:01:19. > :01:22.$:/STARTFEED. In the West - are the poor about to
:01:22. > :01:25.get poorer still? This April will see sweeping changes to benefits
:01:25. > :01:35.linked to housing. We are looking at who is going to lose out.
:01:35. > :01:35.
:01:35. > :42:07.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2431 seconds
:42:07. > :42:12.Bankia. Welcome to the Sunday Politics in the West. -- thank key.
:42:12. > :42:17.Coming up: Pay up or get out. What one of grieving widow has been told
:42:17. > :42:25.as big changes are made to housing and council tax benefits. Alastair
:42:25. > :42:32.do guests are two politicians who would not give each other house
:42:33. > :42:38.room. -- our two guests. We are talking about housing in a moment.
:42:38. > :42:43.First, the Gay Marriage Bill, which will be debated on Tuesday. Why are
:42:43. > :42:47.so many Conservatives Against It? All sorts of reasons. It is a very
:42:47. > :42:52.complicated and difficult issue. I was moving towards being in favour
:42:52. > :42:58.of it when add that it was going to be registry offices. I have
:42:58. > :43:01.received 2000 representations in Yorkshire of people opposed to it.
:43:01. > :43:05.Not one single recommendation in favour of it. I will vote against
:43:05. > :43:11.it because I think it is wrong and I do not want it to happen.
:43:11. > :43:17.Churches should not be required... Of if it were simply a question of
:43:17. > :43:21.changing the words to registry offices, that would be fine. It is
:43:21. > :43:27.only a matter of time before the European Court of Human Rights and
:43:27. > :43:34.others say, actually, you are now required to do this event if you do
:43:34. > :43:39.not want to. There is a good triple-lock on this. It is absolute
:43:39. > :43:44.leader. It enables churches that wish to undertake equal marriages
:43:44. > :43:49.to do so. It should be a celebration of two people who love
:43:49. > :43:52.each other. There is no discrimination whatsoever. People
:43:53. > :43:58.in the same sex who want to get married in the church and if the
:43:58. > :44:03.Church once and to get married, they are unable to do so. You are
:44:03. > :44:07.admitting it is about churches! If it is the case, I say leave it to
:44:07. > :44:17.them. They cannot do it at the moment. If you are a Quaker, you
:44:17. > :44:18.
:44:18. > :44:28.cannot do that. My friend had a registry office civil partnership
:44:28. > :44:28.
:44:28. > :44:34.and that was fine. Have you got a similar post bag to him? Are people
:44:34. > :44:40.opposing it? I know of people who said that because of religious
:44:40. > :44:44.reasons... Probably 90% wet if not more, are in favour of it. They
:44:44. > :44:52.understand that churches are not being forced to do it. They can
:44:52. > :44:56.marry people if they wish to. I think it is terrific. If people
:44:56. > :44:59.oppose it and wished to vote against it, that is their
:44:59. > :45:03.prerogative. I am glad there is a free vote in the House of Commons
:45:03. > :45:09.and the House of Lords. So am I. Why is the Archbishop of Canterbury
:45:09. > :45:15.and all the bishops, with the exception of the Quakers, they are
:45:15. > :45:20.totally opposed to it? Other churches want to do it. More of
:45:20. > :45:30.that in the week ahead. Some of the poorest people in society will soon
:45:30. > :45:34.get a bit poorer. The Government is making changes on housing benefit.
:45:34. > :45:38.They're changing council tax relief. If you live in a council house or a
:45:38. > :45:46.property owned by a housing association, you can also get
:45:46. > :45:50.clobbered. If you have the spare room, you can lose some housing
:45:50. > :45:55.benefit. Julie is still grieving. This is the bedroom she shared with
:45:56. > :46:01.her husband before his death from cancer. That is the artwork that he
:46:01. > :46:06.did before he died. Her children are grown up, so there is a spare
:46:06. > :46:12.bedroom at her council house. This July, a year since being widowed,
:46:12. > :46:17.she will be ordered to pay an extra �500 a year or moved. This is where
:46:17. > :46:23.I had been for 30 years. I have brought up of family. I have
:46:23. > :46:28.grandchildren to come. My husband lived and died here. It is not just
:46:28. > :46:33.a case of downsizing. Cases like hers have caused alarm. What has
:46:33. > :46:37.been dubbed the bedroom tax was raised at Prime Minister's
:46:37. > :46:41.Questions. There are many people in private rented accommodation
:46:41. > :46:47.without housing benefit he cannot afford extra bedrooms. We need to
:46:47. > :46:50.get control of this. They are spending as a country �23 billion
:46:50. > :46:56.on housing benefit and we have to get that budget under control.
:46:56. > :47:01.April could tenants with one extra bedroom will lose 14% of housing
:47:01. > :47:05.benefit. Those with two or more spare rooms face a cut of 25%.
:47:05. > :47:08.Pensioners are protected, as they are from the other big change.
:47:08. > :47:12.Working-age people who currently get their council tax paid by
:47:12. > :47:18.benefit may have to start paying hundreds of pounds, as the
:47:18. > :47:21.Government hands over administering the system. It is a tough call for
:47:21. > :47:30.councils will stock-take over the running of council tax benefits, so
:47:30. > :47:36.the Government. -- running of councils. At the specially convened
:47:36. > :47:40.full meeting, the Conservative run council debated on whether to cut
:47:40. > :47:47.spending elsewhere. Impossible, both parties agreed. People on
:47:47. > :47:51.benefit will have to pay. We do not have a lot of fat. I would like to
:47:51. > :47:57.think we are a very efficient council. It does not leave a lot of
:47:57. > :48:01.wiggle room when you get these Exocet it's locked in by government.
:48:01. > :48:06.They're just imposing a tax on people on very low incomes. They're
:48:06. > :48:11.trying to dodge the real impact of their decision-making at Parliament.
:48:11. > :48:16.For those on benefits, attending Bridgewater JobCentre, it is a
:48:16. > :48:23.worry. That is absolutely going to scupper Ming. I can hardly look, as
:48:23. > :48:28.it is. -- scupper any. It would be very difficult. A lot of families
:48:28. > :48:33.would be in more trouble than they are in now. It is hard for us to
:48:33. > :48:42.provide an live properly. They are basically rising and increasing the
:48:42. > :48:46.council tax and taking away money that you need. I would have to move
:48:46. > :48:52.back in with my mum. Back in Kingswood, Julie feels it is unfair
:48:52. > :48:56.that those with the least of being hit. Finding the money would be
:48:56. > :49:01.difficult. Doing anything else would be worse. The thought of
:49:01. > :49:08.packing up, closing my front door, handing the keys in and not living
:49:08. > :49:12.here any more is unthinkable. It is just unbearable. My political
:49:12. > :49:16.guests are still with me to discuss all of theirs. Under Labour,
:49:16. > :49:24.housing benefit has doubled. Now the chickens have come home to
:49:24. > :49:30.roost and they have got to make cuts. We all agree that there has
:49:30. > :49:35.to be some cuts. I think that the welfare cuts that are taking place
:49:35. > :49:42.at the moment are absolutely wrong. They are hitting people at the very
:49:42. > :49:47.time when rich people are actually having tax rebates. Enormous tax
:49:47. > :49:52.rebates. That is wrong. The bedroom tax will hit people who should not
:49:52. > :49:57.be hit. Why shouldn't that Lady hang on to her bedroom, just in
:49:57. > :50:03.case her grandchildren want to stay? What about the problems that
:50:03. > :50:08.are being caused poor housing associations? My own housing
:50:08. > :50:12.association understands the need for people to downsize but they do
:50:12. > :50:16.not have any smaller properties for these people to live in. This is
:50:16. > :50:22.affecting some of the poorest people in society. What have they
:50:22. > :50:28.done to deserve that? 250,000 people today are on homeless
:50:28. > :50:34.waiting lists. They want a house but they cannot get one. 1 million
:50:34. > :50:37.people in England today have too small a house. They need that extra
:50:37. > :50:41.room. There are lots of other people who the state is subsidising
:50:41. > :50:46.in the fact they have a bigger house than they need. Housing
:50:46. > :50:50.benefits are out of control. The state is subsidising people living
:50:50. > :50:56.in a bigger house than a need for other people have no has to living
:50:56. > :51:01.at will. We're trying to find a way to rebalance that. -- no house.
:51:01. > :51:08.brother and sister living together. One of them dies. The survivor has
:51:08. > :51:12.to pay, lose benefit or move out. There will be a 12 month waiting
:51:12. > :51:17.period. If a single person is living in a two-bedroom of three-
:51:17. > :51:22.bedroom house, they have to pay more through benefit all they have
:51:22. > :51:30.to move out. Next door, a five- person family is living in a one-
:51:30. > :51:38.bedroom house. It is their home! Where are these people going to
:51:38. > :51:43.move? Where will they move? matter how many spare bedrooms you
:51:43. > :51:48.have got, if you are on housing benefit, you must be allowed to
:51:48. > :51:53.stay in that house. If not, you are supporting what we are actually
:51:53. > :51:56.doing. Many people would wish to move to smaller accommodation.
:51:56. > :52:01.Where someone dies, and the lady he was interviewed in the piece just
:52:01. > :52:05.now, I think it is wrong for that woman to have to move out of her
:52:06. > :52:09.home. We should not use these emotional cases. We're talking
:52:09. > :52:13.about the generality of people, where a very large number of people
:52:13. > :52:18.are living in houses that are too big for them. The state is paying
:52:18. > :52:22.for it. The money is not going to these people themselves. The money
:52:22. > :52:26.is going to go to private landlords. I am a great believer in
:52:26. > :52:30.redistribution of wealth. Let's find another family that needs that
:52:30. > :52:34.house and is living on the street or in inadequate accommodation.
:52:34. > :52:42.Under Labour, there would be no housing benefit cuts. Is that
:52:42. > :52:47.right? There would be some cuts. We have to look at the way in which it
:52:47. > :52:52.is implemented. What we would not want is the bedroom tax. That is
:52:52. > :52:58.unfair and unjust for poorer people. It is also a pejorative term. All
:52:58. > :53:02.we're doing is equalising the use of scarce resources in housing.
:53:02. > :53:08.are taxing people four bedrooms. That is why it is called the
:53:08. > :53:11.bedroom tax. We will come back to party politics in just a minute.
:53:11. > :53:16.Before that, some independent thinking. We have an independent
:53:16. > :53:19.mayor in Bristol. A new group wants to field a handful of independent
:53:19. > :53:24.candidates at the local elections in May. The have been here before
:53:24. > :53:28.with the likes of Martin Bell, the former BBC correspondent.
:53:28. > :53:35.Independents are running things in Somerset. Is this the start of a
:53:35. > :53:40.new movement in local politics? Independents are in vogue. Bristol
:53:40. > :53:45.has an independent men and three of our police forces have independent
:53:45. > :53:52.commissioners. Is there more to come up? What we are not is a
:53:52. > :53:55.political party. But they are a new group. Independents for Bristol
:53:55. > :54:01.canvassed for candidates for the May elections. Bristol is very
:54:01. > :54:08.unusual. It is a minority of towns and cities where there are no
:54:08. > :54:15.independent candidates what so ever. -- it is in a minority. In north
:54:16. > :54:21.Somerset, seven and West Somerset, seven. They hope to contest a
:54:22. > :54:26.handful of the seats up for grabs. How did they attract any attention?
:54:26. > :54:30.How will anyone know they are standing? What we can do is provide
:54:30. > :54:34.the central focus for our activities - some training. Help
:54:34. > :54:39.them with leaflets and give them a common independence for Bristol
:54:39. > :54:43.look. They were inspired by what happened here in Froome.
:54:43. > :54:51.Independents took control of the town council two years ago. What
:54:51. > :54:56.was most ignorant for us was there was a 75% increase in turn out. --
:54:56. > :55:03.significant. The former council chief executive says independently
:55:03. > :55:07.Ore bring fresh thinking and their time has come. -- independents.
:55:07. > :55:12.Political parties cannot draw in a number of people. Here, most of
:55:12. > :55:16.them could not put up a candidate in most wards. People are beginning
:55:16. > :55:23.to think the old Star politics is over. If we are not careful, will
:55:23. > :55:26.be left with analogue politics in a digital age. -- we will be laughed.
:55:26. > :55:29.We have been here before at the start of the digital age when
:55:29. > :55:35.Bristol did have an independent councillor and a new independent
:55:35. > :55:39.group had its first meeting. I am the only independent councillor in
:55:39. > :55:43.Bristol and others like to have more with me. I would like to feel
:55:43. > :55:47.that people are talking about the needs of the ward and not the party.
:55:47. > :55:53.The party system in Bristol has had a pernicious effect on the
:55:53. > :55:58.efficiency of local government. It has been banned by parties was that
:55:58. > :56:03.they can only think of parties. Party's first, voter's second.
:56:03. > :56:08.is those voters who will ultimately decide. Seasoned politicians are
:56:08. > :56:13.not convinced they will be won over. As a voter, you like to know what
:56:13. > :56:18.you are voting for. With independents it does not tell you
:56:18. > :56:21.what is inside. With a party, at least you know their background,
:56:21. > :56:27.where they're coming from. Beano the record and here you are voting
:56:27. > :56:30.for. You do not know that with independents. The mayor and the
:56:30. > :56:40.police commissioner has managed it was tapas and they change the face
:56:40. > :56:45.of local politics here so good? -- managed it. Can a change? Chris is
:56:45. > :56:49.an independent blogger and consultant. You ran the campaign
:56:49. > :56:55.for the Bristol man. Thank you for coming in. What is so special about
:56:55. > :57:00.independent? I think, in terms of local politics, and particularly in
:57:00. > :57:08.terms of Bristol, there is a general consensus and perception
:57:08. > :57:13.that local party politics has failed. Bristol has not punched its
:57:13. > :57:17.rate for a long time. Part of that problem is the party political
:57:17. > :57:21.strictures that are put on members. You only have to look at the fall-
:57:21. > :57:25.out from the election. The Labour Party was going to join the Cabinet,
:57:25. > :57:29.then they were not. Then they were and the local council has decided
:57:29. > :57:34.that would be in the best interests of Bristol before the national
:57:34. > :57:37.executive committee said you cannot. They put the kibosh on it. I do not
:57:37. > :57:45.think anyone with the best interests of Bristol at heart
:57:45. > :57:49.things that is a good idea. thinks. They spring up another.
:57:49. > :57:54.There was mention. From the point of view of a voter, it you vote for
:57:54. > :57:59.a political party, you know what you're getting. If you vote for an
:57:59. > :58:05.independent, they might have a range of issues that are not
:58:05. > :58:11.consistent. That is a bit of a silly view. Really? I also think it
:58:11. > :58:16.is part of the problem. With party politicians at local level, you do
:58:16. > :58:20.know what you are getting. You getting a party doctrine. You are
:58:20. > :58:25.not getting a councillor who can vote for the best interests of a
:58:25. > :58:31.ward. If you go before a selection process for a party, chair we say
:58:31. > :58:36.that deluded and the eccentrics are weeded out in advance? -- shall we
:58:36. > :58:41.say? That is not necessarily true. All the parties are struggling with
:58:41. > :58:45.candidate selection and supply. I do not know how independents at
:58:45. > :58:50.Bristol will set themselves up but, from what I understand, they will
:58:51. > :58:55.have some selection process. So that they can Bill to the
:58:55. > :59:01.candidates that will subscribe. Then they become a party. Let's
:59:01. > :59:05.bring in some other guests. Do you accept your parties and others have
:59:05. > :59:09.ruined local government? I do not think they have ruined local
:59:09. > :59:13.government at all. There are some fantastic Labour councils up and
:59:13. > :59:20.down the country, doing a splendid job - tried to mitigate the effects
:59:20. > :59:30.of cuts. I'm not in need to be political. It is a very difficult
:59:30. > :59:32.
:59:32. > :59:39.atmosphere. -- I'm not meaning to be political. Why I went -- why it
:59:39. > :59:43.will Labour do not work with the independent Met in Bristol?
:59:43. > :59:47.imagine that you would be that, come next May, we would be fighting
:59:47. > :59:51.against some independent councillors, and it could have been
:59:52. > :59:58.quite a difficult situation to have members in the Cabinet of the mayor
:59:58. > :00:01.who were fighting other people within the Cabinet? If local
:00:01. > :00:07.government is about making sure the pavements are even and the roads
:00:07. > :00:17.are swept, why do we need a politician to do that? Why not be
:00:17. > :00:18.
:00:18. > :00:23.good and upstanding person? believe. -- I believe in that. Good
:00:23. > :00:27.men and women who have the local area at the forefront of their
:00:27. > :00:32.minds, particularly at town and parish level, it is great. The
:00:32. > :00:38.gentleman in the piece was correct in a way. Where there is a party
:00:38. > :00:47.system at all, you have to know what it stands to. Conservatives
:00:47. > :00:50.stand for lower council tax. Are we on the verge of a new independent
:00:50. > :00:55.revolution in local government? That remains to be seen. The
:00:55. > :01:02.situation in Bristol means that is very possible. The environment is
:01:02. > :01:06.right for a group of independents. It has been talked about for a long
:01:06. > :01:11.time. It is a very realistic possibility. We will have to leave
:01:11. > :01:21.it there. Thank you for coming in. Time to take a look at the
:01:21. > :01:23.
:01:24. > :01:27.political stories of the week in our 62nd round-up. -- 60 second
:01:27. > :01:30.round-up. Airbus is taking on some engineers with the help of
:01:31. > :01:35.government investment. The Government is hugely profitable so
:01:35. > :01:41.the grant raised a question with the minister. The us Airbus really
:01:41. > :01:46.need 1.5 million from the tax payers? -- does Airbus? You would
:01:46. > :01:56.not expect us to put money into losers. A war of words involving
:01:56. > :02:01.Eric Pickles. He accused people -- the Government of treating
:02:01. > :02:07.residents with contempt. We all get tarred with the same brush was that
:02:07. > :02:13.it is not very helpful. region's biggest bus firm agreed to
:02:13. > :02:17.review offence. Publicly owned forests, including the Forest of
:02:17. > :02:27.Dean, will not be sold off. It has reversed its plans after a public
:02:27. > :02:31.outcry. That Was the Week in just one minute. How time flies! Let's
:02:31. > :02:34.pick up on a couple of those stories. The minister's visit to
:02:34. > :02:39.Airbus and the Government giving money for a successful company like
:02:39. > :02:44.Airbus to recruit. Why's that? Why did they deserve the money?
:02:44. > :02:48.would not want to give money to a failing company. In giving money to
:02:48. > :02:53.a good company - half-French - it is very important that we should
:02:53. > :02:59.keep them in Bristol. It is important we should employ these
:02:59. > :03:04.100 people. A bit of money, 1.5 million, it does precisely that. I
:03:04. > :03:08.welcome government investment in this area. I do agree but I would
:03:08. > :03:14.be very interested to know their view on the European Union as well.
:03:14. > :03:19.Whether or not we should be in the European Union. Airbus will be here,
:03:19. > :03:24.in or not. The good news is that this week, David Cameron will be
:03:24. > :03:28.having an in/out referendum. Would you have an in/out referendum?
:03:28. > :03:33.We're not in government at the moment. You are. It is wrong to
:03:33. > :03:40.have a referendum at the moment. What about in the next parliament?
:03:41. > :03:50.We have to see what happens. will you vote? You would vote for
:03:50. > :03:56.no? I want David Cameron to campaign very hard the terms
:03:56. > :03:59.changed. I want the reformed European Union as well. You also
:03:59. > :04:05.campaigned for the FA is not to be sold off. The Government has said
:04:05. > :04:13.it does less than. They have listened to not just to people like
:04:13. > :04:18.me but for a fantastic campaigners. Save our forests campaign. Real
:04:18. > :04:21.People Power. I have not read all the small print. I am delighted the
:04:21. > :04:29.Government has said it was some of the Forest was that that is good
:04:29. > :04:37.and I welcome it was was that a mistake? -- the forest. 95% of
:04:37. > :04:43.forests belong to private landowners. They belong to the
:04:43. > :04:48.people. We agree with that. That is it from the West this week. The