:01:10. > :01:13.smoking. Should cigarettes be sold in plain
:01:14. > :01:23.packets to cut sales, and how will that go down in Bristol where so
:01:24. > :01:24.
:01:24. > :40:21.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2337 seconds
:40:21. > :40:26.that is just for us here in the West. We are talking about these
:40:26. > :40:29.things, fags. After the success of the ban on smoking in public places,
:40:29. > :40:37.should the Government get a move on and take branding of cigarette
:40:37. > :40:40.packets? That is coming up soon. Joining us in our no smoking lounge
:40:40. > :40:50.today are a Lib Dem MP Stephen Williams and the Conservatives
:40:50. > :40:51.
:40:51. > :40:57.candidate for Wells, jeans hippie. -- James Heatley. Stephen, any hopes
:40:57. > :41:07.for a job for your good self? is always speculation about it. We
:41:07. > :41:09.
:41:09. > :41:12.will just have to wait and see. Nick Clegg has my phone number. It is a
:41:12. > :41:15.job I would like. There is nothing wrong with that while your party is
:41:15. > :41:22.wrong with that while your party is in Government. Public Health
:41:23. > :41:29.Minister would be a good one. going to be smoking -- talking about
:41:29. > :41:34.smoking later on. Any thoughts you would -- about who you would like to
:41:35. > :41:38.see promoted or kicked out of the Cabinet? I have no thoughts on who I
:41:38. > :41:42.would like to be kicked out, but it is for David Cameron to build the
:41:42. > :41:45.strongest team possible to take the country forward. The economic
:41:45. > :41:50.recovery is still just beginning. There is plenty of work to be done
:41:50. > :41:53.there. It is important he builds a strong team to take the country
:41:53. > :41:59.forward and take the Conservative Party forward into pretty important
:41:59. > :42:06.elections. You write the speeches for Liam Fox will stop would you
:42:06. > :42:09.like to see him back? Liam was very kind to me when I told him he and
:42:09. > :42:14.was going to leave the army last year. He offered me a job. It has
:42:14. > :42:17.been great working for him. He has a data meant for this country, and it
:42:17. > :42:23.would be great to see him back if there was a sport for -- spot for
:42:23. > :42:27.him. Now, Weston-super-Mare's the Miss
:42:27. > :42:30.outdoor swimming pool, the Tropicana, could remain empty and
:42:30. > :42:36.boarded up four years according to local politicians. Last year, the
:42:36. > :42:41.promised to knock the swimming pool down. However, local people appealed
:42:41. > :42:44.that decision, and because of the political and legal process, it is
:42:44. > :42:52.likely to stand empty for the foreseeable future. Who is to blame
:42:52. > :42:56.for the delays? Weston on a bit. Marty. The sun,
:42:56. > :43:02.sand new pier and happy holidaymakers. On the horizon, you
:43:02. > :43:06.can just spot the sea. Cause the tide goes out so far, there is
:43:06. > :43:16.little chance of a paddle for these youngsters, and that is where this,
:43:16. > :43:18.
:43:18. > :43:22.the Trop, came into its own. In its day, it was the place to go, with
:43:22. > :43:30.water slides, diving boards and even a wave machine. Thousands queued to
:43:30. > :43:36.take the plunge here. But when new quarter -- water quality standards
:43:36. > :43:41.were introduced, that all changed. It was back in 2000 that the doors
:43:41. > :43:44.to the Trop were closed for the first time. The council said they
:43:44. > :43:49.couldn't afford to run the swimming pool. We hope the private company
:43:49. > :43:56.would take it over. He said that should happen within a few months.
:43:56. > :44:03.13 years on and with the bop -- the building falling into disrepair, the
:44:03. > :44:12.council say the only viable option is to knock it down. No queues at
:44:12. > :44:19.the famous Tropicana pool. It is closed... �25 million. So the saga
:44:19. > :44:23.has run on and on. Derek Mead is a local businessmen who built this
:44:23. > :44:27.restaurant in the town. He thinks he has a solution that should save the
:44:27. > :44:33.Trop from the wrecking ball. He says the council would listen and it is
:44:33. > :44:38.getting personal. We want to turn it into a charitable trust, and be
:44:38. > :44:43.better advised by our MP that the best way forward was to put it into
:44:43. > :44:48.a charitable trust. That would open the door for lottery money, heritage
:44:48. > :44:53.money or whatever. We don't think the figures add up. We don't think
:44:53. > :44:58.the costs are realistic, and the ongoing revenue costs of running it
:44:59. > :45:03.are dependent on resale. It has become a constant headache for the
:45:03. > :45:08.Council, discussed in meeting after meeting. They say there is fed up
:45:08. > :45:14.with it as local people. Too many, the other ones to blame. There is
:45:14. > :45:19.nothing wrong with the building itself. To leave it to go to ruin,
:45:19. > :45:25.like they are doing, is wrong. There is going to be a preservation order
:45:25. > :45:29.on it, because it will be that old. This is a town that relies on to
:45:29. > :45:34.list 's money, and having a building such as this empty is not good for
:45:34. > :45:36.the city. The council wants to do something about it, but it is now in
:45:37. > :45:41.the hands of Eric Pickles and the Department for local governor to
:45:41. > :45:48.take the final decision. The problem could come if we don't get
:45:48. > :45:53.permission to demolish, literally go from there? We have still got the
:45:53. > :45:58.power under English law for a judiciary review. We don't want to
:45:58. > :46:04.do that. Why should we waste more money that could be put into more
:46:04. > :46:07.useful use than actually getting it going? While they fight it out over
:46:07. > :46:11.what should happen to this once thriving pool, you can be pretty
:46:11. > :46:17.sure that the boarded up swimming pool will be here for one more
:46:17. > :46:20.summer and possibly many more. We did ask North Somerset Council to
:46:20. > :46:27.appear on the programme, but they said no-one was available, which is
:46:27. > :46:36.a shame. We are joined by the chair of the Weston-super-Mare to dress
:46:36. > :46:42.for the association. -- restaurant Association. I think they are so fed
:46:42. > :46:47.up abandoning the same questions over the last 13 years. Why did they
:46:47. > :46:56.want to pull it down? They said it was an eyesore, and it is also
:46:56. > :47:02.become a bit of a problem. It is unsafe. They feel they ought to put
:47:02. > :47:06.down before there is any injuries. It has been going on for 13 years.
:47:06. > :47:15.How do you feel about that? I personally feel that they should go
:47:15. > :47:20.ahead. The restaurant Association should go ahead with that as well.
:47:20. > :47:24.He should do what he wants. It is the perfect plan that we have been
:47:24. > :47:30.looking at. He says if it doesn't work, he is willing to post on
:47:30. > :47:33.himself and foot the bill and save the taxpayers. What has happened
:47:33. > :47:40.between the relationship of the council and people like you? They
:47:40. > :47:44.have stopped listening to the general public. The town council are
:47:44. > :47:48.all in support, but it just seems that North Somerset Council doesn't
:47:48. > :47:51.want to be listening. They have actually said in many meetings,
:47:51. > :47:58.let's just go free this meeting without bringing the Tropicana at
:47:58. > :48:01.all. Let's bring in our other guests. James, does it make you
:48:01. > :48:08.proud to hear about this sort of fiasco going on for the last 13
:48:08. > :48:12.years? I have to be honest and say that once -- whilst I've been to
:48:12. > :48:16.their many times growing up, I have not involved in any way in the
:48:17. > :48:24.Tropicana redevelopment. I feel uneasy talking about the details of
:48:24. > :48:29.that. I do think that councils face a difficult challenge. There are the
:48:29. > :48:32.needs of the community, needs to be developed, needs for economic
:48:32. > :48:37.growth. That is never going to be complete agreement over projects.
:48:37. > :48:39.Yes, the Tropicana seems to have been dragging on over quite a while,
:48:39. > :48:46.but it is difficult to comment on the details of that case went and
:48:46. > :48:51.saw unfamiliar with it. It is the ability of a council to act
:48:51. > :48:58.reasonably quickly. Stephen, what do you think of the performance of the
:48:58. > :49:02.Council on this issue? As a point Western Europe, it is something you
:49:02. > :49:07.have to do it many times over the years. As a boy, I swum in the
:49:07. > :49:11.Tropicana and played on the dodgems at the pier. The Tropicana saga
:49:11. > :49:14.seems to have gone on for many years. It is a puzzle why the
:49:14. > :49:19.council hasn't got a grip on this and sorted it out. The sun doesn't
:49:19. > :49:25.shine all the time in the area, so you do need dry attractions for
:49:25. > :49:31.people to enjoy. What may be puzzling to some viewers is that it
:49:31. > :49:34.is going to Eric Pickles to make the decision. If the council can't even
:49:34. > :49:38.decide what happens to a pretty average swimming pool on the
:49:38. > :49:45.seafront, without going all the way to the Government, does that
:49:45. > :49:48.indicate something has gone very wrong watermark I think it indicates
:49:48. > :49:54.absolutely the way that planning has been done previously in this country
:49:54. > :49:58.is indeed very wrong. I think what the Government introduced last year,
:49:58. > :50:02.which is to empower local authorities to make decisions that
:50:02. > :50:05.have been arrived at through consultation with the local
:50:05. > :50:10.community and plans developed, the expectation is that as those changes
:50:10. > :50:16.come into effect and as those plans are developed, less things will need
:50:16. > :50:21.to be referred. Do you think local people would have sorted this out?
:50:21. > :50:28.They would have sorted it out in no time. Thank you very much. Let's all
:50:28. > :50:32.for some sunny weather. The latest wheeze to stop smoking.
:50:32. > :50:35.I've not of Bristol was built on tobacco and it is still the
:50:35. > :50:40.headquarters of Imperial, which has announced profits of more than �1
:50:40. > :50:45.billion in just six months. But now the company is fighting to protect
:50:45. > :50:49.its pants. It spends millions on nice, shiny packets like this. But
:50:49. > :50:54.no campaigners want all branding stripped off and cigarettes sold in
:50:54. > :50:58.drab containers like this one. They all look the same. The Government
:50:58. > :51:05.seemed up for the idea but nothing happened.
:51:05. > :51:11.It was once tobacco city. Crystal prospered manufacturing cigarettes.
:51:11. > :51:17.A jobs with -- a job with Imperial Tobacco was much sought-after.
:51:17. > :51:21.Workers were given free fags. One who worked at the giant complex was
:51:21. > :51:26.George Bookham. That was the head office, and I used to work over
:51:26. > :51:33.there. He started smoking as a child and only stopped after the end of
:51:33. > :51:43.his quarter-century with the firm. I think the majority of blokes
:51:43. > :51:43.
:51:43. > :51:49.smoked. I mean, we were all brought up like that and note it could do
:51:49. > :51:55.any harm or anything. He pleases parliament for the 2007 ban on
:51:55. > :51:58.smoking in public places. One of the staunchest supporters was Bristol
:51:58. > :52:02.West MP Stephen Williams, whose work has been recognised with an award
:52:02. > :52:09.from the world health organisation. Presenting it, Health Minister Anna
:52:09. > :52:16.Soubry. It was all part of making smoking socially unacceptable. That
:52:16. > :52:22.had a big impact on me. Government is thought to have
:52:22. > :52:26.stalled on standardised packaging, she hasn't. The result is a bit of
:52:26. > :52:29.resistance, and certainly that can be said about the ban on smoking in
:52:29. > :52:37.public places. All these years later, with the huge success of it,
:52:37. > :52:45.you think back to it, and say, how was that not ever seen is a great
:52:45. > :52:50.idea? It has beautifully handwritten Vogue, and they are very alluding to
:52:50. > :52:56.young people. This is what they would like to see the place it. --
:52:56. > :53:00.replace it. This is the sort of pack we are keen that they bring in
:53:00. > :53:06.because it tones down all those holograms, all those pretty Paschal
:53:06. > :53:14.collars. The idea is spreading. is a, Australia became the first
:53:14. > :53:19.place to make the change. Ireland is following suit. Research at Bristol
:53:19. > :53:25.University showed people different packs and work to be impact with
:53:25. > :53:28.people, especially those who aren't committed smokers. We used an eye
:53:28. > :53:32.tracker to see exactly where people looked at packets, and what we found
:53:32. > :53:39.is that standardised packaging increases the amount of time people
:53:39. > :53:42.look at the health warning. Fighting the change are big, profitable firms
:53:42. > :53:46.like Imperial Tobacco have their headquarters here in south Bristol.
:53:46. > :53:50.The industry has lobbied hard and spent money on newspaper and
:53:50. > :53:54.magazine advertisements. They have proved much more reluctant to
:53:54. > :54:00.publicly face journalist questions. A spokesman declined request for an
:54:00. > :54:02.interview, admitting that doing TV can be counter-productive. They gave
:54:02. > :54:06.us a statement saying that standardised packaging would make it
:54:06. > :54:10.easier for counterfeiters and that half a million people had indicated
:54:10. > :54:14.they were against plain packaging. One of their former employees
:54:14. > :54:20.disagrees. George Bookham hopes it could detect them people from
:54:20. > :54:30.starting. Knowing what I know now on the medical side, I think that is a
:54:30. > :54:32.
:54:32. > :54:38.good idea. You can still put on their warnings or whatever, but
:54:38. > :54:43.people want a packet of cigarettes. They will soon get used to what the
:54:43. > :54:49.packet is and what is inside it. may not be a question of whether,
:54:49. > :54:57.more a matter of when. Joining the debate is Simon Clark,
:54:57. > :55:00.the director of Forest. We will continue in a moment or two. Stephen
:55:00. > :55:06.Williams, why wasn't this in the Queen's Speech? Why is the
:55:06. > :55:09.Government going to on this idea? The Government has done a
:55:09. > :55:13.consultation exercise on whether people favour plain and standardised
:55:13. > :55:20.packaging, and those results are being sifted through. It is also on
:55:20. > :55:23.behalf of the Welsh, and Northern Irish governments. I'm hopeful it
:55:23. > :55:27.will go ahead. I confident all the ministers in the Department of
:55:27. > :55:32.Health wanted to happen. There is a discussion as to whether it will
:55:32. > :55:38.happen. There is overwhelming goodwill towards the needs of the
:55:38. > :55:42.public, but also to health campaigners as well. It is pretty
:55:42. > :55:45.cynical, isn't it? Your campaign against standardised packaging which
:55:45. > :55:51.would take the glamour away from packets of cigarettes which look
:55:51. > :55:54.appealing. I would say it is a fallacy that children start smoking
:55:54. > :55:58.because of so-called glitzy packaging. There is no credible
:55:58. > :56:01.evidence to suggest that. For years, it has been accepted that teenagers
:56:01. > :56:07.start smoking because of family influence or because of pier
:56:07. > :56:11.pressure. Packaging had nothing to do with it. There is no credible
:56:11. > :56:16.evidence that plain packaging would actually stop young people smoking
:56:16. > :56:19.or convince adult smokers to give up. Only one country in the world...
:56:20. > :56:25.Only one country in the world has introduced this kind of packaging,
:56:25. > :56:27.which is still you. It is far too early to draw conclusions. You have
:56:27. > :56:34.opposed every move to try and limit smoking in public places and all the
:56:34. > :56:39.rest of it. Isn't this just exactly what you always do? That is not true
:56:39. > :56:43.at all. I am like everyone here. I don't want to see children smoking.
:56:43. > :56:47.We will support all reasonable measures to discourage that. We
:56:47. > :56:52.suspected -- we supported region the age of which cigarettes should be
:56:52. > :56:59.sold to children to 18 years old. We don't think that plain packaging is
:56:59. > :57:02.reasonable that it will work. Looking at the Imperial website, as
:57:02. > :57:07.I did this afternoon, it is about growth. They want more and more
:57:07. > :57:14.sales. I am here to represent the consumer, and this is all about the
:57:14. > :57:23.normalisation. We receive funding from the organisation, but why
:57:23. > :57:29.should... But you represent the industry customer --? We represent
:57:29. > :57:34.the consumer. Experts, retired and seven Place officers, for example,
:57:34. > :57:41.believe it will help illicit trade and increase false cigarettes.
:57:41. > :57:44.Criminal gangs will sell to children. Stephen Williams, if all
:57:44. > :57:47.cigarette packets look the same, then you might just as well buy the
:57:47. > :57:53.cheapest and the might be counterfeit with all sorts of
:57:53. > :57:56.rubbish in them. Counterfeit cigarettes are a big problem, that
:57:56. > :57:59.needs to be dealt with. It can be done the moment with the existing
:57:59. > :58:04.design of packs. Having a standardised design is not go to
:58:04. > :58:08.make it any more easy or difficult for criminal gangs to do that. Simon
:58:08. > :58:13.says there is no evidence that tobacco companies use glitzy
:58:13. > :58:18.packaging to attract children into smoking, but why do they do it? Why
:58:19. > :58:22.do they have cigarettes packaged with lipstick chips? I have seen
:58:22. > :58:26.packaging in the shape of iPods or camera phones, obviously designed to
:58:26. > :58:35.appeal to teenagers. If these tactics don't work why do they do
:58:35. > :58:43.then? It is a legitimate industry, they pay their taxes. Why should
:58:43. > :58:49.customers be treated like scum? Well, anyone who is in favour of
:58:49. > :58:52.treating 's customers like scum... I don't think any parent would
:58:52. > :58:58.rationally once the child to start smoking, but most people start
:58:58. > :59:06.smoking in their mid to late teens. But what I am about is trying to put
:59:06. > :59:12.everything we can, all our values, of stopping cigarettes appealing to
:59:12. > :59:16.susceptible minds. I do have a slight concern of, is this the tip
:59:16. > :59:25.of the iceberg? Will we get to the stage where there is no branding on
:59:25. > :59:29.beer taps and -- in pubs quit you might -- in pubs? We do need to
:59:29. > :59:34.drive down the number of smokers. How we package cigarettes is one way
:59:34. > :59:37.of doing it. Encouraging healthy lifestyles is another. Advertising
:59:37. > :59:40.campaigns of showing the impact of smoking on the human body is also
:59:40. > :59:46.important. There is room for what Stephen is doing, but we need to do
:59:46. > :59:50.much more. That is a slippery slope, because confidence in Ireland last
:59:50. > :59:53.week called for plain packaging on alcohol. That is the way we're
:59:53. > :59:58.going, will be state intervenes in perfectly legitimate businesses and
:59:58. > :00:04.them of their intellectual property. At the same time, they have asked
:00:04. > :00:10.consumers, and yet, tobacco is perfectly legal. Would you say the
:00:10. > :00:16.same thing if we were saying the same thing and a cancer ward and not
:00:16. > :00:21.in this nice to you? I think adults should make an informed choice, and
:00:21. > :00:31.that is what most adults do. Time to take a spin through the
:00:31. > :00:35.other political stories in our 62nd round up. -- 60 seconds round-up.
:00:35. > :00:38.Drivers beware. There will be more speeding tickets issued in even and
:00:38. > :00:45.Somerset if the new Chief Constable gets his own way. He has written to
:00:45. > :00:50.local councils offering them help to switch councils back on. More than a
:00:50. > :00:53.year, this 22-year-old has been at the battle with the council.
:00:53. > :00:59.He says the council has acted illegally by shutting down dedicated
:00:59. > :01:03.youth services. Three judges and the appeal court will take the final
:01:03. > :01:06.decision. Weston General Hospital has been
:01:07. > :01:10.issued with more warnings that it must improve after failing to meet
:01:10. > :01:15.five out of six national standards. The local MP says it is not good
:01:15. > :01:18.enough. And congratulations to Tony
:01:18. > :01:23.Robinson, the left-wing Bristol activist and actor who has been made
:01:23. > :01:32.in night. Sir Tony says he will use the statist to boost his campaigns
:01:32. > :01:37.for better care homes for the elderly.
:01:37. > :01:42.What would Blackadder say? Let's pick up on one of those subjects,
:01:42. > :01:49.speed cameras. The new Chief Constable in Avon and Somerset one
:01:49. > :01:51.symptom back on. What do you think, James? As I have been going around
:01:51. > :01:55.in my constituency, people are concerned with the speeds that
:01:55. > :01:59.people drive. I would say that where cameras are placed to genuinely
:01:59. > :02:02.improve road safety, there is a place for them. It is a suspicion
:02:02. > :02:08.that they might have been previously put in place to maximise revenues.
:02:08. > :02:13.We need to need sure safety is the priority. The danger is they do
:02:13. > :02:19.criminalise tens of thousands of motorists? Deservedly so, in that
:02:19. > :02:22.case. Speed kills. One of the lessons I learned 20 years ago when
:02:23. > :02:25.I was first elected to the council -- county council was a
:02:25. > :02:30.demonstration by road safety officers at what happens when a car
:02:30. > :02:37.hit you at 20 mph, 30 mph and 40 mph. There is a catastrophic
:02:37. > :02:42.difference. Driving at speed is a huge danger. Is there evidence that
:02:42. > :02:49.cameras stop that? It must change the behaviour of people.
:02:49. > :02:56.shouldn't be doing it anyway. you ever been over 30 with your Mac
:02:56. > :02:59.-- over 30? No-one is a saint, but speed cameras can make a difference.
:02:59. > :03:03.That is all we have time for this week. Thank you to our guests for
:03:03. > :03:08.joining us. If you want to e-mail us with your comments or stories, the