:00:40. > :00:46.Morning, folks, welcome to the Sunday Politics. And in-out EU
:00:46. > :00:51.election? We talk to the Tory rebel demanding one next year, that is our
:00:51. > :00:54.top story. As government ministers prepare to decide how the press
:00:54. > :01:05.should be regulated, what will be You are talking about the colour of
:01:05. > :02:01.In the West, cheap booze and binge drinking. It causes mayhem late
:02:01. > :02:07.He will try to force a vote in the October. Home Secretary Theresa
:02:07. > :02:10.He will try to force a vote in the was asked about his plans on the BBC
:02:10. > :02:18.earlier this morning. I think he has got it wrong, I think what we need
:02:18. > :02:22.to do is to negotiate the settlement with the European Union and then put
:02:22. > :02:29.that to the people me to decide whether to be in or out. Is this a
:02:29. > :02:37.flea bite or a real threat? I think the next election, a Conservative
:02:37. > :02:40.Party that will be offering people that renegotiation, a new settlement
:02:40. > :02:46.with Europe, looking to the future and putting that to the British
:02:46. > :02:47.people in and in or out referendum. And what the amendment possibly
:02:47. > :02:51.could do, as James Wharton, who And what the amendment possibly
:02:51. > :02:56.putting the Referendum Bill through Parliament has said, is it could
:02:56. > :03:02.jeopardise that bill. Adam Afriyie joins us now from Millbank studio.
:03:02. > :03:05.Good morning. If the referendum would be held next October, it would
:03:05. > :03:13.have to be an in-out question based the status quo? There wouldn't be
:03:13. > :03:17.time for a full renegotiation. I disagree. By having a referendum in
:03:18. > :03:21.2014, it gives us 12 months to renegotiate, but it kick-started
:03:21. > :03:24.negotiations, because the European Union, if they wish us to remain
:03:24. > :03:27.and make changes so that they would members, would need to accommodate
:03:27. > :03:32.and make changes so that they would persuade the British public to stay,
:03:32. > :03:36.strengthens the Prime Minister's hand, and 12 months is ample time
:03:36. > :03:40.for that kind of negotiation. You might think that, but Germany has
:03:40. > :03:44.not even got a government at the moment, why should they meet our
:03:44. > :03:45.timetable? This is going to be incredibly, located renegotiation. I
:03:45. > :03:52.think, basically, 80% of people incredibly, located renegotiation. I
:03:52. > :03:57.a referendum. More than 50% what a election. British businesses need
:03:57. > :03:58.certainty, and we could carry on taking a scan down the road for
:03:58. > :04:02.ever, but I have struggled with taking a scan down the road for
:04:02. > :04:06.conscience over this one. I do not want to cause trouble, but it is
:04:06. > :04:09.essential that Parliament and MPs have the opportunity to search their
:04:09. > :04:12.souls and give people a referendum this side of the election. That
:04:12. > :04:18.would also bring certainty and clarity for the future, and like I
:04:18. > :04:20.said, it strengthens the Prime Minister's hand if it is successful.
:04:20. > :04:24.You right in the Mail on Sunday Minister's hand if it is successful.
:04:24. > :04:28.the people are not convinced there even will be a referendum, so they
:04:28. > :04:32.don't trust David Cameron? I think the headline was not the headline I
:04:32. > :04:39.wrote for that piece. What I am You are saying that the British
:04:39. > :04:42.people are not convinced. Look, there are too many uncertainties
:04:42. > :04:46.here - they may not be convinced the Conservatives will win the election,
:04:46. > :04:47.I hope we will, they may not be convinced the renegotiation will be
:04:47. > :04:52.good enough, that there will be convinced the renegotiation will be
:04:52. > :04:58.referendum. Do you trust David That is why we need to bring the
:04:58. > :05:02.referendum forward, there is time to negotiate, and we tidy up the issue
:05:02. > :05:07.that has been hanging around for too long. Do you trust David Cameron to
:05:07. > :05:16.deliver a referendum in 2017? I Minister, and of course I trust
:05:16. > :05:16.deliver a referendum in 2017? I referendum? There as only variables
:05:16. > :05:21.in between. What I am doing with referendum? There as only variables
:05:21. > :05:23.this amendment, is to try to be referendum? There as only variables
:05:23. > :05:25.is that Parliament and every MP referendum? There as only variables
:05:25. > :05:28.the opportunity decide whether they want to be sure of a referendum
:05:29. > :05:33.within this parliament, or maybe leave it to the vagaries of what may
:05:33. > :05:37.within this parliament, or maybe happen in 2015. Supposing you got
:05:37. > :05:39.your way, how would you vote? Like Michael Gove, I would vote for us to
:05:39. > :05:42.leave as of today, but there will be Michael Gove, I would vote for us to
:05:42. > :05:44.an enormous amount of pressure on European Union leaders to come
:05:44. > :05:48.forward with proposals. If they European Union leaders to come
:05:48. > :05:50.to say, the mandate is not ever closer political union, it is ever
:05:50. > :05:55.closer trading harmony, giving us closer trading harmony, giving us
:05:55. > :05:57.more border control and control closer trading harmony, giving us
:05:57. > :06:00.our legal system, I might change my mind. But this is what needs to
:06:00. > :06:05.happen - if we have a referendum in happen - if we have a referendum in
:06:05. > :06:08.negotiations to be kick-started happen - if we have a referendum in
:06:08. > :06:11.people to argue in or out, and the end result is a stronger Prime
:06:11. > :06:14.Minister. Is it true that you have end result is a stronger Prime
:06:14. > :06:20.Minister. Is it true that you have got about 80 MPs supporting this? It
:06:20. > :06:24.certain, and I think we will see it on hold over the next three or five
:06:24. > :06:29.weeks. He will have to ask each individual MP. I am asking you,
:06:29. > :06:35.is your motion! There will be other motions coming forward, and I know
:06:36. > :06:40.cross-party, for people who want the British public to have a say in
:06:40. > :06:45.2014. You know it is not going to get through, the whips will stop
:06:45. > :06:48.this from happening. One of the successes, apparently, of your
:06:49. > :06:51.party's Manchester conference was that you were not divided over
:06:51. > :06:55.Europe anymore, the Europe issue was settled. Here you are bringing it
:06:55. > :06:59.Europe anymore, the Europe issue was back to life and pouring petrol
:06:59. > :07:03.Europe anymore, the Europe issue was unlicensed troublemaker of the
:07:03. > :07:06.Tories? The only struggle I have had is not a fight with my party but
:07:06. > :07:06.Tories? The only struggle I have had with my conscience as to whether or
:07:06. > :07:10.not I would give Parliament and with my conscience as to whether or
:07:10. > :07:15.British people an opportunity to have a say in 2014. I wrestled with
:07:15. > :07:19.it, and I decided I wanted people to have that opportunity. It is for
:07:19. > :07:22.each individual MP to search their soul, speak to constituents and
:07:22. > :07:27.decide whether they want that. You decided it would get you in the
:07:27. > :07:29.headlines again. Oh, you are so cynical, Andrew! I have no ambition
:07:29. > :07:37.publicity seeker. All I seek is cynical, Andrew! I have no ambition
:07:37. > :07:39.would not be able to sleep at night if I did not bring forward this
:07:39. > :07:44.opportunity for Britain to have if I did not bring forward this
:07:44. > :07:48.say. We have left it far too long. Nobody under the age of 56 has had a
:07:48. > :07:52.say. Thanks for joining us, good luck with this continuing struggle
:07:52. > :07:56.with your conscience! I will move the seat around and addressed the
:07:56. > :07:57.panel, what do you make of it? The party managers must be furious with
:07:57. > :08:02.him. I think what this confirms party managers must be furious with
:08:02. > :08:09.that David Cameron is incredibly lucky in his enemies. His most
:08:09. > :08:13.prolific critics, Nadine Dorries, Peter Bone, Adam Afriyie, even if
:08:13. > :08:18.you are very anti-Cameron, you will not think, man, if only they were in
:08:18. > :08:23.charge of the party! I think the party managers are not too alarmed.
:08:23. > :08:29.They do not take him seriously? No, is not as if the James Wharton bill
:08:29. > :08:33.is a work of genius, it is riddled with flaws, anomalies and loopholes.
:08:33. > :08:36.It purports to guarantee that a referendum will take place in the
:08:37. > :08:39.next Parliament. My understanding of theoretically impossible and that
:08:39. > :08:42.all the future government would theoretically impossible and that
:08:42. > :08:45.is cancel out that bill with another bill. He does have a point that
:08:45. > :08:51.Cameron's plan for a referendum bill. He does have a point that
:08:51. > :08:59.nothing like as likely to happen... dangerous. The problem for David
:08:59. > :09:04.Cameron is twofold. One, if Ed Miliband says he's going to support
:09:04. > :09:07.Adam Afriyie, it will go through. Unlikely that Ed Miliband would
:09:07. > :09:10.Adam Afriyie, it will go through. that, but what he might do is say to
:09:10. > :09:15.his MPs, ignore this. It may well be significant number of Labour MPs do
:09:15. > :09:22.not turn up, and then what you have Conservative backbenchers, and in
:09:22. > :09:28.that war you might well find that through, and then the Prime Minister
:09:28. > :09:35.has real trouble, because Adam Afriyie says, the Prime Minister
:09:35. > :09:39.membership, up what basis and with which mandate? He would not be able
:09:39. > :09:41.to get agreement with Nick Clegg or Ed Miliband, so you would be looking
:09:41. > :09:49.think he is a Labour mole, that Ed Miliband, so you would be looking
:09:49. > :09:50.what I have come to, a Daily Mail style conspiracy theory, it could
:09:50. > :09:55.not be more perfect. The prospect of style conspiracy theory, it could
:09:55. > :10:01.a referendum on the EU at the same time as Scottish independence is
:10:01. > :10:08.has told us he could not sleep at conscience. We could send him some
:10:08. > :10:11.pills, I suppose. We know he's going to sack all those lieutenants were
:10:11. > :10:16.going around and saying he is the great future and the next leader of
:10:16. > :10:21.the Conservative Party. He denied doing that! He would be amazed to
:10:21. > :10:26.hear you say that, this is a crisis conversations in corridors, quite an
:10:27. > :10:31.operation to get letters into Graham Brady, he said to have letters,
:10:31. > :10:34.operation to get letters into Graham 46, but at the moment this campaign
:10:34. > :10:43.is being run by Lieutenant of Adam They are disaffected and not happy
:10:43. > :10:49.under David Cameron's leadership. There is a whole army of them! I am
:10:49. > :10:51.pleased he has outmanoeuvred the awkward squad, and now James Wharton
:10:51. > :10:58.is saying, you're going to kill awkward squad, and now James Wharton
:10:58. > :11:03.bill. I do not think they are very competence lieutenants. The main
:11:03. > :11:08.episode is it will unify a large Conservative Party behind David
:11:08. > :11:13.Cameron. On what they hope is a settled position. We still hope
:11:13. > :11:16.Cameron. On what they hope is a be talking to John Prescott, who is
:11:16. > :11:21.in hole, if you see him, pointing in the direction of the BBC studios! Do
:11:21. > :11:26.you want to buy a house? Can you afford the mortgage repayments but
:11:26. > :11:27.not the 20% or 30% deposit the mortgage provider is demanding from
:11:28. > :11:31.you? The Government says it has mortgage provider is demanding from
:11:31. > :11:38.scheme designed for you which is in launching next week, help to buy,
:11:38. > :11:43.re-emergence of 95% mortgages, remember them?! But is the policy
:11:43. > :11:45.really good for home-buyers or the British economy? Here is Giles.
:11:45. > :11:50.Never mind who lives in a house British economy? Here is Giles.
:11:50. > :11:53.this, who can afford to buy a house these days? The Government would
:11:53. > :11:53.this, who can afford to buy a house like many more people to be able to
:11:53. > :11:56.without putting down a crippling like many more people to be able to
:11:56. > :11:58.without putting down a crippling amount of money as a deposit, and in
:11:58. > :12:03.the spirit of rights to buy, the government has launched help to
:12:03. > :12:04.the spirit of rights to buy, the confusingly it is the name for two
:12:04. > :12:25.been running since April. Help to government are bringing it in early.
:12:25. > :12:29.Let's get in on the inside and take a good look around at what this
:12:29. > :12:34.scheme actually has to offer. And why the Government thinks it really
:12:34. > :12:40.works. Help to Buy 1 was an equity loan scheme. The idea, nice, is
:12:40. > :12:40.works. Help to Buy 1 was an equity it was for new build only, up to a
:12:40. > :12:47.value of £600,000. But it is Help to value of £600,000. But it is Help to
:12:47. > :12:50.Buy 2 that everyone is looking into right now. It is for any property up
:12:51. > :12:58.to a value, again, of £600,000. right now. It is for any property up
:12:58. > :13:00.time the Government is guaranteeing that it will take on the first
:13:00. > :13:03.losses should the home owner in that it will take on the first
:13:03. > :13:08.future failed to make their mortgage payments. Don't worry about that, if
:13:08. > :13:12.you are a buyer, you are going to be concerned about coming up with the
:13:12. > :13:18.5% deposit and 95% mortgages will be available again in participating
:13:18. > :13:26.banks and building societies. And a housing prime mover. You cannot
:13:26. > :13:30.get training to 5% mortgage anymore, 90% even, so there are couples in
:13:30. > :13:33.our country who have good jobs, decent incomes, they could afford
:13:33. > :13:41.the mortgage payments but they failure in our banking market. So
:13:41. > :13:44.Jonathan, but I guess for you this is not Homes Under The Hammer, but a
:13:44. > :13:50.main impact of this scheme will is not Homes Under The Hammer, but a
:13:50. > :13:54.to push up prices, who does that benefit? Mostly rich and all the
:13:54. > :13:59.people who own their houses. Plus the banks, of course, because it is
:13:59. > :14:03.a subsidy for them. Who loses? People who want to buy a house in
:14:03. > :14:09.the future. Moreover, it is a bit odd that the Government says it
:14:09. > :14:11.the future. Moreover, it is a bit not OK to borrow to finance schools
:14:11. > :14:23.or roads, but it is fine for the effectively, in order to guarantee
:14:23. > :14:27.housing market. 2.3 million? I do not think Help to Buy covers that.
:14:27. > :14:33.But enter a would-be buyer, will they now be seeing a plethora of
:14:34. > :14:41.help to buy mortgages? In a word, no. David Cameron has brought the
:14:41. > :14:45.months, and banks were not ready at that stage. Two banks have committed
:14:45. > :14:49.to fund the scheme, the Lloyds group and the RBS group, so lenders like
:14:49. > :14:53.Halifax, RBS and NatWest. They will be doing the scheme, but even once
:14:53. > :15:00.the scheme is up and running you are probably find 95% mortgages on the
:15:00. > :15:09.high street because of the guarantee the government is offering. People
:15:09. > :15:14.might say this is how we got into a mess in the first place. Why would
:15:14. > :15:20.the government want to make those products available then now? It
:15:20. > :15:22.the government want to make those more what investment banks were
:15:22. > :15:28.doing in the background that caused performed extremely well through the
:15:28. > :15:35.depths of the downturn. Is this performed extremely well through the
:15:35. > :15:37.game changer? Yes, I have done my best to save over the last few years
:15:37. > :15:42.but this has enabled me to make best to save over the last few years
:15:42. > :15:47.first purchase. How frustrating best to save over the last few years
:15:47. > :15:52.it just renting? Very frustrating, you are throwing away money hand
:15:52. > :16:00.over fist, and now I can take that enthusiasm raises a question back at
:16:00. > :16:07.the flat. If you are looking for a 95% mortgage, you don't really care
:16:07. > :16:14.economy, you are thinking, great, I can buy a house. Yes, if I was a
:16:14. > :16:21.house buyer or a bank, I would be pleased, but it will do longer term
:16:21. > :16:25.economic damage. The tricky steps the government are trying to pull
:16:25. > :16:31.off is that home-buyers might be so grateful for the opportunity to
:16:31. > :16:32.off is that home-buyers might be so their own homes that they reward the
:16:32. > :16:35.Government with the vote, while their own homes that they reward the
:16:35. > :16:51.the same time the Government tries to sidestep consequences that such a
:16:51. > :16:57.Now Conservative MP Margot James, and Allister Heath, editor of City
:16:57. > :17:03.It is said by the critics that this scheme will cause a housing bubble.
:17:03. > :17:17.Where is the evidence? House prices are more varied. Housing not just in
:17:17. > :17:22.London remains overvalued and the problem with this scheme is that it
:17:22. > :17:30.will pump up house prices, it will therefore houses will become even
:17:30. > :17:34.more overvalued. That is a dangerous territory, last time it ended in
:17:34. > :17:42.tears, and now the Government is taking on the risk of that policy.
:17:42. > :17:44.What do you say to that? We have a real problem, it takes people on
:17:44. > :17:55.average until they are 38 years real problem, it takes people on
:17:55. > :17:59.property. The problem is not that they cannot afford it, but they
:17:59. > :18:03.cannot afford the deposit. We have got to do something to allow people
:18:03. > :18:07.to get their feet on the property ladder and I don't agree it will
:18:07. > :18:23.cause a boom in house prices. It would if we were not building any
:18:23. > :18:33.have had a record this year, 12 months to right now, the record
:18:33. > :18:33.have had a record this year, 12 the last ten years. These are not
:18:33. > :18:40.the statistics I have seen, but the last ten years. These are not
:18:40. > :18:46.new supply is coming up. It is starting to creep up. We don't see
:18:46. > :18:50.enough house building, need to build more houses and that is a solution
:18:50. > :18:54.to this problem. You are right, people cannot afford to buy homes
:18:54. > :18:59.and the reason is there are not enough good quality homes in the
:18:59. > :19:04.deposits are so high is because secondly the Government has passed
:19:04. > :19:07.laws to make the banking system secondly the Government has passed
:19:07. > :19:15.prudent, telling them to put more wrong. Now suddenly the Government
:19:15. > :19:19.is not happy with the outcome of its own rules and is trying to create
:19:19. > :19:26.these subsidies to circumvent the rules it has put in place. It is not
:19:26. > :19:32.a subsidy. Don't forget banks have to pay a charge in order to take
:19:32. > :19:38.part in this loan scheme and that the... You are guaranteeing the
:19:39. > :19:42.money. Yes, but the fear is worked out on a commercial basis. The
:19:42. > :19:48.taxpayer is protected. Why? You out on a commercial basis. The
:19:48. > :19:54.guaranteeing £12 billion worth of mortgages per year. Yes but the
:19:54. > :19:59.change in the whole mortgage basis has been made a few years ago in
:19:59. > :20:03.response of the crash. They made the distressed test on people applying
:20:03. > :20:13.for mortgages much higher and you twice... So it will not be like
:20:13. > :20:19.these self certification mortgages handed out in America that caused
:20:19. > :20:24.the sub-prime crisis? Pigment bit like that but the banks are rightly
:20:24. > :20:28.asking for bigger deposits, they know there is a big chance house
:20:28. > :20:33.prices could fall if interest rates eventually, so they are demanding
:20:33. > :20:38.bigger deposits. The Government eventually, so they are demanding
:20:38. > :20:41.circumventing this is being passed eventually, so they are demanding
:20:41. > :20:46.on to the taxpayers which is why it is a dangerous policy. Instead they
:20:46. > :20:54.should be massively accelerating Planning permission is much easier
:20:54. > :20:58.to get now, we have seen a 49% increase in planning permission
:20:58. > :20:58.to get now, we have seen a 49% a new building over the last year, a
:20:58. > :21:05.huge increase. In the figures I a new building over the last year, a
:21:05. > :21:08.recently, they showed new start a new building over the last year, a
:21:08. > :21:12.the 12 months to the autumn were only about 110,000 which is the
:21:12. > :21:17.figure you inherited, which was only about 110,000 which is the
:21:17. > :21:23.an all-time low in 2010. New house built in the last quarter are third
:21:23. > :21:29.up on the time last year. You have relaxation of planning laws and
:21:29. > :21:30.up on the time last year. You have other policies the Government put
:21:30. > :21:36.into effect last year to take effect and it is coming through now. I
:21:36. > :21:42.agree, if we weren't building more houses, if the construction sector
:21:42. > :21:48.advantage of the increased demand, there would be a risk. David Cameron
:21:48. > :21:57.says you are snob and it is only snobs who dislike Help To Buy. They
:21:57. > :22:03.don't have the bank of mum and dad, people like that will finally get on
:22:03. > :22:07.the housing ladder. That is complete nonsense. We need a sustainable
:22:07. > :22:11.housing market where there is a large amount of construction, like
:22:11. > :22:19.in the 1930s for example, where large numbers of proper family homes
:22:19. > :22:25.were being built for people. House prices were pushed down and people
:22:25. > :22:29.could afford houses. You are now encouraging people to take out a 95%
:22:29. > :22:38.mortgage, I thought that was a bad idea, so supposing interest rates go
:22:38. > :22:44.struggle, and supposing house prices fall by more than 5%, I am now faced
:22:44. > :22:49.with negative equity and soaring interest rates that I cannot afford.
:22:49. > :22:54.95% mortgage, if you can afford interest rates that I cannot afford.
:22:54. > :23:00.repayments, you will be fine. What happens when interest rates rise?
:23:00. > :23:03.They have got to rise a lot before you get into trouble. People are
:23:03. > :23:08.already affording rent which is you get into trouble. People are
:23:08. > :23:15.lot higher than mortgage payments. You will not be able to get into
:23:15. > :23:20.this scheme unless you can afford repayments double what they are
:23:20. > :23:24.this scheme unless you can afford the moment. The Conservatives should
:23:24. > :23:30.limelight last week but there was an unwelcome intruder in the shape
:23:30. > :23:32.limelight last week but there was an row between Ed Miliband and the
:23:32. > :23:40.Daily Mail. Just over a week ago the claiming that Ed Miliband's Father
:23:40. > :23:47.Ralph hated Britain. They showed a picture of his father's gravestone
:23:47. > :23:52.with the caption, grave socialist. They then removed the photo and
:23:52. > :23:56.with the caption, grave socialist. Ed Miliband the right to reply on
:23:56. > :24:00.printed an editorial alongside it saying they stood by every word
:24:00. > :24:06.printed an editorial alongside it published an fair headline. It also
:24:06. > :24:11.reporter had gate-crashed a private memorial service for Ed Miliband's
:24:11. > :24:15.uncle in a London hospital, for which the paper has now apologised,
:24:15. > :24:23.but Ed Miliband has called on the hard look at the way his papers
:24:23. > :24:31.but Ed Miliband has called on the run. This comes a week before a
:24:31. > :24:31.but Ed Miliband has called on the Joining us now from Hull, John
:24:31. > :24:42.Prescott. Does this row between Joining us now from Hull, John
:24:42. > :24:49.reinforce the case for tough, new certainly influences the opinion
:24:49. > :24:53.about that but that is more of Paul Dacre's doing. Ed Miliband rang
:24:53. > :24:54.about that but that is more of Paul while I was in Strasbourg making
:24:54. > :24:59.sure my complaints were nothing while I was in Strasbourg making
:24:59. > :25:04.do with press regulation and he while I was in Strasbourg making
:25:04. > :25:07.right. This argument is not about politicians and media people, it is
:25:07. > :25:15.about ordinary people that love politicians and media people, it is
:25:15. > :25:21.and dealt with. All of these cases affected individual people and they
:25:21. > :25:26.are the ones that need to have justice in this matter. Next week we
:25:26. > :25:33.will be hearing whether the Privy Council will be reporting on the
:25:33. > :25:49.proposal to replace it. Are you agreeing then that what the mail did
:25:49. > :26:02.with its Miliband article was a matter of judgement? Yes, and the
:26:02. > :26:04.with its Miliband article was a conclusion that the relationship
:26:04. > :26:13.between the press, the police and politicians should be governed,
:26:13. > :26:18.between the press, the police and proposal given by half the press
:26:18. > :26:22.industry that that does not meet the Leveson requirement and I suspect
:26:22. > :26:26.the Privy Council this week will have to reject that, and I hope
:26:26. > :26:28.the Privy Council this week will will because it is not consistent
:26:28. > :26:34.with the Leveson report which the Prime Minister said he supported.
:26:34. > :26:40.You attacked the mail in your column today but your paper went through
:26:40. > :26:45.the Cameron family bins to see what nappies they used for their disabled
:26:45. > :26:46.son. Isn't that far more offensive than what the Daily Mail wrote about
:26:46. > :26:56.Ralph Miliband? It probably is, than what the Daily Mail wrote about
:26:56. > :27:09.couldn't defend that. I have had Haven't we all? Yes, but we are
:27:09. > :27:23.editors who acts unilaterally. Paul Dacre is running this thing in the
:27:23. > :27:32.judgement and some accountability which the press have accepted the
:27:33. > :27:36.old PCC is no good. They are playing for time because if they reject
:27:37. > :27:39.old PCC is no good. They are playing this week there is 12 months until
:27:40. > :27:43.you can consider a parliamentary alternative and then you are near
:27:43. > :27:48.the election and you begin to bully the leaders. That is how they have
:27:48. > :27:57.been successful in putting off recommendations. Maybe my memory is
:27:58. > :28:04.fading but did you or anybody else in the Labour Party object to the
:28:04. > :28:08.Sunday Mirror's behaviour? I didn't know about it. I would just say
:28:08. > :28:11.Sunday Mirror's behaviour? I didn't is wrong if that is what they did.
:28:11. > :28:17.As you said, you have the same position when they go through your
:28:17. > :28:21.rubbish bins, I think that is wrong. We have Leveson set up by the Prime
:28:21. > :28:24.Minister to look at the cultures and practices and the unilateral action
:28:24. > :28:39.of editors and he came forward with Parliament under a compromise of the
:28:39. > :28:44.frankly, but we have agreed to go frankly, but we have agreed to go
:28:44. > :28:51.Government set up in charge at the same time rushed through the press
:28:51. > :28:58.box? It looks like a fix, like they are using the Royal Charter as a
:28:58. > :29:02.means of delaying everything. They have now said they are going to
:29:02. > :29:08.introduce their own independent charter. This industry does not
:29:08. > :29:08.introduce their own independent accountability. We know Alistair
:29:08. > :29:13.Campbell and Ed Miliband's officers accountability. We know Alistair
:29:13. > :29:24.are working closely on the assault of the Mail. What is the endgame for
:29:24. > :29:39.this? Is it the head of Paul Dacre? He is not an acceptable character to
:29:39. > :29:44.account. When Ed Miliband rang me it regulation, he wanted the argument
:29:44. > :29:57.of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband regulation, he wanted the argument
:29:57. > :29:59.of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband after Paul Dacre's head? No, he
:29:59. > :30:01.of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband stay there. It is like with Murdoch,
:30:01. > :30:06.of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband we were not attacking him but what
:30:06. > :30:12.extent, what they are doing about politicians who can look after
:30:12. > :30:16.themselves. We know, with the bad cases he had to deal with, they
:30:16. > :30:19.might get libel action, which the press say, but they pretty well
:30:19. > :30:25.destroyed their lives. That is about judgment. If you say, as Paul Dacre
:30:25. > :30:32.got good judgment? I would say no, Thank you for joining us, he did not
:30:32. > :30:35.even have to go to the BBC studios, we sent a truck there for him. What
:30:35. > :30:41.is the endgame in this? Whether we sent a truck there for him. What
:30:41. > :30:45.Labour Party is trying to make this an issue press regulation are not,
:30:45. > :30:48.this is where it is going. We have the criminal trial involving Andy
:30:48. > :30:52.Coulson coming up, the Privy Council discussing press radiation before
:30:52. > :30:58.question is, what is political unfashionable view, is that the
:30:58. > :31:11.total at yum elated political impact of the Leveson story over the past
:31:11. > :31:14.those who do care believe that all parties are roughly complicit in
:31:14. > :31:19.being too close to editors and proprietors. You said that Adam
:31:19. > :31:26.Afriyie was a Labour mould, with a smile. Is the Daily Mail also a
:31:26. > :31:29.Labour mole? This has been a dream for Ed Miliband, I took on Murdoch,
:31:29. > :31:34.I am taking on the energy companies and now the evil Daily Mail! I
:31:34. > :31:38.think... I should say I used to and now the evil Daily Mail! I
:31:38. > :31:42.for the Daily Mail, but when they printed the right of reply, they
:31:42. > :31:46.surrounded it with a big two fingers up at Ed. If they had not done
:31:46. > :31:49.surrounded it with a big two fingers that, they would not be in this
:31:49. > :31:52.position. The poll in the Sunday Times this morning shows 72% think
:31:52. > :31:58.the Daily Mail was wrong and backed Mr Miliband's demand for an apology.
:31:58. > :32:01.If you come to define and your dad, people are naturally going to do
:32:01. > :32:05.this, but it took all the coverage away from the Tory conference, the
:32:05. > :32:12.media loves covering itself, here we are doing it again, this has been a
:32:12. > :32:15.dream for Mr Miliband. The political significance of this is that David
:32:15. > :32:18.Cameron said in the House of Commons that he wanted to try to find some
:32:18. > :32:26.common ground between the three so-called press industry version.
:32:26. > :32:30.What the Daily Mail has done is ensured that the Prime Minister
:32:30. > :32:32.What the Daily Mail has done is What is going to happen this week is
:32:32. > :32:36.that the press Royal Charter has to be considered first, and that will
:32:36. > :32:43.probably be rejected. The Privy Council will reject it. Then the
:32:43. > :32:48.three party Royal Charter will come up, but meanwhile the press will set
:32:48. > :32:51.up their own regulatory body because the Royal Charter is not a proper
:32:51. > :32:55.statutory underpinning, they will be able to go ahead with that. There
:32:55. > :33:06.statutory underpinning, they will be will be the legal basis for the
:33:06. > :33:10.resolved. As you say, no-one much cares about this outside of the
:33:10. > :33:25.profession and a few media watchers. But this has been great politics for
:33:25. > :33:29.victory. I take your view that people are cynical about it. But the
:33:29. > :33:33.narrative is, I am the chap who stands up to vested interests. But
:33:33. > :33:35.all those vested interests are people that you would expect a
:33:35. > :33:41.left-wing politician to want to people that you would expect a
:33:41. > :33:46.on. It is also more significant about who he has stood up for, and
:33:46. > :33:49.the person he has studied for is his father. Maybe people thought of
:33:49. > :33:53.the person he has studied for is his as a Marxist, now they think of
:33:53. > :33:56.the person he has studied for is his as war hero. He gets to the crux of
:33:56. > :34:01.matters, you know! You are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in
:34:01. > :34:19.Thank you Andrew and welcome to On the programme this week: The
:34:19. > :34:23.Government scrapped their plans On the programme this week: The
:34:23. > :34:25.a minimum price for booze, but could local politicians do it anyway?
:34:25. > :34:28.Binge drinking blights many high streets, so could local councils ban
:34:28. > :34:34.super—strength cheap alcohol from being sold in off—licenses and pubs?
:34:34. > :34:40.Precious few refreshments in our studio this morning — just a couple
:34:40. > :34:44.has been passed by the management. Welcome to Cold Comfort Farm to
:34:44. > :34:52.has been passed by the management. two guests this morning. They are
:34:52. > :34:56.Bristol. And Labour's Clare Moody. Nice to see you both. First of all,
:34:56. > :35:06.let's talk about the grommet auction was delighted not to win one because
:35:07. > :35:10.I was prepared to bid. The great thing is they went for twice as
:35:10. > :35:14.I was prepared to bid. The great as I expected. That is good for
:35:14. > :35:21.Children's Hospital. It is great for politics into it, is it right that
:35:22. > :35:29.there needs to be charity auctions to raise money for the NHS? There
:35:29. > :35:33.have always been fundraisers for hospitals, for specific bits of
:35:33. > :35:35.equipment. But I think the broader question about the funding of the
:35:35. > :35:43.NHS is a very live one in terms question about the funding of the
:35:44. > :35:47.the cost to the NHS of the top ten reorganisation that has happened
:35:47. > :35:54.since the election. And also the way that the money is being used in
:35:54. > :35:54.since the election. And also the way NHS. I was really encouraged by
:35:54. > :35:58.that. They have often said that NHS. I was really encouraged by
:35:58. > :36:01.you can sell it in Bristol, you NHS. I was really encouraged by
:36:01. > :36:04.sell it anywhere. Bristol has got a lot more generous and I think it is
:36:04. > :36:08.showing a sign that everyone is feeling more upbeat. We have a
:36:08. > :36:13.reputation for being tight. It is Now this was the week that Boris
:36:13. > :36:17.Johnson didn't know the price of milk and David Cameron couldn't
:36:17. > :36:20.remember the cost of a loaf of bread. But we all know that alcohol
:36:20. > :36:22.is cheap in supermarkets and very tempting to people who can't resist
:36:22. > :36:25.it. The social cost is huge, so tempting to people who can't resist
:36:25. > :36:30.it time that local authorities We'll discuss that later, but first,
:36:30. > :36:37.here's our health correspondent Andy Farlow has just woken up. He is
:36:37. > :36:40.already hitting the bottle. Doctors have told him if he doesn't stop
:36:41. > :36:47.drinking up to ten metres of cider day he could die. I need to do
:36:47. > :36:52.something. I am 49 years old. I don't get sorted out now, I will be
:36:52. > :36:54.dead. He has been admitted to the only NHS funded hospital in Bristol
:36:54. > :37:00.which has a dedicated inpatient only NHS funded hospital in Bristol
:37:00. > :37:05.for alcohol detox. It is because of an epidemic of patients like Andy
:37:05. > :37:07.that the Government decided two years ago to set a minimum price for
:37:07. > :37:12.alcohol in England and Wales of years ago to set a minimum price for
:37:12. > :37:17.per unit. Had this been in place years ago, it would have cost Andy
:37:17. > :37:24.around £120 a week more to pay for his habit. Crime and Courts Bill
:37:24. > :37:29.especially when I was younger —— especially when I was younger, I had
:37:29. > :37:39.very limited money. I couldn't have afforded it. It would have had a
:37:39. > :37:47.substantial effect. There should be increased significantly. In the
:37:47. > :37:50.light of his U—turn on alcohol pricing, can the Prime Minister
:37:50. > :37:52.light of his U—turn on alcohol us, it is there anything he could
:37:52. > :37:54.organise in the light of his U—turn on alcohol pricing, can the Prime
:37:54. > :37:56.Minister tell us, is there anything he could organise inability? The
:37:56. > :37:59.Government recently made a U—turn and scrapped plans for a minimum
:37:59. > :38:04.price. It is something that has enraged Andy's psychiatrist. It
:38:04. > :38:06.price. It is something that has shocking to believe that the power
:38:06. > :38:16.of the lobbyists had overcome so clearly make a difference. Unlike
:38:16. > :38:25.all the alcohol lobbies blah blah as about what helps, like education,
:38:25. > :38:29.not being shown to be much use. It's the Government bowed to pressure
:38:29. > :38:35.from the drinks industry? These options here that this cider farm
:38:35. > :38:38.Somerset countryside. The county is a major hub for cider production.
:38:38. > :38:43.That means big money. In total, a major hub for cider production.
:38:43. > :38:49.cider industry is worth £3 billion a year and brings in a huge amount of
:38:49. > :38:53.revenue to the Treasury. Down the road at Taunton, at the fair was
:38:53. > :39:02.prices would have rocketed with minimum pricing, and it would hit
:39:02. > :39:09.increase instantly. That is if it was 50p will stop it could be even
:39:09. > :39:16.more. We are selling a premium product anyway and we sell it at a
:39:17. > :39:19.fairly premium price. Health experts say prices the main factor when
:39:19. > :39:25.fairly premium price. Health experts comes to developing a habit like
:39:25. > :39:30.Andy. But with jobs at stake, it is an adamant which looks likely to
:39:30. > :39:36.And you can hear more about Andy Farlow's story on Inside Out West
:39:37. > :39:40.But joining the debate today are Janet Maxwell, who's the director of
:39:40. > :39:44.public health in Bristol, and Simon Russell, who's a spokesperson for
:39:44. > :39:55.the cider industry. Welcome to you problem in this country cheap booze?
:39:55. > :39:58.I think it is a small minority of people misusing alcohol. There is a
:39:58. > :40:03.gentleman in crisis and many more like him. Our issue is whether that
:40:03. > :40:10.minority can be addressed with whole population measures, which is what
:40:10. > :40:14.minimum unit pricing is. There is an increasing problem. It is not a
:40:14. > :40:18.minority. It is younger people drinking more and more. It is a
:40:18. > :40:22.social known to drink increasing amounts. We are really concerned
:40:22. > :40:31.about what will happen to that generation who are now showing signs
:40:31. > :40:39.majority who do drink sensibly to put prices up? We think the people
:40:39. > :40:44.who will benefit from bringing in an minimum price are underage triggers
:40:44. > :40:49.and people who are binge drinking and people who are drinking at risk.
:40:49. > :40:54.It is those younger people we really want to benefit from this. You are
:40:54. > :41:01.in a very powerful lobby with the Government, aren't you? I would
:41:01. > :41:08.argue that is not true. The cider industry has a great profile here in
:41:08. > :41:10.the south—west. We are not a major industry in terms of total alcohol.
:41:10. > :41:16.£3 billion as the retail value of the industry. But to suggest we
:41:16. > :41:18.£3 billion as the retail value of some hotline to government... I
:41:18. > :41:20.would imagine the Chancellor is pretty interested in what the cider
:41:20. > :41:32.industry has to say giving the revenue. This wasn't about revenue.
:41:32. > :41:35.The issue was about public health. All alcohol industries are very
:41:35. > :41:39.clear, we want to be sustainable in the best way for the commercial
:41:39. > :41:44.enterprise. The best way to do that is for people to have a long—term
:41:44. > :41:49.responsible... It is hard to be responsible when something is cheap,
:41:49. > :41:55.isn't it? They could make apple juice rather than cider, which is
:41:55. > :42:01.evidence you can show that if you put up cider or wine prices, people
:42:01. > :42:08.will drink less of it? Those people who really wanted would be put off
:42:08. > :42:15.by 30p, or will they? Studies have consumption over the country would
:42:15. > :42:18.reduce by 3.3%. That is an overall figure. We think the people who
:42:18. > :42:23.would be affected most would be figure. We think the people who
:42:23. > :42:25.underage or younger generation and those dependent drinkers. Those
:42:25. > :42:29.underage or younger generation and the people we are really targeting.
:42:29. > :42:36.We haven't finished is completely, watching with interest because he
:42:36. > :42:39.could be deciding the cost of booze. Mind you, he's got shares in a
:42:39. > :42:41.brewery and owns the old Tobacco Factory. Our political reporter
:42:41. > :42:46.Robin Markwell has been out for Factory. Our political reporter
:42:46. > :42:51.The Government might have junked its plans for a floor price on the price
:42:51. > :42:55.of drink, but some councils think the policy is more than just froth
:42:55. > :43:05.are thinking about giving it a go believe they might be able to bring
:43:05. > :43:10.conditions. Newcastle and old have been experimenting with it and now
:43:10. > :43:13.Bristol could follow suit. The Mayor commercial interest in several
:43:14. > :43:20.across the city. He is toasting commercial interest in several
:43:20. > :43:26.notion of minimum price. The sort of responsible drinking. You get good
:43:26. > :43:32.behaviour in like this. The most damaging drinking is done by those
:43:32. > :43:35.buying the very cheapest booze in the cheap booze shops which have
:43:35. > :43:42.sprung up all over the place and in supermarkets themselves which, in
:43:42. > :43:45.themselves as well. What would it mean for people 's pockets? It is
:43:45. > :43:49.not going to work. I don't care mean for people 's pockets? It is
:43:49. > :43:58.they pay, I will go for something that is nice for stop —— that is
:43:58. > :44:03.nice. I would go for something like The Mind Destroyer, which would
:44:03. > :44:09.nice. I would go for something like actual shoes. —— which would be
:44:09. > :44:15.drinking and a sort of entitlement. These days, you can get two pints
:44:15. > :44:22.font just shy of £10 in a pub. People still do it. It probably
:44:22. > :44:24.would affect a lot of people. There is always a way to get your hands on
:44:24. > :44:31.counterfeit alcohol coming into is always a way to get your hands on
:44:31. > :44:32.UK. It is rampant and goes along illegal tobacco sales. So it won't
:44:32. > :44:39.stop them just by adding on 20p illegal tobacco sales. So it won't
:44:39. > :44:49.bottle of cider. Minimum alcohol Councils. Across Bristol, there
:44:49. > :44:51.bottle of cider. Minimum alcohol premises that can open and sell
:44:51. > :44:59.drink have been capped. The policy is working. Violent crime in central
:44:59. > :45:08.city centre remains a no go area for many, so new techniques are being
:45:08. > :45:10.considered. This programme can reveal that Avon and Somerset Police
:45:10. > :45:15.is considering a ground—breaking idea with a drunk and disorderly
:45:15. > :45:18.would face a choice between being charged or going to an alcohol
:45:18. > :45:23.awareness workshop. It would be charged or going to an alcohol
:45:23. > :45:30.against binge drinking. What powers do you have to influence this?
:45:30. > :45:31.I understand cities can take the decision to have minimum pricing in
:45:31. > :45:36.a city. I have always said as a decision to have minimum pricing in
:45:36. > :45:39.we're up for trying things out. decision to have minimum pricing in
:45:39. > :45:43.gather that Newcastle are thinking about trying it out. I applaud that.
:45:43. > :45:48.We will learn from then and see about trying it out. I applaud that.
:45:48. > :45:53.happens. I am sure that minimum pricing has an effect. What I am not
:45:53. > :45:58.sure about is what it does cross borders. What it should be as a
:45:58. > :46:06.national decision and I think the Government got it wrong. But you
:46:07. > :46:10.won't act alone or fast? No, because there are some definitely going
:46:10. > :46:16.before this. I think we will benefit from that. Let's see what comes
:46:16. > :46:22.before this. I think we will benefit of that. My interests were referred
:46:22. > :46:28.to. I am somebody who could organise that proverbial party in a brewery,
:46:28. > :46:31.but I absolutely believe we should have a responsible attitude to
:46:31. > :46:36.drinking. I would ask the cider industry to recognise that. So the
:46:36. > :46:40.Government flaunted by not doing anything but you're not? No. It
:46:40. > :46:46.should be a national thing. But anything but you're not? No. It
:46:46. > :46:58.ready to wish and. —— ready to listen. Labour's 24—hour drinking. A
:46:58. > :47:05.good idea? That is a different thing. The Government got it wrong.
:47:05. > :47:10.David Cameron said he would bring in minimum unit pricing. Theresa May
:47:10. > :47:17.said the same. And wasn't it a Labour policy? I think what Andy was
:47:18. > :47:23.earlier is that it would have had an effect on him when he was younger.
:47:23. > :47:30.Clearly he is a lot further down the line and relationship —— in his
:47:30. > :47:38.relationship with alcohol. It has to mechanism. I do not worried about it
:47:38. > :47:43.being called nanny state? It has to be part of supporting people in
:47:43. > :47:45.being called nanny state? It has to community. What you think about
:47:45. > :47:48.being called nanny state? It has to the Mayor said? He will not go fast
:47:48. > :47:54.or make sure unit prices are higher in Bristol. Now local authorities
:47:54. > :47:59.are responsible for public health and improving the health of the
:47:59. > :48:05.population, I think more and more, meaning the big eight cities in
:48:05. > :48:06.population, I think more and more, UK, the public health teams, are now
:48:06. > :48:11.looking at whether we could put UK, the public health teams, are now
:48:11. > :48:16.nationally. If we demonstrate we could put minimum pricing in those
:48:16. > :48:20.big cities, there is a chance it will make the Government that for
:48:20. > :48:33.the national recommendation. You are in a bit of a minority here. I am
:48:33. > :48:38.not sure that is true. In the UK, per capita consumption of the whole
:48:38. > :48:43.is in decline. We have a small population. Admittedly, perhaps
:48:43. > :48:45.is in decline. We have a small growing operation. But they are
:48:45. > :49:01.drinking at levels of harmful to notion of a whole population measure
:49:02. > :49:06.fresher's week. Students are getting drunk before they get out because it
:49:06. > :49:14.is treatment. Argue worried about that? Very worried. Surveys of
:49:14. > :49:18.schoolchildren sure that ten and 11—year—olds are starting to drink.
:49:18. > :49:24.And with offers in supermarkets 11—year—olds are starting to drink.
:49:24. > :49:30.all the rest of it. As a producer, we aren't responsible for the prices
:49:30. > :49:34.of alcohol. But we think minimum unit pricing doesn't work. There are
:49:34. > :49:38.issues around legality. Price is an important factor. We do not see
:49:38. > :49:41.issues around legality. Price is an sense necessarily in buying eight
:49:41. > :49:42.bottles of beer for a cheaper price than you might buy ten individual
:49:42. > :49:47.bottles of beer. Equally, we do than you might buy ten individual
:49:47. > :49:48.think there is a lot of merit in people being encouraged to drink at
:49:48. > :49:54.levels that are dangerous. They people being encouraged to drink at
:49:54. > :49:57.Bus fares in Bristol are being slashed by a quarter with some
:49:57. > :50:02.journeys for children reduced to drive to get people out of their
:50:03. > :50:16.cars. But the bus company First passenger numbers don't rise, they
:50:16. > :50:19.It is a victory for passenger power. When First asked what customers
:50:19. > :50:25.thought of the service, they were left in no doubt. They are quite
:50:25. > :50:33.expensive. It is £2 40 for a single fair which is a lot of money. It is
:50:33. > :50:40.quite clear. It cost me £5 40. So bigger zones, and a new theatre
:50:40. > :50:44.quite clear. It cost me £5 40. So the city. And for children, there
:50:44. > :50:50.are bigger discounts still. Children will get half—price on any ticket
:50:50. > :51:00.whether it is a day ticket or get on a bus to buy a ticket. A child will
:51:01. > :51:03.travelling a short distance. First Bus hope the changes will take them
:51:03. > :51:05.on the highway to passenger numbers. —— higher passenger numbers. More
:51:05. > :51:12.bums on seats will keep passenger numbers up. And it is cleared the
:51:12. > :51:20.way for Bristol's Mayor to drive motorists out of cars to buses to
:51:20. > :51:26.clear jams streets. —— jammed roads. That was the big news in Bristol.
:51:26. > :51:27.Bus fares down. How difficult was it to persuade the company to do that
:51:28. > :51:35.but you might —— to do that? It to persuade the company to do that
:51:35. > :51:39.a long process. It involved the chief executive of First. Bus users
:51:39. > :51:44.have been a very useful pain in chief executive of First. Bus users
:51:44. > :51:52.neck about this and have been at the bus company all the time. I started
:51:52. > :51:55.advantages. I think the bus company has responded really well. They
:51:55. > :51:59.advantages. I think the bus company getting it in the neck from people.
:51:59. > :52:02.I am asking people to give it a chance. 90% of people are winners on
:52:02. > :52:06.this. Kids are real winners. It chance. 90% of people are winners on
:52:06. > :52:13.much cleaner system. Let's see what comes out of it. You want people out
:52:13. > :52:19.of the cars and into bosses. That is the carrot, now presumably you will
:52:19. > :52:24.use the stick. There is an element of carrot and stick in all transport
:52:24. > :52:30.creating the man. What is important is we have a healthy city. Janet
:52:30. > :52:38.here will reinforce that. Always telling us to do things we do not
:52:38. > :52:41.want to do particularly. We have a differential depending where you
:52:41. > :52:46.live in the city, and air quality is a major contributor to that. What is
:52:46. > :52:52.really important is that we three up our roads and streets so that people
:52:52. > :52:58.who essentially need to be on them can move on them instead of us all
:52:58. > :53:05.being part of the problem. Let's bring the doctor back in here. I was
:53:05. > :53:09.a bit cheeky to you. You think it is serious about the health benefits of
:53:09. > :53:15.being in a bus got a Mac being at a bus stop on a wet Monday morning?
:53:15. > :53:18.Huge benefits. As fuel prices go up, younger people are thinking twice
:53:18. > :53:22.about whether to choose to buy a car. We have seen in London a real
:53:22. > :53:28.shift of young people using public available and accessible. We want
:53:28. > :53:30.Bristol to be like that so everyone can use public transport, cycle
:53:30. > :53:39.Bristol to be like that so everyone walk and make journeys easier. That
:53:39. > :53:42.easily, more physically active. It is still not cheap. From a political
:53:42. > :53:45.point of view, it is not cheap. is still not cheap. From a political
:53:45. > :53:48.family of four, even if you get is still not cheap. From a political
:53:48. > :53:53.ticket for a couple of quid, it is still not cheap. From a political
:53:53. > :53:59.still much cheaper to take the car. A family of four, you can get an £8
:53:59. > :54:07.all day to get. On special Sundays, 5p. There are good deals. If you
:54:07. > :54:09.choose the right deal... When we get smart cards, the right deal will
:54:09. > :54:14.automatically come with your smart card. At the moment, if you're
:54:14. > :54:20.within the inner area, get the card. At the moment, if you're
:54:20. > :54:28.all day ticket. Just be intelligent. Thank you for that joining us. Is
:54:28. > :54:37.the bus waiting or the bicycle? Time to look at some of the week's
:54:38. > :54:42.other political news in 60 seconds. This is Josie Channer. She was the
:54:42. > :54:46.Labour candidate in Kingswood but after a BBC investigation revealed
:54:46. > :54:52.she had £2000 in unpaid parking fines, she has resigned. Josie says
:54:52. > :54:56.she only discovered last year she still owed the money to the Borough
:54:56. > :55:01.of Barking and Dagenham where she Left stranded when they left broker,
:55:01. > :55:06.these residents are furious they have been stuck indoors for weeks,
:55:06. > :55:11.so they called in their local MP to see if she could open some doors. I
:55:11. > :55:13.saw representative yesterday and she said it would probably be done by
:55:13. > :55:21.Tuesday. Later that day, we saw said it would probably be done by
:55:21. > :55:26.MP, Charlotte Leslie, and suddenly the left is being repaired today.
:55:26. > :55:29.And there has been criticism from passenger groups after confirmation
:55:29. > :55:34.that the same company is to go on running most of the West's trains.
:55:34. > :55:44.First Great Western had been given a two—year extension to the franchise.
:55:44. > :55:47.Busy week, but aren't they all? You're the chairperson of the South
:55:47. > :55:48.West Labour Board. They help with the selection of candidates. This
:55:48. > :55:52.has been a disaster, hasn't it? the selection of candidates. This
:55:52. > :56:00.candidate who didn't peep arcing fine. —— who did not pay parking
:56:00. > :56:05.fines. Josie has made a personal decision that she will step down
:56:05. > :56:10.from being a candidate in Kingswood and the constituency will select
:56:10. > :56:18.someone else. Why do Japan should someone in from London anyway? ——
:56:18. > :56:26.why did you parachute someone in. She was not parachuted in. There
:56:26. > :56:37.will no—one local who could do it? There was, but the selection process
:56:37. > :56:43.Providing they chose women—owned? It was an all women short list. Tough
:56:43. > :56:47.luck on any talented bloke who might want to stand. The Labour Party
:56:47. > :56:52.luck on any talented bloke who might have a policy of all women short
:56:52. > :56:56.lists. It is only over the last entry and a bit that the Labour
:56:56. > :57:02.Party has existed will there were all men short lists. We now have all
:57:02. > :57:04.That is all we have had time for this week. Thank you to our guests
:57:04. > :57:07.We are getting into a discussion of more affordable homes needed, but we
:57:07. > :57:20.have no time. Andrew, back to you. Our next guest is no stranger to
:57:20. > :57:41.controversy, a former UKIP MEP he recently lost his party's whip after
:57:41. > :57:45.a series of outbursts including receiving aid as 'Bongo Bongo Land'
:57:45. > :57:49.and joking that a group of UKIP women who didn't clean behind their
:57:49. > :57:53.fridges were 'sluts'. Now he sits in independent but remains a UKIP party
:57:53. > :58:03.member. Here's a flavour of recent events in the political life of
:58:03. > :58:12.Godfrey Bloom. How you can possibly be giving £1 million a month...
:58:12. > :58:15.Bongo Bongo Land. I got 6000 e-mails within 12 hours, only 47 were not
:58:16. > :58:20.agreeing with me so you are the within 12 hours, only 47 were not
:58:20. > :58:23.that is out of touch. Everybody knows me, a bit like the Marmite
:58:23. > :58:27.joke, they love me or they hate knows me, a bit like the Marmite
:58:27. > :58:38.but I have always told me like it is. I made a joke and said that
:58:38. > :58:42.women who did not clean behind the French were sluts and everybody
:58:42. > :58:45.laughed along, including the women. I have had hundreds of e-mails,
:58:45. > :58:51.saying, God Almighty, can't you I have had hundreds of e-mails,
:58:51. > :58:56.a joke any more? I am long in the correctness and I understand UKIP
:58:56. > :59:10.have moved on and they are doing well, and I wish them well. This,
:59:10. > :59:16.with no black faces on it. You are picking people out for the colour of
:59:16. > :59:19.with no black faces on it. You are their skin? You disgust me! Perhaps
:59:19. > :59:27.the way they are doing things now is disgrace me. We are joined now with
:59:27. > :59:34.a suitable distance between us by the independent MEP for Yorkshire
:59:34. > :59:39.and the Humber, Godfrey Bloom. You said this weekend that you have
:59:39. > :59:47.and the Humber, Godfrey Bloom. You be a complete sociopath to be in
:59:48. > :59:51.politics, are you a sociopath? No, I am just an ordinary bloke from the
:59:51. > :59:55.rugby club likes to tell it as it is. I did not come into politics to
:59:55. > :00:00.rugby club likes to tell it as it save my country from the clutches of
:00:00. > :00:06.the awful, evil... That is why I am in politics, and that is why I
:00:06. > :00:14.member, and I will still be voting ability... Do you accept that your
:00:14. > :00:21.conference? We were both born in ability... Do you accept that your
:00:21. > :00:27.same year, we are too old to worry about regrets. Let's look forward
:00:27. > :00:35.and see... Never mind the year I was born, what is the answer to my
:00:35. > :00:42.country and intent to do the best I independent for my country, and
:00:42. > :00:45.country and intent to do the best I re-elected. They are the only game
:00:45. > :00:54.in town, the only party that will get as out. Shouldn't you have been
:00:54. > :00:58.liability? You hijacked the party conference. That is a matter of
:00:58. > :01:02.perception. We have heard nothing in the last two years but it is a
:01:02. > :01:05.one-man band, a Nigel Farage party, and I can make a joke at a fringe
:01:05. > :01:14.meeting and collapse the whole thing. This doesn't say anything
:01:14. > :01:22.Andrew. It tells you about your journalism - it is not about UKIP or
:01:22. > :01:29.me, it was the journalists' reaction to a small joke at a meeting. And
:01:29. > :01:43.myself, unless I had a commended. Personality, the most unbelievable
:01:43. > :01:56.force of personality to collapse a party conference. Nigel Farage has
:01:56. > :02:00.been a friend of mine for 20 years, and may I remind you that in June
:02:00. > :02:06.and July UK was slipping in the polls, and when I made my statement
:02:06. > :02:13.about overseas aid, we went back to liability, I never was, I am a vote
:02:13. > :02:18.getter. As you know, there is a correlation, but let me show you
:02:18. > :02:23.what Nigel Farage had to say about you on the BBC. Let's blunder clip
:02:23. > :02:30.of that. We are not here to win friends amongst the liberal elite,
:02:30. > :02:39.and Godfrey's problem was that he manifesto. Don't you need to reflect
:02:39. > :02:41.that you are too outrageous, too politically incorrect even for UKIP?
:02:41. > :02:46.Well, you see, to a certain extent I politically incorrect even for UKIP?
:02:46. > :02:50.have been gagged on other subjects. I am a libertarian, I wanted to
:02:51. > :02:53.have been gagged on other subjects. about flat tax. I thought David
:02:53. > :02:57.Aronowitz wrote a very good piece in the times on drugs, and I have been
:02:57. > :03:01.gagged to speak about any of these things because they are not part of
:03:01. > :03:10.it, so I tend to speak about other things. Maybe they have outgrown
:03:10. > :03:13.machine, and they have to get rid of the Victor Meldrew wing. You might
:03:13. > :03:17.have a point, but I am speaking the Victor Meldrew wing. You might
:03:17. > :03:23.you from Hull, and if you look at Barnsley, and very recently in
:03:23. > :03:28.Scarborough and Whitby in the buy legends, 25%, so how you see things
:03:28. > :03:32.in the bubble, it is not like how we see it appear in Yorkshire. You
:03:32. > :03:34.in the bubble, it is not like how we like the one who was sitting in
:03:34. > :03:35.in the bubble, it is not like how we bubble! Is UKIP unravelling? Of
:03:35. > :03:40.course it isn't, we are getting bubble! Is UKIP unravelling? Of
:03:40. > :03:45.of the vote in by-elections, of course it is not. Boy, wouldn't
:03:45. > :03:48.of the vote in by-elections, of main parties and the establishment
:03:48. > :03:52.love to see that! But I am sorry, it is not happening. Will you stand as
:03:52. > :03:55.an independence against UKIP in is not happening. Will you stand as
:03:55. > :04:07.European elections? Almost certainly elections were next week, I could
:04:07. > :04:10.do not think I will go that route. Will you stand as a UKIP candidate
:04:10. > :04:14.again? We do not know, probably Will you stand as a UKIP candidate
:04:14. > :04:18.but I shall certainly be trying Will you stand as a UKIP candidate
:04:18. > :04:21.help UKIP as best I can. You both share a flat, I understand, in
:04:21. > :04:26.Brussels, neither of you clean behind the fridge. Other than the
:04:26. > :04:30.fact that the place is probably quite murky, you have got a chance
:04:30. > :04:34.to talk to each other and get back into his good graces, haven't you? I
:04:34. > :04:43.am sure we will be having a beer before the month is out. So Godfrey
:04:43. > :04:50.take it? For those of you who were shrugged! Thank you very much for
:04:50. > :04:55.joining. A great pleasure. I will have to move my own share, you do
:04:55. > :05:00.not have the sea Jeremy Paxman doing that! Nobody votes for UKIP because
:05:00. > :05:07.they think they are a smooth, slick, absence of PR polish is the reason
:05:07. > :05:10.for their popularity, so these are skirmishes are not a problem, and
:05:10. > :05:14.more than that, Godfrey Bloom does make Nigel Farage look better. Even
:05:14. > :05:20.in that clip from Andrew Marr, he juxtaposition with someone like
:05:20. > :05:25.Godfrey Bloom than he has done before. I mean, he did hijacked
:05:25. > :05:25.Godfrey Bloom than he has done conference, it was a disaster, they
:05:25. > :05:28.got tonnes of publicity but not conference, it was a disaster, they
:05:28. > :05:37.kind they wanted. But you have to journalists. I thought he was sexist
:05:37. > :05:41.long before anyone else, he used to have an incredible page on his
:05:41. > :05:47.website entitled Godfrey Bloom: Misogynist, and the proof that he
:05:47. > :05:53.photographed with a girls' rugby characters in politics. He does
:05:53. > :05:55.photographed with a girls' rugby Nigel Farage look better, but is sin
:05:55. > :06:01.was to say things you said before but to ruin the party conference. It
:06:01. > :06:06.sounds like he is coming back. A beer in Brussels and he will be
:06:06. > :06:06.sounds like he is coming back. A on the UKIP ticket. Sitting having a
:06:06. > :06:12.beer in that built the Chechen, on the UKIP ticket. Sitting having a
:06:12. > :06:15.sounds like it may be what the deal is that he comes back into UKIP
:06:15. > :06:18.sounds like it may be what the deal does not stand as an MEP at the
:06:18. > :06:22.European Parliamentary elections. -- in that built the kitchen. It is
:06:22. > :06:25.right to say the electorate are sophisticated and they know what
:06:25. > :06:32.this party is for, what characters Godfrey Bloom said for people to
:06:32. > :06:37.electorate know what they go using UKIP four. They are using it as
:06:37. > :06:37.electorate know what they go using vehicle to beat over the head the
:06:37. > :06:40.three established parties. They vehicle to beat over the head the
:06:40. > :06:44.probably do it in the European elections and give them first place.
:06:44. > :06:55.The big question is what happens in problem that Nigel Farage was making
:06:55. > :06:56.The big question is what happens in an Andrew Marr this morning is that
:06:56. > :06:58.he wants to copy the tactics of an Andrew Marr this morning is that
:06:58. > :06:59.he wants to copy the tactics of Paddy Ashdown, get elected and
:06:59. > :07:01.councils, build up a Parliamentary base, and to do that you do need
:07:01. > :07:04.Commons next week, and there is base, and to do that you do need
:07:04. > :07:06.ministerial reshuffle on the cards, that is the rumour in Westminster.
:07:06. > :07:10.David Cameron has spoken of the that is the rumour in Westminster.
:07:10. > :07:12.David Cameron has spoken of the extraordinary talent pool of women
:07:12. > :07:14.among his ministers, so could he bring more of them into the cabinet?
:07:14. > :07:19.He was talking about it earlier bring more of them into the cabinet?
:07:19. > :07:24.week. I think we are getting there in Britain, but we have a long way
:07:24. > :07:29.businesses in Britain, there are not boardroom. If you look at politics
:07:29. > :07:34.in Britain, there aren't nearly enough women around the Cabinet
:07:34. > :07:38.table. So I think, in every walk of life, whether it is the judiciary,
:07:38. > :07:41.whether it is politics, business, there is a lot further to go. Before
:07:41. > :07:44.the last election, we only had there is a lot further to go. Before
:07:44. > :07:47.women Members of Parliament. We there is a lot further to go. Before
:07:47. > :07:50.have around 50, so we have made there is a lot further to go. Before
:07:50. > :07:55.big change, but it is still 50 out of 300, not nearly enough. So we
:07:55. > :08:00.need to do more. My wife likes to say, if you don't have women in
:08:00. > :08:03.need to do more. My wife likes to places, you're not just missing
:08:03. > :08:05.need to do more. My wife likes to missing out on a lot more than
:08:05. > :08:09.need to do more. My wife likes to of the talent, and I think she
:08:09. > :08:14.need to do more. My wife likes to probably has a point. The prime
:08:14. > :08:14.need to do more. My wife likes to there going to be a reshuffle? I
:08:14. > :08:19.think you are right to say there there going to be a reshuffle? I
:08:19. > :08:25.will be a lot more women, they need to change the ratio of women to
:08:25. > :08:32.will be a lot more women, they need called Dave who went to maudlin
:08:32. > :08:43.college. So obviously they are not fishing in the biggest talent pool,
:08:43. > :08:46.but there are numbers. Esther McVey has been selling a very difficult
:08:46. > :08:48.brief in work and pensions, you could see people being given bigger
:08:48. > :08:54.roles. Helen is pretty sure. We could see people being given bigger
:08:54. > :08:57.told it is not a Cabinet level reshuffle me it is under Secretary
:08:57. > :09:04.level, so maybe you could put Esther McVey into the Cabinet. Margot
:09:04. > :09:07.James, who you had here not that long ago, she is very impressive.
:09:07. > :09:11.What is impressive is that some long ago, she is very impressive.
:09:11. > :09:16.like Andrea Leadsom, who is really impressive, worked in the City,
:09:16. > :09:19.like Andrea Leadsom, who is really smart, really big on important
:09:19. > :09:23.intervention, she should still be in there, but she fell out with George
:09:23. > :09:32.Osborne when she dared to criticise him a few years ago over Ed Balls
:09:32. > :09:41.you are doing it on talent, Andrea expectation, if he does not do this
:09:41. > :09:48.now, a tonne of bricks will fall on him. He has got no excuse not to
:09:48. > :09:56.promote women, because the 2010 intake was disproportionately female
:09:56. > :09:59.in terms of talent. The question of the Tories and the struggle with
:09:59. > :10:03.women voters is a very deep and historic one. You have to remember
:10:03. > :10:07.that for most of the post-war period they had an advantage electorally
:10:07. > :10:12.amongst women voters. Many times Conservative government without
:10:12. > :10:14.amongst women voters. Many times women of this country. This began to
:10:14. > :10:20.change in the mid-1990s, and the question is, why has that happened?
:10:20. > :10:26.personalities at the top are now much more hostile to women, or less,
:10:26. > :10:27.personalities at the top are now Brent doubled to female voters?
:10:27. > :10:29.personalities at the top are now is such a deep historical trend
:10:29. > :10:35.personalities at the top are now I do not think one reshuffle will
:10:35. > :10:40.change it. -- or less competent civil. The English party conference
:10:40. > :10:46.season is over, do you share the consensus view that Ed Miliband
:10:46. > :10:51.season is over, do you share the out best of the three party leaders?
:10:51. > :10:56.I think I probably do, but his overall approval ratings are still
:10:56. > :11:00.minus 20, whereas Cameron's minus ten. And the more the recovery seems
:11:00. > :11:02.minus 20, whereas Cameron's minus to take place, and some of the
:11:02. > :11:07.latest figures are quite amazing, they certainly surprised me, you
:11:07. > :11:14.wonder whether Labour's tactic is right to put all their eggs into the
:11:14. > :11:18.living standards basket. I was looking at car sales, which are
:11:18. > :11:21.booming. If people start to feel better, and they don't yet, but
:11:21. > :11:29.booming. If people start to feel they were, it is tougher to go on
:11:29. > :11:32.about living standards. George Osborne's... You have Ed Miliband
:11:32. > :11:37.making a great thing about living standards, but then they say under
:11:37. > :11:43.their breath, this is global forces, outstripping wage increases. And
:11:43. > :11:47.you're absolutely right, as the economy improves, presumably that
:11:47. > :11:50.will be dealt with, but Miliband's argument will be that there are
:11:50. > :11:56.people suffering, and even if the economy recovers, they will still
:11:56. > :12:01.forces, it is difficult to blame the government for that. Body being
:12:01. > :12:06.noticed now, there is nothing worse for the leader of the opposition
:12:06. > :12:10.than to be not noticed. -- but he is being noticed now. It seems that he
:12:10. > :12:12.in many ways has set the political weather. Look at the number of
:12:12. > :12:18.references to the Labour leader weather. Look at the number of
:12:18. > :12:25.Mr Cameron's speech. And in Mr Obama's speech on a similar topic,
:12:25. > :12:31.living standards. Was the mentioning Ed Miliband?! Oh, he was using the
:12:31. > :12:37.same language, he has not gone that far. If I were Ed Miliband, I would
:12:37. > :12:40.be more worried now, because Labour through the kitchen sink at their
:12:40. > :12:44.conference. They came out with the biggest policy announcements they
:12:44. > :12:49.could, compulsory apprenticeships, the energy freeze on prices, and it
:12:49. > :12:54.generated a poll boost which has fizzled away within ten days. I
:12:54. > :12:56.generated a poll boost which has not know where they go from here.
:12:56. > :13:03.What is significant with Ed Miliband conference beaches, he has set the
:13:03. > :13:07.one nation Britain, and the problem with those speeches is people say,
:13:07. > :13:14.they are fine, they are academic, but what does it mean? What you
:13:14. > :13:16.they are fine, they are academic, now is an intellectual framework
:13:16. > :13:20.that translates into policies. The polls to watch are not the ones
:13:20. > :13:23.after the conferences, but at the end of the month when it has also
:13:23. > :13:28.pulled down. They will tell us where we are going. We will have to go
:13:28. > :13:31.ourselves now. Thank you to our guests. The Daily Politics will
:13:31. > :13:33.ourselves now. Thank you to our back tomorrow at noon on BBC Two,
:13:34. > :13:37.and I will be back on BBC One this time, same time, next week. If it is
:13:37. > :13:39.Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.