:00:36. > :00:42.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Ed Miliband's on
:00:43. > :00:47.the war path over pay day loans your energy bill and what he calls
:00:48. > :00:52.the bedroom tax. His spinners say he's resurgent though the polls
:00:53. > :00:55.don't show it. We'll be talking to his right hand woman, Labour's
:00:56. > :01:00.Deputy Leader, Harriet Harman. From resurgent to insurgent. Nigel Farage
:01:01. > :01:08.won an award this week for being a political insurgent. We'll be
:01:09. > :01:11.talking to the UKIP leader. And Harriet hates, hates, hates page
:01:12. > :01:14.three. She wants rid of it. But what do you think? We sent Adam out with
:01:15. > :01:29.some balls. Stay. It is good In the West ` as we remember the
:01:30. > :01:32.fallen, who are today's enemies One terrorist group has issued a video
:01:33. > :01:34.people from Bristol to fight a holy people from Bristol to fight a holy
:01:35. > :01:47.row over the super sewer rumbles on. And with me, fresh from their
:01:48. > :01:54.success at yesterday's Star Wars auditions, Darth Vader. Obi Wan
:01:55. > :01:58.Kenobi and R2D2. Congratulations on your new jobs. We'll miss you. Nick
:01:59. > :02:02.Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. First, the talks with Iran in
:02:03. > :02:12.Geneva. They ended last night without agreement despite hopes of a
:02:13. > :02:15.breakthrough. America and its allies didn't think Iran was prepared to go
:02:16. > :02:19.far enough to freeze its nuclear programme. But some progress has
:02:20. > :02:21.been made and there's to be another meeting in ten days' time, though at
:02:22. > :02:25.a lower level. The Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had this
:02:26. > :02:30.to say a little earlier. On the question of, or will it happen in
:02:31. > :02:38.the next few weeks? There is a good chance of that. We will be trying
:02:39. > :02:45.again on 20th, 21st of November and negotiators will be trying again. We
:02:46. > :02:49.will keep an enormous amount of energy and persistence behind
:02:50. > :02:57.solving this. Will that be a deal which will please everyone? No, it
:02:58. > :03:01.will not. Compromises will need to be made. I had discussions with
:03:02. > :03:05.Israeli ministers yesterday and put the case for the kind of deal we are
:03:06. > :03:10.looking the case for the kind of deal we are
:03:11. > :03:15.interests of the whole world, including
:03:16. > :03:16.interests of the whole world, the world, to reach a diplomatic
:03:17. > :03:24.agreement we can be confident in in this issue. This otherwise will
:03:25. > :03:27.threaten the world with nuclear proliferation and conflict in the
:03:28. > :03:31.future. The interesting thing about this is that it seems
:03:32. > :03:38.future. The interesting thing about prepared to go far enough over the
:03:39. > :03:51.Iraq heavy water plutonium reactor it is building. The people who took
:03:52. > :03:57.the toughest line - the French. France has always had a pretty tough
:03:58. > :04:01.line on Iran. They see it as a disruptive influence in Lebanon I
:04:02. > :04:06.am reasonably optimistic a deal will be done later this month when the
:04:07. > :04:11.talks reconvene. Western economic sanctions have had such an impact on
:04:12. > :04:21.Iran domestic league. They have pushed inflation up to 40%.
:04:22. > :04:27.Dashes-macro domestically. The new president had a campaign pledge
:04:28. > :04:33.saying, I will deal with sanctions. I actually think, by the end of this
:04:34. > :04:40.year, we will see progress in these talks. Should we be optimistic? The
:04:41. > :04:46.next round of talks will be at official level. The place to watch
:04:47. > :04:52.will be Israel. The language which has been coming out of there is
:04:53. > :05:02.still incredibly angry, incredibly defensive. They do not want a deal
:05:03. > :05:07.at all. Presumably John Kerry has to go away and tried to get Israel to
:05:08. > :05:18.be quiet about it, even if they cannot be happy about it. They
:05:19. > :05:26.cannot agree to a deal which allows the Iraq reactor with plutonium
:05:27. > :05:33.heavy water. You do not need that with a peaceful nuclear power
:05:34. > :05:39.programme will stop that is why the Israelis are so nervous. If there is
:05:40. > :05:46.an international deal, Israel could still bomb that but it would be
:05:47. > :05:51.impossible. The French tactics are interesting. It says the French
:05:52. > :05:57.blocked it in part because they are trying to carry favour with Israel
:05:58. > :06:02.but also the Gulf Arab states, who are really nervous about and
:06:03. > :06:06.Iranians nuclear capability. Who is that? Saudi Arabia. Newsnight had a
:06:07. > :06:18.story saying that Pakistan is prepared to provide them with
:06:19. > :06:24.nuclear weapons. You are right about Saudi Arabia. They are much more
:06:25. > :06:27.against this deal than Israel. Who is Herman van Rompuy's favourite
:06:28. > :06:31.MEP? It is probably not Nigel Farage. He plummeted to the bottom
:06:32. > :06:34.of the EU president's Christmas card list after comparing him to a bank
:06:35. > :06:44.clerk with the charisma of a damp rag. And he's been at it again this
:06:45. > :06:48.week. Have a look. Today is November the 5th, a big celebration festival
:06:49. > :06:52.day in England. That was an attempt to blow up the Houses of Parliament
:06:53. > :06:57.with dynamite and destroy the Constitution. You have taken the
:06:58. > :07:04.Dahl, technocratic approach to all of these things. What you and your
:07:05. > :07:07.colleagues save time and again you talk about initiatives and what you
:07:08. > :07:13.are going to do about unemployment. The reality is nothing in this union
:07:14. > :07:18.is getting better. The accounts have not been signed off for 18 years. I
:07:19. > :07:23.am now told it is 19 and you are doing your best to tone down any
:07:24. > :07:28.criticism. Whatever growth figures you may have, they are anaemic.
:07:29. > :07:34.Youth unemployment in the Mediterranean is over 50% in several
:07:35. > :07:38.states. You will notice there is a rise in opposition dashed real
:07:39. > :07:43.opposition. Much of it ugly opposition, not stuff that I would
:07:44. > :07:51.want to link hands with. And Nigel Farage joins me now. Let me put to
:07:52. > :07:58.you what the editor of the Sun had to say. He says, UKIP will peak at
:07:59. > :08:03.the European election and then it will begin to get marginalised as we
:08:04. > :08:07.get closer to 2015 because there is now that clear blue water between
:08:08. > :08:14.Labour and the Tories. What do you say to that? There may be layered
:08:15. > :08:20.blue water on energy pricing but on Eastern Europe, there is no
:08:21. > :08:24.difference at all. When Ed Miliband offers the referendum to match
:08:25. > :08:29.Cameron, even that argument on Europe will be gone. The one thing
:08:30. > :08:34.that will keep UKIP strong, heading towards 2015, is if people think in
:08:35. > :08:38.some constituencies we can win. I cannot sit here right now and say
:08:39. > :08:42.that will be the case. If we get over the hurdle of the European
:08:43. > :08:50.elections clearly, I think there will be grounds to say that UKIP can
:08:51. > :08:55.win seats in Westminster. You are going to run? Without a shadow of a
:08:56. > :09:01.doubt. I do not know which constituency. The welcome I got in
:09:02. > :09:06.Edinburgh was not that friendly Edinburgh is not everything in
:09:07. > :09:10.Scotland. I think we have a realistic chance of winning those
:09:11. > :09:16.elections. If we do that, we will have the momentum behind us. You
:09:17. > :09:20.might be the biggest party after the May elections. The National front is
:09:21. > :09:27.likely to do very well in France as well. They have won the crucial
:09:28. > :09:34.by-election in the South of France. Have you talked about joining full
:09:35. > :09:40.season in Parliament? The leader has tried to take the movement into a
:09:41. > :09:47.different direction than her father. The man she beat, to become leader,
:09:48. > :09:52.actually attended the BNP conference. The problem she has with
:09:53. > :09:56.her party and we have with her party is that anti-Semitism is too deep
:09:57. > :10:02.and we will not be doing a deal with the French national government. You
:10:03. > :10:11.can guarantee you will not be joining such groups. I can guarantee
:10:12. > :10:14.that. Let's move on to Europe. Let's accept that the pro-Europeans
:10:15. > :10:21.exaggerate the loss of jobs that would follow the departure of
:10:22. > :10:30.Britain from the UK. Is there no risk of jobs whatsoever? No risk
:10:31. > :10:37.whatsoever. There is no risk at all. There have been some weak and lazy
:10:38. > :10:44.arguments put around about this We will go on doing business - go on
:10:45. > :10:48.doing trade with Europe. We will have increased opportunities to do
:10:49. > :10:57.trade deals with the rest of the world and they will create jobs The
:10:58. > :11:02.head of Nissan, the head of Hitachi and CBI many other voices in British
:11:03. > :11:08.business, when they all expressed concern about the potential loss of
:11:09. > :11:16.jobs and incoming investment, we should just ignore them. With
:11:17. > :11:25.Nissan, the BBC News is making this a huge story. The boss did not say
:11:26. > :11:30.what was reported. He said there was a potential danger to his future
:11:31. > :11:35.investment. They have already made the investments. They have built the
:11:36. > :11:39.plant in Sunderland, which they say is operating well. We should be
:11:40. > :11:43.careful of what bosses of big businesses say. This man said they
:11:44. > :11:49.may have two leaves Sunderland if we did not join the euro. I do not take
:11:50. > :11:55.that seriously. As for the CBI, they wanted us to join the euro and now
:11:56. > :12:00.they do not. Even within the CBI, there is a significant minority
:12:01. > :12:03.saying, we do not agree with what the CBI director-general is saying.
:12:04. > :12:09.The former boss of the organisation is saying we need a referendum and
:12:10. > :12:14.we need a referendum soon. It depends on the renegotiation. There
:12:15. > :12:18.is not the uniformity. What we are beginning to see in the world, is,
:12:19. > :12:25.manufacturing and small businesses are a lot more voices saying, the
:12:26. > :12:33.costs of membership outweigh any potential benefit. If you look at
:12:34. > :12:40.the polls, if Mr Cameron does repatriate some powers and he joins
:12:41. > :12:45.with Labour, the Lib Dems, the Nationalists in Scotland and Wales,
:12:46. > :12:54.most of business, all of the unions to say we should stay in, you are
:12:55. > :12:58.going to lose, aren't you? In 1 75, the circumstances were exactly the
:12:59. > :13:01.same. Mr Wilson promised a renegotiation and he got very
:13:02. > :13:06.little. The establishment gathered around him and they voted for us to
:13:07. > :13:13.stay in. I do not think that will happen now. The scales have fallen.
:13:14. > :13:18.We do not want to be governed by Herman Van Rompuy and these people.
:13:19. > :13:21.These people are Eurosceptic but they do not seem to feel strongly
:13:22. > :13:25.enough about it that they are going to defy all the major parties they
:13:26. > :13:32.vote for, companies that employ them, unions they are members of. I
:13:33. > :13:37.am absolutely confident there will be a lot voices in business saying,
:13:38. > :13:46.we need to take this opportunity to break free, give ourselves a chance
:13:47. > :14:06.of a low regulation lowball trader. -- global trade. In 1970 53 small
:14:07. > :14:09.publications said to vote yes. I am not contemplating losing. The most
:14:10. > :14:17.important thing is to get the referendum. If UKIP is not strong,
:14:18. > :14:20.there will not be a referendum. Earlier in the year, your party
:14:21. > :14:27.issued a leaflet about the remaining sample parents being able to come to
:14:28. > :14:30.this country. The EU will allow 29 million Bulgarians and remaining is
:14:31. > :14:44.to come to the UK. That is technically correct but we both know
:14:45. > :14:55.that is not the case. It is an open door to these people. Why take the
:14:56. > :15:06.risk? By make out there are 29 million people? I stand by that
:15:07. > :15:15.verdict. It is an open door. 29 million are not going to come. They
:15:16. > :15:20.can if they want. Also 29 million people from France can come. After
:15:21. > :15:24.these countries have joined, we will do another leaflet saying that Mr
:15:25. > :15:34.Cameron wants to open the door to 70 million people from Turkey. That is
:15:35. > :15:39.scaremongering. I would not say that. We have a million young
:15:40. > :15:44.British workers between 16 and 4 without work. A lot of them want
:15:45. > :15:49.work and we do not need another massive oversupply in the unskilled
:15:50. > :15:56.labour market. Why did you have such a bad time on question Time this
:15:57. > :16:02.week? The folk that did not buy your anti-immigration stick. Do you think
:16:03. > :16:07.that group of people in the room was representative of the voters of
:16:08. > :16:10.Boston? What would make you think it was unrepresentative? When the
:16:11. > :16:14.county council elections took place this year in Boston, of the seven
:16:15. > :16:18.seats, UKIP won five and almost won the other two. I don't think that
:16:19. > :16:23.audience reflected that, but that doesn't matter. How an audience is
:16:24. > :16:28.put together, how a panel is put together, on one programme, it
:16:29. > :16:31.doesn't mean much at all. It shows that your anti-immigrant measure
:16:32. > :16:35.doesn't fly as easily as you hoped it would? The opinion polls which
:16:36. > :16:39.will be launched on Monday that we are conducting and nearing
:16:40. > :16:43.completion, they show two things. Firstly, an astonishing number of
:16:44. > :16:48.people who think it's irresponsible and wrong to open the doer to
:16:49. > :16:52.Romania and Bulgaria, secondly and crucially, a number of people whose
:16:53. > :16:54.vote in the European elections and subsequent general elections may be
:16:55. > :16:57.determined by the immigration issues. This does matter. It would
:16:58. > :17:02.be the perfect run group the European elections in May for you if
:17:03. > :17:06.a lot of Bulgarians and remainians flooded in. You would like that to
:17:07. > :17:11.happen? I think it will happen. Whether I like it or not, it will
:17:12. > :17:14.happen. You think it will be good for you, it will stir things up If
:17:15. > :17:20.you say to people in poor countries, you can come here, get a job, have a
:17:21. > :17:24.safety net of a benefits system claim child allowance for your kids
:17:25. > :17:29.in Bucharest, people will come You are ready with the arguments
:17:30. > :17:32.already? You will be disappointed if only ten turn up? Whether lots come
:17:33. > :17:35.or not we should. Taking the risk and yes, we are going to make it a
:17:36. > :17:39.major issue in the European election. Let's leave it there.
:17:40. > :17:43.Thank you very much, Nigel Farage. The summer of 2013 was not good for
:17:44. > :17:47.Ed Miliband, with questions over his leadership, low ratings and
:17:48. > :17:50.complaints about no policies. He bounced back with a vengeance at the
:17:51. > :17:54.Labour Conference in September, delivering a speech which this week
:17:55. > :17:58.won the spectator political speech of the year aword. In that speech he
:17:59. > :18:03.focussed on the cost-of-living and promised a temporary freeze on
:18:04. > :18:10.energy prices. Even said this. The next election isn't just going to be
:18:11. > :18:15.about policy. It's going to be about how we lead and the character we
:18:16. > :18:23.show. I've got a message for the Tories today. If they want to have a
:18:24. > :18:29.debate, about leadership and character, be my guest And if you
:18:30. > :18:34.want to know the difference between me and David Cameron, here is an
:18:35. > :18:39.easy way to remember it. When it was Murdoch v the McCanns, he took the
:18:40. > :18:44.side of Murdoch. When it was the tobacco lobby versus the cancer
:18:45. > :18:48.charities, he took the side of the tobacco lobby. When the millionaires
:18:49. > :18:52.wanted a tax cut as people pay the bedroom tax, he took the side of the
:18:53. > :18:55.millionaires. A come to think of it, here is an easier way to remember
:18:56. > :18:59.it. David Cameron was a Prime Minister who introduced the bedroom
:19:00. > :19:08.tax. I'll be the Prime Minister who repeals the bedroom tax There we go,
:19:09. > :19:16.that will go down with the party faithful on Tuesday. There will be a
:19:17. > :19:21.debate on the bedroom tax. Labour's Deputy Leader, Harriet Harman,
:19:22. > :19:29.joints me now. Let's begin with the bedroom tax or bedroom subsidy.
:19:30. > :19:33.Nearly 11% of people who've come off Housing Benefits all together after
:19:34. > :19:37.their spare room subsidy was stopped, isn't that proof that
:19:38. > :19:41.reform was necessary? No. I think that the whole way that the bet room
:19:42. > :19:45.tax has been attempted to be justified is completely wrong. What
:19:46. > :19:49.it's said is that it will actually help take people off the waiting
:19:50. > :19:55.lists by putting them into homes that have been vacated by people
:19:56. > :19:59.who've downsized by being incentivised by the bedroom tax so
:20:00. > :20:03.basically if you are a council tenant or Housing Association tenant
:20:04. > :20:06.in a property with spare bedrooms, then because the penalty is imposed,
:20:07. > :20:11.you will move to a smaller property. That is the justification for it.
:20:12. > :20:14.But actually, something like 96 of the people who're going to be hit by
:20:15. > :20:18.the bedroom tax, there isn't a smaller property for them to move
:20:19. > :20:21.into. I understand that. Therefore they are, like the people in my
:20:22. > :20:27.constituency, if they have got one spare bedroom, they are hit by 700
:20:28. > :20:32.a year extra to pay and that is completely unfair As a consequence
:20:33. > :20:37.of people losing the subsidy for their spare room, they have decided
:20:38. > :20:41.to go out and get work and not depend on Housing Benefit at all?
:20:42. > :20:46.11% of them. What's wrong with that? Well, they are going to review the
:20:47. > :20:51.way 2 the bedroom tax is working. What is wrong with that? But that's
:20:52. > :20:55.not working. That's the result of Freedom of Information, 141 councils
:20:56. > :21:00.provided the figures, 25,000 who've come off benefits, of the 233,0 0
:21:01. > :21:03.affected, it's about 11%. These people were clearly able to get a
:21:04. > :21:07.job was having the Housing Benefit in the first place? But of course
:21:08. > :21:12.the people who're on the benefits who're not in work are always
:21:13. > :21:15.looking for work and many of them will find work which is a good
:21:16. > :21:20.thing, but for those who don't find work, or who find work where it s
:21:21. > :21:25.low-paid and need help with their rent, it's wrong to penalise them on
:21:26. > :21:28.the basis of the fact that their family might have grown up and moved
:21:29. > :21:32.away and so you have either got to move out of your home, away from
:21:33. > :21:37.your family and your neighbourhood, or you've got to stay where you are
:21:38. > :21:41.and, despite the fact that you are low-paid or unemployed, you have got
:21:42. > :21:45.to find an extra ?700 a year because of your rent. So it's very unfair
:21:46. > :21:48.The Government that was commissioning independent research
:21:49. > :21:52.on the impact of this work change and welfare policy, particularly on
:21:53. > :21:55.the impact on the most vulnerable, some of which you have been talking
:21:56. > :21:59.about there, shouldn't they have waited until you have got the
:22:00. > :22:02.independent research, that independent investigation before
:22:03. > :22:06.determining your policy? No. In fact, the Government should have
:22:07. > :22:09.waited until they'd have done their independent research before they
:22:10. > :22:16.bought into effect something and imposed it on people in a way which
:22:17. > :22:20.is really unfair. They could have known. Why didn't you wait? What
:22:21. > :22:23.they could have done is, they could have asked councils, are people
:22:24. > :22:28.going to be able to Manifest into smaller homes if we impose the
:22:29. > :22:31.bedroom tax and the answer from councils and Housing Associations
:22:32. > :22:34.would have been no, they can't move into smaller homes because which
:22:35. > :22:38.haven't got them there. They should have done the evaluation before they
:22:39. > :22:42.introduced the policy. We are absolutely clear and you can see the
:22:43. > :22:45.evidence, people are falling into rent arrears. Many people, it's a
:22:46. > :22:49.terrifying thing to find that you can't pay your rent, and some of the
:22:50. > :22:54.people go to payday loan companies to get loans to pay their rent. It
:22:55. > :22:58.is very, very unfair. The justification for it, which is
:22:59. > :23:04.people will move, is completely bogus. There aren't places for them
:23:05. > :23:09.to go. On the wider issue of welfare reform, a call for the TUC showed
:23:10. > :23:12.that voters support the Government's welfare reforms, including a
:23:13. > :23:16.majority of Labour voters. Why are you so out of touch on welfare
:23:17. > :23:20.issues, even with your own supporters? Nobody wants to see
:23:21. > :23:24.people who could be in a job actually living at the taxpayers'
:23:25. > :23:28.expense. That's why we have said that we'll introduce a compulsory
:23:29. > :23:32.jobs guarantee, so that if you are a young person who's been unemployed
:23:33. > :23:36.for a year, you will have to take a job absolutely have to take a job,
:23:37. > :23:39.and if you have been unemployed as somebody over 25, there'll be a
:23:40. > :23:44.compulsory thing after two years of unemployment. So if you have been on
:23:45. > :23:48.welfare two years? So the main issue about the welfare bill actually is
:23:49. > :23:51.people who're in retirement who need support. We have said for the
:23:52. > :23:56.richest pensioners, they shouldn't have to pay their winter fuel
:23:57. > :24:01.allowance. My point wasn't abouts the sub stance, it's about how you
:24:02. > :24:05.don't reflect public opinion -- substance. The Parliamentary aid
:24:06. > :24:11.said the political backlog of benefits and social security is "not
:24:12. > :24:16.yet one that we have won. Labour must accept that they are not
:24:17. > :24:20.convincing on these matters,". Well, redo have to convince people and
:24:21. > :24:24.explain the policies we have got and the view we take. So, for example,
:24:25. > :24:27.for pensioners, who're well off we are saying they don't need the
:24:28. > :24:31.Winter Fuel Payment that. 's me saying to you and us saying to
:24:32. > :24:36.people in this country, we do think that there should be that
:24:37. > :24:39.tightening. For young people, who've been unemployed, they should be
:24:40. > :24:44.offered jobs but they've got to take them. So yes, we have to make our
:24:45. > :24:49.case. OK. The energy freeze which we showed there, on the speech, as
:24:50. > :24:52.popular. The living wage proseles have been going down well as well.
:24:53. > :24:57.Why is Labour's lead oaf the Conservatives being cut to 6% in the
:24:58. > :25:01.latest polls? Ed Miliband's own personal approval rating's gotten
:25:02. > :25:05.worse. Why is that? I'm not going to disdues ins and outs of weekly
:25:06. > :25:09.opinion polls with you or anybody else because I'm not a political
:25:10. > :25:13.commentator, but let me say to you the facts of what's happened since
:25:14. > :25:21.Ed Miliband's been leader of the Labour Party. We have got 1,950 New
:25:22. > :25:24.Labour councillors, all of those... But you're... All those who've won
:25:25. > :25:26.their seats against the Conservatives or the Liberal
:25:27. > :25:31.Democrats and no, Andrew you don't always get that in opposition. In
:25:32. > :25:37.1997 after Tony Blair was elected, the Tories carried on losing council
:25:38. > :25:43.seats. Exceptional circumstances and these days Mr Blair was 25% ahead in
:25:44. > :25:48.the polls. You were six. The economy grew at an annual rate of 3% in the
:25:49. > :25:51.third quarter just gone. Everybody, private and public forecasters now
:25:52. > :25:56.saying that Britain in this coming year will grow faster than France,
:25:57. > :26:00.Italy, Spain, even Germany will grow faster. Your poll ratings are
:26:01. > :26:03.average when the economy was flatlining, what happens to them
:26:04. > :26:09.when the economy starts to grow Well, I've just said to you, I'm not
:26:10. > :26:12.a political commentator or a pundit on opinion polls. We are putting
:26:13. > :26:15.policies forward and we are holding the Government to account for what
:26:16. > :26:20.they are doing and we think that what they did opt economy pulled the
:26:21. > :26:24.plugs from the economy, delayed the recovery, made it stagnate and we
:26:25. > :26:29.have had three years lost growth. I understand that, but it's now
:26:30. > :26:34.starting to grow. Indeed. If you are no political commentator, let me ask
:26:35. > :26:37.you this, you anticipated the growth, so you switched your line to
:26:38. > :26:42.no growth to this is growth and living standards are rising. If the
:26:43. > :26:45.economy does grow up towards 3% next year, I would suggest that living
:26:46. > :26:48.standards probably will start to rise with that amount of growth
:26:49. > :26:52.What do you do then? We have not switched our line because the
:26:53. > :26:56.economy started to grow. All the way along, we said the economy will
:26:57. > :27:00.recover, but it's been delayed and we have had stagnation for far too
:27:01. > :27:04.long because of the economic policies. We have been absolutely
:27:05. > :27:08.right to understand the concerns people have and recognise that they
:27:09. > :27:12.are struggling with the cost-of-living. Sure. And we are
:27:13. > :27:18.right to do that. What kind of living standards stuck to rise next
:27:19. > :27:22.year? -- start to rise next year. I hope they will. For 40 months of
:27:23. > :27:27.David Cameron's Prime Ministership, for 39 of those, wages have risen
:27:28. > :27:31.slower than prices, so people are worse off. I understand that. You
:27:32. > :27:34.will know that the broader measurement, real household
:27:35. > :27:37.disposable income doesn't show that decline because it takes everything
:27:38. > :27:43.into account. Going around the country, people feel it. They say
:27:44. > :27:48.where's the recovery for me. Living standards now start to rise? If that
:27:49. > :27:52.happens, what is your next line There is a set of arguments about
:27:53. > :27:57.living standards, the National Health Service, about the problems
:27:58. > :28:01.that there is in A, which caused -- are caused by the organisation. I
:28:02. > :28:07.can put forward other lines. All right. Let me ask you one other
:28:08. > :28:12.question If no newspapers have signed up to the Government-backed
:28:13. > :28:16.Labour-backed Royal Charter on press regular lace by 2015 and it looks
:28:17. > :28:21.like the way things are going none will have, if you are in power, will
:28:22. > :28:25.a Labour Government legislate to make them? They don't have to sign
:28:26. > :28:29.up to the Royal Charter, that's not the system. What the Royal Charter
:28:30. > :28:32.does is create a recogniser and basically says it's for the
:28:33. > :28:37.newspapers to set up their own regulator. They are doing that. My
:28:38. > :28:40.question is... Let me finish. If they decide to have nothing to do
:28:41. > :28:44.with the Royal Charter that was decided in Miliband's office in the
:28:45. > :28:47.wee small hours, will you pass legislation to make them? The
:28:48. > :28:52.newspapers are currently setting up what they call... I know that,
:28:53. > :28:57.Harriet Harman. Just let me finish. OK. Because the newspapers are
:28:58. > :29:01.setting up the independent Press Standards Organisation. Right. If it
:29:02. > :29:05.is independent, as they say it is, then the recogniser will simply say,
:29:06. > :29:08.we recognise that this is independent and the whole point is
:29:09. > :29:12.that, in the past when there's been skaen deals a tend press have really
:29:13. > :29:17.turned people's lives upside down and the press have said OK we'll
:29:18. > :29:21.sort things out, leave it to us then they have sorted things out but
:29:22. > :29:25.a few years later they have slipped back, all this recogniser will do is
:29:26. > :29:28.check it once every three years and say yes, you have got an independent
:29:29. > :29:32.system and it's remained independent and therefore that is the guarantee
:29:33. > :29:35.things won't slip back. Very interesting. Thank you for that
:29:36. > :29:40.That's really interesting that if they get their act right, you won't
:29:41. > :29:47.force the alternative on them. We want the system as set forward by
:29:48. > :29:51.Leveson which is not statute and direct regulation. I want to stick
:29:52. > :29:54.with the press because I want to ask, is this a British institution
:29:55. > :29:58.or an out-of-date image for a by gone age. The Sun's Page 3 has been
:29:59. > :30:05.dividing the nation since it first appeared way back in 1970. That s 43
:30:06. > :30:09.years ago. Harriet Harman's called for it to be removed, so we sent
:30:10. > :30:26.Adam out to ask whether the topless photographs should stay or go. We
:30:27. > :30:40.have asked people if page three should stay or go. Page three. What
:30:41. > :30:48.do you think? Nothing wrong with it at all. I think it is cheap and
:30:49. > :31:00.exploits women. It is a family newspaper. Should it stay or go Go.
:31:01. > :31:14.I will look like the bad guy. It should go. You have changed your
:31:15. > :31:21.mind. It is free choice. Girls do not have to be photographed. Old men
:31:22. > :31:34.get the paper just for that. Know when your age does that? Not really.
:31:35. > :31:43.Dashes-macro know what your age Page three girls, should they stay
:31:44. > :31:48.or go? I am not bothered. There are other ways of getting noticed. Page
:31:49. > :31:56.three of the Sun newspaper every day, there is a woman with no top
:31:57. > :32:02.on. We got rid of that about 40 years ago in Australia. I am not in
:32:03. > :32:11.favour of censorship. It has been long enough. It can stay there. What
:32:12. > :32:14.is wrong with it? We want to encourage children to read the
:32:15. > :32:20.newspapers. I do not want my children to look at that. It is
:32:21. > :32:29.degrading. Do you think we will see the day when they get rid of it
:32:30. > :32:42.Yes, I do. I am wondering if I can turn this into some kind of a
:32:43. > :32:48.shelter. It is tipping it down. I think the council should do
:32:49. > :32:56.something about their car parks Mother nature, the human body. It
:32:57. > :33:02.should stay. Is some people like it, that is fine. I have nothing against
:33:03. > :33:07.it. You know what has surprised me, lots of women saying it should stay.
:33:08. > :33:14.Maybe they are seeing it as empowering. As I have a baby
:33:15. > :33:25.daughter in there, I am happy to see it go. Imagine my grandad opening up
:33:26. > :33:35.his paper and they're being my bats! It should go. There is nothing wrong
:33:36. > :33:43.with it. He wants it to go. What about people who think that page
:33:44. > :33:52.three should be banned? Idiots. Do you know a girl called Lacey, aged
:33:53. > :33:58.22, from Bedford? Good luck to her. I do not know her as a person that I
:33:59. > :34:06.have heard she is nice. What about her decision to be on page three?
:34:07. > :34:15.Nothing to lose. Do you think she has made Bedford proud? That is not
:34:16. > :34:24.hard. What have we learned? More people want page three to stay down
:34:25. > :34:30.for it to go. Most people do not really seem to care, do they? You
:34:31. > :34:35.have heard a range of views. I am not arguing it should be banned I
:34:36. > :34:41.have not argued for it to be banned but I have disapproved of it since
:34:42. > :34:53.the 1970s. You do not think it should be banned? I do not think
:34:54. > :34:59.there should be dictating content but I do think, if you arrive from
:35:00. > :35:01.outer space in this country in 21st-century Britain, and asked
:35:02. > :35:06.yourself what was the role of women in society... To stand in their
:35:07. > :35:11.knickers and nothing else, I think women have more to aspire to than to
:35:12. > :35:21.be able to take their clothes off in public. The sun no longer has the
:35:22. > :35:26.circulation, or the political importance, that it had in the 980s
:35:27. > :35:31.when page three was at its height. Aren't people just voting with their
:35:32. > :35:38.feet anyway? The market is sorting this out. Half the number of people
:35:39. > :35:43.buy it now than they did 20 years ago. Until the time the sun does not
:35:44. > :35:51.have page three any more, I am entitled to my view that it is
:35:52. > :35:59.outdated and wrong. I am happy to establish that you do not want to
:36:00. > :36:04.ban it. What should happen? Should people boycott the paper? I have
:36:05. > :36:11.never implied or said it should be banned. I have always been
:36:12. > :36:16.forthright. Should people boycott the paper? I have not called for a
:36:17. > :36:22.boycott. The women's movement, of which I am part, and this is not
:36:23. > :36:26.about politicians censoring the press. I am part of the movement
:36:27. > :36:33.which says women can do better than taking off their clothes and being
:36:34. > :36:40.in their knickers in the newspapers. Why don't you do something about it?
:36:41. > :36:47.I am doing something about it by saying it is outdated. I am not
:36:48. > :36:53.doing anything more about it. Should people buy the paper as long as
:36:54. > :36:57.there is a page three? Would you like to say to viewers, as long as
:36:58. > :37:06.page three is in the sand, you should not buy it? Dashes-macro be
:37:07. > :37:11.Son. I am saying, wake up to what the role of women in society should
:37:12. > :37:14.be, which is more than page three. If they changed it in Australia
:37:15. > :37:22.which is where Rupert Murdoch came from, why can they not change it in
:37:23. > :37:25.this country? You're watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just
:37:26. > :37:37.over 20 minutes... I'll be talking to man leading the
:37:38. > :37:44.Thank you and welcome to the part of the programme that is just for us
:37:45. > :37:47.here in the West. Coming up today, has a Somali terrorist organisation
:37:48. > :37:53.recruited members from the West In this propaganda video, Al`Shabab, a
:37:54. > :37:56.group related to Al`Qaeda, claims to have recruited fighters from
:37:57. > :38:03.Bristol. The police tell us this is untrue but one local councillor
:38:04. > :38:07.still has some concerns. We will be discussing cameras and much more
:38:08. > :38:13.with our guest today, Sophy Gardner from Gloucester and the conservative
:38:14. > :38:17.from Yeovil, Marcus Fysh. But first, across the nation,
:38:18. > :38:21.millions have been reflecting on the sacrifice of service men and women
:38:22. > :38:25.who have given their lives for this country. Remembrance Sunday is away
:38:26. > :38:33.is a poignant today and next year marks the 100th anniversary of the
:38:34. > :38:37.first World War `` First World War. We have been asking local people why
:38:38. > :38:43.they think poppies are still important.
:38:44. > :38:49.Today, I chose to wear one because I thought I would make some small
:38:50. > :38:53.contribution to soldiers whom a lot of effort in Afghanistan and I
:38:54. > :39:02.wanted to give some formal recognition to them.
:39:03. > :39:05.I might not support war but I do support the decent treatment of
:39:06. > :39:12.those who have fought for their country, whether I think their cause
:39:13. > :39:17.is right or wrong. I'm supporting a really good cause and I think
:39:18. > :39:29.everyone should remember. It is what we do. It is a matter of respect for
:39:30. > :39:37.people and the sacrifices they make for their country. And joining me
:39:38. > :39:43.now is the belch MP Doctor Andrew Merson, who is in charge of the
:39:44. > :39:47.celebrations for the members of the 100th anniversary of the First World
:39:48. > :39:51.War. Why are we marking the beginning of the war rather than its
:39:52. > :39:58.end? The first thing to say that this is a commemoration, it is in no
:39:59. > :40:01.way a celebration. And during this four`year period, we will be doing
:40:02. > :40:04.everything we can to encourage people to thing about the causes,
:40:05. > :40:09.conduct and consequences of this extraordinary moment in our history
:40:10. > :40:14.which, whether we realise it on a day`to`day basis or not, really does
:40:15. > :40:21.influence everything that relates to our modern world. It is incredibly
:40:22. > :40:26.important. It is right we do what we can to explore it in all of its
:40:27. > :40:30.manifestations and that is what the centenary will be about. Why the
:40:31. > :40:34.beginning and not the end? It is an integral part of the whole story and
:40:35. > :40:41.there is international agreement that this event is so huge that we
:40:42. > :40:44.have to explore it in its entirety. But the Prime Minister once, in his
:40:45. > :40:51.words, a commemoration that like the diamond to believe says something
:40:52. > :40:59.about who we are as a people. That was a bit of a knees up. This will
:41:00. > :41:03.be very different. It needs to be a commemoration and not a celebration.
:41:04. > :41:09.The Prime Minister is utterly clear about that. This is a commemoration
:41:10. > :41:33.and its tone will be profoundly different. So it is not cheering
:41:34. > :41:35.crowds in the mouth Mall? I think foremost amongst those
:41:36. > :41:41.countries are the Germans, of course. The Germans also want the
:41:42. > :41:44.European Union recognised for bringing Europe together, to make
:41:45. > :41:48.sure another conflict like that would be unthinkable. Do you go
:41:49. > :41:53.along with that? A celebration of Europe? I think different countries
:41:54. > :41:59.will approach this in a different way and they will have their own
:42:00. > :42:04.stories and narratives. I don't think the European `` the part that
:42:05. > :42:07.the European Union has played in the past decade will be a prominent part
:42:08. > :42:12.of our commemoration but of course it is open to countries like Germany
:42:13. > :42:19.and others to approach this in a way that they think best fits their
:42:20. > :42:23.narrative. Was it a just war? That is a vexed question. I hope it will
:42:24. > :42:27.be debated over the four`year period. What I'm clear about is that
:42:28. > :42:36.if IM in the position of administering the government that
:42:37. > :42:40.took the country to war at the time, I would have made the same decision
:42:41. > :42:44.based on the information available to me. We debated some of those
:42:45. > :42:48.issues and I think there was a lot of consensus found. While I have you
:42:49. > :42:53.here, is it right that 16 year roles should be allowed to join the Army?
:42:54. > :42:57.The Army is breaking on training young people and when they join the
:42:58. > :43:01.Army, they go through an extensive period of training and cannot enter
:43:02. > :43:06.a combat role until they achieve their majority, so that has been the
:43:07. > :43:10.case for a while and I think most people would accept that as being
:43:11. > :43:16.reasonable. Thank you for joining us. We will be seeing a lot of you
:43:17. > :43:21.over the next 12 months. Let us turn to our guests. Sophy,
:43:22. > :43:29.you were a Wing Commander. Is the government getting the tone of these
:43:30. > :43:33.events right? It is hard to say there is a lot to come out. The most
:43:34. > :43:39.important thing that it is solemnly commemorated. I was at the Cenotaph
:43:40. > :43:44.in 2008 when it was the 90th anniversary of the end of the first
:43:45. > :43:49.World War with the three last surviving soldiers of the First
:43:50. > :43:54.World War. Getting the tone right is what we are seeking to achieve
:43:55. > :43:56.rather than anything veering towards the Diamond Jubilee. It is important
:43:57. > :43:59.we are working with the German government on this. We built on the
:44:00. > :44:05.bomber command Memorial with them and so there is an inscription to
:44:06. > :44:08.all people who died. Will they come a time when we actually draw a line
:44:09. > :44:14.under the First World War and say this is now ancient history? I
:44:15. > :44:23.really don't because I think it is 16 the important that we do remember
:44:24. > :44:29.`` extremely important and that we do remember that it was a war that
:44:30. > :44:32.was completely different in character and nature than to
:44:33. > :44:39.anything we had seen before and the scale of the losses was so great
:44:40. > :44:47.that it truly traumatised both nations in very different ways.
:44:48. > :44:51.Thank you. We have to move on. Back in 1914, we knew who the enemy was.
:44:52. > :44:56.Today, it is not so clear. Here in the West, police have been examining
:44:57. > :45:00.a video released by the terrorist group Al`Shabab who have linked to
:45:01. > :45:06.Al`Qaeda. It follows claims they recruited members for Bristol for
:45:07. > :45:11.the local holy war. Al`Shabab is a terrorist
:45:12. > :45:14.organisation with links to Al`Qaeda. In this propaganda video, probably
:45:15. > :45:19.filmed in Somalia, where the group originates, their messages aimed at
:45:20. > :45:26.Britain. We are accompanied by brothers from London, Liverpool
:45:27. > :45:29.Bristol and Cardiff. The group are believed to be responsible for the
:45:30. > :45:34.deaths of at least 67 people, some of whom were British, when militants
:45:35. > :45:41.stormed this night robe each shopping centre on the 21st of
:45:42. > :45:44.September. `` Nairobi. Al`Shabab claims they have recruited members
:45:45. > :45:52.from the streets of Bristol. Nevertheless, this propaganda video
:45:53. > :46:00.has raised concerns in the community. This woman is the first
:46:01. > :46:07.Somali born councillor in Britain. She worked closely with the growing
:46:08. > :46:11.community. There are now thought to be over 20,000 Somalis living in the
:46:12. > :46:17.city. As austerity continues to bite and communities and families are
:46:18. > :46:21.poorer, young men in particular are disenfranchised and shut up from
:46:22. > :46:28.society. What are the chances of them being radicalised? What are the
:46:29. > :46:30.chances of someone with negative intentions coming along and
:46:31. > :46:36.providing them with an outlet for that? Officers from Avon and
:46:37. > :46:40.Somerset have examined the video. Basic amenity teams work closely
:46:41. > :46:43.with local mosques and community leaders in the city. They were
:46:44. > :46:48.tipped off by the community about Andrew Ibrahim, a young Muslim
:46:49. > :46:55.convert, convicted of planning a terrorist bomb attack in Bristol in
:46:56. > :47:00.2009. We are aware of the video and we know that Bristol was mentioned
:47:01. > :47:04.among lots of other cities in Britain. Whilst we are never
:47:05. > :47:08.complacent, we are relaxed about the situation in Bristol. We have
:47:09. > :47:13.excellent committee relations with the communities in Bristol and we
:47:14. > :47:18.have not done any tension from the video and we are confident that we
:47:19. > :47:21.never would. Working with the community is an ethos shed at the
:47:22. > :47:29.school, where many of the local Somali children are pupils. Here we
:47:30. > :47:39.have 60 countries of origin and some of them are from very `` very Ramon
:47:40. > :47:46.parts of Africa. We don't allow any separation or any sense of exclusion
:47:47. > :47:56.to come in, to allow separation to creep in. We spent a lot of money on
:47:57. > :48:02.blazers so they feel part of the community. It is a modern cancer,
:48:03. > :48:08.poverty, and so we have adapted to tackle that. There are students who
:48:09. > :48:14.claim for free school meals and that has increased in the last four
:48:15. > :48:18.years. With concerns about children falling into poverty, there are
:48:19. > :48:23.concerns they could become radicalised. There is no evidence
:48:24. > :48:27.that people have fallen for this Al`Shabab propaganda but the British
:48:28. > :48:34.authorities are keeping a close aye on things.
:48:35. > :48:38.Letters pick up on that. Is there a concern that poverty could be a
:48:39. > :48:43.driving force for radicalisation? I think there is or is a risk and we
:48:44. > :48:47.as a society need to make sure that nobody forced through the cracks and
:48:48. > :48:52.that we notice when somebody is honourable to radicalisation of any
:48:53. > :48:58.kind. I think it is very important that we do have the strong
:48:59. > :49:01.leadership in the country and the resources for our security forces
:49:02. > :49:06.for our police to do their job and I think they have those tools at the
:49:07. > :49:12.moment. We also need to make sure that all of our social services are
:49:13. > :49:20.looking at these things as well Are we winning the ideological war? The
:49:21. > :49:25.ideological war in the sense... I don't think there is an ideological
:49:26. > :49:32.war in the sense that terrorism for most people is just utterly wrong
:49:33. > :49:42.and file on any side and so I am unhappy with the term war on terror.
:49:43. > :49:45.I was in America on the day of 11 because I conceded originally were
:49:46. > :49:51.heading and I didn't like it. Now, they are doing great work on the
:49:52. > :49:55.local level in Bristol and she is the right person to be doing that
:49:56. > :50:00.work. Around the country, there is good work being done on
:50:01. > :50:05.radicalisation and online activity. We are heading in the right
:50:06. > :50:09.direction. Some people would think why did we allow Sony people to come
:50:10. > :50:18.to this country who do not share our values? `` so many people. It is
:50:19. > :50:24.vital that we do not let immigration cloud our view on criminals. That is
:50:25. > :50:30.not the same as all people who are immigrants or emigrants out of this
:50:31. > :50:34.country. We should be very careful, it is not the same as being as them.
:50:35. > :50:45.My set mother is a muslin. I have no problem with that. `` my stepmother
:50:46. > :50:50.is a Muslim. The police are monitoring many conversations
:50:51. > :50:53.online. Is that justified? One of the reasons we are able to go about
:50:54. > :50:58.our daily lives in the way we have done for many decades in a freeway
:50:59. > :51:04.in this country is because we have is we have a strong outer ring, so
:51:05. > :51:08.we have a capable militarily, we have capable security services. Is
:51:09. > :51:14.that worth the price of having people snooping? I think it is. It
:51:15. > :51:22.is a very bottom part about information set. We need to be
:51:23. > :51:28.careful before we allow our techniques to become known to the
:51:29. > :51:31.people who would hurt us and I think that is a bit of a risk. We have to
:51:32. > :51:36.leave it there because we need to talk about money. With council is
:51:37. > :51:41.working on their budgets, one area now being lined up for cuts is
:51:42. > :51:46.children centres. Swindon is slicing hundreds of thousands from what it
:51:47. > :51:49.spends about Somerset proposes changes to dozens of centres. The
:51:50. > :51:54.first big flash point could come on Wednesday in Bath, over a planned ?2
:51:55. > :52:04.million cut. It is stories time at Parkside is
:52:05. > :52:10.children centre. `` Parkside Children's Centre. Many feel that
:52:11. > :52:16.the wolf is at the door for these centres. They want to cut their
:52:17. > :52:21.funding by the 40%. It has sparked a big risk campaign by their
:52:22. > :52:29.opponents. These children's centres provide a huge range of activities
:52:30. > :52:32.that provide universal services for parents and parents who are in
:52:33. > :52:38.particular need. If there is a 2.3 million cut, 50% of most of the
:52:39. > :52:47.services will go because 50% of staff will be cut. It has alarmed
:52:48. > :52:51.Betty Williams, she got help after suffering postnatal depression. To
:52:52. > :53:01.get that support and even tips to deal with things going on in my
:53:02. > :53:13.life... So impressed was sheep by the Russ Doctor consider that she ``
:53:14. > :53:18.Radstock to centre. If it was cut, it would be devastating to some
:53:19. > :53:26.parents. The council hope that all will stay open with help from
:53:27. > :53:29.volunteers and other organisations. their spending will be targeted at
:53:30. > :53:33.the most needy. There are other authorities that are cutting
:53:34. > :53:41.children's centres and what we are seeking to do is to retain all of
:53:42. > :53:45.our centres and make them be as effective and efficient as possible.
:53:46. > :53:48.The councils will face protests when they make their controversial
:53:49. > :53:57.decision. It is not just down to who is decided by the Cabinet. Enough
:53:58. > :54:02.people signed a petition that it will be debated at a council
:54:03. > :54:08.meeting. The future of these controversial changes is far from
:54:09. > :54:11.certain. Back in Radstock, Betty Williams is enjoying being a parent.
:54:12. > :54:17.She was to make sure others get the same help. I know what it was like
:54:18. > :54:22.before we had the centres, so we don't want that for them because
:54:23. > :54:25.that is quite a scary prospect. And I know that if these cuts come
:54:26. > :54:31.through, it will be targeted but I don't think that is good enough
:54:32. > :54:35.Every child should get the support. For many councils, the easy cuts
:54:36. > :54:42.have been made. Now, the next generation will start to feel the
:54:43. > :54:50.effects of the age of austerities Dine Romero joins us in the studio.
:54:51. > :54:56.We saw you in the film for sub why are you making this cut? Overall,
:54:57. > :55:02.although we are quite wealthy, we are faced with cuts that are
:55:03. > :55:07.unprecedented since World War II. We have had to take a ?30 million cut
:55:08. > :55:12.over the next two years in order to balance our books. We'd have thought
:55:13. > :55:19.that children's services would have been towards the bottom of the list
:55:20. > :55:25.will stop. We asked that the last Budget meeting for our scrutiny
:55:26. > :55:30.panel to go away and look at what services were needed and what was
:55:31. > :55:35.vital for the well`being of our young people and our families within
:55:36. > :55:42.a community. And these are not vital? They are vital. We are not
:55:43. > :55:50.closing any of the centres. But you have reduced their Budget by 40 ? We
:55:51. > :55:52.have reduced our Budget but we are looking at trying to create a new
:55:53. > :55:55.model that we will be working with our partners and volunteer groups in
:55:56. > :56:05.order to deliver these vital services. Let us bring in our other
:56:06. > :56:08.guests. Are these justified? Cuts to children's services are always
:56:09. > :56:16.worrying. It is happening across the country. In Swindon, there have been
:56:17. > :56:25.a lot of campaigns will stop the early years are vital. We are
:56:26. > :56:29.looking at local government and a tax on those services for young
:56:30. > :56:35.people. So Labour councillors would not cut? We cannot say what we would
:56:36. > :56:40.do in future but just to say we have got a costed proposal to improve
:56:41. > :56:46.hours of childcare. Let us talk about the politics of it. The Lib
:56:47. > :56:54.Dems want to do it in Bath and the Tories are opposing it? It is
:56:55. > :56:58.Labour. The Tories looked at what could be done without children
:56:59. > :57:06.services. So they are not opposing it? They have worked with us on it.
:57:07. > :57:13.They have asked for a rethink, as I understand. What were doing in
:57:14. > :57:17.Somerset is coming up with ways of producing a new model for delivering
:57:18. > :57:26.children centres. So you have asked for a rethink in some areas but in
:57:27. > :57:29.Somerset you want a cut? We will invest more money in front line
:57:30. > :57:32.services, we will cut back on management and administration costs
:57:33. > :57:41.which Ashley take up half of our Budget there. This is money we have
:57:42. > :57:46.to save but we need to make our services more flexible. How do you
:57:47. > :57:52.make services better with less money? You have to be creative, you
:57:53. > :57:56.have to look at who else is out there that has local knowledge, who
:57:57. > :58:02.else can help you in delivering the services. You are looking at
:58:03. > :58:06.volunteer groups, charities, all sorts of other partners and one of
:58:07. > :58:10.the big benefits from other partners is they can actually drawn funds
:58:11. > :58:17.that as a council we are not able to do. In a word, will you climb down
:58:18. > :58:22.all this go ahead? At the moment, it is a proposal, a plan, we need to
:58:23. > :58:29.look at it and see how it can be delivered. That will form the
:58:30. > :58:33.discussion on Wednesday and the overall decision does not happen
:58:34. > :58:40.until February, at our next Budget. Thank you for coming in. Time for
:58:41. > :58:48.our round`up in six T seconds. `` 60 seconds.
:58:49. > :58:50.Three people died on to accidents on the outskirts of Gloucester. The
:58:51. > :58:53.leader of Gloucestershire County Council has written to the Transport
:58:54. > :58:57.Secretary demanding action. We need to stop this being not only a
:58:58. > :59:01.bottleneck but also a really dangerous stretch of road.
:59:02. > :59:04.Firefighters across the West went on strike again as part of a national
:59:05. > :59:10.row over changes to pensions. The government is playing to increase
:59:11. > :59:14.the retirement age from 55 to 6 . The chief Gaza border they then and
:59:15. > :59:19.Somerset police says that keenly Felix need to be rebuilt following
:59:20. > :59:26.the death of one man. They described his murder in Bristol as an horrific
:59:27. > :59:31.incident. The IPCC are investigating the police's investigation.
:59:32. > :59:34.A court has ruled that Somerset cows or acted illegally it cut youth
:59:35. > :59:39.services. Judges at the Court of Appeal said the council failed to
:59:40. > :59:45.insult young people adequately and when they voted through the cuts
:59:46. > :59:49.last year. That was the week just gone. Let us
:59:50. > :59:53.pick up quickly on the judicial reviews that seem to be going into
:59:54. > :59:57.anything. Are there too many now? There are a lot of them but it is
:59:58. > :00:00.important that the principle of being able to account for the
:00:01. > :00:05.sessions and check they are legal issues the vital. The Prime Minister
:00:06. > :00:10.said they were a growing industry, didn't he? It is important they are
:00:11. > :00:15.based on something real and I think the changes that the prime and is
:00:16. > :00:21.the once I just to limit some of the timescales in it. It is important, I
:00:22. > :00:25.agree. That is all we have time for. Thank you to Sophy Gardner and
:00:26. > :00:27.Marcus Fysh for joining us. We are back next week. See you then, now
:00:28. > :00:39.more equipment so they can see cyclists. Back to you, Andrew.
:00:40. > :00:43.We learned this week that no more warships will be built at
:00:44. > :00:47.Portsmouth, the home of the Royal Navy since the days of the Mary Rose
:00:48. > :00:50.and Francis Drake. But has the city been sacrificed to save jobs on the
:00:51. > :00:55.Clyde in Scotland? Is England the loser in an effort to keep the
:00:56. > :01:04.United Kingdom intact? Let's speak to Eddie Bone, he leads the campaign
:01:05. > :01:08.for an English Parliament. Is England the loser in this attempt to
:01:09. > :01:17.doubt, Andrew. We would look at it from the campaign for the English
:01:18. > :01:21.Parliament that the British governance is bribing the Scots to
:01:22. > :01:27.stay with the union at the cost of English jobs. What is the best
:01:28. > :01:31.outcome for England when Scotland votes in the referendum next year?
:01:32. > :01:35.We have got to have an English parliament. What I mean by that is
:01:36. > :01:41.an endless governor and with a first minister speaking on behalf of the
:01:42. > :01:46.people of England. -- and English government. If Scotland votes for
:01:47. > :01:52.independence, that is the union coming to an end. It will be
:01:53. > :02:00.dissolved legally. England would be going to negotiating table without
:02:01. > :02:05.true representation. The union continues but it continues without
:02:06. > :02:09.Scotland. I want to come back to my... That is the constitutional
:02:10. > :02:14.position. You may not agree with me but that is the constitutional
:02:15. > :02:20.position. Do you want Scotland to vote for independence next year We
:02:21. > :02:26.want a fair deal with equality for England. If that can be maintained
:02:27. > :02:30.or England can have a fair deal within the union, that is brilliant.
:02:31. > :02:35.Let's have a federal system are all the nations are treated equally If
:02:36. > :02:44.that cannot happen and Scotland decides to stay, if Scotland goes,
:02:45. > :02:48.it is an independent England, isn't it? If Scotland votes to leave the
:02:49. > :02:52.union, what is left of the United Kingdom would be so dominated by
:02:53. > :02:58.England at Westminster would, in effect, Beale English Parliament,
:02:59. > :03:05.wouldn't it? I do not agree with you. I think that is a British, deny
:03:06. > :03:09.list approach. The act of union was a fusion with the King of England to
:03:10. > :03:14.the King of Scotland. That would come to an end. The Welsh are very
:03:15. > :03:19.concerned. They are a very small nation. If you have a botched
:03:20. > :03:23.British come English Parliament the Welsh would be in a very vulnerable
:03:24. > :03:29.situation. They would not be listened to. Also a situation with
:03:30. > :03:31.Northern Ireland. There are voices in Northern Ireland talking about
:03:32. > :03:36.trying to reunite Northern Ireland. It would be a very volatile
:03:37. > :03:41.situation. Would you prefer England to become an independent nation
:03:42. > :03:46.separate from what was left of the UK, which would be Wales and
:03:47. > :03:52.Northern Ireland? Would you like to see England have a seat in the UN? I
:03:53. > :03:58.want their representation for the people of England. English jobs were
:03:59. > :04:05.sacrificed because the British government wanted Scotland to
:04:06. > :04:14.remain... You have answered that very quickly. I am -- very clearly.
:04:15. > :04:20.Would you want England, without Northern Ireland and Wales to become
:04:21. > :04:24.a separate nation state? If that is what it takes for people of England
:04:25. > :04:29.to have their representation - representation that looks at
:04:30. > :04:32.policies of the NHS, education very different from Wales and Northern
:04:33. > :04:37.Ireland - then so be it. Independence will need to be the way
:04:38. > :04:48.forward. We have a small window of opportunity that the federal system
:04:49. > :04:57.might still work. D1 indenting have a system like Scotland? -- do you
:04:58. > :05:03.want England to have a system like Scotland? What we need to do now is
:05:04. > :05:08.implement the process is to get their representation for England. I
:05:09. > :05:14.would urge your viewers to join our campaign because it is the only way
:05:15. > :05:19.to protect jobs in England, protect the NHS, protect education.
:05:20. > :05:21.Otherwise we will see the people in England continually penalised by the
:05:22. > :05:27.British government is trying desperately to save the union by
:05:28. > :05:33.giving more to Scotland and Wales. Nice to talk to you. Helen, on this
:05:34. > :05:37.business of the Clyde versus Portsmouth, it would have been
:05:38. > :05:41.pretty inconceivable of the British government that believes in the
:05:42. > :05:47.union to have allowed the Clyde to close. That would have been a
:05:48. > :05:51.disaster. It would have been. It's dumped Nicola Sturgeon. Hang on a
:05:52. > :05:55.minute, if there was Scottish independence, England were not allow
:05:56. > :05:59.its warships to be built in a foreign country. She was unable to
:06:00. > :06:04.admit there were any downsides to Scottish independence. It would be
:06:05. > :06:09.dangerous for Scotland to talk about this. You have a Lib Dem and a
:06:10. > :06:14.Conservative MP with reasonable majorities. They will find that a
:06:15. > :06:19.killer on their doorstep in the next election. There are no results in
:06:20. > :06:25.this for Mr Cameron. He has one MP and he will be lucky to have two.
:06:26. > :06:30.And the South of England, I know Portsmouth is quite an industrial
:06:31. > :06:34.area, but the South of England is overall Tory territory. He has
:06:35. > :06:38.backed the Clyde where there are no Tory votes. The Tory problem in
:06:39. > :06:42.Scotland is crucial. The trend to look out for is the rise of English
:06:43. > :06:47.nationalism within the Conservative Party. They have the word Unionist
:06:48. > :06:51.in their official title. If, in election after election, they failed
:06:52. > :06:55.to win a significant presence in Scotland, and they are failing to
:06:56. > :07:01.win a majority in Westminster because of that, it is not hard to
:07:02. > :07:09.imagine that in ten years time that would be a party which has more
:07:10. > :07:14.autonomy. One person we know who does not sign up to that. David
:07:15. > :07:19.Cameron is a romantic Unionist at heart he may say that are not any
:07:20. > :07:25.vote in Scotland but he want to keep the union together. With the Clyde,
:07:26. > :07:29.you saw a rival together of economic and political interests. It is
:07:30. > :07:33.economic or the case the greatest shipbuilding capability in the
:07:34. > :07:36.United Kingdom is in the Clyde. It is politically very helpful for this
:07:37. > :07:40.government to say to people in Scotland, look at the benefits of
:07:41. > :07:45.being in the United Kingdom and under their breath, or in the case
:07:46. > :07:51.of Alistair Carmichael to a camera, look what might go if you leave
:07:52. > :07:55.That came together very conveniently to the government. Now, how do you
:07:56. > :07:59.like your politicians? Squeaky clean with an impeccable past? Or are you
:08:00. > :08:02.happy for them to have a few skeletons in the closet? Well, last
:08:03. > :08:05.week the Toronto Mayor Rob Ford admitted smoking crack cocaine. He
:08:06. > :08:08.said he took the drug about a year ago whilst in a drunken stupor. So,
:08:09. > :08:12.what impact do confessions have on a political career? In a moment, we'll
:08:13. > :08:21.hear what our panel has to say, but first, take a look at this. Yes I
:08:22. > :08:26.have smoked crack cocaine. Am I an addict? No. Have I tried it?
:08:27. > :08:33.Probably one of my drunken stupor is, about a year ago. I have used
:08:34. > :08:39.drugs in the past. I have used class a drugs in the past. About 30 years
:08:40. > :08:46.ago at university, I did smoke cannabis. I took cannabis is a few
:08:47. > :08:52.times at university and it was wrong. Have you snorted cocaine I
:08:53. > :09:17.tried to but unsuccessfully years ago. I sneezed. The people around
:09:18. > :09:24.you who took cocaine, they went .. Is it better to confess or the that
:09:25. > :09:30.get you into even more hot water? It is absolutely better. The confession
:09:31. > :09:37.by Jacqui Smith was without glamour. Finding a Labour politician who once
:09:38. > :09:42.smoked cannabis 25 years ago... I do not think it makes you think that
:09:43. > :09:46.she cannot be a serious politician. Politicians should brace thing about
:09:47. > :09:52.them which everyone knows. In the case of Ed Miliband, he should not
:09:53. > :10:04.deny being geeky. That would reek of in authenticity. The Tory MP meant
:10:05. > :10:09.to be regarded as a rising star turns out he was claiming to heat
:10:10. > :10:14.his horses stables at the expense of the tax payer. He had made a
:10:15. > :10:17.generous claim for energy bills in his constituency home. He went
:10:18. > :10:21.through the papers and found he had been using it to heat the stables
:10:22. > :10:28.and he laid it all out and did the right thing. He was completely
:10:29. > :10:36.honest. Is that the end of it? It will still haunt in because energy
:10:37. > :10:40.is such a big issue. He was right to be honest about it. Helen was
:10:41. > :10:45.saying, absolutely, you need to be honest about your past. Harriet
:10:46. > :10:50.Harman said she smoked pot at university. If you have smoked pot,
:10:51. > :10:57.you can have a front line career. If you have taken class a drugs, you
:10:58. > :11:00.cannot have a front line career There is the politician confessing
:11:01. > :11:04.and the remarkable willingness of the public to forgive. It is
:11:05. > :11:10.enlightened and progressive to forgive a politician for an affair
:11:11. > :11:15.or taking soft drugs at university. To smoke crack cocaine and demand be
:11:16. > :11:19.mad of following the Mayor of Toronto does astonishes me. There
:11:20. > :11:26.was an example in America a few years ago. It was crack cocaine He
:11:27. > :11:33.was elected having confessed to smoking crack cocaine. I draw the
:11:34. > :11:38.line around class a drugs. We will put the team on to investigate him.
:11:39. > :11:41.Help to Bible come back into the headlines again. Mr Cameron will
:11:42. > :11:46.surroundings by the people who are benefiting from buying their homes
:11:47. > :11:51.on this scheme in the same way that this is that you used to visit those
:11:52. > :11:55.who had bought their council houses. It will become hugely politicised.
:11:56. > :12:03.The Bank of England thinks that unemployment will drop late 201 ,
:12:04. > :12:08.early 2015. They will put interest rates up. Those with 95% mortgages
:12:09. > :12:13.will have two find an extra ?40 a month to pay them off. I would not
:12:14. > :12:26.be surprised if David Cameron is setting up himself with this
:12:27. > :12:34.trouble. They will not want to raise interest rates. Mark Carney was very
:12:35. > :12:38.careful to give himself three get out clauses. If unemployment hits a
:12:39. > :12:42.certain level, Key has three measures which have to be fulfilled
:12:43. > :12:47.before he goes ahead and raises interest rates. As a Tory
:12:48. > :12:51.strategist, would you rather go into the election with low and implement
:12:52. > :13:00.or low interest rates? I think they would stick to low interest rates.
:13:01. > :13:05.-- low unemployment. It is not just panellists who are raising questions
:13:06. > :13:12.about it, it is senior figures people in senior economic positions.
:13:13. > :13:15.They are saying the scheme is fine at the moment. David Cameron will be
:13:16. > :13:20.surrounded by people who have taken mortgages out at low levels and it
:13:21. > :13:26.is all fine right now but if interest rates go up, it will not be
:13:27. > :13:29.cosy. That's all folks. The Daily Politics is back tomorrow on BBC Two
:13:30. > :13:33.at midday. I'll be back next Sunday at the normal time of 11am.
:13:34. > :13:43.Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.