:01:14. > :01:16.They gave councils the biggest shock in years gaining thousands of votes
:01:16. > :01:26.across the west country. Can the party once called "fruitcakes" make
:01:26. > :01:26.
:01:26. > :38:39.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2232 seconds
:38:39. > :38:44.the programme just for us in the West. Today we are digesting what
:38:44. > :38:47.the local election results mean after the UKIP bombshell fail on
:38:47. > :38:52.West Country -- West Country politics. They did not get that many
:38:52. > :38:57.seats, but in some areas over a quarter of voters gave them support.
:38:57. > :39:07.They were called fruitcakes, but they have had the last laugh. We
:39:07. > :39:08.
:39:08. > :39:11.will be talking to them later. First, let us introduce our guests.
:39:11. > :39:18.They are at the Conservative Jacob Rees-Mogg, the Liberal Democrat
:39:18. > :39:24.Jeremy Browne and for Labour, Sophy Gardner. First of all, how do you
:39:24. > :39:29.deal with the problem of UKIP. would like to see the Conservatives
:39:29. > :39:33.offer an electoral pact to them. If you look at the results, 48% of the
:39:33. > :39:38.electorate voted for a right-wing parties, that is more than Margaret
:39:38. > :39:41.Thatcher ever achieved. UKIP is clearly appealing beyond the base of
:39:41. > :39:47.the Conservative party, into patriotically to and is across the
:39:47. > :39:52.country and if we could pull all that together in an electoral pact,
:39:52. > :40:00.it would be very exciting. You would be prepared to adapt UKIP policies?
:40:00. > :40:05.So many of them are close to our policies anyway. What about
:40:05. > :40:11.immigration? Conservatives have been tightening that up. On leaving
:40:12. > :40:18.Europe, it is a question of does a renegotiation have the same affect?
:40:18. > :40:22.Doesn't mean really repatriates the powers we need? Are you proposing
:40:22. > :40:29.that in some seats, they should not be a Conservative candidate as a
:40:29. > :40:32.deal that in other seats to should not be a UKIP candidate? There
:40:32. > :40:36.should be an election were we support each other. I would like to
:40:36. > :40:44.see Nigel Farage replaces Nick Clegg is the Deputy Prime Minister. I
:40:44. > :40:50.think that would be a better bet for Conservatives. He wants a divorce.
:40:50. > :40:55.That is a big announcement. We are committed to this coalition for the
:40:55. > :40:59.lifetime of this Parliament. That is David Cameron's commitment as well.
:40:59. > :41:04.David Cameron one of the Conservative leadership on a pledge
:41:04. > :41:09.to modernise the Conservative party, he said we must stop banging on
:41:10. > :41:14.about Europe, we must connect with people who had previously been
:41:14. > :41:21.moderate. This is a dramatic departure from the basis on which
:41:21. > :41:25.David Cameron one of the Conservative leadership. It is a
:41:25. > :41:28.confession of weakness. The idea that the next General Election, the
:41:28. > :41:31.Conservatives should not be a genuinely national party, that
:41:31. > :41:35.people in some constituencies in the West should go and vote and there
:41:35. > :41:40.would not be a Conservative on the ballot paper and they would be
:41:40. > :41:50.invited to vote for UKIP instead, that would be a very dramatic
:41:50. > :41:56.departure. You would go that far? is what we have done before. After
:41:56. > :42:03.1885. We did it with the Liberal Unionists. British history is a very
:42:03. > :42:11.long time periods. This if you have a party that you broadly agree
:42:11. > :42:17.with... You called them fruitcakes! We called net Clegg the biggest joke
:42:17. > :42:25.in electoral politics two weeks before he was deputy prime
:42:25. > :42:32.ministers. -- neck Clegg. World would that leave you? I think they
:42:32. > :42:37.would have an interesting time trying to rein in Nigel Farage. I do
:42:38. > :42:41.not find that particularly worrying. I find it a scary one for Tories.
:42:41. > :42:51.is correct about the proportion of people voting for right-wing parties
:42:51. > :42:52.
:42:52. > :42:57.at a time when Ed Miliband is moving to the left. He is not. I do not
:42:57. > :43:01.really see that UKIP is as big a deal, it was a protest vote. We got
:43:01. > :43:07.that feeling on the doorstep. A lot of people said they would do it this
:43:07. > :43:12.time. Other people said that they were voting UKIP to make a point.
:43:12. > :43:17.When we spoke to the man pointed out how many times we had been to talk
:43:17. > :43:23.to them compared to UKIP, they changed their minds and voted
:43:23. > :43:26.Labour. After that to the big story of the week, the local elections.
:43:26. > :43:29.UKIP are cock-a-hoop after scooping up a quarter of the votes in some
:43:29. > :43:39.places. Before they get too carried away, it is worth remembering that
:43:39. > :43:40.
:43:40. > :43:45.most people did not bother voting at all so it may be too early to burn
:43:45. > :43:50.those EU style passports just yet. The faces said it all. For them
:43:50. > :43:54.British politics has entered a purple patch. A party derided as
:43:54. > :43:58.clowns and fruitcakes had upset at the electoral applecart, gaining a
:43:58. > :44:02.formidable foothold in our council chambers. The number of seats that
:44:02. > :44:08.they actually won across the West Country is fairly modest, eight, but
:44:08. > :44:15.the level of support they received is remarkable. In Dorset it reached
:44:15. > :44:19.as high as 27% and the impact that they have had is enormous, nowhere
:44:19. > :44:21.more so than here. In the early hours of Friday, firm and an the
:44:21. > :44:26.Forest. This corner of Gloucestershire normally swings
:44:26. > :44:31.between the Conservatives and Labour. Now they have seats on the
:44:31. > :44:36.county, district and town councils. There is a protest vote involved.
:44:36. > :44:43.They also feel that they wanted to support what we have been saying.
:44:43. > :44:48.They are angry with government and that has fed down to local level.
:44:48. > :44:53.sends out a message. It sends out an important message to the government,
:44:53. > :44:57.people are not happy with issues surrounding the European Union.
:44:57. > :45:03.is a worry for the local Conservative MP viewers a member of
:45:03. > :45:06.the government. It is disappointing when we lose a good counsellors. We
:45:07. > :45:16.are in government, we have to take difficult decisions to clear up the
:45:17. > :45:32.
:45:32. > :45:35.mess we inherited and voters have taken the opportunity to protest.
:45:35. > :45:37.Labour were celebrating him made five games, but not as many as they
:45:37. > :45:40.wanted. The basic numbers do not tell the full UKIP story. In world
:45:40. > :45:42.should they got just one of the seats which stayed under clear
:45:42. > :45:45.Conservative control. What worries us is many of them did not put any
:45:45. > :45:50.literature out at all. That seems like a protest vote and I do not
:45:50. > :45:59.like that. Local government services are too important to use a protest
:45:59. > :46:02.vote. On the results, all these people voting for UKIP, they are the
:46:02. > :46:10.ones who will create the difference in this country. That is why we are
:46:10. > :46:16.here. Everybody says before you ask me, there is no protest vote, of
:46:16. > :46:20.course it is. Protest was the word being bandied about in Bristol,
:46:20. > :46:26.although here others benefited. Independents made a strong showing
:46:26. > :46:32.and begin -- the Greens gained two seats. Those who did not prosper
:46:32. > :46:37.were the coalition parties. The Liberal Democrats lost nine. Simon
:46:37. > :46:41.Cook survived but several senior colleagues did not. It looks like a
:46:41. > :46:46.protest vote against the coalition. People on doorsteps said that they
:46:46. > :46:51.were not going to do that and we seem to be getting the blame and I
:46:51. > :46:55.do not understand that. In the big coalition clash in Somerset, the
:46:56. > :47:01.Liberal Democrat challenge faltered and the Tories held on, just. The
:47:01. > :47:11.majority was slashed to one. We have been through the ringer. I am
:47:11. > :47:15.
:47:15. > :47:18.pleased out where we are. I will be really pleased to take a day off
:47:18. > :47:21.before I get back to the job on Monday. Back in Gloucester, there
:47:21. > :47:25.was calm after the tumultuous events of the count. Mine is turned to the
:47:25. > :47:33.daily business of running council services. Can you work with any of
:47:33. > :47:38.the other parties? There is room for a group of political groups to come
:47:38. > :47:43.together to form a coalition. Whether that is formal or some ad
:47:43. > :47:47.hoc arrangements, that remains to be seen. Yes he did say another
:47:47. > :47:53.coalition, that word may not please their supporters, but in
:47:53. > :47:58.Gloucestershire, it could give UKIP their first taste of power. Joining
:47:58. > :48:05.the debate here is UKIP's Jim Carver who is their South West regional
:48:05. > :48:11.coordinator. You were listening in the wings when Jacob made his offer
:48:11. > :48:16.for an electoral pact with UKIP. What do you think? I do not think we
:48:16. > :48:22.would. What we saw on Thursday night was right across the south-west and
:48:22. > :48:28.right across the country. It clarified that UKIP is taking votes
:48:28. > :48:33.from all the parties. Thank you Jeremy, there are now four main
:48:33. > :48:37.political parties and I think that has been borne out by the results.
:48:37. > :48:42.Any talk of electoral pacts, it is early days, it is way above my pay
:48:42. > :48:47.grade. I do not think the membership would go with that and we have
:48:47. > :48:49.people from the Labour background who would not go along with the
:48:50. > :48:56.Conservative party and I am sure people from Conservative backgrounds
:48:56. > :49:01.would not go along with a pact with the Labour Party. That has blown
:49:01. > :49:06.your plans? No. Rome was not built in a day. It would take time to
:49:06. > :49:10.build a packed. The exact terms would have to be negotiated. What
:49:10. > :49:16.would UKIP want to come into an arrangement with us? What would we
:49:16. > :49:20.have to do in relation to the referendum? Would they require the
:49:20. > :49:28.Prime Minister to use Article 50 of the Treaty on the European Union?
:49:28. > :49:33.Would be easier if you'd joined UKIP? No. I am a dyed in the wool
:49:33. > :49:39.Conservative. I have a sympathy with their platform and their mode of
:49:39. > :49:44.campaigning. Do you think the people who voted on Thursday voted for you
:49:44. > :49:51.because they want out of Europe, which is your main campaigning idea?
:49:51. > :49:55.It is clear, that is a key platform. You think that about everybody?
:49:55. > :50:01.lot of people who did, but I know from speaking to some people, they
:50:01. > :50:07.liked what we were saying about local issues and it is fair to say
:50:07. > :50:16.some people wanted to have a go at the main parties. Where does that
:50:16. > :50:24.leave Labour? There is certain to be a referendum. Where would Labour
:50:24. > :50:29.stand? In terms of Europe? We have always said that we believe our
:50:29. > :50:35.places in Europe. We do believe that we should be renegotiating some of
:50:35. > :50:42.our positions. The UK is better of in Europe, the economy is better
:50:42. > :50:46.off. Would you support people having a choice? It is difficult to call
:50:46. > :50:51.now. We need to be concentrating on the economy. That is what people
:50:51. > :50:56.want us to talk about. It is overwhelming, it is what people were
:50:56. > :50:59.talking on the doorstep. It was the state of the economy, the effects
:50:59. > :51:05.that people are feeling from the changes to their allowances and
:51:05. > :51:14.benefits. It was also about immigration? Nigel Farage raised a
:51:14. > :51:20.point when he said about Romanians and Bulgarians coming. Is it too
:51:20. > :51:27.late to look at those policies and say, perhaps we should not have an
:51:27. > :51:32.open door policy? We can look at how we apply them. There is an agreement
:51:32. > :51:38.across the European Union. Hundreds of thousands of British people
:51:38. > :51:47.retire to Spain. More British people live in Spain than there are
:51:47. > :51:53.Spaniards living here. It is not a precise give and take. I wanted to
:51:53. > :51:56.pick up on Jacob's point. The crucial thing is, as far as I can
:51:56. > :52:00.see, there is one political party which is committed to getting to
:52:00. > :52:05.grips with the economic problems, taking responsible decisions in
:52:05. > :52:09.government about the economy, whilst still having an enlightened appeal
:52:09. > :52:14.and that is the Liberal Democrats. The Conservatives are pulling off to
:52:14. > :52:20.the right and talking about deals with UKIP. Labour are unwilling to
:52:20. > :52:25.face up to any of the economic responsibility at all. Far from the
:52:25. > :52:28.Liberal Democrats being marginalised, I think what is quite
:52:28. > :52:33.interesting is the result of the traumas suffered by the
:52:33. > :52:38.Conservatives, that we are the one force that is murdering British
:52:38. > :52:48.politics on the responsible centre ground. You were annihilated in
:52:48. > :52:49.
:52:49. > :52:56.Bristol. -- moraine British politics. We were patchy in parts of
:52:56. > :53:00.the country. We had our best performances I became a candidate.
:53:00. > :53:08.We got twice as many seats in my constituency as all the political
:53:08. > :53:15.parties added together. For all your talk, you have got eight
:53:15. > :53:18.councillors. We got 833 second places. If I can go back and the
:53:18. > :53:26.point needs to be made, what we have brought to the selection is on the
:53:26. > :53:32.issue of Europe, clarity, and what we have heard from Jacob. What we
:53:32. > :53:37.have, they have the view, let us go for Europe wholeheartedly and what
:53:37. > :53:41.we say is let us step back, have an amicable withdrawal. What is on
:53:41. > :53:48.offer from the Conservatives and Labour... We have heard what William
:53:48. > :53:53.Hague had to say, there is no shift to the right. I agree with Roy
:53:53. > :53:57.Jenkins, he was right in what is said about Europe and that is
:53:57. > :54:02.something for UKIP. He said there are now only too clear positions
:54:02. > :54:06.with regards to our membership of the European community. All in or
:54:06. > :54:09.all out. We have looked at it on balance and what the Conservatives
:54:09. > :54:14.and Labour are talking about is really go see is, let's have the
:54:14. > :54:18.good bits are not the bad bits, but that does not work. We have to make
:54:18. > :54:28.a decision, as my party says, we believe we are better off out or
:54:28. > :54:35.
:54:35. > :54:37.take the view, that we are all in. want to return to immigration. Does
:54:37. > :54:39.Labour accept some of the -- responsibility for the
:54:39. > :54:41.disenchantment? We have. We were talking about it this week. We
:54:41. > :54:46.should have done things differently with controls. We need to make sure
:54:46. > :54:50.that the national minimum wage is enforced so that people are not
:54:50. > :54:54.employed on very low wages which draws on immigration illegally.
:54:54. > :55:01.Those are the sort of things which are not being tackled by the current
:55:01. > :55:04.government. Why do Scotland want to go into Europe, do you think?
:55:05. > :55:14.are a different situation. The argument has been raised already. I
:55:15. > :55:15.
:55:15. > :55:22.am not going to stand here to defend Scottish Independents. Nigel Farage
:55:22. > :55:29.is like the Alex Salmond of England. I think he would take that as a huge
:55:29. > :55:32.compliment. If we look at where the SNP came from, they started off by
:55:32. > :55:37.winning a by-election many years ago and maybe it will not be so long. We
:55:37. > :55:41.had a lot of second places. We could win a parliamentary by-election and
:55:41. > :55:45.who knows what will come from that. Them is one thing about these
:55:45. > :55:55.elections which will worry all politicians that was how few people
:55:55. > :55:57.
:55:57. > :56:02.actually voted. In some areas as many as 82% did not bother. The
:56:02. > :56:06.West, in the grip of electoral fever. After weeks of campaigning,
:56:06. > :56:10.and thousands of postal vote applications, the ballot boxes
:56:10. > :56:15.arrived and the polling stations were armed and ready for eager
:56:15. > :56:21.voters. Look, there are some. Four years ago turnout was around 40%,
:56:21. > :56:25.could it be matched this time? The cancer is... Nope. One of the most
:56:25. > :56:35.notable things in these elections was the sheer number of people who
:56:35. > :56:42.
:56:42. > :56:44.did not bother to use their polling cards are both at all. Here in the
:56:44. > :56:46.centre of Bristol we had the lowest turnout with just over 17% of people
:56:46. > :56:49.bothering to vote. That was reflected across the West. Bristol
:56:49. > :56:54.had the lowest overall turnout at just under 25%. Somerset had the
:56:54. > :56:58.highest turnout, reaching the dizzy heights of 36%. Here over one third
:56:58. > :57:07.of people actually bothered to vote. In one seat in Bristol it was clear
:57:07. > :57:14.how close things can get. I1-macro by one vote. It is fair to say that
:57:14. > :57:22.every vote does matter. In the Eastville ward there was concern is
:57:22. > :57:29.about younger people. It is a shame. People lost their lives for the
:57:29. > :57:33.vote. You are entitled to vote, you should use it. In elections doesn't
:57:33. > :57:40.really matter how low things go? The fact is the candidate with the most
:57:40. > :57:49.votes will still be elected, even if only 17% of people turned out. With
:57:49. > :57:55.the turnout solo, is there any real democracy in these local elections?
:57:55. > :57:59.As long as people have the right to vote, if one person votes, then the
:57:59. > :58:08.person who gets that vote wins. What are we doing wrong as politicians
:58:08. > :58:11.that mean people are not interested in voting? When you see the
:58:11. > :58:16.disconnect between the political elite and the electorate, not just
:58:16. > :58:21.in this country but across Europe, there is a feeling that it is them
:58:21. > :58:25.and us and UKIP has broken into that. I think some politicians on
:58:25. > :58:30.both the left and right overcome that problem, Boris Johnson in
:58:30. > :58:35.London is a good example from the right, and we need politics that
:58:35. > :58:40.excites people. What is interesting is the number of second places you
:58:40. > :58:45.got. If you had had your way and persuaded the British public to have
:58:45. > :58:48.proportional representation, they would be a powerful force. I think
:58:48. > :58:53.people should vote, they should feel a sense of civic obligation. I
:58:54. > :58:59.recognise lots of people do not politicians have some responsibility
:58:59. > :59:03.to ask why that is. To build on that point, you hear at Labour
:59:03. > :59:13.politicians say we can win the General Election with 31% of the
:59:13. > :59:23.
:59:23. > :59:26.vote. If you got a General Election UKIP got over that and did not win
:59:26. > :59:28.any seats and Labour had an outright majority, you would have a crisis of
:59:29. > :59:32.confidence. There is a sense that a lot of our political system... If it
:59:32. > :59:36.is not broken, it needs attention. This was a problem in the old days.
:59:36. > :59:46.We are building up through local councils. It is time now for our
:59:46. > :59:49.weekly round-up in just 60 seconds. The government have been accused of
:59:49. > :59:54.condoning the death penalty for refusing to pay the legal fees for a
:59:55. > :59:58.Lindsay Sandiford who is facing a firing squad in Bali. She was
:59:58. > :00:04.sentenced to death in January for smuggling more than �1.5 million
:00:04. > :00:08.worth of cocaine into the country. The author Jilly Cooper at lent her
:00:09. > :00:14.support to the pro-badger movement this week. Campaigners have been
:00:14. > :00:19.asking politicians to declare if they will help stop the planned cull
:00:19. > :00:24.of 2500 badgers from going ahead in the county in June. Remember these
:00:24. > :00:32.yellow lines? They were painted on a tiny alley in Swindon that was too
:00:32. > :00:36.narrow for any car. Charlotte Leslie wants the government to back a new
:00:36. > :00:41.Royal College of Teaching, a professional body to improve
:00:41. > :00:51.training and standards. Teaching unions say they are unconvinced by
:00:51. > :00:52.
:00:52. > :00:58.the idea. That was the week. Just before we go, they are barely meet
:00:58. > :01:03.asked Jacob what saves the Conservatives would not stand in any
:01:03. > :01:12.pact with UKIP. I hope not mine! You have to work out which seats it