:01:37. > :01:41.In the West... Road the financial crisis in the town halls.
:01:41. > :01:51.His Eric Pickles squeezing the life out of local councillors, as
:01:51. > :01:51.
:01:51. > :37:05.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2114 seconds
:37:05. > :37:08.spending is reduced? Joined us for This is the Sunday Politics in the
:37:08. > :37:11.West. The Communities Secretary Eric Pickles has been attending a
:37:11. > :37:18.fundraising dinner in Bristol - well, it is dirty work, but someone
:37:18. > :37:21.has to do it. He has also been meeting Tory councillors in North
:37:21. > :37:29.Somerset who are feeling the squeeze - but do the smiles cover
:37:29. > :37:35.up the real tensions? We're very happy together. He is happy with
:37:35. > :37:38.the government, I'm happy with his council. So is it all sweetness and
:37:38. > :37:41.light in the town halls? We will find out the real story a bit later.
:37:41. > :37:44.But there is nothing touchy feely about our two guests this morning,
:37:44. > :37:47.because their politics are miles apart. James Gray is a colourful
:37:47. > :37:57.Conservative MP from Wiltshire. And Thangam Debbonaire is a gender
:37:57. > :38:00.
:38:00. > :38:05.equality activist and a Labour candidate in Bristol. Thangam,
:38:05. > :38:10.let's talk about equality. Has that warned not yet been won? A British
:38:10. > :38:15.sure it hasn't. I want to be part of making sure that walk gets one
:38:15. > :38:21.fairly. In terms of gender inequality, women are still likely
:38:21. > :38:26.to earn about one third of what men earn for all sorts of reasons. We
:38:26. > :38:34.still have a tiny minority of MPs in this country - always smaller
:38:34. > :38:44.than the brander, for instance. So there is still a lot to do. --
:38:44. > :38:45.
:38:45. > :38:49.smaller than Rwanda. We are all doing our best. We try to get women
:38:49. > :38:57.into Parliament, but it is how you do that. It doesn't suit women
:38:57. > :39:05.somehow. Having more women in their would change the atmosphere. It has
:39:05. > :39:11.already changed things on childcare and working hours. If you are
:39:11. > :39:20.representing Bristol, you don't want to go home at five o'clock. So
:39:20. > :39:24.actually this is child-friendly, this region. If you happen to be in
:39:25. > :39:28.Inverness or Cornwall, you can't get home to your kids at five.
:39:28. > :39:33.it would be terrible if MPs didn't have children will never saw their
:39:33. > :39:41.children. But what you're saying is that MPs would have their children
:39:41. > :39:50.in London. It only works if the MPs live in London! It is easy to say,
:39:50. > :39:55.but hard to do, that is my.. have appointed -- started yet. --
:39:55. > :39:58.that is my point. Labour supporters from across the
:39:58. > :40:01.west are off to Manchester this weekend for their annual knees up
:40:01. > :40:04.at conference. They will need their leader Ed Miliband to be on
:40:04. > :40:08.sparkling form if he is going to impress the country and increase
:40:08. > :40:12.Labour's lead in the polls. But can he reach out to the west - as Tony
:40:12. > :40:19.Blair did - and what does he stand for? I've been to meet him at his
:40:19. > :40:24.office in Westminster. Givers and blue of where you stand, you closer
:40:24. > :40:32.to Tony Blair or Tony Benn? I am Labour, that is what people need to
:40:32. > :40:42.know. I think really be did a lot of the good things but I am about
:40:42. > :40:48.
:40:48. > :40:54.moving on. -- I think New Labour did a lot of good things. My first
:40:54. > :40:59.priority will be to get young people back to work. How you going
:40:59. > :41:04.to do that? We are going to tax the bonuses of bankers and asked
:41:04. > :41:08.companies to provide training. When I go round the country, people say
:41:08. > :41:18.this is such a tragedy, young people are out of work for two or
:41:18. > :41:19.
:41:19. > :41:26.three years. You have spent those bankers bonuses at -- a million
:41:26. > :41:36.times over. No, I haven't. But we would have a youth employment task
:41:36. > :41:39.
:41:39. > :41:44.force. They would work with local council leaders. It is a big
:41:44. > :41:47.question, how do we get by young people back to work? This
:41:47. > :41:53.government promised change, they promised things would get better,
:41:53. > :41:58.but they got worse. Margaret Thatcher reached out to the West
:41:58. > :42:02.Country and turned it into a sea of blue. Tony Blair turned it read.
:42:02. > :42:06.How will you get people in Swindon and Gloucester, those people you
:42:06. > :42:13.have to reach it you have any chance of going across the road
:42:13. > :42:17.into Number Ten? We will be talking at a conference about how we can
:42:17. > :42:24.cut energy bills for people, make a difference for people. But you
:42:24. > :42:28.haven't got a magic bullet. There is no simple solution. Well, the
:42:28. > :42:33.problem with this government is all we offer people is the long haul. I
:42:33. > :42:38.say to people who voted Conservative at the last election,
:42:38. > :42:48.some people gave Mr Cameron their trust, and I say to them, we have
:42:48. > :42:50.
:42:50. > :43:00.had to 0.5 years and people are suffering more not less. -- We've
:43:00. > :43:00.
:43:00. > :43:08.had 2.5 years. Isn't it true that there is not enough rich people to
:43:08. > :43:11.pay the price? Middle and lower income earners also have to suffer.
:43:11. > :43:16.The missing ingredient at the moment is economic growth. If you
:43:16. > :43:25.end up with everybody on the dole claiming benefits and not paying
:43:25. > :43:31.taxes, fewer benefits available, borrowing will rise. To borrow is
:43:31. > :43:36.rising under this government. That is why we need to show a different
:43:36. > :43:42.path to the future. If the Bristol mayor is elected, what do you think
:43:42. > :43:47.the salary should be? I pay double the salaries in Bristol to people
:43:47. > :43:57.in Bristol. I think Martin will be a fantastic met. He has shown that
:43:57. > :44:04.he understands what people care about. I will be supporting them. -
:44:04. > :44:08.- a fantastic mayor. Thangham and James were all ears
:44:08. > :44:14.listening to that. Thangham - had you heard about this latest idea to
:44:14. > :44:18.deal with youth unemployment? really liked his concern about
:44:18. > :44:23.youth unemployment. That is something I hear all the time when
:44:23. > :44:30.I talk to people. But I also liked what he said about who is paying
:44:30. > :44:40.for the crisis. You said something about the lower and middle income
:44:40. > :44:42.
:44:42. > :44:46.people paying the price. This government actually gave those rich
:44:46. > :44:54.people are tax-break recently. Low- income people are wondering why
:44:54. > :45:00.they are being punished. Had you read about this latest plan? Some
:45:00. > :45:04.of that was mentioned in last year's speech. On Question Time
:45:04. > :45:11.this week, Harriet Harman said bankers bonuses would be taxed to
:45:11. > :45:17.fund cheaper housing. So how many times will they be taxed? There are
:45:17. > :45:24.lots of different ways of spending a bank bonus. If you tax their
:45:24. > :45:34.bonuses, that is an awful lot of money. Spending that Maxwell is
:45:34. > :45:38.
:45:38. > :45:42.part of what aid is going to do. -- what Ed is going to do. James Gray,
:45:42. > :45:45.youth unemployment must be a priority they any party. A you
:45:45. > :45:55.ashamed that there over one million young people in a country out of
:45:55. > :46:08.
:46:08. > :46:14.work? Of course we must do something about it. In my own
:46:14. > :46:22.constituency, 823,000 are unemployed. This is a lost
:46:22. > :46:27.generation. We must do something about this, but Labour ignore the
:46:27. > :46:37.fact that they were in power for 18 years. We are where we are today
:46:37. > :46:39.
:46:39. > :46:45.because of what they did. Mr Miliband is a nice man. Not one
:46:45. > :46:53.single person watching today can imagine him becoming Prime Minister.
:46:53. > :46:56.Ed Balls is much more worrying. He is a professional. Blaming the
:46:56. > :47:02.Labour Party for the financial crisis is getting very tiring. You
:47:02. > :47:06.have been in power of the two and a half years. People may have on that
:47:06. > :47:11.under the Tories in the 1990s you were in deficit almost all of those
:47:11. > :47:20.years. Saying that we are to blame for the entire financial crisis is
:47:20. > :47:25.ridiculous. We did not cause the financial crisis in America.
:47:25. > :47:30.right, we will talk more about the economy later. Eric Pickles has
:47:30. > :47:37.been given some local councillors are hard recently. But off camera,
:47:37. > :47:40.they claimed he squeezing the life but out of local government. Even
:47:40. > :47:46.North Somerset, which is very conservative, is wondering how it
:47:46. > :47:49.will manage. This is street-level politics...
:47:49. > :47:56.And it doesn't look good. It's one of the most potholed roads in North
:47:56. > :48:00.Somerset. Residents rail at the council. Obviously we are all
:48:00. > :48:06.pretty appalled. It makes you feel undervalued as a member of
:48:06. > :48:12.community. It makes you wonder why you pay your taxes. It's dangerous,
:48:12. > :48:16.really dangerous. It's absolutely terrible. It has been like this
:48:16. > :48:20.since we moved in. I thought they would do something about it, but
:48:20. > :48:23.they haven't. Sorry, say the Conservative-run
:48:23. > :48:26.council - but money's tight. In fact, they warn they may have to
:48:26. > :48:33.chop tens of millions of pounds more, despite several years of
:48:33. > :48:36.belt-tightening. More than most councils, they feel their been
:48:37. > :48:41.doing what the government won and two. They say they had been
:48:41. > :48:51.streamlining for years. They have just two offices that staff work
:48:51. > :48:54.from - they used to the 18th. And yet the financial crisis continues.
:48:54. > :48:56.-- there used to be 18. On Tuesday the council leader
:48:56. > :48:59.showed off town hall improvements - an energy efficient building, lots
:48:59. > :49:02.of staff hot-desking, and encouraging the public to access
:49:02. > :49:05.services via computers. It will help save �700,000 a year. But that
:49:05. > :49:12.won't be enough - by 2018 there may be only enough money to fund social
:49:12. > :49:15.services. So he had this message for ministers. When we are already
:49:15. > :49:18.one of most efficient councils in country, spending 61% on care
:49:18. > :49:23.services, can you tell me how we are supposed to maintain roads and
:49:23. > :49:26.collect rubbish without any funding whatsoever?
:49:26. > :49:30.Two days later, he got to ask the top man - Secretary of State Eric
:49:30. > :49:33.Pickles came to visit. There was plenty of smiling and
:49:33. > :49:37.posing for pictures - after all, this was arranged by the
:49:37. > :49:47.Conservatives. Then they went inside to talk - away from the
:49:47. > :49:50.cameras. And afterwards there was this. We're very happy together. We
:49:50. > :49:56.bonded, in the way. He is happy with the government, I am happy
:49:56. > :49:59.with his council. Can you guarantee this council will get more money?
:49:59. > :50:04.It's not my guarantee that you need to be concerned about, it is the
:50:04. > :50:10.guarantee of a good, well run local council. That is why we're changing
:50:10. > :50:14.the system. In your estimation, is it a well run council? It is a
:50:14. > :50:18.wonderful Council. He is changing the system so councils may raise
:50:18. > :50:26.more from business rates. But it was not the answer the council
:50:26. > :50:31.leader have wanted. They clearly disagreed on camera -- off camera.
:50:31. > :50:36.He has lost a sense of touch with the common people. You can say
:50:36. > :50:46.something -- you can say anything to him. Of course, he is top.
:50:46. > :50:46.
:50:47. > :50:50.more you Frank? Oh, yes. -- were you frank?
:50:50. > :50:53.All was polite as the Secretary of State left. In North Somerset they
:50:53. > :50:56.will now be working out what to cut next year. In Whitehall they'll be
:50:56. > :50:59.deciding how much councils must cut in the years after that.
:50:59. > :51:03.With me now is the former Lib Dem leader of Bristol City Council,
:51:03. > :51:07.Barbara Janke, who joins us for the first time since she stood down
:51:07. > :51:10.earlier this year. Well, North Somerset reckon the way things are
:51:10. > :51:19.going they will have no money for anything apart from social services
:51:19. > :51:24.in a few years' time. Do you have similar worries in Bristol? Well,
:51:24. > :51:29.our budget is much bigger, being a city of half a million people. But
:51:29. > :51:34.social services is by far and away the largest area or on the council
:51:34. > :51:38.funding. Clearly, councils these days, the services they provide are
:51:38. > :51:44.mainly for people who are more vulnerable, people who don't have
:51:44. > :51:48.the same amount of income, the same advantages as many others. So those
:51:48. > :51:52.people are being cut disproportionately. Now that you
:51:52. > :51:56.are no longer in the top job, you can be honest. Do local council
:51:56. > :52:01.leaders cry wolf, saying they have not got enough cash when actually
:52:01. > :52:08.they know they are running fairly inefficient organisations? I pay
:52:08. > :52:14.I'll always honest, and I will be honest now. Clearly there are some
:52:14. > :52:17.savings that could be made. We have made savings of over �50 million in
:52:17. > :52:23.the last few years. That was achieved by doing things
:52:23. > :52:28.differently, by prioritising what were universal benefits for
:52:28. > :52:35.vulnerable children - they and are targeted so we get less children
:52:35. > :52:40.who are picked up, if you like, as needing extra support. So you can
:52:40. > :52:45.make savings, but after two years at that level of cuts, it is
:52:45. > :52:50.difficult to find savings that won't impact very seriously on the
:52:50. > :52:56.city's more vulnerable people. council-tax be frozen again?
:52:56. > :53:01.not in a position to know that. I'm not in the cabinet any more. But
:53:01. > :53:05.that is another way money could be raised to pay for the services. I
:53:05. > :53:10.think it will be the new mayor who will have that decision to make
:53:10. > :53:14.when they are elected. James Gray, is it fair that local a authorities
:53:14. > :53:21.are being kept with their budgets so tightly controlled by
:53:21. > :53:27.Westminster? Well, I used to be a special adviser to the Prime
:53:27. > :53:34.Minister. A local authority turned up and said it would be a disaster.
:53:34. > :53:39.In Wiltshire, for example, we have cut �250 million from the Budget.
:53:39. > :53:45.We have got rid of five rural district councils. We have frozen
:53:45. > :53:50.council tax, services are as good as they are. We got rid of 250
:53:50. > :53:57.managerial jobs. By doing this sort of thing, Wiltshire council have
:53:57. > :54:02.saved an enormous amount. You spend a fortune hiring a chief executive
:54:02. > :54:11.and you then got rid of them. was the Liberals. A so you can take
:54:11. > :54:21.all the credit for the savings. quarter of the government's total
:54:21. > :54:22.
:54:22. > :54:28.budget is spent on local councils. What do you think, Thangam? I think
:54:28. > :54:33.what Eric Pickles has done is clever. He has managed to pass the
:54:33. > :54:43.blame to the local authorities. It will be their fault if council tax
:54:43. > :54:44.
:54:44. > :54:50.goes up. The amount of housing benefit has been changed but it is
:54:50. > :54:57.local authority who as to deal with it. Not Somerset is very Tory, they
:54:57. > :55:07.are the ones saying we don't have any more to cut. They didn't quite
:55:07. > :55:08.
:55:08. > :55:16.say that. Eric and the leader were great mates by the end of your clip.
:55:16. > :55:21.We are the mould -- the most centralised government. The
:55:21. > :55:25.Treasury takes 80% of all finance and then reallocate assets. If you
:55:25. > :55:29.want local councils to take decisions, if you want them to be
:55:29. > :55:36.proactive, it would be much better to give them more powers over
:55:36. > :55:46.finance. That way it is accountable, rather than the government dulling
:55:46. > :55:51.
:55:51. > :55:56.our bits-and-pieces. -- doling out bits. Business rates are also not
:55:56. > :56:03.differentiated. You don't benefit if you're doing well.
:56:03. > :56:07.It is time now for our weekly political round up in 60 seconds.
:56:07. > :56:10.He is one of the Tories most right- wing backbenchers, but Jacob Rees-
:56:10. > :56:20.Mogg's hard exterior gave way to his softer side with a bit of love
:56:20. > :56:23.
:56:23. > :56:27.for his coalition colleagues. -- one of the Tory's. I think the Nick
:56:27. > :56:32.Clegg - I can hardly bring myself to say this - was rather noble game
:56:32. > :56:35.going into coalition to the great disadvantage of his party.
:56:35. > :56:39.But do his Lib Dem colleagues share his love? Our friends at the Daily
:56:39. > :56:46.Politics went to their conference and asked some of our MPs who they
:56:46. > :56:52.woud be happy to share power with next. I know, I'm not doing it on
:56:52. > :57:00.camera! If you are facing the fight of your
:57:00. > :57:03.life, then call on action man. Paddy Ashdown is heading up our new
:57:03. > :57:07.election team. He is a hero in Somerset and for
:57:07. > :57:15.Lib Dems everywhere - there is no doubt he will be leading some good
:57:16. > :57:21.hand to hand combat at the next election.
:57:21. > :57:24.James Gray, what do you think of Nick Clegg? I would like it to be a
:57:24. > :57:29.Conservative government whip a Conservative majority. So I don't
:57:29. > :57:36.like the coalition, I very much hope after the next election we
:57:36. > :57:40.have a coalition -- a Conservative government. Barbara, were you proud
:57:40. > :57:44.of them at the conference? Is a standing up enough for the party?
:57:44. > :57:50.He is nothing short of heroic. The unfair treatment he receives from
:57:50. > :58:00.just about everybody is quite beyond belief. I think he has been
:58:00. > :58:01.
:58:01. > :58:06.a very strong leader and I don't think any of us are can argue
:58:06. > :58:10.against that. I have led a rainbow cabinet of three parties. The issue
:58:10. > :58:17.is policies - and what are we trying to achieve and what can we
:58:17. > :58:23.achieve together? Some people would say you have been a cover for the
:58:23. > :58:27.cuts. Well, I don't disagree with that. I think we had a very unfair
:58:27. > :58:31.representation for the media. Thangam, would you go into
:58:31. > :58:40.coalition with the Lib Dems? I pick it is interesting what James Gray
:58:40. > :58:45.said. It is not surprising what a decent. We basically do have a
:58:45. > :58:49.Conservative government. It is unfortunate that what we actually
:58:49. > :58:55.have is tax-breaks for millionaires and harder bins for the hard-up
:58:55. > :59:00.people. It is basically a Conservative government. Working
:59:00. > :59:05.people are the ones paying the price. If the election isn't clear
:59:05. > :59:10.cut next time round, would Labour do a deal with the Lib Dems? Well,
:59:10. > :59:16.that is three years away and I will be fighting to win. But would you?
:59:16. > :59:19.I'm not the leader of the Labour Party so it is not up to me. But I
:59:19. > :59:24.will lead to be an effective Labour government. We shall have to see.
:59:24. > :59:29.At the moment, the coalition continues. Nick Clegg did not have
:59:29. > :59:33.a bad week, did he? I think he had a good week. I think we will see
:59:33. > :59:37.people looking at long-term benefits. It is easy mid-term
:59:37. > :59:41.government for Labour to say these things at the moment. Three ways is
:59:41. > :59:49.a long way ahead. Thank you very much. That is all from us for now.