:00:37. > :00:39.It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:40. > :00:42.Theresa May will be the first foreign leader to visit US
:00:43. > :00:45.President Donald Trump this week - she's promised to hold "very
:00:46. > :00:48.frank" conversations with the new and controversial
:00:49. > :00:55.Speaking of the 45th President of America,
:00:56. > :00:58.we'll be looking at what the Trump presidency could hold
:00:59. > :01:04.in store for Britain and the rest of the world.
:01:05. > :01:07.And with the Supreme Court expected to say that Parliament should
:01:08. > :01:10.have a vote before the Brexit process begins, we'll ask
:01:11. > :01:16.Shadow Home Secretary Diane Abbott what Labour will do next.
:01:17. > :01:18.And in the Midlands, coming soon, that Brexit by-election.
:01:19. > :01:21.Stoke voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU.
:01:22. > :01:23.Now Ukip's new leader's plotting a spectacular sequel.
:01:24. > :01:37.And to talk about all of that and more, I'm joined by three
:01:38. > :01:40.journalists who, in an era of so-called fake news, can be
:01:41. > :01:43.relied upon for their accuracy, their impartiality -
:01:44. > :01:47.and their willingness to come to the studio
:01:48. > :01:53.It's Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer
:01:54. > :01:59.and Tom Newton Dunn, and during the programme they'll be
:02:00. > :02:03.tweeting as often as the 45th President of the USA in the middle
:02:04. > :02:13.So - the Prime Minister has been appearing on the BBC this morning.
:02:14. > :02:16.She was mostly talking about Donald Trump and Brexit,
:02:17. > :02:19.but she was also asked about a story on the front of this
:02:20. > :02:23.It's reported that an unarmed Trident missile test fired
:02:24. > :02:29.from the submarine HMS Vengeance near the Florida coast in June
:02:30. > :02:37.The paper says the incident took place weeks before a crucial Commons
:02:38. > :02:41.Well, let's have listen to Theresa May talking
:02:42. > :02:47.The issue that we were talking about in the House of Commons
:02:48. > :02:50.It was about whether or not we should renew Trident,
:02:51. > :02:54.whether we should look to the future and have a replacement Trident.
:02:55. > :02:56.That's what we were talking about in the House of Commons.
:02:57. > :02:59.That's what the House of Commons voted for.
:03:00. > :03:04.He doesn't want to defend our country with an independent
:03:05. > :03:11.There are tests that take place all the time, regularly,
:03:12. > :03:20.What we were talking about in that debate that took place...
:03:21. > :03:27.I'm not going to get an answer to this.
:03:28. > :03:34.Tom, it was clear this was going to come up this morning. It is on the
:03:35. > :03:38.front page of the Sunday Times. It would seem to me the Prime Minister
:03:39. > :03:44.wasn't properly briefed on how to reply. I think she probably was, but
:03:45. > :03:48.the Prime Minister we now have doesn't necessarily answer all
:03:49. > :03:56.questions in the straightest way. She didn't answer that one and all.
:03:57. > :04:03.Unlike previous ones? She made it quite clear she was briefed. You
:04:04. > :04:07.read between the Theresa May lines. By simply not answering Andrew Marr
:04:08. > :04:11.four times, it is obvious she knew, and that she knew before she went
:04:12. > :04:17.into the House of Commons and urged everyone to renew the ?40 billion
:04:18. > :04:21.replacement programme. Of course it is an embarrassment, but does it
:04:22. > :04:27.have political legs? I don't think so. She didn't mislead the Commons.
:04:28. > :04:32.If she wanted to close it down, the answer should have been, these are
:04:33. > :04:36.matters of national security. There's nothing more important in
:04:37. > :04:42.that than our nuclear deterrent. I'm not prepared to talk about testing.
:04:43. > :04:48.End of. But she didn't. Maybe you should be briefing her. That's a
:04:49. > :04:53.good answer. She is an interesting interviewee. She shows it when she
:04:54. > :04:57.is nervous. She was transparently uneasy answering those questions,
:04:58. > :05:02.and the fact she didn't answer it definitively suggests she did know
:05:03. > :05:07.and didn't want to say it, and she answered awkwardly. But how wider
:05:08. > :05:12.point, that the House of Commons voted for the renewal of Trident,
:05:13. > :05:17.suggests to me that in the broader sweep of things, this will not run,
:05:18. > :05:23.because if there was another vote, I would suggest she'd win it again.
:05:24. > :05:28.But it is an embarrassment and she handled it with a transparent
:05:29. > :05:34.awkwardness. She said that the tests go on all the time, but not of the
:05:35. > :05:38.missiles. Does it not show that when the Prime Minister leaves her
:05:39. > :05:43.comfort zone of Home Office affairs or related matters, she often
:05:44. > :05:50.struggles. We've seen it under questioning from Mr Corbyn even, and
:05:51. > :05:53.we saw it again today. Absolutely. Tests of various aspects of the
:05:54. > :05:59.missiles go on all the time, but there's only been five since 2000.
:06:00. > :06:03.What you described wouldn't have worked, because in previous tests
:06:04. > :06:11.they have always been very public about it. Look how well our missiles
:06:12. > :06:19.work! She may not have misled Parliament, but she may not have
:06:20. > :06:23.known about it. If she didn't know, does Michael Fallon still have a job
:06:24. > :06:30.on Monday? Should Parliament know about a test that doesn't work? Some
:06:31. > :06:35.would say absolutely not. Our deterrent is there to deter people
:06:36. > :06:41.from attacking us. If they know that we are hitting the United States by
:06:42. > :06:45.mistake rather than the Atlantic Ocean, then... There is such a thing
:06:46. > :06:51.as national security, and telling all the bad guys about where we are
:06:52. > :06:55.going wrong may not be a good idea. It was her first statement as Prime
:06:56. > :07:01.Minister to put her case for renewal, to have the vote on
:07:02. > :07:05.Trident, and in that context, it is significant not to say anything. If
:07:06. > :07:08.anyone knows where the missile landed, give us a call!
:07:09. > :07:10.So Donald Trump's inauguration day closed with him dancing
:07:11. > :07:13.to Frank Sinatra's My Way, and whatever your view on the 45th
:07:14. > :07:16.President of the United States he certainly did do it his way.
:07:17. > :07:18.Not for him the idealistic call for national unity -
:07:19. > :07:21.instead he used Friday's inaugural address to launch a blistering
:07:22. > :07:24.attack on the dark state of the nation and the political
:07:25. > :07:28.class, and to promise to take his uncompromising approach
:07:29. > :07:33.from the campaign trail to the White House.
:07:34. > :07:36.Here's Adam Fleming, with a reminder of how
:07:37. > :07:45.First, dropping by for a cup of tea and a slightly awkward exchange
:07:46. > :07:54.Then, friends, foes and predecessors watched
:07:55. > :08:01.I, Donald John Trump, do solemnly swear...
:08:02. > :08:05.The crowds seemed smaller than previous inaugurations,
:08:06. > :08:10.the speech tougher then any previous incoming president.
:08:11. > :08:17.From this day forth, it's going to be only America first.
:08:18. > :08:41.In the meantime, there were sporadic protests in Washington, DC.
:08:42. > :08:46.Opponents made their voices heard around the world too.
:08:47. > :08:48.The President, who'd criticised the work of
:08:49. > :08:52.the intelligence agencies, fitted in a visit to the CIA.
:08:53. > :08:56.There is nobody that feels stronger about the intelligence community
:08:57. > :09:08.And, back at the office, in the dark, a signature signalled
:09:09. > :09:13.the end of the Obama era and the dawn of Trump.
:09:14. > :09:20.So, as you heard there, President Trump used his
:09:21. > :09:22.inauguration to repeat his campaign promise to put "America first"
:09:23. > :09:25.in all his decisions, and offered some hints of what to expect
:09:26. > :09:41.He talked of in America in carnage, to be rebuilt by American hands and
:09:42. > :09:45.American Labour. President Trump has already started to dismantle key
:09:46. > :09:50.parts of the Obama Legacy, including the unwinding of the affordable care
:09:51. > :09:56.act, and the siding of the climate action plan to tackle global
:09:57. > :10:00.warning. Little to say about foreign policy, but promised to eradicate
:10:01. > :10:05.Islamic terrorism from the face of the Earth, insisting he would
:10:06. > :10:11.restore the US military to unquestioning dominance. He also
:10:12. > :10:15.said the US would develop a state missile defence system to deal with
:10:16. > :10:20.threats he sees from Iran and North Korea. In a statement that painted a
:10:21. > :10:25.bleak picture of the country he now runs, he said his would be a law and
:10:26. > :10:31.order Administration, and he would keep the innocents safe by building
:10:32. > :10:36.the border war with Mexico. One thing he didn't mention, for the
:10:37. > :10:39.first time ever, there is a Eurosceptic in the oval office, who
:10:40. > :10:42.is also an enthusiast for Brexit. We're joined now by Ted Malloch -
:10:43. > :10:45.he's a Trump supporter who's been tipped as the president's
:10:46. > :10:47.choice for US ambassador to the EU, and he's
:10:48. > :10:49.just flown back from Washington. And by James Rubin -
:10:50. > :11:00.he's a democrat who served Let's start with that last point I
:11:01. > :11:08.made in the voice over there. We now have a Eurosceptic in the oval
:11:09. > :11:11.office. He is pro-Brexit and not keen on further European Union
:11:12. > :11:17.integration. What are the implications of that? First of all,
:11:18. > :11:22.a renewal of the US- UK special relationship. You see the Prime
:11:23. > :11:26.Minister already going to build and rebuild this relationship. Already,
:11:27. > :11:31.the bust of Winston Churchill is back in the oval office.
:11:32. > :11:36.Interestingly, Martin Luther King's bust is also there, so there is an
:11:37. > :11:42.act of unity in that first movement of dusts. Donald Trump will be
:11:43. > :11:53.oriented between bilateral relationships and not multilateral
:11:54. > :11:58.or supernatural. Supranational full. What are the implications of someone
:11:59. > :12:04.in the White House now not believing in it? I think we are present in the
:12:05. > :12:08.unravelling of America's leadership of the West. There is now a thing
:12:09. > :12:16.called the west that America has led since the end of World War II,
:12:17. > :12:25.creating supranational - we just heard supernatural! These
:12:26. > :12:30.institutions were created. With American leadership, the world was
:12:31. > :12:34.at peace in Europe, and the world grew increasingly democratic and
:12:35. > :12:39.prosperous. Wars were averted that could be extremely costly. When
:12:40. > :12:43.something works in diplomacy, you don't really understand what the
:12:44. > :12:47.consequences could have been. I think we've got complacent. The new
:12:48. > :12:53.president is taking advantage of that. It is a terrible tragedy that
:12:54. > :12:58.so many in the West take for granted the successful leadership and
:12:59. > :13:06.institutions we have built. You could argue, as James Rubin has
:13:07. > :13:10.argued in some articles, that... Will Mr Trump's America be more
:13:11. > :13:18.involved in the world than the Obama won? Or will it continue the process
:13:19. > :13:24.with running shoes on that began with Mr Obama? President Obama
:13:25. > :13:30.stepped back from American leadership. He withdrew from the
:13:31. > :13:33.world. He had a horrendous eight years in office, and American powers
:13:34. > :13:39.have diminished everywhere in the world, not just in Europe. That
:13:40. > :13:44.power will reassert. The focus will be on America first, but there are
:13:45. > :13:49.foreign interests around the world... How does it reassert itself
:13:50. > :13:54.around the world? I think the institutions will be recreated. Some
:13:55. > :14:00.may be taken down. There could be some new ones. I think Nato itself,
:14:01. > :14:04.and certainly the Defence Secretary will have discussions with Donald
:14:05. > :14:08.Trump about how Nato can be reshaped, and maybe there will be
:14:09. > :14:13.more burden sharing. That is an important thing for him. You are
:14:14. > :14:17.tipped to be the US ambassador to Brussels, to the EU, and we are
:14:18. > :14:22.still waiting to hear if that will happen. Is it true to say that Mr
:14:23. > :14:32.Trump does not believe in EU integration? I think you made that
:14:33. > :14:40.clear in the speech. He talked about supranational. He does not believe
:14:41. > :14:44.in those kinds of organisations. He is investing himself in bilateral
:14:45. > :14:49.relationships, the first of which will be with the UK. So we have a
:14:50. > :14:55.president who does not believe in EU integration and has been highly
:14:56. > :15:00.critical of Nato. Do the people he has appointed to defend, Secretary
:15:01. > :15:04.of State, national security, do you think that will temper this
:15:05. > :15:12.anti-NATO wretched? Will he come round to a more pro-NATO situation?
:15:13. > :15:17.I think those of us who care about America's situation in the world
:15:18. > :15:21.will come in to miss President Obama a lot. I think the Secretary of
:15:22. > :15:27.State and the faculty of defence will limit the damage and will urge
:15:28. > :15:32.him not to take formal steps to unravel this most powerful and most
:15:33. > :15:38.successful alliance in history, the Nato alliance. But the damage is
:15:39. > :15:42.already being done. When you are the leader of the West, leadership means
:15:43. > :15:49.you are persuading, encouraging, bolstering your leadership and these
:15:50. > :15:53.institutions by the way you speak. Millions, if not hundreds of
:15:54. > :15:55.millions of people, have now heard the US say that what they care about
:15:56. > :16:04.is within their borders. What do you say to that? It is such
:16:05. > :16:14.an overstatement. The point is that Donald Trump is in a Jacksonian
:16:15. > :16:17.tradition of national populism. He is appealing to the people first.
:16:18. > :16:22.The other day, I was sitting below this page during the address, and he
:16:23. > :16:26.said, everyone sitting behind me as part of the problem. Everyone in
:16:27. > :16:30.front of me, the crowd and the crowd on television, is part of the
:16:31. > :16:34.solution, so we are giving the Government back to the people. That
:16:35. > :16:38.emphasis is going to change American life, including American
:16:39. > :16:47.International relations. It doesn't moving the leak back -- it doesn't
:16:48. > :16:51.mean we are moving out of Nato, it simply means we will put our
:16:52. > :16:55.national interests first. There were echoes of Andrew Jackson's
:16:56. > :17:01.inauguration address of 1820. That night, the Jacksonians trashed the
:17:02. > :17:04.White House, but Mr Trump's people didn't do that, so there is a
:17:05. > :17:10.difference there. He also said something else in the address - that
:17:11. > :17:17.protectionism would lead to prosperity. I would suggest there is
:17:18. > :17:23.no evidence for that in the post-war world. He talked about protecting
:17:24. > :17:25.the American worker, American jobs, the American economy. I actually
:17:26. > :17:32.think that Donald Trump will not turn out to be a protectionist. If
:17:33. > :17:39.you read the heart of the deal... This is referring to two Republican
:17:40. > :17:48.senators who introduce massive tariffs in the Hoover
:17:49. > :17:52.administration. Exactly. If you read The Art Of The Deal, you will see
:17:53. > :17:55.how Donald Trump deals with individuals and countries. There is
:17:56. > :18:01.a lot of bluster, positioning, and I think you already see this in
:18:02. > :18:06.bringing jobs by the United States. Things are going to change. Let's
:18:07. > :18:13.also deal with this proposition. China is the biggest loser of this
:18:14. > :18:20.election result. Let me say this: The first time in American history
:18:21. > :18:28.and American president has set forth his view of the world, and it is a
:18:29. > :18:32.mercantile view of the world, who makes more money, who gets more
:18:33. > :18:36.trade, it doesn't look at the shared values, leadership and defends the
:18:37. > :18:39.world needs. The art of the deal has no application to America's
:18:40. > :18:44.leadership of the world, that's what we're learning. You can be a great
:18:45. > :18:49.businessman and make great real estate deals - whether he did not is
:18:50. > :18:54.debatable - but it has nothing to do with inspiring shared values from
:18:55. > :18:58.the West. You saying China may lose, because he may pressure them to
:18:59. > :19:04.reduce their trade deficit with the US. They may or may not. We may both
:19:05. > :19:08.lose. Right now, his Secretary of State has said, and I think he will
:19:09. > :19:12.walk this back when he is brief, that they will prevent the Chinese
:19:13. > :19:17.from entering these islands in the South China Sea. If they were to do
:19:18. > :19:21.that, it would be a blockade, and there would be a shooting war
:19:22. > :19:26.between the United States and China, so US - China relations are the most
:19:27. > :19:29.important bilateral relationship of the United States, and they don't
:19:30. > :19:33.lend themselves to the bluff and bluster that may have worked when
:19:34. > :19:39.you are trying to get a big building on second Ave in Manhattan. Is China
:19:40. > :19:55.the biggest loser? I think the Chinese have a lot to lose. Gigi and
:19:56. > :20:01.Ping was in Davos this week -- Xi Jin Ping was in Davos.
:20:02. > :20:07.Is Germany the second biggest loser in the sense that I understand he
:20:08. > :20:15.hasn't agreed time to see Angela Merkel yet, also that those close to
:20:16. > :20:17.him believe that Germany is guilty of currency manipulation by adopting
:20:18. > :20:22.a weak your row instead of the strong Deutschmark, and that that is
:20:23. > :20:27.why they are running a huge balance of payments surplus with the United
:20:28. > :20:33.States. American - German relations may not be great. There is a point
:20:34. > :20:36.of view throughout Europe. You only have to talk to the southern
:20:37. > :20:41.Europeans about this question. It seems like the euro has been aligned
:20:42. > :20:47.to benefit Germany. Joe Stiglitz, the famous left of centre Democrat
:20:48. > :20:54.economist, made the same case in a recent book. In this case, I think
:20:55. > :20:58.Germany will be put under the spotlight. Angela Merkel has shown
:20:59. > :21:03.herself to be the most respected and the most successful leader in
:21:04. > :21:07.Europe. We who care about the West, who care about the shared values of
:21:08. > :21:13.the West, should pray and hope that she is re-elected. This isn't about
:21:14. > :21:18.dollars and cents. We're living in a time whether Russian leader has
:21:19. > :21:23.another country in Europe and for some inexplicable reason, the
:21:24. > :21:26.American president, who can use his insult diplomacy on everyone,
:21:27. > :21:33.including Mrs Merkel, the only person he can't seem to find
:21:34. > :21:36.anything to criticise about is Mr Putin. There are things more
:21:37. > :21:40.important than the actual details of your currency. There are things like
:21:41. > :21:43.preventing another war in Europe, preventing a war between the Chinese
:21:44. > :21:50.and the US. You talk about the Trident missile all morning, nuclear
:21:51. > :21:56.deterrence is extremely important. It doesn't lend itself to the bluff
:21:57. > :21:59.and bluster of a real estate deal. I understand all that, but the fact we
:22:00. > :22:03.are even talking about these things shows the new world we are moving
:22:04. > :22:08.into. I'd like to get you both to react to this. This is a man that
:22:09. > :22:15.ended the Bush Dynasty, a man that beat the Clinton machine. In his
:22:16. > :22:18.inauguration, not only did he not reach out to the Democrats, he
:22:19. > :22:25.didn't even mention the Republicans. These are changed days for us. They
:22:26. > :22:28.are, and change can be good or disastrous. I'm worried that it's
:22:29. > :22:34.easy in the world of diplomacy and in them -- for the leadership of the
:22:35. > :22:39.United States to break relationships and ruin alliances. These are things
:22:40. > :22:46.that were carefully nurtured. George Schultz, the American Secretary of
:22:47. > :22:50.State under Reagan talked about gardening, the slow, careful
:22:51. > :22:55.creation of a place with bilateral relationships that were blossoming
:22:56. > :22:58.and flowering multilateral relationships that take decades to
:22:59. > :23:03.create, and he will throw them away in a matter of days. The final
:23:04. > :23:07.word... I work for George Schultz. He was a Marine who stood up
:23:08. > :23:12.America, defended America, who would be in favour of many of the things
:23:13. > :23:18.that Donald Trump and the tramp Administration... Give him a call.
:23:19. > :23:21.His top aide macs that I've spoken to are appalled by Mr Trump's
:23:22. > :23:30.abdication of leadership. He is going to our radically -- he's going
:23:31. > :23:35.to eradicate extremist Islam from the face of the year. Is that
:23:36. > :23:38.realistic? I know people in the national security realm have worked
:23:39. > :23:45.on a plan. They say they will have such a plan in some detail within 90
:23:46. > :23:50.days. Lets hope they succeed. We have run out of time. As a issues.
:23:51. > :23:54.Thank you, both. -- fascinating issues.
:23:55. > :23:57.So Theresa May promised a big speech on Brexit, and this week -
:23:58. > :23:59.perhaps against expectation - she delivered, trying to answer
:24:00. > :24:02.claims that the government didn't have a plan with an explicit
:24:03. > :24:04.wish-list of what she hopes to achieve in negotiations with the EU.
:24:05. > :24:07.To her allies it was ambitious, bold, optimistic -
:24:08. > :24:08.to her opponents it was full of contradictions
:24:09. > :24:12.Here's Adam again, with a reminder of the speech and how
:24:13. > :24:17.There are speeches, and there are speeches.
:24:18. > :24:21.Like Theresa May's 12 principles for a Brexit deal leading
:24:22. > :24:24.to the UK fully out of the EU but still friendly in terms
:24:25. > :24:28.This agreement should allow for the freest possible trade
:24:29. > :24:30.in goods and services between Britain and the EU's member states.
:24:31. > :24:36.It should give British companies the maximum
:24:37. > :24:39.operate within European markets and let European businesses do
:24:40. > :24:47.She also said no deal would be better than the wrong deal,
:24:48. > :25:03.We want to test what people think about what she's just said.
:25:04. > :25:05.Do we have any of our future negotiating
:25:06. > :25:10.As the European Parliament voted for its new
:25:11. > :25:17.president, its chief negotiator sounded off.
:25:18. > :25:19.Saying, OK, if our European counterparts don't accept
:25:20. > :25:23.it, we're going to make from Britain a sort
:25:24. > :25:25.of free zone or tax haven, I
:25:26. > :25:32.The Prime Minister of Malta, the country that's assumed the EU's
:25:33. > :25:34.rotating presidency, spoke in sorrow and a bit of anger.
:25:35. > :25:39.We want a fair deal for the United Kingdom, but
:25:40. > :25:49.that deal necessarily needs to be inferior to membership.
:25:50. > :25:51.Next, let's hear from some enthusiastic
:25:52. > :25:56.leavers, like, I don't know, the Daily Mail?
:25:57. > :26:00.The paper lapped it up with this adoring front page.
:26:01. > :26:04.For Brexiteers, it was all manna from heaven.
:26:05. > :26:06.I think today means we are a big step closer to becoming
:26:07. > :26:09.an independent country again, with control of our own laws,
:26:10. > :26:15.I was chuckling at some of it, to be honest, because
:26:16. > :26:19.There were various phrases there which I've used myself again and
:26:20. > :26:24.Do we have any of those so-called Remoaners?
:26:25. > :26:26.There will, at the end of this deal process,
:26:27. > :26:30.so politicians get to vote on the stitch-up, but
:26:31. > :26:33.We take the view as Liberal Democrats that
:26:34. > :26:35.if this process started with democracy last June,
:26:36. > :26:39.We trusted the people with departure, we must trust them
:26:40. > :26:45.Do we have anyone from Labour, or are you all
:26:46. > :26:47.watching it in a small room somewhere?
:26:48. > :26:55.Throughout the speech, there seemed to be an implied threat that
:26:56. > :26:58.somewhere along the line, if all her optimism of a deal
:26:59. > :27:00.with the European Union didn't work, we would move
:27:01. > :27:02.into a low-tax, corporate taxation, bargain-basement economy on the
:27:03. > :27:05.I think she needs to be a bit clearer about what
:27:06. > :27:13.The Labour leader suggested he'd tell
:27:14. > :27:16.his MPs to vote in favour of starting a Brexit process if
:27:17. > :27:18.Parliament was given the choice, sparking a mini pre-revolt among
:27:19. > :27:24.Finally, do we have anyone from big business here?
:27:25. > :27:33.Of course, your all in Davos at the World Economic
:27:34. > :27:43.Clarity, first of all, really codified what many of us have been
:27:44. > :27:45.anticipating since the referendum result,
:27:46. > :27:46.particularly around the
:27:47. > :27:50.I think what we've also seen today is the Government's
:27:51. > :27:53.willingness to put a bit of edge into the negotiating dynamic, and I
:27:54. > :27:58.Trade negotiations are negotiations, and you have to lay out, and you
:27:59. > :28:00.have to be pretty tough to get what you want.
:28:01. > :28:02.Although some business people on the slopes speculated
:28:03. > :28:04.about moving some of their operations out of Brexit Britain.
:28:05. > :28:23.We saw there the instant reaction of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn,
:28:24. > :28:25.but how will the party respond to the challenge posed by Brexit
:28:26. > :28:29.Well, I'm joined now by the Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott.
:28:30. > :28:38.People know that Ukip and the Tories are for Brexit. The Lib Dems are
:28:39. > :28:43.four remain. What is Labour for? For respecting the result of the
:28:44. > :28:47.referendum. It was a 72% turnout, very high for an election of that
:28:48. > :28:50.nature, and we believe you have to respect that result. You couldn't
:28:51. > :28:55.have a situation where people like Tim Farron are saying to people,
:28:56. > :28:58.millions of people, sorry, you got it wrong, we in London no better.
:28:59. > :29:06.However, how the Tories go forward from here has to be subject to
:29:07. > :29:11.parliamentary scrutiny. Is it Shadow Cabinet policy to vote for the
:29:12. > :29:14.triggering of Article 50? Our policy is not to block Article 50. That is
:29:15. > :29:21.what the leader was saying this morning. So are you for it? Our
:29:22. > :29:26.policy is not to block it. You are talking about voting for it. We
:29:27. > :29:32.don't know what the Supreme Court is going to say, and we don't know what
:29:33. > :29:35.legislation Government will bring forward, and we don't know what
:29:36. > :29:42.amendment we will move, but we're clear that we will not vote to block
:29:43. > :29:49.it. OK, so you won't bow to stop it, but you could abstain? No, what we
:29:50. > :29:54.will do... Either you vote for or against all you abstain. There are
:29:55. > :29:57.too many unanswered questions. For instance, the position of EU
:29:58. > :30:01.migrants working and living in this country. You may not get the answer
:30:02. > :30:06.to that before Article 50 comes before the Commons, so what would
:30:07. > :30:11.you do then? We are giving to amend it. We can only tell you exactly how
:30:12. > :30:14.we will amend it when we understand what sort of legislation the
:30:15. > :30:18.Government is putting forward, and in the course of moving those
:30:19. > :30:22.amendments, we will ask the questions that the people of Britain
:30:23. > :30:27.whether they voted to leave remain want answered.
:30:28. > :30:36.When you come to a collective view, will there be a three line whip? I
:30:37. > :30:40.can't tell you, because we have not seen the government 's legislation.
:30:41. > :30:47.But when you see it, you will come to a collective view. Many regard
:30:48. > :30:52.this as extremely important. Will there be a three line whip on
:30:53. > :30:57.Labour's collective view? Because it is important, we shouldn't get ahead
:30:58. > :31:01.of ourselves. When we see what the Supreme Court says, and crucially,
:31:02. > :31:06.when we see what the government position is, you will hear what the
:31:07. > :31:13.whipping is. Will shadow ministers be able to defy any three line whip
:31:14. > :31:18.on this? That is not normally the case. But they did on an early vote
:31:19. > :31:24.that the government introduced on Article 50. Those who voted against
:31:25. > :31:28.it are still there. In the Blair years, you certainly couldn't defy a
:31:29. > :31:34.three line whip. We will see what happens going forward. I remember
:31:35. > :31:38.when the Tories were hopelessly divided over the EU. All these
:31:39. > :31:45.Maastricht votes and an list arguments. Now it is Labour. Just
:31:46. > :31:57.another symptom of Mr Corbyn's poor leadership. Not at all. Two thirds
:31:58. > :32:02.voted to leave, a third to remain. We are seeking to bring the country
:32:03. > :32:07.and the party together. We will do that by pointing out how disastrous
:32:08. > :32:17.a Tory Brexit would be. Meanwhile, around 80 Labour MPs will defy a
:32:18. > :32:21.three line whip. It's too early to say that. Will you publish what you
:32:22. > :32:27.believe the negotiating goal should be? We are clear on it. We think
:32:28. > :32:33.that the economy, jobs and living standards should be the priority.
:32:34. > :32:38.What Theresa May is saying is that holding her party together is her
:32:39. > :32:45.priority. She is putting party above country. Does Labour think we should
:32:46. > :32:49.remain members of the single market? Ideally, in terms of jobs and the
:32:50. > :32:54.economy, of course. Ritt -ish business thinks that as well. Is
:32:55. > :32:59.Labour policy that we should remain a member of the single market?
:33:00. > :33:03.Labour leaves that jobs and the economy comes first, and if they
:33:04. > :33:10.come first, you would want to remain part of the single market. But to
:33:11. > :33:17.remain a member? Jobs and the economy comes first, and to do that,
:33:18. > :33:22.ideally, guess. So with that, comes free movement of people, the
:33:23. > :33:28.jurisdiction of the European, and a multi-million never shipped thief.
:33:29. > :33:34.Is Labour prepared to pay that? Money is neither here nor there.
:33:35. > :33:42.Because the Tories will be asked to pay a lot of money... The EU has
:33:43. > :33:50.made it clear that you cannot have... I am asking for Labour's
:33:51. > :33:55.position. Our position is rooted in the reality, and the reality is that
:33:56. > :33:59.you cannot have the benefits of the member of the European Union,
:34:00. > :34:02.including being a member of the single market, without
:34:03. > :34:06.responsibility, including free movement of people. Free movement,
:34:07. > :34:15.is remaining under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. Is
:34:16. > :34:20.that the Labour position? You've said that Labour wants to remain a
:34:21. > :34:24.member of the single market. That is the price tag that comes with it.
:34:25. > :34:30.Does Labour agree with paying that price tag? We are not pre-empting
:34:31. > :34:35.negotiation. Our goals are protect jobs and the British economy. Is it
:34:36. > :34:44.Labour's position that we remain a member of the customs union? Well,
:34:45. > :34:54.if we don't, I don't see how Theresa May can keep our promises and has
:34:55. > :35:03.unfettered access... You said Labour's position was clear. It is!
:35:04. > :35:09.It is clear that Theresa May... I am not asking about Theresa May. Is it
:35:10. > :35:15.Labour's position to remain a member of the customs union? It is Labour's
:35:16. > :35:19.position to do what is right for British industry. Depending on how
:35:20. > :35:24.the negotiations go, it may prove that coming out of the customs
:35:25. > :35:29.union, as Theresa May has indicated she wants to do, could prove
:35:30. > :35:35.catastrophic, and could actually destroy some of her promises. You do
:35:36. > :35:42.accept that if we are member of the customs union, we cannot do our own
:35:43. > :35:48.free trade deals? What free trade deals are you talking about? The
:35:49. > :35:53.ones that Labour might want to do in the future. First, we have to
:35:54. > :35:58.protect British jobs and British industries. If you are talking about
:35:59. > :36:02.free trade deals with Donald Trump, the danger is that Theresa May will
:36:03. > :36:09.get drawn into a free-trade deal with America that will open up the
:36:10. > :36:15.NHS to American corporate... The cards are in Theresa May's hands. If
:36:16. > :36:19.she takes us out of the single market, if she takes us out of the
:36:20. > :36:24.customs union, we will have to deal with that. How big a crisis for
:36:25. > :36:30.Jeremy Corbyn will be if Labour loses both by-elections in February.
:36:31. > :36:39.I don't believe we will lose both. But if he did? I am not anticipating
:36:40. > :36:43.that. Is Labour lost two seats in a midterm of a Tory government, would
:36:44. > :36:47.that be business as usual? I'm not prepared to see us lose those seats,
:36:48. > :36:51.so I will not talk about something that will not happen. Thank you.
:36:52. > :36:52.You're watching the Sunday Politics.
:36:53. > :36:54.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:36:55. > :36:58.Coming up here in 20 minutes, The Week Ahead,
:36:59. > :37:00.when we'll be talking to Business Minister Margot James
:37:01. > :37:03.about the government's new industrial strategy and that
:37:04. > :37:06.crucial Supreme Court ruling on Brexit.
:37:07. > :37:16.First, though, the Sunday Politics where you are.
:37:17. > :37:19.Welcome to the Sunday Politics in the Midlands, which voted
:37:20. > :37:26.Now Ukip's new leader is plotting a spectacular sequel,
:37:27. > :37:30.in the Labour seat vacated by Tristram Hunt.
:37:31. > :37:35.No less spectacular, our guests today are Jess Phillips -
:37:36. > :37:38.Outspoken Labour MP for Birmingham Yardley,
:37:39. > :37:41.and Philip Dunne - Conservative MP for Ludlow
:37:42. > :37:47.and Minister of State at the Health Department.
:37:48. > :37:53.Because if Labour thought they'd wrong-foot their opponents
:37:54. > :37:56.by triggering that Stoke Central by-election so soon after Tristram
:37:57. > :38:05.Hunt announced his resignation, they may not have bargained for Ukip
:38:06. > :38:06.being quite so quick off the mark.
:38:07. > :38:09.Ten would-be Ukip contenders stood aside so that their new leader
:38:10. > :38:12.Paul Nuttall could be unveiled, yesterday, as their choice for this
:38:13. > :38:16.hotly-contested election on the 23rd of February.
:38:17. > :38:20.Meanwhile the Shadow Health Secretary, John Ashworth,
:38:21. > :38:25.was also in the constituency getting the Labour message across.
:38:26. > :38:37.It certainly feels as if this campaign is well underway already.
:38:38. > :38:39.And the Ukip leader Paul Nuttall, fresh from that whirlwind selection
:38:40. > :38:41.process, joins us now from Central London.
:38:42. > :38:50.and minions. If you're taking a bit of a risk, aren't you, so soon into
:38:51. > :38:54.your leadership? If you lose you could be on the back foot before you
:38:55. > :38:57.started. When I took over the leadership back at the end of
:38:58. > :39:03.November I said I would lead from the front and I'm doing precisely
:39:04. > :39:10.that. We've been looking at the seat of Stoke-on-Trent Central for many
:39:11. > :39:15.months now. We know that it voted overwhelmingly for Brexit, nearly
:39:16. > :39:18.70%. We know them graphically it is fertile ground for Ukip and
:39:19. > :39:24.generally confident we can go in, put in a good performance, and who
:39:25. > :39:32.knows, they could have Ukip MP in February. How well do you know the
:39:33. > :39:37.place? Firstly, I lived for a short period of time in Shelton. I've been
:39:38. > :39:44.there many times speaking to the Ukip branch. I'm from Bootle, which
:39:45. > :39:48.is very similar to Stoke-on-Trent. It's a post-industrial town. I
:39:49. > :39:52.understand the exam anxieties people have been constituencies like these
:39:53. > :39:55.and will be going out, knocking on doors and talking about the issues
:39:56. > :39:59.that matter to working-class people, whether that is law and order,
:40:00. > :40:04.whether that is controlling immigration, whether that is putting
:40:05. > :40:08.British people to the top of the job market or indeed housing lists, and
:40:09. > :40:12.solving the problem within the NHS. I guarantee, with this new Labour
:40:13. > :40:16.leadership they have, which is very much focused on North London and the
:40:17. > :40:22.Islington set, talking about fair trade and climate change and what
:40:23. > :40:28.not, we will resonate with the people of Stoke far more than Labour
:40:29. > :40:32.well. Stoke is a place with a very strong sense of its own identity as
:40:33. > :40:38.indeed has Liverpool, so isn't there a point that a Scouser like yourself
:40:39. > :40:43.is not easy sell in Stoke? I think I'm an easier sell them the last two
:40:44. > :40:51.Labour MPs, public schoolboys from down south. It's easy to sell a
:40:52. > :40:58.working class Bootle boy in a working class can tip is
:40:59. > :41:04.constituency. We'll be running at big campaign, professionally run,
:41:05. > :41:09.and if we win perhaps we can go on and win seats all over the Midlands
:41:10. > :41:16.and the north of England. You are calling it Brexit Central but it's
:41:17. > :41:22.clear that Labour wanted to be NHS Central. Bearing in mind the local
:41:23. > :41:27.hospital in that area has had some of the longest trolley waits in
:41:28. > :41:29.Britain, you may say the NHS is running a stronger issue on the
:41:30. > :41:39.streets than Brexit. I think both are. I've just listened to Diane
:41:40. > :41:44.Abbott trying to set out Labour's position on Brexit and it seems they
:41:45. > :41:48.want to stay in the single market, which means not controlling our
:41:49. > :41:55.borders,... I agree the NHS is going to be a massive issue in this and
:41:56. > :42:00.Ukip's position is that they have never gone into any election calling
:42:01. > :42:04.for the privatisation of the NHS. We want more money put into it and we
:42:05. > :42:13.will get this money from the foreign aid budget which is now costing
:42:14. > :42:17.British people ?30 million. What the NHS needs is a quick cash injection
:42:18. > :42:23.and I would rather British taxpayers money be spent on the NHS than
:42:24. > :42:26.giving foreign aid to countries like India, China and Brazil who are
:42:27. > :42:31.richer than us. Isn't the real problem that what has been your
:42:32. > :42:37.selling point is no long unique to you. The Chew the Tories are just as
:42:38. > :42:40.much the party of Brexit now, and some of the things Theresa May have
:42:41. > :42:45.been saying over the last few days could equally have come from the
:42:46. > :42:49.lips of any number of Ukip politicians. If you dig into the
:42:50. > :42:53.detail of her speech she talks about a transitional period and a phasing,
:42:54. > :42:57.there is no end state on this. What I challenge her to do is to set a
:42:58. > :43:03.date when we will be out of the European Union and it will be keen.
:43:04. > :43:05.Also there is no call for immediate immigration control. Literally
:43:06. > :43:10.millions of people can come here between now and the end of Article
:43:11. > :43:14.50. We know with Theresa May from her time as Home Secretary, she has
:43:15. > :43:20.always been good at talking the talk, curtailing radical Islam, or
:43:21. > :43:27.getting immigration down, but she never walks the walk. Talk is cheap.
:43:28. > :43:31.If you want to vote for a politician who has always called for a clean
:43:32. > :43:35.Brexit, controlling our own borders, signing our own trade deals, vote
:43:36. > :43:41.Paul Nuttall! Thank you. So what is the mood in Stoke itself,
:43:42. > :43:44.more than six months after it recorded one of the UK's biggest
:43:45. > :43:46.Brexit votes? Tristram Hunt's resignation sets-up
:43:47. > :43:48.the first real test of public We've just heard from Ukip's
:43:49. > :43:54.candidate Paul Nuttall. But before the other contenders
:43:55. > :43:58.converge on Stoke Central, our Political Reporter Kathryn
:43:59. > :44:01.Stanczyszyn has been getting a taste So you start with a divided party
:44:02. > :44:15.with a shrinking majority, add some upcoming boundary changes,
:44:16. > :44:18.and throw in a bit of national The perfect ingredients
:44:19. > :44:25.for a cracking by-election. Tristram Hunt's surprise resignation
:44:26. > :44:28.from the Stoke-on-Trent Central seat has set the cat amongst
:44:29. > :44:31.the political pigeons - and caused But what does it mean
:44:32. > :44:36.for voters here? And my family's always
:44:37. > :44:39.been labour, so Like, what they talk about makes
:44:40. > :44:49.more sense for this area. But despite this being
:44:50. > :44:51.Labour heartland, At the last general election
:44:52. > :44:56.they significantly narrowed Labour's majority and pipped
:44:57. > :45:00.the Conservatives to second place. And this was one of the most
:45:01. > :45:04.pro-Brexit areas of the country. So, as we get ready to trigger
:45:05. > :45:07.Article 50, will those lingering Brexit is still the number
:45:08. > :45:12.one issue with voters. And of course Stoke-on-Trent -
:45:13. > :45:15.Brexit capital of It's still going to be a big issue -
:45:16. > :45:23.how we going to resolve it? What sort of Brexit
:45:24. > :45:25.are we going to have? These things are going to be
:45:26. > :45:28.key in the selection. You can't talk about this
:45:29. > :45:30.by-election though without throwing in another ingredient, the complex
:45:31. > :45:35.local political situation. The local council is
:45:36. > :45:41.run by a coalition - the City Independants,
:45:42. > :45:43.Ukip and the Conservatives - all of which will be
:45:44. > :45:45.fielding a candidate. in 2015 as some of its solid
:45:46. > :45:50.base went elsewhere. I'm a Conservative so
:45:51. > :45:57.I stay Conservative. They've done more for us than Labour
:45:58. > :46:00.have ever done for us. I'd say Ukip, really,
:46:01. > :46:04.if it was about immigration, because I don't think any other
:46:05. > :46:07.party will do anything about it. You're one of these people we keep
:46:08. > :46:12.hearing about - Labour heartland My dad would turn in
:46:13. > :46:17.his grave if he knew I Just the pathetic policies
:46:18. > :46:28.of the Labour Party, So all eyes are on politics
:46:29. > :46:34.in the Potteries. But just who will come
:46:35. > :46:40.up with the goods? Two other candidates
:46:41. > :46:44.are so far declared. For the Liberal Democrats,
:46:45. > :46:46.Dr Zulfiqar Ali, and for the Christian People's Alliance,
:46:47. > :46:50.Godfrey Davies. Labour will unveil theirs
:46:51. > :46:52.on Wednesday, with the Conservatives and the Greens also expected
:46:53. > :47:08.to name their choices we have tended to think of Stoke
:47:09. > :47:15.Central is the safest of Labour seats. It's been years for 60 years.
:47:16. > :47:19.But judging by what we've heard so far you're in for a real fight. I
:47:20. > :47:23.think the Labour Party is still the favourite to win according to the
:47:24. > :47:28.bookies but I think it would be wrong to think that we didn't have
:47:29. > :47:32.to really listened to the people daren't hear what they're saying.
:47:33. > :47:37.They're talking about infighting, they're saying the policies are
:47:38. > :47:41.pathetic... To not like infighting and then vote Ukip after they have
:47:42. > :47:49.punch-ups in the European Parliament seems like a strange choice. Those
:47:50. > :47:52.charges could be laid at the Labour Party, and I'd be lying if I said I
:47:53. > :47:55.wasn't the case. But I think the Labour Party are now just trying to
:47:56. > :48:02.get on with the job. And that looks like it means focusing on the health
:48:03. > :48:06.issue, and Stoke has been identified as one of the areas of key concern
:48:07. > :48:14.about trolley waits in any. That's a real vulnerability feel Parliament,
:48:15. > :48:19.your Government, your party,... Of course the appalling situation
:48:20. > :48:25.developed under Labour and revealed answers conservatives. It's an
:48:26. > :48:29.issue, were in the middle of winter which is a difficult time for the
:48:30. > :48:32.health service. But I don't think this is just about the health issue
:48:33. > :48:36.with this in action. I think the people of Stoke have to make a
:48:37. > :48:41.decision. Time has moved on significantly since the last
:48:42. > :48:44.election. We are now in a different environment. We have a Prime
:48:45. > :48:49.Minister who is determined to deliver the referendum result and
:48:50. > :48:57.the people of stroke -- Stoke have to do is decide if they want to be
:48:58. > :49:02.represented by someone closely linked to the Prime Minister or to
:49:03. > :49:13.Jeremy Corbyn. But more apparent as surely this wedge between user party
:49:14. > :49:18.that campaign to remain in and... Everything she said, as I said to
:49:19. > :49:33.Paul Nuttall, could have come from Ukip. And you on this issue. Paul
:49:34. > :49:37.establishment, elitist argument establishment, elitist argument
:49:38. > :49:42.which is funny given that he is the one in London right now. He stood
:49:43. > :49:46.for the Conservatives on one occasion. I believe his heart is
:49:47. > :49:54.really in it in Stoke! Believe it when I see it. The Labour Party has
:49:55. > :49:59.to go to Stoke, go to the voters and be really honest with them about our
:50:00. > :50:03.positions. Let me put to you a suggestion which is doing the rounds
:50:04. > :50:08.of Westminster. I suspect you'll deny it. The Tories will put in a
:50:09. > :50:15.token effort in Stoke and Ukip will put in a token effort in Copland as
:50:16. > :50:22.a sort of informal trade. I will deny it. There is no deal beneath
:50:23. > :50:25.them. We have two by-elections coming up there likely to be on the
:50:26. > :50:31.same day in February. There will be a big focus on these two seats. We
:50:32. > :50:36.are a close second in Copland. We have a powerful campaign to lead
:50:37. > :50:39.there. And we are only 33 votes behind Ukip in Stoke. We will be
:50:40. > :50:41.fighting hard for Conservative candidates in both seats.
:50:42. > :50:43.It's hardly surprising Stoke Central has Brexit Is written all over it.
:50:44. > :50:46.But after a week in which Theresa May signalled Britain's departure
:50:47. > :50:49.from Europe's single market, business people right
:50:50. > :50:53.across the economic heartlands of Britain are thinking
:50:54. > :50:56.about what this means for them - from the executive boardroom
:50:57. > :50:59.to the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker.
:51:00. > :51:02.The butcher was among the people Joanne Writtle
:51:03. > :51:08."Deal or no deal" - the Prime Minister couldn't have
:51:09. > :51:11.been clearer in her keynote speech on Tuesday.
:51:12. > :51:14.Brexit means exit, not just from the EU but
:51:15. > :51:21.Associate membership of the European Union,
:51:22. > :51:24.or anything that leaves us half-in half-out.
:51:25. > :51:28.I want to be clear - what I am proposing
:51:29. > :51:32.cannot mean membership of the single market.
:51:33. > :51:35.Bridgnorth butchers Mike and Sarah Pearce voted Leave,
:51:36. > :51:40.I want this United Kingdom to emerge from this period
:51:41. > :51:47.of change stronger, Sarah, more united.
:51:48. > :51:48.of change stronger, fairer, more united.
:51:49. > :51:52.So we will take back control of our laws
:51:53. > :51:53.and bring an end to the
:51:54. > :51:55.jurisdiction of the European court of Justice in Britain.
:51:56. > :51:57.She's going for what the country wants, then.
:51:58. > :52:02.At on the streets there was plenty of support for the PM.
:52:03. > :52:07.I think we should go hard, and stay out altogether.
:52:08. > :52:12.In the Commons, concerns about the economic
:52:13. > :52:18.The Prime Minister set out a plan to leave the European Union
:52:19. > :52:20.but she did not set out plan to keep anything
:52:21. > :52:24.like the current access to our biggest single market for jobs,
:52:25. > :52:29.So far the economic indicators are generally positive.
:52:30. > :52:32.The weak pound is helping Midlands exporters and
:52:33. > :52:38.The question now is could a hard Brexit translate into a
:52:39. > :52:49.And with that thought in mind, we the region's economy?
:52:50. > :52:54.And with that thought in mind, we are hearing serious misgivings,
:52:55. > :53:01.particularly from the automotive sector, about what a hard Brexit 's
:53:02. > :53:05.departure could mean. I am delighted that your reporter was in my
:53:06. > :53:13.constituency last week. It has just won Great Britain's high street
:53:14. > :53:20.market town. I'm making a serious point... I think what the Prime
:53:21. > :53:23.Minister laid out on Tuesday was a serious, pragmatic approach to did
:53:24. > :53:28.taking the UK out of the EU. What she was talking about in terms of
:53:29. > :53:32.business relationships, which she and persist last week, which we need
:53:33. > :53:36.to have a free take trade agreement with the EU and that will form part
:53:37. > :53:41.part. So when we come out of the part. So when we come out of the
:53:42. > :53:44.single market we do the best deal for British industry and services to
:53:45. > :53:51.Europe. I've been talking to the Europe. I've been talking to the
:53:52. > :54:01.regional direction of the employers's organisation. There are
:54:02. > :54:04.real concerns about controls on imports, customs, technical delays,
:54:05. > :54:09.which are worrying to business. That is why we have to have a serious the
:54:10. > :54:17.go see Asian. It will be in the European nations' interest to
:54:18. > :54:20.negotiate with Britain. They are negotiating with countries all over
:54:21. > :54:25.the world which have less significant relationships with you
:54:26. > :54:31.Europe. It is in their interests to do a deal with Britain. It is in
:54:32. > :54:38.Britain's interests to do a deal with all sorts of places. As you see
:54:39. > :54:44.the economic risks to the country? I am very worried about the potential
:54:45. > :54:51.that we are going to, hilariously, create more pure bureaucracy and red
:54:52. > :54:57.EU. In Stoke, 50% of ceramics go to EU. In Stoke, 50% of ceramics go to
:54:58. > :55:04.the EU. But we cannot harvest tariffs lessening regulations on
:55:05. > :55:07.things like Chinese dumping meaning in the Midlands businesses start to
:55:08. > :55:14.struggle. Whilst Theresa May made some very clear sound bites, what is
:55:15. > :55:20.not clear is some of the details about exactly what it will mean to
:55:21. > :55:23.the industries here. So you want more clarity still? Clarity is
:55:24. > :55:28.important, and that was the first point in her 12 objectives. We have
:55:29. > :55:33.just heard Diane Abbott being as clear as mud on their position. In
:55:34. > :55:37.contrast Theresa May has a vision for Britain's place in the world, a
:55:38. > :55:40.global vision for British industry and we will hear more about the
:55:41. > :55:42.industrial strategy next week. Thank you both.
:55:43. > :55:44.Let's get our round-up now of the other political developments
:55:45. > :55:46.making the news here over the past week.
:55:47. > :55:52.60 Seconds is brought to us today by Sarah Bishop.
:55:53. > :55:55.Fraud allegations against the former deputy leader
:55:56. > :55:59.of Sandwell Council have been referred to West Midlands Police.
:56:00. > :56:02.It follows a council investigation into the allocation of council
:56:03. > :56:06.houses which "seemed to benefit" members of Councillor Mahboob
:56:07. > :56:12.Around 300 people joined a protest against cuts to disability services,
:56:13. > :56:18.Coventry Council has scrapped a third of its bus lanes.
:56:19. > :56:21.They hope it will cut pollution and congestion on the city's roads.
:56:22. > :56:25.Shrewsbury and Telford Hospitals Trust is looking for a new sandwich
:56:26. > :56:28.supplier after the old one refused a request from health bosses
:56:29. > :56:33.And Labour's Sion Simon launched his campaign to become
:56:34. > :56:37.West Midands Mayor by calling for an end to the Barnett Formula,
:56:38. > :56:41.which he says short-changes the English regions.
:56:42. > :56:44.It's not fair that they should have better hospitals and better schools
:56:45. > :56:47.than us even though we pay the same tax.
:56:48. > :56:51.I just want our fair share of the national pie - a fair crack
:56:52. > :57:00."They", in this case, being the Scots and the Welsh,
:57:01. > :57:03.who get significantly more per head of the population under the public
:57:04. > :57:06.spending formula that's been used by successive Governments
:57:07. > :57:13.The other candidates so far declared are James Burn for the Greens,
:57:14. > :57:17.Beverley Neilsen for the Liberal Democrats,
:57:18. > :57:23.and Andy Street for the Conservatives.
:57:24. > :57:33.If the old chestnut, to make, as his keynote message. That successive
:57:34. > :57:36.governments have shown not the slightest interest in changing this
:57:37. > :57:43.so-called Barnett Formula. I think that Thorn the thing he is getting a
:57:44. > :57:47.trust is the idea of England, and ASBOs there's an element of
:57:48. > :57:52.patriotism, in fighting to make sure we get our fair share. Birmingham in
:57:53. > :57:56.the West Midlands have been decimated in a variety of formulas.
:57:57. > :58:06.Our schools funding is about to plummet in Birmingham. 10 million --
:58:07. > :58:10.tens of millions will be lost. It can't be right that per head of
:58:11. > :58:18.population in Scotland they get ten and a half thousand. In the Midlands
:58:19. > :58:21.a thousand 750. Especially when we have a larger population... It's
:58:22. > :58:27.absolutely bizarre. Here we have someone standing to become mayor of
:58:28. > :58:29.the West Midlands who is talking more about what he cannot do for
:58:30. > :58:36.Scotland in what he can do for Birmingham. What the wide West
:58:37. > :58:40.Midlands area needs is to get behind the West Midlands and the end. We
:58:41. > :58:46.need a who can deliver on improving the lot of people living in the West
:58:47. > :58:50.Midlands area. What about kids in school? And not attacking Scotland.
:58:51. > :58:56.What is he saying about the fact that in my constituency alone,
:58:57. > :59:04.millions of pounds is being taken out... What is he saying about money
:59:05. > :59:11.taken from schools? West Midlands MP whose constituency was in the bottom
:59:12. > :59:15.seven you get hundreds of pounds more for every child in your school
:59:16. > :59:19.divided from the mine. There needs to be better equity in delivering
:59:20. > :59:29.school funding. A final quick thought from you. He described your
:59:30. > :59:33.candidate is a man of shining city centres who doesn't know that much
:59:34. > :59:37.about... He's an outstanding character. He lives he knows
:59:38. > :59:38.Birmingham very well and has lived if the years. And the web West
:59:39. > :59:42.Midlands. Thank you very much. My thanks to Jess Phillips
:59:43. > :59:44.and Philip Dunne. Finally from me, we keep
:59:45. > :59:46.hearing about it, "Midlands Engine" this.
:59:47. > :59:48."Midlands Engine" that. Warwick and Leamington's
:59:49. > :59:51.Conservative MP Chris White opens a debate on Tuesday,
:59:52. > :59:56.arguing that regional devolution "can give the Midlands
:59:57. > :59:58.the resources for businesses to compete internationally,
:59:59. > :00:01.and deliver jobs and security have to do this. Thank you to you
:00:02. > :00:12.both. What exactly is the government's
:00:13. > :00:22.industrial strategy? Will ministers lose their supreme
:00:23. > :00:26.court battle over Brexit, and, Well, tomorrow Theresa May
:00:27. > :00:38.is launching the government's industrial strategy -
:00:39. > :00:41.and to talk about that we're joined by the Business Minister,
:00:42. > :00:53.Margot James - welcome to the show. When you look at what has already
:00:54. > :01:00.been released in advance of the Prime Minister's statement, it was
:01:01. > :01:04.embargoed for last night, it's not really an industrial strategy, it's
:01:05. > :01:07.just another skills strategy, of which we have had about six since
:01:08. > :01:15.the war, and our skills training is among the worst in Western Europe?
:01:16. > :01:20.There will be plenty more to be announced tomorrow in what is really
:01:21. > :01:23.a discussion document in the preparation of an industrial
:01:24. > :01:30.strategy which we intend to launch properly later in the year. Let's
:01:31. > :01:38.look at skills. You are allocating 117 of funding to establish
:01:39. > :01:42.institutes of technology. How many? The exact number is to be agreed,
:01:43. > :01:47.but the spend is there, and it will be on top of what we are doing to
:01:48. > :01:51.the university, technical colleges... How many were lit bio
:01:52. > :01:57.create? We don't know exactly, but we want to put them in areas where
:01:58. > :02:04.young people are performing under the national average. But if you
:02:05. > :02:08.don't know how many, what is the basis of 170 million? That is the
:02:09. > :02:11.amount the Treasury have released. The something that is very
:02:12. > :02:17.important, we are agreed we need to devote more resources to vocational
:02:18. > :02:24.training and get it on a par with academic qualifications. I looked on
:02:25. > :02:28.the website of my old university, the University of Glasgow, the
:02:29. > :02:34.Russell group universities. Its spending budget every year is over
:02:35. > :02:41.600 million. That's one University. And yet you have a mere 170 million
:02:42. > :02:47.foreign unspecified number of institutes of technology. It hasn't
:02:48. > :02:53.got equality with the academics? You have to remember that just as you
:02:54. > :02:55.have quoted figures from Glasgow University there are further
:02:56. > :03:03.education colleges all over the country. The government is already
:03:04. > :03:10.spending on 16 to 19-year-olds. But also, we are going to be adding...
:03:11. > :03:16.This is new money that is all to the good, because we are already
:03:17. > :03:19.spending a lot. We have already created 2 million more apprentices
:03:20. > :03:24.since 2010. That many are not in what we would call the stem skills,
:03:25. > :03:30.and a lot come nowhere near what the Dutch, Germans and Austrians would
:03:31. > :03:35.have. I'm not clear how another 170 million would do. You said it is
:03:36. > :03:39.more than skills. In what way is this industrial strategy different
:03:40. > :03:49.from what Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne did before? It's different because
:03:50. > :03:51.it is involving every single government department, and bringing
:03:52. > :03:54.together everything that government does in a bid to make Britain more
:03:55. > :04:01.competitive as it disengages from the European Union. That is what the
:04:02. > :04:04.last Labour government did. They will much more targeted
:04:05. > :04:09.interventions. Under the Labour government, the auto industry got
:04:10. > :04:14.some benefit. A few more sectors were broached under the coalition
:04:15. > :04:18.government. This is all about communities all over the country,
:04:19. > :04:24.some of whom have fallen behind in terms of wage growth and good jobs.
:04:25. > :04:31.The Prime Minister has already announced 2 billion as a research
:04:32. > :04:33.and development priority in specific technologies, robotics, artificial
:04:34. > :04:40.intelligence, medical technology, satellites... So you are doing what
:04:41. > :04:45.has been done before. There is nothing new about this. Wait until
:04:46. > :04:49.tomorrow, because there will be some new strands emerging. It is the
:04:50. > :04:54.beginning of the dialogue with industry and with workers, and the
:04:55. > :04:58.responses will be invited up until April. That will inform a wider
:04:59. > :05:05.strategy that goes beyond skills. I have moved on to beyond them. I'm
:05:06. > :05:10.slightly puzzled as to how the government knows where to invest in
:05:11. > :05:16.robotics, when it can't even provide the NHS with a decent IT system.
:05:17. > :05:19.Discuss. I have to say I find it bizarre that the government is
:05:20. > :05:24.making an announcement about an amount of money and don't know where
:05:25. > :05:30.it's going. This is typical of all governments over all political
:05:31. > :05:35.shoes, which is total disregard for technical education, so different
:05:36. > :05:42.from Germany, who actually invest in the technological side. Germany has
:05:43. > :05:49.a long history. We want to emulate some of the best of what German
:05:50. > :05:53.companies do. Siemens sponsor primary schools, for example. We
:05:54. > :05:59.want to get a dialogue on with business. We don't want to decide
:06:00. > :06:05.where this money is going. By the way, it was 4.7 billion that the
:06:06. > :06:09.government has agreed to invest in science and research, which is the
:06:10. > :06:13.most significant increase in decades. Can you remind us what
:06:14. > :06:16.happened in Northern Ireland, when the government invested money in
:06:17. > :06:21.state-of-the-art technology for energy? No one needs to be reminded
:06:22. > :06:29.of that, and that is not what we are doing. We are inviting business and
:06:30. > :06:35.industry to advise where that money is best spent. That's very different
:06:36. > :06:38.from government deciding that a particular technology is for the
:06:39. > :06:45.future. The government's chief scientific adviser has determined
:06:46. > :06:50.that we will invest a huge amount in battery technology, which should
:06:51. > :06:57.benefit the electric car industry, and... This is taxpayers' money. Who
:06:58. > :07:01.gets it? Ultimately, business will get it, but often only when there is
:07:02. > :07:11.a considerable amount of private sector finance also drawn in. But
:07:12. > :07:15.who is held to account? Various government departments at local
:07:16. > :07:20.authorities will hold this list to account. A lot of it is about
:07:21. > :07:26.releasing private capital as well. Thank you very much. This week, the
:07:27. > :07:33.Supreme Court, I think we know the ruling is coming on Tuesday. And the
:07:34. > :07:38.expectation is that the judges will say Parliament will have to vote to
:07:39. > :07:42.trigger. Is this all much ado about nothing? Parliament will vote to
:07:43. > :07:46.trigger, and the government will win in the Lords and the Commons by
:07:47. > :07:51.substantial majorities, and it will be triggered? Completely. We've
:07:52. > :07:55.known that. Parliament is voted. Everyone is pretty confident that
:07:56. > :08:00.the Supreme Court will uphold the High Court's decision and say it has
:08:01. > :08:08.to go to MPs. There will be a bit of toing and froing among MPs on
:08:09. > :08:13.amendments. You heard Diane Abbott's slightly car crash interview there.
:08:14. > :08:21.The Lib Dems may throw something in, but we will trigger Article 50 by
:08:22. > :08:24.the end of March. If it also says that the roll of Edinburgh, Cardiff
:08:25. > :08:29.and Belfast should be picked up, that could complicate matters.
:08:30. > :08:34.Absolutely. That could delay the planned triggering of Article 50
:08:35. > :08:38.before the end of March. Not what they say about the Westminster
:08:39. > :08:43.Parliament, because it is clear that it was. I never understood the
:08:44. > :08:48.furore about that original judgment, because every MP made it clear they
:08:49. > :08:52.wouldn't block it. Even though Diane Abbott was evasive on several
:08:53. > :08:58.fronts, she said they wouldn't block it. You are right, if they give a
:08:59. > :09:03.vote, or give some authorisation for the Scottish Parliament and other
:09:04. > :09:06.devolved assemblies, that might delay the whole sequence. That is
:09:07. > :09:13.the only significant thing to watch out for. Watch out on Tuesday. Mrs
:09:14. > :09:19.May goes to Washington. It will be another movie in the making! I would
:09:20. > :09:23.suggest that she has a tricky line to follow. She has got to be seen to
:09:24. > :09:28.be taking advantage of the fact that there is a very pro-British,
:09:29. > :09:33.pro-Brexit president in the Oval Office, who I am told is prepared to
:09:34. > :09:38.expend political capital on this. But on the other hand, to make sure
:09:39. > :09:49.that she is not what we used to call Mr Blair, George Bush's poodle. It
:09:50. > :09:53.is very difficult, and who would not want to be a fly on the wall in that
:09:54. > :09:58.meeting! I can't think of anyone in the world who would despise Mr Trump
:09:59. > :10:02.more than Mrs May, and for him, he dislikes any woman who does not look
:10:03. > :10:12.like a supermodel, no disrespected Mrs May. Most of it is actually
:10:13. > :10:17.anti-EU, and I think we should capitalise it. Let's get the Queen
:10:18. > :10:25.to earn her money, roll out the red carpet, invite him to dinner, spend
:10:26. > :10:29.the night, what ever we need... Trump at Balmoral! Here is the
:10:30. > :10:33.issue, because the agenda is, as we heard from Ted Malloch earlier, that
:10:34. > :10:38.this is not an administration that has much time for the EU, EU
:10:39. > :10:43.integration or Germany. I think Germany will be the second biggest
:10:44. > :10:48.loser to begin with. They will not even give a date for Angela Merkel
:10:49. > :10:56.to meet the president. This is an opportunity for Mrs May... It is a
:10:57. > :11:05.huge. It could sideline talks of the punishment beating from Germany. The
:11:06. > :11:11.Trump presidency has completely changed the field on Brexit. Along
:11:12. > :11:15.came Donald Trump, and Theresa May has this incredible opportunity
:11:16. > :11:20.here. Not of her making, but she has played her cards well. To an
:11:21. > :11:26.officially be the EU emissary to Washington, to get some sort of
:11:27. > :11:30.broker going. That gives us huge extra leveraged in the Brexit
:11:31. > :11:35.negotiations. People around the world think Germany as a currency
:11:36. > :11:39.manipulator, that it is benefiting from an underpriced euro, hence the
:11:40. > :11:43.huge surplus it runs of America, and they think it is disgraceful that a
:11:44. > :11:49.country that runs a massive budget surplus spends only 1.2% of its GDP
:11:50. > :11:55.on defence, and America runs a massive deficit and needs to spend a
:11:56. > :12:01.lot more. He's going for Germany. And what a massive shift. I think
:12:02. > :12:05.Obama was quite open, in a farewell interview, that he felt closer to
:12:06. > :12:12.Merkel than any other European leader. And Jamie kind of reflected
:12:13. > :12:17.that in our discussion. Yes, that's very interesting discussion. I think
:12:18. > :12:22.she was the last person he spoke to in the White House, Obama. And now
:12:23. > :12:28.you are getting the onslaught from Trump. This Thatcher- Reagan imagery
:12:29. > :12:33.is dangerous, though. Blair was hypnotised by it and was too scared
:12:34. > :12:38.to criticise Bush, because he wanted to be seen in that light, and we
:12:39. > :12:42.know where that led. Cameron similarly with Obama, which
:12:43. > :12:48.presented him with problems, as Obama didn't regard him as his
:12:49. > :12:53.number one pin up in Europe. I would put a note of caution in there about
:12:54. > :12:59.the Thatcher - Reagan parallel. Everything Trump is doing now is
:13:00. > :13:03.different from before, so Mrs May should not have any of these
:13:04. > :13:08.previous relationships in her mind. That is not entirely true. Donald
:13:09. > :13:16.Trump aches to be the new Ronald Reagan. He may be impeached first!
:13:17. > :13:18.He sees her as the new Margaret Thatcher, and that may her leveraged
:13:19. > :13:26.with him. Thank you. We'll be back here at the same time
:13:27. > :13:31.next week, and you can catch up on all the latest political news
:13:32. > :13:33.on the Daily Politics, In the meantime, remember -
:13:34. > :13:36.if it's Sunday, It's just pain,
:13:37. > :14:15.but it doesn't feel like pain, it feels much more violent,
:14:16. > :14:19.dark and exciting.