0:01:26 > 0:01:31In the West: Can sing sorry really cut the likelihood of criminals
0:01:31 > 0:01:41reoffending? We meet one woman who says meeting the boy who burgled or
0:01:41 > 0:01:41
0:01:41 > 0:30:16Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1714 seconds
0:30:16 > 0:30:20End this week Sunday Politics and the West: The power of saying sorry.
0:30:20 > 0:30:25We hear from politicians to think the way to cut reoffending rates is
0:30:25 > 0:30:29to get to meet offenders meeting their victims face to face. But is
0:30:29 > 0:30:32it a softer option than going to jail?
0:30:32 > 0:30:40Welcome to the little prison cell that as the Sunday Politics. There
0:30:40 > 0:30:44is no getting out until they answer our questions. Robert Buckland, a
0:30:44 > 0:30:50Conservative MP for Swindon. He is a lawyer by trade and has been a
0:30:50 > 0:30:54judge. And for Labour this week, Mark Dempsey. Welcome to your boss.
0:30:55 > 0:30:59I want to talk about unemployment before we get started. Swindon has
0:31:00 > 0:31:05been highlighted as a black spot. What has gone wrong? There is a
0:31:05 > 0:31:12party of Swindon where we have a large number of young people who
0:31:12 > 0:31:15are not in work. The report was produced last week, I haven't
0:31:15 > 0:31:19meeting of the author's next Wigan Westminster to discuss ways about
0:31:19 > 0:31:25how we can implement some of the ways they have suggested to reach
0:31:25 > 0:31:29out to these young people. They are not the jobs. Swindon was the place
0:31:29 > 0:31:38where there was lots of manufacturing. There was negative
0:31:38 > 0:31:44mind you -- this is a big issue at the moment. We have seen youth
0:31:44 > 0:31:49unemployment going up to its highest levels since records began.
0:31:49 > 0:31:57The Conservatives in charge do not have a plan for the future economy
0:31:57 > 0:32:05of Swindon. We saw that N-word Investment -- inward investment
0:32:05 > 0:32:08earlier. We need to bring new jobs and businesses to the town as well.
0:32:08 > 0:32:11We will come back to the economy a waiter.
0:32:11 > 0:32:16If someone breaks into your house or vandalise is your car, how would
0:32:16 > 0:32:22you feel about meeting him face to face? The idea is to reform
0:32:23 > 0:32:32offenders by encouraging them to look the person they have harmed in
0:32:32 > 0:32:38the eye. One woman said an apology helped her to deal with the trauma.
0:32:38 > 0:32:43Your mind goes into a mess. It threw me completely. It frightens
0:32:44 > 0:32:49me. One night, this woman was woken by Hanoi's and her back garden. She
0:32:49 > 0:32:52went downstairs to find out she had been burgled. He then left her
0:32:53 > 0:32:57bicycle here and then walked here. The child a broken was just 13
0:32:57 > 0:33:02years old. Debbie agree to meet him face to face. She said she needed
0:33:02 > 0:33:06answers and one wanted them to say sorry. It was quite an emotional
0:33:06 > 0:33:14meeting because one of the things he took from me was an iPod.
0:33:14 > 0:33:23Everybody has got one. Somebody had given it to me when I was actually
0:33:23 > 0:33:29quite ill. And that has really just got to May. And when I said that,
0:33:29 > 0:33:33he said, I am so sorry. I wish I could do something for you.
0:33:33 > 0:33:37party was payback for a sentence is to pay their Benson her garden.
0:33:37 > 0:33:42have only got a small garden but he will have to come back and face
0:33:42 > 0:33:46make and realise if you do something you have to pay back.
0:33:46 > 0:33:51According to the Ministry of Justice, when that an offender says
0:33:51 > 0:33:57sorry there are less likely to commit another crime. So they want
0:33:57 > 0:34:04to imply into a -- implement a programme where offenders says
0:34:04 > 0:34:10sorry. We want to ensure more programmes for -- victims have a
0:34:10 > 0:34:14chance to voice the impact a crime has on them. We want to increase
0:34:14 > 0:34:18capacity to allow local areas to provide more effective
0:34:18 > 0:34:23opportunities. Swindon has been working with young offenders for
0:34:23 > 0:34:27some time. They have welcomed the move to extend the trial. We have
0:34:28 > 0:34:31been doing this with young people For many years very successfully. I
0:34:31 > 0:34:38believe there is a move now to including adults in the schemes. It
0:34:38 > 0:34:42is long overdue. Swindon's new just as panels will be run by local
0:34:42 > 0:34:46people and victims, leaving them to decide a profits sentences will
0:34:46 > 0:34:50low-level crimes like graffiti. But while our police forces are facing
0:34:50 > 0:34:55cuts to their budgets, warning of fewer police on our streets
0:34:55 > 0:35:02fighting crime, there may be ever more victims like Debbie left with
0:35:02 > 0:35:06a painful decision of whether to confront the demons face to face.
0:35:06 > 0:35:10Simon Evans as the antisocial behaviour manager For Swindon
0:35:10 > 0:35:15Borough Council. He was in charge at of bidding for the pilot area
0:35:15 > 0:35:20for the new neighbourhood justice panels. Will come a long. What
0:35:20 > 0:35:24would these justice panels do? are members of their community who
0:35:25 > 0:35:30are trained in how to deliver adjust his conference. Boss young
0:35:30 > 0:35:34people and adults who refer to them who have cost anti-social behaviour
0:35:34 > 0:35:42are all finding. A defender who would not get to the courts as a
0:35:42 > 0:35:46model to the panels and they will sign contracts. We have had
0:35:46 > 0:35:50magistrates for hundreds of years. We have a very important role to
0:35:50 > 0:35:53play in this. If people are coming to the panel's final low-level
0:35:53 > 0:35:57offending and then they're not complying with these acceptable
0:35:57 > 0:36:07behaviour contracts, we then have the courts and magistrates in the
0:36:07 > 0:36:13background who can deliver them more formal punishments. That woman
0:36:13 > 0:36:20talked about her eye. Being burgled. It meant a lot to her. -- hat iPod
0:36:20 > 0:36:24player. That is the call for the professionals to decide where that
0:36:24 > 0:36:29is going. It is about the victim meeting with the offender and
0:36:29 > 0:36:35telling them how it has affected them as a person. It sounds all
0:36:35 > 0:36:39very good. You are a barrister and you were a judge. Let me take you
0:36:39 > 0:36:45back to the riots last summer when a lot of young people they thought
0:36:45 > 0:36:48would get away with. The judges came down very hard. The select a
0:36:48 > 0:36:53way community sentences and the banks are not straight away. You
0:36:53 > 0:36:57could almost feel that shock and that writing stopped overnight. Is
0:36:57 > 0:37:03harsher just is not the answer? we are comparing apples with an
0:37:03 > 0:37:09than us. The riots were different and very serious incidents in
0:37:09 > 0:37:13British public life. What Simon is talking about and what I have been
0:37:14 > 0:37:19supporting is the sort of low-level crime that does cause real misery
0:37:19 > 0:37:28for a lot of residents. And this initiative will give local no birds
0:37:28 > 0:37:32control. A sense of ownership and a way to find solutions to problems
0:37:32 > 0:37:39that have been harming them for too long. A will thus be seen as a soft
0:37:39 > 0:37:43option? You know, it has a very important role to play. Where it
0:37:43 > 0:37:46has been trial in the youth offending team in Swindon, it has
0:37:46 > 0:37:51seen real results. We have seen a reduction of youth offending rates
0:37:51 > 0:37:54and crimes. I think it has great opportunity. But the bigger picture
0:37:54 > 0:37:58is that we have 16,000 police officers cut across the country and
0:37:58 > 0:38:04I think that is something communities across London and the
0:38:04 > 0:38:09country are worried about. I think that is a fair point. I do not
0:38:09 > 0:38:14accept that. In Wiltshire we have a commitment to community pulsing.
0:38:14 > 0:38:18Will show has been a well-managed police force. We have dedicated
0:38:18 > 0:38:22police officers and Swindon. It is not right to make general comments
0:38:22 > 0:38:27about police numbers when in fact it is about the effectiveness of
0:38:27 > 0:38:31the use of resources. One of the schemes is us a lot of victims do
0:38:31 > 0:38:35not want to take part. They do not want to see the young person who
0:38:35 > 0:38:40made their life a misery. Certainly, when it comes to more serious
0:38:40 > 0:38:44crimes, you cannot expect them to meet face to face. If there are
0:38:44 > 0:38:48more serious crimes, members of the community sitting on these finals,
0:38:49 > 0:38:54they will say this is too serious for this panel. We want to give us
0:38:54 > 0:38:59back to the courts when it belongs. Does not make the for up -- the
0:38:59 > 0:39:08victim feel good does it? research shows that 84% of victims
0:39:08 > 0:39:15to go through the process are very satisfied with it. That is how weak
0:39:15 > 0:39:23tell the community and get them involved in it. In her current
0:39:23 > 0:39:26criminal justice system we do not to that at the moment. One of the
0:39:26 > 0:39:31most effective methods as having the victim in front of the offender
0:39:31 > 0:39:37and telling them how it has affected them.
0:39:37 > 0:39:41The bulldozers have moved in to your full to raise up sink housing
0:39:41 > 0:39:47estate into the ground. It seems to be a desperate measure to deal with
0:39:47 > 0:39:57deprivation. Is the answer to rep these council estates down and
0:39:57 > 0:40:02start again? -- to rat down? Every town has an estate like this.
0:40:02 > 0:40:08Sometimes overlooked for decades. So what is the key to turning long-
0:40:08 > 0:40:12term deprivation into a long-term improvement? In your fault and
0:40:13 > 0:40:19extreme approach. Bill does think dozens of homes and starting again.
0:40:19 > 0:40:29Sindh charges as having �10 million spent on it by the local housing
0:40:29 > 0:40:31
0:40:31 > 0:40:40association. -- Saint Georges. are very interested in developing
0:40:40 > 0:40:46the relationship we have with our lamb -- tenants. We hope to secure
0:40:46 > 0:40:50long-term sustainable employment through this. But how can -- his
0:40:50 > 0:40:55estate was built to replace slum housing. The council you want to
0:40:55 > 0:41:01knock down and rebuild hundreds of homes. But until then, local people
0:41:01 > 0:41:06are coming up with ways to improve the area. Historically it has been
0:41:06 > 0:41:14quite a difficult community. But it seems to be coming together quite a
0:41:14 > 0:41:24lot more. And there are more things going on. In Highbridge, the police
0:41:24 > 0:41:25
0:41:25 > 0:41:32began by leading the way. It went from antisocial behaviour, drugs
0:41:32 > 0:41:37misuse,. It is having the trust and confidence of the committee and you
0:41:38 > 0:41:42have by having -- making sure that when they report something that you
0:41:42 > 0:41:47deal with a positively in the way they wanted del West. Hear what the
0:41:47 > 0:41:56police have started, the community has carried on and they are seeing
0:41:56 > 0:42:01it as a real success story. These young people are spending half-term
0:42:01 > 0:42:06improving their area. With the help of dedicated volunteers, like 74-
0:42:06 > 0:42:10year-old Margaret. If they do jobs and they get points which are
0:42:10 > 0:42:16turned to prizes and trips. The parents can also afford to sun and
0:42:16 > 0:42:23so we take over. It makes me feel as if I am still useful. -- cannot
0:42:23 > 0:42:27afford to take them. I feel very good about it. It helps the
0:42:27 > 0:42:33environment around Highbridge. Despite shores of community spirit,
0:42:33 > 0:42:43the problems on these estates remain very real. They are a long
0:42:43 > 0:42:52
0:42:52 > 0:42:57way from becoming desirable realistic. -- real estate.
0:42:57 > 0:43:05Will come along. Tell me about Arton Hill. The settlement of Arton
0:43:05 > 0:43:11hell. The estate you look after. are part of the estate but we are
0:43:11 > 0:43:15not legally responsible for the estate. Our own accountability it
0:43:15 > 0:43:19as an independent organisation is to the people on the estate.
0:43:19 > 0:43:28want to live their aspirations and life chances. We work with them on
0:43:28 > 0:43:31anything that we think at the time is going to help. How does your
0:43:31 > 0:43:35experience there translate to what may be done in other big estates
0:43:35 > 0:43:40across the West Country? There is no single solution. Every estate
0:43:40 > 0:43:44will have its own solution and will be based on the people that our
0:43:44 > 0:43:48there. Also the agencies that they are there and how well they work
0:43:48 > 0:43:53together. That will not be the same in a different estate. Millions of
0:43:53 > 0:43:56pounds have been spent in the estate for over the years. There
0:43:56 > 0:44:00are still very substantial problems there. There have been some good
0:44:00 > 0:44:08things about the millions of pounds and some bad things about the
0:44:08 > 0:44:13millions of pounds. So it is not just money? What is it then?
0:44:13 > 0:44:17think it is the people. If they have hope and if you can connect
0:44:17 > 0:44:26people to each other, then things will happen. I know that sounds
0:44:26 > 0:44:30vague, but that is what works. the big council estates, where they
0:44:30 > 0:44:35are a mistake? The important element for those big council
0:44:35 > 0:44:39estates, I represent one of those in Swindon, there is a community
0:44:39 > 0:44:43that still exists there. We have got our hands dirty in that
0:44:43 > 0:44:49community to try and rebuild them. There are many things that can be
0:44:49 > 0:44:53done. In one of the shopping centres in my mistake, it was left
0:44:53 > 0:44:59Park finished by their redevelopment project in the area.
0:44:59 > 0:45:05They got the developers and the council together. We got the idea
0:45:05 > 0:45:13resurfaced. Not many people expected us to do that. There is
0:45:13 > 0:45:18not much hope around at the moment. Not many jobs. Joanna hit on an
0:45:18 > 0:45:26important point. Self-esteem will come from within from help. Some
0:45:26 > 0:45:30were organisations and -- there are many organisations helping these
0:45:30 > 0:45:35communities. That without the job opportunities, then it becomes
0:45:35 > 0:45:44difficult. We are talking about youth unemployment. It has been a
0:45:44 > 0:45:49long-running problem. There has been a dislocation... Definitely in
0:45:49 > 0:45:56Swindon among other places. There has won a dislocation between
0:45:56 > 0:46:01skills people are getting in school and the jobs. I would like to move
0:46:01 > 0:46:07on. Joined-up has brought up the idea of not just throwing money at
0:46:07 > 0:46:16these estates. I think it is a variety of solutions. In some areas
0:46:16 > 0:46:22it has to be investment. The worry that I have is that some of those
0:46:22 > 0:46:26regeneration schemes are stalling. We have seen the abolition of the
0:46:26 > 0:46:28Regional Development Agencies. That regeneration is not happening and
0:46:28 > 0:46:34we need to get that regeneration happening for the benefit of
0:46:34 > 0:46:40communities. If you look around the estates, some people keep their
0:46:40 > 0:46:49properties beautiful. Others let them go to rack and ruin. It seems
0:46:49 > 0:46:55to me that it is the people, not the social problems. Hugely so. The
0:46:55 > 0:46:58area that I represent, you will find that in the all parts of the
0:46:58 > 0:47:02estate. They would regard themselves as part of a vibrant
0:47:02 > 0:47:06community. There is a small minority who still need to be
0:47:06 > 0:47:15addressed an adult. But I remain very optimistic that that can be
0:47:15 > 0:47:19done. I remain upbeat. On that upbeat note, we have to say thank
0:47:19 > 0:47:28you. There is never a dull weekend West
0:47:28 > 0:47:32Country politics. Here is a round- up in just 60 seconds.
0:47:32 > 0:47:37This is the muddy mess left on College Green and Bristol when the
0:47:37 > 0:47:44occupied movement left a few weeks ago. Rita feng alone is expected to
0:47:44 > 0:47:50cost taxpayers �4,000. Meanwhile 14 members of the Kampala squatting in
0:47:51 > 0:47:54a mansion in Clifton. -- of the camp. Jobless young people in the
0:47:54 > 0:47:58West have seen their struggle to find work turning into a worrying
0:47:58 > 0:48:04statistic. Swindon has been identified as a unemployment
0:48:04 > 0:48:09hotspot. Terrible really. No way of getting a job. Swindon residents
0:48:09 > 0:48:15are no longer going to be living in that dark. Street lights turned off
0:48:15 > 0:48:19last year are to be turned on at a cost of �30,000. And angry anti-
0:48:19 > 0:48:27nuclear protesters have set up camp for the second time in a week at
0:48:27 > 0:48:32the site in Somerset where nuclear reactors could be built. They're
0:48:32 > 0:48:37worried about the loss of local wildlife.
0:48:37 > 0:48:42That Was the Week That Was in just 60 seconds. Let's pick up on one of
0:48:42 > 0:48:47those stories. The squatters taking over a property in Bristol. And
0:48:47 > 0:48:52moves by their Government to crack down on it. I was on the committee
0:48:52 > 0:49:02they looked at it and the House of Commons. Now the House of Lords
0:49:02 > 0:49:02
0:49:02 > 0:49:07agree it should be criminalised. They are real Blyton because the
0:49:07 > 0:49:13real concern to residents and householders. There are lots of
0:49:13 > 0:49:19empty properties doing nothing and lots of homeless people. There is.
0:49:19 > 0:49:24I would not condone the squatting, I think that is wrong. And we
0:49:24 > 0:49:28support the crackdown on squatting. The tragedy was that we forgot
0:49:28 > 0:49:38about the story. This story was away need to rebuild our economy.
0:49:38 > 0:49:39
0:49:39 > 0:49:43We need to look beyond the banks, I think, towards a broader economy.
0:49:43 > 0:49:50On that no we have to leave it. That is all we have got time for
0:49:50 > 0:49:53this week. Thanks to her guests, Robert Buckland and Mark Dempsey.
0:49:53 > 0:49:58Sunday Politics continues with Andrew Neil in London. If you want