:01:20. > :01:24.In the West: Fighting to be top of the cops. We will be quizzing the
:01:24. > :01:34.candidates hoping to run Avon and Somerset Police. But with cuts and
:01:34. > :01:34.
:01:34. > :36:00.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2066 seconds
:36:00. > :36:06.You join us live for the Sunday Politics in the West. It is pretty
:36:06. > :36:10.cold out today. Today, the battle to be police commissioner. It is
:36:10. > :36:14.less than two weeks to polling day but what are the issues and who
:36:15. > :36:20.will you vote for? What will the new person at the top actually do
:36:20. > :36:22.for their money? The elections take place right across the west in
:36:22. > :36:28.Dorset, Wiltshire and Gloucestershire but we will turn
:36:28. > :36:35.the spotlight on the largest forced, that is Avon and Somerset. --
:36:35. > :36:43.largest force. We have all for what candidates in the same room. They
:36:43. > :36:49.are the Lib Dem at Peter Levene he is a Bristol councillor. Ken Madoc.
:36:49. > :36:58.Sue Mountstevens, she is the only independent and a former magistrate.
:36:58. > :37:06.And also Labour's Jon Savage. I will give you each a short time to
:37:06. > :37:11.give us your top priority. We will start with John Savage. The top
:37:11. > :37:14.priority is we have to set a budget and there is not a lot of time
:37:14. > :37:20.after being appointed. Anyone who kids themselves there are easy
:37:20. > :37:26.solutions to the big problems is kidding themselves. We need to sit
:37:26. > :37:31.down and talk and listen to people. Sue Mountstevens. I want to keep
:37:31. > :37:36.party politics out of policing. I want to be sure we are doing what
:37:36. > :37:42.the residents of Avon and Somerset want not what Westminster once.
:37:42. > :37:46.Madoc. The main thing is to cut crime. If we cut crime, we cut the
:37:46. > :37:54.amount of distress caused to victims and the amount of work
:37:54. > :37:59.needed to buy the entire judicial system. Pete Levy. We need to do
:37:59. > :38:04.what the Government should have done, find out how we explain to
:38:04. > :38:11.the public what a police and crime commissioners can do and re-engage
:38:11. > :38:17.with a demoralised police force. The Chief Constable of Avon and
:38:17. > :38:21.Somerset is a man of many years' experience. He is a respected chief
:38:21. > :38:27.constable. Is there a single issue you could say, you have got that
:38:27. > :38:31.wrong and I will come here and tell you how to do it? I do not think so.
:38:31. > :38:41.He is the chief constable and he is a professional police officer, he
:38:41. > :38:48.has learned that. He is supported by an excellent road. -- excellent
:38:48. > :38:52.group. The PCC role is completely different. If you look at the
:38:52. > :38:57.statistics for Avon and Somerset, the crime reduction is amazing. We
:38:57. > :39:02.need to find ways of keeping that going. A lot of people will say,
:39:02. > :39:07.what is the point of this? There are big changes coming. The changes
:39:07. > :39:11.are to hold the police to account, in a democratic way, that has never
:39:11. > :39:16.been done before. That is a substantial change. We know there
:39:16. > :39:23.are big shortages of money coming in. We need to make sure there is a
:39:23. > :39:28.big police power. At his right. need to open the police up -- that
:39:28. > :39:32.is right. We need to get the public more involved in the police hunt
:39:32. > :39:39.for the police to go out to the community and explain to them why
:39:39. > :39:44.they are doing things. Whoever gets elected on Thursday week will take
:39:44. > :39:50.charge at a difficult time. Hanging over every force is the need for
:39:50. > :39:55.cuts. Police numbers are falling, morale is down, sick levels are up.
:39:55. > :39:59.On Thursday 15th November, everybody living in England and
:39:59. > :40:04.Wales outside London will have the right to vote for a police and
:40:04. > :40:08.crime commissioners. It went down well at her party conference but
:40:08. > :40:13.the Home Secretary's changes have not be welcomed outside the hall.
:40:13. > :40:18.Earlier this year, police staged a show of anger and frustration. Tens
:40:18. > :40:25.of thousands marched in London. Complaints were numerous but mostly
:40:25. > :40:30.driven by the 20% cut in funding imposed by the Government. 600 came
:40:30. > :40:35.up from Avon and Somerset. That is nearly as many officers as the
:40:35. > :40:39.force is losing. In the last Labour government, police have prospered.
:40:39. > :40:44.Numbers rose to record levels. In the age of austerity, they have
:40:44. > :40:48.fallen back. It is not just the cuts that have hurt morale, so to
:40:48. > :40:55.have plans to change pay and pensions. A bespectacled lawyer
:40:55. > :40:59.armed only with a pen. Tom Winsor strikes fear into coppers. He has
:40:59. > :41:03.just been appointed Chief Inspector of Constabulary after carrying out
:41:03. > :41:07.two major reviews. They are controversial changes and they
:41:07. > :41:12.include cutting the starting rate of pay, pushing back the retirement
:41:12. > :41:20.age and brainy in the possibility of pay cuts for unfit officers. --
:41:20. > :41:24.and bringing in the possibility. It has not gone down well. What Tom
:41:24. > :41:29.Winsor is doing is contributing to a suppressed feeling of morale
:41:29. > :41:34.because it forces this impression that individuals have that they are
:41:34. > :41:40.not valued or appreciated, they are not literally valued through the
:41:40. > :41:43.pay packet. A cross all ranks, there is discontent. The local
:41:43. > :41:53.Police Federation say officers feel like they have been beaten and
:41:53. > :41:57.robbed. We have the 20% budget cuts, the reviews on a policing. I think
:41:57. > :42:01.that PCC will come in half way through everything going on and
:42:01. > :42:05.they will have to deal with it. Government are spending millions on
:42:05. > :42:13.scary adverts, trying to get people to vote and thousands is being
:42:13. > :42:17.spent by candidates. What I am seeing in a lot of manifestos is so
:42:17. > :42:21.am very bland statements about fighting crime, fighting the cuts.
:42:21. > :42:25.The reality is most police and crime commissioners will have to
:42:25. > :42:30.sit down after the election and work out how they are going to
:42:30. > :42:38.solve the problem of fulfilling these promises when the police
:42:38. > :42:44.resource cake is getting smaller and will continue to get smaller.
:42:44. > :42:48.Theresa May was left in no doubt at this year's conference. Stand by
:42:48. > :42:58.your vision! In it will be up to her newly elected proteges to see
:42:58. > :43:02.
:43:02. > :43:07.if they can turn the she is into cheers. Police numbers are falling.
:43:07. > :43:11.What are you going to get done? How can you do anything when the number
:43:11. > :43:15.of people on the streets is falling? It is about the commission
:43:15. > :43:19.element. It is additional budgets coming under the control of the
:43:19. > :43:23.police and crime commissioner. It is engaging with the voluntary
:43:23. > :43:27.sector and helping them. They have been helpful with bringing crime
:43:27. > :43:32.figures down and bringing detection rates up. He people will be
:43:32. > :43:38.knocking on your door, saying, I want a policeman. You will have to
:43:38. > :43:42.say, we do not have the people. whole of the public service is
:43:42. > :43:51.facing this. It is a reality. It is not about police on the beat only,
:43:51. > :43:55.it is about -- is about officers being available. Sue Mountstevens,
:43:55. > :44:01.are you satisfied you can do anything, given that the budget is
:44:01. > :44:06.boring? I am going to make a difference. The real difference is
:44:06. > :44:12.we need to target persistent offenders. -- is falling. That is
:44:12. > :44:22.the highest problem. We cannot make a difference and the role of the
:44:22. > :44:24.
:44:24. > :44:30.PCC will be to work together as a whole. -- we can make a difference.
:44:30. > :44:36.Times are very tough. We know what a financial mess the country is in.
:44:36. > :44:40.It is only right that every part of the public sector will have to take
:44:40. > :44:46.its share of putting that right and getting us back on an even keel. We
:44:46. > :44:50.can pull off a pretty neat trick here. We can get more for less. I
:44:50. > :44:55.have a great deal of experience of business and public service. I
:44:55. > :45:01.think we can close the difficult circle and get more for less.
:45:01. > :45:07.are to be happy the force spends over �6 million a year on overtime?
:45:07. > :45:12.In business, the systematic working of overtime is symptomatic of
:45:12. > :45:19.managerial responsibility for so my straight answer is no match.
:45:19. > :45:26.would argue against that. There has to be flexibility in overtime. We
:45:26. > :45:30.do not decide to, as a police commissioner, about when someone is
:45:30. > :45:34.murdered or raped and therefore that over time has to come in
:45:34. > :45:40.because we have to follow that process through. You would keep the
:45:40. > :45:45.overtime budget? That is too simple -- simplistic. When the situation
:45:46. > :45:50.calls for it, of course we need all hands on deck. But the working of
:45:50. > :45:56.Bovis -- systematic overtime on a regular basis his managerial
:45:56. > :46:02.irresponsible. He lorry former policeman. What to do you think? --
:46:02. > :46:09.you are a former policeman. I think Tom Winsor and Hutton have
:46:09. > :46:14.demoralised the police force. They have taken away their feeling of
:46:14. > :46:19.being required. I know the police are doing this but I want to do
:46:19. > :46:23.everything in my power to make sure they are rewarded for the job they
:46:23. > :46:33.do. Not many people get over time these days. You sign a contract a
:46:33. > :46:37.
:46:37. > :46:42.new work when you work. It is 2% of the total budget. It is not right
:46:42. > :46:47.to bring it up as a bland figure. It is not way you can do the most
:46:47. > :46:57.significant change. A Avon and Somerset Police spend �60 million
:46:57. > :46:57.
:46:57. > :47:05.on pensions every year. Very high figures. The employee contribution
:47:05. > :47:10.is 12.7 million. There is hardly anyone in the 4th over 55. Can we
:47:11. > :47:16.afford a force like that? -- in that the force. A pension is to be
:47:16. > :47:21.organised by Parliament. The government decides on the pension.
:47:21. > :47:29.It would be ridiculous there is one pension for Avon and Somerset and
:47:29. > :47:36.another... We should be fighting from within it for change?
:47:36. > :47:41.cannot change the contracts that exist, in my view. It is the reward
:47:41. > :47:50.for the job they do. It seems they rages you should change that. We
:47:50. > :47:57.have to think about how we can level at the balance. -- it seems
:47:58. > :48:03.outrageous. It is about the future. We can't go on forever with this
:48:03. > :48:07.great percentage. We have to take into account the Constabulary and
:48:07. > :48:17.the police authority by dealing with cuts of 43 min him pounds over
:48:17. > :48:18.
:48:18. > :48:22.three years. It is delivering more for less. -- �43 million. We have
:48:22. > :48:27.heard morale, we saw the police that the demonstration, morale is
:48:27. > :48:33.low. Is that something that bothers you? Of course it bothers me. The
:48:33. > :48:39.only way we will get a result is with a well selected and well
:48:39. > :48:45.organised force with a high morale. In you want more for less, that is
:48:45. > :48:48.unlikely? We can work smarter. We can make more use of electronic
:48:48. > :48:58.gadgets which will mean every individual officer will be able to
:48:58. > :49:00.
:49:00. > :49:09.be much more productive. I believe great manager and a ship and
:49:09. > :49:15.leadership is the key. -- great management. Many people are unclear
:49:15. > :49:25.about what the job will be. Our reporter has been a daydreaming
:49:25. > :49:31.about the role and what it would be like if he were elected.
:49:31. > :49:35.So I got the job. Apart from having goals such as setting targets, the
:49:35. > :49:42.budget and the ability to hire the Chief Constable, what else is there
:49:42. > :49:46.to do to earn my �65,000 salary? I spent a few hours this morning at
:49:46. > :49:50.police headquarters but that only took a few hours. I have checked
:49:50. > :49:56.the handbook from the Home Office but that does not tell me much
:49:56. > :50:01.about the role. I do know a man who has some ideas. I would say it is a
:50:01. > :50:05.full-time job and you must treat it like that. It will be more and was
:50:05. > :50:09.then you expect because the role is in police and crime commissioner
:50:09. > :50:13.and the crime it is important. Policing is doing well in the
:50:13. > :50:17.county. Crime is going down and public confidence is rising. But
:50:17. > :50:21.you need to tackle the criminal justice side of things. It is a
:50:21. > :50:24.full-time job. With no job description how will the
:50:25. > :50:28.commissioner filled the diary? I wonder what the real life
:50:29. > :50:35.candidates in Gloucestershire think they will be doing. If I am
:50:35. > :50:40.representing their views so I have got to know what they think. I have
:50:40. > :50:45.visited every corner of the county, listening to what people want from
:50:45. > :50:50.their police force and in terms of their strategies. It would not be a
:50:50. > :50:55.Monday to Friday job. You need to find out what people want. I would
:50:55. > :51:00.spend a lot of time here, having briefings with the chief constable
:51:00. > :51:04.and the police staff. There would be little time spent here in police
:51:04. > :51:08.headquarters. It is out there with the public, carrying on the work we
:51:08. > :51:14.have been doing, which is representing them and finding out
:51:14. > :51:17.their views. There will be an element of going out a meeting
:51:17. > :51:23.different organisations, meeting people, holding sessions with
:51:23. > :51:28.different groups. That is important. There is no structure so it will be
:51:28. > :51:32.seeing what the role brings and what people want. Gloucestershire's
:51:33. > :51:38.candidates agree. It is about giving the public a voice. What to
:51:38. > :51:44.do the public one? A I would think it is probably a good idea. A bit
:51:44. > :51:50.of a shake-up. -- what to do the public want? If it is hard to say
:51:50. > :51:54.whether this person will have enough experience. Not get rid of
:51:54. > :51:59.any more community police officers. They do the job well. What people
:51:59. > :52:06.want to see generally is police on the straight. They do not want to
:52:06. > :52:11.see the cutbacks that are coming. Zero-tolerance on everything from
:52:11. > :52:16.graffiti to throwing cigarettes out of windows. Everything. Everything
:52:16. > :52:21.that starts right down here that needs -- that leads to larger crime.
:52:21. > :52:25.I do not know what they are going to do. In my day in charge, I have
:52:25. > :52:31.spoken to the public, met with the police and made some big decisions,
:52:31. > :52:37.like appointing a chief constable. I agree the budget. And I said the
:52:37. > :52:46.force's targets. It seems a this job will be what ever the
:52:46. > :52:54.commissioner makes of it. One of these four people will be in charge.
:52:54. > :52:58.It is a big job. It is a very big job and an important job. I have
:52:58. > :53:02.been on thousands of doorsteps in the last few months and I can tell
:53:02. > :53:07.you people want to be allowed to go about their business, day-by-day
:53:07. > :53:11.without any fear or insecurity. What I can bring to that is a fresh
:53:11. > :53:18.look at the police force and that he does the system to make sure
:53:18. > :53:24.that happens. -- and the judicial system. People want to see more
:53:24. > :53:31.police officers and less crime. That is not very difficult. We have
:53:31. > :53:38.a cut. We have to take on board we have a �43 million cut. Damping is
:53:38. > :53:41.going to get worse. Damping is the Government taking that some of the
:53:41. > :53:45.money they should be allocated to Avon and Somerset. That will
:53:45. > :53:50.increase because we are going to have the community safety fund
:53:50. > :53:55.damping. We will have less money. We cannot just broke police
:53:56. > :54:01.anywhere. We have to target specific places. -- we cannot just
:54:01. > :54:06.go Road police anywhere. You want to target. You want money in
:54:06. > :54:13.individual units. A lot of people will say, we want to see officers
:54:13. > :54:19.on the beach. I you going to say, you cannot have them? -- on the
:54:19. > :54:24.beat. They need to see officers when they need to see them. This is
:54:24. > :54:28.not an instant thing, cutting crime. If we want to do that, the
:54:28. > :54:32.advantages of this job, it is getting in touch with the public.
:54:32. > :54:37.The rest of it is getting in touch with the rest of society. If we
:54:37. > :54:41.want to cut crime, we have got to do something about education and do
:54:41. > :54:46.something about the great amount of money we are spending on the wrong
:54:46. > :54:52.things. Let me give you a hypothetical. Say the chief
:54:52. > :54:56.constable comes to you and says, we have this lovely village, a few
:54:56. > :55:06.murders but it is very quiet. We do not needed police station there.
:55:06. > :55:09.
:55:09. > :55:15.You say, can I closer? What do you say? -- can I closed it? The it has
:55:15. > :55:22.looked at the evidence. When police stations are being used once or
:55:22. > :55:31.twice in 24 hours, you would not keep them open. A public will say
:55:31. > :55:41.they want it open. But let us get the police to where the residents
:55:41. > :55:46.are. We have gone through this process. I want an inquiry office.
:55:46. > :55:53.If you have got a building open, Monday to Friday and There are one
:55:53. > :56:03.or two people going in a day... is horses for courses. How will we
:56:03. > :56:08.do a job in reducing crime and reduce infrastructure? In Bristol,
:56:08. > :56:14.they are going to have drunk tanks on the weekend to deal with trunks.
:56:14. > :56:18.It will save the pressure on the NHS. Is your view to facilitate
:56:18. > :56:26.this all say, I do not want drunkenness on the streets of
:56:26. > :56:34.Bristol? In it is about rehabilitation and reducing crime.
:56:34. > :56:41.I would want to work with local authorities... I have chaired the
:56:41. > :56:47.setting up of that and it is great. The police service have not paid
:56:47. > :56:52.for this. We need to work together. Let us not fight our own battles
:56:52. > :56:57.but buy them together. Let us take a look at some of the
:56:57. > :57:00.other political stories of the week in our round-up.
:57:00. > :57:05.Boris Johnson took some serious flack from a small group of
:57:05. > :57:08.protestors in Bristol this week. He was here as a cheerleader for the
:57:08. > :57:18.Tory candidates for Bristol Mayor and the Police and Crime
:57:18. > :57:19.
:57:19. > :57:27.Commissioner. Many welcoming committees I have had, that was the
:57:27. > :57:30.most... It shows there of people in this city who are crying out for
:57:30. > :57:33.change. A blot on the landscape or a great
:57:33. > :57:36.way of generating energy? It seems even the government cannot agree on
:57:36. > :57:38.whether they love or hate wind turbines like this one in
:57:38. > :57:42.Gloucestershire. There are proposals to build more in the area
:57:42. > :57:43.but if the Tory Energy Minister gets his way all new plans will be
:57:43. > :57:46.blocked. Three of our local Tories rebelled
:57:47. > :57:49.in this week's vote on the EU budget. James Gray, Jack Lopresti
:57:49. > :57:59.and Laurence Robertson were amongst 53 who defied their leader, voting
:57:59. > :58:04.
:58:05. > :58:09.with Labour, calling for a real- terms cut in spending.
:58:09. > :58:14.That Was the Week. That is all we have got time for. The programme
:58:14. > :58:18.continues in London. Thank you to the candidates for Avon and
:58:18. > :58:26.Somerset for joining us. There is a full list of all the candidates
:58:26. > :58:30.standing in Wiltshire, Gloucestershire and Dorset on our
:58:30. > :58:38.website. There is more information on how to vote and the views of
:58:38. > :58:43.your candidates. You can hear more from the candidates on your local