:00:37. > :00:40.It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:41. > :00:44.Theresa May unveils plans to build many more affordable homes
:00:45. > :00:46.in England, but with no price tag, timetable or building targets -
:00:47. > :00:53.Labour takes aim at the City with what it calls a Robin Hood Tax
:00:54. > :00:55.to fund public services, but will traders just
:00:56. > :00:59.Don't look at the polls - Jeremy Corbyn, at least,
:01:00. > :01:02.insists he can win this election - so which way will
:01:03. > :01:05.We'll hear from a focus group in Leeds.
:01:06. > :01:07.And in the Midlands: Two general elections
:01:08. > :01:10.It's no laughing matter keeping people interested
:01:11. > :01:15.We'll keep you interested in half an hour.
:01:16. > :01:17.and here, what the parties are saying about tackling the air
:01:18. > :01:25.pollution problem in London. And with me, our own scientifically
:01:26. > :01:29.selected focus group of political pundits -
:01:30. > :01:31.they're not so much undecided as clueless -
:01:32. > :01:33.Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott They'll be tweeting
:01:34. > :01:40.throughout the programme. So, we've got two new
:01:41. > :01:42.policies this morning. Labour say they will introduce
:01:43. > :01:44.a financial transaction tax if they win the general election
:01:45. > :01:47.and what they're calling "the biggest crackdown on tax
:01:48. > :01:49.avoidance in the country's history". The Conservatives say they'll work
:01:50. > :01:52.with local authorities in England to build council houses
:01:53. > :01:54.with the right to buy. Theresa May says the policy
:01:55. > :01:56."will help thousands of people get on the first rung
:01:57. > :02:09.of the housing ladder". Steve, what do you make of them? I
:02:10. > :02:13.have been conditioned after doing tax and spend debates in
:02:14. > :02:17.pre-election periods for many decades to treat policy is not as
:02:18. > :02:22.literal but as arguments. In other words if you look back to 2015 the
:02:23. > :02:26.Tory plan to wipe out the deficit was never going to happen and yet it
:02:27. > :02:30.framed and large event. In that sense the Robin Hood tax is a
:02:31. > :02:35.sensible move for Labour to make at this point because it is part of a
:02:36. > :02:38.narrative of reconfiguring taxation to be fair. Treating it as an
:02:39. > :02:46.argument rather than something that would happen in day one of Labour
:02:47. > :02:48.government is sensible. In terms of building houses Theresa May said
:02:49. > :02:51.right from the beginning when she was in Number Ten that there is a
:02:52. > :02:56.housing deficit in this country rather than the economic deficit
:02:57. > :03:00.George Osborne was focusing on, and this is an example of trying to get
:03:01. > :03:04.house-building going. It seems entirely sensible, not sure how it
:03:05. > :03:09.works with right to buy but again as framing of a 90 minute it makes
:03:10. > :03:17.sense. I disagree with Steve on one front which is how sensible Theresa
:03:18. > :03:21.May's policy is on the housing announcement. I think more broadly
:03:22. > :03:25.these two announcements have something in common which is that
:03:26. > :03:31.over the next 24 hours both will probably unravel in different ways.
:03:32. > :03:35.Ye of little faith! The Mayor of London has already said he doesn't
:03:36. > :03:41.agree with this, and when people see the actual impact of what looks like
:03:42. > :03:46.a populist tax will very potentially affect people's pensions, it might
:03:47. > :03:50.become a lot less popular. On the Tory housing plans, I think it is
:03:51. > :03:55.difficult to imagine how they are going to implement this huge, what
:03:56. > :04:01.looks like a huge land and property grab. Through compulsory purchase
:04:02. > :04:05.orders, which are not a simple instrument. They say they will
:04:06. > :04:08.change the law but really the idea of paying people below the market
:04:09. > :04:13.value for their assets is not something I can see sitting easily
:04:14. > :04:20.with Tory backbenchers or the Tories in the House of Lords. Tom. Both
:04:21. > :04:24.would appear superficially to be appealing to traditional left and
:04:25. > :04:31.traditional right bases. What is more Tory than right to buy, then
:04:32. > :04:39.councils sell on these houses, and Labour slapping a massive tax on the
:04:40. > :04:42.city. The Tories' plan, I would say look a bit deeper and all of the
:04:43. > :04:46.Tory narrative from the last six years which hasn't worked well is
:04:47. > :04:50.talking about the private sector increasing supply in the market. Now
:04:51. > :04:58.Mrs May is talking about the role for the state after all so this is
:04:59. > :05:02.the shift creeping in. On the Labour transaction tax, one of the most
:05:03. > :05:09.interesting things I heard in days was from Paul Mason, former BBC
:05:10. > :05:13.correspondent, now a cog in Easter extreme. On Newsnight he said don't
:05:14. > :05:17.worry about whether the Labour manifesto will add up, I'm promising
:05:18. > :05:24.it will, the bigger Tory attack line should be what on earth will be the
:05:25. > :05:29.macroeconomic effect of taking so much tax out of the system. Very
:05:30. > :05:32.well, we shall see. At least we have some policies to talk about.
:05:33. > :05:34.Now, on Tuesday Labour will launch its manifesto.
:05:35. > :05:37.But we've already got a pretty good idea of what's in it -
:05:38. > :05:40.that's because most of its contents were leaked to the media
:05:41. > :05:48.Labour has a variety of spending pledges including an extra
:05:49. > :05:51.?6 billion a year for the NHS, an additional ?8 billion for social
:05:52. > :05:53.care over the lifetime of the next parliament,
:05:54. > :05:55.as well as a ?250 billion in infrastructure over
:05:56. > :06:03.The party will support the renewal of the Trident submarine system,
:06:04. > :06:04.although any Prime Minister should be extremely cautious
:06:05. > :06:07.about its use, and the party will hold a strategic defence
:06:08. > :06:10.and security review immediately after the election.
:06:11. > :06:12.In terms of immigration, Labour will seek "reasonable
:06:13. > :06:15.management of migration", but it will not make "false
:06:16. > :06:21.Elsewhere, university tuition fees will be abolished,
:06:22. > :06:23.and the public sector pay cap, which limits pay rises
:06:24. > :06:27.for public sector workers to 1%, will be scrapped.
:06:28. > :06:30.The party also aims to renationalise the railways, the Royal Mail
:06:31. > :06:37.and the National Grid, as well as creating at least one
:06:38. > :06:42.A senior Labour backbencher described it to the Sunday Politics
:06:43. > :06:45.as a manifesto for a leadership who don't "give a toss
:06:46. > :06:47.about the wider public", and several other Labour candidates
:06:48. > :06:49.told us they thought it had been deliberately
:06:50. > :06:53.leaked by the leadership, with one suggesting
:06:54. > :06:55.the leak was intended to "bounce the National Executive"
:06:56. > :06:59.And we're joined now from Salford by the Shadow Business Secretary,
:07:00. > :07:07.Welcome to the programme. The draft manifesto proposed to renationalise
:07:08. > :07:12.the number of industry. You will wait for the franchises to run out
:07:13. > :07:16.rather than buy them out at the moment so can you confirm the
:07:17. > :07:20.railways will not be wholly nationalised until 2030, after three
:07:21. > :07:27.Labour governments, and Jeremy Corbyn will be 80? I'm not going to
:07:28. > :07:33.comment on leaks, you will just have to be patient and wait to see what
:07:34. > :07:37.is in our manifesto. But you have already announced you will
:07:38. > :07:42.nationalise the railways, so tell me about it. We have discussed taking
:07:43. > :07:46.the franchises into public ownership as they expire, however the detail
:07:47. > :07:51.will be set out in the manifesto so I'm not prepared to go into detail
:07:52. > :07:55.until that policy is formally laid out on Tuesday. That doesn't sound
:07:56. > :08:02.very hopeful but let's carry on. You will also nationalise the National
:08:03. > :08:07.Grid, it has a market capitalisation of ?40 billion, why do you want to
:08:08. > :08:12.nationalise that? Again, I'm not going to speculate on leaks, you
:08:13. > :08:18.will just have to be patient. But you said you will nationalise the
:08:19. > :08:22.National Grid so tell's Y. The leaks have suggested but you will just
:08:23. > :08:26.have to wait and see what the final manifesto states on that one. So is
:08:27. > :08:31.it a waste of time me asking you how you will pay for something that
:08:32. > :08:37.costs 40 billion? Be patient, just couple of days to go, but what I
:08:38. > :08:41.would say is there is growing pressure from the public to reform
:08:42. > :08:45.the utilities sector. The Competition and Markets Authority
:08:46. > :08:50.stated in 2015 that bill payers were paying over till debt -- ?2 billion
:08:51. > :08:56.in excess of what they should be paying so there is a clear need for
:08:57. > :09:00.reform. The bills we get are from the energy companies, you are not
:09:01. > :09:03.going to nationalise them, you are going to nationalise the
:09:04. > :09:09.distribution company and I wondered what is the case for nationalising
:09:10. > :09:13.the distribution company? As I said, our full plans will be set out on
:09:14. > :09:17.Tuesday. In relation to the big six energy companies, we know in recent
:09:18. > :09:24.years they have been overcharging customers... There's no point in
:09:25. > :09:30.answering questions I am not asking. I am asking what is the case for
:09:31. > :09:33.nationalising the National Grid? There is a case for reforming the
:09:34. > :09:38.energy sector as a whole and that looks at the activities of the big
:09:39. > :09:43.six companies and it will look at other aspects too. You will have to
:09:44. > :09:49.be patient and wait until Tuesday. What about the Royal Mail? Again,
:09:50. > :09:54.you will have to wait until Tuesday. Why can't you just be honest with
:09:55. > :10:01.the British voter? We know you are going to do this and you have a duty
:10:02. > :10:07.to explain. I'm not even arguing whether it is right or wrong. The
:10:08. > :10:11.Royal Mail was sold off and we know it was sold under value and British
:10:12. > :10:15.taxpayers have a reason to feel aggrieved about that. There is a
:10:16. > :10:19.long-term strategy that would ensure the Royal Mail was classified as a
:10:20. > :10:25.key piece of infrastructure but the details of that will be set out in
:10:26. > :10:27.our manifesto because we want to ensure businesses and households
:10:28. > :10:33.ensure the best quality of service when it comes to their postal
:10:34. > :10:37.providers. You plan to borrow an extra 25 billion per year, John
:10:38. > :10:42.McDonnell has already announced this, on public investment, on top
:10:43. > :10:47.of the around 50 billion already being planned for investment. You
:10:48. > :10:54.will borrow it all so that means, if you can confirm, that many years
:10:55. > :11:01.after the crash by 2021, Labour government would still be borrowing
:11:02. > :11:07.75 billion a year. Is that correct? We have set out ?250 billion of
:11:08. > :11:11.capital investment, and ?250 billion for a national investment bank. Our
:11:12. > :11:15.financial and fiscal rules dictate we will leave the Government in a
:11:16. > :11:18.state of less debt than we found it at the start of the parliament so we
:11:19. > :11:25.won't increase the national debt at the end of our Parliamentary term.
:11:26. > :11:29.How can you do that if by 2021 you will still be borrowing around 75
:11:30. > :11:36.billion a year, which is more than we borrow at the moment? The 500
:11:37. > :11:40.billion figure is set out over a period of ten years, it's a figure
:11:41. > :11:43.that has been suggested by Peter Helm from Oxford University as a
:11:44. > :11:48.figure that is necessary to bring us in line with other industrial
:11:49. > :11:56.competitors. Similar figures have been suggested by groups such as the
:11:57. > :12:00.CBI. By the way I have not included all 500 billion, just the 250
:12:01. > :12:05.billion on public spending, not the extra money. You talk about the
:12:06. > :12:09.fiscal rules. The draft manifesto said you will leave debt as a
:12:10. > :12:16.proportion of trend GDP law at the end of each parliament, you have
:12:17. > :12:20.just said a version of that. What is trend GDP? In clear terms we will
:12:21. > :12:24.ensure the debt we acquire will be reduced by the end of the
:12:25. > :12:32.parliament. We won't leave the Government finances in a worse state
:12:33. > :12:36.than we found them. OK, but what is trend GDP? Our rule is we will
:12:37. > :12:40.ensure public sector net debt is less than we found it when we came
:12:41. > :12:48.to power in Government on June the 8th. But that is not what your draft
:12:49. > :12:52.manifesto says. I'm not going to comment on leaks, you are just going
:12:53. > :12:57.to have to wait until Tuesday to look at the fine detail and perhaps
:12:58. > :13:00.we will have another chat then. You have published your plans for
:13:01. > :13:04.corporation tax and you will increase it by a third and your
:13:05. > :13:09.predictions assumed that will get an extra 20 billion a year by the end
:13:10. > :13:14.of the parliament. But that assumes the companies don't change their
:13:15. > :13:18.behaviour, that they move money around, they leave the country or
:13:19. > :13:24.they generate smaller profits. Is that realistic? You are right to
:13:25. > :13:27.make that point and you will see when we set out our policies and
:13:28. > :13:33.costings in the manifesto that we haven't spent all of the tax take.
:13:34. > :13:35.We have allowed for different differentials and potential changes
:13:36. > :13:40.in market activity because that would be approved and direction to
:13:41. > :13:48.take. But corporation tax is allowed to be cut in France and the United
:13:49. > :13:51.States, it's only 12.5% in Dublin. Many companies based in Britain are
:13:52. > :13:56.already wondering whether they should relocate because of Brexit,
:13:57. > :14:01.if you increase this tax by a third couldn't that clinch it for a number
:14:02. > :14:07.of them? No, we will still be one of the lowest corporation tax rate in
:14:08. > :14:11.the G7. Let's look at what's important for business. Cutting
:14:12. > :14:16.corporation tax in itself doesn't improve productivity, or business
:14:17. > :14:18.investment and there's no suggestion cutting corporation tax in recent
:14:19. > :14:25.years has achieved that. Businesses need an investment in tools in
:14:26. > :14:29.things they need to thrive and prosper, they also need to reduce
:14:30. > :14:34.the burden at the lower end of the tax scale, before we get to the
:14:35. > :14:41.Prophet stage. One key example is business rates. We have made the
:14:42. > :14:44.proposal to government to in -- exclude machinery so businesses can
:14:45. > :14:51.invest and grow operations in the future but the Government refused.
:14:52. > :15:01.Corporation tax has been cut since 2010. When it was 28% it brought in
:15:02. > :15:08.?43 billion a year. Now it is down to 20%, it brought in ?55 billion a
:15:09. > :15:15.year. By cutting it in the last year, it brought in 21% more, so
:15:16. > :15:19.what is the problem? It might have brought in more money, but has it
:15:20. > :15:24.increased business investment in the long term. It is not just about
:15:25. > :15:28.cutting corporation tax, but it is on the ability of businesses to
:15:29. > :15:34.thrive and prosper. Business investment in the UK is below are
:15:35. > :15:41.industrial competitors. Wages are stagnating which doesn't indicate
:15:42. > :15:46.businesses are not doing well. Let me get it right, you are arguing if
:15:47. > :15:52.we increase business tax by a third, that will increase investment? I am
:15:53. > :16:00.not saying that. You just did. Know I didn't, I said reducing business
:16:01. > :16:04.tax isn't enough, you have to invest in the things businesses need to
:16:05. > :16:16.thrive and prosper. You have also got to lessen the burden on
:16:17. > :16:20.business. You have announced a financial transaction tax. Your own
:16:21. > :16:25.labour Mayor of London said he has vowed to fight it. He said I do not
:16:26. > :16:31.want a unilateral tax on business in our city, so why are you proceeding
:16:32. > :16:34.with it? This isn't a new initiative, there is a growing
:16:35. > :16:38.global pressure to make sure we have fairness in the financial sector.
:16:39. > :16:44.Ordinary British people are paying for our banking crisis they didn't
:16:45. > :16:49.cause. Another important point, stamp duty reserve tax was brought
:16:50. > :16:53.in in the 1600 and there have been little reforms. The sector has
:16:54. > :16:58.changed and we have do provide changes to the system for that
:16:59. > :17:03.change. High-frequency trading where we have a state of affairs where a
:17:04. > :17:07.lot of shares are traded on computers within milliseconds. We
:17:08. > :17:14.need a tax system that keeps up with that. What happens if they move the
:17:15. > :17:19.computers to another country? Emily Thornaby said this morning, other
:17:20. > :17:22.countries had already introduced a financial transaction tax, what
:17:23. > :17:30.other countries have done that? There are ten countries looking at
:17:31. > :17:37.introducing a transaction tax. Which ones have done it so far? They will
:17:38. > :17:42.be later announcing a final package, going through the finer detail at
:17:43. > :17:46.the moment. But the European Commission tried to get this done in
:17:47. > :17:51.2011 and it still hasn't happened in any of these countries. But you are
:17:52. > :17:56.going to go ahead unilaterally and risk these businesses, which
:17:57. > :18:00.generate a lot of money, moving to other jurisdictions. There is not a
:18:01. > :18:12.significant risk of that happening. The stamp duty reserve tax is levied
:18:13. > :18:16.at either where the person or company is domiciled or where the
:18:17. > :18:21.instrument is issued rather than worth the transaction takes place.
:18:22. > :18:24.This tax in itself is not enough to make people leave this country in
:18:25. > :18:29.terms of financial services because there is more to keep these
:18:30. > :18:33.businesses here in terms of the investment we are making, the
:18:34. > :18:37.economy that Labour will build, in terms of productivity improvement we
:18:38. > :18:42.will see. Thank you very much, Rebecca Long-Bailey.
:18:43. > :18:47.And listening to that was the Home Office Minister, Brandon Lewis.
:18:48. > :18:53.Over the years, you have got corporation tax by 20%, it is lower
:18:54. > :19:00.than international standards, so why are so many global companies who
:19:01. > :19:05.make money out of Great Britain, still not paying 20%? It is one of
:19:06. > :19:08.the problems with the point Labour were making and Rebecca could not
:19:09. > :19:14.answer, these companies can move around the world. One of the
:19:15. > :19:18.important things is having a low tax economy but these businesses, it
:19:19. > :19:23.encourages them to come at a rate they are prepared to pay. People may
:19:24. > :19:29.say they are right, if they were paying 19, 20% incorporation tax.
:19:30. > :19:38.But they are not. Google runs a multi-million pound corporation and
:19:39. > :19:42.did not pay anywhere near 20%. There are companies that are trading
:19:43. > :19:50.internationally and that is why we have to get this work done with our
:19:51. > :19:54.partners around the world. Has there been an improvement? It is more than
:19:55. > :19:59.they were paying before. Whether it is Google or any other company,
:20:00. > :20:04.alongside them being here, apart from the tax they pay, it is the
:20:05. > :20:08.people they employ. The deal was, if you cut the business tax, the
:20:09. > :20:13.corporation tax on profits, we would get more companies coming here and
:20:14. > :20:17.more companies paying their tax. It seems it doesn't matter how low, a
:20:18. > :20:24.number of companies just pay a derisory amount and you haven't been
:20:25. > :20:26.able to change that. As you outlined, the income taken from the
:20:27. > :20:34.changing corporation tax has gone up. That is from established British
:20:35. > :20:37.companies, not from these international companies. It is
:20:38. > :20:41.because more companies are coming here and paying tax. That is a good
:20:42. > :20:47.thing. There is always more to do and that is why we want to crack
:20:48. > :20:51.down. In the last few weeks in the Finnish Parliament, Labour refused
:20:52. > :20:57.to put to another ?8.7 billion of tax take we could have got by
:20:58. > :21:02.cracking down further. You claim to have made great progress on cracking
:21:03. > :21:07.down on people and companies to pay the tax they should. But the tax gap
:21:08. > :21:13.is the difference between what HMRC takes in and what it should take in.
:21:14. > :21:19.It has barely moved in five years, so where is the progress? He have
:21:20. > :21:23.brought in 150 billion more where we have cracked down on those tax
:21:24. > :21:33.schemes. The gap is still the same as it was five years ago. It's gone
:21:34. > :21:35.from 6.8, 26.5. It has gone down. The Prime Minister and the
:21:36. > :21:40.Chancellor said they want to continue work on to get more money
:21:41. > :21:46.on these companies while still having a competitive rate to
:21:47. > :21:51.encourage these companies. While big business and the wealthy continue to
:21:52. > :21:54.prosper, the Office for Budget Responsibility tell us those on
:21:55. > :22:00.average earnings in this country will be earning less in real terms
:22:01. > :22:06.by 2021 than they did in 2008. How can that be fair? I don't see it
:22:07. > :22:11.that way. I haven't seen the figures you have got. What I can say to you,
:22:12. > :22:16.Andrew, we have made sure the minimum wage has gone up, the actual
:22:17. > :22:25.income tax people pay has gone down. So in their pocket, real terms,
:22:26. > :22:27.people have more money. You are the self-styled party of work. We keep
:22:28. > :22:31.emphasising work. Under your government you can work for 13 years
:22:32. > :22:38.and still not earn any more at the end of it, and you did at the start.
:22:39. > :22:43.Where is the reward for effort in that? I have not seen those figures.
:22:44. > :22:50.There are 2.8 million more people, more jobs in economy than there was.
:22:51. > :22:53.1000 jobs every day and people are working and developing through their
:22:54. > :22:57.careers. This is what I thought was odd in what Rebecca was saying,
:22:58. > :23:02.investing in people is what the apprenticeship levy is about,
:23:03. > :23:07.companies are investing their works force to take more opportunities
:23:08. > :23:11.that there. We are talking about fairness, politicians talk about
:23:12. > :23:15.hard-working people and we know the average earnings are no higher than
:23:16. > :23:20.they were in 2008. We know the pay and bonuses of senior executives
:23:21. > :23:23.have continued to grow and the Institute for Fiscal Studies has
:23:24. > :23:29.shown 3 million of the poorest households will lose an average of
:23:30. > :23:35.?2500 a year in the next Parliament, benefits frozen, further sanctions
:23:36. > :23:40.kick in. 3 million of the poorest losing 2500. Under the Tories, one
:23:41. > :23:45.law for the rich and another for the poor. It is quite wrong. First of
:23:46. > :23:50.all, we have got to be fair to the taxpayer who is funding the welfare
:23:51. > :23:56.and benefit system. Which is why the welfare was right. Get more people
:23:57. > :24:03.in work and then it is important to get more people upscaling. As that
:24:04. > :24:08.allowance rises, people have more of the money they earn in their pocket
:24:09. > :24:14.to be able to use in the economy. People will be worse off. 2500,
:24:15. > :24:20.among the poorest already. They will have more money in their pocket as
:24:21. > :24:26.we increase the allowance before people pay tax. We have seen
:24:27. > :24:30.millions of people coming out of tax altogether. The reason I ask these
:24:31. > :24:35.questions, you and the Prime Minister go on and on about the just
:24:36. > :24:39.about managing classes. I am talking about the just about managing and
:24:40. > :24:43.below that. It is all talk, you haven't done anything for them. We
:24:44. > :24:48.have made sure they have an increasing minimum wage, it has gone
:24:49. > :24:54.up more under us than any other previous government. Their wages
:24:55. > :24:59.will be still lower in real terms. Let me come on to this plan for
:25:00. > :25:04.housing. We have announced a new plan to increase affordable housing,
:25:05. > :25:08.social housing, some council housing and social housing built by the
:25:09. > :25:12.associations. How much money is behind this? It is part of the 1.4
:25:13. > :25:20.billion announced in the Autumn Statement. How many homes will you
:25:21. > :25:23.get for 1.4 billion? That depends on the negotiations with local
:25:24. > :25:30.authorities. It is local authorities, who know the area best.
:25:31. > :25:34.I will not put a number on that. 1.4 billion, if you price the house at
:25:35. > :25:40.100,000, which is very low, particularly for the South, back at
:25:41. > :25:45.you 14,000 new homes. That is it. What we have seen before, how the
:25:46. > :25:49.local government can leveraged to build thousands more homes. That is
:25:50. > :25:53.what we want to see across the country. It is not just about the
:25:54. > :25:56.money, for a lot of local authorities it is about the
:25:57. > :26:02.expertise and knowledge on how to do this. That is why support from the
:26:03. > :26:08.housing communities minister will help. What is the timescale, how
:26:09. > :26:13.many more affordable homes will be built? I will not put a number on
:26:14. > :26:18.it. You announced it today, so you cannot tell me how many more or what
:26:19. > :26:22.the target is? It is a matter of working with the local authorities
:26:23. > :26:25.who know what their local needs are, what land they have got available.
:26:26. > :26:30.What we saw through the local elections with the Metro mayors,
:26:31. > :26:33.they want to deliver in their areas, whether it is the West of England,
:26:34. > :26:39.the north-east, Liverpool, Manchester and we want to work with
:26:40. > :26:42.them. You have said variations of this for the past seven years and I
:26:43. > :26:48.want some credibility. When you cannot tell us how much money, what
:26:49. > :26:52.the target and timescale is, and this government, under which
:26:53. > :26:57.affordable house building has fallen to a 24 year low. 1.2 million
:26:58. > :27:03.families are on waiting lists for social housing to rent. That is your
:27:04. > :27:07.record. Why should we believe a word you say? This is different to what
:27:08. > :27:12.we have been doing over the last two years. We want to develop and have a
:27:13. > :27:19.strong and stable economy that can sustain that 1.4 billion homes. This
:27:20. > :27:25.is important. In 2010, we inherited the lowest level of house building,
:27:26. > :27:31.75,000 new homes. That is about 189,000 over the last four years.
:27:32. > :27:34.That is a big step forward after the crash, getting people back into the
:27:35. > :27:46.industry. More first-time buyers onto the market. Final question, in
:27:47. > :27:50.2010, 2011, your first year in government, there were 60,000
:27:51. > :27:58.affordable homes built. May not be enough, but last day it was 30 2000.
:27:59. > :28:05.So why should we trust anything you say about this? On housing, we have
:28:06. > :28:11.delivered. We have delivered more social housing. Double what Labour
:28:12. > :28:15.did in 13 years, in just five years. This is what this policy is about,
:28:16. > :28:16.working with local authorities to deliver more homes to people in
:28:17. > :28:20.their local areas. Thank you. Now, they have a deficit
:28:21. > :28:23.of between 15 and 20% in the polls, but Jeremy Corbyn and those
:28:24. > :28:26.around him insist Labour can win. If the polls are right they've got
:28:27. > :28:29.three and half weeks to change voters' minds and persuade those
:28:30. > :28:31.fabled undecided voters We enlisted the polling organisation
:28:32. > :28:36.YouGov to help us find out how the performance of party leaders
:28:37. > :28:38.will affect behaviour Leeds, a city of three quarters
:28:39. > :28:48.of a million people, eight Parliamentary seats and home
:28:49. > :28:53.to our very own focus group. Our panel was recruited
:28:54. > :28:55.from a variety of backgrounds and the majority say they haven't
:28:56. > :28:59.decided who to vote for yet. Watching behind the glass,
:29:00. > :29:01.two experts on different sides Giles Cunningham, who headed up
:29:02. > :29:09.political press at Downing Street under David Cameron
:29:10. > :29:15.and Aaron Bastani, Corbin supporter, under David Cameron
:29:16. > :29:17.and Aaron Bastani, Corbyn supporter, I think Theresa May sees herself
:29:18. > :29:21.as a pound shop Thatcher. Milliband's policies but when it
:29:22. > :29:41.came about who you want,
:29:42. > :29:45.if you wake up on maybe a 2015, We found in a couple of focus
:29:46. > :29:49.groups, people saying we'd be quite relieved,
:29:50. > :29:51.even though some of those same people have been saying we quite
:29:52. > :29:54.like the Labour policies. I think the fact that Corbyn's
:29:55. > :29:58.going so hard on his values, this is a really progressive
:29:59. > :30:00.manifesto, they live But I think that's a new challenge,
:30:01. > :30:04.that wasn't there in 2015. Is there anyone here that
:30:05. > :30:06.you don't recognise? After a little warm up,
:30:07. > :30:08.the first exercise, recognising I think it's nice to have a strong
:30:09. > :30:15.woman in politics, I do. But I've got to say,
:30:16. > :30:17.when she comes on the news, I kind of do think,
:30:18. > :30:20.here we go again. Tell me about Tim Farron, what
:30:21. > :30:22.are your impressions of Tim Farron? It isn't going to do anything,
:30:23. > :30:27.it isn't going to change anything. You'll be surprised to hear it's
:30:28. > :30:36.actually the Greens. Strong and stable leadership
:30:37. > :30:48.in the national interest. Yes, Team May, it's
:30:49. > :30:53.the British equivalent of make What do we think about this one
:30:54. > :31:03.for the many and not the few? It's not quite as bad
:31:04. > :31:05.as strong and stable, but it will probably get
:31:06. > :31:08.on our nerves after a while. We must seize that chance today
:31:09. > :31:18.and every day until June the 8th. But that's not quite my
:31:19. > :31:26.question, my question is, if you are Prime Minister,
:31:27. > :31:29.we will leave, come hell or high water, whatever is on the table
:31:30. > :31:32.at the end of the negotiations? If we win the election,
:31:33. > :31:35.we'll get a good deal with Europe. Assertive and in control
:31:36. > :31:36.and he felt comfortable But the second one, I thought
:31:37. > :31:41.he was very hesitant. I thought he was kind of,
:31:42. > :31:51.hovering around, skirting around and that's the second
:31:52. > :31:53.time I've seen a similar interview with the question
:31:54. > :31:55.being asked regarding Brexit. I don't think I'd have
:31:56. > :31:57.any confidence with him You think you are going up
:31:58. > :32:01.against some quite strong people, how are you going to stand
:32:02. > :32:03.up for us? When you are in negotiations,
:32:04. > :32:08.you need to be tough. And actually is right
:32:09. > :32:09.to be tough sometimes, particularly when you are doing
:32:10. > :32:12.something for the country. There's a reason for talking
:32:13. > :32:14.about strong and stable leadership. It's about the future
:32:15. > :32:16.of the country, it's It's just that people kind of listen
:32:17. > :32:21.to that kind of thing and think Both on The One Show
:32:22. > :32:26.and in the news. She attracts the public better
:32:27. > :32:32.than what Corbyn does. She didn't answer the question
:32:33. > :32:35.in a more articular way than Corbyn Imagine that Theresa
:32:36. > :32:41.May is an animal. So, in your minds,
:32:42. > :32:44.what animal is coming to mind I've done a Pekinese because I think
:32:45. > :32:59.she's all bark and no bite. Alpaca because she's
:33:00. > :33:05.superior looking and woolly I don't think his policies
:33:06. > :33:21.are for the modern, real world. A mouse because they are weak
:33:22. > :33:24.and they can be easily bullied, but also they can catch
:33:25. > :33:26.you by surprise if you're What do you take away
:33:27. > :33:34.from what you saw then, and what message would you send back
:33:35. > :33:37.to the Tories now? I think what came over is people see
:33:38. > :33:40.Theresa May as a strong politician, not everyone likes her,
:33:41. > :33:43.but you don't need to be liked to be elected,
:33:44. > :33:45.because ultimately it's about who do you trust with your future
:33:46. > :33:47.and your security. I think what I also take out
:33:48. > :33:50.of that focus group, was it was a group of floating
:33:51. > :33:53.voters, there was no huge appetite for the Lib Dems and there was no
:33:54. > :33:56.huge appetite for Ukip. So my messaged back to CCHQ
:33:57. > :33:58.would be stick to the plan. I thought the response
:33:59. > :34:02.to the manifesto was excellent. It's clear that people aren't
:34:03. > :34:04.particularly keen on Theresa May, There are some associations with her
:34:05. > :34:09.about strength and stability, which is exactly what the Tory party
:34:10. > :34:12.want of course, but they are not positive and nobody thinks
:34:13. > :34:15.that she has a vision So, what I'd say the Jeremy Corbyn,
:34:16. > :34:21.what I'd say to the Labour Party is, they need to really emphasise
:34:22. > :34:23.the manifesto in Jeremy Corbyn himself has to perform
:34:24. > :34:29.out of his skin and I think he has to reemphasise those
:34:30. > :34:32.characteristics which may be have come to the fore may be
:34:33. > :34:34.over the last 12 months, resilience, strength and the fact
:34:35. > :34:37.that he's come this far, why not take that final step and go
:34:38. > :34:40.into ten Downing Street? We're joined now by the American
:34:41. > :34:47.political consultant For the sake of this discussion,
:34:48. > :34:54.assume the polls at the moment are broadly right, is there any hope for
:34:55. > :35:00.Mr Corbyn in the undecided voters? Know, and this is a very serious
:35:01. > :35:04.collection with serious consequences to who wins. Nobody cares whether
:35:05. > :35:08.you can draw and what animal they represent, they want to know where
:35:09. > :35:12.they stand, and I felt that was frivolous. I come to Britain to
:35:13. > :35:17.watch elections because I learned from here. Your elections are more
:35:18. > :35:21.substantial, more serious, more policy and less about personality
:35:22. > :35:26.and that peace was only about personality. That's partly because
:35:27. > :35:36.Mrs May has decided to make this a presidential election. You can see
:35:37. > :35:43.on the posters it is all Team May. I agree with that, and in her language
:35:44. > :35:48.she says not everyone benefits from a Conservative government, I don't
:35:49. > :35:52.see how using anything Republicans have used in the past. In fact her
:35:53. > :35:57.campaign is more of a centrist Democrats but it is a smart strategy
:35:58. > :36:02.because it pushes Corbyn further to the left. Of course you said Hillary
:36:03. > :36:07.Clinton have won. On election night the polling was so bad in America,
:36:08. > :36:13.the exit polls that were done, the BBC told America she had won. No, I
:36:14. > :36:21.was anchoring the programme that night, I ignored your tweet. The BBC
:36:22. > :36:26.had the same numbers. Yes, but we did not say she had won, I can
:36:27. > :36:31.assure you of that. Because of people like you we thought she had
:36:32. > :36:38.but we didn't broadcast it. That was a smart approach. My point is other
:36:39. > :36:43.than teasing you, maybe there is hope for Jeremy Corbyn. I think you
:36:44. > :36:48.will have one of the lowest turnout in modern history and I think Labour
:36:49. > :36:52.will fall to one of the lowest percentages, not percentage of
:36:53. > :36:56.number of seats they have had, and this will be a matter of
:36:57. > :37:01.soul-searching for both political parties. What you do with a sizeable
:37:02. > :37:04.majority, and she has a responsibility to tell the British
:37:05. > :37:11.people exactly what happens as she moves forward. He and Labour will
:37:12. > :37:15.have to take a look at whether they still represent a significant slice
:37:16. > :37:20.of the British population. Do you see a realignment in British
:37:21. > :37:24.politics taking place? I see a crumbling of the left and yet there
:37:25. > :37:28.is still a significant percentage of the British population that once
:37:29. > :37:37.someone who is centre-left. And they like a lot of Mr Corbyn's policies.
:37:38. > :37:40.I'm listening to Michael foot. I went to school here in the 1980s and
:37:41. > :37:43.I feel like I'm watching the Labour Party of 35 years ago, in a
:37:44. > :37:49.population that wants to focus on the future, not the past. Thank you.
:37:50. > :37:52.It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:37:53. > :37:54.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:37:55. > :38:06.Welcome to the Sunday Politics in the Midlands.
:38:07. > :38:08.Can you ever have too much of a good thing?
:38:09. > :38:11.Two general elections and a referendum in just two years?
:38:12. > :38:16.It's no laughing matter for comedian Eddie Izzard,
:38:17. > :38:18.taking to the streets against the "stay-at-home factor"
:38:19. > :38:23.in some of the lowest-voting areas of Britain.
:38:24. > :38:27.Hotfoot from the campaign trail this Sunday morning:
:38:28. > :38:32.Shabana Mahmood for Labour and James Morris for the Conservatives,
:38:33. > :38:39.both erstwhile MPs who are now hoping to live to fight another day.
:38:40. > :38:41.And we'll also be hearing why the Trade Unionist
:38:42. > :38:45.and Socialist Coalition, otherwise known as TUSC,
:38:46. > :38:50.will not be standing in next month's election.
:38:51. > :38:53.But we begin out on the stump with Jeremy Corbyn.
:38:54. > :38:56.He came to Leamington Spa and Worcester.
:38:57. > :38:59.Both were held by Labour during the Blair-Brown years,
:39:00. > :39:02.but won back by the Conservatives in 2010.
:39:03. > :39:05.They are exactly the sort of "Middle England" constituencies
:39:06. > :39:10.Labour must re-capture if they're to make any headway on June the 8th.
:39:11. > :39:12.In Worcester, Mr Corbyn was joined by supporters,
:39:13. > :39:17.including one of Nuneaton's famous sons, the film director Ken Loach.
:39:18. > :39:20.Earlier the Labour leader had announced a new policy to abolish
:39:21. > :39:25.hospital car parking charges for patients and staff.
:39:26. > :39:27.If you visit a hospital because you want to look
:39:28. > :39:30.after an elderly relative, or give support to a friend,
:39:31. > :39:33.or go there in an emergency, I don't think you should be charged
:39:34. > :39:37.I've just been talking also to a group of nurses,
:39:38. > :39:40.some of whom are community nurses and therefore have to go
:39:41. > :39:43.to different hospitals at different times.
:39:44. > :39:46.Others come in to do night shifts at difficult times when there is no
:39:47. > :39:50.They need to be able to park their car.
:39:51. > :39:53.Unfortunately, in many cases, they have to pay for the privilege
:39:54. > :39:55.of parking at a place of work where they have to be,
:39:56. > :40:02.and they have had frozen pay for the past seven years.
:40:03. > :40:11.Car parking charges at up to ?10 per day in some local hospitals. James
:40:12. > :40:14.Morrison is Jeremy Hunt's parliamentary Private Secretary, you
:40:15. > :40:18.know how this infuriates many people in our part of the country,
:40:19. > :40:24.especially those sections of the committee most likely to vote. Mr
:40:25. > :40:27.Corbyn could be onto something. We introduced giving discretion to
:40:28. > :40:34.trust to make decisions about local things, but the broadest point is
:40:35. > :40:37.whether the NHS is we have put ?10 billion further into the NHS to
:40:38. > :40:42.kick-start a five-year review. We have more nurses and more doctors in
:40:43. > :40:47.the NHS, Jeremy Corbyn can pick a particular policies from the league,
:40:48. > :40:51.chaotic manifesto, but they don't add up to anything, other than
:40:52. > :40:56.taking us back to the 1970s. Use a late and chaotic, but looking
:40:57. > :41:00.at individual proposals in there, popular appeal. Public ownership of
:41:01. > :41:05.the railways and Royal Mail. ?8 billion extra for social care.
:41:06. > :41:09.I think it is a shambles and chaotic in that it takes us back to the
:41:10. > :41:13.1970s. The proposals I have seen in this manifesto basically put at risk
:41:14. > :41:19.all of the things that we have achieved over the last seven years,
:41:20. > :41:22.high levels of employment, getting the deficit under control... This
:41:23. > :41:27.would take us back to the 1970s and is too much of a risk.
:41:28. > :41:30.I think the picture he is painting of the National Health Service is
:41:31. > :41:34.not what your viewers will have experienced if they have been
:41:35. > :41:37.engaging with the NHS. We know the NHS is under unprecedented crisis,
:41:38. > :41:42.emergency. I defy James to sit here emergency. I defy James to sit here
:41:43. > :41:46.and say it is not. The idea this is a Government that has been investing
:41:47. > :41:51.heavily in the one public service that everybody knows... Let me
:41:52. > :41:55.finish, James. It is under great stress, and actually on car parking
:41:56. > :41:58.charges the idea that people when they are taking a sick relative have
:41:59. > :42:05.to pay, I think is something people think is immoral.
:42:06. > :42:07.Chief executive of the NHS said he needed ?10 billion to kick-start the
:42:08. > :42:11.five-year plan for the NHS and that is what we have invested. There are
:42:12. > :42:14.more doctors and more nurses and the NHS than ever before, and more than
:42:15. > :42:17.there were any previous Labour Government.
:42:18. > :42:25.But there is a crisis in the NHS. Appointing former shadow Treasury
:42:26. > :42:29.minister yourself, -- pointing to... Does Labour need a money tree to
:42:30. > :42:34.invest that isn't costing... What about the risk of taking so much in
:42:35. > :42:37.taxation out of the British economy? As a former Treasury specialist that
:42:38. > :42:41.must be a concern. John McDonnell said he will release
:42:42. > :42:45.all the costings of every puzzle in the manifesto when it is officially
:42:46. > :42:49.launched rather than the leaked version. -- of every point in the
:42:50. > :42:53.manifesto. In the end what I know for my time in the shadow Treasury
:42:54. > :42:56.team is theirs is about choices. Making an explicit choice that we
:42:57. > :43:00.will borrow for capital investment I think is a sensible economic choice
:43:01. > :43:06.to be making, and different choices on corporation tax.
:43:07. > :43:10.John McDonnell says he is a Marxist. If the British people do not trust
:43:11. > :43:14.them to run the British economy... He allegedly said so but I think
:43:15. > :43:17.that is an issue for another... Energy for another day but people
:43:18. > :43:18.will look at the manifesto and the job policies and it was an manifesto
:43:19. > :43:20.people will like. Two general elections
:43:21. > :43:22.and a referendum, in just two years. Plus those elections
:43:23. > :43:24.for the Metro Mayor If voting is your thing,
:43:25. > :43:29.you've never had it so good. But is it just as likely others may
:43:30. > :43:32.be feeling "electioned-out"? Four of the UK's lowest turnouts
:43:33. > :43:36.at the last general election were in our part of the country,
:43:37. > :43:39.with Stoke Central rock bottom Rob Mayor has been canvassing
:43:40. > :43:46.opinions this time round. Out on the streets of Birmingham -
:43:47. > :43:49.this seat had one of the lowest In 2015 almost half the people
:43:50. > :43:59.in Erdington didn't bother to vote - perhaps a registration
:44:00. > :44:01.drive with a sprinkling If you do nothing, it definitely
:44:02. > :44:07.doesn't make a difference. If you do nothing at all,
:44:08. > :44:09.if you do not register, and if you do not vote,
:44:10. > :44:12.that definitely will not It doesn't always make
:44:13. > :44:16.a massive difference, but, definitely, not voting
:44:17. > :44:25.makes zero difference. Round the corner on
:44:26. > :44:27.the bowling green, over-65s were twice as likely
:44:28. > :44:34.as under-25s to vote last time. They can't be bothered
:44:35. > :44:41.to make up their minds, The reason I don't vote much now
:44:42. > :44:48.is cos I've got nobody to take me, and I'm not going to walk
:44:49. > :44:53.all that way. People, I think, used to vote
:44:54. > :44:56.quite regularly at one time, but now I think people have just
:44:57. > :44:59.lost interest in politics. Of the ten seats with the lowest
:45:00. > :45:01.turnout in 2015, In Walsall North,
:45:02. > :45:10.turnout was just 55%. In Birmingham Erdington Birmimgham
:45:11. > :45:15.Ladywood, it was just 53%, whilst in Stoke-on-Trent Central,
:45:16. > :45:20.fewer than half voted. And that dropped by a further 12%
:45:21. > :45:24.at the by-election in February. It's not the West Midlanders
:45:25. > :45:28.who are to blame - it's the nature of
:45:29. > :45:29.the constituencies. And we know that throughout
:45:30. > :45:32.the West Midlands there are quite a number of constituencies
:45:33. > :45:34.which are Labour strongholds, so much so that, as a Labour voter,
:45:35. > :45:39.you could be forgiven for thinking, we know Labour's going
:45:40. > :45:41.to hold onto this seat. The solution is to have politicians
:45:42. > :45:43.and a political class that appeal to people,
:45:44. > :45:47.mobilise them and motivate them, and that's what we have been missing
:45:48. > :45:50.for a generation in politics. Some of the doctor's students will
:45:51. > :45:53.vote for the first time in June, but say more could be done
:45:54. > :45:57.to encourage young people. It's very difficult for young people
:45:58. > :46:00.to see the difference between the main political parties,
:46:01. > :46:07.so it's difficult to choose. I have heard people saying,
:46:08. > :46:09.not just young people, that they feel as though their vote
:46:10. > :46:13.won't have any significance. I couldn't register in time to vote
:46:14. > :46:16.for the mayoral election, and I just remember how frustrated
:46:17. > :46:18.I was that there wasn't, just, you know, an app
:46:19. > :46:20.that I could download, put in my age, put in my
:46:21. > :46:24.postcode, put in my name So perhaps the missing
:46:25. > :46:27.voters will be tempted in by the chance of a change -
:46:28. > :46:45.there's a huge number of people And we have just heard the American
:46:46. > :46:49.polling expert telling Andrew Neal he expects this general election to
:46:50. > :46:54.have an ultra low turnout. We have been looking at the numbers in
:46:55. > :46:58.constituencies which our politicians here have represented and hope to do
:46:59. > :47:04.again. We looked at Ladywood in Birmingham, that is in this rogues
:47:05. > :47:08.gallery of ultralow turnouts, 40% in 2010. Just over half, 52% last time.
:47:09. > :47:13.Not exactly a big endorsement. I think we have had low turnout in
:47:14. > :47:18.Ladywood for a while. It is a real problem and there is a range of
:47:19. > :47:21.factors. We have a much younger population than most constituencies
:47:22. > :47:25.and a more transient population. My own view is we have decreasing
:47:26. > :47:28.turnout across the country for all of the different types of elections
:47:29. > :47:33.that we have. I know just what we were all thinking it was a triumph
:47:34. > :47:36.of turnout at the West Midlands May oral election nearly had a 30%
:47:37. > :47:42.turnout, that I was a triumph. It's not really a triumph... 70% did not
:47:43. > :47:47.vote which is a tragedy in my view. I am more open-minded these days
:47:48. > :47:54.about the idea of compulsory voting. It is part of a fundamental contract
:47:55. > :48:01.with your state that you do vote. Halesowen and Rowley Regis, James,
:48:02. > :48:06.2010 69%, 2015 59%. I think the point is that over the
:48:07. > :48:07.last few years, we have detected more engagement, actually.
:48:08. > :48:13.Particularly after the EU referendum. I think that after the
:48:14. > :48:17.EU referendum people are more engaged, knowing that there are some
:48:18. > :48:20.very important decisions that we are making about the future of the
:48:21. > :48:24.country. And when you have an election which is about a very clear
:48:25. > :48:27.choice about the future of the country in this world, or we have
:48:28. > :48:30.decided to leave the EU referendum, my experience on the doorstep in my
:48:31. > :48:36.constituency is that people are very engaged with the decision they made
:48:37. > :48:40.-- need to make in this referendum. One thing is that the referendum is
:48:41. > :48:44.a baseline, a referendum is a binary choice, one of the other, yes or no,
:48:45. > :48:48.that is not held general elections are local or mayoral elections are,
:48:49. > :48:51.because they are about broader policy, the future direction of this
:48:52. > :48:56.country... And the turnout... Some would argue there is a binary
:48:57. > :49:01.choice in this election between a strong leadership Theresa May...
:49:02. > :49:04.Get your lines out, James, but it is much more fundamental...
:49:05. > :49:07.That is the choice presented to the visual action and they are engaged
:49:08. > :49:11.in that choice between the qualities of the people who will lead this
:49:12. > :49:18.country for a very important negotiations went... With our
:49:19. > :49:21.leaving from the EU... Will expect a row to be crushingly
:49:22. > :49:25.low. Lower still if according to your
:49:26. > :49:28.draft manifesto you want 16-year-olds to get the vote, which
:49:29. > :49:32.will make the turnout even lower. It is looking at the franchise and
:49:33. > :49:36.who is able to vote in trying to get a habit of voting into citizens
:49:37. > :49:40.from, you know, the endless possible age, so it becomes a norm you do.
:49:41. > :49:45.But you don't have that habit when you're 18 or 21 or whatever, then it
:49:46. > :49:48.is harder to form that habit. It is not like there is a knowledge and
:49:49. > :49:51.every week. It feels like that, but in the normal run of things they are
:49:52. > :49:54.every few years, and making that habit is quite difficult. That is
:49:55. > :49:58.why I personally observing to think as a society we need to have a
:49:59. > :50:04.rethink about the way we do voting. You agree? That has not been seen to
:50:05. > :50:09.be the British way but maybe we have got to the stage...
:50:10. > :50:11.I don't agree about compulsion. In a democracy people should have the
:50:12. > :50:15.freedom to decide that they don't want to vote for any of the above.
:50:16. > :50:18.But it is the job of politicians and the job of our political process to
:50:19. > :50:20.engage people on the issues facing the country.
:50:21. > :50:24.No pacts... "No pacts. No deals.
:50:25. > :50:25.No trade-offs." That's been the stock
:50:26. > :50:27.response from most political parties over the years,
:50:28. > :50:30.to suggestions that they might stand aside for the sake of other,
:50:31. > :50:32.like-minded candidates. This time though, one party
:50:33. > :50:34.which has fought large numbers of seats in previous elections,
:50:35. > :50:37.will not be standing at all. The Trade Unionist and Socialist
:50:38. > :50:39.Coalition is stepping aside to give Jeremy Corbyn the best possible
:50:40. > :50:44.chance of becoming Prime Minister. The Trade Unionist and Socialist
:50:45. > :50:46.Coalition was launched ahead This is the biggest party
:50:47. > :50:55.you have never heard of. Actually, we are the sixth-biggest
:50:56. > :50:57.party in the country, At the last general election,
:50:58. > :51:01.the party fought 135 constituencies across the country
:51:02. > :51:05.on an anti-cuts agenda. We have had enough of
:51:06. > :51:07.the establishment parties. They serve the interests
:51:08. > :51:09.of the 1%, not the 99%. The whole political
:51:10. > :51:13.system is bankrupt. They've also fielded
:51:14. > :51:14.hundreds of candidates in local elections too,
:51:15. > :51:16.but they have just TUSC chairman Dave Nellist
:51:17. > :51:21.was expelled from the Labour Party in 1991 because of his connections
:51:22. > :51:23.to the Militant Tendency. The former Coventry MP was a close
:51:24. > :51:28.ally of Labour left-wingers In November, Mr Nellist was among
:51:29. > :51:35.a group of 70 left-wingers who applied to rejoin
:51:36. > :51:38.the Labour Party to support Mr Corbyn, but Labour rules prevent
:51:39. > :51:40.members of other parties And Dave Nellist,
:51:41. > :51:47.chair of the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition,
:51:48. > :51:57.is here with us now. Are you giving up? Have you had
:51:58. > :52:01.enough? Not at all. This is not a blank
:52:02. > :52:07.cheque. It is a one-off deal. We started seven years ago, by the
:52:08. > :52:11.transport union the RMT, with an overlapping agenda between the main
:52:12. > :52:14.parties... Earlier interviewees said you cannot tell the difference but
:52:15. > :52:17.now I think you can tell the difference. The leaked manifesto
:52:18. > :52:21.from Jeremy Corbyn, public ownership, raising wages, more money
:52:22. > :52:24.for the NHS, could make a fundamental difference on the 8th of
:52:25. > :52:25.June we want that to have the chance.
:52:26. > :52:30.When you and your colleagues tried to reapply to the Labour Party they
:52:31. > :52:35.did not want you back, so why do them favours now? Element there are
:52:36. > :52:44.two Labour parties. Jeremy's socialist manifesto, and a machinery
:52:45. > :52:48.of the Labour Party preventing thousands of people... I hope to
:52:49. > :52:51.reapply on June the 9th to Bremen Mr Corbyn.
:52:52. > :52:54.to others and TUSC. With the help to to others and TUSC. With the help to
:52:55. > :52:59.reapply? Is that what it is about? I think if
:53:00. > :53:02.Jeremy wins on June the 8th could be quite a large are people who want to
:53:03. > :53:06.be part of a major change in Britain. Repeat those busy policies
:53:07. > :53:09.you discussed already in health service and schools and things, they
:53:10. > :53:13.are game changers, particularly for young people and they should be
:53:14. > :53:16.given the chance. Is really an admission of fever that
:53:17. > :53:20.over the years you have not broken through? It is still as you said all
:53:21. > :53:24.those years ago the party you have probably never heard of.
:53:25. > :53:27.We have had modest results but I think these elections will be closer
:53:28. > :53:32.than your or Andrew's guest was talking about, low turnout. There
:53:33. > :53:37.are some seats for example, without naming them, part of the country
:53:38. > :53:41.where I have stood, were depending how the Ukip vote collapses, looks
:53:42. > :53:44.like that is going to happen, but between Labour and Tories it will be
:53:45. > :53:47.close. I got nearly 2000 votes in the seat I stood in two years ago
:53:48. > :53:52.and I could be the difference between sending a Tory MP to
:53:53. > :53:57.Westminster or a Labour MP. And the point today, I spent some
:53:58. > :54:00.time this past week in North Birmingham, and the anti-austerity
:54:01. > :54:05.message, I can assure you, is something very much talked about on
:54:06. > :54:07.the streets there. Not just Brexit.
:54:08. > :54:11.This election is about a series of issues, the future of the country,
:54:12. > :54:15.and David his allies want to take the country back to the 1970s.
:54:16. > :54:19.Yes! By putting at risk all the things we
:54:20. > :54:23.have achieved over the last five or seven years. More people in work
:54:24. > :54:27.than ever before in this country. Enabling us to invest in public
:54:28. > :54:31.services like the NHS, like education, because we have a strong
:54:32. > :54:35.economy... That is what this election is about.
:54:36. > :54:39.Sorry, in the 1970s, a worker in a unionised factory in the Midlands
:54:40. > :54:42.could get a house on two or three times their wages. Young people
:54:43. > :54:50.today have to get eight or ten times an average wage. I would go back to
:54:51. > :54:53.the quality of the 1970s... Jeromy Corbyn. Rather than the 1870s with
:54:54. > :54:56.the Tories. There are colleagues of yours in the
:54:57. > :55:04.West Midlands another part of the country who take a view that an
:55:05. > :55:06.and Socialist Coalition is like a and Socialist Coalition is like a
:55:07. > :55:12.hole in their head as endorsement. I will not give an argument about
:55:13. > :55:15.the 1970s as I was born in 1980. But my colleagues are focused just on
:55:16. > :55:20.their campaigns and making sure that they are standing on our manifesto,
:55:21. > :55:23.and their local track record as MPs fighting for their constituencies,
:55:24. > :55:26.against the cuts we have seen under this Government, and I am surprised
:55:27. > :55:29.that James mentions funding in schools when he well knows that
:55:30. > :55:35.actually the funding formula proposed by the Conservative Party
:55:36. > :55:40.is going to mean large scale cuts, 50 out of 55 schools in central
:55:41. > :55:46.Bremen losing funding. With... Reign James said this is a
:55:47. > :55:52.one-off stand down against the Labour Party and I think that will
:55:53. > :55:57.count against Vanity reapplies. Isn't isn't the key one in this part
:55:58. > :56:00.of the country a decision by Ukip not to field candidates in key areas
:56:01. > :56:04.like North Birmingham where I was? That would have a really big impact
:56:05. > :56:07.on the chances of the Labour Party in some key areas.
:56:08. > :56:11.I think the decision of Ukip is to do with the lapsing of falling apart
:56:12. > :56:16.and losing financial backing. Seeing the Tory party take up many of its
:56:17. > :56:23.ideas. -- Ukip has collapsed. I think Jeromy appeals to working
:56:24. > :56:27.class voters, working class socialist people who wanted Brexit,
:56:28. > :56:32.and I think he actually made a mistake in the last year or so, with
:56:33. > :56:39.the referendum. He and I worked with Tony Benn in 1975... They always
:56:40. > :56:44.believe we wanted to get out of the Thatcherism on a continental scale
:56:45. > :56:52.and give working class factory is the priority. If they did that you
:56:53. > :56:54.could soak up the Ukip voters. In my constituency, Jeremy Corbyn's
:56:55. > :57:00.views about not believing in national defence and this country is
:57:01. > :57:01.going down like a lead balloon. On the TV programme 's earlier
:57:02. > :57:07.today... I understand that that is the paper
:57:08. > :57:11.trail the Conservative Party want to make but the Labour Party is
:57:12. > :57:16.committed... It is not a betrayal but the truth.
:57:17. > :57:21.We are in favour of Trident renewal. Is Jeremy Corbyn in favour of
:57:22. > :57:23.Trident renewal? I don't think he is.
:57:24. > :57:27.The Labour Party, look at our record on what will be in the manifesto on
:57:28. > :57:31.other important issues. other important issues.
:57:32. > :57:34.into office? into office?
:57:35. > :57:38.This'll be a close election. Started off with 23% Tory lead three weeks
:57:39. > :57:42.ago, a local elections translate that an 11% lead, and the manifesto
:57:43. > :57:46.everything divide for an look everything divide for an look
:57:47. > :57:48.forward to winning the election -- I look forward to Jeremy Corbyn
:57:49. > :57:49.winning the election on the 8th of June.
:57:50. > :57:51.Let's have an update on more of the developments
:57:52. > :57:55.Our round-up in 60 Seconds is brought to us today
:57:56. > :57:59.West Midlands Mayor Andy Street has chosen Conservative
:58:00. > :58:01.colleague Bob Sleigh, the leader of Solihull Council,
:58:02. > :58:07.Jeremy Corbyn received an unusual offer on his way to a stump
:58:08. > :58:16.What is it about politicians and bananas?
:58:17. > :58:18.Labour's Deputy Leader Tom Watson was forced to deny leaking
:58:19. > :58:20.the Labour manifesto when he was confronted
:58:21. > :58:28.In this aptly named street in Dudley North, voters seem
:58:29. > :58:30.to have things other than the General Election
:58:31. > :58:44.And former Prime Minister Gordon Brown was in Coventry to deliver
:58:45. > :58:46.a message to protect the region's car industry in the
:58:47. > :58:52.We cannot allow the car industry to have tariffs and taxes imposed
:58:53. > :58:55.on it simply because some people refuse to work with
:58:56. > :59:13.Yes, and much of what Gordon Brown was saying their chimes with the
:59:14. > :59:18.boss of jaguar Land Rover who is very concerned about keeping access
:59:19. > :59:25.to his company's biggest markets, the biggest market in Europe for
:59:26. > :59:29.them. Concerned as you are about the deal Theresa May is heading towards.
:59:30. > :59:34.The deal which Theresa May will get with the EU will be a process of two
:59:35. > :59:37.years of hard negotiations. The negotiations are compact and
:59:38. > :59:42.difficult and she will be wanting to protect the interests of the British
:59:43. > :59:45.car industry in order to get full access or as much access to the
:59:46. > :59:49.single market as possible. But the question is, there will be concise
:59:50. > :59:52.negotiations but we need a strong leadership in order to deliver the
:59:53. > :59:56.negotiations and get the best deal for the car industry.
:59:57. > :59:59.And you have the signal a willingness to play hardball
:00:00. > :00:03.whenever you go into the start of a negotiation.
:00:04. > :00:05.Yes, that may be true, but actually the problem for the Brexiteers is
:00:06. > :00:07.they have not yet considered the fact it will not just be the car
:00:08. > :00:24.sector that wants to try to protect its current status
:00:25. > :00:27.quo, which is money jobs depended on, it is another range of sectors
:00:28. > :00:29.as well, and the problem with Theresa May saying simply, Brexit
:00:30. > :00:32.means Brexit, Izzy is not engaging with the issues and on down the
:00:33. > :00:34.track the food industry and the Bar industry will want proper answers
:00:35. > :00:36.otherwise we will start to lose support in constituencies up and
:00:37. > :00:37.down the country. The clock has beaten us.
:00:38. > :00:39.My thanks to Shabana Mahmood and James Morris.
:00:40. > :00:41.Finally from me, after all this talk of low turnouts,
:00:42. > :00:45.You may not want to be, but if you do, you have one
:00:46. > :00:48.week left to register, or to apply for a postal
:00:49. > :00:52.The deadline is a week tomorrow, and you can do it either online
:00:53. > :00:54.or by post to your local electoral registration office.
:00:55. > :00:56.Before this programme turns into a public information announcement,
:00:57. > :01:05.emotive subject and we have run out of time.
:01:06. > :01:10.On Thursday nominations closed in the 650 parliamentary
:01:11. > :01:12.seats across the country, so now we know exactly who's
:01:13. > :01:19.We've been analysing the parties' candidates to find out
:01:20. > :01:21.what they might tell us about the make-up of the House
:01:22. > :01:26.Well, we know Theresa May is committed to delivering Brexit and
:01:27. > :01:31.analysis of Conservative candidates has shown that
:01:32. > :01:34.in their top 100 target seats, 37 candidates supported leave
:01:35. > :01:42.during last year's referendum campaign
:01:43. > :01:44.and 20 supported remain; 43 have not made public
:01:45. > :01:50.In the last parliament, the vast majority of Labour MPs
:01:51. > :01:52.were hostile to Jeremy Corbyn so how supportive are Labour
:01:53. > :01:59.Well, of 50 of Labour's top 100 target seats
:02:00. > :02:01.17 candidates have expressed support for Mr Corbyn.
:02:02. > :02:06.20 candidates supported Owen Smith in last year's leadership contest
:02:07. > :02:10.or have expressed anti-Corbyn sentiment, and
:02:11. > :02:16.If they won those, the Labour benches would be
:02:17. > :02:18.marginally more sympathetic to Mr Corbyn than they are now.
:02:19. > :02:21.What do the figures tell us about where the other
:02:22. > :02:24.Well, the Lib Dems have decided not to stand against the Greens
:02:25. > :02:26.in Brighton Pavilion, and are fielding 629
:02:27. > :02:29.candidates this year - that's two fewer than 2015.
:02:30. > :02:33.The number of Ukip candidates has fallen dramatically.
:02:34. > :02:39.They are standing in 247 fewer constituencies than 2015,
:02:40. > :02:41.throwing their support behind solidly pro-Brexit Tories
:02:42. > :02:45.in some areas such as Lewes and Norfolk North.
:02:46. > :02:49.The Greens are fielding 103 fewer candidates
:02:50. > :03:00.than at the last election, standing down to help
:03:01. > :03:06.other progressive candidates in some places.
:03:07. > :03:19.The most liking statistic is the demise in Ukip candidates, is this
:03:20. > :03:25.their swansong? And I think so. It is remarkable how few Ukip
:03:26. > :03:29.candidates are standing. It is hard to see they will suddenly revive in
:03:30. > :03:39.the next couple of years. I think this is probably the end. Frank
:03:40. > :03:43.Luntz mentioned the fragmentation of the left was a feature of this
:03:44. > :03:46.election, but also there is the consolidation of the right, and if
:03:47. > :03:51.you take the things together that could explain why the polls are
:03:52. > :03:56.where they are. Absolutely, that's precisely what happened at the start
:03:57. > :04:01.of the 1980s, the right was incredibly united and that's when we
:04:02. > :04:08.started talking about majorities of over 100 or so. No matter what the
:04:09. > :04:12.size of Theresa May's majority, it will be the total collapse of Ukip,
:04:13. > :04:18.but not just because we are now leaving the EU and that was their
:04:19. > :04:22.only reason for being, but a whole lot of people voted for Ukip because
:04:23. > :04:30.they felt the Tories were no longer listening. Theresa May has given the
:04:31. > :04:33.impression that she is listening, and that is the biggest possible
:04:34. > :04:41.thing that could happen to the Tory vote. Fragmentation of the left,
:04:42. > :04:48.consolidation of the right? It's one of the lessons that is never learnt,
:04:49. > :04:53.it happened in the 1980s, it doesn't take much for the whole thing to
:04:54. > :04:58.fracture so now you have on the centre-left the SNP, the Labour
:04:59. > :05:03.Party, the Greens, the Liberal Democrats all competing for the same
:05:04. > :05:07.votes and when you have, fleetingly perhaps, large numbers coalescing on
:05:08. > :05:12.the right in one party, there is only going to be one outcome. It
:05:13. > :05:18.happens regularly. It doesn't mean the Tories haven't got their own
:05:19. > :05:22.fragility. Two years ago, David Cameron and George Osborne the
:05:23. > :05:26.dominant figures, neither are in Parliament now which is a symptom of
:05:27. > :05:32.the fragility this election is disguising. Mrs May's position in a
:05:33. > :05:37.way reminds me of Mrs Thatcher in the 1980s, I won't be outflanked on
:05:38. > :05:41.the right, Nicolas Sarkozy in France, I won't be outflanked on the
:05:42. > :05:45.right, so the National Front didn't get through either timed he ran to
:05:46. > :05:51.the second round on like this time, and now Mrs May on Brexit won't be
:05:52. > :05:56.outflanked Iver and as a result has seen off right flank. And also she
:05:57. > :05:58.is looking to the left as well with some of the state interventions.
:05:59. > :06:02.What was interesting about the analysis you showed a few minutes
:06:03. > :06:07.ago was the number of Tory candidates who have apparently not
:06:08. > :06:11.declared which way they voted in the referendum, and you would have
:06:12. > :06:16.thought if this election was all about Brexit, as some would claim,
:06:17. > :06:20.that would become an unsustainable position, and actually more it's
:06:21. > :06:25.about leadership. But the point that I'm now hearing from a number of
:06:26. > :06:31.Labour candidates that they are seeing Tory leaflets that don't even
:06:32. > :06:36.have the Tory candidate's name on them, it is just about Theresa May.
:06:37. > :06:41.I am glad they are keeping to the law because by law they have to put
:06:42. > :06:47.it on. It has been harder for some of the smaller parties too because
:06:48. > :06:53.of the speed of the election being called. We have the manifesto is
:06:54. > :06:57.coming out this week. I think Labour Forshaw on Tuesday, we are not yet
:06:58. > :07:01.sure when the Tories will bring bears out. I suggest one thing, it
:07:02. > :07:09.will at least for people like me bring an end to the question you
:07:10. > :07:13.will have to wait for the manifesto. And Rebecca Long baby will never
:07:14. > :07:22.have that excuse again, isn't it wonderful! She is not the only one.
:07:23. > :07:28.When you are trying to take the north and Midlands from Labour, I
:07:29. > :07:33.would go to one or the other. For me, I can barely hold back my
:07:34. > :07:36.excitement over the Tory manifesto. This will be, I think, the most
:07:37. > :07:45.important day for the British government for the next five years.
:07:46. > :07:50.That wasn't irony there? You actually meant that? I'm not even
:07:51. > :07:57.being cynical at all on Sunday Politics! This is a huge day and
:07:58. > :08:02.it's because I think we will see... I don't think Mrs May will play it
:08:03. > :08:07.safe and I don't think we will get the broadbrush stuff that she might
:08:08. > :08:12.be advised to do. I think she will lay out precisely what you want to
:08:13. > :08:16.do over the next five years and take some big risks. Then finally after a
:08:17. > :08:20.year of this guessing and theorising, we will finally work out
:08:21. > :08:23.what Mrs May is all about. She will say she doesn't want the next
:08:24. > :08:27.parliament to be all about Brexit, though she knows that's the next
:08:28. > :08:31.important thing she has to deliver in some way, so she gets a mandate
:08:32. > :08:42.for that if the polls are right but she
:08:43. > :08:46.does have very different ideas from Mr Cameron about how to run a
:08:47. > :08:49.country. She will I assume one to mandate for what these different
:08:50. > :08:51.ideas are. Otherwise there is no point in holding an early election.
:08:52. > :08:55.You will get a majority, but if you get a mandate to carry on
:08:56. > :08:58.implementing the Cameron and Osborne manifesto it would be utterly
:08:59. > :09:01.pointless. I agree, it is the pivotal event of the election and it
:09:02. > :09:05.will be interesting to see the degree to which she expands on the
:09:06. > :09:10.line which interests me about its time to look at the good that
:09:11. > :09:17.government can do. Because in a way this moves the debate on in UK
:09:18. > :09:20.politics from, from 97 the Blair Brown governments were insecure
:09:21. > :09:25.about arguing about the role of government. Cameron Osborne
:09:26. > :09:29.government similarly so, so here you have a Labour Party talking about
:09:30. > :09:33.the role of government and the state, and Tory leader apparently
:09:34. > :09:38.doing so was well. I think that will be really interesting to see whether
:09:39. > :09:43.it is fleshed out in any significant way. And it is not a natural Tory
:09:44. > :09:51.message. Harold Macmillan talked about the role of the state, Ted
:09:52. > :09:55.Heath Mark two was pretty big on the state, the industrial policy and so
:09:56. > :09:59.on, and even if it is not thought to be that Tory, does she get away with
:10:00. > :10:04.it because she deliver such a big victory if that's what she does
:10:05. > :10:10.deliver? Just inject a little note of scepticism, I wonder how much of
:10:11. > :10:18.this is authentically Theresa May. I was interested to and talk to
:10:19. > :10:21.someone who used to sit in cabinet meetings during which Theresa May
:10:22. > :10:24.never expressed an opinion on anything outside the Home Office
:10:25. > :10:33.briefs. Other ministers were roving all over their colleagues' briefs.
:10:34. > :10:40.So where are the ideas coming from? I think we can point to Nick
:10:41. > :10:45.Timothy. One of her closest advisers in Downing Street. It will be
:10:46. > :10:52.interesting to see how that evolves. On Thursday I think we will all be
:10:53. > :11:01.talking about something called Urdington Toryism. Urdington is the
:11:02. > :11:06.suburb of Birmingham where Nick Timothy comes from, who is very much
:11:07. > :11:11.Theresa May's policy brain and leading inspiration. Urdington
:11:12. > :11:16.Toryism is about connecting the party with traditional working class
:11:17. > :11:20.voters, and their belief to do that is not just taking away government
:11:21. > :11:25.out of their lives but showing them that government can actually help
:11:26. > :11:36.their lives. It can be a force for good to rebuild the trust. A lot of
:11:37. > :11:40.what Mrs May talks about is all... It is talk and then a lot of it
:11:41. > :11:49.suddenly goes by the wayside. What happened to worker directors on the
:11:50. > :11:53.boards. It is designed to appeal to that constituency and then nothing
:11:54. > :11:58.happens. She had an excuse before in the sense that it wasn't in the 2015
:11:59. > :12:02.manifesto and she had a small majority so therefore she arguably
:12:03. > :12:07.had to water down some of the stuff for example in her Tory conference
:12:08. > :12:11.speech, which had a lot of this active government material in it. If
:12:12. > :12:16.she puts it in the manifesto, it is a sign she plans to do it and will
:12:17. > :12:20.have no excuse if she then gets nervous afterwards because it will
:12:21. > :12:25.be in there. If it wasn't for Brexit, this great overwhelming
:12:26. > :12:28.issue, I think this election will be seen as quite a significant
:12:29. > :12:33.development in terms of an argument around the role of government,
:12:34. > :12:38.much-needed. But Brexit unfortunately overshadows it all. As
:12:39. > :12:42.much as we like our arguments over the role of government we will hear
:12:43. > :12:50.strong and stable, stable and strong ad nauseam, aren't we? Absolutely,
:12:51. > :12:56.and we heard the same old lines from the Labour Party as well so they are
:12:57. > :12:59.all at it. It will be a fascinating week, stop talking it down! Thanks
:13:00. > :13:02.to our panel. The Daily Politics will be
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