:00:38. > :00:46.morning, folks, welcome to the Sunday Politics. Rising flood water,
:00:47. > :00:50.a battered coastline, the winter storms forced the Government to take
:00:51. > :00:56.control. Is it hanging the Environment Agency out to dry?
:00:57. > :00:59.Embarrassment for the Government is the Immigration Minister resigns
:01:00. > :01:04.after he discovered he was employing a cleaner with no right to work here
:01:05. > :01:09.for seven years. Ed Miliband promised an end to what he called
:01:10. > :01:18.the machine politics of union fixes in the Labour Party,
:01:19. > :01:21.A row over smoking. Should your Council tax be used to pay for
:01:22. > :01:24.advertisements like In London after two days of
:01:25. > :01:34.disruption in the capital the Mayor Boris Johnson will be talking to ask
:01:35. > :01:40.about strife on the Underground All of that and after a week of very
:01:41. > :01:45.public coalition spats can David Cameron and Nick Clegg keep the
:01:46. > :01:51.coalition show on the road? Two senior party figures will go head to
:01:52. > :01:55.head. And with me, Helen Lewis, Nick Watt and Iain Martin who would not
:01:56. > :02:00.know they Somerset Levels from their Norfolk Broads, but that will not
:02:01. > :02:05.stop them tweeting their thoughts. We start with the strange Case of
:02:06. > :02:09.the Immigration Minister, his cleaner and some lost documents
:02:10. > :02:14.Yesterday Mark Harper tendered his resignation, telling the media he
:02:15. > :02:19.had discovered the cleaner who worked for him for seven years did
:02:20. > :02:23.not have the right to work in the UK. The Communities Secretary Eric
:02:24. > :02:28.Pickles said he had done the honourable thing. I was sad to see
:02:29. > :02:32.him go, he was a strong minister. Had he been a member of the public
:02:33. > :02:38.he would not have done anything wrong, but he set himself a very
:02:39. > :02:43.high standard and he felt that standard and honourably stood down.
:02:44. > :02:48.This would seem like a good resignation, maybe unlike the
:02:49. > :02:55.Baroness Scotland one years ago on a similar issue, but have we been told
:02:56. > :02:59.the full story? We wait to see that. Labour have picked up saying he is
:03:00. > :03:04.an honourable man, that the reason why he resigned is these very owners
:03:05. > :03:09.checks that landlords and employers will have to perform on employees
:03:10. > :03:16.over their documentation. The most interesting line is that, we do not
:03:17. > :03:21.require them to be experts or spot anything other than an obvious
:03:22. > :03:26.forgery. The suggestion that there is the document he was presented
:03:27. > :03:32.with originality, which he lost was on home office paper and was perhaps
:03:33. > :03:37.not entirely accurate. That is the embarrassment. He is the minister
:03:38. > :03:40.putting through a bill that will demand tougher checks on people and
:03:41. > :03:46.he himself did not do enough checks to discover she was illegal. There
:03:47. > :03:51.is an odd bit where he involves the home office later to check her out
:03:52. > :03:56.as well. He writes a resignation letter and he has to hold himself to
:03:57. > :04:01.pay higher standard. He has done the David Laws approach to this, resign
:04:02. > :04:09.quickly and he can come back. David Cameron wants him to return swiftly
:04:10. > :04:16.to the frontbenchers. He is a state school educated lad. He is the kind
:04:17. > :04:23.of Tory that the Tories are in short supply of. He is a rising star. I
:04:24. > :04:28.would caution on this idea that it is customary that whenever anyone
:04:29. > :04:32.resigns, it is always thought they will come straight back into office.
:04:33. > :04:38.If only the outside world worked like that. It is not, in a company
:04:39. > :04:45.if the HR person resigns, he is such a great chap he will be back next
:04:46. > :04:49.week. There is a silver lining for David Cameron is he has been able to
:04:50. > :04:56.move Harriet Bond up as he moves everyone up. But nobody will see her
:04:57. > :05:03.in the whips office because she is not allowed to appear on television.
:05:04. > :05:10.And if you three want to resign Do not hate you are coming back next
:05:11. > :05:15.week. But we will do it with honour. It has been a hellish week for
:05:16. > :05:20.residents of coastal areas with more storms bringing more flooding and
:05:21. > :05:23.after Prince Charles visited the Somerset Levels on Tuesday the
:05:24. > :05:29.Government has been keen to show it has got a grip on the situation at
:05:30. > :05:35.last. For last weekend's Sunday Politics I
:05:36. > :05:41.made the watery journey to the village of Muchelney, cut off for a
:05:42. > :05:45.whole month. Now everyone has been dropping in. First it was Prince
:05:46. > :06:00.Charles on a park bench pulled by a tractor. He waded into the row about
:06:01. > :06:05.how the floods have been handled. Next it was the chair of the
:06:06. > :06:10.Environment Agency, Lord Smith, who faced angry residents. Sought the
:06:11. > :06:17.river is out. That is precisely what we are going to do. Where he faced,
:06:18. > :06:22.a resident, he did not need that many. David Cameron went for a look
:06:23. > :06:28.as well and gave the region what it wanted, more pumps, more money and
:06:29. > :06:32.in the long-term the return of dredging. There are lessons to
:06:33. > :06:37.learn. The pause in bridging that took place from the late 1990s was
:06:38. > :06:42.wrong and we need to get dredging again. When the water levels come
:06:43. > :06:49.down and it is safe to dredge, we will dredging to make sure these
:06:50. > :06:52.rivers and stitches can carry a better capacity. The Environment
:06:53. > :06:57.Secretary Owen Paterson has not been seen again because he is recovering
:06:58. > :07:05.from emergency eye surgery. In the meantime the floodwaters rose ever
:07:06. > :07:09.higher. Some residents were told to evacuate. In Devon the railway was
:07:10. > :07:14.washed away by the waves leaving a big gap in the network. Look at the
:07:15. > :07:20.weather this weekend. If you can believe it, the storms keep rolling
:07:21. > :07:25.in. What is the long-term solution for flood prone areas of the
:07:26. > :07:29.country? I am joined from Oxford by the editor of The Ecologist
:07:30. > :07:37.magazine, Oliver Tickell, and by local MP Tessa Munt. Tessa, let me
:07:38. > :07:44.come to you first. What do you now want the Government to do? I want it
:07:45. > :07:47.to make sure it does exactly as it promises and delivers what every
:07:48. > :07:52.farmer and landowner around here knows should have been done for
:07:53. > :07:57.years. First, to solve the problems we have right now, but to make sure
:07:58. > :08:04.there is money in the bank for us to carry on doing the maintenance that
:08:05. > :08:07.is necessary. Was it a mistake not to do the dredging? When the waters
:08:08. > :08:15.start to subside does dredging become a key part of this? Yes, of
:08:16. > :08:20.course. It is something the farmers have been asking for four years
:08:21. > :08:25.When you wander along a footpath by a river and you see trees growing
:08:26. > :08:32.and there is 60% of the capacity only because there is silt, it needs
:08:33. > :08:38.to have a pretty dramatic action right now and then we need to make
:08:39. > :08:43.sure the maintenance is ongoing Oliver Tickell, was it a mistake to
:08:44. > :08:51.stop the dredging? If the dredging had happened, the land would not be
:08:52. > :08:57.covered in water for so long? Clearly it is necessary to do at
:08:58. > :09:02.least some dredging on these rivers and in particular because these
:09:03. > :09:05.rivers are well above ground level. They are carrying water that comes
:09:06. > :09:10.down off the hills well above the level of the flood plain on the
:09:11. > :09:17.Somerset Levels. They naturally tend to silt up. But the key thing is
:09:18. > :09:24.that is only a small part of the overall solution. What we need is a
:09:25. > :09:28.catchment wide approach to improve infiltration upstream and you also
:09:29. > :09:35.need to manage the flood plain on the levels and upstream so as to
:09:36. > :09:39.have active flood plain that can store water. This idea it is just
:09:40. > :09:45.about dredging is erroneous. Dredging is a part of it, but it is
:09:46. > :09:52.a catchment wide solution. Dredging is only a small part of the solution
:09:53. > :09:59.he says. Yes, of course it is. But look here. With the farmer is
:10:00. > :10:04.locally, the landowners, they know this land will carry water for a few
:10:05. > :10:08.weeks of the year, that is not a problem. But this water has to be
:10:09. > :10:14.taken away and there is a very good system of drainage and it works
:10:15. > :10:18.perfectly well. In my area there are serious problems because the
:10:19. > :10:25.dredging has not taken place. There are lunatic regulations around were
:10:26. > :10:29.when they do do some of dredging, the Environment Agency is asked to
:10:30. > :10:35.take it away because it is considered toxic waste. This is
:10:36. > :10:39.barmy. We need to take the stuff out of the rivers and build the banks up
:10:40. > :10:45.so we create protection in the future. We have to make sure the
:10:46. > :10:52.dredging is done but make sure the drainage works well and we have
:10:53. > :10:56.pumps in places and we have floodgates put onto the rivers. We
:10:57. > :11:04.need to make sure repairs are done more quickly. All right, let me go
:11:05. > :11:09.back to Oliver Tickell. Is it not the case a lot of people on your
:11:10. > :11:13.side of the argument would like to see lands like the Somerset Levels
:11:14. > :11:18.return to natural habitat? Looe I would like a degree of that, but
:11:19. > :11:28.that does not mean the whole place needs to turn into wilderness so it
:11:29. > :11:34.will remain agricultural landscape. Everybody, all the interested
:11:35. > :11:40.parties who signed up to a document called vision 2034 the Somerset
:11:41. > :11:43.Levels envisages most of the area of the Somerset Levels being turned
:11:44. > :11:50.over to extensive grassland and that is what it is best suited for. Let
:11:51. > :11:59.me put that to Tessa Munt. Have you signed up to this where you will end
:12:00. > :12:04.up with extensive grassland? I have seen it, but grass does not grow if
:12:05. > :12:09.water is sitting on this land for weeks and weeks. What you have to
:12:10. > :12:13.remember is a lot of the levels are managed very carefully and they are
:12:14. > :12:19.conservation land and that means cattle are allowed to go out at
:12:20. > :12:23.certain times of the year and in certain numbers. It is well managed.
:12:24. > :12:33.Do you accept it should return to grassland? Grassland, fine, but you
:12:34. > :12:38.cannot call land grassland in the flipping water is on it so long that
:12:39. > :12:44.nothing grows. It is no good at doing that. You have got to make
:12:45. > :12:49.sure it is managed properly. Drainage has been taking place on
:12:50. > :12:54.this land for centuries. It is the case the system is there, but it
:12:55. > :13:00.needs to be maintained properly and we have to have fewer ridiculous
:13:01. > :13:04.regulations that stop action. Last year the flooding minister agreed
:13:05. > :13:07.dredging should take place and everything stopped. Now we have got
:13:08. > :13:13.the promise from the Prime Minister and I thank Prince Charles for that.
:13:14. > :13:17.Is it not time to let the local people run their land rather than
:13:18. > :13:22.being told what to do by the Environment Agency, central
:13:23. > :13:28.Government and the European Union? The internal drainage boards have
:13:29. > :13:34.considerable power in all of this. They wanted to dredge and they were
:13:35. > :13:40.not allowed to. The farmers want to dredge that is what is going to
:13:41. > :13:43.happen, but they have signed up to a comprehensive vision of catchment
:13:44. > :13:48.management and of environmental improvement turning the Somerset
:13:49. > :13:54.Levels into a world-class haven for wildlife. It is not much good if
:13:55. > :13:58.your house is underwater. The farmers themselves, the RSPB, the
:13:59. > :14:04.drainage boards, they have all signed up to this. The real question
:14:05. > :14:13.now is how do we implement that vision? You give the money to the
:14:14. > :14:17.drainage boards. At the moment they pay 27% of their money and have been
:14:18. > :14:21.doing so for years and years and this is farmers' money and it has
:14:22. > :14:25.been going to the drainage boards and they pay the Environment Agency
:14:26. > :14:30.who are meant to be dredging and that has not happened. We have to
:14:31. > :14:35.leave it there. We have run out of time.
:14:36. > :14:40.Last week saw the Labour Party adopts an historic change with its
:14:41. > :14:44.relationship with the unions. Changes to the rules that propelled
:14:45. > :14:49.Ed Miliband to the top. Ed Miliband was elected Labour leader in 20 0 by
:14:50. > :14:55.the electoral college system which gives unions, party members and MPs
:14:56. > :15:00.one third of votes each. This would be changed into a simpler one
:15:01. > :15:04.member, one vote system. A union member would have to become an
:15:05. > :15:10.affiliated member of the party. They would have to opt in and pay ?3 a
:15:11. > :15:17.year. But the unions would have 50% of the vote at the conference and
:15:18. > :15:22.around one third of the seats on the National executive committee. The
:15:23. > :15:26.proposals are a financial gamble as well. It is estimated the party
:15:27. > :15:30.could face a drop in funding of up to ?5 million a year when the
:15:31. > :15:35.changes are fully implemented in five years. The leader of the Unite
:15:36. > :15:40.trade union has welcomed the report saying it is music to his ears. The
:15:41. > :15:47.package will be voted on at a special one of conference in March.
:15:48. > :15:55.And the Shadow Business Secretary Chuka Umunna joins me now for the
:15:56. > :15:59.Sunday Interview. Welcome back. In what way will the unions have less
:16:00. > :16:05.power and influence in the Labour Party? This is about ensuring
:16:06. > :16:09.individual trade union members have a direct relationship with the
:16:10. > :16:14.Labour Party. At the moment the monies that come to us are decided
:16:15. > :16:19.at a top level, the general secretaries determine this, whether
:16:20. > :16:24.the individual members want us to be in receipt of those monies or not so
:16:25. > :16:29.we are going to change that so that affiliation fees follow the consent
:16:30. > :16:33.of individual members. Secondly we want to make sure the individual
:16:34. > :16:43.trade union members, people who teach our children, power via -
:16:44. > :16:50.fantastic British businesses, we want them to make an active choice,
:16:51. > :16:54.and we are also recognising that in this day and age not everybody wants
:16:55. > :17:05.to become a member of a political party. We haven't got much time The
:17:06. > :17:15.unions still have 50% of the vote at Labour conferences, there will be
:17:16. > :17:29.the single most important vote, more member -- union members will vote
:17:30. > :17:39.than nonunion members, their power has not diminished at all, has it?
:17:40. > :17:43.In relation to the other parts of the group of people who will be
:17:44. > :17:48.voting in a future leadership contest, we are seeking to move
:17:49. > :17:53.towards more of a one member, one vote process. At the moment we have
:17:54. > :18:02.the absurd situation where I, as a member of Parliament, my vote will
:18:03. > :18:09.count for 1000. MPs are losing. . They still have a lot of power. I am
:18:10. > :18:14.a member of the GMB union and the Unite union, also a member of the
:18:15. > :18:20.Fabians as well so I get free votes on top of my vote as a member of
:18:21. > :18:24.Parliament. We are moving to a system where I will have one vote
:18:25. > :18:28.and that is an important part of this. You asked how many people
:18:29. > :18:30.would be casting their votes. The last time around, under the
:18:31. > :18:37.old system, up to 2.8 million ballot papers were sent out with prepaid
:18:38. > :18:46.envelopes for people to return their papers were sent out with prepaid
:18:47. > :18:52.turnout. The idea that you are going to see a big change... Even if
:18:53. > :19:04.your individual party members. In one vital way, your purse strings,
:19:05. > :19:05.your individual party members. In the unions will be more powerful
:19:06. > :19:16.than ever because at the moment they have to hand over 8 million to
:19:17. > :19:18.than ever because at the moment they fraction of that now. They will get
:19:19. > :19:28.to keep that money, but then come the election you go to them and give
:19:29. > :19:36.them a lot of money -- and they will have you then. They won't have us,
:19:37. > :19:40.as you put it! The idea that individual trade union members don't
:19:41. > :19:44.have their own view, their own voice, and just do what their
:19:45. > :19:48.general secretaries do is absurd. They will make their own decision,
:19:49. > :19:54.and we want them to make that and not have their leadership decide
:19:55. > :19:59.that for them. Let me go to the money. The Labour Party manifesto
:20:00. > :20:06.will be reflecting the interests of Britain, and the idea that somehow
:20:07. > :20:11.people can say we are not going to give you this money unless you do
:20:12. > :20:14.this or that, we will give you a policy agenda which is appropriate
:20:15. > :20:20.for the British people, regardless of what implications that may have
:20:21. > :20:25.financially. They will have more seats than anybody else in the NEC
:20:26. > :20:31.and they will hold the purse strings. They will be the
:20:32. > :20:35.determining factor. They won't be. Unite is advocating a 70% rate of
:20:36. > :20:44.income tax, there is no way we will have that in our manifesto. Unite is
:20:45. > :20:57.advocating taking back contracts and no compensation basis, we would not
:20:58. > :21:07.-- there is no way we would do that. How many chief executives of the
:21:08. > :21:15.FTSE 100 are backing Labour? We have lots of chief executives backing
:21:16. > :21:18.Labour. I don't know the exact number. Ed Miliband has just placed
:21:19. > :21:31.an important business person in the House of Lords, the former chief
:21:32. > :21:39.executive of the ITV, Bill Grimsey. How many? You can only name one
:21:40. > :21:45.Bill Grimsey, there is also John Mills. Anyone who is currently
:21:46. > :21:50.chairman of the chief executive With the greatest respect, you are
:21:51. > :21:55.talking about less than half the percent of business leaders in our
:21:56. > :22:01.country, we have almost 5 million businesses, not all FTSE 100
:22:02. > :22:07.businesses, not all listed, and we are trying to get people from across
:22:08. > :22:22.the country of all different shapes and sizes. Let's widen it to the
:22:23. > :22:28.FTSE 250. That is 250 out of 5 million companies. The largest ones,
:22:29. > :22:33.they make the profits and provide the jobs. Two thirds of private
:22:34. > :22:37.sector jobs in this country come from small and medium-sized
:22:38. > :22:40.businesses, and small and medium-sized businesses are an
:22:41. > :22:51.important part of a large companies supply chains. So you cannot name a
:22:52. > :22:58.single chairman from the FTSE 2 0, correct? I don't know all the
:22:59. > :23:09.chairman. Are you going to fight the next election without a single boss
:23:10. > :23:12.of a FTSE 250 company? I have named some important business people, but
:23:13. > :23:22.the most important thing is that we are not coming out with a manifesto
:23:23. > :23:33.for particular interests, but for broader interest. Let me show you,
:23:34. > :23:46.Digby Jones says Labour's policy is, "if it creates wealth, let's kick
:23:47. > :23:53.it" . Another quote, that it borders on predatory taxation. They think
:23:54. > :23:59.you are anti-business. I don't agree with them. One of the interesting
:24:00. > :24:03.things about Sir Stuart's comments on the predatory taxation and I
:24:04. > :24:07.think he was referring to the 5 p rate of tax is that he made some
:24:08. > :24:14.comments arguing against the reduction of the top rate of tax
:24:15. > :24:17.from 50p. He is saying something different now. Digby of course has
:24:18. > :24:23.his own opinions, he has never been a member of the Labour Party. Let me
:24:24. > :24:27.come onto this business of the top rate of tax, do you accept or don't
:24:28. > :24:32.you that there is a point when higher rates of income tax become
:24:33. > :24:38.counter-productive? Ultimately you want to have the lowest tax rates
:24:39. > :24:44.possible. Do you accept there is a certain level you actually get less
:24:45. > :24:50.money? I think ultimately there is a level beyond you could go which
:24:51. > :24:54.would be counter-productive, for example the 75% rate of tax I
:24:55. > :25:07.mentioned earlier, being advocated by Unite in France. Most French
:25:08. > :25:15.higher earners will pay less tax than under your plans. I beg your
:25:16. > :25:22.pardon, with the 50p? Under your proposals, people here will pay more
:25:23. > :25:27.tax than French higher earners. If you are asking if in terms of the
:25:28. > :25:34.level, you asked the question and I answered it, do I think if you reach
:25:35. > :25:38.a level beyond which the tax burden becomes counter-productive, can I
:25:39. > :25:42.give you a number what that would be, I cannot but let me explain -
:25:43. > :25:49.the reason we have sought to increase its two 50p is that we can
:25:50. > :25:53.get in revenue to reduce the deficit. In an ideal world you
:25:54. > :25:57.wouldn't need a 50p rate of tax which is why during our time in
:25:58. > :26:07.office we didn't have one, because we didn't have those issues. Sure,
:26:08. > :26:13.though you cannot tell me how much the 50p will raise. In the three
:26:14. > :26:22.years of operation we think it raised ?10 billion. You think. That
:26:23. > :26:26.was based on extrapolation from the British library. It is at least
:26:27. > :26:32.possible I would suggest, for the sake of argument, that when you
:26:33. > :26:39.promise to take over half people's income, which is what you will do if
:26:40. > :26:49.you get your way, the richest 1 currently account for 70 5% of all
:26:50. > :26:56.tax revenues. -- 75%. Is it not a danger that if you take more out of
:26:57. > :27:06.them, they will just go? I don't think so, we are talking about the
:27:07. > :27:08.top 1% here. If you look at the directors of sub 5 million turnover
:27:09. > :27:23.companies, the average managing director of that gets around
:27:24. > :27:33.?87,000. Let me narrow it down to something else. Let's take the .1%
:27:34. > :27:38.of top taxpayers, down to fewer than 30,000 people. They account for over
:27:39. > :27:43.14% of all of the income tax revenues. Only 29,000 people. If
:27:44. > :27:50.they go because you are going to take over half their income, you
:27:51. > :27:57.have lost a huge chunk of your tax base. They could easily go, at
:27:58. > :28:02.tipping point they could go. What we are advocating here is not
:28:03. > :28:06.controversial. Those with the broadest shoulders, it is not
:28:07. > :28:16.unreasonable to ask them to share the heavier burden. Can you name one
:28:17. > :28:24.other major economy that subscribes to this? Across Europe, for example
:28:25. > :28:31.in Sweden they have higher tax rates than us. Can you name one major
:28:32. > :28:37.economy? I couldn't pluck one out of the air, I can see where you are
:28:38. > :28:42.coming from, I don't agree with it. I think most people subscribe to the
:28:43. > :28:49.fact that those with wider shoulders should carry the heavy a burden We
:28:50. > :28:53.have run out of time but thank you for being here.
:28:54. > :28:57.Over the past week it seems that Nick Clegg has activated a new Lib
:28:58. > :29:00.Dem strategy - 'Get Gove'. After a very public spat over who should
:29:01. > :29:03.head up the schools inspection service Ofsted, Lib Dem sources have
:29:04. > :29:06.continued to needle away at the Education Secretary. And other
:29:07. > :29:30.senior Lib Dems have also taken aim at their coalition partners. Here's
:29:31. > :29:33.Giles Dilnot. It's unlikely the polite welcome of these school
:29:34. > :29:36.children to Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg and his party colleague
:29:37. > :29:38.schools minister David Laws would be so forthcoming right now from the
:29:39. > :29:41.man in charge of schools Conservative Michael Gove. Mr Laws
:29:42. > :29:44.is said to have been furious with The Education secretary over the
:29:45. > :29:48.decision to remove Sally Morgan as chair of Ofsted. But those who know
:29:49. > :29:50.the inner working of the Lib Dems say that's just understandable. When
:29:51. > :29:53.you have the department not being consulted, it would be possible for
:29:54. > :29:57.him to not publicly comment. The remarkable thing would be if he
:29:58. > :30:07.hadn't said anything at all. We should be careful to understand this
:30:08. > :30:18.is not always part of a preplanned decision. There is a growing sense
:30:19. > :30:21.that inside Number Ten this is a concerted Lib Dem strategy, we also
:30:22. > :30:25.understand there is no love lost between Nick Clegg and Michael Gove
:30:26. > :30:31.to say the least, and a growing frustration that if the Lib Dems
:30:32. > :30:34.think such so-called yellow and blue attacks can help them with the
:30:35. > :30:42.election, they can also damage the long-term prospects of the Coalition
:30:43. > :30:45.post 2015. One spat does not a divorce make but perhaps even more
:30:46. > :30:47.significant has been Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander s
:30:48. > :30:50.recent newspaper interview firmly spiking any room for George Osborne
:30:51. > :30:53.to manoeuvre on lowering the highest income tax rate to 40p. All this
:30:54. > :30:56.builds on the inclusion in Government at the reshuffle of
:30:57. > :30:59.people like Norman Baker at the Home Office and Simon Hughes at Justice
:31:00. > :31:01.people who are happier to publically express doubt on Conservative
:31:02. > :31:15.policy, unlike say Jeremy Browne who was removed and who has made plain
:31:16. > :31:19.his views on Coalition. It is difficult for us to demonstrate that
:31:20. > :31:27.we are more socialist than an Ed Miliband Labour led party. Even if
:31:28. > :31:33.we did wish to demonstrate it, doing it in coalition with the
:31:34. > :31:37.Conservatives would be harder still. Nonetheless a differentiation
:31:38. > :31:43.strategy was always likely as 2 15 approached, so is there evidence it
:31:44. > :31:47.works? Or of the work we publish shows the Lib Dems have a huge
:31:48. > :31:53.problem in terms of their distinctiveness, so attacking their
:31:54. > :31:55.coalition partners or the Labour Party is helpful in showing what
:31:56. > :32:01.they are against, but there are bigger problem is showing what they
:32:02. > :32:06.are for. And one Conservative MP with access to Number Ten as part of
:32:07. > :32:12.the PM's policy board says yellow on blue attacks are misplaced and
:32:13. > :32:16.irresponsible. At this stage when all the hard work is being done and
:32:17. > :32:24.the country is back on its feet the Lib Dems are choosing the time to
:32:25. > :32:28.step away from the coalition. That is your position, but do you suspect
:32:29. > :32:35.coming up to the next election we will see more of this? I think the
:32:36. > :32:41.Lib Dems are about as hard to pin down as a weasel in Vaseline. And
:32:42. > :32:44.with the public's view of politicians right now, and wants to
:32:45. > :32:51.be seen as slicker than a well oiled weasel? And we have Lib Dem peer
:32:52. > :33:01.Matthew Oakeshott and senior Conservative backbencher Bernard
:33:02. > :33:05.Jenkin. Matthew, the Lib Dems are now picking fights with the Tories
:33:06. > :33:10.on a range of issues, some of them trivial. Is this a Pirelli used to
:33:11. > :33:18.Lib Dem withdrawal from the coalition? I do not know, I am not
:33:19. > :33:22.privy to Nick Clegg's in strategy. Some of us have been independent for
:33:23. > :33:29.some time. I resigned over treatment of the banks. That is now being
:33:30. > :33:34.sorted out. But what is significant is we have seen a string of attacks,
:33:35. > :33:40.almost an enemy within strategy When you have Nick Clegg, David Laws
:33:41. > :33:47.and Danny Alexander, the three key people closest to the Conservatives,
:33:48. > :33:51.when you see all of them attacking, and this morning Nick Clegg has had
:33:52. > :33:56.a go at the Conservatives over drug policy. There is a string of
:33:57. > :34:02.policies where something is going on. It is difficult to do an enemy
:34:03. > :34:08.within strategy. I believe as many Lib Dems do that we should withdraw
:34:09. > :34:12.from the coalition six months to one year before the election so we can
:34:13. > :34:16.put our positive policies across rather than having this tricky
:34:17. > :34:24.strategy of trying to do it from within. Why does David Cameron need
:34:25. > :34:29.the Lib Dems? He probably does not. The country generally favoured the
:34:30. > :34:33.coalition to start with. Voters like to see politicians are working
:34:34. > :34:38.together and far more of that goes on in Westminster then we see. Most
:34:39. > :34:46.of my committee reports are unanimous reports from all parties.
:34:47. > :34:54.Why does he need them? I do not think he does. You would be happy to
:34:55. > :34:59.see the Lib Dems go? I would always be happy to see a single minority
:35:00. > :35:03.Government because it would be easier for legislation. The
:35:04. > :35:07.legislation you could not get through would not get through
:35:08. > :35:12.whether we were in coalition or not. The 40p tax rate, there
:35:13. > :35:17.probably is not a majority in the House of Commons at the moment,
:35:18. > :35:21.despite what Nick Clegg originally said. It does not make much
:35:22. > :35:25.difference. What makes a difference from the perspective of the
:35:26. > :35:30.committee I chair is historically we have had single party Government
:35:31. > :35:34.that have collective responsibility and clarity. The reason that is
:35:35. > :35:39.important is because nothing gets done if everybody is at sixes and
:35:40. > :35:44.sevens in the Government. Everything stops, there is paralysis as the row
:35:45. > :35:49.goes on. Civil servants do not know who they are working for. If it
:35:50. > :35:56.carries on getting fractures, there is a bigger argument to get out If
:35:57. > :36:01.it continues at this level of intensity of the enemy within
:36:02. > :36:06.strategy as you have described it, can the coalition survived another
:36:07. > :36:10.16 months of this? It is also a question should they. I never
:36:11. > :36:17.thought I would say this, I agree with Bernard. Interestingly earlier
:36:18. > :36:21.Chuka Umunna missed the point talking about business support.
:36:22. > :36:24.Business is worried about this anti-European rhetoric and that is a
:36:25. > :36:28.deep split between the Liberal Democrats and the UKIP wing of the
:36:29. > :36:34.Tory party. That is really damaging and that is something we need to
:36:35. > :36:39.make our own case separately on Do you get fed up when you hear
:36:40. > :36:43.constant Lib Dem attacks on you What makes me fed up is my own party
:36:44. > :36:50.cannot respond in kind because we are in coalition. I would love to
:36:51. > :36:57.have this much more open debate I would like to see my own party
:36:58. > :37:00.leader, for example as he did in the House of Commons, it was the Liberal
:37:01. > :37:04.Democrats who blocked the referendum on the house of lords and if we want
:37:05. > :37:08.to get this bill through it should be a Government bill. We know we can
:37:09. > :37:12.get it through the Commons, but we need to get the Liberals out of the
:37:13. > :37:16.Government so they stop blocking the Government putting forward a
:37:17. > :37:26.referendum bill. And put millions of jobs at risk? I am not going down
:37:27. > :37:30.the European road today. It strikes me that given that the attacks from
:37:31. > :37:35.the Lib Dems are now coming from the left attacking the Tories, is this a
:37:36. > :37:40.representative of the failure of Nick Clegg's strategy to rebuild a
:37:41. > :37:46.centrist Liberal party and he now accepts the only way he can save as
:37:47. > :37:52.many seats as he can do is to get the disillusioned left Lib Dem
:37:53. > :37:57.voters to come back to the fold The site is we have lost over half our
:37:58. > :38:01.vote at the last election and at the moment there is no sign in the polls
:38:02. > :38:07.of it coming back and we are getting very close to the next election I
:38:08. > :38:13.welcome it if Nick Clegg is starting to address that problem, but talking
:38:14. > :38:17.about the centre is not the answer. Most Liberal Democrat voters at the
:38:18. > :38:22.last election are radical, progressive people who want to see a
:38:23. > :38:25.much fairer Britain and a much less divided society and we must make
:38:26. > :38:32.sure we maximise our vote from there. We know what both of you
:38:33. > :38:36.want, but what do you think will happen? Do you think this coalition
:38:37. > :38:42.will survive all the way to the election or will it break up
:38:43. > :38:48.beforehand? I think it will break up beforehand. Our long-term economic
:38:49. > :38:51.plan is working. The further changes in policies we want to implement to
:38:52. > :38:58.sustain that plan are being held back by the Liberal Democrats. When
:38:59. > :39:02.will they break up? It has lasted longer than I thought it would, but
:39:03. > :39:10.it must break up at least six months before the election. Do you think it
:39:11. > :39:15.will survive or not? The coalition has delivered a great deal in many
:39:16. > :39:19.ways, but it is running out of steam. It depends what happens in
:39:20. > :39:23.the May elections. If the Liberal Democrats do not do better than we
:39:24. > :39:32.have done in the last three, there will be very strong pressure from
:39:33. > :39:38.the inside. You both agree. Television history has been made.
:39:39. > :39:42.You are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up: I will be
:39:43. > :40:01.looking Good morning. Welcome. Can we really
:40:02. > :40:06.blame the politicians for the weather? Not really, is how much
:40:07. > :40:12.help should we expect for the victims of it? And another brow
:40:13. > :40:20.about smoking. Should your Council tax pay for ads like these, as local
:40:21. > :40:24.authorities cut their spending, they are accused of stabbing out actions
:40:25. > :40:34.to protect the book help. Let's join our guests, a Conservative MP and
:40:35. > :40:38.the woman hoping to kick him out. `` protect the public. More from them
:40:39. > :40:44.in a moment. First, there seems to be no end to the terrible weather.
:40:45. > :40:50.In Somerset, the plight of the farmers has touched the nation.
:40:51. > :40:56.There is a political storm as well. The Prime Minister wore boots. This
:40:57. > :41:02.is the image the government wanted to project. David Cameron came to
:41:03. > :41:06.Somerset and waded into the debate. We are doing everything we can to
:41:07. > :41:12.help. More help from emergency services among more pumps, money to
:41:13. > :41:16.help Somerset get back on its feet. The Army coming in to help about
:41:17. > :41:20.whether it is helping with sandbags, which they have been doing over the
:41:21. > :41:24.last 24 hours, or looking to see whether embroidery bridges can be
:41:25. > :41:28.put in place, everything that can need and will be done. His visit
:41:29. > :41:32.came hours after the head of the Environment Agency. Chris Smith aced
:41:33. > :41:38.complaints from locals who were angry. His defence was that the
:41:39. > :41:45.industry budget `` that the budget was set by the government. Two days
:41:46. > :41:52.running, MPs were told of millions extra being given, but in fact,
:41:53. > :41:57.floods prevention fell in the coalition's first two years. All
:41:58. > :42:01.agree much will need to be spent, much more. The scale of the
:42:02. > :42:05.challenge that we face from climate change and floods demands we have a
:42:06. > :42:16.combo has a look at the investment that is required. The government is
:42:17. > :42:22.being one. The extreme `` the government is being warned. In
:42:23. > :42:27.general, we are going to have to adapt, and low`lying parts in some
:42:28. > :42:33.places, we will have to think about how we will live in them. The floods
:42:34. > :42:37.may be live `` the floods may be with us for months, and the debate
:42:38. > :42:42.about how to prevent them will go on for much longer. If you are affected
:42:43. > :42:48.by the floods, our thoughts are with you. How do you think the government
:42:49. > :42:51.is handling this crisis? The first thing to say is, of course, we are
:42:52. > :42:56.not letting the government for the weather, but I think people feel
:42:57. > :43:03.that the reaction has been very slow from the government. I think that it
:43:04. > :43:07.is good that there is no action being taken, and it is good that the
:43:08. > :43:13.government are now looking to reinstate the funding which they
:43:14. > :43:15.actually cut. In a sense, that is an admission of failure. Why do you
:43:16. > :43:21.think the government was caught on the back foot? I do not think the
:43:22. > :43:25.government has been cut `` caught on the back foot. We have put in
:43:26. > :43:29.another ?100 million for the rest of this year. We have put in ?3.1
:43:30. > :43:38.billion in the course of this Parliament. We can talk figures
:43:39. > :43:43.There is a sense that the government did not get a grip on the situation
:43:44. > :43:49.and it was out of sight, out of mind. When you look at some of the
:43:50. > :43:52.Conservative MPs, some of them have done a great job right at the
:43:53. > :43:57.highest level, and all of the local MPs of all local parties have done a
:43:58. > :44:02.good job to make sure that Somerset's voice is heard. This is a
:44:03. > :44:11.longer`term problem. The rivers have not been dredged since 1995, and we
:44:12. > :44:15.have got to double our efforts for folks in the countryside. We heard
:44:16. > :44:20.Ed Miliband talking about climate change, but not very long ago, we
:44:21. > :44:23.were talking about drought. It is quite hard to plan for these
:44:24. > :44:27.extremes of weather even that we do not know what is going to happen. I
:44:28. > :44:33.think it is in ports and that we look at climate change as something
:44:34. > :44:37.which is happening, and we have evidence to suggest it is. `` I
:44:38. > :44:40.think it is important. The crucial element here is the funding, and at
:44:41. > :44:46.the moment, the government are saying that the funding is there for
:44:47. > :44:50.people, and all they are doing. . Listen, what is actually happening
:44:51. > :44:56.is that the government is saying that they are putting more funding
:44:57. > :45:03.into it, but the funding is less than when we had a lever government.
:45:04. > :45:11.`` Labour government. I guess if David Cameron felt the need to
:45:12. > :45:15.actually show up... That is another issue, the role of the Environment
:45:16. > :45:19.Agency, and making sure they prioritise what is needed in the
:45:20. > :45:24.local area. For too long it has been an area concerned with conservation
:45:25. > :45:27.rather than flooding. I think the Environment Agency needs to pull
:45:28. > :45:31.their finger out. We have all seen the adverts on the lid and urging
:45:32. > :45:42.smokers to quit, but should the Council tax be funding a group that
:45:43. > :45:51.are behind the ads? Is it a false economy? I used to manufacture
:45:52. > :45:57.cigarettes and smoked them. Hard`hitting adverts like this do
:45:58. > :46:03.not come cheap. And the rest. I rolled my own. It costs about
:46:04. > :46:11.?350,000 for the group to put this on TVs throughout the region.
:46:12. > :46:14.Thankfully, I do now. You and I pay about 30p a year in order to fund
:46:15. > :46:19.this. Ed used to be done through the NHS, but now with councils in charge
:46:20. > :46:24.of public health, some are thinking twice about continuing to pay for
:46:25. > :46:29.smoke free Southwest. `` it used to be done. They say they have evidence
:46:30. > :46:33.that packaging can appeal to children. One concern is over
:46:34. > :46:38.whether it is right for a publicly funded company to lobby for
:46:39. > :46:44.government. Gloucestershire is one company `` Council that is thinking
:46:45. > :46:50.of withdrawing funding. They say that they are not legally able to
:46:51. > :46:53.fund lobbying and they have a breakdown of exactly how the money
:46:54. > :46:58.is being spent, particularly the impact of the funding locally to
:46:59. > :47:05.help make the decision. The priority is to ensure that they get maximum
:47:06. > :47:09.impact for taxpayer money, putting more people in Gloucestershire to
:47:10. > :47:13.quit smoking, so we reduce the amount of people dying of
:47:14. > :47:20.smoking`related illnesses. Crystal city Council are going to reduce
:47:21. > :47:23.funding by 20%. `` Bristol city Council. North Somerset Council have
:47:24. > :47:29.just decided to stop funding altogether. We have heard from
:47:30. > :47:32.trading standards how illegal tobacco is coming in and getting
:47:33. > :47:38.into our schools, and I would rather tackle that far more dangerous and
:47:39. > :47:42.then a blanket campaign to tell people to stop smoking. Most adults
:47:43. > :47:47.who smoke know that they should not. I do not want to direct
:47:48. > :47:51.resources at telling people how to live their lives. But the former
:47:52. > :47:55.head of Public health in the region says that it is successful campaigns
:47:56. > :48:02.in the past that have helped to ban smoking in pubs. The budget is going
:48:03. > :48:06.to local authorities, but they are meant to be ring fenced and they are
:48:07. > :48:10.meant to be spent on improving the health of the population, and
:48:11. > :48:13.political decisions taken on the basis of people posit personal
:48:14. > :48:18.preferences should not really into it, it should be about the health of
:48:19. > :48:25.the population. `` people's personal preferences. We should be doing our
:48:26. > :48:30.best to help people, and spending on a campaign against tobacco is vital
:48:31. > :48:34.in that. Smoke free Southwest now has its site and lobbying the
:48:35. > :48:45.government to introduce plain packaging, but we may never see
:48:46. > :48:49.adverts like this ever again. `` has its site. We can't be to the
:48:50. > :48:56.director of smoke`free Southwest `` we can now speak to the director of
:48:57. > :49:01.smoke`free Southwest. Why should Council taxpayers pay for those
:49:02. > :49:05.advertisements? Because the councils that fund us are absolutely serious
:49:06. > :49:11.about tackling the 8000 deaths that we see in the Southwest every year.
:49:12. > :49:16.In terms of what we do come up we rent campaigns which are highly
:49:17. > :49:21.affected `` in terms of what we do, we run campaigns that are highly
:49:22. > :49:26.effective. We are a specialist health organisation and our primary
:49:27. > :49:30.role is to try to protect children from taking up smoking, and to
:49:31. > :49:35.reduce the death. You are opposed to this being funded by local
:49:36. > :49:40.authorities, but that is not surprising because you want to grow
:49:41. > :49:45.a new generation of smokers. That is outrageous. We defend adult
:49:46. > :49:51.consumers who choose to smoke. You are funded by the tobacco industry.
:49:52. > :49:53.What we are against his political lobbying by groups like smoke`free
:49:54. > :49:58.Southwest, where you have a situation where it government money
:49:59. > :50:02.is being used to lobby government and introduce legislation. With
:50:03. > :50:08.great respect to the owner, I cannot see what's you they actually bring
:50:09. > :50:14.`` to Fiona, I cannot see what they actually bring. If it is not
:50:15. > :50:18.affecting you and your brand, presumably you can just get on with
:50:19. > :50:24.it. Why are you talking about my brands? I do not represent the
:50:25. > :50:28.tobacco industry. I speak on behalf of the consumer. We're talking about
:50:29. > :50:33.smoke`free Southwest and the amount of government money they get to
:50:34. > :50:43.lobby government. Federal government already spends millions of pounds on
:50:44. > :50:47.anti`smoking education. This is a soon on of damage we are seeing I
:50:48. > :50:53.am delighted that the Lord 's this week have nodded through four really
:50:54. > :50:57.positive messages that will protect our children. The things we do our
:50:58. > :51:02.evidence `based. We are public health, and we try to get good
:51:03. > :51:07.vacation. You lobby, so it is the government paying for a lobby group
:51:08. > :51:12.to lobby itself. The evidence around what you do to try and create health
:51:13. > :51:16.is communicate well, and I make no apology for being an organisation
:51:17. > :51:21.that communicates the strongest possible evidence to the public and
:51:22. > :51:26.to those that are the decision`makers. Excuse me, if I
:51:27. > :51:31.could finish. The decision`makers, and the awesome line is, there will
:51:32. > :51:38.be people who are alive tomorrow. `` the bottom line. She wants people to
:51:39. > :51:43.live and you do not care. There are other organisations already doing
:51:44. > :51:47.that. Why should government have to spend this money? In terms of
:51:48. > :51:50.communication, what they do not communicate very well is the source
:51:51. > :51:54.of their funding. We are open about the fact we get money from tobacco
:51:55. > :52:01.companies. You try and distance yourself. Let me finish. You already
:52:02. > :52:05.had a word. If you go onto the smoke`free Southwest website, you
:52:06. > :52:09.will not find their source of funding. We had a Freedom of
:52:10. > :52:15.Information request to find out how the money came in. That is not true.
:52:16. > :52:20.We are totally transparent. The local authorities that fund us are
:52:21. > :52:26.more ambitious and want to make faster strides to improve the health
:52:27. > :52:30.of their population. He looked at the website, we are cost`effective
:52:31. > :52:35.because we `` if you look at the website, we are cost`effective, and
:52:36. > :52:43.when you reduce smoking, you can campaign, which is why we do that.
:52:44. > :52:51.Some people might like `` some people might find it difficult to
:52:52. > :52:57.find this `` fund this. My job is to do the job around evidence, science.
:52:58. > :53:03.Let's begin our other guests. This used to be paid for by the NHS and
:53:04. > :53:06.now they have made it to local authorities, and local authorities
:53:07. > :53:11.have other fish to fry. It was part of a measure to put a renewed focus
:53:12. > :53:17.on public health. Public health would be seen as not just something
:53:18. > :53:22.within the NHS, but something that does everyone's responsibility. But
:53:23. > :53:29.the NHS has got a stake in preventing disease, whereas local
:53:30. > :53:34.authorities have not. Local authorities are the interface for
:53:35. > :53:37.local communities. That is where I think local authorities have a
:53:38. > :53:42.strong and significant role which is backed up by a lot of research. Do
:53:43. > :53:47.you think that the government is tough enough on smoking? I think the
:53:48. > :53:51.previous Labour government did an awful lot to tackle smoking, and
:53:52. > :53:56.obviously, what we are seeing is the smoking ban, which we implemented,
:53:57. > :54:02.and now of course we are taking action to ban smoking in cars with
:54:03. > :54:08.children. That vote is tomorrow Will you vote for that? I am voting
:54:09. > :54:12.for that, yes. I would vote for that. I think it is important that
:54:13. > :54:16.we take users to make sure that children are protected in the
:54:17. > :54:22.circumstances. That is not to say that we would store them into
:54:23. > :54:25.people's houses and stopped then. `` that is not to say that we would
:54:26. > :54:31.storm into people's houses and stop them. This week, the Education
:54:32. > :54:36.Secretary once again sent shock waves through staff rooms. Michael
:54:37. > :54:40.Gove says he wants more discipline in schools and extra tests for
:54:41. > :54:44.pupils. It has not gone down at all well with teachers who are set to
:54:45. > :54:50.strike again next month in a dispute over their pay.
:54:51. > :54:58.They are values steeped in tradition. Rigorous testing of
:54:59. > :55:04.ability and of knowledge. State schools need a longer school day.
:55:05. > :55:08.This week, the Education Secretary had this advice for the nation's
:55:09. > :55:10.teachers, he said that under a future Conservative government, he
:55:11. > :55:18.would have longer days at schools, perhaps even nine or ten hours long
:55:19. > :55:25.`` long, and tests at 13, and above all, discipline, perhaps even line
:55:26. > :55:31.stop and that has upset some `` lines. And that has upset some
:55:32. > :55:37.teachers. Using writing as a punishment, that has flabbergasted
:55:38. > :55:41.me. You learn that you never use reading or writing as a punishment.
:55:42. > :55:46.It is completely contradicted to everything you are trying to do as a
:55:47. > :55:50.teacher. It shows he has no understanding what we are trying to
:55:51. > :55:55.achieve at all. Michael Gove has likened resistance to his changes to
:55:56. > :55:59.a 1950s science`fiction film, and has been comparing this to dismiss
:56:00. > :56:07.to a shape shifting mass will never make them universally popular. Sir
:56:08. > :56:13.David Carter oversees 11 schools in the West and has the ear of
:56:14. > :56:18.government. I think that the divides opinion. I think he is the darling
:56:19. > :56:24.of the right wing and the left`wing parity him to their own peril. He is
:56:25. > :56:29.an intelligent man. In his party is very popular and I think they look
:56:30. > :56:34.to him to provide vision and strategy when they have been
:56:35. > :56:42.challenged in the public sector Whether he is universally liked I
:56:43. > :56:46.am not sure. Back `` a level politics students are considering a
:56:47. > :56:55.Labour initiative. Making it so the teachers have to prove this every
:56:56. > :56:59.three years will put them off. It would take them through sufficient
:57:00. > :57:04.ways to teach the children better. The idea that teachers have ``
:57:05. > :57:07.teachers should have licenses has also angered many in the
:57:08. > :57:13.profession. I think it is about the deep rough rationalizing of
:57:14. > :57:17.teachers, really. You do not have tests for teachers every three
:57:18. > :57:20.years, you do not have tests for dentists or people like that, and it
:57:21. > :57:26.is a profession and it deserves to be treated as one, and I do not
:57:27. > :57:35.think this is a very sensible mind `` line for label `` line up for
:57:36. > :57:41.Labour to take at all. It is clear that education will be a key theme
:57:42. > :57:45.in 2015, but just writing it out, it makes me think I have heard it
:57:46. > :57:52.somewhere before. Education, education and education.
:57:53. > :57:55.I am surprised he could spell it! You are a school governor, aren t
:57:56. > :58:01.you? Why is Michael Gove is setting the agenda? I do not think he is. We
:58:02. > :58:05.are looking at getting more qualified teachers into schools to
:58:06. > :58:11.stop I think Chris and I might have a different perspective `` into
:58:12. > :58:14.schools. I think Chris and I might have different perspectives on the
:58:15. > :58:18.eye think Chris looks at the more politically than I do, but as a
:58:19. > :58:24.parent, you want your children to make sure they are in a classroom
:58:25. > :58:27.with someone who understands not just the subject but how to deal
:58:28. > :58:33.with your children emotionally, and we are seeing classrooms filling up
:58:34. > :58:39.with unqualified teachers. As they are in private goals. They seem to
:58:40. > :58:43.rub along, don't they `` private schools. They seem to rub along
:58:44. > :58:50.don't they? I'm in schools have a lot to learn from state schools ``
:58:51. > :58:53.private schools have a lot to learn from state schools. I think Michael
:58:54. > :59:01.is determined to transform the educational landscape to make sure
:59:02. > :59:05.that pupils get the chance... We are in this global `` global race, and
:59:06. > :59:09.we have got to make sure that we give people the education that the
:59:10. > :59:14.very best and brightest deserve and that is what we are setting out to
:59:15. > :59:17.do. Is it reasonable to license teachers every three years or test
:59:18. > :59:26.them every three years? That is an interesting debate. There were
:59:27. > :59:33.18,000 qualified children `` teachers under label `` teachers
:59:34. > :59:39.under Labour, and now there are 14,000. When it comes to asking
:59:40. > :59:42.teachers to have a test every three years, it sounds great, but what is
:59:43. > :59:47.behind that sensible is the practice of extra bureaucracy and paperwork
:59:48. > :59:53.will stop when you check them out if they failed but you Mark? `` tabor
:59:54. > :00:03.work. Would you chalk them out if they failed? No. We would give them
:00:04. > :00:11.time. It is just making sure that they are up to scratch so they can
:00:12. > :00:17.teach people 's property `` properly `` pupils properly. As I said
:00:18. > :00:25.earlier, I do not think we should be using private schools as a benchmark
:00:26. > :00:28.all of the time. In Bristol, every secondary school,, and some of their
:00:29. > :00:37.facilities are are better than some of the private schools. We have had
:00:38. > :00:41.to schools go back into the state sector. They used to be a huge
:00:42. > :00:54.divide in Bristol between the state sector and the private sector. They
:00:55. > :00:58.have transformed. Is he up `` is the aspiring to appeal to middle`class
:00:59. > :01:03.parents? The one way he could do that is to improve the quality of
:01:04. > :01:06.education. We have seen education maintenance allowance being cut All
:01:07. > :01:12.of those things that make our state schools equal to public schools We
:01:13. > :01:17.have to leave it there. The floods in Somerset dominated the political
:01:18. > :01:29.week, but that was not all that happened. Here is our 62nd round up.
:01:30. > :01:33.`` 62nd round up. Mark Harper has resigned as Immigration Minister
:01:34. > :01:38.after discovering that his own cleaner was an illegal immigrant. He
:01:39. > :01:41.had been responsible for a tough government clamp`down. One of his
:01:42. > :01:45.most famous moments was on this programme, when he told an Iraqi
:01:46. > :01:50.asylum seeker to go home. Many reckon it will not be long before he
:01:51. > :01:55.is back in government. I think he would be a terrific minister. He
:01:56. > :01:59.will carry on being. It is to his credit that he has stepped up to the
:02:00. > :02:07.plate and said that there is a higher standard that applies to him
:02:08. > :02:12.and that he `` and we will miss him in government but I hope he is back
:02:13. > :02:20.before too long. The Prime Minister has said that the West still mind
:02:21. > :02:24.him of the romance. He says one sung by a popular band reminds him of
:02:25. > :02:30.when he used to drive to see his wife.
:02:31. > :02:38.And on that note, it is time to say that is it. Thank you to our guests
:02:39. > :02:43.for being here. Do not forget, you can keep up to speed on your local
:02:44. > :02:56.BBC radio station, and you can also a voice. Both of you, thank you so
:02:57. > :03:01.much. Andrew, it is back to you Can David Cameron get a grip on the
:03:02. > :03:04.floods? Can UKIP push the Conservatives into third place in
:03:05. > :03:07.the Wythenshawe by-election on Thursday? Is the speaker in the
:03:08. > :03:15.House of Commons in danger of overheating? All questions over the
:03:16. > :03:22.weekend. Let's look at the politics of the flooding. Let me show you a
:03:23. > :03:29.clip from Eric Pickles, the Communities Secretary, earlier on
:03:30. > :03:35.the BBC this morning. We perhaps relied too much on the Environment
:03:36. > :03:39.Agency's advice. I apologise. I apologise unreservedly and I am
:03:40. > :03:45.really sorry we took the advice of what we thought we were doing was
:03:46. > :03:48.the best. The Environment Agency is being hung out to dry by the
:03:49. > :03:54.Government and the Government has taken over the running of the
:03:55. > :03:59.environmental mess in the Somerset Levels. It is turning into a serious
:04:00. > :04:03.crisis by the Government and even more so for the people who are
:04:04. > :04:09.dealing with the flooding. There is no doubt that what has been revealed
:04:10. > :04:14.is it is not just about what the Government did or did not do six
:04:15. > :04:19.months ago. What is being exposed is an entire culture within the
:04:20. > :04:23.Environment Agency, fuelled often by European directives about dredging
:04:24. > :04:28.and all manner of other things, a culture grew up in which plants were
:04:29. > :04:32.put ahead of people if you like All of that is collapsing in very
:04:33. > :04:38.difficult circumstances by the Government and it is difficult for
:04:39. > :04:41.them to manage. Chris Smith would save the Environment Agency is
:04:42. > :04:46.acting under a law set by this Government and previous governments
:04:47. > :04:49.and the first priority is the protection of life, second property
:04:50. > :04:55.and third agricultural land and he is saying we are working within that
:04:56. > :04:59.framework. It is an edifying spectacle, they are setting up Lord
:05:00. > :05:03.Smith to be the fall guy. His term of office comes at the end of the
:05:04. > :05:08.summer and they will find something new. But the point Lord Smith is
:05:09. > :05:12.making is that dredging is important and it was a mistake not to dredge,
:05:13. > :05:17.but it is a bigger picture than that. I am no expert, but you need a
:05:18. > :05:24.whole skill solution that is looking not just bad dredging, but at the
:05:25. > :05:28.whole catchment area looking at the production of maize. It is harvested
:05:29. > :05:34.in autumn and then the water runs off the topsoil. You see the
:05:35. > :05:38.pictures of the flooding, it is all topsoil flooding through those
:05:39. > :05:42.towns. What you have got to have in the uplands is some land that can
:05:43. > :05:47.absorb that water and there are really big questions about the way
:05:48. > :05:51.we carry out farming. Chris Smith was meant to appear on the Andrew
:05:52. > :05:55.Marr show this morning, but pulled back at the last minute. There must
:05:56. > :05:59.be doubts as to whether he can survive to the summer. Where is the
:06:00. > :06:06.chief executive of the Environment Agency? I agree with Nick that Chris
:06:07. > :06:10.Smith has been setup in this situation. David Cameron went to the
:06:11. > :06:17.Somerset Levels on Friday for about half an hour, in and out, with no
:06:18. > :06:24.angry people shouting at him. You to a farm. It is agreed he has had good
:06:25. > :06:30.crisis. But we are seen as being a London media class who does not
:06:31. > :06:34.understand the countryside. You can imagine David Cameron in a pair of
:06:35. > :06:40.wellies. If this was happening in Guildford, it would not have dragged
:06:41. > :06:43.on for so long. Looe it is interesting how they are saying the
:06:44. > :06:49.Environment Agency has put words in front of everything else. The
:06:50. > :06:53.great-great-grandson of Queen Victoria thinks people should be
:06:54. > :06:57.sacked at the whim. He is talking about how the Environment Agency
:06:58. > :07:03.spent ?31 million on a bird sanctuary. It turns out the bird
:07:04. > :07:08.sanctuary was an attempt to put up a flood defence system for a village
:07:09. > :07:12.which has worked. That village has been saved. They compensated some
:07:13. > :07:17.farmers for the farmland they were not going to be able to farm and put
:07:18. > :07:26.a flood defence system further back to protect this village and then
:07:27. > :07:29.they built a bird sanctuary. It was not ?31 million to create a bird
:07:30. > :07:35.sanctuary, it was to save a village and it worked. But in 2008 the
:07:36. > :07:40.Environment Agency was talking about dynamiting every pumping agency
:07:41. > :07:45.There was a metropolitan mindset on the part of that agency. If it does
:07:46. > :07:51.what Owen Paterson, who is now off in an eye operation, suggested a
:07:52. > :07:56.plan to fix this, they will find a lot of what they want or need to do
:07:57. > :08:04.will be in contravention of European directives. The Wythenshawe
:08:05. > :08:09.by-election. There is no question Labour is going to win, probably
:08:10. > :08:14.incredibly convincingly, one poll showing 60% plus of the vote. It
:08:15. > :08:19.would be surprising if Labour was in any threat up there. The issue is,
:08:20. > :08:25.does UKIP beat the Tories and if so, by how much? The latest poll was
:08:26. > :08:32.showing it in second place as nip and tuck, but the feeling I have is
:08:33. > :08:35.UKIP will do better. And they have got a great local candidate. The
:08:36. > :08:40.Tories have not parachuted somebody in and they have got a local man in
:08:41. > :08:44.and that will help them. We have all been waiting to see if the Tories
:08:45. > :08:53.lose their head, but they might go chicken earlier than that. Will UKIP
:08:54. > :08:58.come second? It looks like that A poll this week showed that Labour is
:08:59. > :09:03.way ahead and UKIP possibly second. But it is an important by-election
:09:04. > :09:08.for UKIP. If they do well in the European elections, they should
:09:09. > :09:11.still be on a roll. They did really well in by-elections last year. If
:09:12. > :09:17.they do not do well, is it because they are not on payroll? Or in
:09:18. > :09:23.Manchester they have a fantastic leader of the council? Will UKIP
:09:24. > :09:27.come a good second? I think they will and if they do not, it might
:09:28. > :09:34.suggest Nigel Farage is losing its slightly. One thing to look out for
:09:35. > :09:39.is how little Labour are attacking UKIP. Their election strategy relies
:09:40. > :09:45.a lot on UKIP taking Tory votes But it could also take Labour votes
:09:46. > :09:50.Particularly in the north and we shall see. The results will be out
:09:51. > :09:57.on Thursday night. The Speaker of the House of Commons, John Bird ,
:09:58. > :10:03.his interventions have become more frequent and something was strange.
:10:04. > :10:10.Have a look. I am grateful to the honourable gentleman. Order, the
:10:11. > :10:15.Government Chief Whip has absolutely no business whatsoever shouting from
:10:16. > :10:20.a sedentary position. Order, the honourable gentleman will remain in
:10:21. > :10:28.the chamber. If we could tackle this problem. I say to the honourable
:10:29. > :10:32.member for Bridgwater, be quiet if you cannot be quiet, get out, it is
:10:33. > :10:51.rude, stupid and pompous and it needs to stop. Michael Gove. Order.
:10:52. > :10:57.You really... Order. You are a very over excitable individual. You need
:10:58. > :11:01.to write out 1000 times, I will behave myself at Prime Minister 's
:11:02. > :11:07.questions. He was talking to the Education Secretary and it is not
:11:08. > :11:16.1000 lines, it is 100 lines, at least it was in my day. Is he
:11:17. > :11:19.beginning to make a fool of himself? There was only one over excitable
:11:20. > :11:22.person there and that was the speaker and he is losing the
:11:23. > :11:27.confidence of the Conservative MPs, but he never had that in the first
:11:28. > :11:32.place. But he is an incredibly reforming speaker. He has this
:11:33. > :11:39.strange idea that Parliament should hold the Government to account. It
:11:40. > :11:44.will never catch on. It means very frequently there are urgent
:11:45. > :11:47.questions. The other day he called a backbench amendment on the
:11:48. > :11:53.deportation of foreign criminals. He could have found a way not to call
:11:54. > :11:57.that. He is a real reformer and the executive do not like that. That is
:11:58. > :12:05.true and he has allowed Parliament to flourish which has given us room
:12:06. > :12:09.to breathe at a time of a coalition Government when Parliament has more
:12:10. > :12:15.power. That is all that enough to overcome these increasingly mannered
:12:16. > :12:22.and some of them may be preplanned interventions? The last one was last
:12:23. > :12:30.week, and last week the speaker had a rather stressful week with the
:12:31. > :12:36.tabloids. Something is clearly up. I think it is a real shame. I think
:12:37. > :12:40.many of us when he was elected did not think he would make a great
:12:41. > :12:45.speaker and there are people like Douglas Carswell and Tory rebels who
:12:46. > :12:50.have said he is a fantastic speaker. He has given the Commons room to
:12:51. > :12:55.breathe and he has called on ministers to be held to account when
:12:56. > :13:00.they do not want to be. What do you think? He is seen as anti-government
:13:01. > :13:06.and he is pro-backbencher and that is what people do not like. People
:13:07. > :13:13.like Douglas Carswell are actually very strongly in support of him We
:13:14. > :13:17.carry the interventions every week on Prime Minister 's questions and
:13:18. > :13:21.we see them every week and they are getting a bit more eccentric. If I
:13:22. > :13:28.was having to keep that under control, I would be driven slowly
:13:29. > :13:33.mad. But his job is easier than mine. But if you look at his
:13:34. > :13:40.deputy, Eleanor Laing, she is very robust, but she is calm. Chap who
:13:41. > :13:49.does the budget is excellent. We are on throughout the week at midday on
:13:50. > :13:52.BBC Two. We will be back next Sunday at 11. If it is Sunday, it is the
:13:53. > :13:59.Sunday Politics.