:00:37. > :00:41.Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:42. > :00:43.Fears that Ukraine could face invasion escalate this morning as
:00:44. > :00:48.Russian forces take control of Crimea. President Obama and his
:00:49. > :00:53.European allies tell President Putin to back off. It doesn't sound like
:00:54. > :00:55.he's listening. Shadow Education Secretary Tristram
:00:56. > :01:00.Hunt has started spelling out Labour's plans for schools. So
:01:01. > :01:05.what's the verdict - full marks or must try harder? He joins us for the
:01:06. > :01:08.Sunday Interview. And all the big political parties
:01:09. > :01:19.are desperate to broaden their appeal. We'll look at some unusual
:01:20. > :01:26.In the West: New free schools but had what cost? Stroud
:01:27. > :01:31.changes. And tightening household finances.
:01:32. > :01:35.And with me, as always, three journalists who'd make a clean sweep
:01:36. > :01:40.if they were handing out Oscars for political punditry in LA tonight.
:01:41. > :01:44.But just like poor old Leonardo DiCaprio they've never won so much
:01:45. > :01:48.as a Blue Peter badge! Yes, it's Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan
:01:49. > :01:50.Ganesh. Instead of acceptance speeches they'll be tweeting faster
:01:51. > :01:57.than the tears roll down Gwyneth Paltrow's face. Yes, that's as
:01:58. > :02:01.luvvie as we get on this show. Events have been moving quickly in
:02:02. > :02:04.Ukraine this weekend. The interim government in Kiev has put the
:02:05. > :02:06.Ukrainian military on full combat alert after Russia's parliament
:02:07. > :02:11.rubber-stamped the deployment of Russian troops anywhere in Ukraine.
:02:12. > :02:13.Russian troops seem already to be in control of the mainly
:02:14. > :02:17.Russian-speaking Crimea region, where Russia has a massive naval
:02:18. > :02:20.base. President Obama told President Putin that Russia has flouted
:02:21. > :02:28.international law by sending in Russian troops but the Kremlin is
:02:29. > :02:30.taking no notice. This is now turning into the worst stand-off
:02:31. > :02:32.between Russia and the West since the conflict between Georgia and
:02:33. > :02:38.Russia in 2008, though nobody expects any kind of military
:02:39. > :02:43.response from the West. Foreign Secretary William Hague is on his
:02:44. > :02:45.way to Kiev this morning to show his support for the new government,
:02:46. > :02:48.though how long it will survive is another matter. We can speak to our
:02:49. > :02:57.correspondent David Stern, he's in Kiev.
:02:58. > :03:02.As things look from Kiev, can we take it they've lost Crimea, it is
:03:03. > :03:10.now in all essence under Russian control? Yes, well for the moment,
:03:11. > :03:15.Crimea is under Russian control Russian troops in unmarked uniforms
:03:16. > :03:23.have moved throughout the peninsula taking up various positions, also at
:03:24. > :03:29.the Ismis which links Ukraine into Crimea. They've surrounded Ukrainon
:03:30. > :03:35.troops there. Three units have been captured according to a top
:03:36. > :03:39.officials. We can say at the moment Russia controls the peninsula. It
:03:40. > :03:44.should also be said, also they have the support of the ethnic Russian
:03:45. > :03:48.population. The ethnic Russians make up the majority of the population.
:03:49. > :03:55.They are also not entirely in control because there are other
:03:56. > :04:00.groups, namely the Tatar as and the ethnic Ukrainian speakers who are at
:04:01. > :04:06.least at the moment tacitly resisting. We'll see what they'll
:04:07. > :04:12.start to do in the coming days. David, I'm putting up some pictures
:04:13. > :04:17.showing Russian troops digging in on the border between Crimea and
:04:18. > :04:22.Ukraine. I get the sense that is just for show. There is, I would
:04:23. > :04:29.assume, no possibility that the Ukrainians could attempt to retake
:04:30. > :04:34.Crimea by military force? It seems that the Ukrainians are weighing
:04:35. > :04:39.their options right now. Their options are very limited. Any
:04:40. > :04:43.head-to-head conflict with Russia would probably work against the
:04:44. > :04:48.Ukrainians. They seem to be taking more of a long-term gain. They are
:04:49. > :04:53.waiting for the figs's first move. They are trying not to create any
:04:54. > :04:58.excuse that the Russians can stage an even larger incursion into Crimea
:04:59. > :05:04.or elsewhere, for that matter. They also seem to be trying to get
:05:05. > :05:06.international support. It should be said, this is a new Government. It
:05:07. > :05:09.has only been installed this week. They are trying to gain their
:05:10. > :05:16.footing. This is a major crisis They have to count on the loyalty of
:05:17. > :05:19.the army they might have some resistance from solders from the
:05:20. > :05:23.eastern part of the country who are Russian speaking. They probably
:05:24. > :05:28.could count on Ukrainian speakers and people from the centre and west
:05:29. > :05:32.of the country as well as regular Ukrainians. A lot of people are
:05:33. > :05:39.ready to fight to defend Ukrainian Terre Tory. Where does the Kremlin
:05:40. > :05:45.go next? They have Crimea to all intents and purposes. There's a weak
:05:46. > :05:48.Government in Kiev. Do they move to the eastern side of Ukraine which is
:05:49. > :05:54.largely Russian speaking and there's already been some unrest there?
:05:55. > :05:58.That's the big question, that's what everybody's really asking now. Where
:05:59. > :06:02.does this go from here? We've had some unrest in the eastern part of
:06:03. > :06:07.the country. There have been demonstrations and clashes. More
:06:08. > :06:14.ominously, there have been noises from the Kremlin they might actually
:06:15. > :06:18.move into eastern Ukraine. Putin in his conversation with Barack Obama
:06:19. > :06:22.said they might protect their interests there. It should be said,
:06:23. > :06:29.if they do expand, in fact, they've also said they are dead against the
:06:30. > :06:36.new Government seeing it as illegitimate and fascist. It does
:06:37. > :06:39.contain risks. They will have to deal with international reactions.
:06:40. > :06:44.America said there will be a deep reaction to this and it will affect
:06:45. > :06:48.Russia's relations with Ukraine and the international community. They
:06:49. > :06:53.have to deal with the reaction in Ukraine. This may unite Ukrainians
:06:54. > :07:01.behind this new interim Government. Once Russia moves in, they will be
:07:02. > :07:08.seen as an invading force. It plays on historical feelings of Russia
:07:09. > :07:14.being an imperial force. Joining me is MP Mark Field who sits
:07:15. > :07:16.on the security Security and Intelligence Committee in the House
:07:17. > :07:22.of Commons. What should the western response be to these events? I can
:07:23. > :07:31.understand why William Hague is going to Kiev tomorrow to stand side
:07:32. > :07:36.by side whizz whoever's in charge. They need to CEOP sit numbers and
:07:37. > :07:44.also President Putin. The truth is we are all co significant fatries to
:07:45. > :07:52.the Budapest Memorandum of almost 20 years ago which was designed to
:07:53. > :07:56.maintain the integrity of the Ukraine and Crimea. There needs to
:07:57. > :08:01.be a discussion along those lines. The difficulty is President Putin
:08:02. > :08:08.has watched events in recent months, in relation to Syria, it is palpable
:08:09. > :08:13.President Obama's focus of attention ask the other side of the Pacific
:08:14. > :08:17.rather than the Atlantic. The vote in the House of Commons, I was very
:08:18. > :08:22.much against the idea of military action or providing weapons to the
:08:23. > :08:28.free Syrian army. My worry is, events proved this, the majority of
:08:29. > :08:33.the other options toed as sad are rather worse. It is clear now we are
:08:34. > :08:38.in a constitutional mess in this country. We cannot even contemplate
:08:39. > :08:41.military action without a parliamentary vote that moves
:08:42. > :08:46.against quick reaction that is required from the executive or, I
:08:47. > :08:54.suspect, there will be very little appetite for any military action
:08:55. > :08:59.from the West over in Ukraine. We are corn tours under the agreement
:09:00. > :09:02.of less than 20 years ago. We may be but we've guaranteed an agreement
:09:03. > :09:07.which it is clear we haven't the power to enforce. You wrote this
:09:08. > :09:13.morning, Britain is a diminished voice. Clams Iley navigating the
:09:14. > :09:18.Syrian conflict we relick wished decisions to the whims of
:09:19. > :09:25.parliamentary approval. That may or may not be but the Kremlin's not
:09:26. > :09:30.watching how we voted on the Syrian issue? In relation to Syria, it was
:09:31. > :09:36.where is the western resolve here. The truth ask Putin's position is
:09:37. > :09:41.considerably less strong. In diplomatic terms. He had a victory
:09:42. > :09:46.in Syria in relation to chemical weapons and in relation to the
:09:47. > :09:54.West's relationship with Iran. Putin is a vital inter locking figure In
:09:55. > :09:58.demographic and economic terms, Russia's in very deep trouble. The
:09:59. > :10:04.oil price started to fall to any degree, oil and gas price, given the
:10:05. > :10:09.importance of mineral wealth and exports for the Russian economy
:10:10. > :10:16.Putin would be in a lot of trouble. It requires an engagement from the
:10:17. > :10:19.EU and the EU are intending to look at their internal economic problems
:10:20. > :10:24.and will be smarting from the failure within a matter of hours of
:10:25. > :10:29.the deal they tried to broker only nine days' ago.
:10:30. > :10:32.You say if Mr Putin decides to increase the stakes and moves into
:10:33. > :10:38.the east, takes over the whole place, our Government, you say, will
:10:39. > :10:42.find itself with another colossal international headache. Some people
:10:43. > :10:47.watching this will be thinking, what's it got to do with us? It s a
:10:48. > :10:52.long way away from Britain. We haven't a dog in this fight? We have
:10:53. > :10:58.in this regard for the longer term here. I think if there were to be
:10:59. > :11:02.some military action in Ukraine the sense of Russia taking over, it
:11:03. > :11:07.could have a major impact on the global economy in very quick order.
:11:08. > :11:11.You should not deny that. There will be move to have sanctions against
:11:12. > :11:18.Russia. The escalation of that will be difficult. The other fact is
:11:19. > :11:25.looking at our internal affairs and reform, partners, the Baltic states,
:11:26. > :11:29.Finland, Poland, the Czech Republic, they will be looking at a resurgent
:11:30. > :11:35.Russia now and think they'll need to hold as tightly as possible to the
:11:36. > :11:42.EU institutions and the power of Germany at the centre of that. This
:11:43. > :11:47.whole appetite for the reforms politically and economically will be
:11:48. > :11:53.closed very much within a matter of a short period of time. It has
:11:54. > :12:02.longer term implications. Mark Field, thank you.
:12:03. > :12:06.We're joined now by BBC News night's Diplomatic Editor Mark Urban. Is
:12:07. > :12:13.there any prospect of a western military response? Clearly at the
:12:14. > :12:18.moment, it is nil. The boat has sailed with the Crimean. It has been
:12:19. > :12:25.per performed by Russian forces It is now a matter of coordinating a
:12:26. > :12:31.plate cal line. European foreign ministers tomorrow. To say what will
:12:32. > :12:35.our future limits be? Where could we possibly draw red lines? To try to
:12:36. > :12:41.think a couple of steps down this, what happens if Russia interrupts
:12:42. > :12:44.energy supplies to EU member states ornate owe countries? These are the
:12:45. > :12:49.important steps they have to think about. It is quite clear we are in a
:12:50. > :12:54.different world here now. Also, Ukraine is facing a urgent foreign
:12:55. > :12:59.exchange crisis. Within literally a few weeks they could run out of
:13:00. > :13:04.money. All of these are rushing towards decision makers very fast.
:13:05. > :13:09.There is an interim and I suggestion unstable Government in Kiev. Crimea
:13:10. > :13:12.semi-to be under Russian control. There are clashes between the
:13:13. > :13:17.reformers and Russian nationals in the east of the country. What does
:13:18. > :13:22.Mr Putin do next? He has lots of options, of course. He has this
:13:23. > :13:29.carte blanch carte blanch from his Parliament to go in to the rest of
:13:30. > :13:33.Ukraine if he wants to. His military deployment suggests the one bite at
:13:34. > :13:37.a time, just Crimea to start with. See what response comes from the
:13:38. > :13:42.Ukrainian Government. Of course so far, there hasn't been a coherent
:13:43. > :13:46.response. The really worrying thing about recent months, not just recent
:13:47. > :13:52.days, are the indications that the future of Ukraine as a unitary state
:13:53. > :14:00.is now in doubt. Look at it from the other side of the equation. The
:14:01. > :14:04.President when faced with demonstrations, many extremists he
:14:05. > :14:09.was unable to deal with that. Now we have the other side, if you like,
:14:10. > :14:14.the Russian speakers, the other side of the fight, Russian nationalists
:14:15. > :14:22.showing they can get away with unilateral action more or less with
:14:23. > :14:26.impunity. The Ukrainian chiefs have been sacked. I think there are
:14:27. > :14:34.considerable questions now as to whether Ukraine is falling apart
:14:35. > :14:36.and, if that happens, we're into a Yugoslav-type situation which will
:14:37. > :14:44.continue posing very serious questions for the EU and NATO for
:14:45. > :14:52.months or years to come. So, Janan, Ukraine is over? Where the west to
:14:53. > :14:58.concede to the Russian in Crimea, it would perversely be a net loss for
:14:59. > :15:03.Russia. You'd assume the rest of Ukraine would become an un
:15:04. > :15:13.unambiguously a member of the the EU, maybe NATO. On top of that a
:15:14. > :15:16.Russian dream of Eurasion dream they will look at Putin's behaviour
:15:17. > :15:21.and is a, no, thanks, we'll head towards the EU. It is a short-term
:15:22. > :15:35.victory for Putin which backfires on his broader goals in Well, many
:15:36. > :15:41.people said if he grabs Crimea, he loses Ukraine, which is your point.
:15:42. > :15:46.We have seen violent demonstrations in the big eastern cities in Ukraine
:15:47. > :15:51.yesterday. People taking control of certain buildings. The risk is there
:15:52. > :15:55.of spreading beyond Crimea. I think the lack of any unified or visible
:15:56. > :15:59.response from Ukrainian armed forces... They allowed Russian
:16:00. > :16:03.troops to walk into the bases in Crimea. They have supposedly gone on
:16:04. > :16:07.red alert but they have done absolutely nothing. We don't see
:16:08. > :16:10.them deploying from barracks. There are serious questions about whether
:16:11. > :16:19.they would just fall apart. Putin is not going to let them split away. I
:16:20. > :16:23.would have thought he would like the entire Ukraine to come into the
:16:24. > :16:28.Russian ambit. Barack Obama is saying this will not stand. He has a
:16:29. > :16:33.90 minute conversation with Vladimir Putin and what is his response? I am
:16:34. > :16:40.suspending my cooperation in the run-up to the Sochi Summit. What is
:16:41. > :16:44.the EU doing? Nothing. There is nothing they can do and Putin knows
:16:45. > :16:49.there are a series of lines that he is able to cross and get away with
:16:50. > :16:55.it. Why should Berlin, London, Washington be surprised by the
:16:56. > :17:00.strength of Vladimir Putin's reaction? It was never going to let
:17:01. > :17:06.Ukraine just fall into the arms of the EU. That is the interesting
:17:07. > :17:09.point. And who does he listen to? Paddy Ashdown was saying sent Angela
:17:10. > :17:13.Merkel because she is the only person who can talk to him and I
:17:14. > :17:17.find that response worrying. We need to speak with a united voice but
:17:18. > :17:22.nobody knows what we should be saying. Military intervention is out
:17:23. > :17:26.for the West so we go to economic sanctions. Doesn't Vladimir Putin
:17:27. > :17:33.just say, oh, you want sanctions? I have turned off the gas tap. Yes, it
:17:34. > :17:37.is move and countermove, and it is difficult to predict where it will
:17:38. > :17:42.end up. In all these meetings that are being held, they do think a step
:17:43. > :18:13.or two ahead and try and set out clear lines. Thank you for coming in
:18:14. > :18:16.this morning. Labour has been struggling since
:18:17. > :18:18.2010 to decide exactly how to take education secretary Michael Gove,
:18:19. > :18:20.one of the boldest reformers of the coalition and most divisive figures.
:18:21. > :18:22.Ed Miliband appointed TV historian Tristram Hunt and many thought
:18:23. > :18:25.Labour had found the man to teach Michael Gove a lesson. But how much
:18:26. > :18:27.do we really know about the party's plans for England's schools? Wales,
:18:28. > :18:30.Scotland and Northern Ireland are a devolved matter. Child has been back
:18:31. > :18:32.to school to find out. A politician once told me, do you know why
:18:33. > :18:34.education secretaries changed schools? Because they can. Michael
:18:35. > :18:37.Gove might dispute the motive but he is changing schools, like this one.
:18:38. > :18:39.The changes he is ringing in our encouraging them to be academies,
:18:40. > :18:41.free from local authorities to control their own budgets, ushering
:18:42. > :18:43.in free schools, focusing on toughening exams and making them the
:18:44. > :18:47.core of the curriculum with less coursework, and offering heads more
:18:48. > :18:53.discretion on tougher discipline. And he is in a hurry to put all this
:18:54. > :18:57.in place. But has that shut out any chance for a Labour Government to
:18:58. > :19:02.change it all themselves and do they really want to? Any questions?
:19:03. > :19:07.Visiting a different school, first in line to get a crack at that
:19:08. > :19:11.would-be Labour's third shadow education secretary since 2010,
:19:12. > :19:14.Tristram Hunt. In post, he has not been taken about fine tuning
:19:15. > :19:18.previous direct opposition to free schools and he has also suggested
:19:19. > :19:22.teachers in England would have to be licensed under a Labour Government,
:19:23. > :19:26.allowing the worst to be sacked and offering training and development to
:19:27. > :19:30.others and of course ending coalition plans to allow unqualified
:19:31. > :19:40.teachers into classrooms. Full policy detail is still unmarked
:19:41. > :19:46.work. Your opinion about evolution? What is very clear is that Labour's
:19:47. > :19:50.education policy is still evolving. We are learning that they have some
:19:51. > :19:55.clear water, but we also seem, from the sting at the back, to get the
:19:56. > :19:58.feeling that there is not a great deal of difference from them and the
:19:59. > :20:03.current Government on types of schools and the way education should
:20:04. > :20:09.proceed. -- from listening at the back. So what exactly is different
:20:10. > :20:14.about their policy? What Tristram Hunt's job is to do is to be open
:20:15. > :20:19.and honest about the shared agenda between us and the Tories. There are
:20:20. > :20:22.a lot of areas where there is clear water between us and Tristram Hunt
:20:23. > :20:27.as to turn his back, shared agenda, stop fighting it, and forge our
:20:28. > :20:33.agenda, which I think people will be really interested in. The art of
:20:34. > :20:39.Government, of course, is to balance competing pictures of policy, even
:20:40. > :20:42.inside your own party. It is fair to say that if Labour reflects and
:20:43. > :20:46.draws its own visions of a shared agenda, it might have to square that
:20:47. > :20:50.idea with teaching unions, who are already unhappy with the pace and
:20:51. > :20:55.tone of change that the Government had sketched out. What we sincerely
:20:56. > :20:59.hope is that if Labour were to form the next Government, that they would
:21:00. > :21:21.look at a serious review of accountability measures. That is
:21:22. > :21:24.really what ways on teachers every single day. Actually they would look
:21:25. > :21:26.at restoring the possibility, for example, of local councillors to be
:21:27. > :21:29.able to open schools. That seems eminently sensible. If they are not
:21:30. > :21:31.going to move back from the free schools and academies programme at
:21:32. > :21:34.the very least they need to say that academy chains will be inspected
:21:35. > :21:36.because at the moment they are not. Labour have balls in the air on
:21:37. > :21:39.education and are still throwing around precise policy detail. There
:21:40. > :21:41.are areas that they could grab hold of and seize possession. A focus on
:21:42. > :21:43.the rounding of the people, developing character, the impact of
:21:44. > :21:46.digitalisation on the classroom Also the role and handling of
:21:47. > :21:50.teachers in the system and the interdependence of schools. That is
:21:51. > :21:54.all still to play for. Currently I think the difference between the
:21:55. > :21:59.parties is that the coalition policies, while we do not agree with
:22:00. > :22:03.all of them, are clear and explicit, and Labour's policies are yet to be
:22:04. > :22:10.formulated in a way that everybody can understand clearly. I don't
:22:11. > :22:17.think that Tristram Hunt or Miliband will want to pick unnecessary fights
:22:18. > :22:23.before the election. I think we will have quite a red, pinkish fuzziness
:22:24. > :22:29.around the whole area of policy but after the election there will be
:22:30. > :22:34.grey steel from Tristram Hunt. But if fuzzy policy before the election
:22:35. > :22:38.is the lesson plan, it does rather risk interested voters being left in
:22:39. > :22:48.the dark. Tristram Hunt joins me now for the
:22:49. > :22:54.Sunday interview. Welcome. Thank you. Which of Michael
:22:55. > :22:58.Gove's school reforms would you repeal? We are not interested in
:22:59. > :23:01.throwing a change for the sake of it. When I go round schools,
:23:02. > :23:05.teachers have been through very aggressive changes in the last three
:23:06. > :23:08.years, so when it comes to some of the curriculum reforms we have seen,
:23:09. > :23:13.we are not interested in changing those for the sake of it. Where we
:23:14. > :23:17.are interested in making change is having a focus on technical and
:23:18. > :23:22.vocational education, making sure that the forgotten 15% is properly
:23:23. > :23:26.addressed in our education system. What we saw in your package was an
:23:27. > :23:29.interesting description of how we have seen structural reforms in the
:23:30. > :23:33.names of schools. Academies, free schools, all the rest of it.
:23:34. > :23:36.International evidence is clear that it is the quality of leadership of
:23:37. > :23:40.the headteachers and the quality of teaching in the classroom that
:23:41. > :23:45.transforms the prospects of young people. Instead of tinkering around
:23:46. > :23:48.the names of schools, we focus on teacher quality. Viewers will be
:23:49. > :24:05.shocked to note that this Government approves of unqualified teachers in
:24:06. > :24:06.the classroom. We want to have fully qualified, passionate, motivated
:24:07. > :24:09.teachers in the classroom. It sounds like you might not repeal anything.
:24:10. > :24:11.You might build on it and you might go in a different direction, with
:24:12. > :24:14.more emphasis on technological education but no major repeal of the
:24:15. > :24:18.reforms of Michael Gove? I don't think you want to waste energy on
:24:19. > :24:22.undoing reforms. In certain situations they build on Labour
:24:23. > :24:27.Party policy. We introduced the sponsored academy programmes and we
:24:28. > :24:33.began the Teach First programmes, and we began the London challenge
:24:34. > :24:36.which transformed the educational prospects of children in London We
:24:37. > :24:40.want to roll that out across the country. You have said there will be
:24:41. > :24:45.no more free schools, which Michael Gove introduced, but you will allow
:24:46. > :24:54.parents let academies, which just means free schools by a different
:24:55. > :24:58.name. No, because they will be in certain areas. We want to create new
:24:59. > :25:02.schools with parents. What we have at the moment is a destructive and
:25:03. > :25:05.market-driven approach to education. I was in Stroud on
:25:06. > :25:11.Thursday and plans for a big new school, in an area with surplus
:25:12. > :25:15.places, threatened to destroy the viability of local, rural schools.
:25:16. > :25:18.We want schools to work together in a network of partnership and
:25:19. > :25:22.challenge, rather than this destructive market-driven approach.
:25:23. > :25:48.You say that, but your version of free schools, I think, would only be
:25:49. > :25:50.allowed where there is a shortage of places. That means that where there
:25:51. > :25:53.is an excess of bad schools, parents will have no choice. They still have
:25:54. > :25:56.to send their kids to bad schools. And we have to transform bad schools
:25:57. > :25:59.and that was always the Labour way in Government. At the moment we just
:26:00. > :26:00.have an insertion of new schools. Schools currently underperforming
:26:01. > :26:03.are now underperforming even more. Children only have one chance at
:26:04. > :26:05.education. What about their time in school? Our focus is on the
:26:06. > :26:07.leadership of the headteacher and having quality teachers in the
:26:08. > :26:10.classroom. So they cannot set up new better schools and they have to go
:26:11. > :26:13.to the bad schools. Tony Blair said it should be easier for parents to
:26:14. > :26:16.set up new schools where they are dissatisfied with existing schools.
:26:17. > :26:19.You are not saying that. Even where they are dissatisfied with existing
:26:20. > :26:25.schools, they cannot set up free schools and you are reneging on
:26:26. > :26:29.that. We live in difficult economic circumstances where we have got to
:26:30. > :26:36.focus public finances on the areas of absolute need. We need 250,0 0
:26:37. > :26:40.new school places. 150,000 in London alone. We have to focus on building
:26:41. > :26:48.new schools and where we have to put them. And secondly... Absolutely
:26:49. > :26:53.not. Focusing on those schools. Making sure we turned them around,
:26:54. > :26:56.just as we did in Government. We have had a remarkable degree of
:26:57. > :27:00.waste under the free school programme. If you think of the free
:27:01. > :27:05.school in Derby, the Academy in Bradford, and as we saw in the
:27:06. > :27:09.Telegraph on Friday, the free schools in Suffolk, a great deal of
:27:10. > :27:12.waste of public money on underperforming free schools. That
:27:13. > :27:16.is not the Labour way. We focus on making sure that kids in schools at
:27:17. > :27:22.the moment get the best possible education. Except that in your own
:27:23. > :27:29.backyard, in Stoke, only 34% of secondary school pupils attend a
:27:30. > :27:34.good or outstanding school. 148 out of 150 of the worst performing local
:27:35. > :27:37.authorities and it is Labour-controlled. Still terrible
:27:38. > :27:43.schools and yet you say parents should not have the freedom to start
:27:44. > :27:46.a better school. We have great schools in Stoke-on-Trent as well.
:27:47. > :27:51.We face challenges, just as Wolverhampton does and the Isle of
:27:52. > :27:56.Wight and Lincolnshire. Just like large parts of the country. What is
:27:57. > :28:00.the solution to that? Making sure we share excellence among the existing
:28:01. > :28:04.schools and making sure we have quality leadership in schools. Those
:28:05. > :28:08.schools in Stoke-on-Trent are all academies. It is not a question only
:28:09. > :28:11.of structure but of leadership. It is also a question of going back to
:28:12. > :28:15.the responsibility of parents to make sure their kids are school
:28:16. > :28:50.ready when they get to school. To make sure they are reading to their
:28:51. > :28:52.children in the evening. We can t put it all on teachers. Parents have
:28:53. > :28:55.responsibilities. I understand that but you have told me Labour's policy
:28:56. > :28:58.would not be to set up new schools which parents hope will be better.
:28:59. > :29:01.Parents continue to send their kids to bad schools in areas like Stoke.
:29:02. > :29:03.Labour has had plenty of time to sort out these schools in Stoke and
:29:04. > :29:05.they are still among the worst performing in the country. You are
:29:06. > :29:08.condemning these parents to having to send their kids to bad schools.
:29:09. > :29:11.Where we have seen the sett ing up of Derby, Suffolk, we have seen that
:29:12. > :29:14.is not the simple solution. Is simply setting up a new is not a
:29:15. > :29:16.successful model. What works is good leadership. I was in Birmingham on
:29:17. > :29:19.Friday at a failing comprehensive is not a successful model. What works
:29:20. > :29:21.is good leadership. I was in Birmingham on Friday at a failing
:29:22. > :29:24.comprehensive school and now people are queueing round the block to get
:29:25. > :29:25.into it. You can turn around schools with the right leadership,
:29:26. > :29:30.passionate and motivated teachers, and parents engaged with the
:29:31. > :29:36.learning outcome of their kids. In the last few years of the Labour
:29:37. > :29:39.Government, only four kids from your this Government would set up the new
:29:40. > :29:41.school. In Birmingham, they got in a great headmaster and turned the
:29:42. > :29:43.school around and now people are queueing round the block to get into
:29:44. > :29:45.it. You can turnaround schools with the right leadership, passionate and
:29:46. > :29:48.motivated teachers, and parents engaged with the learning outcome of
:29:49. > :29:51.their kids. In the last few years of a Labour Government, only four kids
:29:52. > :29:54.from your area of and you had plenty of chances to put this right but
:29:55. > :29:57.only four got to the two and you had plenty of chances to put this right
:29:58. > :30:03.but only four got to the two leading universities. Traditionally young
:30:04. > :30:07.people could leave school at 16 and walking two jobs in the potteries,
:30:08. > :30:10.the steel industry, the traditionally young people could
:30:11. > :30:16.leave school at 16 and walking two jobs in the potteries, the steel
:30:17. > :30:21.industry, the but also to get an apprenticeship at Jaguar Land
:30:22. > :30:27.Rover, JCB, Rolls-Royce. That is why Ed Miliband's focus on the forgotten
:30:28. > :30:30.15%, which we have just not seen from this Government, focusing on
:30:31. > :30:51.technical and vocational pathways, is fundamental to Your headmaster
:30:52. > :30:59.was guiles Slaughter. Was he a good teacher? He He never taught me.
:31:00. > :31:04.Over 90% of teeners in the private sector are qualified. They look for
:31:05. > :31:09.not simply teachers with qualified teacher status. Teachers with MAs.
:31:10. > :31:11.Teachers who are improving them cephalitis. Becoming better
:31:12. > :31:21.educators. cephalitis. Becoming better
:31:22. > :31:25.teaching. You were taught by unqualified teachers. Your parents
:31:26. > :31:29.paid over ?15,000 a year for you being taught by unqualified
:31:30. > :31:33.teachers. Why did you make such a big deal of it? Because we've seen
:31:34. > :31:39.right around the world those education systems which focus on
:31:40. > :31:45.having the most qualified teachers perform the best. It cannot be right
:31:46. > :31:50.that anyone can simply turn up, as at the moment, have schools at
:31:51. > :31:55.veritising for unqualified teachers teaching in the classroom. We want
:31:56. > :32:01.the best qualified teachers with the deepest subject knowledge, for the
:32:02. > :32:07.passion in learning for their kids. It is absurd we are having arguments
:32:08. > :32:11.about this. Simply having a paper qualification doesn't make you a
:32:12. > :32:17.great teacher. Let me take you to Brighton college. It is gone from
:32:18. > :32:20.the 147th to the 18 18th best private school in the land. Fllt the
:32:21. > :32:42.headmaster says: This is the top Sundaytimes school
:32:43. > :32:48.of the year. The school in derby where this Government allowed
:32:49. > :32:53.unqualified teaching assist taints. We had teachers who could barely
:32:54. > :32:57.speak English. That is because if you have unqualified teachers you
:32:58. > :33:01.end up with a dangerous situation. The problem with that school was not
:33:02. > :33:08.unqualified teachers. People were running that school who were unfit
:33:09. > :33:11.to run a school. We have an issue about discipline and behaviour
:33:12. > :33:15.management in some of our schools. Some of the skills teachers gain
:33:16. > :33:20.through qualifications and learning is how to manage classes and get the
:33:21. > :33:24.best out of kids at every stage It doesn't end with a qualified teacher
:33:25. > :33:29.status. That's just the beginning. We want our teachers to have
:33:30. > :33:34.continue it will development. It is not good enough to have your initial
:33:35. > :33:40.teacher trainingaged work through your career for 30 years. You need
:33:41. > :33:45.continual learning. Learning how to deal with digital technology.
:33:46. > :33:50.Refresh your subject knowledge. As an historian I help teachers. You've
:33:51. > :33:56.taught as an unqualified teacher. Not in charge of a subject group. I
:33:57. > :34:02.give the odd lecture. I'm-y to go to as many schools as possible. I don't
:34:03. > :34:07.blame you. It is uplifting. Would you sack all unqualified teachers?
:34:08. > :34:14.We'd want them all to gain teacher status. What if they say no? If they
:34:15. > :34:20.are not interested in improving skills and deepening their knowledge
:34:21. > :34:27.they should not be in the classroom. If a free school or academy hired a
:34:28. > :34:32.teach thinking they are a great teacher but unqualified, if they are
:34:33. > :34:37.then forced by you to fire them they will be in breach of the law.
:34:38. > :34:41.They are being urged by us to make sure they have qualified teacher
:34:42. > :34:45.status. We've lots of unqualified teachers as long as they are on the
:34:46. > :34:49.pathway to making sure they are qualified. But if they say they
:34:50. > :34:53.don't want to do this, will you fire them? It is not an unreasonable
:34:54. > :34:58.suggestion is that the teachers in charge of our young people have
:34:59. > :35:03.qualifications to teach and inspire our young people particularly when
:35:04. > :35:10.we face global competition from Shanghai, Korea and so on. The head
:35:11. > :35:15.teacher of Brighton college finds incredibly inspeechational teachers
:35:16. > :35:20.who don't' necessarily have a teaching qualifications. It is a
:35:21. > :35:27.different skill to teach ten young nice boys and girls in Brighton to
:35:28. > :35:30.teaches 20 or 30 quids with challenging circumstances, special
:35:31. > :35:35.educational needs, different ability. Being a teacher at Brighton
:35:36. > :35:42.college is an easy gig in comparison to other schools. Where we want
:35:43. > :35:47.teachers to have a capacity to teach properly. Do you think Tristram
:35:48. > :35:53.could ever lead the Labour Party? I think Ed is a great leader, the
:35:54. > :35:57.reforms yesterday were a real sign for his leadership. And the fact
:35:58. > :36:02.David Owen, the man with a pre-history with our party is back
:36:03. > :36:06.with us. It is great. Even Gideon had to change his name to George.
:36:07. > :36:16.Have you thought of switching to Tommy or Tony? Maybe not Tony!
:36:17. > :36:20.Michael Foot was called Dingle Foot. I love the Labour because it accepts
:36:21. > :36:25.everybody from me to Len McCluskey. We are a big, broad happy family on
:36:26. > :36:30.our way to Government. Thank you very much.
:36:31. > :36:35.You're watching The Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in
:36:36. > :36:38.Scotland who leave us for Sunday politics Scotland. In over 20
:36:39. > :36:58.minutes I'll Has welcome to Sunday Politics in
:36:59. > :37:02.the West. Would you open a new school in an area where they already
:37:03. > :37:07.have hundreds of surplus places That is what these parents hope to
:37:08. > :37:15.do in Stroud. We will hear from Michael Gove. Let's meet our guests
:37:16. > :37:23.who are here this week. David Drew who hopes to have a return to
:37:24. > :37:31.Westminster in the next election. And George Ferguson, Mayor of
:37:32. > :37:37.Bristol. Let's start with the badger cull which was mired in yet more
:37:38. > :37:42.controversy this week. Your thoughts on the findings of this independent
:37:43. > :37:51.panel which claimed the cull was neither effective nor humane. It was
:37:52. > :37:58.so predictable. Why did we go on with this, why did we waste so much
:37:59. > :38:03.money? Hopefully now we can now move forward, look for a vaccination
:38:04. > :38:09.strategy and get away from the daft idea you can cull your way to
:38:10. > :38:16.dealing with this dreadful disease. It was a lack of alternatives, was
:38:17. > :38:20.it not? I don't know, David is probably right, there was an
:38:21. > :38:28.alternative. It makes you angry when you think 10 million could be better
:38:29. > :38:34.spent. It is sad and an example of central government not really being
:38:35. > :38:41.in touch with reality. The government's enthusiastic for free
:38:42. > :38:46.schools is controversial. We are there are excess school places it is
:38:47. > :38:53.even more controversial. We will hear what the secretary of state
:38:54. > :39:00.thinks about one approach after this report. This sort of school used to
:39:01. > :39:08.be a bit alternative but the opening of the first Steiner free school in
:39:09. > :39:10.2012 which can now be funded by taxpayers. The government
:39:11. > :39:17.enthusiastic for more free schools and this group in Stroud have been
:39:18. > :39:21.working on their plans. They are still working on played it might go
:39:22. > :39:30.but their application has gone in. The feed as it will result in lots
:39:31. > :39:34.of empty places. There will be new children who need to be
:39:35. > :39:42.accommodated. We will join the family of schools here and it will
:39:43. > :39:49.be a lovely edition. This week, Labour's Shadow Education Secretary.
:39:50. > :39:56.Plans are in place to cater for the growing population which a new free
:39:57. > :40:03.school could disrupt. I understand there are 300 surplus places in the
:40:04. > :40:08.area. We have good schools operating in the area. Introducing another
:40:09. > :40:14.free school into that mix does not seem necessarily the right approach.
:40:15. > :40:19.He heard the campaign against the preschool which would cost millions.
:40:20. > :40:25.We have to be very careful about every penny we spend and at the same
:40:26. > :40:29.time be prepared to consider an application for a free school which
:40:30. > :40:40.will spend millions of pounds of taxpayers money. It will be
:40:41. > :40:44.unconventional imported teachers. We do not have to follow the national
:40:45. > :40:51.curriculum but we have to meet certain benchmarks to deceive the
:40:52. > :40:55.funding from government. It is nothing new. In 2011 when the
:40:56. > :40:59.blissful free school opened here and there were threats of legal action
:41:00. > :41:05.from the head of a nearby secondary who had empty desks. The education
:41:06. > :41:11.was not to be deterred then and he is here today for what he considers
:41:12. > :41:16.to be a great success. Michael Gove toured and met the pupils. It is
:41:17. > :41:24.oversubscribed which he says there is evidence that free schools are
:41:25. > :41:30.popular with parents. Bristol free school was one of the first. There
:41:31. > :41:36.are now 174 up and running with more like Stroud hoping to join them I
:41:37. > :41:42.caught up with the Education Secretary and asked whether it was
:41:43. > :41:47.right for the state to fund start`up schools? We do not prescribe from
:41:48. > :41:52.the centre of what good should look like. We let different teachers and
:41:53. > :41:57.different heads set up free schools to achieve a different kind of
:41:58. > :42:05.educational attainment to different pupils. There are state schools
:42:06. > :42:10.under the last government which have been successful. It is important to
:42:11. > :42:17.recognise that we should, at certain points, let the professionals get on
:42:18. > :42:23.with the job and decide on the style of education. If standards fall then
:42:24. > :42:29.we should intervene. You are trying to these standards, don't you want
:42:30. > :42:34.uniformity of curriculum? There is no tension between making sure
:42:35. > :42:39.teachers and heads have a greater freedom of curriculum, they are the
:42:40. > :42:43.experts, but intervening if things go wrong. We have done in the past
:42:44. > :42:49.20 has been under performance and we have had to take action. Exam
:42:50. > :42:55.results have often alerted us to things going wrong. In free schools
:42:56. > :43:01.we are seeing real improvement and academies as well are outperforming
:43:02. > :43:06.other schools. We struggle with poor teaching yet we're you are bringing
:43:07. > :43:11.in an sanctioning free schools with unqualified teachers. They may not
:43:12. > :43:15.have a specific piece of paper that confers on them a title but that
:43:16. > :43:20.piece of paper does not make the difference between a good teacher
:43:21. > :43:24.and the bad teacher. In Weston`super`Mare there is the head
:43:25. > :43:28.teacher who has hired someone who is the manager and Tesco who teaches
:43:29. > :43:37.business studies, hands`on experience. Some of the people in
:43:38. > :43:43.other schools do not have the piece of paper but are still brilliant
:43:44. > :43:48.teachers. That bit of paper, it surely it is important, the
:43:49. > :43:52.qualification to say you can teach children. I do not like that
:43:53. > :43:57.dismissed as just a piece of paper, it is the a lot of training and
:43:58. > :44:04.understanding. Teaching is not just about knowledge, it is also a real
:44:05. > :44:07.skill. There are some people who can teach brilliantly and naturally but
:44:08. > :44:16.I absolutely am against undermining the importance of properly trained
:44:17. > :44:20.teachers. What do you make of it? More and more schools opening up
:44:21. > :44:25.with teachers perhaps bringing experience but not a teaching
:44:26. > :44:30.qualification. Goal now, I cannot build the house so why do we believe
:44:31. > :44:35.someone can just come into teaching? I trained to be a teacher, I was a
:44:36. > :44:47.good teacher but I happened to go into politics. Whatever government
:44:48. > :44:50.is in power they have to stop this. These diesels have more control over
:44:51. > :44:59.their own curriculum where parents can make decisions, is there a place
:45:00. > :45:04.for that? I am all for freedom of choice part in Stroud we do not need
:45:05. > :45:10.a free school. We have all these places. Any time bust their budgets
:45:11. > :45:13.to talk about ?6 million as an initial start`up is completely
:45:14. > :45:19.unacceptable. I also think the way it has been done is entirely
:45:20. > :45:25.difficult so I am worried about what will come out of this. The fact is,
:45:26. > :45:30.you are setting school against school. The reality is it will be
:45:31. > :45:41.about trying to grab Hoople 's two Phil places. `` grab pupils to fill
:45:42. > :45:46.places. It to the market environment, what is wrong with
:45:47. > :45:51.that? We need more schools in Bristol, it would be entirely
:45:52. > :45:56.sensible to invest in schools of whatever kind in Bristol. I would
:45:57. > :46:04.love to have the money that is going into the Steiner school. Even if it
:46:05. > :46:09.is body Steiner free school? ICOM dogma free as far as schools are
:46:10. > :46:19.concerned, my only concern is that we raise the standards of education
:46:20. > :46:24.right across the country. I do not think they are elitist schools, they
:46:25. > :46:29.have specialities, there is one that specialises in music but not to the
:46:30. > :46:34.exclusion of anything else. Some parents like to be able to choose Es
:46:35. > :46:38.bestiality, I'd buy into that as long as the catchment area reflects
:46:39. > :46:42.the city and does not try to grab people from miles away because we
:46:43. > :46:52.need to educate Bristol children within Bristol. Places are growing.
:46:53. > :46:56.I am not against Steiner schools, I support one of them in the private
:46:57. > :47:01.sector and I have asked them before now to come into the state sector.
:47:02. > :47:06.That would be an entirely different matter. The problem is with the way
:47:07. > :47:10.things have been played out. We have both in the city of Gloucester and
:47:11. > :47:15.Cheltenham the need for additional schooling yet we are getting a new
:47:16. > :47:20.school potentially in Stroud. It is daft, education planning at its
:47:21. > :47:24.worst. Let's build schools where we have got the need for them and
:47:25. > :47:28.rebuild some of the good relationships that there have been
:47:29. > :47:37.in Stroud and sadly, I think, have been damaged by this. I do not think
:47:38. > :47:43.children notice, the mind about the teacher they have got, the mind
:47:44. > :47:47.about the place, the education I think it is right there is some
:47:48. > :47:53.choice in types of education, that is usually a pavement choice rather
:47:54. > :48:02.than a child's choice. Different schools learn off of each other ``
:48:03. > :48:07.eight parents choice. We are on a fast improving curve and I am
:48:08. > :48:14.delighted about that. Thank you Now, with interest rates bumping
:48:15. > :48:17.along at rock bottom it has been an interesting time for people with
:48:18. > :48:24.money to save, more of us have been turning to ethical schemes which
:48:25. > :48:34.allow you to invest money in local schemes but do they take up jobs one
:48:35. > :48:40.stunned by the local authority? 1926, a royal visit to Bristol to
:48:41. > :48:44.open a landmark building, built on the proceeds of the tobacco
:48:45. > :48:50.industry. The city has benefited from many benefactors over the
:48:51. > :48:56.years. The family left their mark on this city. Another rich man who has
:48:57. > :49:05.left his mark on the city is Edward Colston. This city was built by a
:49:06. > :49:11.colliery owner. Bristol has a long history of philanthropy and more of
:49:12. > :49:15.us are now for giving. 22 million adults give money to local
:49:16. > :49:22.projects, over half would give more if it was easier to give and they
:49:23. > :49:26.could see the benefits. This part of Bristol has seen a huge amount of
:49:27. > :49:32.regeneration over the years, the bulk has been paid for by
:49:33. > :49:40.entrepreneurial businessmen. Now ordinarily resident to be able to
:49:41. > :49:44.shape the city's future. The Bristol born and would see ordinarily
:49:45. > :49:49.resident given the chance to invest their money and projects across the
:49:50. > :49:54.city. As yet there are no detailed plans of which schemes would benefit
:49:55. > :49:59.or how much money needs to be raised but those who do invest could get a
:50:00. > :50:05.4% return. This harbour`side regeneration was led by one man who
:50:06. > :50:09.grew up around here and wanted to give something back. He is one of
:50:10. > :50:15.those pushing the idea of the Bristol born. Mr and Mrs Joe Public
:50:16. > :50:20.putting in ?10 a month and expecting to get it back after an amount of
:50:21. > :50:26.time but the real value is knowing they are contributing to a piece of
:50:27. > :50:32.the jigsaw in Bristol. Another new housing scheme goes up but this has
:50:33. > :50:37.been funded by the state, money that is in short supply. For more homes
:50:38. > :50:43.to be built in a city we are ER badly needed, it could be born be
:50:44. > :50:48.the answer? It could bring forward housing for people who do not
:50:49. > :50:52.qualify for social housing. The waiting list is so huge now that
:50:53. > :50:59.there is a large section of the population who will never get a
:51:00. > :51:04.council house. The Bristol Mayor at his budget slashed last week and is
:51:05. > :51:08.backing the scheme. It could benefit the social fabric of the city,
:51:09. > :51:14.whether housing or provision for young people or the old, whatever it
:51:15. > :51:24.may be, and bring some return in the process. Not everyone is supportive.
:51:25. > :51:29.The real crisis in the city is at two services. 800 full`time jobs
:51:30. > :51:35.will go at the council. The devastation this will mean is for
:51:36. > :51:39.users of the council. I do not think issues of bonds in any shape or form
:51:40. > :51:48.will make up for the devastation that is going to happen. These were
:51:49. > :51:53.paid for by rich benefactors, centuries later Bristol still has a
:51:54. > :51:58.chronic need for affordable homes. Could the Bristol born be the answer
:51:59. > :52:05.to building more homes? Good view and I'd be able to leave our mark on
:52:06. > :52:09.the city? To discuss this new age of generosity is the Chief Executive of
:52:10. > :52:17.the Quartet community foundation which gives money to good causes. Is
:52:18. > :52:20.this the golden age of getting? I am not sure about that but there is
:52:21. > :52:26.evidence to suggest that during times of a steady more people do
:52:27. > :52:31.give. Research we have looked into suggests significant proportions of
:52:32. > :52:37.the population are already giving. People are very keen to give locally
:52:38. > :52:42.and see the impact of their giving. Do they get a warm blog or do they
:52:43. > :52:50.just want to see return for their money? There is a whole variety
:52:51. > :52:54.Some people like to invest to get a return on their money, others are
:52:55. > :53:00.happy to give to get that warm glow of getting. Some want to give
:53:01. > :53:04.anonymously and some become very actively involved in the
:53:05. > :53:09.organisations they give to. It is about catering for a whole range of
:53:10. > :53:14.opportunities. Essentially we have a very generous population who
:53:15. > :53:23.actually see that some people have and some people do not. Actually, we
:53:24. > :53:26.can all do something. Bristol is a very rich city, lots of money
:53:27. > :53:33.sloshing about, we could do with benefactors, do people seem to be
:53:34. > :53:41.coming forward in their droves? I think that was a different age. They
:53:42. > :53:45.did give enormously and sometimes it was conscience getting, what the
:53:46. > :53:53.Bristol born and is aiming to do is invest. `` Bond. You are putting
:53:54. > :53:58.your money into something that is worthwhile for Bristol. It is a
:53:59. > :54:02.social impact bond but has a small return, you are not throwing money
:54:03. > :54:09.away, you are investing in a very good cause. I think you can invest
:54:10. > :54:16.in certain areas, certainly in terms of Homs, in dealing with rough
:54:17. > :54:23.sleeping, whatever it might be, it has to be appealing to the people of
:54:24. > :54:28.Bristol. `` homes. There are some very poor people in Bristol. We
:54:29. > :54:36.should use that gap in a way that appeals. Asking people to dig deep,
:54:37. > :54:40.even with a little bit of a return, is it right to do that to take over
:54:41. > :54:47.perhaps what the authority should be doing in the first place? I think
:54:48. > :54:51.people are quite resentful, whether appearing teacher Association is
:54:52. > :54:56.trying to bail out their school or helping the NHS, people are worried
:54:57. > :55:00.about that. The community foundation in Gloucestershire I was once the
:55:01. > :55:05.member of, that is a different scale. The only problem is, if you
:55:06. > :55:08.think you are investing any bond and you are going to get your money
:55:09. > :55:18.back, you might be sadly disillusioned. Who are these people
:55:19. > :55:23.coming forward and giving? We have a whole range of people, individuals,
:55:24. > :55:27.families, organisations, all sorts of people who see that if you have a
:55:28. > :55:33.strong community in the place you live and work, that benefits
:55:34. > :55:38.everybody. To a certain extent they are doing it because they want the
:55:39. > :55:45.Bristol or Greater Bristol area to be a better place to be. They see
:55:46. > :55:50.that opportunity. How do we judge the success of something like the
:55:51. > :55:58.bond? Tell Michael by the success of the project that come out of it It
:55:59. > :56:04.might be social housing, then you have got a bond that is due to buy
:56:05. > :56:09.the problem. Then you might have charitable giving that helps with
:56:10. > :56:13.the running of that property. You can both mix the investment with
:56:14. > :56:20.charitable giving and then you probably get the best of both
:56:21. > :56:26.worlds. With the tariff be far too high for the skyline? I am not be in
:56:27. > :56:32.against high buildings. Isn't it wonderful that if you go up Park
:56:33. > :56:38.Street it is fantastic. It was the first view that attracted me to
:56:39. > :56:45.Bristol. Let's look back at the political week just gone by in our
:56:46. > :56:49.62nd round up. The petition calling for tougher sentences for dangerous
:56:50. > :56:58.drivers was returned to Downing Street. It was handed in by the
:56:59. > :57:03.family of the rest will family `` a Bristol couple who were run down
:57:04. > :57:15.while cycling by a driver who had taken cocaine. And action on female
:57:16. > :57:21.genital mutilation. I just felt so relieved and thankful that he was
:57:22. > :57:26.willing to meet others face to face. The Bishop of Bath and Wells will no
:57:27. > :57:30.longer live in his own palace, a rule that they should have more
:57:31. > :57:37.privacy by living in a house close by. The Mayor of Bristol made a
:57:38. > :57:42.generous offer to Standard Life the Scottish bank says it would move
:57:43. > :57:47.south if Scotland votes for independence, he has offered to find
:57:48. > :58:02.them a home in Bristol. Let's pick up on that campaign about female
:58:03. > :58:08.genital mutilations, it was quite a major feat by someone so young. It
:58:09. > :58:18.is absolutely appalling, I take my hat off to them, I am so proud of
:58:19. > :58:25.them, Bristol is taking a huge part in this movement. It is a topic some
:58:26. > :58:29.are afraid to touch. The media have found it quite difficult. This group
:58:30. > :58:36.broke through because they have been soaked up front, honest and open
:58:37. > :58:41.about it. Even in the community is concerned people were not talking
:58:42. > :58:46.about it. Some of the girls did not even know themselves what the threat
:58:47. > :58:49.was. I'd macro it is an indication that ordinarily young people can
:58:50. > :58:56.take their campaign to government and get something done. I really
:58:57. > :59:00.think she is a wonderful example of how a young person properly engaged
:59:01. > :59:06.in the political process can make a difference. Female genital
:59:07. > :59:12.mutilation is an outrage. We have to tackle it at a global level which is
:59:13. > :59:17.rare attitudes have to change. It is all very well Michael Gove saying we
:59:18. > :59:24.have to speak out in schools but something has to be done. It is now
:59:25. > :59:29.happening at the world level, thank you Moon is backing the campaign. It
:59:30. > :59:35.is out there and I think the difference will be made. That is it
:59:36. > :59:38.for today. Thank you to my guests for being on the show. We will be
:59:39. > :59:43.back with you next Sunday. From Government to change it. Thank you
:59:44. > :59:51.both for being here. Andrew, back to you.
:59:52. > :59:58.This week grant Shap said he wanted to rebrand the Tories as the
:59:59. > :00:03.workers' party to show it can reach out to blue-collar workers. One
:00:04. > :00:10.Conservative Party MP said they should scrap what he said was their
:00:11. > :00:14.boring old logo. We asked him and two other independent MPs how they'd
:00:15. > :00:27.freshen up their logos. Aspiration's always been our core
:00:28. > :00:32.value. About helping people get on with life. Giving people ladders of
:00:33. > :00:36.opportunity. That's why our symbol must reflect our values of
:00:37. > :00:44.aspiration and why I'm calling for our symbol to be changed from a tree
:00:45. > :00:47.to a ladder which symbolises social mobility and stands up for
:00:48. > :00:53.everything conservatism represents. I like an he will fanned, an animal
:00:54. > :01:00.that never forgets. We're the only party which seems to remember what
:01:01. > :01:04.life was like before the NHS and minimum wage and the global
:01:05. > :01:08.financial crash was caused by too little regulation not too much. We
:01:09. > :01:15.have a leader who can spot the elephant in the room, the lack of
:01:16. > :01:21.women on the Tory frontbench. The republicans in America have had the
:01:22. > :01:25.same idea. Theirs is a suspicious blue. Our would be deepest red. We
:01:26. > :01:31.love our Liberal Democrat bird. Mrs Thatcher called it the dead parrot
:01:32. > :01:35.when we launched it. We won the Eastbourne by-election off the
:01:36. > :01:40.Tories very soon aftered with. Perhaps it feels like we're in a
:01:41. > :01:45.coalition cage but we're escaping that soon. Why does it fly to the
:01:46. > :01:52.right? Most Liberal Democrats would want it to fly to the left. I hope
:01:53. > :01:57.it will soon. Interesting there. Let's stick with
:01:58. > :02:03.the Robert Hall pin one. He was being serious. The others were fun.
:02:04. > :02:09.It is interesting that talking about appealing to the blue collared vote,
:02:10. > :02:14.the upper working class, lower middle class, curiously now neither
:02:15. > :02:19.Mr Cameron nor Mr Miliband has great cut through with these people. But
:02:20. > :02:28.in wanting to be the Workers Party, how do you square that with choosing
:02:29. > :02:33.five old Etonians to draw up four next manifesto. Labour said one of
:02:34. > :02:37.the things was cutting inheritance tax, after all their priorities they
:02:38. > :02:42.went to privilege rather than earned income. Rebranding is not enough.
:02:43. > :02:46.The one question the modernisers never asked themselves when they
:02:47. > :02:52.took party ten years ago is the thing we know as the Conservative
:02:53. > :02:56.Party, salvageable as a brand? I'm beginning to think it isn't. If you
:02:57. > :03:01.look at all public opinion research, there are lots of people in this
:03:02. > :03:07.contrary with Conservative views. They won't vote Tory or contemplate
:03:08. > :03:14.the possibility of voting Tory. Can we get over the electoral problems
:03:15. > :03:20.by relaunching as a different pro-business, pro-worker party. That
:03:21. > :03:26.means new name, new logo. It will mean new people as well. If you say
:03:27. > :03:29.you're on the sides of what Thatcher called the strivers, the people
:03:30. > :03:33.themselves want to see you have strivers in the people who run your
:03:34. > :03:39.party so you know what we've been through, the struggles we've had.
:03:40. > :03:44.How many of the six drawing up the manifesto have had ever a mortgage.
:03:45. > :03:49.The one who's not an old Etonian went to St Paul's. He's a day
:03:50. > :03:54.schoolboy! It is interesting and it was funny you mentioned an elephant.
:03:55. > :03:59.Don't think of an elephant as the title of that book. Calling it the
:04:00. > :04:03.Workers Party draws attention to the Tories biggest electoral weakness.
:04:04. > :04:08.The idea they are a class apart Out of touch. I think it is interesting,
:04:09. > :04:17.they have identified their elections are won or lost by this particular
:04:18. > :04:22.demo graphic of the C 1, and C . Mrs Thatcher got them by the shed
:04:23. > :04:27.load, Tony Blair got them. His failure in 2010 is the reason David
:04:28. > :04:33.Cameron didn't win an overall majority. I'm disappointed with the
:04:34. > :04:37.ladder. You should have a hammer or sickle! The Conservatives have a
:04:38. > :04:41.terrible brand problem. You heard them explaining why they did badly
:04:42. > :04:46.in the Wythenshawe by-election, saying there's quite a large council
:04:47. > :04:51.estate there In 1961, I think the Conservatives won a by-election back
:04:52. > :04:55.then, they were getting through to those sort of voters. There is not a
:04:56. > :04:59.single Conservative councillor in Manchester. They have this terrible
:05:00. > :05:06.problem. You're right for them to pick up on the five Etonians writing
:05:07. > :05:14.their manifesto. David Cameron sir rounding himself with his own. He
:05:15. > :05:22.doesn't have to do that. I seas things like isn't Robert Halpen
:05:23. > :05:27.great. He decides and has his own. He has some more slightly common
:05:28. > :05:30.people from St Paul's! One of the ways the Conservatives hoped to
:05:31. > :05:37.broaden their appeal is the tougher line on immigration. We learned net
:05:38. > :05:44.immigration is rising substantially. Back up over 200,000. Nigel Farage
:05:45. > :05:49.of UKIP wrapped up the rhetoric In scores of our cities and market
:05:50. > :05:59.towns, this country, in a short space of time, has become N'Zonzi
:06:00. > :06:03.rkable whether it is -- unrecognisable. Whether it is the
:06:04. > :06:10.impact on local schools and hospitals. In many parts of England
:06:11. > :06:14.you don't hear English spoken, this is not the kind of the community we
:06:15. > :06:20.want to leave to our children and grandchildren. Helen, maybe people,
:06:21. > :06:29.I assume, will love the sentiments. Others will say, this is getting...
:06:30. > :06:36.It is going down a dangerous road. Nigel Farage's wife is German and he
:06:37. > :06:41.shares a flat with Godfully Bloom, nobody knows what he's saying half
:06:42. > :06:51.of the time. You can handle the letters from Yorkshire. Alex Salmond
:06:52. > :06:58.does not make his case on Scotland for the Scottish. Let's put aside
:06:59. > :07:05.whether the policy's right or wrong. How bad, by the Tories own lights,
:07:06. > :07:12.is the fact the net figure for immigration went up 60,000? It looks
:07:13. > :07:17.really bad. If I was a Tory strategist, I'd be philosophical
:07:18. > :07:21.about it. Immigration, even if they were meeting the target, I don't
:07:22. > :07:26.think the public would believe it. It is like crime a few years ago,
:07:27. > :07:31.the crime rates had been declining for the best part of 20 years but
:07:32. > :07:37.the fear of crime remains high. There's such a degree of cynicism
:07:38. > :07:40.that regardless of your administrative record in Government,
:07:41. > :07:46.the public will remain hostile to you. This is where Nigel Farage can
:07:47. > :07:51.be potent. He said it is not about numbers. It is about community. It
:07:52. > :07:57.is about people seeing their communities change. And in the
:07:58. > :08:02.Sunday Telegraph, it was said this isn't a dog whistle, a it is a meaty
:08:03. > :08:06.bone for a bull terrier. The problem for the Government on these figures
:08:07. > :08:11.is we know why the net migration figures are not looking good. They
:08:12. > :08:16.got down the non-EU figures but the EU figures are going up. From Italy
:08:17. > :08:22.and Spain as their economies tanked, people came here. If he hadn't made
:08:23. > :08:26.such a big deal of the numbers, the Tories, I mean, you could present
:08:27. > :08:29.this as a huge success story. If you believe immigration was good for the
:08:30. > :08:34.country. You would say it doesn t matter what Labour says, the best
:08:35. > :08:38.and the brightest young people from all over Europe are voting with
:08:39. > :08:43.their feet to come to Britain. But you never hear that case being made
:08:44. > :08:46.and certainly not by Labour. They acknowledge although immigration is
:08:47. > :08:50.best in the abstract for the economy, people don't feel it in
:08:51. > :08:54.their daily lives. There's a huge vacuum for the case where
:08:55. > :09:00.immigration should be in our public life. I remember a time when the
:09:01. > :09:05.economy was in such decline there was a rush to the door in the
:09:06. > :09:08.sixties and seventies. Now we are claiming our economy's doing better
:09:09. > :09:14.than any of the other major economies bar Germany, people want
:09:15. > :09:18.to join in our success. London was a declining city until the
:09:19. > :09:26.mid-eighties. Theresa May cannot be honest. She was proposing a cap on
:09:27. > :09:30.immigration. Not going to happen. Today she is saying maybe people
:09:31. > :09:35.from poorer member states cannot come in until their economies grow.
:09:36. > :09:39.That's future accession states. That's Turkey in ten years' time It
:09:40. > :09:44.is causing divisions with the coalition. She's bashing Vince
:09:45. > :09:50.Cable. You often see Liberal Democrats bashing the Tories. You
:09:51. > :09:53.don't often see a Tory minister bash Vince Cable. She does on the
:09:54. > :09:57.immigration figures. He thought they were good news. Last week, Vince
:09:58. > :10:02.responded to the news by saying it was a policy he was happy for the
:10:03. > :10:07.gift to flunk. The problem was going for a cap. There are six moving
:10:08. > :10:14.parts. UK citizens leaving, coming back. EU citizens leaving and coming
:10:15. > :10:21.back and then third party nationals. And students coming to study. Of
:10:22. > :10:30.course. You only have control over the EU citizens. Have you to clamp
:10:31. > :10:35.down on ace strayian, Chinese or American graduates. They should have
:10:36. > :10:43.gone for the Australian points system. I don't have a pure cap on
:10:44. > :10:50.numbers just background etc. Tim Farran said in the European election
:10:51. > :10:53.either vogue Liberal Democrat or UKIP. He turned that to his
:10:54. > :10:59.advantage. It is hopeful but he s come up with a way to spin this
:11:00. > :11:09.Labour has his special conference. Was it or was it not an event? Not
:11:10. > :11:14.sure it was the biggest moment in the party since 1918. But things
:11:15. > :11:20.fell apart in the special conference in 1981. 2004 got another special
:11:21. > :11:24.conference. Who's on board? David Owen who founded the gang of four.
:11:25. > :11:28.He's not joined but he's given them money. He's not going to sit with
:11:29. > :11:35.them in the Lord's. He's given money. They lost the gang of four.
:11:36. > :11:41.Back comes David Owen. Not historic? Why would he want it to be more
:11:42. > :11:45.significant than it was. There's a tendency to see him taking the fight
:11:46. > :11:51.to his party. Why would he want that? The fact it has not pleased
:11:52. > :12:03.Grant Shapps is not a test to see whether this has worked. It has been
:12:04. > :12:09.described as an historic moment and incremental of what John did. The
:12:10. > :12:17.trade union block voters disappeared a long time ago. They still have 50%
:12:18. > :12:22.of the vote. But 2,000 of union members voting for this guy has
:12:23. > :12:27.gone. It is a reform from 20 years ago. Welcome but not historic. Ed
:12:28. > :12:33.Miliband's stored up trouble. Len McCluskey wants a million new homes
:12:34. > :12:37.and answered to the benefit caps is not reconcilable with the deficit
:12:38. > :12:41.reduction strategy. In five years' time if there is a Labour Government
:12:42. > :12:47.it becomes very difficult. We should keep an eye on it? Always. Labour
:12:48. > :12:53.Party process is never ending. Unlike this programme. That's all
:12:54. > :12:57.from us today. Continuing reports of events in the Ukraine on the BBC
:12:58. > :13:03.News Channel. There's no Daily Politics tomorrow because of cover
:13:04. > :13:08.Arg of the Nelson Mandela memorial service at Westminster Abbey on BBC
:13:09. > :13:14.Two live. We'll be back on the Daily Politics on Tuesday at midday. We'll
:13:15. > :13:19.be back here next week with the Work and Pensions Secretary, Ian Smith.
:13:20. > :13:37.If it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.