:01:41. > :01:45.Is And here in the West: will the Government be forced to do a U-turn
:01:45. > :01:51.on plans to put VAT on static caravans like these? The campaign
:01:51. > :02:01.is growing amid fears that the poor damage the tourist industry. --
:02:01. > :02:01.
:02:01. > :29:48.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1666 seconds
:29:48. > :29:56.that it would damage the tourist Welcome to the Sunday Politics in
:29:56. > :30:01.Bristol. The Sun has been shining. Perfect excuse to pop down to the
:30:01. > :30:06.caravans. But the Chancellor is putting VAT on static caravans like
:30:07. > :30:11.these, and is it another pasty tax targeting the working-class? I am
:30:11. > :30:19.joined by the Conservative MP from Bristol NW, Charlotte Leslie. She
:30:20. > :30:24.knows about tourism from her time as or Life Guard, and Dan Norris,
:30:24. > :30:27.former Labour MP for one stake who has had more time for holidays by
:30:27. > :30:33.the sea after losing his seat at the last election. But his
:30:33. > :30:38.political vacation could be over if he secures the Labour nomination
:30:38. > :30:42.for mayor of Bristol. Welcome to you both. Westthorp about the
:30:42. > :30:46.Olympic torch, which is going through our patch. Is that feel-
:30:46. > :30:52.good factor going to reflect politically, kindly, on the
:30:52. > :30:57.Government. Yes, the feel-good factor has been fantastic. The
:30:57. > :31:03.torch went past my office. It felt like this is a special you. This is
:31:03. > :31:08.an historic event. I hope that the Olympics leaves a legacy of
:31:08. > :31:13.optimism and sporting opportunity for young people. An important
:31:13. > :31:20.event in a time of austerity? has been gone well, people have
:31:20. > :31:25.been happy to spend the money, but what's lovely to see was Blair
:31:25. > :31:31.Hannan coming along with the torch, they were cheering, it was a
:31:31. > :31:36.wonderful event. You cannot put a price on that. It will be a
:31:36. > :31:41.brilliant advert for Britain a round the world. It has certainly
:31:41. > :31:45.been a special week. The main story this week, the caravan tax. If you
:31:45. > :31:49.won a caravan that can be towed, he will have paid VAT on it, and the
:31:49. > :31:53.Government is extending VAT to static caravans that you see by the
:31:53. > :31:56.1,000 in West Country all the parts. The accusation is that the
:31:56. > :32:06.millionairess who already in the Bahamas are hammering the working-
:32:06. > :32:07.
:32:07. > :32:10.class who take their be occasions in places like a Bream. These two
:32:10. > :32:15.couples are not well the and buying more belongs has been a big
:32:15. > :32:21.commitment and they are stunned that VAT may be imposed. We will be
:32:21. > :32:24.looking to produce a new one, but that could restrict us and the
:32:24. > :32:29.purchase of a new van. definitely will. It will make a big
:32:29. > :32:35.difference. We would not have been able to afford a new caravan. It
:32:35. > :32:38.has taken all other savings. From on high, you get an idea of how
:32:38. > :32:42.important static caravans are on the stretch of coastline. The vast
:32:42. > :32:46.majority are second homes, which the Budget is sitting with the tax
:32:46. > :32:50.hike. It is the contrast between the different styles of holiday
:32:50. > :32:54.warm that upsets people. If you have the money for a real house u p
:32:54. > :33:01.stamp duty at 1% but that you can only stretch to a new mobile home,
:33:01. > :33:07.next door, from October, you will be Payne VAT at 20%. The says a
:33:08. > :33:12.typical example of the caravans we sell. Opposition has mounted.
:33:12. > :33:17.almost �30,000 and from the 1st October this will be almost �36,000.
:33:18. > :33:24.It will be priced out of the market. She showing a representative around
:33:24. > :33:26.from Somerset tourism is Alan House, most of this static caravans in his
:33:26. > :33:33.park are privately owned. The Government admits that the industry
:33:33. > :33:39.will be hit. So my sect is the second largest camera van
:33:39. > :33:44.destination after Skegness in the UK. We think that the industry will
:33:44. > :33:48.be hit by 50%. If you take that market a way this is going to have
:33:48. > :33:55.a massive impact on the local and national tourist economy. He pulled
:33:55. > :34:00.do not budget for that sort of thing that is entirely arbitrary.
:34:00. > :34:07.Which people are not going to be affected. David Cameron's whole
:34:07. > :34:12.holidays are not going to be disrupted. The controversy has
:34:12. > :34:16.reached the Prime Minister. Think again about this tax which will
:34:16. > :34:21.Kapoor and already suffering industry. It MPs of all parties
:34:21. > :34:31.opposed it. I do not think it is fair that immortal caravan pays VAT
:34:31. > :34:34.
:34:34. > :34:38.but a stationary caravan does not. -- that I'm mobile caravan. At an
:34:38. > :34:44.event aimed at boosting the local economy, this Somerset MP was
:34:44. > :34:47.unapologetic. The Government does not expect anybody to like it, but
:34:47. > :34:53.frankly, we are short of money and we are trying to get a more
:34:53. > :34:56.rational, sensible VAT system and close the massive gap in the public
:34:56. > :35:01.finances left by the last government. The so called caravan
:35:01. > :35:09.tax should start in the autumn, unless it is blown off course Barry
:35:09. > :35:14.government changes of backbench rebellion. -- by government changes.
:35:14. > :35:18.The House been a consultation and it is difficult. People who have
:35:18. > :35:24.mobile caravans and will be looking at static caravans and thinking
:35:24. > :35:28.that that is unfair. Will people be thinking it is unfair? It is always
:35:28. > :35:33.difficult when you ask people to pay any tax. We are looking at what
:35:33. > :35:37.it is doing to the industry, and the sadness of it, that has to be
:35:37. > :35:43.looked at. I would ask the Government to look at it. You have
:35:43. > :35:48.a Cabinet of millionaires. Static caravans are not on David Cameron's
:35:48. > :35:51.radar, or George Osborne. That is not it at all. There are many
:35:51. > :35:57.anomalies in the tax system. The minute you start to tackle those,
:35:57. > :36:00.it becomes difficult, because the people who have had a good deal, it
:36:00. > :36:06.hits them heart, and there is a case to be made about whether this
:36:06. > :36:12.will save as much money as we think. For 45 million come over five years,
:36:12. > :36:17.I think. What hundred and 70 million, but there is a point about
:36:17. > :36:22.the entire Minister. I think it is 170 million. Diane Lawrence, any
:36:22. > :36:25.sympathy with the Government over this? The Government has got to be
:36:26. > :36:31.imaginative and this is not a way to raise tax effectively. It is a
:36:31. > :36:34.nonsense that somebody who works in the city can buy a second home for
:36:34. > :36:39.240 doesn't towns and Payne much less tax than someone who buys a
:36:39. > :36:45.static caravan for �13,000. That is nonsensical. That is just not
:36:45. > :36:50.thinking things through properly. You have got to use imagination and
:36:50. > :36:54.energy and think things through carefully. Consultation, great, but
:36:54. > :36:59.these are two very daft ideas, at the beginning and I bet you that
:36:59. > :37:04.this does not go through. Can we see Ed Miliband pretending to take
:37:04. > :37:10.caravan holidays and eat Cornish pasty is? I cannot answer for that,
:37:10. > :37:13.but this is a serious matter. Caravans are associated with moving
:37:13. > :37:20.around and these are more like second homes, and that is the best
:37:20. > :37:26.comparison, therefore, it is unfair. People who enjoy a static caravans
:37:26. > :37:30.see them as good for families, retired people, all the rest of it.
:37:30. > :37:36.Well they see this as an attack on the working-class? People save for
:37:36. > :37:39.them, they a modest, they enjoy him, and now they are being hammered.
:37:39. > :37:43.Nobody is going to like tax being raised on it. I completely
:37:43. > :37:49.sympathise with people. I agree that it might need to be looked at
:37:49. > :37:53.again. We must look at the effect on the industry. If we need growth,
:37:53. > :38:02.we need to be proud of British Industry, it is not intuitive to
:38:02. > :38:07.clobber one of our indices. I agree. Somerset does have a
:38:07. > :38:12.disproportionately high number of these static caravans. Why isn't
:38:13. > :38:17.the Government's radar working? It's Conservative and Lib Dem
:38:17. > :38:23.members in places like Somerset, why are the alarm bells not ringing,
:38:23. > :38:26.because it is not worth the trouble for them to do this? As a
:38:26. > :38:30.government trying to raise money in difficult times, you have got to
:38:30. > :38:33.look at unfairness in the tax system. But you are giving
:38:33. > :38:38.millionairess a tax break. difference between static caravans
:38:38. > :38:41.and proper homes is a bit of an issue. We should look at it. That
:38:41. > :38:47.is why the consultation is there. you're not going to commit whether
:38:47. > :38:50.you going to vote against it. issue is when people can only
:38:51. > :38:54.afford a static caravan they cannot afford a second proper home, and
:38:54. > :38:58.that is why it is unfair and we need to put pressure on the
:38:59. > :39:05.Government to do something about this. I will be making
:39:05. > :39:10.representations. For thousands of people all over the West Country,
:39:10. > :39:13.catching a bus is the only way to get around. But as Somerset county
:39:13. > :39:20.council struggles to balance the books, it has taken the axe to
:39:20. > :39:25.around 40 bus was. We spoke to campaigners who are refusing to
:39:25. > :39:28.give up the fight over their bus was. Queuing for the bus. For
:39:28. > :39:38.Eileen and her friends, it is the weekly trip from Jeddah to Bristol.
:39:38. > :39:40.
:39:41. > :39:46.She has been catching this bus for more than 20 years -- from Cheddar.
:39:46. > :39:52.But this is the last time they will be catching this bus. Their
:39:52. > :39:58.lifeline is being cut. The council is stopping paying for the 490, so
:39:58. > :40:02.this is its final run. For years, councils in rural areas have paid a
:40:02. > :40:06.bus companies subsidies to one bus was like this. It will not make a
:40:06. > :40:09.profit but the council says that it is socially necessary. Somerset
:40:09. > :40:16.County Council is cutting the amount of its subsidies by more
:40:16. > :40:23.than 50%, meaning dozens of bus routes like this.. It you try to
:40:23. > :40:29.get private transport it is �75 return, and I cannot afford that.
:40:29. > :40:35.Shopping and going to hospital. am diabetics why need appointments
:40:35. > :40:41.in hospital at Bristol. I cannot drive. The buses packed for his
:40:41. > :40:45.final voyage, that sometimes only gets ample passengers and with
:40:45. > :40:50.almost all of them being over 60 they used free passes, making it
:40:50. > :40:55.more difficult for the sums to add up for a bus company. That is why
:40:55. > :41:04.it has fallen to the council to underwrite costs. This woman, Terry
:41:04. > :41:09.King, has become the then leader of the passengers from Cheddar. Don't
:41:09. > :41:15.cry. It is our last on at the moment, but do not give up hope. I
:41:15. > :41:19.have got friends in high places. I have a friend on Somerset County
:41:19. > :41:24.Council and she is working for us and she said, tell them all not to
:41:24. > :41:34.giver yet, and hopefully, this will come back eventually. Thank you for
:41:34. > :41:38.
:41:38. > :41:43.listening and thank you for coming out. APPLAUSE. The Conservative-run
:41:43. > :41:50.council said that this route costs more than �10 per passenger and the
:41:50. > :41:55.council is spending �2 million, still, on bus subsidies,
:41:55. > :41:59.prioritising Bruce for students in rural areas. But one Lib Dem MP
:41:59. > :42:03.says that the council priorities are wrong. The council has got �34
:42:03. > :42:07.million in his bank account this year, for a rainy day. It is
:42:07. > :42:12.raining. I know that it is sunny right now, but in financial terms,
:42:12. > :42:17.it is raining, it is pouring, and they should be spending money on
:42:17. > :42:22.this. The bus might have stopped on now, but, for these passengers, the
:42:22. > :42:27.wheels are still in motion. They are put in the best route forward,
:42:27. > :42:33.and refusing to give up the fight. I am joined by Tim Gardner,
:42:33. > :42:38.managing director of a company that Bonn's some of the subsidised bus
:42:38. > :42:44.routes in Somerset that have been cut. Do you have a moral duty to
:42:44. > :42:50.keep the services going, subsidy or not? I think so, but you have to
:42:50. > :42:54.bear in mind that these cuts come up in addition to cuts in the bus
:42:54. > :42:59.service operators grant, particularly with in Somerset
:42:59. > :43:04.County Council, a reduction in the concessionary reimbursement scheme.
:43:04. > :43:08.A considerable amount of money. people over 65 automatically get
:43:08. > :43:14.free trouble? That is an interesting question. We have to
:43:14. > :43:19.bear in mind that many people who used concessionary cards regularly
:43:19. > :43:28.are the elderly. I does not mean they cannot afford the bus there.
:43:28. > :43:31.Yes, but at the end of the day, these are vulnerable people. They
:43:31. > :43:39.might have just decided not to run a car. It is a universal benefit,
:43:39. > :43:43.isn't it? Yes, but what about the environment? Should all these
:43:43. > :43:53.people jump into their car and start polluting the Abbas you?
:43:53. > :43:53.
:43:54. > :44:00.subsidies have doubled in recent years. -- polluting the atmosphere.
:44:00. > :44:06.Let's bring in most other guests. Dan Norris, surely councils have to
:44:06. > :44:12.save their money. I saw the unit cost their trip, and I thought, why
:44:12. > :44:18.don't because will try to get that empty bus filled with other people,
:44:18. > :44:22.unemployed people who want to sign on for example. When I was an MP,
:44:22. > :44:29.that was something that people want it. They wanted to get around, go
:44:29. > :44:33.to a hospital, whatever. But the elderly is a bust they can use the
:44:33. > :44:38.free Pass. We should aspire to give all people dignity in retirement
:44:38. > :44:43.and should give them a system where they might do not have to pay for
:44:44. > :44:48.buses. They happy tax all their lives. Retired people make up the
:44:48. > :44:51.poorest in society but also some of the richest. That is done through
:44:51. > :44:55.the tax system. You should not stigmatise people by saying that
:44:55. > :44:59.some people pay and some people don't. You should give dignity of
:44:59. > :45:05.Europe -- dignity to older people, and this is a good way of making
:45:05. > :45:09.sure that this need is met, because it there is often vulnerable people
:45:09. > :45:14.there affected. Some people cannot get around any more because of
:45:14. > :45:17.buses have been cut. It is tough, and brought communities suffer, but
:45:17. > :45:22.the councils are struggling for money, buses require subsidies. I
:45:22. > :45:27.agree with Daniel. You must protect the elderly, who are vulnerable,
:45:27. > :45:31.from having to pay bus fares. If there was any change, it could not
:45:31. > :45:35.come from politicians. It would have to come from them, themselves,
:45:35. > :45:40.saying that we would rather have a bus and peer a little poorer, than
:45:40. > :45:50.not, but that is not something that politics can do. Do the bosses
:45:50. > :45:52.
:45:52. > :45:57.often an MP? Some of them do -- do the buses often when MC? -- run
:45:57. > :46:02.empty? One of the first questions we asked Somerset County Council
:46:02. > :46:06.was, what is the strategy, what are you trying to achieve? And the
:46:06. > :46:11.response was, to save money. That is not unreasonable in these hard
:46:11. > :46:15.times. We have a longer term objective to provide services to
:46:15. > :46:22.the public. So what is the solution? Some bus services are
:46:22. > :46:27.being paid a lot of money to one a red empty, particularly in role is.
:46:27. > :46:31.There are community transport schemes. Buses which do not one at
:46:31. > :46:37.regular times but do one regular routes. There are a host of
:46:37. > :46:40.different schemes that can be used. We have to think of the bus service
:46:40. > :46:50.as a mask transport solution. should be about meeting a genuine
:46:50. > :46:56.need, efficiently as possible. we want to have a nationalised bus
:46:56. > :47:00.industry? I don't, but... The if we had a decent will restructure the
:47:00. > :47:10.buses become valuable to link up. We're back in the South West at
:47:10. > :47:12.
:47:12. > :47:20.getting our fair share of that cash. Let's take a look back at some of
:47:20. > :47:24.the other political highlights of The Bristol Lib Dem Stephen
:47:24. > :47:29.Williams got an unexpected reaction at Prime Minister's Questions. He
:47:29. > :47:34.wanted the Government to commit to more investment in housing and
:47:34. > :47:39.infrastructure. After catcalls from the Shadow Chancellor, the Prime
:47:39. > :47:43.Minister launched this attack. hard-won credibility that we would
:47:43. > :47:47.have not had if we listen to the muttering idiot sitting across from
:47:47. > :47:52.me. He was then asked if he would retract the statement by the
:47:52. > :47:56.speaker. Conservative MP Clare Parry has called for more help for
:47:56. > :48:01.people with epilepsy. She broke down in tears talking about the
:48:01. > :48:05.death of her ten-year-old in her constituency the stock there is
:48:05. > :48:15.nothing that I can say that will bring Charlie back, or give his
:48:15. > :48:28.
:48:28. > :48:33.Some of the other stories. Let's talk about that muttering in the
:48:33. > :48:38.remark from the Prime Minister to Ed Balls. -- muttering idiot. Do
:48:38. > :48:45.you agree? Whether Ed Balls is a muttering idiot? I could not
:48:45. > :48:49.possibly comment! Prime Minister's Questions is a funny old place. It
:48:49. > :48:55.is something of a bear pit. It summarises the contest that goes on
:48:55. > :49:02.in politics. It is not always that help poor, but you saw some genuine
:49:02. > :49:07.passion there from Claire Parry. Balls deliberately wins up the
:49:07. > :49:12.Prime Minister. You have to look at policies going back over a long
:49:12. > :49:17.period, and prime ministers, and none of them are lost it, the way
:49:17. > :49:23.that David Cameron does. He told Dennis Skinner to retire early when
:49:23. > :49:28.he asked him a question. Labour represents a good cripple people