:01:26. > :01:29.In the West: The local Bishops who say they're under attack from
:01:29. > :01:39.people who want the Church and State to be separated. So should
:01:39. > :01:39.
:01:39. > :32:06.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1826 seconds
:32:06. > :32:13.those troublesome priests be forced He his religion under attack? Today
:32:13. > :32:21.we have key MacCarthy, an atheist is not afraid to take on the charge
:32:21. > :32:31.and Amanda Rigby who is the first ever woman to be chairman of Bath
:32:31. > :32:37.Football Club. Politics and sport, do the next? You need blind belief
:32:37. > :32:47.and to just keep going when the going gets tough. Both are to a
:32:47. > :32:48.
:32:48. > :32:55.certain extent by men's worlds? yes, but Lucas 2 -- looked at two
:32:55. > :33:01.is with us today. Who are is more likely to stay up? Nick Clegg or a
:33:01. > :33:06.Bath City football club? I think it is neither one nor the other!
:33:06. > :33:10.of the saddest and most poignant images of the week were the
:33:10. > :33:19.pictures of those six soldiers killed in Afghanistan, when you saw
:33:19. > :33:25.those, were you thinking Britain has to come out of their now?
:33:26. > :33:31.a very tough call to make. But at the moment I still believe it would
:33:31. > :33:38.be wrong to pull out before our mission there is accomplished. I
:33:38. > :33:42.think we can make more progress. I think to pull out now it would
:33:42. > :33:49.almost be seeing that the lives that have been spent so far were in
:33:49. > :33:56.vain. OK, thank you. On to our main talking point of the week, the role
:33:56. > :34:01.of religion in the State. Some say that Christian voices are being
:34:01. > :34:08.silenced in this country but others say even Christians should not have
:34:08. > :34:14.a role in deciding public policy. Gloucester Cathedral, an ancient
:34:14. > :34:18.building that inspires both believers and non-believers alike.
:34:18. > :34:24.For 500 years, the Church of England has been at the heart of
:34:24. > :34:34.the Establishment. It has also been the cause of many arguments. Now it
:34:34. > :34:35.
:34:35. > :34:44.is at the centre of a fresh debate. All remain standing for prayers.
:34:44. > :34:53.Prayers have always been in council meetings but is it the right place
:34:53. > :34:59.for a faith? Some say no. The Government is thinking of cutting
:34:59. > :35:04.the number of bishops in the House of Lords, is the Church's role been
:35:04. > :35:09.reduced? I think clearly the place of the charges under attack. I
:35:09. > :35:15.would doubt whether that is a general attack by a lot of people,
:35:15. > :35:19.I think it is a focused attack by a few people. Most people are
:35:19. > :35:25.resistant to seeing the Church this appealing from what nowadays is
:35:26. > :35:29.called the public square. You would expect a bishop to say that but he
:35:29. > :35:35.insists that the Church does have her role to play at be seat of
:35:35. > :35:41.power. It is important that they, spirituality should be represented
:35:41. > :35:47.in the second chamber. It is quite appropriate that it should be
:35:48. > :35:53.undertaken by the bishops of what is still be established Church.
:35:53. > :35:58.in an increasingly secular society, his face seen as an important part
:35:58. > :36:03.of our democracy? We have to have a moral basis, whether Christian or
:36:03. > :36:07.Muslim, we have to have a baseline to work from. I think it is very
:36:07. > :36:12.important that as an nominal Christian society we need to stand
:36:12. > :36:16.up for what Christians believe. whole basis of our democracy is the
:36:16. > :36:20.church, secular things such as Parliament and business remain
:36:20. > :36:25.separate. The Government says we are a Christian nation and is
:36:25. > :36:29.worried about religion being marginalised. He then Bristol there
:36:29. > :36:36.is a group that believes people of all religions and those who have no
:36:36. > :36:41.faith should be treated equally. I went to meet them in their place of
:36:41. > :36:49.worship, the pub. Our agenda is for everybody to be treated equally.
:36:49. > :36:55.For people with or without beliefs to have no exceptions on the
:36:55. > :37:00.Regards of your face. Religious people have a strong view, they
:37:00. > :37:05.tend to be divisive and exclusive and they tend to be very much
:37:05. > :37:10.setting their own agenda. But they say you should not talk religion or
:37:10. > :37:16.politics at the dinner table but it is Sunday lunchtime after all. We
:37:16. > :37:21.are joined by the Right Reverend Peter Christ, the Bishop of Bath
:37:21. > :37:25.and Wells. The bishops seem pretty united in saying that they are
:37:25. > :37:31.under attack but have they brought it on themselves by taking very
:37:31. > :37:41.strong stance on social issues like day marriage? I do not think we
:37:41. > :37:48.
:37:48. > :37:53.actually are under attack. -- gay marriage. I think sometimes we
:37:53. > :37:57.present ourselves as a little more conservative than we need to be.
:37:57. > :38:01.the Church trying to influence public policy? If we talk about
:38:01. > :38:06.Parliament and the way in which we are governed, the important thing
:38:06. > :38:10.is that we are still governed by the Queen in her role as monarch.
:38:10. > :38:16.When she becomes queen she is appointed. The sense is that she
:38:16. > :38:21.has given her permission to be Queen from God and therefore in a
:38:21. > :38:27.sense hour parliament has stemmed from that theological outlook.
:38:27. > :38:33.we are in 2012 now. Indeed we are and if we wanted to change that we
:38:33. > :38:42.would have to ask ourselves what are we going to do, but what are we
:38:42. > :38:50.going to do about the monarchy? us bring in hour other guests. Do
:38:50. > :38:58.you think bishops have a role in public life essentially on issues
:38:58. > :39:02.like the marriage? I do not think they should have a formal role in
:39:02. > :39:12.the House of Lords. They should just be treated like any other
:39:12. > :39:15.
:39:15. > :39:22.interest group. -- gay marriage. Should people take notice of their
:39:22. > :39:25.views? I would not want the Government to take account of the
:39:25. > :39:35.views of Cardle Brian but I think they have got a right to express
:39:35. > :39:42.
:39:42. > :39:45.their views. -- Cardinal O'Brian. agree be quite a lot with what has
:39:45. > :39:49.been said, I agree that absolutely the church and every other
:39:49. > :39:53.religious group has got a role to play in terms of giving the opinion
:39:53. > :39:56.and representing people but in terms of having a formal role in
:39:56. > :40:01.the House of Lords I think that should no longer continue. I think
:40:01. > :40:05.if we go we go quietly but we have to ask ourselves, we still have not
:40:05. > :40:08.resolved whether this is going to be a fully elected house and if it
:40:08. > :40:13.is people who are members of parliament need to watch out
:40:13. > :40:17.because they will put into that elected house all the political
:40:17. > :40:23.heavyweights they possibly can and I fear that the House of Lords will
:40:23. > :40:32.then lose something of its capacity to be a revising chamber. You could
:40:32. > :40:39.stand for election, I guess. The EC prayers every day, does that bother
:40:39. > :40:46.you? You have a choice of going in, I think it would be better if there
:40:46. > :40:50.was a chapel in Westminster Hall in Parliament and people who wanted to
:40:50. > :40:55.say prayers could go to a service there. The Priya is pretty bland,
:40:55. > :41:00.it just says, please give us help to make good decisions and not be
:41:00. > :41:05.driven by greed. Even if you do not believe, they are rather nice words.
:41:05. > :41:09.I think it goes to the heart of whether we have a secular society
:41:09. > :41:13.now or whether the Church of England has a particular role. I
:41:13. > :41:17.noticed in the film clip when the women said there must be a moral
:41:17. > :41:20.voice in politics I think that is actually quite offensive to those
:41:20. > :41:26.of us who are not religious but would like to feel we are quite
:41:26. > :41:32.moral people. Can you be a good person and not religious? Of course
:41:32. > :41:36.you can, I take that point. I come back to the issue of how we are
:41:36. > :41:46.established as an Asian and until we make up our minds about whether
:41:46. > :41:52.
:41:52. > :41:56.we want a monarch... -- as a nation. Thank you very much indeed. The
:41:56. > :42:02.number of people sleeping rough is rising sharply, not surprising
:42:02. > :42:08.perhaps in this economic crisis but things are getting worse as funding
:42:08. > :42:13.is being reduced. Free food is being served to some of society's
:42:13. > :42:20.most trouble. Nearly all have a drink or drug problems, some have
:42:20. > :42:29.ended up on the streets. I was sleeping rough. I ended up a couple
:42:29. > :42:35.of nights sleeping tucked up behind some bins behind and McDonald's.
:42:35. > :42:41.Official figures for England show rough sleeping up 1 1/4 in the past
:42:41. > :42:47.year. The South West has the highest rate. The majority of
:42:47. > :42:52.people who come in are asking for accommodation on an hourly basis.
:42:52. > :42:59.Two people now hasting for housing advice. It is getting really really
:42:59. > :43:04.bad. -- asking for housing advice. Yet help is diminishing. Brittle
:43:04. > :43:14.city council is under pressure, it wants to cut �1 million from the
:43:14. > :43:19.money it spends on the homeless. By some places like this could cause
:43:19. > :43:26.the. This is the or only place in Bristol that is perfect for me and
:43:26. > :43:33.a lot of girls in my situation. This woman came here to escape from
:43:33. > :43:39.prostitution and drug addiction. It has room for five women. It gives
:43:39. > :43:44.me the opportunity to feel safe and secure. When staff heard that the
:43:44. > :43:48.council may cut their funding it was huge this belief. I know it is
:43:48. > :43:53.a difficult economic time and cut have to be made but for a cut to be
:43:53. > :43:59.made for the most marginalised women in society it is a lot to get
:43:59. > :44:06.your head around. This call has been targeted because it is more
:44:06. > :44:12.expensive than most and not as well used as others. I am not wielding
:44:12. > :44:18.an axe, I am having to make the system far more effective. What we
:44:18. > :44:23.are trying in all of this is to keep the same provision but by
:44:23. > :44:28.using less taxpayers' money. I cannot guarantee that is going to
:44:28. > :44:34.work. He is adamant Bristol bucks the national trend and that rough
:44:34. > :44:44.sleeping is not increasing. I do worry about some of these things
:44:44. > :44:44.
:44:44. > :44:49.and idealise it is my responsibility but we have very
:44:49. > :44:54.noble ambitions and we will get a result. Everywhere council budgets
:44:54. > :45:01.are going backwards but no one wants to go back to the scourge of
:45:01. > :45:07.rough sleeping seen in the past. How many people have you got
:45:07. > :45:14.sleeping rough in Bath? We do count once per week, it they describe the
:45:14. > :45:19.year, in the centre of Bath it is anything from 14 to 30 people.
:45:19. > :45:24.Isn't that a disgrace? It is not something anyone sleeps easily
:45:24. > :45:29.thinking about. There are a lot of situations which lead people to
:45:29. > :45:33.become homeless. We are investing in facilities but also increasingly
:45:33. > :45:37.looking at bringing back some of the empty houses, more social
:45:37. > :45:46.housing, so that people do not get to the stage where homelessness is
:45:46. > :45:52.their only option. It is something no one wants to see. Something that
:45:52. > :45:56.we saw so much of in the 80s is creeping back, what can we do?
:45:56. > :46:00.think that the first point to be made is that rough sleeping is only
:46:00. > :46:05.the tip of the iceberg. There are other people who are homeless,
:46:05. > :46:10.sleeping on people's couches or in temporary accommodation. The
:46:10. > :46:16.figures from 2003 were coming down and we were making inroads. I think
:46:16. > :46:21.it does come down to a question of priorities. We accept that cuts
:46:21. > :46:26.have to be made but be supported people grant is being cut, in some
:46:26. > :46:31.cases up to 20%, that money supports people who are very
:46:31. > :46:35.vulnerable in their housing. People with addiction problems, may be
:46:35. > :46:40.mental health problems, as well as just needing a roof over their
:46:40. > :46:43.heads. It is a false economy not to look after people like that because
:46:43. > :46:49.in the end they will need public services or we'll end up in prison
:46:49. > :46:56.and it will cost more money. What is the moral case for seeing nobody
:46:56. > :47:04.should be homeless? The moral case is that every one of us is a
:47:04. > :47:09.valuable human being. -- saying. Every individual is as valuable as
:47:09. > :47:14.each other. The fact that our society so often discriminates in
:47:14. > :47:20.that sense is scandalous but it is part of the human condition that we
:47:20. > :47:27.continually wrestle with. It comes down to funding. Everyone accepts
:47:27. > :47:32.that the budgets are tight but it has not got to be a priority. Why
:47:32. > :47:36.isn't the coalition spending more? What we are trying to do his work
:47:36. > :47:40.in partnership with people to actually deliver some of these
:47:40. > :47:44.services in a different way. What we are trying to do is not just
:47:44. > :47:49.have central services within a Bath but also go out to more of the area
:47:50. > :47:55.and be able to do it in a way that delivers a service more efficiently.
:47:55. > :48:00.Labour spent vast sums trying to do with the homelessness problem but
:48:00. > :48:03.it never really cured it. In some cases when it comes to people who
:48:03. > :48:07.have got all sorts of other problems going on in their lives
:48:07. > :48:12.that can be very difficult. If people have addictions it is
:48:12. > :48:17.difficult to keep them within the system. You must see people coming
:48:17. > :48:21.up who cannot be helped and do not actually want to be helped. There
:48:21. > :48:26.are some people who do not want to be helped and in some cases that
:48:26. > :48:30.has to be respected. The point you were making in the earlier part of
:48:30. > :48:36.a were show today indicates the fact that our society is a very
:48:36. > :48:41.dead society. We do need each other, whether people of faith or not, we
:48:41. > :48:46.need to work in partnership in all sorts of different ways. That is
:48:46. > :48:52.the way we have got to look at it. It is a problem of humanity. We
:48:52. > :48:59.have to address it from our different points of view. Thank you.
:48:59. > :49:08.We have to say goodbye to you, bishop. I have been taking a look
:49:08. > :49:12.back through the political week. Here is my a round-up. Hours after
:49:12. > :49:19.appearing on this programme last week this Lib Dem was promoted to
:49:19. > :49:24.work with the Business Secretary, Vince Cable. She is to become his
:49:24. > :49:29.private secretary which is seen as the first step on the ministerial
:49:29. > :49:39.ladder. Bristol celebrity Tony Robinson was among those who
:49:39. > :49:39.
:49:39. > :49:49.lobbied Parliament to have at improved care system for the
:49:49. > :49:58.elderly. Michael Gove became the butt of the joke for or changing
:49:58. > :50:04.the rights of the children's toilets. They want 20 children per
:50:04. > :50:13.toilet. There was a debate over CCTV cameras in Bristol this week
:50:13. > :50:18.as an national conference came to town. The Week in just 60 seconds.
:50:18. > :50:23.A Lib Dem spring conference going on and NHS reform was very much on
:50:23. > :50:28.the agenda. What do you think Liberal Democrats should be doing?
:50:28. > :50:33.I think there will be two motions which will be debated, whether the
:50:33. > :50:38.Bill should be thrown out completely. I am in favour of the
:50:38. > :50:45.motion that we have done quite a lot of amendments. We need to press
:50:45. > :50:51.on absolutely. What we need to do is make sure that we keep on seeing
:50:52. > :50:58.that we do not have unintended consequences at the end. Are you or
:50:58. > :51:08.not? I am for the bill with the amendments. All of them? All of the
:51:08. > :51:09.
:51:09. > :51:16.amendments. What happens? Well, personally my view is that the Bill
:51:16. > :51:20.should never be brought in at its current form. It is an ongoing
:51:20. > :51:24.thing but when David Cameron stood at the General Election he said
:51:24. > :51:28.there would be no top-down reform of the NHS, there was not time for
:51:28. > :51:33.it and it was not in the Lib Dem manifesto was either. What is
:51:33. > :51:37.important at the moment is that on Friday we had the decision that the