:01:39. > :01:44.Sunday Politics in the West... Marks men are taking aim at
:01:44. > :01:54.hundreds of people but is the culling right. And we take on three
:01:54. > :01:54.
:01:54. > :35:23.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2008 seconds
:35:23. > :35:27.Welcome to Sunday Politics in the West. As the marksmen take aim, the
:35:27. > :35:32.protesters are trying to stop them, could we be in very taste of the
:35:32. > :35:39.Wild West? More on that later but first I will introduce you to a
:35:39. > :35:43.couple of townies that are our guests this morning. Welcome to you
:35:43. > :35:48.both. I hope you had a good summer. This has been the week of the
:35:48. > :35:50.political apology with Nick Clegg. Is there anything you would like to
:35:50. > :35:56.apologise for or should politicians say sorry in addition to Nick
:35:56. > :36:02.Clegg? They should put their hands up and admit when they were wrong,
:36:02. > :36:07.as long as they are sincere and it is not just said for their benefit.
:36:07. > :36:11.But in Parliament this week we have the Hillsborough inquiry report,
:36:11. > :36:14.and David Cameron issued what he said was a double apology for the
:36:14. > :36:20.fact that it happened in the first place and that they had been a
:36:20. > :36:23.cover-up. It is very rare that I am impressed by him. The other
:36:23. > :36:29.encasing was the Bloody Sunday Inquiry and on dedications he
:36:29. > :36:35.handled it well. -- occasion. Sometimes an apology can take so
:36:36. > :36:41.long that the people that are given it cannot really take it sincerely.
:36:41. > :36:45.Tony Blair apologised about the Irish famine for example. And
:36:45. > :36:49.politicians apologise for mistakes made by predecessors. But in terms
:36:49. > :36:54.of this week, he has made it in a short period of time and he was
:36:54. > :36:59.right to do that. The Liberal Democrats are first or should I say
:36:59. > :37:05.is sorry party. Nick Clegg's apology attracted some attention.
:37:05. > :37:12.But the musical version online has been a massive hit. For I'm sorry,
:37:12. > :37:20.I'm sorry. I'm so, so, sorry. There is no easy way to say it, I'm sorry,
:37:20. > :37:29.I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm so, so, Surrey. There's no easy
:37:29. > :37:35.way to said. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. We will hold our hands up...
:37:35. > :37:39.are they singing from the same hymn sheet? Stephen abstained on the
:37:39. > :37:44.issue and if you thought people had forgotten about it, the world has
:37:45. > :37:48.been reminded. Once it was a mighty West Country fought for the Liberal
:37:48. > :37:54.Democrats but some people think their days are numbered. We went to
:37:54. > :38:00.see Nick Clegg and asked him why he was sorry. It was a mistake and it
:38:00. > :38:04.was wrong and we shouldn't have done it. About tuition fees?
:38:04. > :38:10.made a pledge against tuition fee rises under any circumstances which
:38:10. > :38:13.we could not and did not do. But what we did do was that in the
:38:13. > :38:19.circumstances, Labour had introduced tuition fees and top up
:38:19. > :38:24.fees despite saying that they would not, we have, we have asked
:38:24. > :38:29.students to have higher fees but in return, have a much more generous
:38:29. > :38:33.form of repayment. It is worth remembering that if you were at
:38:33. > :38:39.university last year, you start repaying these fees when you start
:38:39. > :38:45.earning �15,000. Under the new system designed by Vince Cable and
:38:45. > :38:54.David Willetts, you start paying at a much higher level of earnings. We
:38:54. > :39:00.will never accept a word of apology about the other issue. I tried to
:39:00. > :39:04.be totally upfront. But it could hurt you, could it? All of the
:39:05. > :39:12.seats that you hold. The way that they are pain will be more
:39:12. > :39:15.affordable. Actually, the money will go out of your account, week
:39:15. > :39:20.in and week out, it will be less than the money that is coming out
:39:20. > :39:24.of your account under the present system. That is not of course in
:39:24. > :39:29.any way an excuse for making a pledge which we cannot stick to
:39:29. > :39:33.which I have apologised for. But it is important that people understand
:39:33. > :39:38.the reality of the system that has been introduced. It is different to
:39:38. > :39:43.the allegations made about it. Other things have heard you in the
:39:43. > :39:48.opinion polls. We have got one coming out in November. It has been
:39:48. > :39:54.said that your best prospects are in the West Country. The Oval and
:39:55. > :40:01.Somerset Police Commissioner and the Bristol may have. -- the Oval
:40:01. > :40:06.and Somerset Police Commissioner. Do you agree they are your best
:40:06. > :40:12.prospects? We are all is the very strong as a party with a great
:40:12. > :40:16.reputation for a local service in Bristol and in Somerset and Avon.
:40:16. > :40:21.We will contest the mayoral election and the police and crime
:40:21. > :40:27.Commission election very vigorously indeed. It will be up for the
:40:27. > :40:32.candidates... Do you think you can win? If you look at our platform
:40:32. > :40:37.for the elections, people, whatever they think about what has happened
:40:37. > :40:39.in the past couple of years with the difficult decisions, will
:40:39. > :40:45.recognise that the Liberal Democrats are committed to Bristol,
:40:45. > :40:48.Somerset and Avon in a way that no other party has been. You have got
:40:48. > :40:55.a Wiltshire MP that has just been appointed to the parliamentary
:40:55. > :41:01.private secretary position we have been told that a previous
:41:01. > :41:09.parliamentary private secretary was very affectionate. We are not quite
:41:09. > :41:13.as affectionate as that. I do not need that for the job that I am
:41:14. > :41:23.enjoying and am privileged to do but I am a huge admirer of drunken
:41:24. > :41:29.
:41:29. > :41:35.haze. I think he will be an Nick Clegg talking to Paul Barltrop.
:41:35. > :41:39.Did you know that he was going to say sorry? Yes, he told MPs on
:41:39. > :41:43.Monday that he was going to do that in the run-up to the conference
:41:44. > :41:48.season. It came as a surprise but I am glad that he has done it. If he
:41:48. > :41:52.had done that last year, I do not think anybody would have listened
:41:52. > :41:56.because the anger was quite raw and this was probably the best time.
:41:56. > :42:01.lot of people had forgotten about it and it is ancient history and
:42:01. > :42:04.now he has reminded everybody and you represent a lot of students.
:42:04. > :42:08.But the anger has faded and that is the right time for him to make an
:42:08. > :42:17.apology for something we should not have done at the last general
:42:17. > :42:21.election. I am sorry for my role as well. You abstained. It yes. It was
:42:21. > :42:27.a situation where you promised the earth because he did not think that
:42:27. > :42:30.you were going to be in power. have been quite candid about this
:42:30. > :42:35.in the run-up to the election. I think that we should have either
:42:35. > :42:38.dropped completely or amended that pledge that we made about tuition
:42:38. > :42:43.fees to make it more realistic but we lost that argument inside the
:42:43. > :42:48.party. We tried to behave like a pressure group and not a political
:42:48. > :42:53.party. It is back on the agenda. Should Labour apologise for
:42:53. > :42:57.introducing tuition fees in the first place? We should have an
:42:57. > :43:00.element of students meeting the cost of their education. We are
:43:00. > :43:07.exploring options but we were against the tripling of the tuition
:43:07. > :43:13.fees. It was perfectly obvious to people. It was obvious it could not
:43:13. > :43:18.be afforded. I understand that Stephen did fight the case and he
:43:18. > :43:26.was aware it was going to be difficult, but he still put on his
:43:26. > :43:29.literature, may tuition fees. -- not to have tuition fees. They were
:43:29. > :43:33.feeling that they could have made these promises because they did not
:43:33. > :43:38.think they were going to be held accountable. Could you ever worked
:43:38. > :43:43.together? You have got your own Coalition with the Tories. Could
:43:43. > :43:48.you see a pact with the Liberal Democrats and Labour? One of our
:43:48. > :43:51.concerns is that we get this era of Coalition politics and the Liberal
:43:51. > :43:58.Democrats are bouncing backwards and forwards between the parties. I
:43:58. > :44:02.do not think people will work with Nick Clegg. That is because of the
:44:02. > :44:07.extent to which he has supported a very draconian Tory government
:44:07. > :44:17.economic plan. I have got people coming into my surgery affected by
:44:17. > :44:19.
:44:19. > :44:23.the Cup's all of the time. You have DUP -- the cuts. What the Tory
:44:23. > :44:27.government is doing with the help of the Liberal Democrats is
:44:27. > :44:31.stifling economic growth. We need that to be able to look for things.
:44:31. > :44:36.Lots to talk about because it is not just the Liberal Democrats
:44:36. > :44:40.getting ready for the conference this weekend. UKIP have met for two
:44:40. > :44:47.days in Birmingham, encouraged by what is happening in Europe. But it
:44:47. > :44:51.is back home that they need to make more progress. UKIP are smiling.
:44:51. > :44:57.European troubles have brought a surge in membership, including some
:44:57. > :45:00.people defecting in councils. The local party proudly paraded two for
:45:00. > :45:05.the Conservatives in South Gloucestershire, but they have got
:45:05. > :45:10.a tough battle in local elections. That might explain why UKIP have
:45:10. > :45:15.not come up with candidates for the West's next big contests for the
:45:15. > :45:20.mayoral elections and the police and crime Commissioner election. He
:45:20. > :45:25.said he will not tolerate that. will be disappointed if we did not
:45:25. > :45:28.come up with good candidates for Police crime Commissioner. All I
:45:28. > :45:32.can tell you is that the other parts of the country I have been
:45:32. > :45:38.too, we are finding candidates and good candidates and we intend to
:45:38. > :45:43.fight a proper campaign. I will be talking to UKIP South West this
:45:43. > :45:52.weekend. The European Parliament is where they have fared well
:45:52. > :46:02.electorally. Especially this MP. it will now move to the next
:46:02. > :46:02.
:46:02. > :46:05.speaker... He is wonderful, he has great vigour and in the European
:46:05. > :46:09.Parliament, more than any other member, he is thoroughly enjoying
:46:09. > :46:15.what he is doing and he is relishing the idea in 2014 in the
:46:15. > :46:25.West Country, topping the opinion polls. His strategy is Clare. To
:46:25. > :46:27.
:46:27. > :46:33.advance elections at the expense of Joining us is the chairman of
:46:33. > :46:39.Bristol West Conservatives. Welcome to the programme. How much of a
:46:39. > :46:49.threat is UKIP to the Tories at the moment? UKIP remains a protest vote
:46:49. > :46:56.and a minority division macro and will always be that way. -- vote.
:46:56. > :47:01.We need Europe and they need us. One not do a deal with them?
:47:01. > :47:06.terms of fielding candidates? because otherwise they will split
:47:06. > :47:13.your vote. What we must did before we consider that is make our
:47:13. > :47:19.position clear on Europe. We do need Europe in some form or other.
:47:19. > :47:25.We cannot just be saying, should we be in or out of Europe. Why are so
:47:25. > :47:33.many members of your party hung up about Europe? Why does it get such
:47:33. > :47:40.passion? That is a very interesting question. In all honesty, I am not
:47:40. > :47:49.sure. Do you agree with it? Europe is not really and area of expertise
:47:49. > :47:56.for me. -- an area. It is complicated. It is not. They hate
:47:56. > :48:05.Europe. I think people are keen that we do not drop our currency
:48:05. > :48:10.and use the European currency. That is part of the hatred of the Union.
:48:10. > :48:15.More to talk about later. What could be the biggest ever official
:48:15. > :48:21.slaughter? Wild animals in Britain. Gloucestershire has got his licence
:48:21. > :48:27.and Somerset's welcome in days but will culling badgers reduce TB in
:48:27. > :48:32.cattle? We have had concerns about safety as police take on marksmen.
:48:32. > :48:38.A time for action begins. This is what will soon be happening in West
:48:38. > :48:42.Country fields. The BBC's Country File programme spoke to a marked
:48:42. > :48:47.man that will be involved. He asked to be anonymous for fear of
:48:47. > :48:52.becoming a target himself. I went on a detailed training course and
:48:52. > :48:55.it was a very long day. The quality of the training I thought was very
:48:55. > :49:01.good. It was a mixture of theory and practical sessions and I had to
:49:01. > :49:07.complete an exam at the end. After that I had to go to a near the
:49:07. > :49:11.place and do a shooting assessment. -- Another Place. These activists
:49:11. > :49:14.have for months been seeking information about the coming and
:49:14. > :49:19.have been outside government offices and are prepared to break
:49:19. > :49:24.the law. It will be a challenge, said one former Chief Constable.
:49:24. > :49:28.will work hard to make sure that it can be done lawfully. But it will
:49:28. > :49:33.be very tricky. That is because of the complex legal situation and the
:49:34. > :49:41.fact that people at once to sabotage Beagle for enterprise,
:49:41. > :49:51.they will know when they can strike. -- the law for enterprise. -- legal
:49:51. > :49:53.
:49:53. > :49:58.enterprise are. But will it turn I am joined by a farmer in favour
:49:58. > :50:05.of the culling and our other guests are still here. Why do you want the
:50:05. > :50:11.badgers shot? I think politicians have ducked this issue for too long
:50:11. > :50:15.and the problem is getting worse. Have you lost animals on your farm?
:50:16. > :50:20.Yes, over a number of years and last year in particular. It is
:50:20. > :50:25.constant and at the moment we are not sure when it will get better.
:50:25. > :50:31.The it must be heartbreaking as a farmer. But are you absolutely sure
:50:31. > :50:36.that you can blame the badgers? think the evidence suggests that
:50:36. > :50:43.they are part of the tuberculosis problem. It is not just them. We
:50:43. > :50:53.have got other wildlife involved. But I think the scientists do think
:50:53. > :50:54.
:50:55. > :51:03.that Thatcher's are the primary source of reinfection. -- badges. -
:51:03. > :51:12.- these animals. The Conservatives are allowing this. As the party got
:51:12. > :51:16.it right? I do not think they have. I do sympathise completely. This is
:51:16. > :51:23.a big problem in this country. Not just for the likelihood of farmers
:51:23. > :51:27.but for the taxpayer. It will cost �100 million every year. But
:51:27. > :51:30.culling badgers, we understand through research that has been
:51:30. > :51:36.conducted by the last government, it has been scientifically proven
:51:36. > :51:46.that it cannot contribute to reducing TB in cattle. That was the
:51:46. > :51:47.
:51:47. > :51:52.conclusion. But it said that if you kill them, T B will come back.
:51:52. > :51:58.best outcome is a 10% reduction but then after nine years, you are
:51:58. > :52:04.still spending �85 million. Your party wants to cull them and you do
:52:05. > :52:11.not agree with it. You did not agree with it either, do you?
:52:11. > :52:16.may well be a government policy for the Government department to go
:52:16. > :52:20.ahead with. But I happen to disagree. I have written to
:52:21. > :52:26.hundreds of people telling them that. I think what would make the
:52:26. > :52:34.biggest difference is perhaps more control with the movement of cattle.
:52:34. > :52:40.Not just exterminating badgers, we should be looking for a vaccine.
:52:40. > :52:44.will come back to Kerry. We must deal with this issue. But also
:52:44. > :52:50.vaccination programmes. They are happening across the West Country.
:52:50. > :52:56.We have got scientific evidence which has suggested that culling
:52:56. > :53:04.would be ineffective if it had any effect at all. But who should be
:53:04. > :53:14.government been listening to? Quayside tests. David. --
:53:14. > :53:19.scientists. David. We are responding to the report. We might
:53:19. > :53:26.have a situation where the initial reduction in outbreaks is actually
:53:27. > :53:30.improving. People often talk about between 12 and 16 % but if we look
:53:31. > :53:38.at trial areas with the latest information, these numbers are
:53:38. > :53:46.increasing. And B vaccination argument, what about that? Cowls or
:53:46. > :53:52.badgers? Both. The problem is that if you vaccinate badgers that have
:53:52. > :53:56.already got TB, you on not having any results at all. Cattle vaccine
:53:56. > :54:01.is fine. But at the moment I do not think that you can go between a
:54:01. > :54:08.vaccinated animal and one that has got proper tuberculosis until you
:54:08. > :54:14.can differentiate, you are in a very difficult position. -- because
:54:14. > :54:17.until you can differentiate. Why is this such a difficult issue? I have
:54:17. > :54:20.raised this in Parliament for years and when the Government got elected
:54:20. > :54:25.I was worried they were waiting for political opportunism to get away
:54:25. > :54:29.with it. It was very clear the Minister wanted the culling to go
:54:29. > :54:35.ahead but they had a big row about forests which derailed the issue
:54:35. > :54:39.for a while. But I think now that the legal challenges have failed,
:54:39. > :54:45.that is why public attention is back on this issue. But I think we
:54:45. > :54:50.will have a big outcry that people do not want badgers killed. They
:54:50. > :54:57.will be an outcry and saboteurs are threatening to get out onto the
:54:57. > :55:00.field. Do you think it should go ahead? Yes, I think it should. It
:55:00. > :55:06.is not the complete answer but we must start somewhere. This is the
:55:07. > :55:16.first step. Thank you for coming in. Time to catch up on other political
:55:17. > :55:21.
:55:21. > :55:25.stories making the headlines this Mr Speaker... Age has not held back
:55:25. > :55:30.his 65-year-old MP from the Liberal Democrats. He made his first speech
:55:30. > :55:35.this week as communities minister. It is good to see that experience
:55:35. > :55:40.can triumph above youth. A after hours of debate, a decision about
:55:40. > :55:45.how much the mayoral candidate should be paid has been deferred.
:55:45. > :55:50.It has been a bit indecisive after failure to agree on whether it
:55:50. > :55:56.should be 40,000, 65,000, or somewhere in between. And one of
:55:56. > :56:01.the candidates, he is almost as red-faced as his trousers. He
:56:01. > :56:06.called one city to Irish and has since apologised and he has been
:56:06. > :56:09.criticised in a Twitter storm will stop a bunch of politically
:56:09. > :56:19.motivated eight-month --. A bunch of politically motivated hate
:56:19. > :56:20.
:56:20. > :56:22.mongers. This is local currency in Bristol, launched at this week.
:56:22. > :56:27.Those Bristol pounds are very attractive. We can pick up on one
:56:27. > :56:33.of those stories on Twitter with George Ferguson after this Irish
:56:33. > :56:37.comment. You are one of the people that objected. It was just a
:56:37. > :56:41.foolish thing to say. I was offended when he said that he
:56:41. > :56:45.adored the Irish and that they were some of his best friends. But to
:56:45. > :56:53.use that phrase a little bit Irish as a metaphor for something being a
:56:53. > :56:57.bit stupid, we have gone on from that, surely. You made a comment
:56:57. > :57:02.about people behaving selfishly on trains and somebody saying that
:57:02. > :57:08.they wished he had not been born and nobody apologised about that.
:57:08. > :57:15.It was obviously a joke but what he said, he uses that phrase as a
:57:15. > :57:22.metaphor for something being a bit stupid. I think he made it worse by
:57:22. > :57:27.then patronising the Irish as well. It is dangerous, Twitter, isn't it?
:57:27. > :57:35.Kerry is more they stole wart on Twitter. But you have got to be
:57:35. > :57:39.careful. -- is more experienced on Twitter. Sometimes you hear
:57:39. > :57:46.comments about the Welsh more than that you would like and you can get
:57:46. > :57:50.some abuse. Thank you very much. That is all we have got time for
:57:50. > :57:54.today. Thank you to Kerry and Stephen for joining us. If you