:01:20. > :01:22.In the west: After the march by the far-right in Bristol this weekend,
:01:22. > :01:32.we're looking at the state of race relations.
:01:32. > :01:32.
:01:32. > :31:37.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1805 seconds
:31:38. > :31:43.Are the politicians to blame for Good afternoon. We are live this
:31:43. > :31:48.afternoon with 20 minutes of discussion and debate. Our top
:31:48. > :31:52.story: at this weekend's march by the English Defence League in
:31:52. > :31:59.Bristol. Despite 14 arrests it was mainly peaceful, but have
:31:59. > :32:09.politicians added to aggravation? First, this week's guests. They are
:32:09. > :32:19.to West Country politicians with precious little in common. They are
:32:19. > :32:21.
:32:21. > :32:25.Jacob Rees Mogg and Anne Snelgrove. Jacob, you have voted this week
:32:25. > :32:30.against house of Lords reform. Why have you done that? I think that
:32:31. > :32:35.they were badly thought-through and I do not think that we should
:32:35. > :32:40.change constitutional issues without a referendum.
:32:40. > :32:49.Liberal Democrat wanted a bit of constitutional form --
:32:49. > :32:52.constitutional reform and you have rebelled. We think it was appalling
:32:53. > :33:02.that the reforms were introducing proportional representation, which
:33:03. > :33:03.
:33:03. > :33:07.was rejected over euro. I am afraid that one of the takes his house of
:33:07. > :33:12.Lords reform. All of the parties want House of
:33:12. > :33:19.Lords reform, but you have put the kibosh on it by disagreeing with
:33:19. > :33:23.the timetabling bill. We have great concerns about a timetabling of
:33:23. > :33:31.this bill over ten days. We have reduced the hereditary Peers by 90
:33:31. > :33:35.per cent, Brotton and elected Speaker, the people's Peers. --
:33:35. > :33:40.brought end. They want to have some proper debate about how they can
:33:40. > :33:44.take this forward. David Cameron has a real problem with this party
:33:44. > :33:49.now. 91 of his Conservative MPs rebelled against this and he really
:33:49. > :33:54.has got in trouble of -- got in trouble over this.
:33:54. > :33:59.I peace march has been held in Bristol this afternoon. It is in
:33:59. > :34:05.response to yesterday's march by the English Defence League, which
:34:05. > :34:09.has brought concern to the Nuzum community. The there was a rival
:34:09. > :34:18.demonstration which kicked off the trouble. What does it say about the
:34:18. > :34:22.state of community and race relations? It really could not be a
:34:22. > :34:25.more difference seen today here in Queen Square. It is very calm and
:34:26. > :34:33.peaceful. If you look around, there is a cycling festival taking place
:34:33. > :34:39.today, a complete contrast to the best that we witnessed yesterday. -
:34:39. > :34:44.- to the events that we witnessed. The English Defence League were
:34:44. > :34:47.marched in conjunction with the police down side streets. Piquet
:34:47. > :34:54.then living and eventually brought their march into Queen Square,
:34:55. > :35:00.where there were rallies and speeches.
:35:00. > :35:09.When they got to the square there had been no trouble, but opponents
:35:09. > :35:14.of EDL were determined to confront them. Organisations such as We Are
:35:14. > :35:18.Bristol, who have a record of opposing the EDL. There were some
:35:18. > :35:24.small groups, there were quite a number of arrests. There were 14
:35:25. > :35:32.people in total. The day ended on a rather sour note, with the police
:35:32. > :35:38.having to make a lot of arrests. Let us talk to a couple of people
:35:39. > :35:46.who were involved and have strong views on this. He did not one there
:35:46. > :35:55.to be a counter protest yesterday, didn't she? You are right. We were
:35:55. > :36:00.strongly discouraging people to join in. Before rigor further, I
:36:00. > :36:03.would like to take the opportunity to thank the police for doing a
:36:03. > :36:11.marvellous and fantastic job. And to the city as a whole, who
:36:11. > :36:18.conducted themselves very well. had held tops with EDL and the
:36:18. > :36:24.organisers of their counter protests -- held meetings. You find
:36:24. > :36:28.the opponents of their protests difficult to work with? There was a
:36:28. > :36:34.lot of a motion at stake. Discussions need to happen right at
:36:34. > :36:40.the beginning, not halfway through, are too close to this event. This
:36:40. > :36:46.is a learning progress, we need to sit down and discuss how we can
:36:46. > :36:51.learn how to conduct ourselves much better. You are the Labour
:36:51. > :37:00.candidate for her the Bristol mayoral election. He pushing into
:37:00. > :37:04.the counter protests, I you happy with what happened? My name was on
:37:04. > :37:14.the protest, but there is another story about that. Yesterday was
:37:14. > :37:15.
:37:15. > :37:18.actually about pride. It is a shame... Wasn't having a big
:37:18. > :37:22.counter-demonstration close by bound to inflame things? That is
:37:22. > :37:30.what then is on community had not wanted. People would come out in
:37:30. > :37:40.protest anyway. The clear thing was what -- the thing to make clear was
:37:40. > :37:41.
:37:41. > :37:45.to say, they all wanted to make a statement about Bristol. There were
:37:45. > :37:49.whole mix of people there, a number of people who have delivered
:37:49. > :37:53.fantastically far the city. A number of community activists who
:37:53. > :38:00.had been working hard... But that is not the image that people come
:38:00. > :38:08.away with from the events yesterday, is it? It depends how you reported.
:38:08. > :38:14.If you look at the events of the gay pride march, and the events
:38:14. > :38:18.across the city throughout the year, then you have a different image.
:38:18. > :38:23.will also be focusing later this afternoon on a piece wok, which
:38:23. > :38:31.will be happening today in order to show the positive side of Bristol -
:38:31. > :38:37.- peace march. Jacob, why do you think that the
:38:37. > :38:41.English Defence League find support? The there is a real
:38:41. > :38:45.problem with the immigration issue, because it has been toxic for
:38:45. > :38:52.politicians. It has been tied up with ideas of race and politicians
:38:52. > :38:56.had been very nervous about talking about it in a rational way.
:38:56. > :39:00.opposing the spread of Islam in this country racist or wrong?
:39:00. > :39:05.think that that is just wrong. I do not think we should be frightened
:39:05. > :39:12.of Islam, frightened of other -- frightened of other religions, but
:39:12. > :39:16.it comes out of a fear of emigration. If politicians had
:39:16. > :39:25.dealt with their idea of emigration earlier, we would see much more
:39:25. > :39:32.tolerance in terms of religion. Would you accept that Labour lost
:39:32. > :39:41.control and allowed immigration on a massive scale. And be left some
:39:41. > :39:47.traditional Labour supporters, including the White working classes,
:39:47. > :39:54.feeling threatened? I do not think we lost control. When countries
:39:54. > :40:03.such as Paul and were -- such as Poland were allowed into the
:40:03. > :40:06.European Union, then we had some issues. We had problems with cheap
:40:06. > :40:11.labour coming in from Eastern Europe. We are conflating lot of
:40:11. > :40:16.issues here. The march yesterday was anti- Islam and chosen on a day
:40:16. > :40:22.when Bristol were celebrating the pride. There were twice as many
:40:22. > :40:27.people at the Gay pride celebration as the EDL could muster from the
:40:27. > :40:33.hold the country. Well done to the Gay pride march and thumbs down to
:40:33. > :40:41.the EDL. What would you like to see with
:40:41. > :40:45.immigration? Why has the government not got a handle on it? I am more
:40:45. > :40:50.of a sceptic than the government has. I think we need to look at all
:40:50. > :41:00.the immigration problem, can take - - including from the European Union.
:41:00. > :41:00.
:41:00. > :41:06.We have simply had too many people coming in and providing a labour
:41:06. > :41:10.force that has paid out of work the indigenous labour force. That is a
:41:10. > :41:16.problem for our country. Do you accept that immigration drive down
:41:16. > :41:19.wages, pates pressure on housing? think it has driven down wages,
:41:19. > :41:24.where housing is concerned, I think that many of those immigrants
:41:24. > :41:27.living in very bad housing situations, that is my experience
:41:27. > :41:36.in that Swindon. I think that we need to look at the European Union
:41:36. > :41:43.again. We would say that we have made some mistakes over emigration,
:41:43. > :41:46.but not over wider emigration. I just say one thing? A think it is
:41:46. > :41:52.very unfortunate that a grand mother of a family from the Indian
:41:52. > :42:00.sub-continent find it -- find it very difficult to come here even
:42:00. > :42:07.though her family is here. Whereas someone from the European Union can
:42:07. > :42:16.come here. No questions asked. That is what we need to the cat. Mark
:42:16. > :42:23.Hook has now been charged with his 112's -- with his 112 offence. He
:42:23. > :42:26.was given a holiday to Africa and was known as Safari Boy, but does
:42:26. > :42:30.his serial offending represent a failure of the criminal justice
:42:30. > :42:35.system? He first made headlines almost 20
:42:35. > :42:41.years ago after being sent to North Africa on holiday. The aim was to
:42:41. > :42:48.break his cycle of reoffending, but just one year later, in 1994, Mark
:42:48. > :42:52.Hook was back in court, charged with more than 30 offences.
:42:52. > :42:56.perhaps need to invest more in nursery education, youth facilities.
:42:56. > :43:00.This is not a soft option I am talking about, I am talking about
:43:00. > :43:05.the choices that society has been investing money.
:43:05. > :43:13.Over the past two decades he has made promises to change, but this
:43:13. > :43:17.week he was charged for his 112 offence, stealing a woman's handbag.
:43:17. > :43:22.The question still remains, can anything be done to make sure this
:43:22. > :43:27.really is Mark Hook's last time behind bars?
:43:27. > :43:31.I am joined now by Juliet Lyon from the Prison Reform Trust. Does his
:43:31. > :43:35.case not short that really we are not on top of serial criminals in
:43:35. > :43:43.this country and that nothing appears to work?
:43:43. > :43:46.His case hits exactly the day, or rather tomorrow, when Ken Clarke
:43:46. > :43:52.and the Prison Reform Trust are celebrating a third drop end youth
:43:52. > :43:54.crime and the number of children behind bars. Something has happened
:43:54. > :44:00.that is really successful and to change that dreary cycle of people
:44:00. > :44:05.going back into jail. You are saying that youth crime is down?
:44:05. > :44:09.Markedly, 37 per cent. So people would say that it does not feel
:44:09. > :44:15.like that on the street. It maybe that it is not reported correctly,
:44:15. > :44:19.but that is actually correct. If you look at this excess of early
:44:19. > :44:23.intervention, getting people in LA to look at -- to get children out
:44:23. > :44:28.of trouble. That is what we did want.
:44:28. > :44:33.People like that young man, a lifetime of crime, to a hundred and
:44:33. > :44:39.12 offences, he says he will go straight, but no one is holding
:44:39. > :44:45.their breath that -- 112. What he would look at with someone like
:44:45. > :44:49.that, prolific persistent offender, he would look at integrated
:44:49. > :44:56.prisoner management. There are some flagship work being done in that
:44:56. > :45:06.area. Prison staff, prisoners anti- drug work -- drug workers all
:45:06. > :45:12.
:45:12. > :45:16.working together. The combination of that and with victims saying,
:45:16. > :45:20.this is the harm that you have caused me, can help.
:45:20. > :45:24.A tunic prison sentences longer, they are more effective because you
:45:24. > :45:29.have more time to work with the prisoner in jail? But you do not
:45:29. > :45:32.want to get at that point. If someone has committed a serious and
:45:32. > :45:37.violent offence then prison as the only option, but we should be
:45:37. > :45:40.focused on stopping at. What would you do with people who regard crime
:45:41. > :45:49.as a way of life and that there is a revolving door at the Crown
:45:49. > :45:53.Court? We do have to punish those people, but it is that -- but it is
:45:53. > :45:58.right that agencies have come together to make sure that crime is
:45:58. > :46:05.kept down. We will never win with 100 per cent of the people, but the
:46:05. > :46:11.chief constable said back in 1994, we need more nursery education.
:46:11. > :46:14.There is a 37 per cent drop in crime, it works. On that particular
:46:14. > :46:24.case, why it became famous as because he went on a safari is a
:46:24. > :46:28.young man at the taxpayer's offence. -- expense. I was outraged at that
:46:28. > :46:32.time, I could not afford to go abroad on holiday. I think we do
:46:32. > :46:37.need to look at different ways of punishing people, but also helping
:46:37. > :46:42.them back in. As a Farry is not a good idea. The need to give more
:46:42. > :46:45.discretion to the judges. There has been a tendency to limit that
:46:45. > :46:49.discretion, but the judge knows their individual that he is dealing
:46:49. > :46:54.worth and that people are different. There will be some people who have
:46:54. > :46:59.committed serious crimes, he need to be locked up for some time, and
:46:59. > :47:04.others who are redeemable. I do believe that people should be
:47:04. > :47:09.offered a second chance, and even a third chance, but not necessarily
:47:09. > :47:14.112 chances. It is harder to get to jail than to
:47:14. > :47:17.get to Oxford or Cambridge? much more expensive when you get in
:47:17. > :47:22.than going to Eton. Let us use it for the few people that need to be
:47:22. > :47:29.pit their. There are 100,000 core offenders
:47:29. > :47:36.who caused a great deal of crime. What do you do about them?
:47:36. > :47:39.Unavoidable minimum. What do we mean by that? Probably the number
:47:39. > :47:46.that when I investigated Strangeways prison. We are
:47:46. > :47:53.currently locking up 88,000 people. That is fast public offence -- vast
:47:53. > :47:57.public expense, a necessary. Crime has dropped by almost a third in
:47:57. > :48:03.the last two years. But that was after a decade of increasing crime.
:48:03. > :48:08.Are you going to argue about crime dropping? No, but it is coming down
:48:08. > :48:11.from a high level, that is what am saying. But it has dropped, the
:48:11. > :48:15.trouble is that good news stories do not make news, but this is
:48:15. > :48:19.something that all the political party should be proud of, because
:48:19. > :48:25.everyone has contributed and everyone supports restorative
:48:25. > :48:29.justice. We have an increase in police numbers in Somerset, that
:48:29. > :48:33.has made a huge difference. research does show that more
:48:33. > :48:38.policing does lead to a reduction in crime and of course, police
:48:39. > :48:48.numbers are being cut. It is worth bearing in mind that crime has cop
:48:48. > :48:52.-- crime has fallen very sharply now that there are higher numbers
:48:52. > :48:57.in prison. I think you have to be careful about looking at things at
:48:57. > :49:01.-- about how things have happened, before jumping to conclusions.
:49:01. > :49:05.Thank you very much. If you have literally got one minute to spare,
:49:06. > :49:09.let us catch up on some more political news for the week.
:49:09. > :49:12.It was an uncomfortable week for the Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg - not
:49:12. > :49:22.helped by this man, Bristol Councillor John Kiely. He stuck the
:49:22. > :49:22.
:49:22. > :49:26.boot in this week, calling for the Deputy Prime Minister to resign.
:49:26. > :49:32.There needs to be a reality check within the party. It is facing
:49:32. > :49:38.tough times ahead. You will always have people making comments,
:49:38. > :49:42.sometimes disobliging comments from the sidelines, that is politics.
:49:42. > :49:45.Wealthy people who own second homes in the Cotswolds will no longer get
:49:45. > :49:47.a 10% discount on their council tax. Other areas, like Bath and North
:49:47. > :49:49.East Somerset, are also considering scrapping the discount, claiming
:49:49. > :49:53.all homeowners should pay "their fair share".
:49:53. > :49:55.There have been more twists and turns than down a badger sett in
:49:55. > :49:58.the fight to stop Government plans for a badger cull in
:49:58. > :50:08.Gloucestershire and Somerset. This week, the High Court threw out an
:50:08. > :50:14.
:50:14. > :50:24.appeal by campaigners to stop the cull. They have a week to appeal.
:50:24. > :50:25.
:50:25. > :50:31.Council tax, the full whack on second homes. I have two. Just the
:50:31. > :50:35.two! I think it is perfectly reasonable. It was a saying that if
:50:35. > :50:39.you had a second home venue had fewer services. In an age of
:50:39. > :50:47.austerity, when everyone has to pay more, it is a reasonable discount
:50:47. > :50:52.to get rid of. I am in agreement with Jacob. I actually think that
:50:52. > :50:56.in these times of austerity if people can afford to two homes than
:50:56. > :51:01.they have to pay twice. I am more concerned with their elderly person
:51:01. > :51:05.living on his or her own who still find it very difficult to find 75
:51:05. > :51:08.per cent of the council tax. It seems that if we should cut
:51:08. > :51:13.something, we should cut the council tax for them.
:51:13. > :51:19.That is it for this series of the Sunday Politics. The government has
:51:19. > :51:23.done a U-turn on the caravan tax and Jacob is off to his second home