:01:20. > :01:23.In the West: Too small and not enough of them. Couples are
:01:23. > :01:33.struggling to find a house they can afford that's bigger than a rabbit
:01:33. > :01:33.
:01:33. > :35:19.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2025 seconds
:35:19. > :35:23.hutch. Can our councils finally Welcome to the Sunday politics here
:35:23. > :35:27.in the West. If you are thinking of buying a home in the West it will
:35:27. > :35:32.cost a fortune if you can get a mortgage in the first place. Today
:35:32. > :35:36.we are asking if you need to be building begat and more houses for
:35:36. > :35:41.the growing need. We talk to one councillor he says we must build to
:35:41. > :35:46.protect our children's future. Talking of houses, welcome to my
:35:46. > :35:56.humble abode. Let me introduce my tenants. They are both grammar-
:35:56. > :36:00.
:36:00. > :36:07.school boys. The Conservative MP for Tewkesbury. Donald used to be
:36:07. > :36:13.on shaky ground in Bath, but in the last election he doubled his Lib
:36:14. > :36:20.Dem seat. Now they are in government together. You are like
:36:20. > :36:25.brothers, really, aren't you? A big debate I want to talk about this
:36:26. > :36:31.week. The proposed cap of �26,000 on benefits. Don Foster, do you
:36:31. > :36:36.think it is a good idea? I think it is a good idea. I think the public
:36:36. > :36:40.at large except that it cannot be right for somebody on benefits to
:36:40. > :36:45.be getting substantially more than a family that goes out to work. The
:36:45. > :36:50.problem we have got is, how do we get from where we are now to the
:36:50. > :36:54.imposition of the benefit cap. There will be a number of problems.
:36:54. > :36:59.So Lord Ashdown is wrong when he says it should not be imposed? Yes,
:36:59. > :37:03.I think it is wrong. The issue for me is transition arrangements. What
:37:03. > :37:10.we have not had enough from the government is what they are
:37:10. > :37:15.planning to do to resolve undoubted difficulties. There seems to be
:37:15. > :37:20.large public support for this? is something that has been building
:37:20. > :37:24.for decades and nobody has done anything about it. I get a lot of
:37:24. > :37:28.letters from people saying they have worked all of their lives and
:37:28. > :37:32.fought in the war and are so much worse off than people who have done
:37:32. > :37:36.nothing and on benefits. A lot of people on benefits through no fault
:37:36. > :37:43.of their own, but we have to make sure that nurses and teachers are
:37:43. > :37:48.not worse off. Do you know rich people on benefits? It depends what
:37:48. > :37:54.you call a benefit. Housing benefit is termed as a benefit so yes,
:37:54. > :37:59.there are some. The important thing to remember is someone has to earn
:37:59. > :38:04.�35,000 per year and, only 26,000. There are many teachers and nurses
:38:04. > :38:09.that do not and that money. This is what the debate is about.
:38:09. > :38:13.First, let's cut through estate agent will fall. If you want to buy
:38:13. > :38:17.a new home it will cost a bomb and that is if you can get a mortgage.
:38:17. > :38:21.For years, prices have been going up and rooms have been getting
:38:21. > :38:29.smaller. Local councils are now trying to sort out this problem by
:38:29. > :38:34.allowing new homes to be built. Jem and Gordon of first-time buyers.
:38:34. > :38:39.Like many, they cannot get on the housing ladder. We were mainly
:38:39. > :38:45.looking at two bedroom houses around �250,000. There are not many
:38:45. > :38:50.of them and not in very good locations. I just don't understand
:38:50. > :38:55.why they have to put them so that everyone is so on top of each other.
:38:55. > :39:01.I feel that all of the new estate, you are literally living so close
:39:01. > :39:05.together with no parking. From Whitehall to a village hall may you.
:39:05. > :39:10.Councillors across the West are now deciding where over half a million
:39:10. > :39:14.new homes will be built in a way region over the next 20 years.
:39:14. > :39:21.People say, what does sustainability mean. It means many
:39:21. > :39:25.things. The one thing it does mean is do not cheat on your children.
:39:25. > :39:29.We do not have a robust plan and a cheating the children of the future.
:39:29. > :39:34.We should not do that. For those living in villages where new
:39:34. > :39:39.housing developments are planned, there are real concerns. We are not
:39:39. > :39:43.NMB because what we are more concerned about is the potential
:39:43. > :39:48.for such a development on these green fields throttling the life
:39:48. > :39:53.out of Stroud town which is where we are all attached. We have had
:39:53. > :39:56.from our couple. They are worried about the size and price of these
:39:56. > :40:00.homes and this is something a former West MP is warning
:40:00. > :40:05.councillors to think about when drawing up plans. We need homes.
:40:05. > :40:09.There are people desperate to get into homes. The danger is, if you
:40:09. > :40:13.go for a large-scale development, they are not popular and often you
:40:13. > :40:18.are building the wrong sort of houses in the wrong places. I have
:40:18. > :40:23.always been in favour of dispersal. We need to make sure that we get
:40:23. > :40:28.housing for older people and younger people in the right place.
:40:28. > :40:35.What we are being asked for our views on us and plums, chairman and
:40:35. > :40:39.Gordon's search for their first affordable home goes on.
:40:39. > :40:46.An experience shared by many couples. Derek Davies is there
:40:46. > :40:50.councillor in charge in cheeks brief. At a stately age of 81, he
:40:50. > :40:55.is one of our most senior politicians. What can you do to
:40:55. > :41:02.help young couples in your area? They want a nice affordable house
:41:02. > :41:08.and not too small. Yes, well it is a case of haves and have-nots. If
:41:08. > :41:13.you live in a house, you are and how. If you are homeless, you are a
:41:13. > :41:19.have not. What we are trying to do is cut down and build more housing.
:41:19. > :41:24.The only way you can do that is by having a 20 year plans which we
:41:24. > :41:29.have. We have been talking about this for years. Why has this not
:41:29. > :41:34.happened? Perhaps you can blame previous governments. Not your
:41:34. > :41:39.government? Our government has made amazing move so far. So far they
:41:39. > :41:43.have taken 1000 pages of planning guidelines and scrap them and
:41:43. > :41:48.replace them with about 50 pages. These guidelines are to give
:41:48. > :41:55.planning permission. Very often it is difficult for local councillors
:41:55. > :42:00.because there is a lot of local opposition. Not a lot. Few have not.
:42:00. > :42:07.What do you mean? What I mean by that is that if you ask anybody
:42:07. > :42:15.that says we do not want these houses all sorts of various reasons,
:42:15. > :42:19.I call those the haves. The weaker minority, and they are the minority,
:42:19. > :42:25.they are homeless or without a satisfactory home, they do not have
:42:26. > :42:30.a voice. I get it. Let's bring in the MPs here. You often the same
:42:30. > :42:35.patch, how many homes do you think I needed? It is difficult to put a
:42:35. > :42:40.figure on the next 20 years. I used to work with homeless people before
:42:40. > :42:45.I went in Parliament. It is not a bad enough houses, it is about the
:42:45. > :42:50.economy. What happened at to the credit crunch building societies
:42:51. > :42:55.and banks lend far too much money. That had the effect of pushing up
:42:55. > :42:59.the price of property to an unsustainable level. That is one of
:42:59. > :43:07.the problems and needs correcting. Don Foster, how do you build houses
:43:07. > :43:11.in Bath? One of the things that we have had is that the government has
:43:11. > :43:15.provided additional financial support. We have already heard
:43:15. > :43:19.about the support in terms of planning. They have also made
:43:19. > :43:24.government land available so in Bath we are going to have three
:43:24. > :43:30.disused MoD sites where a lot of housing, probably around 1500 homes,
:43:30. > :43:35.will go there. We are developing Western Riverside as well. If you
:43:35. > :43:39.go to a place like Bath, at the moment it will cost you 14 times
:43:39. > :43:44.the average salary to be able to pay for the average price house.
:43:44. > :43:47.That puts the finances out of the market. Let's bring you back him.
:43:47. > :43:53.Is it that there are not enough houses or people cannot afford
:43:53. > :43:58.them? Well, we have not built in of houses over the last 20 years. That
:43:58. > :44:04.puts the price up and as a result, developers have been stagnant, that
:44:04. > :44:10.is what we are taking on now, a stagnant position. What we have to
:44:10. > :44:13.do is use innovative ideas on top of what the government has done.
:44:13. > :44:19.someone complains about a housing estate on a green belt, are you
:44:19. > :44:23.going to say on your bike? Or are you going to say yes, I support
:44:23. > :44:27.she? Of course we have to build in the right area. Coming from
:44:27. > :44:31.Tewkesbury and though the damage that can be done to the green belt
:44:31. > :44:35.and the flood risk area. We had terrible floods four years ago
:44:35. > :44:39.where people were living in caravans as a result. Derek is
:44:39. > :44:44.right, the number of houses being built did drop off and it started
:44:44. > :44:48.at the point of the credit crunch. There were no changes in planning
:44:48. > :44:54.at that time, it was a change in the economy. That caused the
:44:55. > :44:58.problem. Derek, you are right. We will leave it at that last word.
:44:58. > :45:03.Thank you for coming in. For anyone angry anti-Europeans
:45:03. > :45:08.meddling in our affairs, it has been a big week. David Cameron
:45:08. > :45:17.toured Europe including a stop in Strasbourg to put the Court of
:45:17. > :45:21.Human Rights in its place. At least that is one version of events.
:45:21. > :45:25.They laid on a red carpet in Strasbourg this week even if the
:45:25. > :45:30.visitor was threatening to give them a carpeting. David Cameron
:45:30. > :45:34.spent two hours at the Council of Europe which controls the Court of
:45:34. > :45:39.Human Rights. Some of his MPs were here all week. Joining
:45:39. > :45:43.representatives from 47 countries which are members. These West
:45:43. > :45:48.Country Conservatives are aware of sceptical views back in their
:45:48. > :45:52.constituencies. We are just talking about press coverage in the UK.
:45:52. > :45:58.pieces in the Mail and Telegraph. Bob water leads the British
:45:58. > :46:02.delegation. He only started a year ago and reckons reform is overdue.
:46:02. > :46:07.The cost of this place is astronomical. If you say to people
:46:07. > :46:12.in Somerset or Bristol, what do you know about the Court of Human
:46:12. > :46:16.Rights, the experience for them is pretty Honourable. You see clerics
:46:16. > :46:21.who should not be allowed out, you see a lot of other things and think
:46:21. > :46:27.it is mad. It all comes from here. The message that we have to put
:46:27. > :46:31.across as the British is that this has to change. But Wednesday, David
:46:31. > :46:35.Cameron was accompanied by Bob water his role is even more
:46:35. > :46:39.significant at the moment. Prime Minister asked me to be
:46:39. > :46:42.leader of the UK delegation. The important work that needs to be
:46:42. > :46:47.done. Now with the British chairmanship, the important work
:46:47. > :46:50.that is going to be done on the reform agenda. Britain is in the
:46:50. > :46:59.chair for six months which is why David Cameron was here making his
:46:59. > :47:03.big speech. The court should ensure the right and not act as a small
:47:03. > :47:08.claims court. Some of those watching were not impressed.
:47:08. > :47:12.Prime Minister has gone for a GP it. He has come here looking for
:47:12. > :47:17.favourable headlines because we agree with the. He is making, but
:47:17. > :47:21.it does not advance the agenda for human rights in our continent for
:47:21. > :47:26.one single centimetre. But there was warm applause, not just from
:47:26. > :47:29.West Country Tories. David Cameron's performance seemed to go
:47:29. > :47:33.well because he talked about making things better and not pulling
:47:33. > :47:37.Britain out. The government are talking to two
:47:37. > :47:47.very different audiences. At home they want to sound tough, over here
:47:47. > :47:49.
:47:49. > :47:54.it is about diplomacy -- diplomacy. Twilight in Strasbourg and Bob
:47:54. > :47:58.water is among the big no trees in this service to honour the war dead.
:47:58. > :48:02.This area was badly effected by World War Two. To help prevent
:48:03. > :48:06.future conflicts, the country has resolved to work together.
:48:06. > :48:11.Council of Europe brings together the whole of Europe and the whole
:48:11. > :48:15.of Europe on the basis that we never want to see as having to
:48:15. > :48:20.create war memorials like this a game. No one would argue with the
:48:20. > :48:25.ideals, but there is disagreement with how best to achieve them.
:48:25. > :48:30.Today we are joined by Caroline BT, then manager of Bristol refugee
:48:30. > :48:35.rights. Why do we need the European Court
:48:35. > :48:41.of Human Rights, do you think? think it is crucial to have some
:48:41. > :48:46.kind of independent oversight of areas where the perceived national
:48:46. > :48:50.interest might clash with the rights and freedoms are very
:48:50. > :48:55.vulnerable people living in this country. There is a perception it
:48:55. > :49:00.is used a lot. The Prime Minister talked about the European Court of
:49:00. > :49:04.Human Rights in the tribunal. Is that your experience? Not at all.
:49:04. > :49:09.It is very difficult to get a case to European Court. What is
:49:09. > :49:14.important now is that immigration judges have a mind to the European
:49:14. > :49:20.Court rulings and will make decisions ultimately to support
:49:20. > :49:25.people with those rights. For instance, in the last quarter there
:49:25. > :49:31.were two Rawlings to show that detentions of mentally ill people
:49:31. > :49:35.was not only unlawful, but inhuman and degrading. That his article 3.
:49:35. > :49:39.What people are concerned about is that human rights can become a
:49:39. > :49:44.tyranny whether rights of the individual are looked after by the
:49:44. > :49:49.rest of society has to lump it. The example of that is the cleric he
:49:49. > :49:52.wants to cause damage but cannot be deported. It is a pity that people
:49:52. > :49:58.see it like that. The point of human rights is that they should be
:49:58. > :50:02.accessible to everybody. It is about freedom and safety for all.
:50:02. > :50:08.Why does David Cameron launched this against the European Court of
:50:08. > :50:13.Human Rights? I think he feels that it is involving itself in what our
:50:13. > :50:17.individual and small cases that nobody would have an objection to
:50:17. > :50:21.the articles in the original declaration. It was a noble aim.
:50:21. > :50:25.But what has happened is that it has gone way beyond its original
:50:25. > :50:31.remit. So we have all these cases which have been heard and they set
:50:31. > :50:35.a precedent. It is very frustrating. In the original articles, there
:50:35. > :50:39.were the rights of governments to determine their own policies.
:50:39. > :50:44.Foster, how did you feel when David Cameron went to Strasbourg this
:50:44. > :50:50.week and let loose at them? He was absolutely right to say that we
:50:50. > :50:55.need to reform it. It has 150,000 case backlog. We need to have
:50:55. > :50:58.higher quality judges. We need to give it more resources and would
:50:58. > :51:04.probably need to have more cases dealt with in their own countries.
:51:04. > :51:09.Having said that, nobody is saying we need to get rid of it. It is
:51:09. > :51:12.crucially important we have a body covering 47 countries that ensures
:51:13. > :51:17.we can do something, after all we invented the thing, it was
:51:17. > :51:21.Churchill pushing for it, that we have something where countries less
:51:21. > :51:26.good on Human Rights, foreigners since Russia and former Soviet
:51:26. > :51:30.countries, can be held to account. The point is that if we say we do
:51:31. > :51:35.not want to obey that particular role, when Russia breaks one, they
:51:35. > :51:40.can say the same thing. The court was set up to oversee what was
:51:40. > :51:45.going on. What has happened is it is getting involved in small
:51:45. > :51:49.matters which it was not set up today. Nobody would disagree with
:51:49. > :51:54.the original article, but it has gone way beyond that now. This
:51:54. > :52:00.tends to happen. Don is absolutely right, it is to focus on what it is
:52:00. > :52:05.there to do. It has 150,000 cases waited to be heard. They say they
:52:05. > :52:10.are a victim of their own success. The third point is also enforcing
:52:10. > :52:14.it. When it actually comes to decisions. That is another weakness
:52:15. > :52:17.of present arrangements. Thank you for coming in and talking to us
:52:17. > :52:25.today. So what has been the top of the
:52:25. > :52:31.political charts this week? Here is our 62nd round up.
:52:31. > :52:34.This is the West's own spaghetti Junction. It is getting and �90
:52:34. > :52:40.million facelift. The government says it will make journeys safer
:52:40. > :52:44.and shorter. These are some of the 13,000 campaigners who are against
:52:45. > :52:48.a new nuclear power station being built in Somerset. They submitted
:52:48. > :52:53.objections this week. Policing in Gloucestershire will be
:52:53. > :52:58.pushed to a cliff edge if the force of forced to make more cuts.
:52:58. > :53:02.risk is that it starts to impact on frontline policing.
:53:02. > :53:06.The power of the Bristol Channel help generate energy of the future.
:53:06. > :53:13.Companies in the West are being encouraged to lead the way in
:53:13. > :53:19.designing new age technology. And politics is all about finding a
:53:20. > :53:27.voice. We say a final farewell to Western's town crier. He won the
:53:27. > :53:32.town crier complete tissue and with his distinctive voice. -- town
:53:32. > :53:38.crier competition. Another hectic week. Let's talk
:53:38. > :53:41.about one of those issues that came up there. Policing. That warning by
:53:41. > :53:51.the Chief Constable, they are heading to the clifftop because of
:53:51. > :53:56.cuts. You are the party of law and order, aren't you? We are. By meet
:53:56. > :54:03.Tony regularly and he says what he said on the film. I say to him that
:54:03. > :54:08.we have to make cut somewhere. I know Conservative politicians keep
:54:08. > :54:12.going on about that, but it is a fact of life. What Tony has been
:54:12. > :54:17.active in doing is making sure there are more police on the beat,
:54:17. > :54:22.on the front line. He has been very successful. Don, people will be
:54:22. > :54:27.cross if they lose visible policing. I think people will be cross if
:54:27. > :54:31.they see crime rising. One important thing is that we try to
:54:31. > :54:35.address the causes of crime. One thing I raised following the riots
:54:35. > :54:39.with the Prime Minister on the floor of the House was that we all
:54:39. > :54:43.know that a high percentage of crime is caused by totally
:54:43. > :54:47.dysfunctional families. Instead of saying, yes that is true, and doing
:54:47. > :54:55.nothing, the government has bought a vast amount of money in the to
:54:55. > :55:00.work with various agencies to deal with that. We all suit need to do
:55:00. > :55:05.more smarter policing. Half of the policing still does not have the