55:57.down discussion on immigrathon. It became a taboo subject for lany
:55:58. > :56:03.really has changed permanently now? really has changed permanently now?
:56:04. > :56:06.I think she had a point in the sense that what you don't want is a
:56:07. > :56:10.situation word you cannot actually talk about immigration and `bout
:56:11. > :56:16.British values, like immigr`nts like my family came here, I was ` year
:56:17. > :56:22.old when speech was made but I did not come to the UK for another nine
:56:23. > :56:29.years. I was born in Baghdad, my name is Nadhim Zahawi. My
:56:30. > :56:32.constituency is 93% affluent white constituents, and they voted for
:56:33. > :56:36.Nadhim Zahawi. That is why this country is so good. I do believe
:56:37. > :56:39.that we are in any way racist and we don't welcome people. And I don t
:56:40. > :56:43.think there's a link between that and the Brexit vote. I think it is
:56:44. > :56:49.insulting for it to be challenged in that way. During the referendum you
:56:50. > :56:54.supported the league campaign, which is being widely seen as licdnsing a
:56:55. > :57:05.kind of xenophobia. I don't believe that is true. We are having denial
:57:06. > :57:08.language, maybe not from yot, was language, maybe not from yot, was
:57:09. > :57:13.intemperate about immigration in this country, and some people took
:57:14. > :57:19.that as providing a rationale for them to behave in an anti-social
:57:20. > :57:25.way. There's a difference bdtween having an open or chaotic
:57:26. > :57:29.immigration policy which we have for 13 years of labour, and not being
:57:30. > :57:33.straight with the British pdople about what happened when thd
:57:34. > :57:37.European access and states came in. That is a policy that your
:57:38. > :57:41.government had. We can debate those things but I don't think thhs
:57:42. > :57:44.country is in any way racist. One of the great thing that the Caleron
:57:45. > :57:50.government introduced is thd teaching of British values `t
:57:51. > :57:55.school. They teach them how to integrate these different countries
:57:56. > :58:04.into the UK now. I want to lake it quite clear, Labour did not have an
:58:05. > :58:07.open immigration policy. We could go on, but we are going to havd to
:58:08. > :58:12.leave this one there. For the moment, thank you. Let's catch up
:58:13. > :58:16.with the rest of the political developments making the news in the
:58:17. > :58:22.last week. The 62nd round up is brought to you by any call. West
:58:23. > :58:26.Midlands MEP Bill Etheridge has pulled out of the race to bdcome
:58:27. > :58:37.Ukip leader and given his b`cking to Paul Noble. Louise Allen is calling
:58:38. > :58:40.child hostages and bring in her child hostages and bring in her
:58:41. > :58:45.constituents of the debate was held in Parliament and consuming problems
:58:46. > :58:48.of getting legal aid to the families of victims ahead of the inqtest into
:58:49. > :58:57.the 21 victims of the Birmingham pub bombings. They are just ordhnary,
:58:58. > :59:02.working-class people, who are fighting injustice in the f`ce of
:59:03. > :59:06.powerful actors. Local MP D`lla Riva has called on the cover to support
:59:07. > :59:08.local councils after it emerged that Walsall Art Gallery is being
:59:09. > :59:13.threatened with closure bec`use of budget cuts. And 40 tenant farmers
:59:14. > :59:17.are being evicted by Herefordshire Council so that the land can be
:59:18. > :59:23.sold. The authority needs the money to fund the growing care bill for
:59:24. > :59:28.elderly and vulnerable people. Put all that together and the threatened
:59:29. > :59:31.eviction of those farmers, the cost of caring for the elderly, bed
:59:32. > :59:34.blocking, the threat, maybe to the blocking, the threat, maybe to the
:59:35. > :59:39.art gallery and Walsall, thd austerity cuts, you feel soletimes
:59:40. > :59:45.as though they are whipping is into a perfect storm. My underst`nding of
:59:46. > :59:49.the situation in Hereford is that there was a backlog of costs of ?2.7
:59:50. > :59:55.million to effectively bring those farms up-to-date. 23 out of the 40
:59:56. > :59:59.tenant farmers will not feel any change. Anyone who is in a lifetime
:00:00. > :00:06.retirement farm will not fedl any change. But this is about what local
:00:07. > :00:09.government is about, about delivering services. This
:00:10. > :00:12.demonstrates the sheer stuphdity of some of the funding cost local
:00:13. > :00:16.authorities have had to facd. This will result in more problems rather
:00:17. > :00:21.than fewer problems and is ` direct result of government policy. My
:00:22. > :00:26.thanks to Adrian Bailey and Nadhim Zahawi. Finally, Alex Cooke, the
:00:27. > :00:31.Conservative MP for Cheltenham will be opening the debate at Westminster
:00:32. > :00:35.next Wednesday about the impact of social media on the mental health of
:00:36. > :00:38.young people. And on this programme next week, we will be joined by the
:00:39. > :00:43.Conservative candidate for Lidlands Metro Mayor, Andy Street, who will
:00:44. > :00:46.be giving his first TV interview after standing down as managing
:00:47. > :00:55.director of Barely more than a week
:00:56. > :00:59.now until polling day, and a new revelation rocks the US
:01:00. > :01:09.Presidential election campaign. If it wasn't bizarre enough, it just
:01:10. > :01:13.got more bizarre. The FBI have reopened their
:01:14. > :01:15.investigation into Hillary Clinton's use of private email servers
:01:16. > :01:17.whilst she was Secretary of State, after the discovery
:01:18. > :01:25.of further emails. Though not on her laptop or even the
:01:26. > :01:30.State Department. Donald Trump is saying that it's
:01:31. > :01:32.bigger than Watergate - so could it swing the election
:01:33. > :01:35.in his favour? We spoke to top US
:01:36. > :01:37.pollster, Frank Luntz. The FBI investigation is happening
:01:38. > :01:40.so late in the election process that it would be very difficult
:01:41. > :01:44.to derail a Clinton victory. That said, if there is one thing
:01:45. > :01:47.that could keep Hillary Clinton from the presidency,
:01:48. > :01:53.it's an FBI investigation. But there's still only four states
:01:54. > :01:55.that really matter, Florida, Ohio, Right now, Clinton has
:01:56. > :02:00.beyond the margin of error leads This would have to have a truly
:02:01. > :02:08.significant impact for the election There is a point about a week ago
:02:09. > :02:15.when I was prepared to say that Clinton had a 95% chance
:02:16. > :02:20.of winning this election. Based on what has happened
:02:21. > :02:26.in the last 48 hours, It is still very likely,
:02:27. > :02:31.but I wouldn't bet on it. I thought the 2000 election would be
:02:32. > :02:34.the best election of my lifetime, And then I thought 2008 would be
:02:35. > :02:39.amazing, because we had two challenger candidates and the first
:02:40. > :02:42.African-American President. It is ugly, it's painful,
:02:43. > :02:52.it is as negative as anything The public is angry,
:02:53. > :02:57.the country, overall, is frustrated. But for entertainment value,
:02:58. > :03:04.these candidates probably should have charged us money,
:03:05. > :03:08.because it's better than any movie at ever seen, it's
:03:09. > :03:21.better than any TV show. That was Frank Luntz. He may be
:03:22. > :03:28.right or wrong about Mrs Clinton still having an 80% chance of
:03:29. > :03:32.winning. I would bet on an 80% chance? Yes, absolutely. I spoke to
:03:33. > :03:35.a high-profile American pollster and strategist last night and he took a
:03:36. > :03:42.rather different view to Frank Luntz. He thought, and I think some
:03:43. > :03:44.other high-profile commentators agree, that this is actually much
:03:45. > :03:50.more serious than some people realise. There are an awful lot of
:03:51. > :03:54.undecided voters out there looking for an excuse to vote Trump. They do
:03:55. > :03:58.not like what they see in either candidate. But because this FBI
:03:59. > :04:04.probe is not going to conclude before the election, the question,
:04:05. > :04:08.the doubt over Hillary Clinton, gives them an excuse to back Trump.
:04:09. > :04:13.The thing that will play on the minds of the voters is, could the
:04:14. > :04:19.100 day honeymoon turning to the 100 day divorce? Which even be
:04:20. > :04:24.impeached? It may give some people an excuse not to vote for Mrs
:04:25. > :04:28.Clinton. It could provide a problem in terms of energising her base The
:04:29. > :04:35.battle ground almost matters more than the polls. Florida and
:04:36. > :04:41.Pennsylvania have been trending to Mrs Clinton. Mr Trump needs to win
:04:42. > :04:50.both. He does not get in without both. He needs both. Just coming up
:04:51. > :04:53.in the latest BBC News, the Washington Post tracking poll, Mrs
:04:54. > :05:01.Clinton is now only one point ahead in the national poll. One point
:05:02. > :05:07.Even given my caveat that the state battles are most important. That is
:05:08. > :05:14.incredibly close? It is. Polls yesterday showed Trump nationally
:05:15. > :05:16.closing of. -- up. There is a clear trend and movement. This has
:05:17. > :05:22.reinforced everything that people who have a problem with Hillary
:05:23. > :05:26.Clinton know about Hillary Clinton. Trump is running this insurgent
:05:27. > :05:31.campaign. We have seen at here with Brexit. If you are running an
:05:32. > :05:33.insurgent campaign, you want to be against the ultimate establishment
:05:34. > :05:39.insider and that is what Hillary Clinton is. I suggested it was
:05:40. > :05:44.bizarre. Fathoming the behaviour of the FBI is interesting as well. This
:05:45. > :05:48.is a separate investigation into a former congressman, Anthony Wiener,
:05:49. > :05:57.who had done all sorts of things. He seemed to be sex text thing a minor.
:05:58. > :06:01.A 15-year-old girl. The FBI investigate. They get his laptop to
:06:02. > :06:07.see what else he has been too. In the course of that, his wife, now
:06:08. > :06:13.separated, the closest adviser to Hillary Clinton, they find on the
:06:14. > :06:24.laptop e-mails involving the Clinton server to her. And yet the FBI
:06:25. > :06:28.cannot, it needs now a separate warrant to access these e-mails It
:06:29. > :06:32.hasn't got that yet. It has got a warrant to do the congressman
:06:33. > :06:39.e-mails. On the basis of not knowing the content, this has happened.
:06:40. > :06:45.Yeah. Who knows? He is a Republican, this guy. Earlier this year he was
:06:46. > :06:50.being praised to the hilt by Democrats. Absolutely. The timing is
:06:51. > :06:56.a nightmare for her. You described the whole sequence. There is nothing
:06:57. > :07:04.definitive to doubt in this sequence. All he is saying is he has
:07:05. > :07:11.discovered more e-mails in effect. They are from the congressman's
:07:12. > :07:16.former wife. On Anthony Wiener's laptop, which apparently she used
:07:17. > :07:20.sometimes. But what that shows is that for all the scrutiny of modern
:07:21. > :07:25.politicians, they cannot escape caricature. And as Tim was just
:07:26. > :07:31.saying, her weakness is perceived to be secretive, elitism and
:07:32. > :07:35.complacency about that elitism. And so just the announcement of a
:07:36. > :07:40.reopening of the investigation so fuels that caricature, you have just
:07:41. > :07:47.revealed a poll giving her a 1% lead. That must be related to what
:07:48. > :07:52.has happened. It is without a shred of evidence that she has done
:07:53. > :07:55.anything wrong. You can see how because people only see things
:07:56. > :08:02.encourage kids, that is deadly serious. -- in caricature. An
:08:03. > :08:07.American friend of mine said we have got our October surprise but we
:08:08. > :08:12.don't know what it is. The FBI must surely come under massive pressure.
:08:13. > :08:19.It did its -- it did this against the Justice Department. The
:08:20. > :08:24.difficulty the FBI had was that this information, for what it's worth, it
:08:25. > :08:27.came to them. Were they not to have said something and it worked to have
:08:28. > :08:32.come out later, they would have been accused of a massive cover-up. They
:08:33. > :08:37.are dammed if they do, dammed if they don't. There is still time for
:08:38. > :08:40.another surprise. And early November surprise. Who knows if there might
:08:41. > :08:47.still be something that comes out on Donald Trump? This is the first
:08:48. > :08:52.election where I can remember we have had two October surprises
:08:53. > :08:56.already. There are is stuff about tapes knocking around about Donald
:08:57. > :09:00.Trump saying racist things. The Clintons have got a lot of friends.
:09:01. > :09:02.It would be a big surprise if we did not see anything else in the next
:09:03. > :09:08.few days. Just when you think it could not get
:09:09. > :09:11.more interesting, it has. There has been plenty in the papers lately
:09:12. > :09:14.about the Ukip leadership saying unpleasant things about each other.
:09:15. > :09:17.But what about Mr Farage himself? What's he up to?
:09:18. > :09:19.Well, on BBC Two tonight we may find out the answer.
:09:20. > :09:26.Well, I'm led to believe she's very experienced.
:09:27. > :09:29.But I don't think Strictly Come Dancing is for me.
:09:30. > :09:35.That is, unless, of course, you fancy popping a cheeky zero
:09:36. > :09:39.No, I don't think Strictly Come Dancing is for me.
:09:40. > :09:45.Well, you tell Mr Balls he has just lost your programme one viewer.
:09:46. > :09:53.I might have nothing to do these days but, realistically,
:09:54. > :10:10.Well, that wasn't Nigel Farage. It is a BBC comedy on tonight. Nigel
:10:11. > :10:14.Farage gets his life back. A number of runners and riders. Let's come
:10:15. > :10:19.straight down to it. Who would be the next leader of Ukip? Probably
:10:20. > :10:26.Paul Nuttall. He is the favourite. The one who has the backing, not
:10:27. > :10:33.very enthusiastic backing, is Rahim Cassandra. And also Aaron Banks a
:10:34. > :10:40.big donor. The best of a rather weak lot. I think Paul Nuttall should
:10:41. > :10:51.squeak through. I interviewed all three of them this week. Mr
:10:52. > :10:55.Cassandra is a lively character and he knows how to make a few
:10:56. > :10:59.headlines. With a bit of money behind him, anything is possible.
:11:00. > :11:09.This is a guy who has been to the States, who has literally studied
:11:10. > :11:13.what Trump has done. Pees on secondment for the time being. The
:11:14. > :11:19.guy who is his line manager is one of Donald Trump's campaign stop He
:11:20. > :11:24.is extraordinarily right-wing. I am told he kept a picture of Enoch
:11:25. > :11:35.Powell by his bed. Barry Goldwater is one of his heroes, for example.
:11:36. > :11:42.There are other candidates. I would suggest, put out as a hypothesis,
:11:43. > :11:47.Paul Nuttall is Labour's worst nightmare. They are more vulnerable
:11:48. > :11:49.in the North. Paul Nuttall is from Merseyside, a working-class
:11:50. > :11:54.background, performs well on television. He is a really good
:11:55. > :11:59.interviewee. He is one of the best around in politics at the moment.
:12:00. > :12:03.However, I think whoever gets it has a massive task. The clip of this
:12:04. > :12:10.Nigel Farage satire partly shows why. His dominance was overwhelming.
:12:11. > :12:15.He, in many ways, did a brilliant job at keeping the show on the road.
:12:16. > :12:20.The trouble for all new political parties is keeping it going is
:12:21. > :12:24.tough. A very different party, the SDP, with all those glamorous
:12:25. > :12:28.figures in it, lasted eight years, something like that. I think they
:12:29. > :12:31.are in real trouble at the moment because of the implosion we have
:12:32. > :12:37.been seeing in front of our eyes and the ideal -- ideological splits
:12:38. > :12:46.Whoever gets it will face a tough tussle. All three of the main
:12:47. > :12:51.contenders want to put Nigel Farage in the House of Lords. They were
:12:52. > :12:54.falling over themselves to soak up two farads. That is how you win this
:12:55. > :13:00.election. Mr Aaron Banks, who is he putting
:13:01. > :13:06.his money on? He said he supports Rahim. I know Mr Banks is utterly
:13:07. > :13:09.fed with the shenanigans in Ukip. He thinks it is terribly disorganised,
:13:10. > :13:13.dysfunctional and doesn't want a great deal to do with it for the
:13:14. > :13:17.foreseeable future. It is not quite Trump the Clinton
:13:18. > :13:23.but it is interesting. That is it. The Daily Politics is back tomorrow.
:13:24. > :13:28.And all of next week. Jo Coburn will be your next Sunday because I am off
:13:29. > :13:32.to the United States to begin to rehearse presenting the BBC's US
:13:33. > :13:36.election night coverage on the th of November. It will be here on BBC
:13:37. > :13:37.One, BBC world, BBC News Channel and BBC
:13:38. > :13:39.online. Remember if it's Sunday,
:13:40. > :14:09.it's the Sunday Politics. A stone stained with blood
:14:10. > :14:13.and beset with a curse. The Moonstone is of
:14:14. > :14:17.inestimable value in India. Its appointed guardians would move
:14:18. > :14:20.heaven and earth to reclaim it Let us not let the past haunt
:14:21. > :14:29.all of our actions. You've got to do something!
:14:30. > :14:29.It's only you that can! He's a scientist,
:14:30. > :14:32.brilliant apparently.