:00:38. > :00:44.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Ed Miliband and the
:00:44. > :00:48.rest of the Labour clan are in Brighton for their party conference
:00:48. > :00:53.this weekend. He's promised policies galore. But as a Sunday Politics
:00:53. > :01:01.councillors don't think he's doing a good job, will that be enough to
:01:01. > :01:06.partying like it's 2006, as Damian McBride's memoirs re-ignite the
:01:06. > :01:13.Blair-Brown wars. Alastair Campbell will tell us why he is sickened
:01:13. > :01:13.Blair-Brown wars. Alastair Campbell infighting, Conservative Party
:01:13. > :01:16.Chairman Grant Shapps will give infighting, Conservative Party
:01:16. > :01:30.In the West, under new management, Western General Hospital is staying
:01:30. > :01:36.business. In London, Labour commands over the two thirds of the ethnic
:01:36. > :01:44.minority vote but now stands accused of institutional racism. Are they
:01:44. > :01:49.right? With me, the best and the brightest political panel in the
:01:49. > :01:53.business. Isabel Hardman, Janan be tweeting like demented Damians
:01:53. > :01:56.throughout the programme. First today, scrapping the bedroom tax.
:01:56. > :02:02.Universal childcare for primary school kids. More apprenticeships.
:02:02. > :02:04.Labour Conference only begins in earnest today, but the policy and
:02:04. > :02:11.spending commitments are coming according to the Labour leader's
:02:11. > :02:12.critics. He's been out and about this morning and told Andrew Marr
:02:12. > :02:23.that he knew it was going to be this morning and told Andrew Marr
:02:23. > :02:29.It is about a party that lost office three years ago. We are trying to be
:02:29. > :02:34.a one term opposition. That is tough. I believe it is a fight that
:02:34. > :02:41.we can win and I am up for that fight. The stakes are so high for
:02:41. > :02:46.young people who want a job, for people whose living standards are
:02:46. > :02:53.being squeezed. For people who think that this is not good enough for
:02:53. > :02:54.Britain. So what do key Labour Party activists - its councillors - think
:02:54. > :02:58.about the direction Mr Miliband activists - its councillors - think
:02:58. > :03:02.taking their party? Adam Fleming is in Brighton at the Party Conference
:03:02. > :03:12.with all the details of our latest exclusive Sunday Politics survey.
:03:12. > :03:19.conference set. Let us unwrap them. With the help of an opinion poll we
:03:19. > :03:24.surveyed 1350 Labour councillors across England and Wales. We wanted
:03:24. > :03:26.to find out what they think as Labour gathers for its conference.
:03:26. > :03:32.The Labour leader warmed up for Labour gathers for its conference.
:03:32. > :03:40.week by taking to his soap box in Brighton city centre. It is great
:03:40. > :03:42.week by taking to his soap box in councillors said they did not think
:03:42. > :03:48.Ed Miliband was doing a good job as leader. 30% said they thought the
:03:48. > :03:55.party would have a better chance if someone else was in charge at the
:03:55. > :04:02.next election. You will see more of Ed Miliband as we run-up to general
:04:02. > :04:11.election. He has been in the job for three years! Now it is crunch time.
:04:11. > :04:16.The other Ed, Ed Balls, was disliked by roughly one third of the party as
:04:16. > :04:23.well. Ed Balls is not a pop your man. He says things and he speaks
:04:23. > :04:32.his mind. -- not a popular man. diplomatic. Sadly Ed Balls did not
:04:32. > :04:40.seem to be that bothered about our survey. Over at a conference centre
:04:40. > :04:45.When it comes to relations with trade unions, the majority of Labour
:04:45. > :04:50.councillors thought things were absolutely fine. Just 9% thought
:04:50. > :04:57.things with the unions were a little bit too close. Tricky because Ed
:04:57. > :05:00.Miliband want to loosen the link. The shadow environment secretary
:05:00. > :05:08.arrived in Brighton ride bicycle from London to raise money for
:05:08. > :05:10.councillors what they would do if the next election results in a hung
:05:10. > :05:16.parliament, just over half said the next election results in a hung
:05:16. > :05:20.would tell the lid Dems to get on their bikes. We would never say
:05:20. > :05:23.would tell the lid Dems to get on to going into coalition. It gives us
:05:23. > :05:27.the chance to be in government and prepare some of the damage of the
:05:27. > :05:32.last three years. So are you going to start being nice about the Lib
:05:32. > :05:38.Dems? I always treat them with courtesy. And the parties admitted
:05:38. > :05:44.that perhaps they had opened the door to too many immigrants. It
:05:44. > :05:46.that perhaps they had opened the our survey Labour councillors of
:05:46. > :05:53.warming the felt that immigration We're now joined by the Shadow Chief
:05:53. > :06:03.Secretary to the Treasury, Rachel Reeves. Good morning. Let us start
:06:03. > :06:10.with Ed Miliband. Is it true that the team insisted that he be called
:06:11. > :06:17.the leader? I just call him Ed and I think the rest of the Shadow Cabinet
:06:17. > :06:26.do. Do you welcome working for a leader that says he is winning back
:06:26. > :06:34.socialism? We are a democratic important thing is that we have
:06:34. > :06:37.socialism? We are a democratic policies that will improve people 's
:06:37. > :06:42.lives and tackle the cost of living crisis facing so many families.
:06:42. > :06:49.Policies like expanding childcare, offering more apprenticeships, all
:06:49. > :06:54.policies that I think the country are calling out for after three
:06:54. > :07:01.years of a flat-lining economy and seeing prices rise faster than wages
:07:01. > :07:08.for 38 out of the 39 months but Minister. I think that is the most
:07:08. > :07:13.important thing. So it is OK now to risk their to the Labour Party again
:07:13. > :07:18.as the Socialist party? The clue is in the name, we stand up for working
:07:18. > :07:23.people. You are socialist party according to the leader. We have
:07:24. > :07:27.always been the Labour Party, that is our name and we stand up for
:07:28. > :07:33.working people, not the privileged few like this government with their
:07:33. > :07:39.tax cuts for millionaires. Those are privileged few. The Labour Party is
:07:39. > :07:49.about helping everyone in Britain, all families. Interesting that your
:07:49. > :07:52.run don't use the word socialist. In our survey one third of Labour
:07:52. > :08:01.councillors said Ed Miliband was not doing a good job as leader. If he
:08:01. > :08:02.councillors, who can he convince? Well you could say that two thirds
:08:02. > :08:08.of councillors think that he is Well you could say that two thirds
:08:08. > :08:14.right leader. But these are Labour councillors. The overall majority of
:08:14. > :08:22.Labour councillors think that he is doing a good job. What matters is
:08:22. > :08:28.the results on election day. Two thirds of councillors think that he
:08:28. > :08:32.is doing a good job. That us see what they say at the end of this
:08:32. > :08:37.week. Because I think the policies he is announcing will go down well
:08:37. > :08:38.week. Because I think the policies with Labour Party people and will
:08:38. > :08:40.also resonate with the British public. Policies like expanding
:08:40. > :08:47.apprenticeships, giving a break public. Policies like expanding
:08:47. > :08:51.struggling. I think people will public. Policies like expanding
:08:51. > :08:58.what kind of a leader that he is. Well he has a mountain to climb
:08:58. > :09:02.among all voters. Let me ask the question. Just 12% see him as a
:09:02. > :09:07.Prime Minister in waiting, just question. Just 12% see him as a
:09:07. > :09:10.see him as a natural leader. Why? If question. Just 12% see him as a
:09:10. > :09:16.you look at the overall opinion polls, we are consistently ahead in
:09:16. > :09:22.those polls. It is hard being leader demonstrate how you would be Prime
:09:22. > :09:29.Minister. By nature you are in opposition. But he has taken on
:09:29. > :09:31.Rupert Murdoch and the press barons. That is strong leadership, standing
:09:31. > :09:38.up to the vast majority. If you That is strong leadership, standing
:09:38. > :09:45.at his reforms to our relationship with the trade unions, strengthening
:09:45. > :09:51.ties with individual members. I think that he is a strong leader
:09:51. > :09:57.making the right decisions. If that is the case, why has the Labour
:09:57. > :10:00.making the right decisions. If that gone from 14 points one year ago to
:10:00. > :10:08.at most four points now. What went wrong? Well we are six or eight
:10:08. > :10:13.are six or eight points ahead in the consistently ahead. It looks as
:10:13. > :10:14.are six or eight points ahead in the we would get an overall majority if
:10:14. > :10:18.there was an election tomorrow. we would get an overall majority if
:10:18. > :10:23.we have more work to do to convince more people to vote for Labour.
:10:24. > :10:25.we have more work to do to convince this is a historic challenge, to be
:10:25. > :10:29.a one term Labour opposition. I this is a historic challenge, to be
:10:29. > :10:32.a one term Labour opposition. I believe that Ed Miliband will be the
:10:32. > :10:38.next Labour Prime Minister and will be an excellent Prime Minister. The
:10:38. > :10:41.big policy announcement today is the guaranteed childcare for all primary
:10:41. > :10:52.school children. How much will that government, they ring fenced money
:10:52. > :10:56.after-school and breakfast clubs. We think that money should be ring
:10:56. > :11:01.fenced again. How much will it cost? We are saying that schools
:11:01. > :11:05.within their budgets should be able to provide that. At the moment they
:11:05. > :11:12.can charge for children to come to provide that. At the moment they
:11:12. > :11:18.their first clubs. But this is a additional money. As it was under
:11:18. > :11:22.the last Labour government it will be about ring fencing money because
:11:22. > :11:28.we think that this is a priority. This is something that the schools
:11:28. > :11:37.should do. You cannot ring fenced money you do not have. You saying
:11:37. > :11:41.schoolchild from eight o'clock in the morning until six o'clock at
:11:41. > :11:46.night and it will not cost any more money? Well we did ring fence that
:11:46. > :11:52.money in the last Labour government. That money is gone! It has not gone.
:11:52. > :12:02.It is about priorities and we are saying that it should be a priority
:12:02. > :12:07.where is the money being spent now that you would take it from? If
:12:07. > :12:09.where is the money being spent now look at some of the things that
:12:09. > :12:11.where is the money being spent now government is doing, building free
:12:11. > :12:19.schools in areas where there are already enough. That is capital
:12:19. > :12:26.spending. We are ring fencing that priorities. We had the ring fence
:12:26. > :12:29.when we were in government. It would be reintroduced so that schools
:12:29. > :12:32.when we were in government. It would to offer that wraparound care. Of
:12:32. > :12:36.course schools can charge a small to offer that wraparound care. Of
:12:36. > :12:41.fee for their breakfast clubs and after-school DVDs. But the important
:12:41. > :12:48.thing is that provision is there for parents going out to work. Ed Balls
:12:48. > :12:55.and Ed Miliband are at the heart of the Brown project. Damien Wright was
:12:55. > :12:59.the hit man. Is it not inconceivable that they did not know what he was
:12:59. > :13:09.the hit man. Is it not inconceivable up to. It is inconceivable that
:13:09. > :13:09.the hit man. Is it not inconceivable did not -- Damian McBride. I am
:13:09. > :13:14.asking about Damian McBride. What did not -- Damian McBride. I am
:13:14. > :13:19.asking about Damian McBride. What I'm saying is that I was not there.
:13:19. > :13:25.I was not there under the last Labour government. But I do know
:13:25. > :13:37.that these things are not happening under the leadership of Ed Miliband.
:13:37. > :13:42.that backstabbing going on. There is no plotting against Ed Balls going
:13:42. > :13:50.on? I do not see that. And anyone who briefed against colleagues
:13:51. > :13:55.should be sacked, I agree with that. Nick Clegg's conference speech made
:13:55. > :14:01.it clear he was repaired to work with Ed Miliband in the event of a
:14:01. > :14:10.hung parliament. Are you excited by that prospect or is it just boring?
:14:10. > :14:17.That is very generous of Nick Clegg to say that. With his poll ratings
:14:17. > :14:22.of 9%. I think it is up to the general public to decide who they
:14:22. > :14:23.want to form a government. We are campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:23. > :14:38.that just boring boring? I want campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:38. > :14:41.serve in a Labour government is campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:41. > :14:44.a coalition government. That is campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:44. > :14:49.we are campaigning for. Thank you for joining us. Steve Richards,
:14:49. > :14:55.we are campaigning for. Thank you has Ed Miliband got to do this
:14:55. > :15:01.week? He has got to start to win the argument about the economy. I think
:15:01. > :15:05.they will be quite clever on that in terms of saying that the recovery
:15:05. > :15:10.has begun but it is not going to benefit many of the voters. Unlike
:15:10. > :15:24.previous economic recoveries. That is a strong line and they need to
:15:24. > :15:26.make that again and again. The recovery has barely started. The
:15:26. > :15:28.make that again and again. The interesting thing, Isabel, they
:15:28. > :15:32.make that again and again. The to make a living standards the issue
:15:32. > :15:36.let's return to living standards which have been squeezed. The polls
:15:36. > :15:42.show that twice as many people blame Labour for the living standards
:15:43. > :15:45.show that twice as many people blame the Conservatives. It is a great
:15:45. > :15:48.scene for them to mine, and it is the only one before they announce
:15:48. > :15:52.big policies, but they have not gained the trust of voters on the
:15:52. > :15:56.economy, so the Conservatives can say they are finishing the job of
:15:56. > :16:02.fixing the recovery now and then cannot quite trust us with the
:16:02. > :16:09.economy but we will talk about living standards. Ed Miliband's
:16:09. > :16:12.economy but we will talk about elucidating policies and not just
:16:12. > :16:18.incredibly vulnerable. The only thing worse than not having a policy
:16:18. > :16:24.for an opposition leader is to have a policy. It gives the opposition
:16:24. > :16:26.something to attack, the media something to scrutinise and it makes
:16:26. > :16:31.you bold rubble and you can see something to scrutinise and it makes
:16:31. > :16:41.coming through already before the conference has started. You have
:16:41. > :16:47.childcare. Spigot can he provide wraparound childcare for free?
:16:47. > :16:49.childcare. Spigot can he provide can he provide wraparound childcare
:16:49. > :16:56.for free? I don't even know what it is. Opposition is emphatically an
:16:56. > :17:00.art form, and the art form, and artform for them at the moment is to
:17:00. > :17:05.announce policies without spending any money and it is very difficult
:17:05. > :17:09.to do. You gave an illustration any money and it is very difficult
:17:09. > :17:14.how difficult it is. They are under huge pressure, for the last year, to
:17:14. > :17:18.announce policies and they announce one on childcare and you immediately
:17:18. > :17:22.say, how do you paper it? And she immediately says, we will not spend
:17:22. > :17:28.a penny on it, because they are terrified of spending anything.
:17:28. > :17:32.a penny on it, because they are is where it an artform. The tax
:17:32. > :17:37.suspension before and election is crazy, because they will find money
:17:37. > :17:41.one way or another, but in another way, they cannot say we will spend
:17:41. > :17:44.money on this. It is a real problem. How do you measure the state of
:17:44. > :17:47.money on this. It is a real problem. coalition after the Liberal Democrat
:17:47. > :17:51.conference? The Liberal Democrats were in a very strong position after
:17:51. > :17:55.their conference, Nick Clegg had faced and activists on some issues,
:17:55. > :17:59.including fracking, which they supported, which seem to be the
:18:00. > :18:02.including fracking, which they important part of the conference. In
:18:02. > :18:06.terms of the coalition, the Tories have had to sit and watch as Vince
:18:06. > :18:10.Cable, Nick Clegg and Coe have basically criticised them and said
:18:10. > :18:13.they are evil and only the Lib Dems can make sure the Government is
:18:13. > :18:15.they are evil and only the Lib Dems and works properly. So in terms
:18:15. > :18:17.they are evil and only the Lib Dems how the coalition works, you can
:18:17. > :18:25.expect to see some revenge at the Tory conference. The Lib Dems, Nick
:18:25. > :18:32.Clegg's followers, they had their revenge. Mister Clegg may have
:18:32. > :18:38.convinced his own activists to stay behind him, but he has a bigger
:18:38. > :18:41.convincing the British people. There is some interesting polling they
:18:41. > :18:46.have done privately that suggests there is a market of about 25% of
:18:46. > :18:50.the electorate which is plausibly open to them, and all they have
:18:50. > :18:51.the electorate which is plausibly do is target policies remorselessly
:18:51. > :18:55.at that group, rather than the broader public, in order to do well
:18:55. > :18:58.enough at the next election to hold the balance of power. That is why
:18:58. > :19:01.policies that seem weird to us, the balance of power. That is why
:19:01. > :19:15.free school meals regardless of income, may perversely make sense to
:19:15. > :19:17.them. Because it appeals to their political world we are in, the
:19:17. > :19:20.Labour strategists think they can political world we are in, the
:19:20. > :19:20.Labour strategists think they can win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going
:19:20. > :19:22.to concentrate on 25. The Tories win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going
:19:22. > :19:24.to concentrate on 25. The Tories have seized to be a national party
:19:24. > :19:28.any more. We haven't been used to it for a long time. In the 80s, one
:19:28. > :19:32.party dominated, the Tories. In for a long time. In the 80s, one
:19:32. > :19:39.90s into the 21st century, the policy matter delayed the Labour
:19:39. > :19:42.Party dominated. -- the Labour party dominated. We are now here but we
:19:42. > :19:46.have other parties hoping that dominated. We are now here but we
:19:46. > :19:49.will give them a small overall majority and it is the best they can
:19:49. > :19:55.get. It is a very odd situation where the main two parties feel
:19:55. > :20:00.get. It is a very odd situation can lose and the Lib Dems are openly
:20:00. > :20:05.targeting only 25%. They have gotten rid of 75% already and it is a long
:20:05. > :20:12.way from the policies of last couple of decades Nick Clegg talked about
:20:12. > :20:15.all of the policies he had locked. There is a real opportunity for
:20:15. > :20:17.all of the policies he had locked. Conservatives to say that he is
:20:17. > :20:21.blocking all of the things that voters outside of our bays are
:20:21. > :20:26.interested in, top immigration policy, human rights reform, that
:20:26. > :20:30.sort of thing. David Cameron can say that in Manchester next week. One
:20:30. > :20:46.thing was quite clear, it came out of this awayday, and and this is
:20:46. > :20:51.this, that when you look at Mister Miller band's polls, the Tories
:20:51. > :20:57.this, that when you look at Mister going to make this a presidential
:20:57. > :21:04.Which is why I am curious why they When the strength of your party
:21:04. > :21:07.Which is why I am curious why they against his opponents, why not have
:21:07. > :21:09.him or her juxtaposed against them in 90 minutes three times a week.
:21:09. > :21:17.past week has given us inklings When the Lib Dems gathered for their
:21:17. > :21:23.Government is planning on fighting When the Lib Dems gathered for their
:21:23. > :21:25.annual shindig in Glasgow, some ministers were non-too complimentary
:21:25. > :21:31.about their blue blood fellows. ministers were non-too complimentary
:21:31. > :21:36.bedfellows. Vince Cable led the ministers were non-too complimentary
:21:36. > :21:40.Tories had reverted to type as a nasty party and describe their
:21:40. > :21:44.politics as ugly, cynical, callous and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not
:21:44. > :21:47.restrict himself to policies that and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not
:21:47. > :21:49.the Lib Dems had champion, such and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not
:21:49. > :21:58.increasing the amount you can earn before paying tax. The Deputy Prime
:21:58. > :22:01.Minister proudly listed all of the things he had stopped the Tories
:22:01. > :22:05.from doing. Speak of scrapping housing benefit the young people,
:22:05. > :22:13.no. No to ditching the human rights act. No to weakening the protections
:22:13. > :22:16.in the equalities act. So how much of a break have the yellow brigade
:22:16. > :22:18.being on Conservative ambitions question mark in the two leaders
:22:18. > :22:22.shake hands again after the 20 question mark in the two leaders
:22:22. > :22:29.election, what policies were David Cameron insist on. -- 2015? No
:22:29. > :22:32.matter how many times Nick Clegg And Grant Shapps joins me the Sunday
:22:32. > :22:48.Grant Shapps, good morning. Nick self-styled. He boasted to his
:22:48. > :22:52.conference that he had stopped the Tories from going ahead with 16
:22:53. > :22:56.policies in government. Is this accurate? I don't know but what
:22:56. > :22:59.policies in government. Is this can tell you, as your commentator
:22:59. > :23:02.Isabel said, some of the policies that we wanted them if we were a
:23:02. > :23:05.majority government sent out to that we wanted them if we were a
:23:06. > :23:10.very popular things, like reforming the human rights act and some of the
:23:10. > :23:11.problems that provides when it comes to sending people who have no right
:23:11. > :23:14.to be in this country back. So there to be in this country back. So there
:23:15. > :23:24.may be some things we could have inheritance tax cut? I don't know
:23:24. > :23:30.the details, but I think it is negotiation and sometimes you can't
:23:30. > :23:35.get everything you want, and we negotiation and sometimes you can't
:23:35. > :23:37.done the best, given where the electoral maths left us. That is why
:23:37. > :23:39.70 people in this country say they electoral maths left us. That is why
:23:39. > :23:42.70 people in this country say they would rather see a single party
:23:42. > :23:49.running the country -- why so many people. I have to say I agree. They
:23:49. > :23:53.Give me a couple of major policies that you would introduce if you
:23:53. > :23:56.Give me a couple of major policies had a majority in 2010 and were
:23:56. > :24:01.Give me a couple of major policies held back by the Lib Dems. Speaking
:24:01. > :24:07.the one I just mentioned would be Country, we have had 1,000 years of
:24:07. > :24:11.than capable of putting in place developing the law and we are more
:24:11. > :24:14.than capable of putting in place sensible laws. you would have left
:24:14. > :24:19.the European Court of human rights. We have already started the process
:24:19. > :24:23.of negotiation. There was some progress, but limited, and we would
:24:23. > :24:27.like to move further. Let me give you one other. I think this country
:24:27. > :24:30.has a great future but we can only ourselves the best place in the
:24:30. > :24:34.world to come and set up a business. ourselves the best place in the
:24:34. > :24:39.If we make ourselves the best place entrepreneurship and I think there
:24:39. > :24:44.are a host of things we could do to go further on cutting back red tape.
:24:44. > :24:52.And the Lib Dems have stopped you? I think that is the case. In what
:24:52. > :24:56.ways, if any, have the Lib Dems improved the coalition process? It
:24:56. > :24:58.has been a stable government. No one talks about when the next election
:24:58. > :25:04.will come, we know it is in May talks about when the next election
:25:04. > :25:10.but that is in part being in a coalition. The Tories wouldn't have
:25:10. > :25:16.done that? It wasn't the plan of any party to go from... In the old days,
:25:16. > :25:21.there would have been speculation. debate, you changed the British
:25:21. > :25:27.constitution in a fundamental way and nobody got a say. It was debated
:25:27. > :25:33.on the floor of the Has, as all constitutional changes are and there
:25:33. > :25:36.was a lot of agreement -- of the House. Nobody has ever said to me
:25:36. > :25:44.that it is a problem that we now have a fixed term parliament. Here
:25:44. > :25:49.it is, every five years. This is what it has done, it has provided
:25:49. > :25:52.stability in an incredibly uncertain economic time and that has been
:25:52. > :26:01.stability in an incredibly uncertain for the economy. we will chalk that
:26:01. > :26:09.up to delete -- Lib Dem. What about taking people out of tax, the Lib
:26:09. > :26:15.Dems did that question mark it is a great policy. It is a conservative
:26:15. > :26:21.led government, it is a Conservative This is a screen grab from your
:26:21. > :26:25.party's website, income tax cut This is a screen grab from your
:26:25. > :26:29.25 million people. You are taking the credit for it, it wouldn't have
:26:29. > :26:33.happened without the Lib Dems. It certainly came about because of
:26:33. > :26:35.happened without the Lib Dems. It coalition and we put it in the
:26:35. > :26:36.coalition agreement. It could not have happened without a Conservative
:26:36. > :26:41.Chancellor making it happen. It have happened without a Conservative
:26:41. > :26:48.right, 25 million people taken out of tax. Another 17 by this April
:26:48. > :26:52.will not be paying tax at all. you didn't want to do it. Look at what
:26:52. > :27:06.David Cameron told Nick Clegg during What Nick Clegg is promising is
:27:06. > :27:10.David Cameron told Nick Clegg during £17 billion tax cut. We are saying,
:27:10. > :27:14.stop the waste of 6 billion to stop the national insurance rise. I would
:27:14. > :27:17.love to take everyone out of their first £10,000 of income tax, it
:27:17. > :27:24.love to take everyone out of their beautiful idea but we cannot afford
:27:24. > :27:30.unaffordable and now you are taking the credit for it. I feel like it is
:27:30. > :27:33.having a three year afterwards argument, and we got into coalition
:27:33. > :27:37.because the British people put us there and we agreed to make the
:27:37. > :27:41.because the British people put us of it. And as it happens, if you
:27:41. > :27:45.absolutely think it is the right thing to take as many people out of
:27:46. > :27:54.tax entirely as possible. Two points 7 million people pay no tax at all
:27:54. > :27:59.threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm pleased it worked out. What are
:27:59. > :27:59.threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm most important thing is a majority
:27:59. > :28:05.Tory government would do after most important thing is a majority
:28:05. > :28:07.unencumbered by the Lib Dems? I think produce even more jobs when
:28:08. > :28:11.unemployment goes down, because think produce even more jobs when
:28:11. > :28:16.are the most entrepreneurial place to set up a business. Are more
:28:16. > :28:20.free-market economy? We make our money because we are out global
:28:20. > :28:26.trading economy. That is why it money because we are out global
:28:26. > :28:30.so important that we have to make sure it is easy to trade around
:28:30. > :28:32.so important that we have to make world. One simple example, it is
:28:32. > :28:34.crazy in my view that we have global tariffs that prevent some of the
:28:34. > :28:36.hardest other countries in the tariffs that prevent some of the
:28:36. > :28:36.hardest other countries in the world, in developing parts of the
:28:36. > :28:43.world, from exporting to us and world, in developing parts of the
:28:43. > :28:47.versa. I'm giving you a platform of things that I think we would be
:28:47. > :28:50.versa. I'm giving you a platform of interested in progressing in. It
:28:50. > :28:52.sounds like you are talking about even more Thatcherite, market led
:28:52. > :28:59.agendas. I think that you did a even more Thatcherite, market led
:28:59. > :29:02.amount to show this country that if you want to help the least well
:29:02. > :29:05.amount to show this country that if people in society, and the least
:29:05. > :29:09.well off people in the world, around the globe, the way to do it is to
:29:09. > :29:14.trade, and I think we should have an economy which is much more open
:29:14. > :29:15.trade, and I think we should have an free trade. If there is another
:29:15. > :29:19.trade, and I think we should have an parliament, and the poll suggest
:29:19. > :29:25.there might be, at the moment it is all to play for on both sides, what
:29:25. > :29:31.would your non-negotiable Red Line speak? We are still two years away
:29:31. > :29:35.from that, it is a long way away, but there is a lot we want to lay
:29:35. > :29:40.out. What we are going to be saying to this country is most people want
:29:40. > :29:44.a single party running the country, they think it is clean and clear and
:29:44. > :29:49.you don't end up with negotiation setting out a very clear platform
:29:49. > :29:52.which will be for hard-working people in this country who want
:29:52. > :29:55.which will be for hard-working work hard and get on in life. We
:29:55. > :29:59.would, I think, want to see the welfare state that we have got into,
:29:59. > :30:02.where it is no longer about helping those most in need but became a
:30:02. > :30:08.situation where you are better off not working than in worker, I think
:30:08. > :30:11.we plan to ensure that this is an incredibly fair place to go out
:30:11. > :30:14.we plan to ensure that this is an do a day's work and get the money at
:30:14. > :30:17.the end of the day rather than thinking there is an alternative.
:30:17. > :30:19.you have promised a referendum on UK membership of the EU in 2017, that
:30:19. > :30:27.must be your first Red Line? We membership of the EU in 2017, that
:30:27. > :30:35.clear, we want to see a referendum, a reform European Union. So no
:30:35. > :30:38.poll... ? I should remind viewers that there is an act of Parliament,
:30:38. > :30:46.a bill going through Parliament right now, for a referendum on the
:30:46. > :30:49.EU, which comes back to the House. It is past the report stage and
:30:49. > :30:55.comes back in November and we will be discussing it. The Lib Dems,
:30:55. > :31:01.Labour, will have an opportunity to support what the British people
:31:01. > :31:04.want. Lots may have changed. But it would be a Red Line for any future
:31:04. > :31:13.coalition government question mark we are clear that it is time to
:31:13. > :31:16.coalition government question mark manifesto. What is wrong with yes or
:31:16. > :31:22.no? I cannot write the manifesto for 2015. You are asking me to project
:31:22. > :31:26.beyond that and see in advance the election result and carry out the
:31:26. > :31:31.negotiations that are yet to come. I'm just trying to work out how
:31:31. > :31:41.much... I know you are committed but she won't tell me. Let's move on.
:31:41. > :31:47.Your party has been described as nasty and blinkered. What do you
:31:47. > :31:54.feel when he says that? We are interested in helping the most
:31:54. > :32:01.vulnerable people in society. I think we're doing all that and more.
:32:01. > :32:05.And it is a shame that that language was used because we have made so
:32:05. > :32:07.much progress together. Are you getting to the end of your tether
:32:07. > :32:22.with Mr King? I do not think it getting to the end of your tether
:32:22. > :32:24.terribly helpful for any Cabinet minister to make comments like that.
:32:24. > :32:35.What I would say is that Nick Clegg minister to make comments like that.
:32:35. > :32:45.is the leader of the Lib Dems and himself. Look at these figures on
:32:45. > :32:50.party membership. Why has your party lost half of its members since Mr
:32:50. > :32:53.Cameron became leader? I would like it to be more. But I think the world
:32:53. > :32:58.has changed. People do not rush it to be more. But I think the world
:32:58. > :33:07.and join political parties as they used to. Instead they support you in
:33:07. > :33:12.different ways. If I released the number of people who give to the
:33:12. > :33:18.party in different ways, through donations for example, through
:33:18. > :33:23.friend memberships. If you include that that figure goes back up. But
:33:23. > :33:35.a time when UKIP has doubled. I that that figure goes back up. But
:33:36. > :33:43.not want to to misinterpret what I want to say. It is important to
:33:43. > :33:47.not want to to misinterpret what I members. I think we will have done
:33:47. > :33:57.election. But one statistic of interest, in the last election I had
:33:57. > :34:05.constituency. The difference was I deliver leaflets and knock on the
:34:05. > :34:14.doors. The Conservative party has changed. We now have an army of
:34:14. > :34:24.people, volunteers who are not days when you expect people to give
:34:24. > :34:33.you £25, before you accept their spoke about your most vulnerable
:34:33. > :34:45.marginal seats. This is a poll from marginal seats that you will be
:34:45. > :34:48.defending. Labour is way up, you are way down and UKIP is also up. What
:34:48. > :34:59.is happening, the Lib Dem Mo -- way down and UKIP is also up. What
:34:59. > :35:06.disillusioned Conservatives are moving to UKIP. If these figures
:35:06. > :35:11.came at an election he would lose 32 of these 40 seats. The point about
:35:11. > :35:17.any opinion poll is that it is perhaps accurate at the moment it is
:35:17. > :35:26.taken. We are now in a position where the economy has turned the
:35:26. > :35:29.corner. The right thing to do was to deal with the deficit. The people
:35:29. > :35:35.being asked about these things, deal with the deficit. The people
:35:35. > :35:41.will be interested in their own standard of living. Their mortgage
:35:41. > :35:49.payments. Why are you doing worse in the marginal seats? National League
:35:49. > :35:53.you are kind of nip and tuck with Labour. Well if that is the pick to
:35:53. > :35:58.come 2015, people will see that Labour. Well if that is the pick to
:35:58. > :36:06.government has stuck to its guns. It did not go for more borrowing and
:36:06. > :36:10.demonstrates that the last thing you want to do is give the car keys
:36:10. > :36:14.demonstrates that the last thing you to the people who crashed it in
:36:14. > :36:17.demonstrates that the last thing you first place. Lynton Crosby at this
:36:17. > :36:21.away day of Conservative MPs, his one message was to go all out and
:36:21. > :36:28.attack Ed Miliband. It is going one message was to go all out and
:36:28. > :36:34.actually not true. We are going one message was to go all out and
:36:34. > :36:39.focus on his policies, if he finally announces some. Everything we have
:36:39. > :36:42.seen so far suggests it would mean more borrowing and spending. The
:36:42. > :36:53.shadow chancellor said we would more borrowing and spending. The
:36:53. > :37:05.ruthless, just a few months later, committed by Labour. These are your
:37:05. > :37:14.figures. I will speak to you about watching the Sunday Politics. Coming
:37:14. > :37:16.up in just over 20 minutes. Alastair not-too-positive review of Damian
:37:16. > :37:34.McBride's memoirs. Until then, Thank you. Welcome to your local
:37:34. > :37:41.part of the programme. Coming up today: The sell—off of Western
:37:42. > :37:45.General Hospital is controversial but now a possible conflict of
:37:45. > :37:56.interest has angered campaigners, but will the politicians listen
:37:56. > :38:00.interest has angered campaigners, through the process. Charlotte
:38:00. > :38:05.Leslie and Thagnam Debbonaire, thank you for coming. Our top story this
:38:05. > :38:11.Sunday is the future of Western General Hospital. It will stay part
:38:11. > :38:16.of the NHS but the management will be taken over by outsiders. The
:38:16. > :38:21.of the NHS but the management will is worth millions of pounds. There
:38:21. > :38:28.are all sorts of rows going on and one is about a potential conflict of
:38:28. > :38:32.interest. The prospect of a private company taking over the management
:38:32. > :38:37.of Western General Hospital is already making waves. Because of the
:38:37. > :38:45.size of this hospital and because it has difficulty balancing its books,
:38:45. > :38:50.criteria to become a foundation trust and that means it needs to be
:38:50. > :38:55.taken over or merged with another NHL 's Hospital. Or the management
:38:55. > :38:59.needs to be given to a private company. 11 companies from the
:38:59. > :39:04.public and private sector have expressed an interest. We have
:39:04. > :39:08.discovered that to of the NHS board members who will decide who should
:39:08. > :39:14.run this hospital, contracts worth millions of pounds, have worked
:39:14. > :39:19.run this hospital, contracts worth companies hoping to win back on
:39:19. > :39:26.track. One is John Underwood. Cathy Headon has to make sure the board is
:39:26. > :39:34.looking at the hospital's future is stakeholder's views. This kind of
:39:34. > :39:37.thing should not be happening and she should stand down. We want to
:39:37. > :39:43.see this interest and a lack of she should stand down. We want to
:39:43. > :39:51.where people can be accused of Underwood and Mrs head and did not
:39:51. > :39:52.want to be interviewed and say they have declared their interests.
:39:53. > :39:57.Instead, we have been sent this have declared their interests.
:39:57. > :40:20.the other organisation involved Hunt about any conflicts of interest
:40:20. > :40:29.on his visit last week. We will Hunt about any conflicts of interest
:40:29. > :40:35.sure that there are no conflicts of interest and we will make sure we do
:40:35. > :40:39.that with transparency about the interests that people have. Under
:40:39. > :40:41.the NHS reforms there is no doubt that private companies will be
:40:41. > :40:46.providing NHS services more and that private companies will be
:40:46. > :40:53.in the future. These campaigners will not be alone in scrutinising
:40:53. > :41:01.Charlotte Leslie, let me check I have this right. We have two members
:41:01. > :41:04.of the board to decide who takes over the management of Western
:41:04. > :41:07.General Hospital and they have been paid for advice by organisations
:41:07. > :41:12.hoping to get at work. If that's the problem? It is a huge problem and it
:41:13. > :41:16.is worse than that. Cathy Headon is supposed to make sure the board
:41:16. > :41:19.is worse than that. Cathy Headon is independent but she is working as a
:41:19. > :41:25.consultant for one of the companies bidding. I think any normal person
:41:25. > :41:29.will say that that is unacceptable and this is after a time when we
:41:29. > :41:34.have seen awful things going on and this is after a time when we
:41:34. > :41:40.the NHS and a lack of transparency. accountability over the last decade
:41:40. > :41:41.and at the time when we need to accountability over the last decade
:41:41. > :41:44.and at the time when we need to reassure the public that things
:41:44. > :41:47.and at the time when we need to changing, I find it incredible that
:41:47. > :41:54.transparent, everybody knows about it. Jeremy Hunt says he is happy
:41:55. > :42:01.decisions, it those individuals would not be allowed to make those
:42:01. > :42:08.decisions. They would be asked to leave the room. Secondly, this is
:42:08. > :42:09.obviously going to undermine public confidence in the decision. Whatever
:42:09. > :42:17.confidence in it. I think it is confidence in the decision. Whatever
:42:17. > :42:21.massive error of judgement and I think if the individuals understood
:42:21. > :42:25.how important is, they would remove themselves from that decision.
:42:25. > :42:30.Thagnam Debbonaire? Charlotte Leslie says it is an error of judgement by
:42:30. > :42:37.the Health Minister is waving it extraordinary that this has happened
:42:37. > :42:46.and I would have a problem at work if I made a similar decision. It is
:42:46. > :42:51.Charlotte, it is your party who voted through these reforms and
:42:51. > :42:53.Charlotte, it is your party who is the Liberal Democrats who are
:42:53. > :43:01.saying that they helped them as well. It is all very well for you to
:43:01. > :43:06.sit here and say Jeremy Hunt is wrong. Your party voted for this.
:43:06. > :43:09.This is a continuation of... I'm sorry, if you look at the lack of
:43:09. > :43:15.accountability in the NHS which sorry, if you look at the lack of
:43:15. > :43:21.killed hundreds of people... That is an outrageous thing to say. Are
:43:21. > :43:27.killed hundreds of people... That is against this because you are against
:43:27. > :43:32.the privatisation of the NHS? Labour used the private sector to bring
:43:32. > :43:36.waiting lists down in specific circumstances. This is entirely
:43:36. > :43:41.different and is opening up the entire NHS to privatisation. This is
:43:41. > :43:45.different and Charlotte Leslie knows it. Don't shake your head, your
:43:45. > :43:51.secretary of State for help has it. Don't shake your head, your
:43:51. > :43:56.it is OK for those two people to sit Charlotte Leslie, can't MPs act
:43:56. > :44:03.it is OK for those two people to sit consultants for companies question
:44:03. > :44:11.declared. What is the difference? There is no doubt that there are
:44:11. > :44:21.massive issues in it. There is corruption in the NHS that goes
:44:21. > :44:21.massive issues in it. There is have said that I have independent
:44:21. > :44:29.thoughts and I don't agree with have said that I have independent
:44:29. > :44:37.secretary on this. I have called for David Nicholson to go because he has
:44:37. > :44:43.connections. It is a disastrous State of affairs and there is an
:44:43. > :44:48.entire cultural change we need. I think calling it party politics
:44:48. > :44:53.entire cultural change we need. I unhelpful here. How would you like
:44:53. > :45:06.family? Would you call it squeamish? prioritise. How would you feel?
:45:06. > :45:14.family? Would you call it squeamish? heard from the Francis Cock Crow
:45:14. > :45:19.review —— Francis review. The Labour leader Ed Miliband is rallying the
:45:19. > :45:25.troops at the party conference this coming week. All the West Country's
:45:25. > :45:31.Labour MPs are expected to be there, all two of them. I went to meet
:45:31. > :45:34.Labour MPs are expected to be there, and asked him how he proposed to win
:45:34. > :45:38.over the voters. We have confidence in tackling the cost of living
:45:38. > :45:40.crisis. Everything from ending the Bedroom Tax to making a difference
:45:40. > :45:45.to people's wages. Right across Bedroom Tax to making a difference
:45:45. > :45:49.board, we will show with confidence how we can make a difference to
:45:49. > :45:52.board, we will show with confidence is the biggest issues in Britain,
:45:52. > :45:56.which is the cost of living problem. Wages are depressing in this country
:45:57. > :46:01.and one of the reasons is Labour's open doors policy on immigration
:46:01. > :46:06.which has allowed millions of people in. I think immigration is an issue
:46:07. > :46:12.and we will be talking about that and how we can stop the race. Under
:46:12. > :46:24.a Labour government, I will not and how we can stop the race. Under
:46:24. > :46:29.4000 people are behind with rent because of the spare room policy.
:46:29. > :46:30.The council is considering whether they should be evicted or not. That
:46:30. > :46:37.is a matter for the council but they should be evicted or not. That
:46:37. > :46:39.can say we will end the Bedroom they should be evicted or not. That
:46:39. > :46:44.because I think it is wrong, and unfair, and it is not working as you
:46:44. > :46:52.have showed. We will close the loopholes with things like the tax
:46:52. > :46:57.cut for hedge funds. I do not want to see people evicted because of the
:46:57. > :47:02.Bedroom Tax but we are serving notice that we will end this. If you
:47:02. > :47:08.wanted to rent a room in Swindon, you will have to decide how an hammy
:47:08. > :47:16.bedrooms you can afford. Why does benefits? We are talking about
:47:17. > :47:24.people who are often disabled so we difficult circumstances. The other
:47:24. > :47:29.problem is that they are not able to go anywhere. I have met the family
:47:29. > :47:36.today who were hit by the Bedroom Tax. The daughter has cancer and a
:47:36. > :47:40.husband and wife have disabilities. The Bedroom Tax is unfair but it
:47:40. > :47:41.does not work as a policy. Councils all around the country are saying
:47:41. > :47:47.this. A councillor from Swindon all around the country are saying
:47:47. > :47:51.said that she would like you to all around the country are saying
:47:51. > :47:56.less austere and more down to earth, perhaps more academic. You always
:47:56. > :48:01.get advice as a leader and you always listen to the advice that I
:48:01. > :48:06.know how I want to lead, which is to show the British people how to
:48:06. > :48:10.tackle the issues they are facing. Most particularly, the cost of
:48:10. > :48:14.living crisis. I think what we will see from Labour this week is how we
:48:14. > :48:20.are going to do it, not just on see from Labour this week is how we
:48:20. > :48:25.you going to lighten up? I am going Bedroom Tax but other issues. Are
:48:25. > :48:28.you going to lighten up? I am going to do it my way. That is the most
:48:28. > :48:32.important winning any job, to do it your way. Thank you very much. This
:48:32. > :48:38.year's conference is being held against a backdrop of falling party
:48:38. > :48:44.membership. 50 years ago millions of people paid their party subs but
:48:44. > :48:49.these days, the numbers have fallen to record lows was not what has
:48:49. > :48:53.these days, the numbers have fallen wrong? Joining us is a political
:48:53. > :49:02.expert from Bristol University and a does it matter that people do not
:49:02. > :49:07.belong to political parties any more? Yes. It is an important part
:49:07. > :49:14.of getting across what society wants and is an opportunity for people to
:49:14. > :49:21.participate. We have seen the rate of participation declining over
:49:21. > :49:25.participate. We have seen the rate last 50 years. Give us an idea of
:49:25. > :49:31.the scale of that decline. In Stroud there were over three and a half
:49:31. > :49:38.thousand members in 1957. Taunton had 2000 members of the Labour Party
:49:38. > :49:49.in 1957. 50 years later, there are barely 150 members in Taunton. A
:49:49. > :49:54.numbers. Labour is not alone and there are similar declines in the
:49:54. > :49:57.Conservatives and in the Liberal Democrats. There are exceptions
:49:57. > :49:59.Conservatives and in the Liberal the rules, aren't there? The Greens
:49:59. > :50:04.are doing rather well, are they the rules, aren't there? The Greens
:50:04. > :50:12.Yes. We have a rapidly increasing membership and I think that is
:50:13. > :50:15.participation. Joining the Green Party means you can debate our
:50:15. > :50:20.policies and decide policies at Party means you can debate our
:50:20. > :50:25.conference. The other parties have lost members because the elites
:50:25. > :50:29.conference. The other parties have deciding on things. Letters bring in
:50:29. > :50:35.the other guests and ask them. At one time, there were 3 million
:50:35. > :50:42.Conservative members and now there are only 130 or something like
:50:42. > :50:46.is and I think it is a change in the way people see politics. People
:50:46. > :50:49.is and I think it is a change in the far more differential. As the three
:50:49. > :50:55.main parties scramble onto the centre ground, people say the bar
:50:55. > :50:59.less differences between them and it becomes more about identity. As
:50:59. > :51:05.less differences between them and it quality of living has gone up and
:51:05. > :51:12.struggling, politics becomes less a part of people's lives and people
:51:12. > :51:19.are less interested in it. Labour is less for the working class now? I
:51:19. > :51:24.think it has a different way of doing things. I think a lot of
:51:24. > :51:29.people in the past who joins the little parties are doing things
:51:29. > :51:33.people in the past who joins the different way. People are doing
:51:33. > :51:36.things that embody their Labour values but they do join us when
:51:36. > :51:43.things that embody their Labour are campaigning. We have Labour
:51:43. > :51:49.governors, but also in Bristol West, our membership is running
:51:49. > :51:56.pretty strong. This argument there is a wider participation and you
:51:56. > :52:01.don't have to belong to participate. traditional mass party where people
:52:01. > :52:07.are signing up and it is trying traditional mass party where people
:52:07. > :52:14.run a Labour's supporter modelled. But this has not generated the
:52:14. > :52:20.levels of participation they had hoped for when they launched two
:52:20. > :52:28.years ago. Going back 50 years ago, people join the Young Conservatives
:52:28. > :52:30.to prove points perhaps? I think people are fed up with mainstream
:52:30. > :52:38.politics. They say, you are all people are fed up with mainstream
:52:38. > :52:41.same and they feel out of touch people are fed up with mainstream
:52:41. > :52:46.politicians. They say, why should we get involved with you? Your members
:52:46. > :52:48.decide your policies but when Labour tried that, they're what all sorts
:52:48. > :53:00.of problems. That was some time tried that, they're what all sorts
:53:00. > :53:06.In the Labour Party, it is all about fairness for people in our country.
:53:06. > :53:12.There are different ways of looking at things and we are all part of the
:53:12. > :53:18.consultation over the last six months. I have no doubt it will
:53:18. > :53:20.consultation over the last six conference. One of the few political
:53:20. > :53:27.parties going into the conference with a swing in their step is UKIP.
:53:27. > :53:31.After success in the local elections in May, they are hoping to give
:53:31. > :53:31.After success in the local elections other parties a good kicking again
:53:31. > :53:36.in the European elections. They other parties a good kicking again
:53:36. > :53:40.not far away. Our political editor was at their conference. Here at
:53:40. > :53:44.Westminster central hall, the mood has been absolutely brilliant. They
:53:44. > :53:49.have picked up councils across the country, in Gloucestershire, Wilts
:53:49. > :53:54.and Dorset. They have more members people have joined the party. Across
:53:54. > :54:02.the country, the total is 30000 people have joined the party. Across
:54:02. > :54:06.rising. That will bring them foot soldiers in elections to come and
:54:06. > :54:12.that is important to the party as noticeable is the greater range
:54:12. > :54:14.that is important to the party as people that have joined. There are a
:54:14. > :54:20.lots more young people and that people that have joined. There are a
:54:20. > :54:28.help them enormously when they are fighting the election campaign.
:54:28. > :54:29.help them enormously when they are scrutiny of UKIP as they go into the
:54:30. > :54:33.next elections. With me is a member of the European Parliament for the
:54:33. > :54:39.south—west. Let me start on some of your policies because people say
:54:39. > :54:43.that have not been many scrutiny is so far. You pledged to cut public
:54:43. > :54:49.spending to 1997 levels but have spent more on public defence. That
:54:49. > :54:58.is curious. We went into the last election with a manifesto that was
:54:58. > :55:06.526 pages long and was longer than together. What would you cut? We
:55:06. > :55:20.have made it clear that we would leave the European union. That would
:55:20. > :55:31.save £60 million a day and reduce foreign aid. Verbally, EU regulation
:55:31. > :55:37.costs of economy 10% of GDP. That dividend could be spent in various
:55:37. > :55:46.properly have to be spent on deficit reduction. You also talked about 2
:55:46. > :55:49.million less public service workers. That was the 2010 manifesto. That
:55:49. > :55:58.was nearly four years ago. That That was the 2010 manifesto. That
:55:58. > :56:07.reviewed. No single other political party have yet published their
:56:07. > :56:11.reviewed. No single other political politically incorrect and you revel
:56:11. > :56:16.in that. One of your members use the word slut. Are you comfortable with
:56:16. > :56:22.that? I am not going to criticise colleagues but I do not know what he
:56:22. > :56:28.said, when he said it or what the context was. We are a party that
:56:28. > :56:34.basically wants to take back our democracy back from Brussels, and
:56:34. > :56:40.take back our seat on the World Trade Organisation. Lovely, thank
:56:40. > :56:45.you. We will hear plenty more about UKIP in the days to come. Thank
:56:45. > :56:49.you. We will hear plenty more about You were shaking your head through
:56:49. > :56:54.all of that but they have done tremendously well and the European
:56:54. > :56:58.elections are looking good for them. They get a lot of publicity birds
:56:58. > :57:04.they do not seem to get anyone elected. The European elections
:57:04. > :57:07.they do not seem to get anyone looking good. It is good news as far
:57:08. > :57:14.as I'm concerned. If you're going to bounce this of UKIP then that will
:57:14. > :57:19.be even better for the Green Party. If you want to explain why UKIP
:57:19. > :57:23.be even better for the Green Party. doing well, I think it is about
:57:23. > :57:26.be even better for the Green Party. live in this austere period of time
:57:26. > :57:33.and I think they are thriving on that. Why you not doing that? We're
:57:33. > :57:39.not using dirty tactics. You are worrying us about climate change and
:57:39. > :57:44.the public imagination in that way the public imagination in that way
:57:44. > :57:47.question might that is not what the public imagination in that way
:57:47. > :57:50.are trying to do. UKIP deliberately create hate figures and a trade—off
:57:50. > :57:56.against that. We are trying to look towards a more positive future and
:57:56. > :58:01.that is completely different. It is nice to have you on the programme,
:58:01. > :58:05.thank you. It is now time to spin through the political stories in 60
:58:05. > :58:11.Seconds. Plans are being made across the West ahead of a national fire
:58:11. > :58:16.strike next week. Stations are being closed for a few hours in a row
:58:16. > :58:19.strike next week. Stations are being pensions. There are more strikes
:58:19. > :58:34.planned in October, this time by teachers who are angry about this
:58:34. > :58:36.message is, why are you not in the classroom helping students to learn?
:58:36. > :58:51.The Severn estuary has a scheme classroom helping students to learn?
:58:51. > :58:56.build an energy scheme across it. First Great Western will be running
:58:56. > :58:58.most of our region's trains for another three years. The government
:58:58. > :59:04.is negotiating with the company another three years. The government
:59:04. > :59:14.passengers are not getting a good deal. Well, that was the week just
:59:14. > :59:16.teacher's protest and the threatened strikes? I understand why teachers
:59:16. > :59:23.are fed up with Michael Gove. I strikes? I understand why teachers
:59:23. > :59:31.governor for a school and we have building programmes that have been
:59:31. > :59:36.Michael Gove is doing to education is justified. That is what parents
:59:36. > :59:42.have said to me. I think Michael Gove is doing some important things.
:59:42. > :59:47.The gap between rich and poor at school is unacceptable and there has
:59:47. > :59:52.been a tendency to accept that if you are poor kid in a poor school
:59:52. > :59:57.then you do not do subjects like physics and maths. He is turning
:59:57. > :00:01.that around but for teachers, any change is difficult and I do not
:00:02. > :00:05.think strike action is right. Any change is difficult. Teachers have a
:00:05. > :00:11.hard time. Argue very much indeed. That is all we have time for. It has
:00:11. > :00:15.flown past. A big thank you to our guests, Thagnam Debbonaire and
:00:15. > :00:19.Charlotte Leslie. If you want to get in touch with your stories or ideas,
:00:19. > :00:41.my youth. The halcyon days of the 2000s, when the warring Blairite and
:00:41. > :00:44.Brownite tribes fought over who should run the Labour Party. Gordon
:00:44. > :00:46.Brown's chief spin doctor Damian should run the Labour Party. Gordon
:00:46. > :00:48.Brown's chief spin doctor Damian McBride - McPoison, or worse, to his
:00:48. > :00:57.enemies - has published his memoirs, timed for maximum impact in the
:00:57. > :00:58.enemies - has published his memoirs, of Labour's Conference. They detail
:00:59. > :01:02.how Mr McBride briefed against colleagues, brought down Cabinet
:01:02. > :01:06.Ministers, that is - and fought tooth and nail to promote the man he
:01:06. > :01:13.called "the greatest man he ever met" - Gordon Brown. Joining us
:01:13. > :01:14.called "the greatest man he ever is Tony Blair's former Director
:01:14. > :01:20.called "the greatest man he ever Communications, Alastair Campbell.
:01:20. > :01:28.You are angry about what he has Communications, Alastair Campbell.
:01:28. > :01:35.in this book. Why is that. It is partly the fact that he has done it
:01:35. > :01:38.in a way that will be -- will be damaging to the Labour Party at
:01:38. > :01:41.in a way that will be -- will be time. But also because of the lies
:01:41. > :01:51.that he told at the time that he now communications and trying to hold
:01:51. > :01:58.the thing together, build the team. There was also Charlie Whelan and
:01:58. > :02:03.others. And that job was made more difficult than it should have been.
:02:03. > :02:07.I used to challenge Gordon Brown about it. And there came a stage
:02:07. > :02:15.where I said if Whelan does not about it. And there came a stage
:02:15. > :02:20.I will go. And when Damian McBride was on the scene I was clear that I
:02:20. > :02:26.was not going to have anything to do with him. Because of what he is
:02:26. > :02:29.was not going to have anything to do admitting to, I think they played
:02:29. > :02:34.quite a significant part in pushing Labour out of power. Because the
:02:35. > :02:40.public were being fed by them, this public were being fed by them, this
:02:40. > :02:47.narrative, the whole time. That Blair was useless, Charles Clarke
:02:48. > :02:51.was useless. And I think that we where the government and had very
:02:51. > :02:58.good ministers trying to do big things for the country. I said this
:02:58. > :03:04.morning it was like being a foot tall team were on the pitch you
:03:04. > :03:07.morning it was like being a foot your own players kicking the star
:03:07. > :03:10.players. That is why I am angry about it because I think they helped
:03:10. > :03:17.usher in a conservative government. If we had all stuck together I think
:03:17. > :03:25.did not win the last election, that is a reasonable point. But surely
:03:25. > :03:30.undermine Tony Blair and to promote their man, Gordon Brown. It is
:03:30. > :03:39.inconceivable then that Gordon Brown did not know about it. Well in spite
:03:39. > :03:43.reasonably good relationship with Gordon Brown. I used to challenge
:03:43. > :03:51.him a lot about what Whelan was doing. He would always say, I will
:03:51. > :03:57.sort it out. Another thing that annoys me is this sense put forward
:03:57. > :04:03.by the right wing media that there was this sense of equivalence.
:04:03. > :04:10.People like Steve who I have known for years, there is not a single
:04:10. > :04:14.journalist with the very occasional exception where I lost my temper,
:04:14. > :04:20.who would honestly be able to tell you that I ever breathed against
:04:20. > :04:28.ministers. That was my golden rule. People say you were the forerunner.
:04:28. > :04:41.I know it was not the case. One People say you were the forerunner.
:04:41. > :04:52.the reasons why I do despise what they did, the whole spin thing which
:04:53. > :05:02.associated with, once I wrote a actually within the government,
:05:03. > :05:03.associated with, once I wrote a had a principle of maximum openness
:05:03. > :05:08.and trust. Anyone could come to had a principle of maximum openness
:05:08. > :05:14.morning meetings on condition that what was discussed their state as
:05:14. > :05:16.part of the team. I had to say to Gordon Brown, your people are not
:05:16. > :05:22.coming. Because I knew where it Gordon Brown, your people are not
:05:22. > :05:27.coming from. Did you know that the time but Charles Clarke and others
:05:27. > :05:31.were effectively being destroyed from within the Labour government? I
:05:31. > :05:39.certainly knew that they thought that. I did know journalists telling
:05:39. > :05:50.me that that was what was happening. Ultimately, this is why I never
:05:50. > :05:57.me that that was what was happening. leaders, it is ultimately up to
:05:57. > :06:01.me that that was what was happening. litre. Possibly in a different age
:06:01. > :06:04.Gordon Brown would have been an amazing Prime Minister. He was a
:06:04. > :06:11.great chancellor. But he had a flaw, this need for truly horrible
:06:11. > :06:14.people to be around him doing truly horrible things in politics and
:06:14. > :06:18.giving him and the Labour Party horrible things in politics and
:06:18. > :06:28.politics a bad name. That is why I'm still angry about Damian McBride.
:06:29. > :06:32.What do you make of it? The current administration is a contrast. We
:06:32. > :06:38.have rival factions occupying the same offices but they still get
:06:38. > :06:41.have rival factions occupying the The only time they have a row is
:06:41. > :06:44.when something really big happens. But with that one party in Downing
:06:45. > :06:50.Street there was fighting the whole time. Did Ed Balls know about this.
:06:50. > :07:03.I would assume so. I spoke with time. Did Ed Balls know about this.
:07:03. > :07:13.about it at the time. He told me at the time that he had spoken about it
:07:13. > :07:18.with Gordon Brown. So I think there was a concern from within that camp
:07:18. > :07:28.about some of these activities at equivalence, in life you expect
:07:28. > :07:28.about some of these activities at see that there is full on both
:07:28. > :07:34.sides. But I do not buy it in this see that there is full on both
:07:34. > :07:37.case. If you look at the testimonies see that there is full on both
:07:37. > :07:42.over the years, what you can surmise about the character of Gordon Brown
:07:42. > :07:48.and of Tony Blair, it was ultimately driven by Gordon Brown and the
:07:48. > :07:52.people around him. The Blairites did things but they did then by way
:07:52. > :07:56.people around him. The Blairites did retaliation rather than initiation.
:07:56. > :08:01.The one-time when I did lose it retaliation rather than initiation.
:08:01. > :08:03.the whole psychological force thing. That came at the end of a period
:08:03. > :08:09.when we were relentlessly being That came at the end of a period
:08:09. > :08:12.in by Charlie Whelan and his gang of journalists. I would go along to
:08:12. > :08:20.colleagues would be there and I journalists. I would go along to
:08:20. > :08:25.had to sit there and not hit back. Saying I cannot believe Gordon Brown
:08:25. > :08:29.would have anything to do with this. You get to the stage where your
:08:29. > :08:29.would have anything to do with this. credibility is on the line. Coming
:08:29. > :08:40.promotion of alcohol awareness. credibility is on the line. Coming
:08:40. > :08:44.before that the Labour Party, you never had to deal with this in
:08:44. > :08:48.opposition because you were pretty far ahead in the polls by midterm.
:08:48. > :08:57.This time that is not the case. far ahead in the polls by midterm.
:08:57. > :09:04.is surprisingly narrow. What advice would you give to Ed Miliband? To
:09:04. > :09:09.keep his head out side of this bubble but it's all about him. And
:09:09. > :09:16.to use this week to really speak to the British people about himself,
:09:16. > :09:23.particularly the kind of policy agenda he is shaping for the future.
:09:23. > :09:28.And start to heart -- start to hit the Tories hard. They're not pop,
:09:28. > :09:34.they're not competent. They're screwing up the health service.
:09:34. > :09:36.they're not competent. They're yet they are neck and neck. I would
:09:36. > :09:43.say that the whole Shadow Cabinet understand that you win elections by
:09:43. > :09:50.wanting to win elections every minute of every day. There is too
:09:50. > :09:55.much complacency. A small lead now you have to grow that. You do that
:09:55. > :10:04.with energy and conviction and policy. Tony Blair had a huge pole
:10:04. > :10:11.bead in the run-up to 1997. We were winning seat where we had not even
:10:11. > :10:13.campaigned and he was saying, why celebrate because we have not won
:10:13. > :10:17.yet. You are promoting your alcohol celebrate because we have not won
:10:17. > :10:19.yet. You are promoting your alcohol awareness campaign. Perhaps the
:10:19. > :10:28.party conference is not the best place to do that! That is one reason
:10:28. > :10:34.why I am doing that. I'm hosting probably the only alcohol free
:10:34. > :10:42.reception of the week! There is nothing worse than a convert, I
:10:42. > :10:47.reception of the week! There is that. But I travel a lot. I travel
:10:47. > :10:57.around the world and Britain has a something we should be ashamed of.
:10:57. > :11:04.Why is that, is it cultural? I think it is historical. But I dig David
:11:04. > :11:16.Cameron was right to go for minimum unit pricing and wrong to do a
:11:17. > :11:19.reversal. 6% of alcoholics get treatment. I expect that drugs are a
:11:19. > :11:26.problem but we spent £2 billion treatment. I expect that drugs are a
:11:26. > :11:28.100,000 problem drug takers and treatment. I expect that drugs are a
:11:28. > :11:41.million on 1.6 million problem have written this book about a young
:11:41. > :11:45.million on 1.6 million problem alcoholic, a teenager. And it is in
:11:45. > :11:49.the first person. People could think you are writing about yourself.
:11:49. > :11:56.did you choose a teenage girl? Well did you choose a teenage girl? Well
:11:56. > :12:06.partly, I dedicated this to the Southampton. He told me when he
:12:06. > :12:13.started his career that his patience was split nine to one, men to women
:12:13. > :12:21.and it is now 50 - 50. They're getting younger and younger. One
:12:21. > :12:27.doctor looking after me said I will take you around this hospital and
:12:27. > :12:33.the problems of alcohol are in every single ward. Not just accident and
:12:34. > :12:41.emergency. I watched the foot all, advertisements for gambling and
:12:41. > :12:52.advertising. How have we allowed this to happen, ? We are just awash
:12:52. > :12:59.with it. What we did I think on Availability and price either too
:12:59. > :13:05.means by which you can bring this down. And the country that has had
:13:05. > :13:17.the biggest success on this is Russia, bizarrely. Thank you very
:13:17. > :13:23.much for that. That's all for today. Thanks to all our guests. I'll be
:13:23. > :13:26.with live coverage of Labour Party Conference, including the speech
:13:26. > :13:27.from the man who wants to be the next Chancellor, Ed Balls. Remember