:01:21. > :01:23.In the West - tensions over our top cops. The newly elected Police and
:01:23. > :01:33.Crime Commissioners run into difficulties trying to appoint new
:01:33. > :01:33.
:01:33. > :43:49.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2536 seconds
:43:49. > :43:55.Chief Constables. One even ends in Thank you Andrew. And welcome to
:43:55. > :43:59.our first Sunday Politics in the west of 2013. This year has started
:43:59. > :44:02.with a bang for one of the new Police and Crime Commissioners. Sue
:44:02. > :44:10.Mountstevens ends up in the High Court after a bust up with the
:44:10. > :44:13.Chief Constable on their first meeting. In a moment I will be
:44:13. > :44:17.talking to the man who dreamt up the idea of police commissioners.
:44:17. > :44:20.But here in our interrogation room I am joined by two likely suspects.
:44:20. > :44:23.They are Ashley Fox for the Conservatives. And William
:44:23. > :44:28.Dartmouth from UKIP. They are both Euro MPs representing this part of
:44:28. > :44:31.the world. This week Honda announced plans to cut 800 jobs at
:44:31. > :44:33.its Swindon plant, blaming weak demand across Europe. It's a blow
:44:33. > :44:43.to jobs and the west's manufacturing industry. Ashley Fox
:44:43. > :44:43.
:44:43. > :44:51.- the crisis in Europe seems to be the root of the problem. It shows
:44:51. > :44:54.how we are in it together in Europe. And it also shows how the internal
:44:54. > :44:58.market and single market are. Who knows whether on the would continue
:44:58. > :45:02.to invest in the United Kingdom? This is disappointing news, but
:45:02. > :45:08.hopefully, the British economy is healing, and these will see their
:45:08. > :45:14.jobs return in the due course. The European economy is in the huge
:45:14. > :45:18.mess, because the euro was put together so bad the. Would they
:45:18. > :45:21.have even come to Swindon in the first place have not been in the
:45:21. > :45:28.EU? And I think it is very clear that the answer is yes, because
:45:28. > :45:38.there is other factors. There is the skilled workforce, and there is
:45:38. > :45:45.the English language. The other thing is that the tariff wall
:45:45. > :45:53.between continental Europe and the rest of the world is approximately
:45:53. > :46:03.5%, been accepted in two categories, but where and textiles. -- footwear.
:46:03. > :46:04.
:46:04. > :46:14.It is very important that Britain resits export efforts into the rest
:46:14. > :46:16.
:46:16. > :46:19.of the world. We would talk more on Now to one of the biggest stories
:46:19. > :46:22.of the week - the very public row between the new Police Commissioner
:46:22. > :46:25.for Avon and Somerset and the Chief Constable. In their very first
:46:25. > :46:29.meeting - they fell out - and the chief constable - Colin Port says
:46:29. > :46:32.he was humiliated into retirement. It came to a head in the High Court
:46:32. > :46:35.when Mr Port unsuccessfully tried to sue. Here's Paul Barltrop. It's
:46:35. > :46:40.been a baptism of fire for Avon and Somerset's new police commissioner,
:46:41. > :46:45.just seven weeks into the job. you responsible for the breakdown
:46:45. > :46:47.of the relationship? The high court judge criticised her - but ruled
:46:47. > :46:50.against the departing chief constable. Colin Port's barrister
:46:50. > :46:56.argued he'd been "humiliated" by an "arbitary" decision by the new
:46:56. > :47:02.Commissioner, and "unlawfully induced to retire". Which are
:47:02. > :47:06.delighted that the High Court has decided that the commissioner's
:47:06. > :47:14.decisions were lawful in every respect. Colin Port may appeal -
:47:14. > :47:17.insisting it's vital for the position of all police chiefs.
:47:17. > :47:22.clashes unprecedented, and does not bode well for the future. At the
:47:22. > :47:28.same time, there has been strong criticism in the way the posts have
:47:28. > :47:31.set up. One of those people had hoped to go for the job. When
:47:31. > :47:33.Labour paraded their candidates for PCC last summer, they were proud of
:47:33. > :47:36.Bob Ashford. Politically he'd served as councillor and mayor of
:47:36. > :47:43.Frome in Somerset. Professionally he'd been a senior official
:47:43. > :47:49.advising the government on youth justice. By a was cleared by the
:47:49. > :47:56.Home Office, I was working on security sensitive information,
:47:56. > :48:01.against extremism, for instance. was working with top government
:48:01. > :48:06.officials. I could go to the meetings in Number Ten. I could
:48:07. > :48:10.talk to anyone and be trusted. a childhood offence - trespassing
:48:11. > :48:12.by a railway line with lads who had an air gun - meant he was barred
:48:13. > :48:17.from standing. Other withdrawals followed, including Falklands War
:48:17. > :48:21.veteran Simon Weston. The rules for becoming a PCC are stricter than
:48:21. > :48:29.for police officers or MPs. He's joined forces with Bob Ashford to
:48:29. > :48:34.launch a campaign called wipe the slate clean. I like to believe that
:48:34. > :48:39.it is the law of a retentive consequences. I do not believe when
:48:39. > :48:42.this was being legislated, they understood the full implications of
:48:43. > :48:48.what they were doing. That is absolutely clear. The message that
:48:48. > :48:53.has come from this legislation, which really must be undone, is
:48:53. > :48:57.that regardless of how long ago you committed an offence, how mind of
:48:58. > :49:03.that was, even if you have fully accepted the defence you have
:49:03. > :49:06.committed, you can never be fully rehabilitated. He's disappointed
:49:06. > :49:08.with the response he's had back from government. But the
:49:08. > :49:18.controversies surrounding last year's PCC elections may be a lower
:49:18. > :49:22.priority for ministers than the rows that have followed. Let's
:49:23. > :49:27.cross to Westminster. We will talk to the architect of the police and
:49:28. > :49:31.crime Commissioner role. You will want the job plans could set
:49:31. > :49:37.commissioners and chief constables on a war footing. That happened
:49:37. > :49:46.within a day in a firm and Somerset. Others warned that lots of things
:49:46. > :49:51.could happen. 15th November was a terrible day. One -- this was
:49:51. > :49:57.political vandalism. It would politicise the police. I think
:49:57. > :50:01.since 15th November, very little has happened which in any way
:50:01. > :50:07.damages the hopes people have for police and crime commissioners. Of
:50:07. > :50:12.course, there are teething problems. The Chief Constable wants to
:50:12. > :50:19.protect his own interests. It will now be settled, he may appeal, he
:50:19. > :50:24.may not. But this is only a little local difficulty in the first few
:50:24. > :50:33.months of an enormous change to present arrangements for policing
:50:33. > :50:38.this country. We have lost a raft of experienced officers. I agree,
:50:38. > :50:44.and I am sorry about this. I wish some of them have stayed on. Many
:50:44. > :50:48.felt the threat to resign rather than serve on the PCCs would derail
:50:49. > :50:55.the project. The Home Secretary made it clear from day one she
:50:55. > :50:59.would proceed with this. She fought on despite terrible opposition from
:50:59. > :51:07.all sides. It is now the law. I am sorry that some of the chief
:51:07. > :51:13.constables, who are very able indeed, say, OK, fine, you've won.
:51:14. > :51:20.There are large number of applicants for these vacant posts,
:51:20. > :51:26.but... Bay are people who want to work their way up the greasy pole.
:51:26. > :51:36.Most MPs are running their forces anyway! I am not worried at all. It
:51:36. > :51:36.
:51:36. > :51:42.is a change that was very much resisted by the Commission in early
:51:42. > :51:47.days. I am sorry to leave some officers experience. We have not
:51:47. > :51:53.run out of talent. Yours so what does briefly that voters would
:51:53. > :51:58.ignore the elections, and most did. Yes. I said it was very difficult
:51:58. > :52:02.for people to appreciate the full significance of these elections,
:52:02. > :52:11.and perhaps we did not get the message across. Perhaps people were
:52:11. > :52:14.not conscious enough of what was happening for a number of reasons.
:52:14. > :52:22.Elections in November. The turnout was disappointingly low. But I
:52:22. > :52:32.think you will find that if we had more elections next year, I am very
:52:32. > :52:34.
:52:34. > :52:41.encouraged by the way the new posts have come about. Let's tell talk to
:52:41. > :52:48.You have fallen out with your own crime panel. What has happened
:52:48. > :52:54.there? They are a upset about the process. We will be meeting them on
:52:54. > :52:58.Monday. There was a fair and open process. What happened there? While
:52:58. > :53:05.they are upset with you? They her do it via the media rather than
:53:05. > :53:09.through me. Were to do not tell them first? I did. I told them with
:53:09. > :53:18.a message on their answer phone. We have to confirm the employment on
:53:18. > :53:24.Monday. I know that. It is bad that I did not Britain before hand. I am
:53:24. > :53:31.sorry. They could be so you're appointment. -- the tone your
:53:31. > :53:39.appointment. I think the place to do this is on Monday. In front of
:53:39. > :53:45.the panel. We can deal with it then. I don't quite understand the FA.
:53:45. > :53:53.There's bring in our other guests. UKIP did not put anyone up for
:53:53. > :54:00.elections. On the contrary, we put up 24 candidates. We did not put
:54:00. > :54:05.any up in the area where you were elected. I must congratulate you
:54:05. > :54:11.for getting in as an independent. We were disappointed with the
:54:11. > :54:20.politicisation of the police. Many of these people are put in by
:54:20. > :54:26.establishment political parties. We just heard from the Pier. He is a
:54:26. > :54:31.good salesman. It is an unconvincing rationale for what has
:54:31. > :54:39.happened. I think the whole thing of Police Commissioner --
:54:39. > :54:44.commissioners is her jolly bad idea. If -- what we have bought a police
:54:44. > :54:51.off -- police authority he was enormous. No one knew who they were.
:54:51. > :54:55.This will make a marginal step forward in accountability.
:54:55. > :55:00.million was the cost of the elections. Was that money well
:55:00. > :55:03.spent? Or I think it was. Over the decades ahead, we will seek things
:55:03. > :55:11.improve. If you like what the commission it does, you can like
:55:11. > :55:21.him, and if you don't, you couldn't. I think this is a good reform.
:55:21. > :55:24.
:55:24. > :55:28.I think it is. It is a wonderful opportunity to do that. There will
:55:28. > :55:34.be things coming out in the wash. There will be early disagreements.
:55:34. > :55:40.But this is not a bad reform. problem was is that no one knew who
:55:40. > :55:45.you were, and there was no budget put out election material which
:55:46. > :55:50.explains the low turnout. You just have to work hard. People in
:55:50. > :55:55.Gloucestershire know I work very hard. I was out and about. They
:55:55. > :56:00.know who I am. I did it with my own funds and no donations. It was a
:56:00. > :56:05.good fight, and I've won, and now they have to put up with me for 3
:56:05. > :56:12.1/2 years, and see how I am going to do. I am going to do a good job.
:56:12. > :56:17.Are you convince your post will not be overturn next week? Let's hope
:56:17. > :56:22.the panel -- let's hear what the panel has to say. Other selected as
:56:22. > :56:32.the best candidate for the job in a fair and open process. -- I was
:56:32. > :56:34.
:56:34. > :56:37.selected. In which you very much Well now to something
:56:37. > :56:40.uncontroversial - Europe. Just kidding! UKIP are having a great
:56:40. > :56:43.time - riding high in the polls - and if large numbers of disaffected
:56:43. > :56:45.Conservatives switch their vote at the next election the Tories will
:56:45. > :56:49.be toast. Not surprisingly then, some Conservatives think they
:56:49. > :56:51.should do a deal with UKIP - the party that David Cameron says is
:56:51. > :56:57.full of eccentrics. Charlotte Callen reports. They're a party
:56:57. > :57:00.with a spring in their step. UKIP are riding high in the polls with
:57:01. > :57:05.some putting their support at up to 16% nationally - that's above the
:57:05. > :57:08.Lib Dems. But the party have long been a force in West Country
:57:08. > :57:12.politics - they came second here in the 2009 European elections with
:57:12. > :57:15.22% of the vote. Labour were pushed into fourth place. And here in
:57:15. > :57:17.Wells - this man was, according to the former Tory MP for the area
:57:18. > :57:23.David Heathcote-Amory, responsible for him losing in the general
:57:23. > :57:33.election in 2010. UKIP polled over one thousand votes here - he lost
:57:33. > :57:34.
:57:34. > :57:37.by only 800 votes to the Lib Dem candidate Tessa Munt. The the
:57:37. > :57:41.Conservatives are becoming scared and realising that we are a real
:57:41. > :57:44.threat to their seats. I feel passionately that we do not want to
:57:44. > :57:49.do a deal whatsoever. Most of the people I have talked to do not want
:57:50. > :57:56.to do a deal with the Conservatives, and even Nigel Farage, our leader,
:57:56. > :58:05.does not want to a deal. Those types of deals are long gone, and
:58:05. > :58:08.they are going to have to reap what play so. -- reap what they so.
:58:08. > :58:11.Nigel Farage their leader is confident of big things for UKIP
:58:11. > :58:13.here in the West Country. And their success could be costly for the
:58:13. > :58:23.other political parties. Some Conservatives are openly worried
:58:23. > :58:28.
:58:28. > :58:32.and think David Cameron should do a deal with UKIP. When you have UKIP
:58:32. > :58:35.at local and national elections, they have a potential to be no
:58:36. > :58:39.members of parliament. The party still has a long way to go to win
:58:39. > :58:46.seats in local and parliamentary elections. I would not be vote for
:58:46. > :58:52.them personally. I think Europe is a very good thing, and I am
:58:52. > :58:55.disappointed that other people do not agree. We go to -- we have an
:58:55. > :59:04.opportunity to lead in Europe. We just turn it down the whole time.
:59:04. > :59:08.Yes, I would consider voting Europe. The euro is a big issue. It is
:59:08. > :59:18.important for Europe -- the UK to return to the state of its own
:59:18. > :59:23.sovereignty. I would not vote UKIP. I do not think that they are bad or
:59:23. > :59:26.mad, but I would not vote for them. But just by standing in local and
:59:26. > :59:36.at the next general election, they could impact on who wins or by how
:59:36. > :59:44.
:59:44. > :59:49.Should UKIP to a deal with the Conservatives? Absolute not. I
:59:49. > :59:59.think there is a misconception in the film, which suggests that UKIP
:59:59. > :00:05.does not only boats for the Conservatives. It takes votes from
:00:05. > :00:15.Labour and the Liberal Democrats. Let's talk a about what happened in
:00:15. > :00:16.
:00:16. > :00:25.Nick Wells. The UKIP guy got 1,000 You put in Tessa Munt, whose pro-
:00:25. > :00:33.European. In the Wells constituency, there were at UKIP candidates.
:00:33. > :00:42.There were candidates in 2005, 2001 and 1997. In 1992 there was a
:00:42. > :00:51.referendum Party candidate. As the BBC said, he was a casualty of the
:00:51. > :00:56.expenses scandal. What did you stay and against him? Because we eat are
:00:56. > :01:05.a political candidate -- party who stands candidates in every
:01:05. > :01:12.constituency. Mr Cameron says he is going to renegotiate with Europe on
:01:12. > :01:16.generate 22nd. Is that realistic? It is entirely realistic, because
:01:16. > :01:25.in two or three years' time, there will be a renewal of the European
:01:25. > :01:30.treaters. The -- Europe is not going to be -- is going to
:01:30. > :01:34.negotiate a political union. I anticipate the Conservative
:01:34. > :01:43.position will be to go ahead and form the federation. We will not
:01:43. > :01:52.stop that. But in return, we want the repatriation of certain powers.
:01:52. > :01:57.It and then he will forced to be have a referendum? I think this is
:01:57. > :02:03.part of the deal, and I think our European partners are willing to
:02:03. > :02:07.play. Why don't you leave? We do want to root remain part of a
:02:07. > :02:12.single market. That is really important. On they came to the
:02:12. > :02:16.United Kingdom because we are part of the single market. -- Honda came
:02:16. > :02:21.to the United Kingdom. We need to say to Europe, at the moment, you
:02:21. > :02:26.have too much power over how Britain is run. We want to change
:02:26. > :02:33.that relationship. British politicians have been saying this
:02:33. > :02:41.for a long time. I remember in 1975, Harold Wilson had a referendum
:02:41. > :02:48.saying here are some note -- new terms. What you are offering is
:02:48. > :02:56.that it is not on offer. The fat of the matter is that the European
:02:56. > :03:06.Union is a reformed and under former ball -- it is unable to be
:03:06. > :03:06.
:03:06. > :03:11.reformed. The factor the matter is what is on offer is either a
:03:11. > :03:18.federal Europe, a clattering train of integration going on and on and
:03:18. > :03:28.on, all we get out. We will be much better if we got out. Instead of
:03:28. > :03:31.
:03:31. > :03:36.being tied to this low-growth sclerotic declining Europe. Ribald
:03:36. > :03:45.to bat there if we go through and renegotiate our position with
:03:45. > :03:53.Europe. If I am wrong, if the EU says there is no change possible,
:03:53. > :04:02.then maybe William is right. But we have had ago. Should Mr Cameron
:04:02. > :04:12.have called UKIP fruitcakes? I think some of the UKIP MEPs art
:04:12. > :04:12.
:04:12. > :04:17.fruitcakes. David Cameron went to head the Dow, Eton and Oxford, just
:04:17. > :04:24.like I did, and those three schools, teach you that you play the ball
:04:24. > :04:29.and not the man. It is about policy, not people. He should stop
:04:29. > :04:39.personalising politics in this way. Now it is time for our 62nd round
:04:39. > :04:47.
:04:47. > :04:49.If you're a council tax payer in Bristol then your bills look set to
:04:50. > :04:52.go up. The newly-elected mayor George Ferguson says it's needed to
:04:52. > :04:54.balance the budget. He's also warned there will be some
:04:55. > :04:58.compulsory redundancies. And the city council was under fire this
:04:58. > :05:00.week for letting a four year old girl continue to stay with a foster
:05:01. > :05:04.family, despite one of the foster arents being investigated for
:05:04. > :05:06.downloading pictures of child abuse. All the rain at the end of last
:05:06. > :05:09.year has caused an estimated �2.1 million of damage to
:05:09. > :05:12.Gloucestershire's roads. The county council says most of the bill is
:05:12. > :05:15.caused by a couple of landslips and potholes.And the Wiltshire Tory
:05:15. > :05:19.Claire Perry and her 13 year old daughter Eliza are spending a week
:05:19. > :05:22.in Africa living without running water or electricity. Before flying
:05:22. > :05:30.out they were briefed by Gambians who've come to Wiltshire thanks to
:05:30. > :05:40.a twinning link with Marlborough. It is a great partnership. There is
:05:40. > :05:43.
:05:43. > :05:47.lots of learning. Ironed that have Let's pick up on one of those
:05:47. > :05:55.stories. Should councillors be increasing the amount that people
:05:55. > :06:05.have to pay in these hard times? Would you think? I am rather they
:06:05. > :06:06.
:06:06. > :06:11.didn't. This is his plan. He will be treated -- he will be a judge in
:06:11. > :06:20.three-and-a-half years' time. think the people will be very
:06:20. > :06:24.disappointed that cuts the tax is going to be raised. More cuts?
:06:25. > :06:30.There will be cut anyway. If we freeze cancer test, those cuts will
:06:30. > :06:35.be greater. But his judgment the mayor has to take. That is all we