:01:25. > :01:29.In the west, The North Somerset MP Liam Fox hits out at the elite
:01:29. > :01:31.within his own party. Who can he mean? And has he still
:01:31. > :01:41.got his eye on the top Conservative job.
:01:41. > :01:41.
:01:41. > :37:56.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2175 seconds
:37:56. > :38:01.Thank you, Andrew. Welcome to Sunday Politics in the West. Today:
:38:01. > :38:05.A doctor's prescription for making the Conservatives more attractive.
:38:05. > :38:08.Liam Fox tells us why David Cameron and the Westminster elite should
:38:08. > :38:14.listen to people like him. I have been putting him on the spot.
:38:14. > :38:18.Giving us an injection of political wit and experience are our guests
:38:18. > :38:22.today. They are the Lib Dem Don Foster, who has been given a
:38:22. > :38:30.ministerial job under Eric Pickles, and the Conservative from Wiltshire,
:38:30. > :38:35.Justin Tomlinson. Don, congratulations on becoming a
:38:35. > :38:40.minister. It is great fun. Incredibly hard work, and a huge
:38:40. > :38:44.steep learning curve. Within 24 hours of being appointed, I was
:38:44. > :38:50.leading a debate on the topic of building regulations. I had to stay
:38:50. > :38:56.up all night to learn about the issues. Within three days, I was
:38:57. > :39:06.giving evidence in front of the select committee, then within a
:39:07. > :39:07.
:39:07. > :39:14.week, stand at the Despatch Box and answer questions. You were our sort
:39:14. > :39:24.of a new boy. Do you aspire to ministerial office? He was a
:39:24. > :39:24.
:39:24. > :39:28.natural at the dispatch box. It is a wonderful opportunity. We are
:39:28. > :39:36.seeing more opportunities as backbench MPs to actually shape the
:39:36. > :39:45.direction of policy. It is an exciting time, hard work, and
:39:45. > :39:49.sometimes things take a long time. First, can the correlation between
:39:49. > :39:54.the Conservatives and Lib Dems last? Attentions are coming to the
:39:54. > :39:58.surface, and Liam Fox does not try to hide his disappointment that the
:39:58. > :40:07.liberals are watering down Tory policies -- tensions at coming to
:40:07. > :40:11.the surface. Two conferences, two weeks and 170 miles apart, but at
:40:11. > :40:17.times, the gap appeared much bigger. Playing to their audiences, Tories
:40:17. > :40:24.and Lib Dems are made jibes at each other. A lead the Conservatives be
:40:24. > :40:27.in no doubt, we will hold them to their promises on the environment.
:40:27. > :40:31.No other party make that commitment. Not Labour, not the Liberal
:40:32. > :40:36.Democrats, just us, the Conservatives. I will not allow us
:40:36. > :40:45.as a party to be bound hand and float to Tory spending plans across
:40:45. > :40:49.next Parliament. Sitting at, but speaking up a bit more these days
:40:49. > :40:52.his former defence secretary Liam Fox. He has just launched a new
:40:52. > :40:57.group, Conservative Voice, which aims to push the party further to
:40:57. > :41:02.the right. I think it is actually a very healthy that we are able to a
:41:02. > :41:07.spouse clear conservative viewpoint distinct from the coalition. Other
:41:07. > :41:10.partners growing apart? The Tories will do their damnedest to Gullit
:41:10. > :41:19.alone after the next election. The Lib Dems are wondering who they
:41:19. > :41:28.might get into bed with after 2015, although not all are happy to say.
:41:28. > :41:36.What was the question? Who is your preferred coalition partner?
:41:36. > :41:42.away. I am not saying. As a minister, you have to juggle many
:41:42. > :41:48.balls. A I could not possibly comment. Liam Fox doesn't just
:41:48. > :41:52.disapprove of Lib Dem policies. He is also critical of his own party's
:41:52. > :41:58.leadership, suggesting there out of touch and remote. He calls them a
:41:58. > :42:03.metropolitan elite. I asked him who he had in mind. Not just the Tory
:42:03. > :42:09.party, I was talking about politics in general. We spend a great deal
:42:09. > :42:13.of time and effort talking about House of Lords reform. That is an
:42:13. > :42:18.issue for the metropolitans, for the Westminster village. It is not
:42:18. > :42:24.an issue they talk about in Portishead or in my constituency,
:42:24. > :42:34.where people talk about employment and about prosperity, about
:42:34. > :42:35.
:42:35. > :42:40.pensions and their economic future. The implication is that you get it,
:42:40. > :42:46.but Mr Cameron doesn't. No, I think there is a tendency in Westminster
:42:46. > :42:50.to be very Westminster Oriented. I think it affect all the political
:42:50. > :42:56.parties. I think that is one of the things the party conference season
:42:56. > :43:04.does, it gets politicians out amongst activists and other parts
:43:04. > :43:07.of the country. I hope that at the end of the three weeks of
:43:07. > :43:14.conferences, we go back to Westminster with a better
:43:14. > :43:19.understanding about what the voters want to talk about rather than
:43:19. > :43:25.self-indulgent political discussions. Truth in the London
:43:25. > :43:31.elite -- do you think the Tory party should be run by somebody
:43:31. > :43:35.from a more rural area, like Somerset? I think what we simply
:43:35. > :43:45.need to do, as have the other parties, is to recognise them is a
:43:45. > :43:46.
:43:46. > :43:53.world outside London. I think we need to listen more widely. I would
:43:54. > :44:00.not say North Somerset was the one place you have to listen to! This
:44:00. > :44:05.is a shot at the Prime Minister. is not. It is a genuine attempt to
:44:05. > :44:13.say if the party want to get re- elected in 2015, it needs to be in
:44:13. > :44:23.tune with the voters. We have seen the Chancellor setting out his
:44:23. > :44:24.
:44:24. > :44:29.stall with the economy. I think it has been a very good week, from a
:44:29. > :44:37.party that knows what needs to be done and is not likely to change
:44:37. > :44:47.course. I think some people will say, actually, Liam Fox spends too
:44:47. > :44:49.
:44:49. > :44:54.much time with the party faithful, and you do not get ordinary people
:44:55. > :44:58.because you were in the thick of it there. It is an odd argument for
:44:58. > :45:04.someone who has spent their life working in the National Health
:45:04. > :45:08.Service and who grew up on a council estate! A people to worry
:45:08. > :45:14.about public services, they worry about the economy and what will
:45:14. > :45:21.happen to their taxes. I do not think they do worry about
:45:21. > :45:29.constitutional issues in the way politicians do. I am happy with my
:45:29. > :45:37.agenda and I think it is one people broadly agree with. Dr Fox, thank
:45:37. > :45:45.you very much. Just then, does he speak for you? He makes some very
:45:45. > :45:55.interesting points. You are reminded what the priorities are in
:45:55. > :45:56.
:45:56. > :46:02.the conference. We all have different priorities. Liam has to
:46:02. > :46:06.acknowledge we did not win the election outright. It is a
:46:06. > :46:12.coalition. We all have to compromise on some issues. By and
:46:12. > :46:19.large, we have been working very well with a were coalition partners.
:46:19. > :46:22.What about this talk of a metropolitan elite? I think if you
:46:22. > :46:30.ask any MP if they consider themselves to be in touch with the
:46:30. > :46:33.public, they would say that they are. When you represent a marginal
:46:33. > :46:43.seat, you are very conscious about the priorities of the people you
:46:43. > :46:49.
:46:49. > :46:56.represent. How popular with the agenda be -- how popular would the
:46:56. > :47:00.agenda be? I am economically on the bright, socially on the left. I am
:47:00. > :47:06.not a member of any pressure groups within the party. I am quite
:47:06. > :47:10.relaxed about individuals putting forward their ideas. But it is a
:47:10. > :47:18.meeting of mind and finding compromises. You share government
:47:18. > :47:26.benches with Liam Fox. He is towards the right of the party. Are
:47:26. > :47:30.you comfortable with that as a man towards the left of the Lib Dems?
:47:30. > :47:34.think we should listen to people in local communities, and that was
:47:34. > :47:40.interesting when he said that. Independent political parties need
:47:40. > :47:46.to develop their policies. Liberal Democrats are doing that, the
:47:46. > :47:53.Tories are doing that, Labour and others are doing it. I agree with
:47:53. > :47:57.that. Two political parties had to come together given a collection
:47:57. > :48:03.circumstances. I am comfortable working alongside our coalition
:48:03. > :48:10.colleagues on the agenda we have, which is be dominated do with the
:48:10. > :48:20.economic mess this country is in. He does not mean I have suddenly
:48:20. > :48:20.
:48:20. > :48:25.become a Tory! -- it does not mean. The proposal of an extra �10
:48:25. > :48:32.billion in cuts, what about that? There will be a lot of discussions
:48:32. > :48:36.on that. We have got a situation where our welfare packages are a
:48:36. > :48:46.third of government expenditure. It has ballooned in recent years, and
:48:46. > :48:50.
:48:50. > :48:59.we must address that. You have your endorsing Policies. If you look at
:48:59. > :49:03.the number of private sector jobs that are being created, it is quite
:49:03. > :49:13.phenomenal. If you look at the infrastructure developments, they
:49:13. > :49:15.
:49:15. > :49:24.ran lots of things. -- there are lots of things. If you look at what
:49:24. > :49:34.we are achieving in the creative economy, we are beginning to lead
:49:34. > :49:36.
:49:36. > :49:46.there. We know how difficult it is, and that is why we have to take
:49:46. > :49:47.
:49:47. > :49:51.tough decisions. We must crack on. The coalition are promising that
:49:51. > :50:00.council tax will be frozen again. That would leave local authorities
:50:00. > :50:06.very short of cash. This is how democracy looks in Gloucestershire.
:50:06. > :50:11.At its heart, the county council, then the six smaller district
:50:11. > :50:17.councils. 320 councillors, over 6,000 employees, at a cost to the
:50:17. > :50:24.taxpayer of over �463 million. But do we really need seven different
:50:24. > :50:28.councils? Would warm super council do the job? This man thinks he can
:50:28. > :50:32.make things simpler and is even prepared to sacrifice his job.
:50:32. > :50:37.would say closer integration and joint working are somewhere along
:50:37. > :50:41.the path to a unitary authority. If it can be shown that we can work
:50:41. > :50:45.together on various topics, then why not make a formal decision to
:50:45. > :50:50.join up completely, rather than maintain the overheads, separate
:50:50. > :50:54.staff, working on the same subject in seven local-authority is?
:50:54. > :50:59.his proposals have upset others, who say the current system ain't
:50:59. > :51:03.broken. You can spend a lot of time talking about rearranging does deck
:51:03. > :51:08.chairs. Actually, there are opportunities already where we can
:51:08. > :51:12.work close and better together, get rid of duplication, act as a single
:51:12. > :51:22.public sector team. How would it be if these seats were no longer
:51:22. > :51:23.
:51:23. > :51:26.warmed by county councils, -- county councillors, but by a new
:51:26. > :51:30.unitary councillors instead? think every council should look at
:51:30. > :51:34.it and see what savings might be made. If you can get rid of the
:51:35. > :51:38.tier of government, it has to be more efficient. That's the theory,
:51:38. > :51:43.but councillors from Gloucestershire only need to travel
:51:43. > :51:47.50 miles to see what happens when it is put into practice. In 2009,
:51:47. > :51:51.will share lost a whole tier of local government. Out when the
:51:51. > :51:55.borough and district councils, and the county council as well. It was
:51:55. > :52:00.replaced by a super unitary authority. Three years on, I have
:52:00. > :52:03.come to Chippenham, to find out whether people have noticed a
:52:03. > :52:07.difference. Three years ago, when she got rid of his district and
:52:07. > :52:15.borough councils and County Council, and replaced it with one authority.
:52:15. > :52:18.Have you noticed any difference? Yes. What's the difference? It is
:52:18. > :52:22.worse. North Wiltshire District Council represented the locality
:52:22. > :52:26.much better. The until authority has been appalling. I personally
:52:26. > :52:31.believe it has not been working. We had a few issues that came up last
:52:31. > :52:34.year that needed support from our councils, and it physically was not
:52:34. > :52:41.there to supporters and achieve what we wanted to achieve.
:52:41. > :52:44.haven't noticed any difference. I was vaguely aware, yes. As a
:52:44. > :52:53.taxpayer, it is meant to be better value for money. Have you seen a
:52:53. > :52:58.shaming your council tax? No. might not be a resounding vote of
:52:58. > :53:01.confidence, but members of the new unitary authority in Welsher say
:53:01. > :53:06.they are saving �80 million a year. 18 million reasons why councillors
:53:06. > :53:12.in Gloucestershire might even consider voting themselves out of
:53:12. > :53:15.the job. The timescale is probably such that if it -- the timescale is
:53:15. > :53:22.promise such that it would be beyond my time as leader, but I
:53:22. > :53:31.would be prepared to make myself redundant. Joining the debate is a
:53:31. > :53:41.Labour's Mark Dempsey, a councillor in Swindon. There is a unity
:53:41. > :53:42.
:53:42. > :53:49.authority of will chair and a unity authority of Wilshere. -- Wiltshire.
:53:49. > :53:52.And Swindon. You allow people to know how to get things to change. I
:53:52. > :53:58.think decisions about moving towards unity authorities have to
:53:58. > :54:04.be a decision made by the people. People are looking for leadership
:54:04. > :54:13.from their local government. In Swindon, the big demand is a plan
:54:13. > :54:22.for Gross, getting how young people back into work -- a plan for growth.
:54:22. > :54:30.Let's talk about tax been frozen. Families are finding times are hard
:54:30. > :54:37.at the moment. I voted for a council tax freeze twice. I think
:54:37. > :54:42.it gives people the help they need. Overall, when council tax and
:54:42. > :54:47.business rate at going down, what people really need is the hope we
:54:47. > :54:53.can build a better future for them, to bring new jobs and the economy
:54:53. > :54:59.and regenerate our town centres. Let's bring in our other guests.
:54:59. > :55:05.None of us want to pay more council tax, but what's a point in having
:55:05. > :55:13.men and women working in government if they can't decide the level?
:55:13. > :55:18.They will be able to decide. What has been said is if council tax is
:55:18. > :55:22.frozen, some of the money will be provided from that anyway. It is up
:55:22. > :55:25.to local councils to make the decision whether they want to take
:55:25. > :55:34.the money and have a freeze, or not take the money from central
:55:34. > :55:42.government but razored through council tax. It is very important.
:55:42. > :55:49.It is incredibly important for people on pensions. I remember my
:55:49. > :55:54.times on the council went council tax went up massively. Hard-pressed
:55:54. > :56:01.farmers will be very grateful for this. Yes, local authority will
:56:02. > :56:11.have to find a contribution. Were it is the reality? -- what is the
:56:12. > :56:17.
:56:17. > :56:20.reality? I think what people want is hope for now. That is the
:56:21. > :56:26.critical thing. They want value for money and they want to believe we
:56:26. > :56:34.will grow the economy. That is the leadership people want in local
:56:34. > :56:39.government. Can you deliver without large cuts? This is the challenge.
:56:39. > :56:44.This is where the cut and really biting. I knocked on the door in
:56:44. > :56:48.North Swindon last weekend. A young mother was on child benefit and
:56:48. > :56:52.that had been cut, her husband was facing redundancy and head bills
:56:52. > :56:59.were going up. She said openly, I voted Conservative last year, will
:56:59. > :57:04.not make the same mistake again. That is the problem people are
:57:04. > :57:08.having, because of the cuts the Government are making. I am afraid
:57:08. > :57:14.the legacy of the economy we inherited means we have to make
:57:14. > :57:21.difficult decisions to balance the economy. How long will that excuse
:57:21. > :57:24.wash for? We inherited a massive deficit. But you have been saying
:57:25. > :57:29.that for long time. We will have to demonstrate by the general election
:57:29. > :57:39.and we have made a difference. There is no hiding from that. In
:57:39. > :57:40.
:57:40. > :57:45.2015, people can make their judgment. Thank you so much for
:57:45. > :57:55.joining us. Now, let's take a race through this week's political
:57:55. > :57:58.stories in one minute. Time to say, hello hello hello to the new police
:57:58. > :58:03.and Crown Commissioners. But standing for office is hardly a
:58:03. > :58:08.steal. The Greens have pulled out, and in Avon and Somerset, UKIP's
:58:08. > :58:12.man withdrew, saying the party could not afford the �5,000 deposit.
:58:12. > :58:19.In Gloucestershire, the woman standing on the Save the badgers
:58:19. > :58:23.platform also threw in the towel. You need around �84,000 also to
:58:23. > :58:26.spend on materials for advertising, marketing and so on. And politics
:58:26. > :58:31.played its part in scuppering the biggest global defence deal. BAe
:58:31. > :58:36.and the parent company of Airbus, EADS, have called the whole thing
:58:36. > :58:39.off. The Green Party's new leader popped into the West Country this
:58:39. > :58:42.week as anti-nuclear protesters clashed with police at Hinckley
:58:43. > :58:46.Point in Somerset. At first it was all smiles on the Manchester
:58:47. > :58:56.conference stage. This week, back to campaigning in Bristol. Marvin
:58:57. > :58:57.
:58:57. > :59:02.Rees was joined on the street by the debt Miliband. -- stand on the
:59:02. > :59:06.street by Ed Miliband. Let's pick- up on the story about the police
:59:06. > :59:11.and Crown Commissioners. People are dropping at because they have to
:59:11. > :59:19.find five grand, to put your name down, then you have to canvass
:59:19. > :59:25.across a vast geographical area. It is not practical. I have sympathy.
:59:25. > :59:30.You do need lots of candidates, whether from political parties are
:59:30. > :59:39.independent. That �5,000 deposit I think is excessive. If you do well,
:59:39. > :59:45.you will get the money back. One reason you have a deposit is to
:59:45. > :59:55.stop... It would just be the main parties -- it would just be the
:59:55. > :00:02.
:00:02. > :00:08.main parties standing. The key thing about this is it is a real
:00:08. > :00:15.opportunity to have democratic accountability that we do not
:00:15. > :00:18.currently have in this way. OK. We will wait and see what happens.
:00:18. > :00:22.Before we go, we must end up best wishes to one of our local
:00:22. > :00:26.politicians who was a regular guest here. Anne Snelgrove, who was a
:00:26. > :00:31.Labour MP for South Swindon, has told us she is battling cancer