0:01:23 > 0:01:27In the West: It's day 18 on the picket line at
0:01:27 > 0:01:37Swindon's Great Western Hospital. As more private firms take over
0:01:37 > 0:01:37
0:01:37 > 0:32:09Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1832 seconds
0:32:09 > 0:32:14public sector contracts, is this a On the Sunday politics here in the
0:32:14 > 0:32:16West: The strike that is disrupting housekeeping at Great Weston
0:32:16 > 0:32:20Hospital. It is day 18 on the picket line and
0:32:20 > 0:32:24these workers say they will keep striking as long may as they are
0:32:24 > 0:32:28winning. As more private companies take on the running of public
0:32:28 > 0:32:32services, is this a sign of things to come?
0:32:32 > 0:32:36Here, sharing their views on the picket line are to local
0:32:36 > 0:32:43politicians who will help us throughout the programme. They are
0:32:43 > 0:32:47Duncan Hames from Chippenham who was representing the coalition. On
0:32:48 > 0:32:55the opposite side of the Liber, flying the Labour flag is their
0:32:56 > 0:33:00leader in the House of Lords. She is a member of unite. This week the
0:33:00 > 0:33:05budget and the decision to cut the 50 pence rate of tax. What do you
0:33:05 > 0:33:12think? Complete the ideological. It meant that 14,000 of the richest
0:33:12 > 0:33:17people in this country gain over �40,000 a year. Her family on
0:33:17 > 0:33:23�20,000 is going to lose �250. Nationally it was peanuts, the
0:33:23 > 0:33:27money raised. It said it was a deterrent and there was also a lot
0:33:27 > 0:33:30of tax avoidance. But somebody is avoiding tax because they are
0:33:30 > 0:33:34paying 50 pence in the pound, are they really going to change their
0:33:34 > 0:33:38ways if they are paying slightly less? Are you comfortable with
0:33:38 > 0:33:42this? The most substantial thing in the Budget was raised in the
0:33:42 > 0:33:47personal allowances so ordinary working people got a tax cut. That
0:33:47 > 0:33:50was our priority. You gave way on the 50 pence because of that?
0:33:50 > 0:33:56Because there were other tax measures on the rich that will
0:33:56 > 0:33:59raise five times as much. Like what? Like measures on stamp duty
0:33:59 > 0:34:02for instance. There is not have evidence of people with large
0:34:02 > 0:34:08properties who have been putting them into foreign-owned companies
0:34:08 > 0:34:13to avoid paying stamp duty. They will be really whacked now. It says
0:34:13 > 0:34:21there is at about �100 million cost to give the rich their tax-break,
0:34:21 > 0:34:24that money is raised by putting tax on hot takeaway food like sausage
0:34:24 > 0:34:29rolls. Can you understand the logic? Why it bothered taxing hot
0:34:29 > 0:34:35food? We were a lot more concerned to see substantial taxes raised
0:34:35 > 0:34:41from the wealthy if the 50 pence rate was going to go. As you say,
0:34:41 > 0:34:45these sums are all far smaller than are the biggest change that will be
0:34:45 > 0:34:49affecting people... In Wiltshire and Swindon, a quarter of a million
0:34:50 > 0:34:54people will see their tax bill go down. We will talk about the Budget
0:34:54 > 0:34:59a bit more later on but no sausage rolls for you today it! This week
0:34:59 > 0:35:02MPs gave the final not to controversial plans to overhaul the
0:35:02 > 0:35:07NHS. The Health and Social Care Bill has divided the coalition
0:35:07 > 0:35:12ranks and caused outrage amongst medical professionals. Campaigners
0:35:12 > 0:35:19against the changes challenged the local Lib Dem MP in Wales, warning
0:35:19 > 0:35:24her that she will lose votes and possibly her feet over the changes.
0:35:24 > 0:35:28You are there to represent us, not to tell us what the party line is.
0:35:28 > 0:35:33I am not telling you what the party line is. I am telling you what my
0:35:33 > 0:35:39view is, having looked at the bill, having worked with people to try
0:35:39 > 0:35:43and change it... Yesterday in the marketplace, I got one signature
0:35:43 > 0:35:51every two minutes. People spontaneously made a beeline. They
0:35:51 > 0:35:54were shaking my and because they so wanted their voice to be heard. We
0:35:54 > 0:36:02have health worker signed it, we had members sign it is said they
0:36:02 > 0:36:05would resign from the Lib Dems if you voted Bs to this Bill. They
0:36:06 > 0:36:11will not be there to knock on the doors and give out the leaflets and
0:36:11 > 0:36:16you will not have people supporting you like they did in the last
0:36:16 > 0:36:20election. We urge you, decent people urge you to vote against his
0:36:20 > 0:36:25bail. We are here because we are angry about it. We feel you have
0:36:25 > 0:36:29done something quite undemocratic. You have come in and I can almost
0:36:29 > 0:36:33guarantee that if you were standing with us, it really would make your
0:36:33 > 0:36:36blood boil. There was a lot of anger from those campaigners and
0:36:36 > 0:36:46just after that our health correspondent spoke to Tessa Munt
0:36:46 > 0:36:47
0:36:47 > 0:36:51and this is what she had to say. realise it will be difficult but I
0:36:51 > 0:36:55have to take into consideration what I actually seat in front of me.
0:36:55 > 0:37:01I have listened to both sides of the argument. There are people who
0:37:01 > 0:37:07are quite supportive of the changes. Juditha Brown is a former nurse and
0:37:07 > 0:37:14a health lecturer. She is a campaign against those health
0:37:14 > 0:37:17reforms. What is the problem? do why start? Firstly, nobody had a
0:37:17 > 0:37:23mandate for this. We did a survey last year and 900 ascended by
0:37:23 > 0:37:27people replied and said they were perfectly happy with the NHS as it
0:37:27 > 0:37:30is. Hospital doctors came out against it and the Royal College of
0:37:30 > 0:37:39Nurses came out against it and public health people came out
0:37:39 > 0:37:45against it. Ordinary people like me, nearly 2000 people signed a
0:37:45 > 0:37:48petition saying the Bill should be dropped. Some give a good hospital
0:37:48 > 0:37:52and some have great experiences and some have disappointing experiences.
0:37:52 > 0:37:56What makes you think private will be any better? When you have
0:37:56 > 0:37:59shareholders being responsible for providing health care rather than
0:37:59 > 0:38:04the minister who should be responsible, I do not think it will
0:38:04 > 0:38:08get any better, it will get worse. Do you think the old people who you
0:38:08 > 0:38:13represent do not need any improvements? Things can always be
0:38:13 > 0:38:18improved. We should be proud of our NHS. We give equal access to the
0:38:18 > 0:38:22poorest people. The rich have always been able to buy it.
0:38:22 > 0:38:26will have to pay? Foreign companies are going to come in and want to
0:38:26 > 0:38:30make a profit out of us. If US court an older person to hospital
0:38:30 > 0:38:35and they get great care and they have no bill at the end of it, what
0:38:35 > 0:38:39does it matter to you who pays the doctor's salary? It matters because
0:38:39 > 0:38:45shareholders are not going to have the best interest of people at art.
0:38:45 > 0:38:48They will want a profit. Private companies will set up and they will
0:38:48 > 0:38:54cream off the easy bits away and the NHS will be left with the
0:38:54 > 0:38:58really difficult bits to look after. When this Bill went through, the
0:38:58 > 0:39:01Lib Dem members of the cabinet joined in the general thumping on
0:39:01 > 0:39:05the cabinet table to said they supported it and they were pleased.
0:39:05 > 0:39:10Are you comfortable with it? think the Bill is a lot better than
0:39:10 > 0:39:14it was as a result of the work that has been done in the second
0:39:14 > 0:39:18committee stage and in the House of Lords. I think it is very important
0:39:18 > 0:39:21that we recognise the difference that those changes have made,
0:39:21 > 0:39:24differences that will make sure that it is no longer the case that
0:39:24 > 0:39:30the private sector can get preferential treatment which is
0:39:30 > 0:39:33what happened when the Independent treatment centres were brought in.
0:39:34 > 0:39:38Were you please that this has gone through? I am pleased that the Bill
0:39:38 > 0:39:42is now law and I have supported it through Parliament and I am glad,
0:39:42 > 0:39:48for example, that we will see greater public accountability in
0:39:48 > 0:39:53the NHS. In the last parliament in Wiltshire we saw half of Our beds
0:39:53 > 0:39:57close and there was no local accountability for that the
0:39:57 > 0:40:00decision. Labour started his privatisation creep in the NHS.
0:40:00 > 0:40:04started a tiny amount and it is questionable whether we should have
0:40:04 > 0:40:14done it but I think we should. The point is that now in future any
0:40:14 > 0:40:18hospital can treat up to 49% of its patients as private patients. The
0:40:18 > 0:40:22NHS and we know it will be broken up and fragmented. It is not going
0:40:22 > 0:40:26to be a proper public service which is what the people of this country
0:40:26 > 0:40:29and the people of the West Country deserve. A number of people pay to
0:40:30 > 0:40:33go private, why would you want to stop ordinary people getting that
0:40:33 > 0:40:38kind of service? There is nothing to say the treatment in a private
0:40:38 > 0:40:41company is any better than an NHS treatment. If you are ill you just
0:40:41 > 0:40:45want to be treated with the best possible care and in the majority
0:40:45 > 0:40:50of cases that is in the NHS where we have brilliant consultants,
0:40:50 > 0:40:54nurses, doctors, the whole lot. Things can be improved but they do
0:40:54 > 0:40:57not need such a Bill that encourages privatisation. What the
0:40:57 > 0:41:01protesters were saying is that you would pay for this at the next
0:41:01 > 0:41:07election. Do you feel you have been used in a way as a sort of human
0:41:07 > 0:41:10shield by the Conservatives? No, I do not. Ultimately at the next
0:41:10 > 0:41:13general election, people will see the NHS that they have and they
0:41:13 > 0:41:17will see whether any of the stories they have heard in the last few
0:41:17 > 0:41:20years about what will happen to the NHS actually come true. They will
0:41:20 > 0:41:25be able to judge the government on the record of the health services
0:41:25 > 0:41:29that we have at the time. Some of it is already happening. In Bristol
0:41:29 > 0:41:32Community Health was floated off into a social enterprise away from
0:41:32 > 0:41:36the NHS. I ask if the staff would have the same wages and conditions
0:41:36 > 0:41:39of service and I was told they would for the first year but then
0:41:39 > 0:41:43they were in the private sector. None of these policies could have
0:41:43 > 0:41:47been introduced without the support of the Liberal Democrats. Will get
0:41:47 > 0:41:51the last word from the guy who got it through. We have worked to
0:41:51 > 0:41:54improve this Bill everywhere the can. That includes making sure that
0:41:54 > 0:42:03the new commissioning consortia are more conspiring to -- transparent
0:42:03 > 0:42:06and open. I am sorry, you will pay for it. The NHS reforms are
0:42:06 > 0:42:10fiercely opposed by the unions. One of their biggest complaint is that
0:42:10 > 0:42:14there will be more privatisation inside the health service and that
0:42:14 > 0:42:18is not new. The last government of private firms to build and run
0:42:18 > 0:42:28hospitals. It is at the heart of an industrial dispute in Swindon at
0:42:28 > 0:42:35
0:42:35 > 0:42:40Remember the 1980s? The unions do. Conservative-led governments are
0:42:40 > 0:42:46not good for them. When Margaret Thatcher was in power, membership
0:42:46 > 0:42:49lunch by one-third. Numerous new laws paid them back. Roll forward
0:42:49 > 0:42:53one quarter of a century and union activism has got a different look.
0:42:53 > 0:42:58This was the scene in Swindon on Thursday, an elaborate stunt
0:42:58 > 0:43:04carried out by a union as part of a high-profile battle with a company
0:43:04 > 0:43:09that run the Great Weston Hospital. 150 housekeeping staff have taken
0:43:09 > 0:43:13strike action over the way they have been treated. I think it is
0:43:13 > 0:43:18completely negative what they are doing there. As long as we are
0:43:18 > 0:43:24winning we will continue with the strike. It is not just this company
0:43:24 > 0:43:29under fire. Also criticised a two of the unions at the hospital.
0:43:29 > 0:43:36were fed up with them. We have told them many times that this was going
0:43:36 > 0:43:41on and they were not listening to us. We have come to a union he said
0:43:41 > 0:43:45they would take care of us all. They have been taken care of. The
0:43:45 > 0:43:50union has compensated staff for the 18 days they have been out. The
0:43:50 > 0:43:53union are putting a lot into this fight. They have got hundreds to
0:43:54 > 0:44:01demonstrate on the streets of Swindon last weekend. They are
0:44:01 > 0:44:04worried that having Conservatives in government, making cuts has
0:44:04 > 0:44:09emboldened private firms. officers I have been dealing with
0:44:09 > 0:44:13have been around 40 years in the job and they have never come across
0:44:13 > 0:44:16a employee alike this to have been absolutely are prepared to talk or
0:44:16 > 0:44:26compromise. They have dug their heels in and said there is nothing
0:44:26 > 0:44:41
0:44:41 > 0:44:47to talk about. In a statement, the This is an NHS hospital but with a
0:44:47 > 0:44:49big private sector presence. It was built and is run by profit-making
0:44:50 > 0:44:54companies. With the NHS reforms encouraging more private sector
0:44:54 > 0:44:59involvement, there are fears that there will be many more fights with
0:44:59 > 0:45:06the unions in future. Down the road in Bristol, what is powering ahead
0:45:06 > 0:45:12building the west's biggest hospital. It is a �430 million
0:45:12 > 0:45:16project. Carillion is the main contractor. I fear this may be an
0:45:16 > 0:45:18opening battle and there will be many more battles as private
0:45:18 > 0:45:23companies takeover more of the National Health Service and bring
0:45:23 > 0:45:27in their own hard-headed business approach as opposed to the services
0:45:27 > 0:45:31that we have seen in the National Health Service. We will not call
0:45:31 > 0:45:36any more strikes while these interviews are taking place.
0:45:36 > 0:45:41now there will be a pause for talks. The unions are bracing themselves
0:45:42 > 0:45:47for more battles to come. We did last Carillion on today but
0:45:47 > 0:45:51they could not make it. We have a representative of the United union
0:45:51 > 0:45:56who were -- spoke in support of those workers. You can see trouble
0:45:56 > 0:46:02ahead? I spoke at a rally in support of the victorious
0:46:02 > 0:46:07electrician who were taking unofficial action. I was invited to
0:46:07 > 0:46:11Swindon but I was double-booked. I can see a lot of trouble ahead. It
0:46:11 > 0:46:16is profit before people and privatisation. We have seen it with
0:46:16 > 0:46:20gas, electric, water at, and things just go up. We have seen it in the
0:46:20 > 0:46:24rail industry which led to Potters Bar and the loss of life.
0:46:24 > 0:46:29unions are always promising general strikes, student protests, days of
0:46:29 > 0:46:34action, and it all fizzles out. wish they were always promising
0:46:35 > 0:46:38that. The truth is that people get in front of the trade union
0:46:38 > 0:46:42leadership. My own trade union leader did very well out of the
0:46:42 > 0:46:50Budget because he is on a handsome salary. Yesterday there was a
0:46:50 > 0:46:58demonstration which was impromptu where people care about the NHS. It
0:46:58 > 0:47:03is being privatised under our noses. It wasn't a huge demonstration. I
0:47:03 > 0:47:07saw the pictures. Do not forget that when we looked at the pictures
0:47:07 > 0:47:11from the 1980s and what Thatcher did to the unions, that was all in
0:47:11 > 0:47:15response to what happened in the 70s when we were boys and we were
0:47:15 > 0:47:19doing our homework by candlelight because the power workers switched
0:47:19 > 0:47:24off the electricity. Like you, I had a lot of fun during the three-
0:47:24 > 0:47:30day week, dressing by candlelight. I think the truth is that trade
0:47:30 > 0:47:36unionists should be inspired to fight for the NHS and fight for
0:47:36 > 0:47:41services and fight for proper jobs, not �6.50 an hour. These people in
0:47:41 > 0:47:48Swindon hospital are heroes. They are courageous people. Carillion
0:47:48 > 0:47:53has blacklists of a trade union members. Labour's relationship with
0:47:53 > 0:47:58the unions is quite tricky, isn't it? Not really. I am a proud trade
0:47:58 > 0:48:02unions. Did you take part in the recent days of action? I have been
0:48:02 > 0:48:08on demonstrations but they did not pick take part in the day of action.
0:48:08 > 0:48:11Do you regard Labour as being your party? I think Margaret Thatcher
0:48:12 > 0:48:18criminalised trade unionists. She had anti-union laws that made it
0:48:18 > 0:48:22impossible to take legal action... Are you a Labour supporter? Labour
0:48:22 > 0:48:27never repealed those anti-union laws. At least the Tories do for
0:48:27 > 0:48:31their class what they promise. They make the rich richer. Labour lead
0:48:31 > 0:48:36the trade unionists down. They let the working class down. I would
0:48:36 > 0:48:40completely disagree with that. We created jobs under Labour. We did a
0:48:40 > 0:48:44huge amount to take people out of poverty, especially young people
0:48:44 > 0:48:48and elderly people. Life under Labour was 100 times better than it
0:48:48 > 0:48:53would be under this Government. was people power that smashed the
0:48:53 > 0:49:00poll tax. Labour said pay it and we were changed over me get into power.
0:49:00 > 0:49:05I was pleased to ignore the Labour MPs. Let us bring Duncan into this
0:49:05 > 0:49:11discussion. More privatisation in at the NHS, you back the bill. Can
0:49:12 > 0:49:14you see more industrial problems coming as a result? I do not see
0:49:15 > 0:49:18that actually. In recent years there have been more industrial
0:49:18 > 0:49:23problems in the public sector than the private sector. I do not want
0:49:23 > 0:49:26to see us go back to the 1980s. I have a lot of sympathy for the sort
0:49:26 > 0:49:31of position that the workers are taking in this dispute. They are
0:49:31 > 0:49:35not going on this -- strike because they were more pay. Their
0:49:35 > 0:49:39complaints about -- and their complaints are about bullying and
0:49:39 > 0:49:45their allegations of bribery. There should be a proper investigation
0:49:45 > 0:49:51into the complaint that they have made. We have to leave it there.
0:49:51 > 0:49:57one goes on strike for a laugh, everybody takes it seriously.
0:49:57 > 0:50:06right, we will stay in 2012 for now,. Thank you very much indeed.
0:50:06 > 0:50:09We will take a look back at today's political headlines.
0:50:09 > 0:50:15It is the determined policy of this Government that we keep a Wallace
0:50:15 > 0:50:18and Gromit exactly where they are. Bristol's celebrity duo got a
0:50:18 > 0:50:25mention from the Chancellor this week as he announced a new tax
0:50:25 > 0:50:29break for animations, bringing them in a line with big-budget films.
0:50:29 > 0:50:33Vince Cable said he backed moves to boost research in the West. There
0:50:33 > 0:50:37is a big project to support research in the aerospace industry
0:50:37 > 0:50:42which is crucial. A High Court challenge put paid to government
0:50:42 > 0:50:45plans to cull badgers. The badger Trust says its legal challenge
0:50:45 > 0:50:50should be heard in June. Most of Bristol's council-run hair
0:50:50 > 0:50:55homes could be closed under plans under at the limit debt -- Liberal
0:50:55 > 0:50:57Democrat run council. It was back to the future as Labour
0:50:57 > 0:51:02and the Lib Dems on South Gloucestershire council backed a
0:51:02 > 0:51:10move to end the Cabinet decision- making system. They voted to return
0:51:11 > 0:51:16to the old committee system. That Was the Week in just one
0:51:16 > 0:51:21minute. Just time for a very quick talk about the Budget finally. Let
0:51:21 > 0:51:25us have for just one highlight or low light. Too low lights, nothing
0:51:25 > 0:51:30for young people and the granny tax. 4.4 million pensioners are going to
0:51:30 > 0:51:36lose out. Extra money to support the economy in Wiltshire and
0:51:36 > 0:51:41Swindon and not well supported but a further increase in the tax on
0:51:41 > 0:51:45banks. Will there be growth? growth will not improve as a
0:51:45 > 0:51:49response to this Budget. We shall have to wait and see. Thank you
0:51:49 > 0:51:53very much indeed. That is it from the West this week. Sunday politics