:01:27. > :01:30.Here - the storms lashing the west country: Complaints that stingy
:01:30. > :01:40.councils are making flooding worse because the drains are blocked. And
:01:40. > :01:40.
:01:40. > :39:08.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2247 seconds
:39:08. > :39:10.could one local council be about to Thank you, Andrew. Coming up on the
:39:10. > :39:14.Sunday Politics in the west on this sodden wet weekend:
:39:14. > :39:17.Teetering on the brink of bankruptcy. West Somerset Council
:39:17. > :39:20.could be the first local authority to be declared bankrupt. They are
:39:20. > :39:25.struggling to plug the holes in their leaky budget, but the leader
:39:25. > :39:28.says they are not to blame. It's been a week of extreme weather
:39:28. > :39:32.with flooding causing disruption across the west. So we've battened
:39:32. > :39:35.down the hatches in our little studio this weekend. Helping us
:39:35. > :39:45.along today is the Conservative MP for North Wiltshire James Gray, and
:39:45. > :39:46.
:39:46. > :39:51.the former Tory MP and now UKIP member Neil Hamilton. James, we
:39:51. > :39:55.have been watching what is going on in Brussels this week. No-budget
:39:55. > :40:04.agreed, is it time now to give this guy what it -- what he wants, a
:40:04. > :40:09.referendum? I am a strong sceptic of the euro. The problem with a
:40:09. > :40:19.referendum is the polls show it could go either way. If we have a
:40:19. > :40:19.
:40:19. > :40:29.referendum far as to stay in the Union, we are much worse off. --
:40:29. > :40:29.
:40:29. > :40:36.for us to stay. There was a situation last week where two
:40:36. > :40:42.referendums were a possibility. remember the last one that in 1975.
:40:43. > :40:46.Money was poured in by the European Communities, plus a huge amount of
:40:46. > :40:49.money from business. It made it impossible for those who were
:40:49. > :40:54.against staying in the Common Market to put their case forward
:40:54. > :41:03.properly. Without being impolite, if Britain decided to stay in,
:41:03. > :41:11.would you be quiet? So to me not. - - certainly not. Our aim is to form
:41:11. > :41:21.a government to take us out of the EU. I think it is difficult for us
:41:21. > :41:23.
:41:23. > :41:26.to imagine that has seen being sided -- decided just by MPs. We
:41:26. > :41:31.want to be out of the EU, regardless for the mechanism for
:41:31. > :41:35.achieving it. Days of heavy rain and strong winds
:41:35. > :41:39.have caused flash flooding across the west this week. The cost of the
:41:39. > :41:41.clean up is still unknown, but local councils will have to pick up
:41:41. > :41:45.the tab for mending damaged roads and clearing blocked drains. And
:41:45. > :41:49.that will be costly at a time when all of their budgets are being
:41:49. > :41:54.squeezed. It has been a week that many would
:41:54. > :41:57.rather forget. The heavy rain and high winds combined to cause chaos
:41:57. > :42:07.on our roads, and left some homes and business destroyed by flood
:42:07. > :42:10.
:42:10. > :42:18.water. In Somerset, council teams were clearing blocked drains.
:42:18. > :42:24.time it year is terrible. Know where for the water to go. --
:42:24. > :42:27.nowhere. It is a constant battle all over the west. And for some, it
:42:27. > :42:30.is too little too late. This house in Wiltshire has flooded three
:42:30. > :42:38.times in eight weeks because of poor drainage. They blame the
:42:38. > :42:42.council. It is so easy to solve. It is not complicated science. They
:42:42. > :42:45.say there is not the money to do this. The money that they have
:42:45. > :42:52.already spent in this village building ditchers, the cost that
:42:52. > :42:56.doesn't vault - this could have been done 10 times over.
:42:56. > :43:02.problem is they don't have the resources, the Manpower, the
:43:02. > :43:05.equipment or the expertise to try to solve all these issues at once.
:43:05. > :43:08.Spending on highways has been cut back by almost all of our councils,
:43:08. > :43:16.except in Wiltshire. But in North Somerset this weekend, a promise to
:43:16. > :43:19.do more. We are facing a very difficult budget year. We're
:43:19. > :43:22.waiting for more answers from central government on where we will
:43:22. > :43:27.be. But the one thing we are committing to is to try and find
:43:27. > :43:32.some money to pay it into the highway dangers of this flood
:43:32. > :43:37.problem. But there is no point widening the drain if water goes a
:43:37. > :43:43.bit further down and then gets stuck somewhere else. It has to be
:43:43. > :43:46.a collective solution. Roads churned up by the torrents of water
:43:46. > :43:53.will need repairing. The clean up will take weeks, even months - the
:43:53. > :43:56.cost could be felt by our councils for even longer. Patrick Palmer is
:43:56. > :44:03.an independent councillor in South Somerset. He first stood for
:44:03. > :44:11.election 45 years ago because of concerns over flooding. Welcome.
:44:11. > :44:19.Have you achieved anything in this 45 years? An enormous amount. In
:44:19. > :44:26.1972 in our village, I was the lead to achieve a flat scheme costing
:44:26. > :44:36.about �70,000. There were 22 houses flooded in that village every
:44:36. > :44:37.
:44:37. > :44:42.single year. So I achieved that. There was another flood scheme and
:44:42. > :44:50.several more at other villagers. So I'm very annoyed that the council
:44:50. > :44:55.has not actually cleared the drains and get than clear. It just needs
:44:55. > :44:59.the trains to be cleared. So what is your message, with your
:44:59. > :45:02.specialist interest in flooding and all these years of experience -
:45:02. > :45:08.could improvements be made if proper prevention work was carried
:45:08. > :45:17.out? I honestly believe small improvements can be made to keep
:45:17. > :45:22.the water out of many houses with a minimum of cost. What that actually
:45:22. > :45:27.clearing drains? You get rain at this time of year, you get the
:45:27. > :45:35.leads in the drains, and of course the consequences are obvious. A our
:45:35. > :45:39.councils cutting back, it? It is a county council responsibility.
:45:39. > :45:45.Everywhere you go, you can see water coming out of drains along
:45:45. > :45:48.the streets. The important ones are the ones like ours at the bottom of
:45:48. > :45:52.a help - you need to keep them clear so the pressure of water from
:45:52. > :45:56.the top and the volume of water doesn't come out of that rain and
:45:56. > :46:03.flat a highway. Once you at the top of the hill, it doesn't matter so
:46:03. > :46:13.much. Isn't at a basic local authority responsibility, to keep
:46:13. > :46:14.
:46:14. > :46:18.the trains clear? It is, and I'm glad the council saved a lot of
:46:18. > :46:24.money by a not cutting back on flood protection. A very good point
:46:24. > :46:31.you made is that there is no point clearing ditches at the top of the
:46:31. > :46:37.thing when their son in downstream keeping it blocked. -- when there
:46:38. > :46:43.is something downstream. Old. In the Somerset planes is that is
:46:43. > :46:52.where you store water until it moves down. There is some merit in
:46:52. > :46:55.what we call slow water moving all the way. Other councils have not
:46:55. > :47:01.maintain their spending is on highways. You think councils have
:47:01. > :47:05.taken their eye off the ball? think the government is pouring
:47:05. > :47:08.money down drains and metaphorically all the time. But
:47:08. > :47:12.they are falling down on this instance where money should
:47:13. > :47:17.actually be poured down the drain for productive reasons. There been
:47:17. > :47:20.no local authority cuts over all. The amount of money spent by local
:47:20. > :47:25.authorities on everything is the same today as it was three years
:47:25. > :47:30.ago. With that inflation at course, but in budgets the size of a big
:47:31. > :47:35.local authorities, it must be possible to find economies and
:47:35. > :47:39.deficiencies. Ultimately, it is a question of priorities. People
:47:39. > :47:44.often say it is the services at the front line that get cut rather than
:47:44. > :47:49.the back room. Patrick, had you found this, getting the councils to
:47:49. > :47:57.spend cash on basic things like train cleaning is difficult? Very
:47:57. > :48:07.difficult to get councils to spend money on an unromantic been like
:48:07. > :48:09.
:48:09. > :48:15.drains. Not taking into account this weekend, but we have had 59.8
:48:15. > :48:19.mm. In a normal year, we that 74. So it has been wet, but not even
:48:19. > :48:28.exceptional. So has there been a failure to get the basics right?
:48:28. > :48:34.I'm amazed there's been last this year. Over a couple of days this
:48:34. > :48:38.week, the rain has been severe, but not as much as we normally have.
:48:38. > :48:47.has been sodden. You were saying you were a farm up. The fields of
:48:47. > :48:51.sodden. The farmers cannot others their crops and the flood defences
:48:51. > :48:59.are overwhelmed and you have a real problem. The real problem is
:48:59. > :49:06.whether something big is happening. Business global warming? Thank you
:49:06. > :49:08.for coming in. The smallest council in Britain
:49:08. > :49:11.remains in deep financial trouble this weekend. West Somerset - which
:49:11. > :49:16.covers the Minehead area - is facing bankruptcy. Paul Barltrop
:49:16. > :49:19.reports. For the 35,000 residents of West
:49:19. > :49:22.Somerset, here's the good news - bins are still going to be
:49:22. > :49:32.collected. And now the bad news - the council is losing money. More
:49:32. > :49:33.
:49:33. > :49:39.than �100,000 a year - and that It's not new - they've made savings,
:49:39. > :49:42.cutting staff and services. But it's nowhere near enough. Part of
:49:42. > :49:46.the problem for West Somerset is that by population it is the
:49:46. > :49:49.smallest district council in the land. But the significance of what
:49:49. > :49:55.is happening here goes far wider - experts including the Audit
:49:55. > :49:58.Commission warn many other councils could soon face similar troubles.
:49:58. > :50:08.The Local Government Association were asked to help. Its view: West
:50:08. > :50:11.Somerset is not viable in the long term. Obviously, West Somerset are
:50:11. > :50:15.the most severe the moment, but many other authorities are
:50:15. > :50:19.struggling as well and there will be more as time goes on. The cuts
:50:19. > :50:25.that local authorities are facing, even though local government is the
:50:25. > :50:29.most effective of all government organisations, is just not
:50:29. > :50:33.sustainable. One way would be to whack up their part of the council
:50:33. > :50:39.tax - by 39%! That would put an extra �50 a year on bills, and
:50:39. > :50:44.require a risky local referendum. We do have to think very carefully
:50:44. > :50:50.about it. But would be sorry to see the end of West Somerset council.
:50:50. > :50:55.�1 a week. Well, probably one would have to. Now, I pay enough already.
:50:56. > :50:58.We pay a lot of money for our council tax where we lived. More
:50:58. > :51:01.immediately, they've asked the neighbours for help. Next door
:51:01. > :51:08.Sedgemoor may share more services - but its leader sounds a cautious
:51:08. > :51:12.note. Clearly, there would be savings by combining services, but
:51:12. > :51:18.the overriding problem is still that it is a large area with a
:51:18. > :51:23.small population. The difficulty is providing those services, and
:51:23. > :51:27.they're not going to go away just by an alternative providing those
:51:27. > :51:30.services. It is only a short-term measure. Some major decision will
:51:30. > :51:35.need to be made as to how those services could be provided in the
:51:35. > :51:38.future. The battle to save West Somerset has been fought and won
:51:38. > :51:40.before. But in 2007, it was from the threat to replace all the
:51:40. > :51:49.county's districts with one unitary authority. Some involved are now
:51:49. > :51:53.having second thoughts, encouraged by no less than Michael Heseltine.
:51:53. > :51:58.I believe local-government will increasingly need their help
:51:58. > :52:00.simpler structures which are more efficient and easy to deal with.
:52:00. > :52:03.His recent report for the Government was clear on the future
:52:03. > :52:08.of councils. There is great pressure on districts, more of them
:52:09. > :52:18.will want to go unitary. That will help with streamlining and decision
:52:19. > :52:19.
:52:19. > :52:23.making, and saves �10 million to 15 million a year in each county.
:52:23. > :52:28.in West Somerset right now, that's not the answer. Unfortunately, no
:52:28. > :52:37.one knows what is. The Conservative leader of West
:52:37. > :52:44.Somerset Council Tim Taylor joins us. Good to see it. With respect,
:52:44. > :52:48.you may have made a mess of this. don't think a current councillors
:52:48. > :52:54.have. We suffer from underfunding because of our sparsity. Much
:52:54. > :53:04.higher costs per head of population. Why is it so much higher? Do liver
:53:04. > :53:04.
:53:04. > :53:09.and services out unbeatable Exmoor -- delivering its services out on a
:53:10. > :53:14.beautiful Exmoor. We also have a higher percentage of call costs.
:53:14. > :53:18.Both those things really hit us and we do not get compared with other
:53:18. > :53:23.councils enough funding to recognise those two things. Over
:53:23. > :53:30.the years, have you kept the council tax to low? Won the county
:53:30. > :53:36.was booming back in 2004, for example, you put the tax up by 2.8%.
:53:36. > :53:38.That is 5p a week. If you had repaired the route when the sun was
:53:38. > :53:44.shining committees that Conservative phrase, would you be
:53:44. > :53:48.in this mess? That's a very good point. I was not a councillor when
:53:48. > :53:53.that happened. We have been capped now so we cannot put the tax up
:53:53. > :53:59.enough and that is why a referendum to raise council tax is one option.
:53:59. > :54:05.But it is not the only option. put this in perspective, to sort
:54:05. > :54:09.this that you are talking about every household paying an
:54:09. > :54:13.additional �99. Yeah, we have identified significant savings add
:54:13. > :54:19.to the savings already made. We would have to raise the council tax
:54:19. > :54:25.by �1 a week on a band D property. Let's bring in the other
:54:25. > :54:29.politicians. It's a false economy, isn't it? Deep-freeze council taxes
:54:29. > :54:33.and don't put them up properly, and you create problems down the road.
:54:33. > :54:38.Is that what some local authorities are doing now under this
:54:38. > :54:42.Conservative austerity plan? really. Actually, it doesn't make
:54:42. > :54:49.all that much difference. The central government cuts the grant,
:54:49. > :54:53.which they had to do, by 27%. Obviously that has a real effect on
:54:53. > :54:58.services on the ground. That is the reality of the debt will be handed
:54:58. > :55:02.by the Labour government. But there are ways to save money. Will John
:55:02. > :55:09.has done it. I know that West Somerset is different. But we have
:55:09. > :55:13.saved an enormous amount of money. That is an option, isn't it? Not so
:55:13. > :55:17.much a unitary, that is not on the agenda, it will not happen
:55:17. > :55:24.immediately. But we do have to work closely with our neighbouring
:55:24. > :55:31.councils and to have... It is more to do with... Finance is important.
:55:31. > :55:35.But expertise, resilience and capacity are important. I think we
:55:35. > :55:40.need to work with other councils. There is room for a democratically
:55:40. > :55:45.elected body in west Somerset. But we need to work closely with other
:55:45. > :55:51.councils to make sure we've got the capacity and expertise to do what
:55:51. > :55:56.we should for the people of West Somerset. Do you have any sympathy
:55:56. > :56:00.with this guy? This is one thing you can't blame Europe on.
:56:00. > :56:04.course. The government is not in a strong position to blame you for
:56:04. > :56:09.not living within their means, because the last thing George
:56:09. > :56:16.Osborne is doing is living within his means. For all the talk of cuts,
:56:16. > :56:20.government spending has gone through the roof. Last year, it was
:56:20. > :56:24.nearly �660 billion. So I don't know where these so-called cuts are
:56:24. > :56:32.coming from. There cuts in projected increases, but not cuts
:56:32. > :56:35.in actual spending. They can't print them money and they can't or
:56:35. > :56:43.indefinitely, unlike him. Sir you should have more cuts, is that what
:56:43. > :56:48.he is saying? We got to cut our coat according to the clock. The
:56:48. > :56:54.national debt will have doubled in the course of this Parliament from
:56:54. > :56:59.�750 billion to 1,000 500 billion. These are colossal sums of money.
:56:59. > :57:07.Patrick, you've been on a small council for 45 years. Kenny offered
:57:07. > :57:11.any advice to poor old West Somerset? It's not a small council.
:57:11. > :57:18.It's one of the biggest councils in the region! Far from me to offer
:57:18. > :57:28.advice, I have every sympathy for West Somerset. We have 160,000
:57:28. > :57:30.
:57:30. > :57:35.people, you're 35,000. We've got industries. I now appreciate how
:57:35. > :57:39.big you are! Is bankruptcy is serious option for you? And not in
:57:39. > :57:44.the next two years. We can certainly get through them.
:57:44. > :57:48.there. Limping on? We really have to cut costs. We understand
:57:48. > :57:58.national situation. Either we need more income or we have to work with
:57:58. > :57:59.
:57:59. > :58:02.other councils to cut our overheads. OK, thank you for coming in.
:58:02. > :58:09.Let's take a look at some of the other political stories from this
:58:09. > :58:13.week in our 60-second round up. George Ferguson has been sworn in
:58:13. > :58:16.as Bristol's first mayor. It was no coincidence that he chose Temple
:58:16. > :58:21.Meads station as the location, as he promised to put transport at the
:58:21. > :58:30.heart of his plans. He also renamed the council house City Hall and
:58:30. > :58:34.promised to abolish Sunday street parking charges in the city.
:58:34. > :58:39.going to do and not because I think it's wonderful that the city
:58:39. > :58:42.overtaken by cars, but because I want to make Sunday's special.
:58:42. > :58:45.other plans could include raising council tax to help cover the �32
:58:45. > :58:47.million worth of cuts the council will have to make.
:58:47. > :58:50.The new police and crime commissioners started work this
:58:50. > :58:58.week, and their first job will be appointing new chief constables to
:58:58. > :59:00.run our police forces. The person appointed has to be someone who
:59:00. > :59:03.shares my vision. And after what have been described
:59:03. > :59:13.as heated negotiations, the chief of Avon and Somerset also announced
:59:13. > :59:15.
:59:15. > :59:18.he is to step down after refusing to re-apply for his own job.
:59:18. > :59:25.Let's pick up on the story about the tensions between our police and
:59:25. > :59:31.crime commissioners and their chief constables. The chief constable in
:59:31. > :59:35.Avon and Somerset told the new PCC to take a running jump. There will
:59:36. > :59:39.be problems, when they? Possibly, or maybe this shows the advantage
:59:40. > :59:46.of these new positions. In Wiltshire, his first job is going
:59:46. > :59:54.to be to appoint the chief constable. A very important account
:59:54. > :00:01.meant -- appointment. He can now appoint someone who will take
:00:01. > :00:04.account of the public's views. Existing GE council balls --
:00:04. > :00:14.existing chief constables may not want to work with someone who they
:00:14. > :00:15.
:00:15. > :00:18.don't then knows anything about policing. UKIP didn't want police
:00:18. > :00:22.commissioners and acted. We wanted more elections at a more local
:00:22. > :00:26.level. But having said that, I think an elected police
:00:26. > :00:29.commissioner is better than not having any democratic control of
:00:29. > :00:33.the police. It gives a better form of accountability then was there
:00:33. > :00:37.before. Maybe with a bit of experience of how the situation
:00:37. > :00:42.works, the turnout at the next elections will be greater and there
:00:42. > :00:49.will be more public involvement. I think it's a good thing to have
:00:49. > :00:53.friction between the police commissioner and the Chief
:00:53. > :00:56.Constable, in so far as their priorities which are set by the
:00:56. > :01:04.operational police are different from what the people on the ground
:01:04. > :01:09.actually would like to see. That's what's been missing. For example?
:01:09. > :01:13.Do you want speeding cops on the M4, or do you want catching criminals?
:01:13. > :01:18.Do you want them to tackle terrorism, or do you want people up
:01:18. > :01:22.and down the streets. Those are political decisions, where you put
:01:22. > :01:28.the resources. It is right that a political person should make that
:01:28. > :01:33.decision. Why did nobody turn up in Wiltshire then? But there's nobody
:01:34. > :01:38.knew what it was about. I think he is actually write. In four years'
:01:38. > :01:41.time, people will say that they won their vote to count.