:01:26. > :01:28.Here in the West, counting the cost Here in the West, counting the cost
:01:28. > :01:30.Here in the West, counting the cost of cleaning up the deadly dust
:01:30. > :01:31.of cleaning up the deadly dust of cleaning up the deadly dust
:01:31. > :01:31.caused by asbestos. Should the caused by asbestos. Should the
:01:31. > :01:41.caused by asbestos. Should the government stepping in and help
:01:41. > :01:41.
:01:41. > :38:16.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2194 seconds
:38:16. > :38:18.government stepping in and help part of the programme that is just
:38:18. > :38:20.part of the programme that is just part of the programme that is just
:38:20. > :38:22.part of the programme that is just for us in the West. Today our Sunday
:38:22. > :38:24.for us in the West. Today our Sunday Politics investigation reveals how
:38:24. > :38:25.Politics investigation reveals how Politics investigation reveals how
:38:25. > :38:26.local schools are struggling to local schools are struggling to
:38:26. > :38:28.local schools are struggling to clean up asbestos in their
:38:28. > :38:29.clean up asbestos in their buildings. Campaigners want the
:38:29. > :38:30.buildings. Campaigners want the buildings. Campaigners want the
:38:30. > :38:33.government to step in and protect government to step in and protect
:38:33. > :38:34.government to step in and protect teachers and pupils in schools. My
:38:34. > :38:35.teachers and pupils in schools. My teachers and pupils in schools. My
:38:35. > :38:37.guests this week are the guests this week are the
:38:37. > :38:39.guests this week are the Conservative MP from Swindon Robert
:38:39. > :38:40.Conservative MP from Swindon Robert Conservative MP from Swindon Robert
:38:40. > :38:42.Buckland and the Labour chairperson Buckland and the Labour chairperson
:38:42. > :38:43.Buckland and the Labour chairperson in the South West Clare Moody.
:38:43. > :38:44.in the South West Clare Moody. in the South West Clare Moody.
:38:44. > :38:45.Welcome to you. First let's talk Welcome to you. First let's talk
:38:45. > :38:48.Welcome to you. First let's talk about the matter of the Eastleigh
:38:48. > :38:49.about the matter of the Eastleigh about the matter of the Eastleigh
:38:49. > :38:51.by-election. A seat not 1 million by-election. A seat not 1 million
:38:51. > :38:52.by-election. A seat not 1 million mile away from yours. A blue-collar
:38:52. > :38:53.mile away from yours. A blue-collar mile away from yours. A blue-collar
:38:53. > :38:55.mile away from yours. A blue-collar seat. If that result came through to
:38:55. > :38:56.seat. If that result came through to seat. If that result came through to
:38:56. > :38:58.seat. If that result came through to you in Swindon, you would be toast,
:38:58. > :38:59.you in Swindon, you would be toast, you in Swindon, you would be toast,
:38:59. > :39:01.wouldn't you? The parallels stop wouldn't you? The parallels stop
:39:01. > :39:02.wouldn't you? The parallels stop there because the Liberals won the
:39:02. > :39:02.there because the Liberals won the there because the Liberals won the
:39:02. > :39:04.seat and have organised themselves seat and have organised themselves
:39:04. > :39:06.seat and have organised themselves seat and have organised themselves
:39:06. > :39:07.well in that part of the world for well in that part of the world for
:39:07. > :39:08.well in that part of the world for well in that part of the world for
:39:08. > :39:09.20 years and have an advantage in 20 years and have an advantage in
:39:09. > :39:10.20 years and have an advantage in terms of where they were
:39:10. > :39:12.terms of where they were terms of where they were
:39:12. > :39:13.campaigning. I think the interesting campaigning. I think the interesting
:39:13. > :39:15.campaigning. I think the interesting result is where the protest vote
:39:15. > :39:16.result is where the protest vote result is where the protest vote
:39:16. > :39:18.went and we have two acknowledged went and we have two acknowledged
:39:18. > :39:19.went and we have two acknowledged there was a significant protest in
:39:19. > :39:20.there was a significant protest in there was a significant protest in
:39:20. > :39:23.the form of UKIP and labour the form of UKIP and labour
:39:23. > :39:24.the form of UKIP and labour performed poorly. We have to listen
:39:24. > :39:25.performed poorly. We have to listen performed poorly. We have to listen
:39:25. > :39:26.why people are protesting and why people are protesting and
:39:26. > :39:28.why people are protesting and address the issues that concern
:39:28. > :39:29.address the issues that concern address the issues that concern
:39:29. > :39:31.them, or whether it be immigration them, or whether it be immigration
:39:31. > :39:32.them, or whether it be immigration them, or whether it be immigration
:39:32. > :39:34.them, or whether it be immigration or cost of living. You have to do a
:39:34. > :39:35.or cost of living. You have to do a or cost of living. You have to do a
:39:35. > :39:37.or cost of living. You have to do a deal with UKIP, don't you? No, I
:39:37. > :39:37.deal with UKIP, don't you? No, I deal with UKIP, don't you? No, I
:39:37. > :39:38.deal with UKIP, don't you? No, I don't think it's a question of doing
:39:38. > :39:39.don't think it's a question of doing don't think it's a question of doing
:39:39. > :39:41.don't think it's a question of doing deals. I don't think they want to do
:39:41. > :39:42.deals. I don't think they want to do deals. I don't think they want to do
:39:42. > :39:44.deals. I don't think they want to do deals. I think it's a question of
:39:44. > :39:44.deals. I think it's a question of deals. I think it's a question of
:39:45. > :39:46.looking and listening to the voters looking and listening to the voters
:39:46. > :39:47.looking and listening to the voters themselves and the reasons why they
:39:47. > :39:50.themselves and the reasons why they themselves and the reasons why they
:39:50. > :39:51.protested and then addressing the protested and then addressing the
:39:51. > :39:52.protested and then addressing the concerns. Clare, your take on why
:39:52. > :39:56.concerns. Clare, your take on why concerns. Clare, your take on why
:39:56. > :39:58.concerns. Clare, your take on why Labour did not do better? It was a
:39:58. > :39:59.Labour did not do better? It was a Labour did not do better? It was a
:39:59. > :40:00.short campaign and labour were never short campaign and labour were never
:40:00. > :40:01.short campaign and labour were never short campaign and labour were never
:40:01. > :40:03.the story. We were never part of the the story. We were never part of the
:40:03. > :40:06.the story. We were never part of the narrative in Eastleigh. We were a
:40:06. > :40:06.narrative in Eastleigh. We were a narrative in Eastleigh. We were a
:40:06. > :40:09.narrative in Eastleigh. We were a distant third in 2010 and we kept
:40:09. > :40:10.distant third in 2010 and we kept distant third in 2010 and we kept
:40:10. > :40:11.distant third in 2010 and we kept our vote there. What I think was
:40:11. > :40:12.our vote there. What I think was our vote there. What I think was
:40:12. > :40:14.interesting about the vote in interesting about the vote in
:40:14. > :40:15.interesting about the vote in Eastleigh was that actually, there
:40:15. > :40:19.Eastleigh was that actually, there Eastleigh was that actually, there
:40:19. > :40:20.wasn't anyone but the Conservatives wasn't anyone but the Conservatives
:40:20. > :40:21.wasn't anyone but the Conservatives in the constituency so Labour voters
:40:21. > :40:26.in the constituency so Labour voters in the constituency so Labour voters
:40:26. > :40:26.voted LibDem and some Tory voted LibDem and some Tory
:40:26. > :40:27.voted LibDem and some Tory voters... A lot of blue-collar
:40:27. > :40:31.voters... A lot of blue-collar voters... A lot of blue-collar
:40:31. > :40:31.voters... A lot of blue-collar voters voted for UKIP. You yes. The
:40:32. > :40:34.voters voted for UKIP. You yes. The voters voted for UKIP. You yes. The
:40:34. > :40:35.people that didn't vote voted for people that didn't vote voted for
:40:35. > :40:36.people that didn't vote voted for people that didn't vote voted for
:40:36. > :40:42.UKIP. That was going to be the UKIP. That was going to be the
:40:42. > :40:43.UKIP. That was going to be the narrative in this constituency.
:40:43. > :40:44.narrative in this constituency. narrative in this constituency.
:40:44. > :40:45.investigation by the Sunday Politics investigation by the Sunday Politics
:40:45. > :40:47.investigation by the Sunday Politics has found that over three quarters
:40:47. > :40:48.has found that over three quarters has found that over three quarters
:40:48. > :40:49.of state-run schools in the west of state-run schools in the west
:40:49. > :40:51.of state-run schools in the west of state-run schools in the west
:40:51. > :40:52.contain asbestos. It is safe if left contain asbestos. It is safe if left
:40:52. > :40:53.contain asbestos. It is safe if left contain asbestos. It is safe if left
:40:53. > :40:55.untouched but if you breathe in dust untouched but if you breathe in dust
:40:55. > :40:56.untouched but if you breathe in dust untouched but if you breathe in dust
:40:56. > :40:56.it can cause a deadly form of it can cause a deadly form of
:40:56. > :40:57.it can cause a deadly form of cancer. All schools are required to
:40:57. > :40:58.cancer. All schools are required to cancer. All schools are required to
:40:58. > :40:59.cancer. All schools are required to cancer. All schools are required to
:40:59. > :41:00.have a plan to deal with it but is have a plan to deal with it but is
:41:00. > :41:01.have a plan to deal with it but is have a plan to deal with it but is
:41:01. > :41:02.it time for the government to insist it time for the government to insist
:41:02. > :41:05.it time for the government to insist it time for the government to insist
:41:05. > :41:06.it is removed and pay the cost? it is removed and pay the cost?
:41:06. > :41:09.it is removed and pay the cost? it is removed and pay the cost?
:41:09. > :41:11.death of Maggie must not be in vain. death of Maggie must not be in vain.
:41:11. > :41:12.death of Maggie must not be in vain. death of Maggie must not be in vain.
:41:12. > :41:13.This is what is said by her husband This is what is said by her husband
:41:13. > :41:14.This is what is said by her husband This is what is said by her husband
:41:14. > :41:18.Alan Baker. She was a primary school Alan Baker. She was a primary school
:41:18. > :41:18.Alan Baker. She was a primary school Alan Baker. She was a primary school
:41:18. > :41:22.teacher for 34 years. In 2011, she teacher for 34 years. In 2011, she
:41:22. > :41:22.was diagnosed with asbestos-related was diagnosed with asbestos-related
:41:22. > :41:24.was diagnosed with asbestos-related cancer. Eventually, we were given
:41:24. > :41:26.cancer. Eventually, we were given cancer. Eventually, we were given
:41:26. > :41:29.the news that she had mesothelioma the news that she had mesothelioma
:41:29. > :41:32.the news that she had mesothelioma the news that she had mesothelioma
:41:32. > :41:33.and it was a tumour. She died last and it was a tumour. She died last
:41:33. > :41:33.and it was a tumour. She died last and it was a tumour. She died last
:41:33. > :41:34.year, a victim of breathing in the year, a victim of breathing in the
:41:34. > :41:37.year, a victim of breathing in the deadly dust from the school
:41:37. > :41:38.deadly dust from the school deadly dust from the school
:41:38. > :41:39.deadly dust from the school cupboard. She spent a lot of time in
:41:39. > :41:42.cupboard. She spent a lot of time in cupboard. She spent a lot of time in
:41:42. > :41:42.and out of their she said. and out of their she said.
:41:42. > :41:48.and out of their she said. Obviously, she was exposed to
:41:48. > :41:49.Obviously, she was exposed to asbestos dust because it's
:41:49. > :41:52.asbestos dust because it's asbestos dust because it's
:41:52. > :41:54.transpired that there was asbestos transpired that there was asbestos
:41:54. > :41:56.transpired that there was asbestos in there. For many years, asbestos
:41:56. > :41:56.in there. For many years, asbestos in there. For many years, asbestos
:41:56. > :41:58.in there. For many years, asbestos was a building material and it was
:41:58. > :41:59.was a building material and it was was a building material and it was
:41:59. > :42:00.only decades later that the dangers only decades later that the dangers
:42:00. > :42:04.only decades later that the dangers became apparent and its use was
:42:04. > :42:05.became apparent and its use was ended. A Sunday Politics
:42:05. > :42:07.ended. A Sunday Politics ended. A Sunday Politics
:42:07. > :42:08.investigation shows that in the investigation shows that in the
:42:08. > :42:09.investigation shows that in the investigation shows that in the
:42:09. > :42:12.West, 80% of our schools contain it. West, 80% of our schools contain it.
:42:12. > :42:13.West, 80% of our schools contain it. That's more than 800. It is
:42:13. > :42:14.That's more than 800. It is especially high in Wiltshire,
:42:14. > :42:17.especially high in Wiltshire, especially high in Wiltshire,
:42:17. > :42:18.Somerset and Bath and North East Somerset and Bath and North East
:42:18. > :42:19.Somerset and Bath and North East Somerset. If left undamaged it's not
:42:19. > :42:20.Somerset. If left undamaged it's not Somerset. If left undamaged it's not
:42:20. > :42:21.Somerset. If left undamaged it's not believed to be a danger but once
:42:21. > :42:23.believed to be a danger but once believed to be a danger but once
:42:23. > :42:25.disturbed, it must be dealt with. disturbed, it must be dealt with.
:42:25. > :42:26.disturbed, it must be dealt with. disturbed, it must be dealt with.
:42:26. > :42:28.Last year, a group of MPs and peers Last year, a group of MPs and peers
:42:28. > :42:28.Last year, a group of MPs and peers called for a national scheme to
:42:28. > :42:29.called for a national scheme to called for a national scheme to
:42:29. > :42:32.called for a national scheme to remove it from schools branding it a
:42:32. > :42:33.remove it from schools branding it a remove it from schools branding it a
:42:33. > :42:36.national scandal. We can't afford to national scandal. We can't afford to
:42:36. > :42:37.national scandal. We can't afford to national scandal. We can't afford to
:42:37. > :42:38.put this off any longer. It's a put this off any longer. It's a
:42:38. > :42:39.put this off any longer. It's a serious problem. If we don't deal
:42:39. > :42:40.serious problem. If we don't deal serious problem. If we don't deal
:42:41. > :42:41.serious problem. If we don't deal with it now, it will come up later
:42:41. > :42:42.with it now, it will come up later with it now, it will come up later
:42:42. > :42:43.with it now, it will come up later in the years and there will be more
:42:43. > :42:44.in the years and there will be more in the years and there will be more
:42:44. > :42:45.financial burden on the health financial burden on the health
:42:45. > :42:48.financial burden on the health service and it will affect people's
:42:48. > :42:49.service and it will affect people's service and it will affect people's
:42:49. > :42:50.service and it will affect people's lives. This used to be classed as an
:42:50. > :42:51.lives. This used to be classed as an lives. This used to be classed as an
:42:51. > :42:54.industrial disease and I've lost industrial disease and I've lost
:42:54. > :42:55.many friends through mesothelioma. many friends through mesothelioma.
:42:55. > :42:56.many friends through mesothelioma. many friends through mesothelioma.
:42:56. > :42:56.It's one of the most horrible deaths It's one of the most horrible deaths
:42:56. > :42:58.It's one of the most horrible deaths It's one of the most horrible deaths
:42:58. > :42:58.that you can imagine and I don't that you can imagine and I don't
:42:58. > :43:01.that you can imagine and I don't want to see children or teachers
:43:01. > :43:02.want to see children or teachers want to see children or teachers
:43:02. > :43:03.going through this. Schools are told going through this. Schools are told
:43:03. > :43:04.going through this. Schools are told going through this. Schools are told
:43:04. > :43:05.to have plans in place, to know to have plans in place, to know
:43:05. > :43:07.to have plans in place, to know to have plans in place, to know
:43:07. > :43:08.where it is and how to tackle it. where it is and how to tackle it.
:43:08. > :43:10.where it is and how to tackle it. The problem is getting rid of
:43:10. > :43:11.The problem is getting rid of The problem is getting rid of
:43:11. > :43:15.damaged asbestos can be costly as damaged asbestos can be costly as
:43:15. > :43:16.damaged asbestos can be costly as this headteacher explains. What we
:43:16. > :43:17.this headteacher explains. What we this headteacher explains. What we
:43:17. > :43:18.this headteacher explains. What we spend on the removal is at the
:43:18. > :43:20.spend on the removal is at the spend on the removal is at the
:43:20. > :43:23.expense of teaching staff, learning expense of teaching staff, learning
:43:23. > :43:24.expense of teaching staff, learning expense of teaching staff, learning
:43:24. > :43:26.resources and so on. Is the �100,000 resources and so on. Is the �100,000
:43:26. > :43:27.resources and so on. Is the �100,000 figure, what does that equate to?
:43:27. > :43:29.figure, what does that equate to? figure, what does that equate to?
:43:29. > :43:30.figure, what does that equate to? That is roughly two and a half
:43:30. > :43:34.That is roughly two and a half That is roughly two and a half
:43:34. > :43:35.members of the teaching staff. members of the teaching staff.
:43:35. > :43:36.members of the teaching staff. asked the School's Minister and West
:43:36. > :43:37.asked the School's Minister and West asked the School's Minister and West
:43:37. > :43:38.asked the School's Minister and West Country MP, David Laws, if he would
:43:38. > :43:39.Country MP, David Laws, if he would Country MP, David Laws, if he would
:43:39. > :43:41.come on and explain the government come on and explain the government
:43:41. > :43:42.come on and explain the government 's policy. He declined to be
:43:42. > :43:43.'s policy. He declined to be 's policy. He declined to be
:43:43. > :43:44.interviewed but in a statement his interviewed but in a statement his
:43:44. > :43:45.interviewed but in a statement his interviewed but in a statement his
:43:45. > :43:47.office told us, we are clear that office told us, we are clear that
:43:47. > :43:48.office told us, we are clear that office told us, we are clear that
:43:48. > :43:50.the health of pupils and staff is the health of pupils and staff is
:43:50. > :43:51.the health of pupils and staff is paramount. We are working with the
:43:51. > :43:51.paramount. We are working with the paramount. We are working with the
:43:52. > :43:53.Health and Safety Executive to make Health and Safety Executive to make
:43:53. > :43:57.Health and Safety Executive to make sure asbestos is tackled properly.
:43:57. > :43:59.sure asbestos is tackled properly. sure asbestos is tackled properly.
:43:59. > :44:00.Before Maggie's death, she won Before Maggie's death, she won
:44:00. > :44:01.compensation from her former compensation from her former
:44:01. > :44:02.compensation from her former employer. Alan simply hopes her
:44:02. > :44:04.employer. Alan simply hopes her employer. Alan simply hopes her
:44:04. > :44:08.employer. Alan simply hopes her death warrant has been in vain.
:44:08. > :44:09.death warrant has been in vain. death warrant has been in vain.
:44:09. > :44:10.unfortunate that she was unlucky unfortunate that she was unlucky
:44:10. > :44:12.unfortunate that she was unlucky enough to be in that particular
:44:12. > :44:13.enough to be in that particular enough to be in that particular
:44:13. > :44:15.enough to be in that particular place, in that particular job for so
:44:15. > :44:16.place, in that particular job for so place, in that particular job for so
:44:16. > :44:18.long. If those lessons are learned long. If those lessons are learned
:44:18. > :44:19.long. If those lessons are learned and people do something about it
:44:19. > :44:20.and people do something about it and people do something about it
:44:20. > :44:23.and people do something about it then Maggie would be happy and I
:44:23. > :44:24.then Maggie would be happy and I would certainly be happy.
:44:24. > :44:25.would certainly be happy. Public-health experts say teachers
:44:25. > :44:28.Public-health experts say teachers Public-health experts say teachers
:44:28. > :44:29.Public-health experts say teachers aren't at a higher risk as long as
:44:29. > :44:32.aren't at a higher risk as long as aren't at a higher risk as long as
:44:32. > :44:34.asbestos is dealt with properly. The asbestos is dealt with properly. The
:44:34. > :44:35.asbestos is dealt with properly. The question is who pays and when?
:44:35. > :44:38.question is who pays and when? question is who pays and when?
:44:38. > :44:39.question is who pays and when? Joining us today is Michael Lees who
:44:39. > :44:40.Joining us today is Michael Lees who Joining us today is Michael Lees who
:44:40. > :44:42.lost his wife to mesothelioma, a lost his wife to mesothelioma, a
:44:42. > :44:43.lost his wife to mesothelioma, a rare form of cancer caused by
:44:43. > :44:44.rare form of cancer caused by rare form of cancer caused by
:44:44. > :44:45.rare form of cancer caused by exposure to asbestos. He is part of
:44:45. > :44:46.exposure to asbestos. He is part of exposure to asbestos. He is part of
:44:46. > :44:47.exposure to asbestos. He is part of a campaign group to get all asbestos
:44:47. > :44:48.a campaign group to get all asbestos a campaign group to get all asbestos
:44:48. > :44:51.removed safely from schools. Thank removed safely from schools. Thank
:44:51. > :44:52.removed safely from schools. Thank removed safely from schools. Thank
:44:52. > :44:55.you for talking to us today. Sadly, you for talking to us today. Sadly,
:44:55. > :44:56.you for talking to us today. Sadly, you for talking to us today. Sadly,
:44:56. > :44:57.you lost your wife, what happened? you lost your wife, what happened?
:44:57. > :44:58.you lost your wife, what happened? you lost your wife, what happened?
:44:58. > :45:00.did indeed. My wife was a teacher did indeed. My wife was a teacher
:45:00. > :45:02.did indeed. My wife was a teacher did indeed. My wife was a teacher
:45:02. > :45:03.and she taught for 30 years in a and she taught for 30 years in a
:45:03. > :45:05.and she taught for 30 years in a variety of schools. She was exposed
:45:05. > :45:06.variety of schools. She was exposed variety of schools. She was exposed
:45:07. > :45:08.to asbestos in those schools and to asbestos in those schools and
:45:08. > :45:11.to asbestos in those schools and very sadly, she died of
:45:11. > :45:12.very sadly, she died of very sadly, she died of
:45:12. > :45:13.mesothelioma. The Health and Safety mesothelioma. The Health and Safety
:45:13. > :45:14.mesothelioma. The Health and Safety Executive says in a statement that
:45:14. > :45:16.Executive says in a statement that Executive says in a statement that
:45:16. > :45:17.if asbestos is managed and if asbestos is managed and
:45:17. > :45:22.if asbestos is managed and if asbestos is managed and
:45:22. > :45:23.maintained, it does not pose a risk maintained, it does not pose a risk
:45:23. > :45:25.maintained, it does not pose a risk maintained, it does not pose a risk
:45:25. > :45:29.their health. We agree that if it is their health. We agree that if it is
:45:29. > :45:30.their health. We agree that if it is their health. We agree that if it is
:45:31. > :45:32.managed, that is true. In a school, managed, that is true. In a school,
:45:32. > :45:33.managed, that is true. In a school, managed, that is true. In a school,
:45:33. > :45:33.you have children where as in an you have children where as in an
:45:34. > :45:34.you have children where as in an office you don't have thousands of
:45:34. > :45:38.office you don't have thousands of office you don't have thousands of
:45:38. > :45:39.children around the place and children around the place and
:45:39. > :45:41.children around the place and although you can tell people there
:45:41. > :45:42.although you can tell people there although you can tell people there
:45:42. > :45:43.is asbestos in the office, you is asbestos in the office, you
:45:43. > :45:44.is asbestos in the office, you cannot tell the children that. If
:45:44. > :45:45.cannot tell the children that. If cannot tell the children that. If
:45:45. > :45:46.cannot tell the children that. If you do tell the children that, the
:45:46. > :45:47.you do tell the children that, the you do tell the children that, the
:45:47. > :45:48.you do tell the children that, the chances are that one or two of them
:45:48. > :45:51.chances are that one or two of them chances are that one or two of them
:45:51. > :45:53.chances are that one or two of them will knock into a wall. How much
:45:53. > :45:54.will knock into a wall. How much will knock into a wall. How much
:45:54. > :45:55.would this cleanup cost? That's a would this cleanup cost? That's a
:45:55. > :45:56.would this cleanup cost? That's a problem. Nobody knows and we have
:45:56. > :45:57.problem. Nobody knows and we have problem. Nobody knows and we have
:45:57. > :45:59.problem. Nobody knows and we have asked the government to carry out an
:45:59. > :46:01.asked the government to carry out an asked the government to carry out an
:46:01. > :46:02.asked the government to carry out an audit to find out the extent of
:46:02. > :46:03.audit to find out the extent of audit to find out the extent of
:46:03. > :46:05.asbestos in the schools and asbestos in the schools and
:46:05. > :46:07.asbestos in the schools and therefore, they can make financial
:46:07. > :46:08.therefore, they can make financial therefore, they can make financial
:46:08. > :46:10.forecasts. They can prioritise the forecasts. They can prioritise the
:46:10. > :46:11.forecasts. They can prioritise the most dangerous schools, but the
:46:11. > :46:13.most dangerous schools, but the government, although they are
:46:13. > :46:13.government, although they are government, although they are
:46:13. > :46:16.carrying out a review of the carrying out a review of the
:46:16. > :46:17.carrying out a review of the condition of school buildings, the
:46:17. > :46:19.condition of school buildings, the condition of school buildings, the
:46:19. > :46:20.condition of school buildings, the one item that has been excluded is
:46:20. > :46:21.one item that has been excluded is asbestos which is totally
:46:21. > :46:24.asbestos which is totally asbestos which is totally
:46:24. > :46:25.illogical. If you are rewiring a illogical. If you are rewiring a
:46:25. > :46:27.illogical. If you are rewiring a illogical. If you are rewiring a
:46:27. > :46:28.school, you have two get rid of the school, you have two get rid of the
:46:28. > :46:30.school, you have two get rid of the asbestos first. I cannot tell you
:46:30. > :46:32.asbestos first. I cannot tell you asbestos first. I cannot tell you
:46:32. > :46:34.asbestos first. I cannot tell you how much of a cost. Can the expense
:46:34. > :46:36.how much of a cost. Can the expense how much of a cost. Can the expense
:46:36. > :46:38.be justified against the risk which be justified against the risk which
:46:38. > :46:39.be justified against the risk which be justified against the risk which
:46:39. > :46:42.is pretty small? I dispute the fact is pretty small? I dispute the fact
:46:42. > :46:42.is pretty small? I dispute the fact is pretty small? I dispute the fact
:46:43. > :46:48.that the risk is small. Since 1980, that the risk is small. Since 1980,
:46:48. > :46:49.that the risk is small. Since 1980, people like my wife and Maggie,
:46:49. > :46:51.people like my wife and Maggie, people like my wife and Maggie,
:46:51. > :46:52.269, have died of mesothelioma. 269, have died of mesothelioma.
:46:52. > :46:53.269, have died of mesothelioma. 269, have died of mesothelioma.
:46:53. > :46:54.There were three a year dying in There were three a year dying in
:46:54. > :46:59.There were three a year dying in There were three a year dying in
:46:59. > :47:00.1980 and there are 14 a year 1980 and there are 14 a year
:47:00. > :47:02.1980 and there are 14 a year nowadays. Many have died of
:47:02. > :47:03.nowadays. Many have died of nowadays. Many have died of
:47:04. > :47:06.mesothelioma. In America, they made mesothelioma. In America, they made
:47:06. > :47:09.mesothelioma. In America, they made a calculation into asbestos and made
:47:09. > :47:11.a calculation into asbestos and made a calculation into asbestos and made
:47:11. > :47:12.an assessment that every teacher and an assessment that every teacher and
:47:12. > :47:14.an assessment that every teacher and support staff 's death of
:47:14. > :47:15.support staff 's death of mesothelioma, nine children would
:47:15. > :47:17.mesothelioma, nine children would mesothelioma, nine children would
:47:17. > :47:17.subsequently died. If you look at subsequently died. If you look at
:47:17. > :47:19.subsequently died. If you look at subsequently died. If you look at
:47:19. > :47:22.the figure in our country, it means the figure in our country, it means
:47:22. > :47:23.the figure in our country, it means the figure in our country, it means
:47:23. > :47:24.more than 2000 pupils have died of more than 2000 pupils have died of
:47:24. > :47:25.more than 2000 pupils have died of more than 2000 pupils have died of
:47:25. > :47:26.exposure in schools. That is not a exposure in schools. That is not a
:47:26. > :47:27.exposure in schools. That is not a exposure in schools. That is not a
:47:27. > :47:30.low risk. Thank you for joining us. low risk. Thank you for joining us.
:47:30. > :47:31.low risk. Thank you for joining us. low risk. Thank you for joining us.
:47:31. > :47:32.Let's open the debate to the people Let's open the debate to the people
:47:32. > :47:33.Let's open the debate to the people here. Clare, where would this come
:47:33. > :47:34.here. Clare, where would this come here. Clare, where would this come
:47:34. > :47:35.here. Clare, where would this come in your list of priorities if you
:47:35. > :47:37.in your list of priorities if you in your list of priorities if you
:47:37. > :47:39.in your list of priorities if you were in charge of public spending?
:47:39. > :47:40.were in charge of public spending? were in charge of public spending?
:47:40. > :47:41.think, as Michael said, you are think, as Michael said, you are
:47:41. > :47:43.think, as Michael said, you are talking about lives that are risk
:47:43. > :47:45.talking about lives that are risk talking about lives that are risk
:47:45. > :47:49.here will stop mesothelioma is a here will stop mesothelioma is a
:47:49. > :47:49.here will stop mesothelioma is a ghastly disease for people and a
:47:50. > :47:52.ghastly disease for people and a ghastly disease for people and a
:47:52. > :47:55.dreadful death for families to go dreadful death for families to go
:47:55. > :47:58.dreadful death for families to go through. At the time, that the
:47:58. > :47:59.through. At the time, that the through. At the time, that the
:47:59. > :48:00.government took over, there was the government took over, there was the
:48:00. > :48:02.building schools for future building schools for future
:48:02. > :48:03.building schools for future programme which was going to
:48:03. > :48:05.programme which was going to programme which was going to
:48:05. > :48:08.refurbish schools and part of that refurbish schools and part of that
:48:08. > :48:09.refurbish schools and part of that would have been the replacement of
:48:09. > :48:11.would have been the replacement of would have been the replacement of
:48:11. > :48:12.asbestos in a large number of asbestos in a large number of
:48:12. > :48:13.asbestos in a large number of asbestos in a large number of
:48:13. > :48:14.schools that we talked about in the schools that we talked about in the
:48:15. > :48:16.schools that we talked about in the report earlier on. It's a question
:48:17. > :48:18.report earlier on. It's a question report earlier on. It's a question
:48:18. > :48:19.of priorities. Robert, in your of priorities. Robert, in your
:48:19. > :48:19.of priorities. Robert, in your constituency, this disease is well
:48:19. > :48:22.constituency, this disease is well constituency, this disease is well
:48:22. > :48:26.known because of the Swindon railway known because of the Swindon railway
:48:26. > :48:26.known because of the Swindon railway known because of the Swindon railway
:48:26. > :48:29.works. What's your take on this? works. What's your take on this?
:48:29. > :48:30.works. What's your take on this? works. What's your take on this?
:48:30. > :48:31.you say, there is a personal feeling you say, there is a personal feeling
:48:31. > :48:33.you say, there is a personal feeling in Swindon about mesothelioma and
:48:33. > :48:34.in Swindon about mesothelioma and in Swindon about mesothelioma and
:48:34. > :48:35.the effects on it. In Swindon the effects on it. In Swindon
:48:35. > :48:37.the effects on it. In Swindon the effects on it. In Swindon
:48:37. > :48:38.schools, there has been a lot of schools, there has been a lot of
:48:38. > :48:39.schools, there has been a lot of schools, there has been a lot of
:48:39. > :48:41.good work done to remove it from good work done to remove it from
:48:41. > :48:42.good work done to remove it from older schools. Today I was talking
:48:42. > :48:43.older schools. Today I was talking older schools. Today I was talking
:48:43. > :48:43.older schools. Today I was talking to a senior officer from my local
:48:43. > :48:45.to a senior officer from my local to a senior officer from my local
:48:45. > :48:45.to a senior officer from my local authority and I've asked him to look
:48:45. > :48:46.authority and I've asked him to look authority and I've asked him to look
:48:46. > :48:48.authority and I've asked him to look again at the nature of the problem
:48:48. > :48:49.again at the nature of the problem again at the nature of the problem
:48:49. > :48:50.again at the nature of the problem and if it still exists in Swindon.
:48:50. > :48:53.and if it still exists in Swindon. and if it still exists in Swindon.
:48:53. > :48:53.As everyone agrees, if it is As everyone agrees, if it is
:48:53. > :48:56.As everyone agrees, if it is properly managed, then schools can
:48:56. > :48:57.properly managed, then schools can properly managed, then schools can
:48:57. > :48:58.properly managed, then schools can remain safe places to work in. Mr
:48:58. > :49:00.remain safe places to work in. Mr remain safe places to work in. Mr
:49:00. > :49:01.remain safe places to work in. Mr Lees did say that if it was properly
:49:01. > :49:02.Lees did say that if it was properly Lees did say that if it was properly
:49:02. > :49:03.managed then the risk was minimised managed then the risk was minimised
:49:03. > :49:04.managed then the risk was minimised managed then the risk was minimised
:49:04. > :49:05.but there is still a risk and I but there is still a risk and I
:49:05. > :49:06.but there is still a risk and I but there is still a risk and I
:49:06. > :49:08.think all of us would agree that think all of us would agree that
:49:08. > :49:09.think all of us would agree that think all of us would agree that
:49:09. > :49:11.removal of that risk has to be a removal of that risk has to be a
:49:11. > :49:11.removal of that risk has to be a removal of that risk has to be a
:49:11. > :49:15.priority. I think it's right to say priority. I think it's right to say
:49:15. > :49:16.priority. I think it's right to say that with new capital funding
:49:16. > :49:18.that with new capital funding programmes and other resources,
:49:18. > :49:20.programmes and other resources, programmes and other resources,
:49:20. > :49:21.there are funds available that local there are funds available that local
:49:21. > :49:22.there are funds available that local authorities and academies can apply
:49:22. > :49:23.authorities and academies can apply authorities and academies can apply
:49:23. > :49:24.authorities and academies can apply authorities and academies can apply
:49:24. > :49:26.for, and I will do my part to make for, and I will do my part to make
:49:26. > :49:28.for, and I will do my part to make for, and I will do my part to make
:49:28. > :49:29.sure asbestos becomes a thing of the sure asbestos becomes a thing of the
:49:29. > :49:29.sure asbestos becomes a thing of the sure asbestos becomes a thing of the
:49:29. > :49:31.past. You are both agreeing that the past. You are both agreeing that the
:49:31. > :49:31.past. You are both agreeing that the government should spend money on
:49:31. > :49:35.government should spend money on government should spend money on
:49:35. > :49:36.this even a bit costs teachers? this even a bit costs teachers?
:49:36. > :49:45.this even a bit costs teachers? Where there is a clear risk,
:49:45. > :49:45.Where there is a clear risk, Where there is a clear risk,
:49:45. > :49:46.absolutely. The problem is that absolutely. The problem is that
:49:46. > :49:47.absolutely. The problem is that schools will need refurbishment at
:49:47. > :49:49.schools will need refurbishment at schools will need refurbishment at
:49:49. > :49:51.schools will need refurbishment at this point so if they are going in
:49:51. > :49:52.this point so if they are going in this point so if they are going in
:49:52. > :49:53.this point so if they are going in to rewire a school, for example, and
:49:53. > :49:54.to rewire a school, for example, and to rewire a school, for example, and
:49:54. > :49:55.they discovered there is asbestos, they discovered there is asbestos,
:49:55. > :49:56.they discovered there is asbestos, they discovered there is asbestos,
:49:56. > :49:57.they have to deal with it then they have to deal with it then
:49:57. > :49:59.they have to deal with it then rather than having a full
:49:59. > :50:02.rather than having a full rather than having a full
:50:02. > :50:03.assessment. One corner of the West assessment. One corner of the West
:50:03. > :50:06.assessment. One corner of the West Country is getting Britain's biggest
:50:06. > :50:07.Country is getting Britain's biggest Country is getting Britain's biggest
:50:07. > :50:07.fall in council tax. Several fall in council tax. Several
:50:07. > :50:11.fall in council tax. Several authorities are pushing up charges.
:50:11. > :50:12.authorities are pushing up charges. authorities are pushing up charges.
:50:12. > :50:20.Ministers handed out bouquets to the Ministers handed out bouquets to the
:50:20. > :50:22.Ministers handed out bouquets to the Cotswolds for their cuts. The bills
:50:22. > :50:23.Cotswolds for their cuts. The bills Cotswolds for their cuts. The bills
:50:23. > :50:24.will soon be printed. More will soon be printed. More
:50:24. > :50:25.will soon be printed. More authorities than ever have defied
:50:25. > :50:27.authorities than ever have defied authorities than ever have defied
:50:27. > :50:28.this government is pushed for a this government is pushed for a
:50:28. > :50:31.this government is pushed for a freeze. Few want praise for cutting
:50:31. > :50:32.freeze. Few want praise for cutting freeze. Few want praise for cutting
:50:32. > :50:33.freeze. Few want praise for cutting charges. We are clear that we want
:50:33. > :50:36.charges. We are clear that we want charges. We are clear that we want
:50:36. > :50:37.local councils to think about local councils to think about
:50:37. > :50:39.hard-working taxpayers and either hard-working taxpayers and either
:50:39. > :50:42.hard-working taxpayers and either hard-working taxpayers and either
:50:42. > :50:42.freeze or reduce tax. It can be freeze or reduce tax. It can be
:50:43. > :50:45.freeze or reduce tax. It can be done. Cotswold make savings by
:50:45. > :50:45.done. Cotswold make savings by done. Cotswold make savings by
:50:45. > :50:47.sharing staff and services with sharing staff and services with
:50:47. > :50:48.neighbouring councils. Ministers neighbouring councils. Ministers
:50:48. > :50:49.neighbouring councils. Ministers neighbouring councils. Ministers
:50:49. > :50:50.want this done by others such as want this done by others such as
:50:50. > :50:52.want this done by others such as West Somerset which is putting up
:50:52. > :50:55.West Somerset which is putting up West Somerset which is putting up
:50:55. > :50:55.West Somerset which is putting up its yearly charge by �5. So too is
:50:55. > :50:58.its yearly charge by �5. So too is neighbouring Sedgemoor District
:50:58. > :50:59.neighbouring Sedgemoor District neighbouring Sedgemoor District
:50:59. > :51:00.Council. Also raising tax are North Council. Also raising tax are North
:51:00. > :51:00.Council. Also raising tax are North Council. Also raising tax are North
:51:01. > :51:04.Somerset by one and a half %, and Somerset by one and a half %, and
:51:04. > :51:06.Somerset by one and a half %, and Somerset by one and a half %, and
:51:06. > :51:06.Bristol by 2%. We are a lean Bristol by 2%. We are a lean
:51:06. > :51:07.Bristol by 2%. We are a lean Bristol by 2%. We are a lean
:51:07. > :51:08.council. Life is not easy but what council. Life is not easy but what
:51:08. > :51:10.council. Life is not easy but what council. Life is not easy but what
:51:10. > :51:11.council. Life is not easy but what we have tried to do is make sure we
:51:11. > :51:13.we have tried to do is make sure we we have tried to do is make sure we
:51:13. > :51:15.have is cut any services. Others have is cut any services. Others
:51:15. > :51:15.have is cut any services. Others have tried to show ministers they
:51:15. > :51:18.have tried to show ministers they are efficient. North Somerset's
:51:18. > :51:19.are efficient. North Somerset's Conservative leader. The Secretary
:51:19. > :51:20.Conservative leader. The Secretary Conservative leader. The Secretary
:51:20. > :51:21.of State for local government to of State for local government to
:51:21. > :51:22.of State for local government to of State for local government to
:51:22. > :51:23.come and see for himself. He told come and see for himself. He told
:51:23. > :51:25.come and see for himself. He told Eric Pickles that they lose out
:51:25. > :51:26.Eric Pickles that they lose out Eric Pickles that they lose out
:51:26. > :51:28.Eric Pickles that they lose out because their council tax is low the
:51:28. > :51:30.because their council tax is low the because their council tax is low the
:51:30. > :51:33.most. It's frustrating. I have many most. It's frustrating. I have many
:51:33. > :51:33.meetings with ministers and meetings with ministers and
:51:33. > :51:36.meetings with ministers and unfortunately, we are all treated
:51:36. > :51:38.unfortunately, we are all treated unfortunately, we are all treated
:51:38. > :51:38.exactly the same. Those successful exactly the same. Those successful
:51:38. > :51:40.exactly the same. Those successful councils that have done what is
:51:40. > :51:43.councils that have done what is councils that have done what is
:51:43. > :51:44.expected and reduced costs year expected and reduced costs year
:51:44. > :51:47.expected and reduced costs year expected and reduced costs year
:51:47. > :51:48.after year then seem to get no after year then seem to get no
:51:48. > :51:49.after year then seem to get no after year then seem to get no
:51:49. > :51:51.recognition when an order is put out recognition when an order is put out
:51:51. > :51:51.recognition when an order is put out recognition when an order is put out
:51:51. > :51:53.for all councils to do the same and for all councils to do the same and
:51:53. > :51:54.for all councils to do the same and reduce things further. There is one
:51:54. > :51:55.reduce things further. There is one reduce things further. There is one
:51:55. > :51:56.thing on which central and local thing on which central and local
:51:56. > :51:59.thing on which central and local government agree, the years to come
:51:59. > :52:00.government agree, the years to come government agree, the years to come
:52:01. > :52:02.will be tougher. Here is the will be tougher. Here is the
:52:02. > :52:03.will be tougher. Here is the outgoing leader of Swindon borough
:52:03. > :52:05.outgoing leader of Swindon borough outgoing leader of Swindon borough
:52:05. > :52:08.outgoing leader of Swindon borough council, man cap. Rod Bluh. Why are
:52:08. > :52:09.council, man cap. Rod Bluh. Why are council, man cap. Rod Bluh. Why are
:52:09. > :52:10.council, man cap. Rod Bluh. Why are you leaving us? There is always a
:52:10. > :52:11.you leaving us? There is always a you leaving us? There is always a
:52:11. > :52:12.you leaving us? There is always a time to make the move. I have been
:52:12. > :52:13.time to make the move. I have been time to make the move. I have been
:52:13. > :52:16.leader for seven years and was leader for seven years and was
:52:16. > :52:17.leader for seven years and was deputy leader before that. I'm not
:52:17. > :52:18.deputy leader before that. I'm not deputy leader before that. I'm not
:52:18. > :52:19.getting any younger and need to getting any younger and need to
:52:19. > :52:23.getting any younger and need to think about the future. An
:52:23. > :52:24.think about the future. An think about the future. An
:52:24. > :52:26.opportunity came along. Let's talk opportunity came along. Let's talk
:52:26. > :52:30.opportunity came along. Let's talk about the council tax. You have
:52:30. > :52:30.about the council tax. You have about the council tax. You have
:52:31. > :52:31.about the council tax. You have frozen yours? We have. We had the
:52:31. > :52:32.frozen yours? We have. We had the frozen yours? We have. We had the
:52:32. > :52:34.frozen yours? We have. We had the frozen yours? We have. We had the
:52:34. > :52:35.freedom to put it up but it was a freedom to put it up but it was a
:52:35. > :52:35.freedom to put it up but it was a balanced judgement call and I think
:52:36. > :52:36.balanced judgement call and I think balanced judgement call and I think
:52:36. > :52:37.balanced judgement call and I think it would've been a good idea to put
:52:38. > :52:40.it would've been a good idea to put it would've been a good idea to put
:52:40. > :52:41.it would've been a good idea to put the council tax up but, you know,
:52:41. > :52:42.the council tax up but, you know, the council tax up but, you know,
:52:42. > :52:46.it's about balancing that between it's about balancing that between
:52:46. > :52:49.it's about balancing that between the effects on residents. I would
:52:49. > :52:51.the effects on residents. I would the effects on residents. I would
:52:51. > :52:52.echo virtually every word that Nigel echo virtually every word that Nigel
:52:52. > :52:53.echo virtually every word that Nigel echo virtually every word that Nigel
:52:53. > :52:54.Jess said. All councils are not in a Jess said. All councils are not in a
:52:54. > :52:55.Jess said. All councils are not in a similar position and it's been clear
:52:55. > :52:57.similar position and it's been clear similar position and it's been clear
:52:57. > :52:58.since the beginning that some are since the beginning that some are
:52:58. > :52:59.since the beginning that some are leaner than others. We've done
:52:59. > :53:04.leaner than others. We've done leaner than others. We've done
:53:04. > :53:05.everything we needed to do. Locally everything we needed to do. Locally
:53:05. > :53:05.everything we needed to do. Locally elected and locally in countable
:53:05. > :53:06.elected and locally in countable elected and locally in countable
:53:06. > :53:07.elected and locally in countable budge or hands are tied by what Eric
:53:07. > :53:08.budge or hands are tied by what Eric budge or hands are tied by what Eric
:53:08. > :53:12.Pickles and central government says Pickles and central government says
:53:12. > :53:13.Pickles and central government says Pickles and central government says
:53:13. > :53:13.about what you can charge people. about what you can charge people.
:53:13. > :53:14.about what you can charge people. believe in localism and believe that
:53:14. > :53:15.believe in localism and believe that believe in localism and believe that
:53:15. > :53:17.believe in localism and believe that it should be up to the local
:53:17. > :53:19.it should be up to the local it should be up to the local
:53:19. > :53:21.government. If you want a put government. If you want a put
:53:21. > :53:22.government. If you want a put government. If you want a put
:53:22. > :53:23.council tax up by more than 2% council tax up by more than 2%
:53:23. > :53:24.council tax up by more than 2% before you have to have a
:53:24. > :53:25.before you have to have a before you have to have a
:53:25. > :53:27.before you have to have a referendum, should you be free to do
:53:27. > :53:28.referendum, should you be free to do referendum, should you be free to do
:53:28. > :53:28.referendum, should you be free to do so? I think we should. Whether we
:53:28. > :53:30.so? I think we should. Whether we so? I think we should. Whether we
:53:30. > :53:31.so? I think we should. Whether we want to go to the expense of a
:53:31. > :53:32.want to go to the expense of a want to go to the expense of a
:53:32. > :53:33.referendum is a different issue. I referendum is a different issue. I
:53:33. > :53:33.referendum is a different issue. I referendum is a different issue. I
:53:33. > :53:34.referendum is a different issue. I think the cap is too low and I think
:53:34. > :53:35.think the cap is too low and I think think the cap is too low and I think
:53:35. > :53:36.think the cap is too low and I think it should be up to councillors and
:53:36. > :53:37.it should be up to councillors and it should be up to councillors and
:53:37. > :53:39.their residents about what is right their residents about what is right
:53:39. > :53:40.their residents about what is right their residents about what is right
:53:40. > :53:41.for their local place. We are not in for their local place. We are not in
:53:41. > :53:42.for their local place. We are not in for their local place. We are not in
:53:42. > :53:43.an equal position and it's not just an equal position and it's not just
:53:43. > :53:43.an equal position and it's not just an equal position and it's not just
:53:43. > :53:46.the austerity cuts we have to deal the austerity cuts we have to deal
:53:46. > :53:47.the austerity cuts we have to deal the austerity cuts we have to deal
:53:47. > :53:49.with. We have to deal with massive with. We have to deal with massive
:53:49. > :53:50.with. We have to deal with massive rise in demand. Would you like
:53:50. > :53:52.rise in demand. Would you like rise in demand. Would you like
:53:52. > :53:53.central government off your back? central government off your back?
:53:53. > :53:54.central government off your back? believe in localism and less
:53:54. > :53:56.believe in localism and less interference from government would
:53:56. > :53:59.interference from government would interference from government would
:53:59. > :54:00.interference from government would be a better thing. Why does central
:54:00. > :54:03.be a better thing. Why does central government boss local authorities
:54:03. > :54:04.government boss local authorities government boss local authorities
:54:04. > :54:05.around? I think we all shared around? I think we all shared
:54:05. > :54:07.around? I think we all shared concern about the cost of living.
:54:07. > :54:09.concern about the cost of living. concern about the cost of living.
:54:09. > :54:10.concern about the cost of living. Times are tough, it incomes are not
:54:10. > :54:11.Times are tough, it incomes are not Times are tough, it incomes are not
:54:11. > :54:13.Times are tough, it incomes are not going up but prices are. Costs are
:54:13. > :54:14.going up but prices are. Costs are going up but prices are. Costs are
:54:14. > :54:16.going up but prices are. Costs are going up for people. One of the big
:54:16. > :54:16.going up for people. One of the big going up for people. One of the big
:54:16. > :54:17.going up for people. One of the big costs for people is council tax and
:54:17. > :54:18.costs for people is council tax and costs for people is council tax and
:54:18. > :54:19.costs for people is council tax and costs for people is council tax and
:54:19. > :54:20.I want to pay tribute to Rod and his I want to pay tribute to Rod and his
:54:20. > :54:21.I want to pay tribute to Rod and his team because they have frozen
:54:21. > :54:22.team because they have frozen team because they have frozen
:54:22. > :54:23.team because they have frozen council tax for the last couple of
:54:23. > :54:24.council tax for the last couple of council tax for the last couple of
:54:24. > :54:26.years and before that delivered low years and before that delivered low
:54:26. > :54:28.years and before that delivered low rises. A few years before that,
:54:28. > :54:29.rises. A few years before that, rises. A few years before that,
:54:29. > :54:30.people in Swindon were facing rises people in Swindon were facing rises
:54:30. > :54:32.people in Swindon were facing rises people in Swindon were facing rises
:54:32. > :54:35.people in Swindon were facing rises of 15 or 20% in one year. That was
:54:35. > :54:36.of 15 or 20% in one year. That was of 15 or 20% in one year. That was
:54:36. > :54:39.unacceptable and its huge burden on unacceptable and its huge burden on
:54:39. > :54:40.unacceptable and its huge burden on families. Ibuprofen that, wide can
:54:41. > :54:41.families. Ibuprofen that, wide can families. Ibuprofen that, wide can
:54:41. > :54:42.families. Ibuprofen that, wide can that not be allowed? I would say
:54:42. > :54:44.that not be allowed? I would say that not be allowed? I would say
:54:44. > :54:45.that the principle of having a that the principle of having a
:54:45. > :54:47.that the principle of having a referendum would give a direct say
:54:47. > :54:49.referendum would give a direct say referendum would give a direct say
:54:49. > :54:50.referendum would give a direct say for the public on council tax rises.
:54:50. > :54:51.for the public on council tax rises. for the public on council tax rises.
:54:51. > :54:54.People vote in elections for a People vote in elections for a
:54:54. > :54:55.People vote in elections for a People vote in elections for a
:54:55. > :54:58.variety of reasons... I know you are variety of reasons... I know you are
:54:59. > :55:00.variety of reasons... I know you are variety of reasons... I know you are
:55:00. > :55:00.mates and all that. We have worked mates and all that. We have worked
:55:00. > :55:02.mates and all that. We have worked very closely and I believe we
:55:02. > :55:03.very closely and I believe we very closely and I believe we
:55:03. > :55:04.very closely and I believe we localism but at the same time, it
:55:04. > :55:05.localism but at the same time, it localism but at the same time, it
:55:05. > :55:05.would be irresponsible for the would be irresponsible for the
:55:05. > :55:08.would be irresponsible for the government to ignore the reality of
:55:08. > :55:09.government to ignore the reality of government to ignore the reality of
:55:09. > :55:11.life. Claire, due think the council life. Claire, due think the council
:55:11. > :55:13.life. Claire, due think the council should be allowed to charge what
:55:13. > :55:14.should be allowed to charge what should be allowed to charge what
:55:14. > :55:15.they want without asking Eric they want without asking Eric
:55:15. > :55:18.they want without asking Eric they want without asking Eric
:55:18. > :55:19.Pickles? Yes. I think I would echo a Pickles? Yes. I think I would echo a
:55:19. > :55:20.Pickles? Yes. I think I would echo a Pickles? Yes. I think I would echo a
:55:20. > :55:26.lot of Rod's points. There is a lot of Rod's points. There is a
:55:26. > :55:27.referendum on local governments. referendum on local governments.
:55:27. > :55:29.referendum on local governments. referendum on local governments.
:55:29. > :55:31.Also, what you are looking at here, Also, what you are looking at here,
:55:31. > :55:32.Also, what you are looking at here, is local councils being caught
:55:32. > :55:33.is local councils being caught is local councils being caught
:55:33. > :55:35.is local councils being caught between the devil and the deep blue
:55:35. > :55:37.between the devil and the deep blue between the devil and the deep blue
:55:37. > :55:38.sea. They are having cuts handed sea. They are having cuts handed
:55:38. > :55:39.sea. They are having cuts handed sea. They are having cuts handed
:55:39. > :55:40.down from up high with Eric Pickles, down from up high with Eric Pickles,
:55:40. > :55:41.down from up high with Eric Pickles, whilst having increased strain on
:55:41. > :55:43.whilst having increased strain on whilst having increased strain on
:55:43. > :55:46.the services they are trying to the services they are trying to
:55:46. > :55:47.the services they are trying to offer. Cuts, raising council taxes,
:55:47. > :55:48.offer. Cuts, raising council taxes, offer. Cuts, raising council taxes,
:55:48. > :55:50.offer. Cuts, raising council taxes, but they are in a lock through
:55:50. > :55:51.but they are in a lock through but they are in a lock through
:55:51. > :55:54.central government as well. We wish central government as well. We wish
:55:54. > :55:56.central government as well. We wish central government as well. We wish
:55:56. > :55:56.you well in your new career. You are you well in your new career. You are
:55:56. > :55:58.you well in your new career. You are you well in your new career. You are
:55:58. > :55:59.off to do other things. I will miss off to do other things. I will miss
:55:59. > :56:02.off to do other things. I will miss off to do other things. I will miss
:56:02. > :56:04.it. It's been a great seven years of it. It's been a great seven years of
:56:04. > :56:05.it. It's been a great seven years of experience. Thank you. The Bristol
:56:05. > :56:06.experience. Thank you. The Bristol experience. Thank you. The Bristol
:56:06. > :56:07.Conservative MP Charlotte Leslie is Conservative MP Charlotte Leslie is
:56:07. > :56:09.Conservative MP Charlotte Leslie is demanding the chief of the NHS
:56:09. > :56:10.demanding the chief of the NHS demanding the chief of the NHS
:56:10. > :56:11.resign over the scandal in mid resign over the scandal in mid
:56:11. > :56:12.resign over the scandal in mid Staffordshire. She has been backed
:56:12. > :56:13.Staffordshire. She has been backed Staffordshire. She has been backed
:56:13. > :56:15.Staffordshire. She has been backed by local GP and campaign ad Doctor
:56:15. > :56:16.by local GP and campaign ad Doctor by local GP and campaign ad Doctor
:56:16. > :56:17.Phil Hammond who helped uncover the Phil Hammond who helped uncover the
:56:17. > :56:18.Phil Hammond who helped uncover the Bristol heart scandal over ten years
:56:18. > :56:19.Bristol heart scandal over ten years Bristol heart scandal over ten years
:56:19. > :56:20.Bristol heart scandal over ten years ago. I caught up with them in
:56:20. > :56:22.ago. I caught up with them in ago. I caught up with them in
:56:22. > :56:23.Westminster are little earlier and Westminster are little earlier and
:56:23. > :56:24.Westminster are little earlier and started asking Charlotte why she
:56:24. > :56:27.started asking Charlotte why she started asking Charlotte why she
:56:27. > :56:28.thinks Sir David Nicholson should thinks Sir David Nicholson should
:56:28. > :56:30.thinks Sir David Nicholson should thinks Sir David Nicholson should
:56:30. > :56:31.go. In any other walk of life, if go. In any other walk of life, if
:56:31. > :56:32.go. In any other walk of life, if go. In any other walk of life, if
:56:32. > :56:33.you are responsible and at the head you are responsible and at the head
:56:33. > :56:34.you are responsible and at the head of an organisation that seen the
:56:34. > :56:36.of an organisation that seen the of an organisation that seen the
:56:36. > :56:37.death of patients, would you not death of patients, would you not
:56:37. > :56:40.death of patients, would you not death of patients, would you not
:56:40. > :56:41.have to go? The NHS should not any have to go? The NHS should not any
:56:41. > :56:42.different to another organisation different to another organisation
:56:42. > :56:45.different to another organisation and talks of accountability are
:56:45. > :56:46.and talks of accountability are and talks of accountability are
:56:46. > :56:48.meaningless unless action is taken. meaningless unless action is taken.
:56:48. > :56:49.meaningless unless action is taken. meaningless unless action is taken.
:56:49. > :56:51.The cap the tri- minister has warned The cap the tri- minister has warned
:56:51. > :56:53.The cap the tri- minister has warned against scapegoats. I think there is
:56:53. > :56:53.against scapegoats. I think there is against scapegoats. I think there is
:56:53. > :56:56.a difference between scapegoats and a difference between scapegoats and
:56:56. > :56:57.holding people responsible. Let's holding people responsible. Let's
:56:57. > :56:58.holding people responsible. Let's holding people responsible. Let's
:56:58. > :56:58.move on to Doctor Phil Hammond. Do move on to Doctor Phil Hammond. Do
:56:59. > :57:02.move on to Doctor Phil Hammond. Do move on to Doctor Phil Hammond. Do
:57:02. > :57:04.you think he should quit or be you think he should quit or be
:57:04. > :57:05.you think he should quit or be sacked? Yes, I came out immediately
:57:05. > :57:05.sacked? Yes, I came out immediately sacked? Yes, I came out immediately
:57:05. > :57:07.sacked? Yes, I came out immediately as Francis was speaking and wrote a
:57:07. > :57:07.as Francis was speaking and wrote a as Francis was speaking and wrote a
:57:07. > :57:08.as Francis was speaking and wrote a piece in The Times saying he should
:57:08. > :57:10.piece in The Times saying he should piece in The Times saying he should
:57:10. > :57:13.piece in The Times saying he should go. I think you must remember that
:57:13. > :57:14.go. I think you must remember that go. I think you must remember that
:57:14. > :57:15.the Bristol heart scandal was an the Bristol heart scandal was an
:57:15. > :57:19.the Bristol heart scandal was an audit over whether we have accepted
:57:19. > :57:20.audit over whether we have accepted audit over whether we have accepted
:57:20. > :57:23.the recommendations. The people at the recommendations. The people at
:57:23. > :57:24.the recommendations. The people at the centre haven't placed humanity
:57:24. > :57:25.the centre haven't placed humanity the centre haven't placed humanity
:57:25. > :57:27.the centre haven't placed humanity at the centre of health care. I
:57:27. > :57:29.at the centre of health care. I at the centre of health care. I
:57:29. > :57:29.at the centre of health care. I think he is responsible. If you look
:57:29. > :57:30.think he is responsible. If you look think he is responsible. If you look
:57:30. > :57:31.at the most important, powerful at the most important, powerful
:57:31. > :57:34.at the most important, powerful people he is the most powerful
:57:34. > :57:36.people he is the most powerful people he is the most powerful
:57:36. > :57:37.state. He is the accountable officer state. He is the accountable officer
:57:37. > :57:38.state. He is the accountable officer state. He is the accountable officer
:57:38. > :57:39.state. He is the accountable officer and he has to go. It is easy for us
:57:39. > :57:41.and he has to go. It is easy for us and he has to go. It is easy for us
:57:41. > :57:42.to blame some hapless manager to blame some hapless manager
:57:42. > :57:43.to blame some hapless manager to blame some hapless manager
:57:43. > :57:44.because we want to like doctors and because we want to like doctors and
:57:44. > :57:45.because we want to like doctors and nurses because we feel they are
:57:45. > :57:46.nurses because we feel they are nurses because we feel they are
:57:46. > :57:47.nurses because we feel they are helping us. They are the people on
:57:47. > :57:48.helping us. They are the people on helping us. They are the people on
:57:48. > :57:49.the frontline and the people who the frontline and the people who
:57:49. > :57:51.the frontline and the people who the frontline and the people who
:57:51. > :57:52.chose to do what their managers them chose to do what their managers them
:57:52. > :57:53.chose to do what their managers them chose to do what their managers them
:57:53. > :57:54.to do. This is not saying that to do. This is not saying that
:57:54. > :57:55.to do. This is not saying that doctors and nurses should not be
:57:55. > :57:58.doctors and nurses should not be doctors and nurses should not be
:57:58. > :58:00.doctors and nurses should not be held to account. Anyone who has held
:58:00. > :58:01.held to account. Anyone who has held held to account. Anyone who has held
:58:01. > :58:02.subhuman care should be held subhuman care should be held
:58:03. > :58:04.accountable. Local managers should accountable. Local managers should
:58:04. > :58:08.accountable. Local managers should be held to account. The regulators
:58:08. > :58:09.be held to account. The regulators failed. Ultimate responsibility
:58:09. > :58:10.failed. Ultimate responsibility failed. Ultimate responsibility
:58:10. > :58:11.should be taken for systemic should be taken for systemic
:58:11. > :58:12.should be taken for systemic failure. If only happened over the
:58:12. > :58:13.failure. If only happened over the failure. If only happened over the
:58:13. > :58:14.failure. If only happened over the last few months and we picked it up,
:58:14. > :58:14.last few months and we picked it up, last few months and we picked it up,
:58:14. > :58:17.last few months and we picked it up, fair enough. This went on for a
:58:17. > :58:18.fair enough. This went on for a fair enough. This went on for a
:58:18. > :58:19.decade. Therefore, I think the decade. Therefore, I think the
:58:19. > :58:19.decade. Therefore, I think the decade. Therefore, I think the
:58:19. > :58:23.person at the top of the tree, person at the top of the tree,
:58:23. > :58:24.person at the top of the tree, should stop down. Message is
:58:24. > :58:25.should stop down. Message is should stop down. Message is
:58:25. > :58:26.otherwise is that the worst scandal otherwise is that the worst scandal
:58:26. > :58:27.otherwise is that the worst scandal otherwise is that the worst scandal
:58:27. > :58:33.otherwise is that the worst scandal can go on on your watch and no one
:58:33. > :58:34.can go on on your watch and no one can go on on your watch and no one
:58:34. > :58:41.will notice. Charlotte Leslie, Phil will notice. Charlotte Leslie, Phil
:58:41. > :58:41.will notice. Charlotte Leslie, Phil will notice. Charlotte Leslie, Phil
:58:42. > :58:42.Hammond, thank you. Speaking to me a Hammond, thank you. Speaking to me a
:58:42. > :58:43.Hammond, thank you. Speaking to me a Hammond, thank you. Speaking to me a
:58:43. > :58:45.little earlier this week when I was little earlier this week when I was
:58:45. > :58:45.little earlier this week when I was little earlier this week when I was
:58:45. > :58:46.wearing a tie. It's been a busy wearing a tie. It's been a busy
:58:46. > :58:53.wearing a tie. It's been a busy political week let's look at the
:58:53. > :58:55.political week let's look at the political week let's look at the
:58:55. > :58:56.62nd round up. Taunton Deane borough 62nd round up. Taunton Deane borough
:58:56. > :58:57.62nd round up. Taunton Deane borough council has promised to keep funding
:58:57. > :58:58.council has promised to keep funding council has promised to keep funding
:58:58. > :58:59.the Brewhouse Theatre and offer a the Brewhouse Theatre and offer a
:58:59. > :59:00.the Brewhouse Theatre and offer a the Brewhouse Theatre and offer a
:59:00. > :59:01.one off grant to anyone who wants to one off grant to anyone who wants to
:59:01. > :59:02.one off grant to anyone who wants to one off grant to anyone who wants to
:59:02. > :59:03.take over the running of it. The take over the running of it. The
:59:03. > :59:03.take over the running of it. The take over the running of it. The
:59:03. > :59:06.doors were closed last week after it doors were closed last week after it
:59:06. > :59:07.went into administration. The went into administration. The
:59:07. > :59:08.went into administration. The Ministry of defence in Bristol has
:59:08. > :59:09.Ministry of defence in Bristol has Ministry of defence in Bristol has
:59:09. > :59:11.been criticised for buying billions been criticised for buying billions
:59:11. > :59:12.been criticised for buying billions been criticised for buying billions
:59:12. > :59:14.of pounds it doesn't need by MPs on of pounds it doesn't need by MPs on
:59:14. > :59:15.of pounds it doesn't need by MPs on the Public accounts committee.
:59:15. > :59:16.the Public accounts committee. the Public accounts committee.
:59:16. > :59:17.are talking about billions of pounds are talking about billions of pounds
:59:17. > :59:18.are talking about billions of pounds are talking about billions of pounds
:59:18. > :59:21.of stock that has been built up. We of stock that has been built up. We
:59:21. > :59:22.of stock that has been built up. We were stopping 15 years of supplies
:59:22. > :59:23.were stopping 15 years of supplies were stopping 15 years of supplies
:59:23. > :59:24.for Nimrod aircraft even though we for Nimrod aircraft even though we
:59:24. > :59:26.for Nimrod aircraft even though we cancelled the aircraft and we won't
:59:26. > :59:27.cancelled the aircraft and we won't cancelled the aircraft and we won't
:59:27. > :59:28.cancelled the aircraft and we won't use it any more. Children in Bath
:59:28. > :59:30.use it any more. Children in Bath use it any more. Children in Bath
:59:30. > :59:31.and North East Somerset could at and North East Somerset could at
:59:31. > :59:32.Eton school meals containing Eton school meals containing
:59:32. > :59:33.Eton school meals containing horsemeat according to the Council.
:59:33. > :59:34.horsemeat according to the Council. horsemeat according to the Council.
:59:34. > :59:35.horsemeat according to the Council. All beef mince has been taken of
:59:35. > :59:35.All beef mince has been taken of All beef mince has been taken of
:59:35. > :59:37.All beef mince has been taken of menus in the area are forced meat
:59:37. > :59:38.menus in the area are forced meat menus in the area are forced meat
:59:38. > :59:39.was found in tests. Restore city was found in tests. Restore city
:59:39. > :59:41.was found in tests. Restore city was found in tests. Restore city
:59:41. > :59:43.council would save up to �1 million council would save up to �1 million
:59:43. > :59:44.council would save up to �1 million council would save up to �1 million
:59:44. > :59:45.over the next decade by changing how over the next decade by changing how
:59:45. > :59:46.over the next decade by changing how over the next decade by changing how
:59:46. > :59:47.often it holds elections. A third of often it holds elections. A third of
:59:47. > :59:47.often it holds elections. A third of often it holds elections. A third of
:59:48. > :59:50.the council is voted in each year. the council is voted in each year.
:59:50. > :59:50.the council is voted in each year. Some councillors and the Mayor want
:59:50. > :59:56.Some councillors and the Mayor want Some councillors and the Mayor want
:59:56. > :59:57.all out elections every four years all out elections every four years
:59:57. > :59:58.all out elections every four years all out elections every four years
:59:58. > :59:59.instead. It flies past, as does the instead. It flies past, as does the
:59:59. > :00:01.instead. It flies past, as does the instead. It flies past, as does the
:00:01. > :00:02.week. Let's pick up on one of those week. Let's pick up on one of those
:00:02. > :00:04.week. Let's pick up on one of those stories, the closure of the
:00:04. > :00:05.stories, the closure of the Brewhouse Theatre. Should taxpayers
:00:05. > :00:06.Brewhouse Theatre. Should taxpayers Brewhouse Theatre. Should taxpayers
:00:06. > :00:08.Brewhouse Theatre. Should taxpayers be funding the arts? I think, yes,
:00:08. > :00:10.be funding the arts? I think, yes, be funding the arts? I think, yes,
:00:10. > :00:12.there is an element that should there is an element that should
:00:12. > :00:13.there is an element that should involve public subsidy because a lot
:00:13. > :00:14.involve public subsidy because a lot involve public subsidy because a lot
:00:14. > :00:15.of these activities are important if of these activities are important if
:00:15. > :00:16.of these activities are important if of these activities are important if
:00:16. > :00:17.we are to call ourselves a civilised we are to call ourselves a civilised
:00:17. > :00:18.we are to call ourselves a civilised we are to call ourselves a civilised
:00:18. > :00:20.country and I think an element of country and I think an element of
:00:20. > :00:21.country and I think an element of subsidy is necessary. To think they
:00:21. > :00:23.subsidy is necessary. To think they subsidy is necessary. To think they
:00:23. > :00:24.subsidy is necessary. To think they should stand and put on shows they
:00:24. > :00:25.should stand and put on shows they should stand and put on shows they
:00:25. > :00:27.should stand and put on shows they want to see? I think there needs to
:00:27. > :00:27.want to see? I think there needs to want to see? I think there needs to
:00:28. > :00:30.want to see? I think there needs to be a subsidy to make sure some of
:00:30. > :00:32.be a subsidy to make sure some of be a subsidy to make sure some of
:00:32. > :00:33.our theatres continued and be part our theatres continued and be part
:00:33. > :00:34.our theatres continued and be part our theatres continued and be part
:00:34. > :00:35.of the soul of our society. It is of the soul of our society. It is
:00:35. > :00:37.of the soul of our society. It is important to feed that cultural
:00:37. > :00:38.important to feed that cultural important to feed that cultural
:00:38. > :00:40.important to feed that cultural element of the society. I think the
:00:40. > :00:41.element of the society. I think the element of the society. I think the
:00:41. > :00:42.Brewhouse Theatre has 55 staff so Brewhouse Theatre has 55 staff so
:00:42. > :00:43.Brewhouse Theatre has 55 staff so theatres can grow quite a lot.
:00:43. > :00:45.theatres can grow quite a lot. theatres can grow quite a lot.
:00:45. > :00:46.theatres can grow quite a lot. Perhaps that is the answer, I don't
:00:46. > :00:47.Perhaps that is the answer, I don't Perhaps that is the answer, I don't
:00:47. > :00:48.Perhaps that is the answer, I don't know. I think we will leave it
:00:48. > :00:49.know. I think we will leave it know. I think we will leave it
:00:49. > :00:51.know. I think we will leave it there. That's all we have time for
:00:51. > :00:52.there. That's all we have time for there. That's all we have time for
:00:52. > :00:54.this week. Thank you to Robert this week. Thank you to Robert
:00:54. > :00:55.this week. Thank you to Robert Buckland and Claire Moody for
:00:55. > :00:56.Buckland and Claire Moody for Buckland and Claire Moody for
:00:56. > :00:57.Buckland and Claire Moody for joining us today, but don't go away
:00:57. > :00:58.joining us today, but don't go away because the Sunday Politics
:00:58. > :01:00.because the Sunday Politics because the Sunday Politics
:01:00. > :01:01.continues with Andrew in London. If continues with Andrew in London. If
:01:01. > :01:02.continues with Andrew in London. If continues with Andrew in London. If
:01:02. > :01:03.you'd like to watch our section of you'd like to watch our section of
:01:03. > :01:04.you'd like to watch our section of you'd like to watch our section of
:01:04. > :01:05.the programme again, then it will be the programme again, then it will be