:01:24. > :01:27.In the West - David Cameron and the Police. Hundreds of thousands of us
:01:27. > :01:30.are due to vote for new Commissioners in just a few weeks'
:01:30. > :01:40.time. Can the Prime Minister convince you that it's worth the
:01:40. > :01:40.
:01:40. > :37:13.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2132 seconds
:37:13. > :37:17.Hello, we will soon be voting for new police and crime commissioners,
:37:17. > :37:22.but what are we supposed to be voting for? I will ask the Prime
:37:22. > :37:25.Minister if his big idea is what bothering with. I got into Downing
:37:26. > :37:31.Street without upsetting the officers on the gate, they were
:37:31. > :37:36.charming! Helping us with our inquiries today, Charlotte Leslie,
:37:36. > :37:40.a Conservative from Bristol, and Tessa Munt, at the Liberal
:37:40. > :37:45.Democrats. Anything you may say, it may be taken down in writing and
:37:45. > :37:50.used against you, but I hope you will be brave and confess! What
:37:50. > :37:58.about this idea of police commissioners? I am very for that
:37:58. > :38:02.idea and more so as the campaign goes on. So many people ask why the
:38:02. > :38:06.police are not doing more about anti-social behaviour, etc? People
:38:06. > :38:13.now have someone who is accountable for the priorities of the police
:38:13. > :38:18.and that is really good. We should not have politicised police
:38:18. > :38:23.management. So I am not in favour. Having said that, I am completely
:38:23. > :38:30.in favour of the Liberal Democrats -- in favour of the Liberal-
:38:30. > :38:40.Democrat candidate in this area. We were obliged to put one up. Our man
:38:40. > :38:45.cut all the funding -- Mr Maddock cut the funding for PCSOs and if we
:38:45. > :38:50.had him in control, but we would have to challenge that stomach
:38:50. > :38:58.there is not going to be much money floating around and Mr Madoc is
:38:58. > :39:01.superb and has a lot of experience of my knitting for budget. --
:39:01. > :39:04.managing. He has wasted money closing
:39:04. > :39:12.libraries and spent three-quarters of a million pounds setting them up
:39:12. > :39:16.again, he is out of control! A we will talk more later on, and
:39:17. > :39:21.other candidates are available! They are on the website.
:39:21. > :39:26.The exercise of voting for police commissioners will cost �75 million
:39:26. > :39:31.across the country, so is it worth it? We have turned detective.
:39:31. > :39:41.On the streets of the West, no sign of election fever. Almost no-one
:39:41. > :39:41.
:39:41. > :39:48.seems to know. Please Commissioner, no! I know it is soon, but I do not
:39:48. > :39:53.know when. I do not know! No idea. And never heard of it. I attitudes
:39:53. > :39:57.may be linked to events, crime has been falling for nearly two decades
:39:57. > :40:02.but a lot of public money is being spent so we can have a direct say
:40:02. > :40:06.in how police forces are run. Election officers are grappling
:40:06. > :40:10.with holding complicated votes using a different ballot paper that
:40:10. > :40:14.people may not understand. So more expense. The Electoral Commission
:40:14. > :40:22.is running gaffer's. He will explain how to fill in the ballot
:40:22. > :40:27.paper. The money spent on this is just for starters. To run campaigns
:40:27. > :40:33.across entire police force areas will cost parties a lot. In Avon
:40:33. > :40:38.and Somerset, each candidate can spend more than �220,000. It has
:40:38. > :40:43.brought protests from independents, who feel they are being priced out
:40:43. > :40:46.of the process. The cost deters even the Liberal Democrats, who are
:40:46. > :40:50.less enthusiastic about Commissioners than their coalition
:40:50. > :40:55.partners, especially the Home Secretary. They will be highly
:40:55. > :40:59.visible, chosen directly by the people and accountable by the
:40:59. > :41:04.people -- to the people. This experiment take shape on November
:41:04. > :41:07.15th, regardless of whether people vote or even care!
:41:07. > :41:13.The expense is one of the issues I brought up with the Prime Minister.
:41:13. > :41:17.I met him at Number Ten. Prime Minister, why are we spending
:41:17. > :41:22.this money alerting Police Commissioner -- Police Commission
:41:22. > :41:28.has come up when police forces in the West are cutting PCs on the
:41:28. > :41:34.beat? A green league proper police accountability. -- we need. You
:41:34. > :41:37.walk down a village or street and ask people who will is on the
:41:37. > :41:40.police authority on what powers they have and they will not be able
:41:40. > :41:46.to tell you. In the future, at elected police commissioners will
:41:46. > :41:49.be seen by the public as their voice. Who wants them? I won at
:41:49. > :41:54.them and I think the public will welcome them when they see when
:41:54. > :41:58.they want to push the police to do more on domestic burglary and
:41:58. > :42:03.challenge issues in the community, they have someone to talk to.
:42:03. > :42:08.how can they do that when officers are being cut? The present had of
:42:08. > :42:13.officers on the front line is going up. Difficult financial decisions
:42:13. > :42:16.are being made in a climate when crime is falling, and public
:42:16. > :42:21.confidence and law and order is going up. These are difficult
:42:21. > :42:24.decisions, but we saw this week with the news saw this -- serve as
:42:24. > :42:26.launch of one organisation providing helicopters for the
:42:26. > :42:31.crease services and the country, you can save money and providing
:42:31. > :42:36.better service. Bid chief Constable of Gloucestershire resigned earlier
:42:36. > :42:42.this year and said his force was on the edge of the cliff -- the chief
:42:42. > :42:45.constable. A do not accept that. The percentage of officers on the
:42:45. > :42:50.front line is up, public confidence in law and order is up, crime is
:42:50. > :42:58.down, and the police are doing an excellent job. They are not alone
:42:58. > :43:01.in taking difficult decisions. Cuts across the board have been made,
:43:01. > :43:07.except for the National Health Service. In the police, they have
:43:07. > :43:10.done very well! This new police commissioners will impose the Cup.
:43:10. > :43:14.-- the new. They are therefore accountability so when people are
:43:14. > :43:18.not satisfied on when they want greater action on transport crime,
:43:18. > :43:24.they want to bring to the attention of the police took a public order,
:43:24. > :43:30.in future they will have one person they are accountable to. But still
:43:30. > :43:35.has narrowly voted to have an elected Mayor -- Bristol. The sea
:43:35. > :43:41.in principle, they will have one person they come praise -- it is
:43:41. > :43:44.the same principle. It will be great for Bristol.
:43:44. > :43:50.What will you give Bristol in return?
:43:50. > :43:55.To say to the new Mayor of Bristol, what is it Bristol most wants? What
:43:55. > :44:01.changes can you make to attract Bristol -- business to the city?
:44:01. > :44:09.What power can we devolve to you to do that? It is much easier with one
:44:09. > :44:15.person. And she will deliver? course. And this is the year it you
:44:15. > :44:21.tried to tax static caravans and pastries, you do not get working
:44:21. > :44:25.people, do you, that is what true opponents say? We have taken the 2
:44:25. > :44:31.million lowest-paid people in this country out of income tax. When you
:44:31. > :44:35.are dealing with a budget deficit bigger than Greece, you have to
:44:35. > :44:41.take difficult decisions. Sum you can follow through with. And some
:44:41. > :44:47.we have taken and have had to make changes, you do that in government.
:44:47. > :44:53.But we are in government in a difficult time and I think people
:44:53. > :45:00.understand that and understand you do not get everything right.
:45:00. > :45:03.The Prime Minister. A lot to talk about. Very robust defence of these
:45:03. > :45:08.police and crime commissioners. What do you reckon the turnout in
:45:08. > :45:14.your pot of the world will be? would not want to put money on that
:45:14. > :45:19.-- I would not. I imagine quite low because just the recognition of the
:45:19. > :45:22.fact there is a date in the diary this is going to happen is low. I
:45:22. > :45:27.feel strongly no information is being sent out to people and the
:45:28. > :45:34.way that would normally happens. were be difficult for people to
:45:34. > :45:39.vote on party lines -- it will be. They all want the same, roughly, so
:45:39. > :45:45.how do people choose? He it will be difficult and the information has
:45:45. > :45:49.not been supplied -- it will be difficult. This is the first one
:45:50. > :45:54.and it will be en grande and our political experience. Every time
:45:54. > :45:58.there is the first time election it will be difficult. But it will be
:45:58. > :46:01.interesting as people begin to realise in a few years' time that
:46:01. > :46:06.they are collecting the person who drives the priorities for the
:46:06. > :46:10.police force. Up Prime Minister's run which was interesting. I
:46:10. > :46:15.challenge him about the falling number of officers and he said the
:46:15. > :46:20.proportion of officers on the front line is higher, and that is true,
:46:20. > :46:25.but there are fewer, that is the truth. It is interesting speaking
:46:25. > :46:29.to the police, they want better communication gadgetry. The
:46:30. > :46:33.replication of information they have to do when they rests on his
:46:33. > :46:37.extraordinary. Why do police not have technology that can make a
:46:37. > :46:41.difference? Particularly when time is tight. Police commissioners can
:46:41. > :46:47.be good at pushing forward that kind of thing. A week to talk about
:46:47. > :46:52.whether your leader is out of touch with ordinary people -- we talked
:46:52. > :46:59.about. He had to do you turns on a caravan Tax, for example. It does
:46:59. > :47:04.he gets it? Completely. If you do not listen to people when they say
:47:04. > :47:09.you are wrong, people say you are out of touch. If you change things,
:47:09. > :47:14.people say, you should not have changed things. There were
:47:14. > :47:19.anomalies on the pastry tax, he does get it. But it is a really
:47:19. > :47:23.difficult task. They arrive at a lot of people -- there are a lot of
:47:23. > :47:27.people who could have told the Chancellor and David Cameron those
:47:27. > :47:32.were bad ideas before they were put forward. We should listen before we
:47:32. > :47:38.speak and think about things beforehand, then we do not get into
:47:38. > :47:45.such a mess by putting forward these proposals. It would not have
:47:45. > :47:50.been very difficult to ask people in Yorkshire for example what would
:47:50. > :48:00.happen if you applied VAT to static caravans. We had to explain it at
:48:00. > :48:08.the Treasury. We went to the Treasury, who listened. He was
:48:08. > :48:13.ignored! I do not know! Dave it can rent is keen on saying that we have
:48:13. > :48:20.taken 2 million ordinary people out of tax -- David Cameron. That was
:48:20. > :48:25.front page of the manifesto, but let's see if we go further. Our
:48:25. > :48:29.policy for our party has a target of 12 million.
:48:29. > :48:32.It is one of the biggest white elephants and the West, the
:48:32. > :48:40.regional fire control centre in Taunton has not taken his single
:48:40. > :48:45.999 call, and yet it is costing us all �100,000 a month. Now, in a bid
:48:45. > :48:51.to recoup some of the wasted money, the government is going to rent out
:48:51. > :48:54.the building. In an emergency, every second
:48:54. > :49:02.counts. The quicker your call is answered, the quicker help will
:49:02. > :49:08.arrive. Mack your call is answered by a local person in your area. --
:49:08. > :49:12.your calls. Currently, there are five control centres across the
:49:12. > :49:21.West, like this one, but the last government promised to change
:49:21. > :49:27.things by merging the centres into one centres. -- one that centre. No
:49:27. > :49:31.longer will calls be diverted between centres, but a pledge to
:49:31. > :49:36.create a super control centre in Taunton, with state of the art
:49:36. > :49:39.computer systems are making things quicker and cheaper. It was under
:49:39. > :49:43.Labour in 2004 that the fire control project was first set up to
:49:43. > :49:47.improve efficiency and technology within the fire service, and to
:49:47. > :49:52.make the country better prepared for a national emergencies and
:49:52. > :49:57.major incidents. The plan for Tom Turner was that 999 cause would be
:49:57. > :50:02.handled from Wiltshire through to Cornwall -- at for Taunton. The
:50:02. > :50:07.unions always hated the idea. made it clear to the government
:50:07. > :50:11.these proposals could not and would not work -- we made it clear. The
:50:11. > :50:16.idea to close seven control rooms across the South words -- South
:50:16. > :50:20.West and replace it with one facility was madness. We made it
:50:20. > :50:25.clear to government these plans would not work in that form. To
:50:25. > :50:29.replace highly professional emergency control operators with
:50:29. > :50:34.microchips was deeply flawed from the outset! And Noel emergency call
:50:34. > :50:38.has been answered here -- no emergency call. The project was
:50:38. > :50:47.mothballed by the coalition and 2010. They lay the blame with
:50:47. > :50:53.Labour politicians, including the fire minister at the time. It now
:50:53. > :51:00.costs of the �6,000 in electricity, nearly �29,000 in maintenance, over
:51:00. > :51:04.�100,000 in rent every single month. Total cost to the tax payer, �1.6
:51:04. > :51:08.million each year. Bit were told from the start it would not work
:51:08. > :51:12.but they pushed ahead regardless -- they were told. Hundreds of
:51:12. > :51:16.millions of pounds has been squandered. The first Labour
:51:16. > :51:20.government gave us this building, the coalition government had failed
:51:20. > :51:26.to capitalise for use it. Taxpayers' money has been wasted
:51:26. > :51:30.and no-one has been held to account. Built as a private finance
:51:30. > :51:40.initiative, police will not run out until 27th so it is up for rent as
:51:40. > :51:41.
:51:41. > :51:45.a solution, yours at just far hundred and �50,000 a year. --
:51:45. > :51:49.�450,000. But the unions say the government has failed to learn from
:51:49. > :51:58.this costly mistake. To joining the debate is former
:51:58. > :52:03.Labour MP David Drew. How does the Labour government think this is a
:52:03. > :52:09.good idea? It was a shambles from the start and as Tam McFarlane
:52:09. > :52:16.explains, they were told and they were warned and they ignored it.
:52:16. > :52:21.has been one of the worst plans of New Labour. But why? Chief fire
:52:21. > :52:26.officers and firefighters were saying they but successive
:52:26. > :52:30.ministers did not listen, why? it was the vanity of John Prescott
:52:30. > :52:34.among others who felt they knew best and it fitted the regional
:52:34. > :52:40.agenda. We felt strongly in Gloucestershire, because we had an
:52:40. > :52:45.excellent fire centre, and they just tried to drive it through. But
:52:45. > :52:48.it was destined to fail from the word go and I was pleased to work
:52:48. > :52:53.with a group to undermine it and make sure it did not work, because
:52:54. > :53:01.it was the wrong approach. Sadly, the legacy still exists with the
:53:01. > :53:06.costs. Worthies of a private -- worthies of a private finance
:53:06. > :53:10.initiatives mistakes? -- work these. It was the only game in town
:53:10. > :53:14.because we had the restraint of public sector borrowing
:53:14. > :53:20.requirements, so this was seen as a smart way to borrow against future
:53:20. > :53:24.requirements, but it has not worked. A even in the good times, the
:53:24. > :53:34.Labour had Max doubt on their credit card and finding new way of
:53:34. > :53:37.
:53:37. > :53:41.finding credit? -- maxed out. was about getting the credit going,
:53:41. > :53:48.hospitals were in need of refurbishment, etc. But the deals
:53:48. > :53:51.that were done were so bad and so costly and the people doing them,
:53:51. > :53:58.as we have seen with the West Coast line this week, when not skills in
:53:58. > :54:03.negotiating the price. I am just saying that people under taking
:54:03. > :54:11.negotiating were not good at what they were doing. Is there any
:54:11. > :54:18.defence of this? And would not want to defend it in the slightest -- I
:54:18. > :54:23.would not. I think PFI it is an appalling way to go -- is an
:54:23. > :54:29.appalling way to go. Coalition is a way to get us out of this hideous
:54:29. > :54:34.mess and that is a good example of how we got to that stage. Berry �70
:54:34. > :54:42.billion worth of borrowed money through PFI which we know already,
:54:42. > :54:46.be estimates for paying back of 300 billion -- and there is. I think
:54:46. > :54:51.you make sure you know exactly what you are doing before you borrow
:54:51. > :54:55.money. This is pay-day loans for government and it is disgraceful!
:54:55. > :55:02.If you did not have this, schools would not have been built and
:55:02. > :55:06.hospitals. Firstly, it is about a Labour government who were out of
:55:07. > :55:11.touch. Speak to any firefighter and they say the local knowledge was
:55:11. > :55:15.crucial in getting the vehicle to way you wanted and you cannot
:55:15. > :55:19.replicate that with a computer chip. And the public sector is
:55:19. > :55:23.historically really bad at negotiating the private sector, so
:55:23. > :55:29.you have private contractors running riot. Juice sort that out,
:55:29. > :55:33.we need to look at how we negotiate those contracts -- to sort that out.
:55:33. > :55:40.When you are in government, you seem to get this arrogance about
:55:40. > :55:47.going ahead with a project everyone is advising you not to do, whether
:55:47. > :55:52.it is Police Commissioner has all this. -- all this. Civil servants
:55:52. > :55:56.are individually good people working hard, it is the system to
:55:56. > :56:01.blame and not the individuals and the individuals do not often have
:56:01. > :56:07.access to real world knowledge that you need to make good decisions.
:56:07. > :56:14.And the way the system works, the - - we now have the luxury of a five-
:56:14. > :56:18.year term, nobody can change the system. We have to rush ahead and
:56:19. > :56:28.take a look back at the political week. Which only have 60 seconds
:56:29. > :56:30.
:56:30. > :56:35.for it. -- we only have. A to the Labour conference.
:56:35. > :56:40.8 David Letterman style welcome for the man who wants to be Mayor of
:56:40. > :56:43.Bristol. Bristol is a fantastic city and if I can tempt you to
:56:43. > :56:48.bring a future Labour Party conference here, you can taste it
:56:49. > :56:54.for yourself! And Miliband mentioned he is a comprehensive boy
:56:54. > :56:59.-- Ed Miliband. Up two a state school boys hoping for big things
:56:59. > :57:05.in Bristol on November 15th. And T is going to be a great match of
:57:05. > :57:10.Bristol! -- he is going to be. These vehicles are used at Heathrow
:57:11. > :57:15.and could be coming to Bristol. Where is the driver to? And out in
:57:16. > :57:25.a fresh batch of the countryside, the badger caught is proving to be
:57:25. > :57:29.anything but black and white. -- cull. Three councils have said they
:57:29. > :57:34.will not allow them to be shot on their land!
:57:34. > :57:43.At conference, Ed Miliband said he was a conference -- a comprehensive
:57:43. > :57:49.boy, he told us about 45 times! a bit of class does not go a miss!
:57:49. > :57:53.-- a bit. A bit of class war is good. It is an issue but it will be
:57:53. > :58:01.among other things, it is about competence of government and about
:58:01. > :58:07.a lot of the issues this week. is the posh boy image of David
:58:08. > :58:12.Cameron and his cabinet of millionaires, that will come up.
:58:12. > :58:16.Miliband said, we are one nation as long as she went to a school like
:58:16. > :58:21.me and my Cabinet. People want to see competence and do not want to
:58:21. > :58:28.be dragged into an old class for which seems opportunistic and does
:58:28. > :58:32.not do politics any good. I went to Badminton. Mack it is interesting
:58:32. > :58:36.and offers scholarships to people who do not have a lot of money but
:58:36. > :58:42.want to do sport, it is a good model of giving people access to an
:58:42. > :58:47.amazing sports facilities if they have talent. Is that something you
:58:47. > :58:53.will throw at your opponents? can hurl insults at ideas but you
:58:53. > :58:59.want to keep it less personal -- you can. A good it is going to
:58:59. > :59:05.stick with Mr Cameron, -- but it is. The fact that Ed Miliband went on
:59:05. > :59:11.about it. It is an issue because we should be moving towards a
:59:11. > :59:17.classless society but class is ever more important. Is he an ordinary
:59:17. > :59:27.comprehensive boy? I do not think he had any special tuition and is
:59:27. > :59:27.
:59:27. > :59:31.much the better for it. He lived in a rather nice part of London!
:59:31. > :59:36.you talk about class, you talk about education and under Labour,
:59:36. > :59:45.the gap between private and state school education widened, so that
:59:45. > :59:52.is what matters. That is it! But do not go away because Andrew has more