:01:11. > :01:14.that's recycling their old ways of doing things. Yes, Swindon are left
:01:14. > :01:24.red-faced as they admit it's cheaper to bring essential services back
:01:24. > :01:24.
:01:24. > :36:39.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2115 seconds
:36:39. > :36:43.programme. 20 minutes of political debate to come. How council services
:36:43. > :36:49.like this in Swindon are changing to save money but was it a rubbish idea
:36:49. > :36:53.to involve private enterprise in the first place? Joining us today to
:36:53. > :36:57.members of the European Parliament whose parties are often at war with
:36:57. > :37:05.each other. Sometimes they are good friends. They Julie Girling and
:37:05. > :37:11.William Dartmouth, a Tory peer who defected to the UK Independence
:37:11. > :37:16.Party in 2007. Welcome. First the renegotiation of our terms
:37:16. > :37:19.in Europe. How's that going? It has not started because the
:37:19. > :37:24.renegotiation that the prime and Steph has talked about is predicated
:37:24. > :37:30.on winning the 20 15th election so he can go forward with the 2017
:37:30. > :37:40.in-out referendum based on the situation. What are your colleagues
:37:40. > :37:40.
:37:40. > :37:45.saying? I lay saying it is a good idea or not? Some say it is
:37:45. > :37:47.absolutely unthinkable and they cannot do anything. That the UK
:37:47. > :37:55.won't do anything. Privately, depending on the country, our
:37:55. > :37:59.colleagues have their own bit of the relationship with the youth that
:37:59. > :38:06.they want to renegotiate. There is support across the board depending
:38:06. > :38:12.on the issue. We are already seeing that. What more could you want?
:38:12. > :38:17.have to get the agreement of all 27 EU member states, which is highly
:38:18. > :38:25.unlikely. Anything they come away with, as Nigel Lawson said, or he
:38:25. > :38:30.wrote it, will be inconsequential. In the next couple of weeks, Croatia
:38:30. > :38:35.is becoming a member of the European Union, which is another poor country
:38:35. > :38:39.with a GDP per capita half of that which we enjoy in the UK, which the
:38:39. > :38:43.British taxpayer will have to pay for. It also highlights the fact
:38:43. > :38:48.that the establishment parties, Conservative, Labour and to them
:38:48. > :38:53.want six more very poor countries, such as Turkey, to become members of
:38:53. > :38:58.the European Union. What you are saying is that when they go to
:38:58. > :39:05.European Union they will not give an inch but when we leave they will
:39:05. > :39:13.want to trade with us anyway? saying that the renegotiation is
:39:13. > :39:22.something that was floated by David Cameron for internal reasons of the
:39:22. > :39:29.Conservative party. There is no king 's -- there is no consistency to it.
:39:29. > :39:32.We will put a date in the diary for that discussion. Can I just say that
:39:32. > :39:37.UKIP are a long way from knowing what the negotiating position is in
:39:37. > :39:39.the EU because they do not participate. They may be members of
:39:40. > :39:49.parliament but they don't participate in the work SO how they
:39:50. > :39:51.
:39:51. > :40:00.would know how the negotiations will go... You are not part of the
:40:00. > :40:04.European Parliament's discussion on anything. Moving on, the scandal of
:40:04. > :40:06.the Care Quality Commission, which is meant to be our ayes and ears in
:40:06. > :40:09.care homes and hospitals making sure that people are properly looked
:40:09. > :40:13.after. The commission is accused of
:40:13. > :40:17.covering up failings and looking after its own interests instead of
:40:17. > :40:23.ours was the it comes as no surprise to one care worker from Somerset who
:40:23. > :40:26.blew the whistle at the institution where she worked.
:40:26. > :40:30.This week, the Care Quality Commission has been in the aye of a
:40:30. > :40:34.storm over how it responds to concerns about patient care. The
:40:35. > :40:44.waves of concern go back many years. All the way to this care home in
:40:44. > :40:51.Somerset and how it's manager, Rachel Baker, were siphoning off
:40:51. > :40:56.money. She is now in prison for killing one of the residents. Sarah
:40:56. > :41:00.Barnett thinks that the CQC is not fit for purpose. The trouble is, the
:41:00. > :41:03.last government founded difficult to stomach some of those truths. It was
:41:03. > :41:06.easier to give the inspections to a tame body who can gloss over things
:41:06. > :41:12.that were difficult and the problems you are seeing now are legacy from
:41:12. > :41:16.that decision back in 2005 to put appearance over reality. More
:41:16. > :41:19.recently, questions over how the CQC response to whistleblowers have been
:41:19. > :41:27.raised by the scandal of Winterbourne View. Adults with
:41:27. > :41:32.learning disabilities were filmed being abused, hit and taunted. This
:41:32. > :41:34.nurse says that the regulator failed to respond to his concerns. In the
:41:34. > :41:41.past, CQC inspections have been criticised for only scratching the
:41:41. > :41:45.surface, so now the watchdog is launching a public consultation on
:41:45. > :41:50.its plans to upgrade inspections of the NHS. The first public meeting
:41:50. > :41:55.nationally is in Bristol in a weeks time.
:41:55. > :41:57.We asked the care quality commission to speak to us today but there was
:41:58. > :42:04.no one available for comment. We can meet the whistleblower, Sarah
:42:04. > :42:08.Barnett, who we saw in the film there. Thank you for joining us.
:42:08. > :42:13.Give us the background. You are working at this care home and what
:42:13. > :42:19.sort of raised your concerns? things back then. I had concerns
:42:19. > :42:24.about medication, the rate of deaths within the home, documentation,
:42:24. > :42:27.numerous concerns at the time. This was going on at you decided that you
:42:27. > :42:32.had to get some assistance in this. What happened when you try to raise
:42:32. > :42:38.the alarm? More importantly, there was an inspection by the regulatory
:42:38. > :42:44.body that deemed the home save and meeting all needs for the residents.
:42:44. > :42:47.That delayed me raising my concerns and made me question myself. There
:42:47. > :42:52.were six more deaths at the home before I eventually contacted the
:42:52. > :42:57.regulatory body to have a meeting with them to report things. What
:42:57. > :43:01.happened then? Then it was incredibly fast moving and the
:43:01. > :43:05.police became involved and it was a criminal enquiry. Unfortunately, the
:43:05. > :43:11.residents had to leave their home and the manager of the home was
:43:12. > :43:16.convicted of manslaughter. What are your thoughts about the performance
:43:16. > :43:21.now they Care Quality Commission? Naively, I think I had I issued at
:43:21. > :43:27.the time it was quite traumatic for many people involved, that this
:43:27. > :43:33.would not happen again. I think that is what is so desperately sad.
:43:33. > :43:42.Family cases do we need in a decade, with Winterbourne View and
:43:42. > :43:48.Parkfields Care Home and so on? I am not surprised. Why is it not
:43:48. > :43:58.working? Our expectations for this body are too wide-ranging. The
:43:58. > :44:00.
:44:00. > :44:05.portfolio is too enormous. I don't think anybody could cover everything
:44:05. > :44:10.in one remote and provide regulation for it. What is the answer?
:44:10. > :44:17.Independent inspectorate bodies. That is what it is posted be, isn't
:44:17. > :44:24.it? I don't think it is. It cannot be independent if it is that a
:44:24. > :44:30.government run body. It is whether this needs to go back down to
:44:30. > :44:35.community areas. Certainly need to be split down into specialist areas
:44:35. > :44:40.so acute trusts are not treated in the same way as dentistry and small
:44:40. > :44:44.residential trust. Institutions that provide bad care are often good at
:44:44. > :44:50.covering it up, aren't they? They probably are but on the other hand
:44:50. > :44:53.they are not necessarily try to covered cover it up. The sad thing
:44:53. > :44:59.is that our confidence will be lost in the care home industry, right
:44:59. > :45:05.through to the NHS Trust. There are fantastic front-line workers and in
:45:05. > :45:09.any care situation, that is based on an amount of trust. What this has
:45:09. > :45:18.done and what he CQC has done is destroy that trust. They are not
:45:18. > :45:25.here, we did invite them, as I said. I bet they say that the we do not
:45:25. > :45:27.see the good work that they do. We would be blind not to see the
:45:27. > :45:31.mistakes and we would be irresponsible if we did not deal
:45:31. > :45:36.with them. That is the problem. We have enquiries and serious case
:45:36. > :45:40.reviews and this report and there are recommendations and actions to
:45:40. > :45:48.be made from them. Where are these actions? Where are these
:45:48. > :45:55.recommendations? When will we have legislation? Let us bring in our
:45:55. > :46:00.politicians. Any suggestions? We have seen the culture of secrecy,
:46:00. > :46:04.which I hope has been blown apart a little bit. We have taken away
:46:04. > :46:09.hiding behind the data protection act. That is a good sign. Clearly
:46:09. > :46:12.anything that happens is a bad thing. We have got to get it in
:46:12. > :46:18.proportion. I think possibly the government needs to look at
:46:18. > :46:21.resources to make sure that there is enough there to do the job properly.
:46:21. > :46:25.We have been wasting our resources on gagging clauses rather than
:46:25. > :46:31.sorting anything out. That has come out this week as well. That issue of
:46:31. > :46:35.gagging clauses and data protection is up for public discussion now.
:46:36. > :46:41.can shine a light on it and pick some changes. Are there any lessons
:46:41. > :46:47.we can learn from across the Channel? I don't think they are
:46:47. > :46:52.reading about this scandal in continental Europe. The important
:46:52. > :46:58.point is that gagging orders should be completely out. We have just read
:46:58. > :47:04.that the NHS has spent �28 million of taxpayers money on gagging
:47:04. > :47:09.orders. What is it they are trying to conceal? The BBC has spent �22
:47:09. > :47:18.million of licence payers money on gagging orders. I haven't seen any
:47:18. > :47:24.of it! I'm just reporting the papers. These gagging orders should
:47:24. > :47:30.be made illegal for public bodies. We have to leave it there. Thank you
:47:30. > :47:32.for coming in. Do you know what your Jordan are up to when they are on
:47:32. > :47:40.the computer? The government is worried that kids are being allowed
:47:40. > :47:50.unsupervised access to the Internet. Claire Perry is leading a campaign
:47:50. > :47:51.
:47:52. > :47:58.to make it harder 14 ages to gain access -- for teenagers to gain
:47:58. > :48:03.access to pornography. This is a philosophical issue. If we have 22%
:48:03. > :48:06.of people saying how they are concerned how easy it is to gain
:48:06. > :48:11.access to adult content, we have to do something. We are not
:48:11. > :48:18.legislating. It is an area where the governance should start wading in
:48:18. > :48:22.and passing laws? What we should be doing is working with the Internet
:48:22. > :48:26.service providers, the top four of whom have about 90% of the market
:48:26. > :48:32.and saying you are involved in this, what are you going to do about
:48:32. > :48:35.it? We should have filters that protect all of the devices in the
:48:35. > :48:43.home. They need to be more robust. The other area that we debated last
:48:43. > :48:53.week, quite hotly, was the issue of material that is unequivocally
:48:53. > :48:57.illegal, images of children. That material is not acceptable in the UK
:48:57. > :49:00.so why is it still available? That is an area of concern across made
:49:00. > :49:06.apartments will stop the safeguard we want is we do not want people to
:49:06. > :49:11.be able to access it either online or in the off-line world. Many
:49:11. > :49:14.people say should be blocked but it is the access that children may may
:49:14. > :49:19.not have that is the more contentious issue. That is a matter
:49:19. > :49:25.for mum and dad. You say that but we know that mum and dad... Is it
:49:25. > :49:30.really? In every other industry, including the BBC, we have not just
:49:30. > :49:36.said to parents, the BBC will broadcast whatever it likes, 24-hour
:49:36. > :49:41.is a day and it is your job to turn it off. We don't say that you take
:49:41. > :49:46.pot luck about the films you see at the cinema. We accept a partnership
:49:46. > :49:54.between government, companies and consumers in the media to help keep
:49:54. > :49:59.children safe. On the Internet, it is different. When I first started
:49:59. > :50:01.using the Internet in 1996, that may have been true. But now it is such a
:50:01. > :50:07.mainstream way of communicating and transmitting content that I don't
:50:07. > :50:10.think that ideology applies any more. We have got to do more. We
:50:10. > :50:15.know it is a great concern. I don't pick regulation is the right way to
:50:15. > :50:20.do it but we have got to work together and deliver better filters.
:50:21. > :50:29.Have you turned into a modern Mary Whitehouse? I have been called many
:50:29. > :50:34.things and I don't care about the insults... It is not an insult!
:50:34. > :50:37.is utter nonsense. We already have filters that are available that are
:50:37. > :50:42.provided for every individual device in our home. You have to download
:50:42. > :50:46.them onto everything. I don't know how the Internet enabled the vices
:50:46. > :50:51.you have, probably quite a few. We know that parents do not do that, it
:50:51. > :50:54.is too difficult and two, located, they don't understand it. What we
:50:54. > :51:01.are saying is that companies have got to do more, produce better
:51:01. > :51:04.filters and we need to educate people about how to do that. Should
:51:04. > :51:09.parents have access to their children's computers, their
:51:09. > :51:16.passwords, their codes for their mobile phones? Does it not depend on
:51:16. > :51:23.the age of the child? I have teenage children and it is a matter of
:51:23. > :51:29.judgement. People are paying for these contracts, you cannot engage
:51:29. > :51:32.in a contract until you are 18. Should we not have some
:51:32. > :51:38.responsibility to make sure that we know who our children's
:51:38. > :51:44.conversations happening with? The mobile phone companies put him place
:51:44. > :51:48.and adult content bar seat cannot get access to adult content and you
:51:48. > :51:57.prove you are 18. It is not censorship, it is common sense.
:51:57. > :52:04.Thank you. A company set up to save Swindon taxpayers money has cost
:52:04. > :52:10.them dear. It is only FUD is since councillors
:52:10. > :52:16.passed road maintenance and rubbish collection to Swindon Commercial
:52:16. > :52:20.Services. Now it is what being brought back in.
:52:20. > :52:25.Councils are trying to seek better, cheaper ways of delivering public
:52:25. > :52:31.services. In Swindon, they thought they had done that. Dozens of staff
:52:31. > :52:38.were transferred to Swindon Commercial Services.
:52:38. > :52:45.When SCCS became a company in 2010, hopes were high. The official aim
:52:45. > :52:52.was that it would benefit services and increase revenue return. It has
:52:52. > :53:00.been far from the case. The additional costs of this stand-alone
:53:00. > :53:05.company are from 1.5 to �2 million a year.
:53:05. > :53:10.So the administration is set to bring most of it back in-house. It
:53:10. > :53:17.is easy through hindsight to say it was not the right decision. We never
:53:17. > :53:22.expected the events that have happened to have happened. You could
:53:22. > :53:27.argue it is a little embarrassing. Labour councillors warned that the
:53:27. > :53:32.expected savings could fail to materialise once again. They dressed
:53:32. > :53:37.it up as the greatest thing since sliced bread, this company. Now they
:53:37. > :53:41.are bringing it back because that is the best thing to do. Either they
:53:41. > :53:45.were wrong then they are wrong now. In my view, they were wrong both
:53:45. > :53:49.times. The council have you believe that this lot are losing money. They
:53:49. > :53:52.did not make as much money as they were predicted to make and that is
:53:52. > :53:57.not their fault. It is because of some of the things that the council
:53:57. > :54:03.itself has done. It has driven down the amount of money that they are
:54:03. > :54:06.prepared to pay for the services that they are provided. 550 staff
:54:06. > :54:11.will go back to being council employees for now. Services will
:54:11. > :54:19.then be reconfigured and cuts are inevitable. We will do everything we
:54:19. > :54:25.can to protect jobs but we have to live in the rule world which says
:54:25. > :54:31.that the government are talking about reducing the level of support
:54:31. > :54:38.to local government across the country and my area of concern now
:54:38. > :54:45.is delivering in Swindon. We Jews, reuse and recycle. A philosophy not
:54:45. > :54:50.just for Swindon residents but also, it seems, their counsel.
:54:50. > :55:00.Councillors are trying to make ends meet, not necessarily successfully,
:55:00. > :55:03.you want even more cuts, don't you? Rubbish disposal has been made more
:55:03. > :55:10.expensive by EU directives. The landfill directive which was brought
:55:10. > :55:16.about by your predecessor, Caroline Jackson, which has made rubbish
:55:16. > :55:21.disposal more offensive across the country. That would go under UKIP?
:55:22. > :55:29.We would be able to make our own rules in our own way, in our own
:55:29. > :55:34.national interest. Using free enterprise doesn't always work,
:55:34. > :55:39.where does this end? It does not always work but it does sometimes. I
:55:39. > :55:44.was the leader of the council when we bought in privatising waste
:55:44. > :55:49.collection. It worked well 15 years ago and it is still going on. It has
:55:49. > :55:52.expanded and is in cooperation with other councils and is now doing
:55:52. > :55:55.extreme the well. It is one of the highest performing in the country.
:55:55. > :55:59.Swindon has had a different experience and I don't know the
:55:59. > :56:05.details of it but I think local government is local, it is about
:56:05. > :56:08.making local decisions that are right for your area and Swindon... I
:56:08. > :56:13.take my hat off to them. They said it was a mistake, they are going
:56:13. > :56:15.back to try and do something different. It is quite a fresh and
:56:15. > :56:25.because you hear politicians say that they won't go back on
:56:25. > :56:35.
:56:35. > :56:40.something, they keep ploughing the Minister on Foster has promised
:56:40. > :56:49.extra money this week to bring empty hands back into use.
:56:49. > :56:55.There is no special treatment for his local area. We have had to
:56:55. > :57:00.targeted on those areas where the problems are most acute. In Bristol,
:57:00. > :57:04.the mayor has been gearing up for his first car free Sunday. He is
:57:04. > :57:07.getting tough on traffic across the city. He is considering a low
:57:07. > :57:15.emission zone on top of his plans for residents parking zones. He has
:57:15. > :57:20.coming from some stinging criticism from councillors who say his plans
:57:20. > :57:26.are ill thought out. I am always juggling the different parties! And
:57:26. > :57:32.UKIP's Alex Wood says that the police have cleared him of making
:57:32. > :57:38.racist comments. He was suspended after it was said he made racist
:57:38. > :57:41.images and comment on his Facebook page. Let us pick up on that UKIP
:57:41. > :57:45.story, as you are here. It seems this young man may have
:57:45. > :57:49.been stitched up. What is your reaction? The national
:57:49. > :57:59.newspaper that stitched him up and carry that paper that may have been
:57:59. > :58:01.
:58:01. > :58:09.done by photo shop, on the front page. He said it was out of context,
:58:09. > :58:15.not photo shop. We are a party that challenges the establishment
:58:15. > :58:20.parties, particularly on the European Union but also on
:58:20. > :58:26.immigration. In consequence, we do get a lot of abuse, led by the Prime
:58:26. > :58:33.Minister, David Cameron. You are hardly outside of the
:58:33. > :58:38.establishment. The UK Independence Party is and that is what we are
:58:38. > :58:46.talking about. We're not talking about me. We do attract a lot of
:58:46. > :58:48.abuse. You don't like being called fruitcakes and all of that? It is
:58:48. > :58:58.not something that used to belong in the discourse of national political
:58:58. > :58:59.
:58:59. > :59:06.life. A serious politician should have nothing to do it. I have been
:59:06. > :59:12.accused by something by UKIP, cleared of it for days later. I'm
:59:12. > :59:21.not complaining about that. It sounds like you are complaining!