:00:37. > :00:42.David Cameron slaps down two of his most senior Cabinet ministers
:00:43. > :00:47.over their public row about Islamist extremism in schools.
:00:48. > :00:53.And it?s HER special advisor that has to resign.
:00:54. > :00:57.We'll talk to the Shadow Education Secretary live
:00:58. > :01:00.Should this man become the next President of the EU Commission?
:01:01. > :01:03.David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping Luxembourg Federalist
:01:04. > :01:14.But could the arch europhile yet get the top job?
:01:15. > :01:16.Here's to the quarter of a million votes.
:01:17. > :01:20.And we'll find out why this political party is celebrating with
:01:21. > :01:26.a pint down the pub and how their success may have cost UKIP two MEPs.
:01:27. > :01:28.In the West: Fancy building your own homd?
:01:29. > :01:31.Attempts to double the numbdrs that do it themselves are falling short.
:01:32. > :01:34.We'll discuss why with the nation's favourite grand designer,
:01:35. > :01:42.Has Boris Johnson deserted the suburbs and become a zone one man?
:01:43. > :01:46.And with me our panel of top political journalists,
:01:47. > :01:48.who are always squabbling among themselves, Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee
:01:49. > :01:51.and Janan Ganesh, who will be tweeting throughout the programme
:01:52. > :01:56.This morning's political news is dominated
:01:57. > :01:58.by the very public fall-out of Home Secretary Theresa May and
:01:59. > :02:02.The high viz blue on blue spat between two senior
:02:03. > :02:05.Conservatives centred around the Government's approach to tackling
:02:06. > :02:11.The row burst into the open ahead of the publication tomorrow of
:02:12. > :02:16.investigations into the so-called Trojan Horse plot in Birmingham
:02:17. > :02:19.where it is alleged several state schools have been covertly taken
:02:20. > :02:25.Mr Gove told The Times last week he was concerned that the Home Office
:02:26. > :02:28.was unwilling to tackle extremism at its roots.
:02:29. > :02:32.He said a robust response was needed to drain the swamp.
:02:33. > :02:34.In response, Mrs May's special advisor tweeted,
:02:35. > :02:37."why is the Department for Education wanting to blame other people
:02:38. > :02:44.Lord knows what more they have overlooked on the subject of the
:02:45. > :02:51.An angry David Cameron ordered a speedy inquiry.
:02:52. > :02:54.Last night, Mr Gove apologised to the Prime Minister, while Ms May's
:02:55. > :02:59.Speaking on the BBC earlier this morning
:03:00. > :03:04.this is what Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had to say.
:03:05. > :03:07.There's been a disciplinary matter within the Government,
:03:08. > :03:10.which the Prime Minister has dealt with in a very firm, clear way.
:03:11. > :03:12.There will be discipline in the Government.
:03:13. > :03:17.The main thing is the issue itself - tackling extremism in schools.
:03:18. > :03:23.The Government will be very clear, very robust about anything that s
:03:24. > :03:42.put children at risk - risk to their safety or learning.
:03:43. > :03:52.Let's look at the positive of this. Theresa May 's people of saying she
:03:53. > :03:59.has come off worse in theirs. Yelena Kushi is no more guilty than Michael
:04:00. > :04:07.Gove he was guilty of indiscretion. She is no more guilty. Even during
:04:08. > :04:12.13 years of new Labour 's psychodrama, I cannot remember an
:04:13. > :04:23.act of hostility quite as naked as direct as publishing on a website
:04:24. > :04:26.and intergovernmental letter. It suggests quite a lot of
:04:27. > :04:31.conservatives do not think they will win next time. Why would there be a
:04:32. > :04:38.leadership spat going on like this unless they thought there was a
:04:39. > :04:42.vacancy? Inside the Cabinet, Theresa May is getting quite a bashing. In
:04:43. > :04:49.the Sunday Times, someone has reported she is the date from hell.
:04:50. > :04:54.She sidles up to people and is nakedly ambitious. I think that is
:04:55. > :04:59.interesting. On the whole, nobody will understand the finesse
:05:00. > :05:04.differences of opinion. It is not serious, it is not serious, it is
:05:05. > :05:09.tactical. It'll be puzzling for most people and will probably fizzle out.
:05:10. > :05:15.Has the Prime Minister slapped it down or will it rumble on? On the
:05:16. > :05:21.politics of it, it will not fizzle out. What you have is Theresa May is
:05:22. > :05:26.deadly serious about replacing David Cameron, not dislodging him but
:05:27. > :05:30.replacing him if there is a vacancy. Michael Gove is deadly serious in
:05:31. > :05:35.ensuring George Osborne succeeds David Cameron. It will be that
:05:36. > :05:39.ongoing political rivalry. What is really interesting about this is the
:05:40. > :05:44.Prime Minister is absolutely fed up with both of them. He is fed up with
:05:45. > :05:49.Michael Gove full-size gearing of message. He had the row with Nick
:05:50. > :05:55.Clegg and he had a row with Theresa May. He named Charles Barr and
:05:56. > :06:03.criticised him in a lunch with the times. White brother he is the
:06:04. > :06:13.Security adviser at the Home Office. -- he is the security advisor. He is
:06:14. > :06:17.fed up with Theresa May for mounting an unannounced leader bid. What
:06:18. > :06:25.separates Theresa May from Michael Gove on dealing with extremism? The
:06:26. > :06:28.view from Michael Gove is that it shows no interest in Islamic
:06:29. > :06:34.extremism until it manifests in violent form. Theresa May is
:06:35. > :06:39.criticised for rolling back the programme which the previous Labour
:06:40. > :06:44.government introduced to do with the previous Labour government
:06:45. > :06:50.introduced to do with the Home Office has been made by other people
:06:51. > :06:55.and made when the Home Office was not run by Theresa May but previous
:06:56. > :06:57.home secretaries, even dating back to the Conservative government in
:06:58. > :07:02.the 1990s. It is about the laxity of the Government. Michael Gove has
:07:03. > :07:08.used extraordinary inflammatory language talking about draining the
:07:09. > :07:12.swamp. I think Theresa May 's view is you can very easily inflamed
:07:13. > :07:19.those emotions and create many more extremists the process. Michael Gove
:07:20. > :07:23.would say that his approach is entirely consistent with the speech
:07:24. > :07:26.the Prime Minister made to the Munich Security conference in 2 11
:07:27. > :07:28.when the Prime Minister talked about how extremists
:07:29. > :07:45.warp the grape great religion of Islam. The Birmingham school system
:07:46. > :07:51.is going to be one of the most reported systems in Europe.
:07:52. > :07:53.Joining me now from Kent is Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt.
:07:54. > :08:03.Should parents of Birmingham children be worried that some of
:08:04. > :08:09.their schools are in the grip of an Islamist takeover? I think parents
:08:10. > :08:11.in Birmingham schools will be very disappointed by the political
:08:12. > :08:15.infighting going on in the Government. The briefings, the
:08:16. > :08:21.resignations, the apologies. The real apology that Michael Gove needs
:08:22. > :08:26.to deliver it to the pupil -- the pupils and parents of Birmingham.
:08:27. > :08:30.There was a potential threat of radicalisation. He fell to act for
:08:31. > :08:34.four years. The Labour Party is asking, when did he know the fact
:08:35. > :08:39.that radicalisation could have been taking place? What has been going on
:08:40. > :08:44.for the last four years? What we in the Labour Party want to see if much
:08:45. > :08:47.stronger systems of local oversight and accountability to situations
:08:48. > :08:52.like this do not arise again. Is there, in your view, if some of the
:08:53. > :09:02.Birmingham schools, an Islamist takeover? What we have seen in the
:09:03. > :09:06.leaked Ofsted report so far is fears about cultural isolation and an
:09:07. > :09:11.overconcentration on Islamic teaching within the curriculum. We
:09:12. > :09:16.want young people to celebrate their cultural identity, celebrate
:09:17. > :09:20.themselves as Muslims. We also want them to have an education which
:09:21. > :09:25.makes them succeed in multicultural 21st-century Birmingham. We want to
:09:26. > :09:31.be quite tough on moves towards gender segregation, a restricted
:09:32. > :09:36.curriculum. Birmingham is a multicultural city. We need an
:09:37. > :09:41.education system which celebrates that. What is wrong with gender
:09:42. > :09:48.segregation? You went to an all boys school. Where you have gender
:09:49. > :09:54.segregation, we have had a long tradition in Catholic schooling
:09:55. > :09:59.Where you have a state education system, which is about gender
:10:00. > :10:03.equality between boys and girls and there is an unofficial policy of
:10:04. > :10:07.gender segregation, that is unacceptable. We should not be
:10:08. > :10:13.tarring communities with the same brush in terms of radicalisation. We
:10:14. > :10:20.do want to see a successful, multicultural education. Two years
:10:21. > :10:24.ago, Ofsted rated Parkview as outstanding. Now it looks like
:10:25. > :10:31.tomorrow it is going into special measures. What is it up to? I do
:10:32. > :10:36.think there is an issue for Ofsted that you can go from outstanding to
:10:37. > :10:41.inadequate so quickly. That is why we are asking for a new criteria to
:10:42. > :10:47.be introduced to look at a broad and balanced curriculum. We have healthy
:10:48. > :10:51.sex and relationship education. There is a real issue this morning
:10:52. > :10:54.as the BBC has been reporting on the night for the Department of
:10:55. > :10:58.Education. We are hearing that some of those involved in the schools
:10:59. > :11:02.were not allowed to open a free school on security grounds. They
:11:03. > :11:07.were allowed to allow one of the schools to be taken over as an
:11:08. > :11:10.academy. We have a lack of oversight and accountability in schools within
:11:11. > :11:14.Birmingham. What the Labour Party wants is a local director of school
:11:15. > :11:24.standards to make sure we challenge underperformance and make sure we
:11:25. > :11:31.get in confronting Islamic extremism when it was in power? I was speaking
:11:32. > :11:35.to Hazel blears and she was very clear about the prevent programme
:11:36. > :11:43.which they rolled out when in office. A very atomised and
:11:44. > :11:52.fragmented school system where every school is looked at from behind a
:11:53. > :11:57.desk in Whitehall and he put that together and you do have an
:11:58. > :12:09.increased risk of chances of radicalisation. You have attacked Mr
:12:10. > :12:18.Gove for gross negligence. Was it the same -- you attacked Mr Gove for
:12:19. > :12:23.gross negligence. We are dealing with a government which has been in
:12:24. > :12:26.since 2010. The Government needs to hold the executive to account. We
:12:27. > :12:35.note the Department Michael Gove was warned by a senior and respected
:12:36. > :12:42.head teacher about fears over radicalism. What did he know and
:12:43. > :12:44.what did he act upon? We are hearing more reports of conversations about
:12:45. > :12:49.fears, about radicalisation, taking over some of the governing bodies of
:12:50. > :12:56.schools. We need to know what ministers did. Let me continue. You
:12:57. > :13:04.mention the capital to prevent strategy. Was it gross negligence
:13:05. > :13:08.for Labour to regularly consult a man who once headed a group
:13:09. > :13:14.dedicated to making Britain an Islamic state and wrote a book about
:13:15. > :13:19.schools full of Taliban style decrees. I think the events in
:13:20. > :13:25.Birmingham are enormously significant. About the nature of
:13:26. > :13:29.multiculturalism, the nature of education, the role of civic
:13:30. > :13:33.education, the role of faith schools. I will say to you this
:13:34. > :13:37.morning that Birmingham City Council, Ofsted, the Labour Party,
:13:38. > :13:48.the Department for Education were all involved in this conversation.
:13:49. > :13:51.In 2010, ministers were warned about potential radicalisation of schools
:13:52. > :13:57.and they fell to act. We need to know why, for years on, they allowed
:13:58. > :14:02.this situation to exacerbate. When you look at the record of labour and
:14:03. > :14:07.this government 's record, there are plenty of examples where both of you
:14:08. > :14:10.fail to act. Would it not be better to drop the party politics and get
:14:11. > :14:18.together to confront this problem for the sake of the children? There
:14:19. > :14:23.are a number of reports going on in Birmingham. Some are led by the city
:14:24. > :14:27.council, some by the Department for Education. Labour MPs this morning
:14:28. > :14:32.have come forward with the Bishop of Birmingham talking about faith in
:14:33. > :14:36.schools. If you have a minister failing to do their job, if you have
:14:37. > :14:40.a minister being given warnings in 2010 and failing to act on them for
:14:41. > :14:43.four years, the opposition has a role to hold the executive to
:14:44. > :14:49.account. This is about the safety and standards of teaching for pupils
:14:50. > :14:52.in Birmingham schools. It is about a great education for these young
:14:53. > :14:58.people so they can succeed in a modern, multicultural Britain. Do
:14:59. > :15:04.you agree with your Shadow Cabinet colleague, Rachel Reeves, that
:15:05. > :15:12.Labour' as core voters are abandoning the party? She was
:15:13. > :15:16.building on what Ed said the day after the elections in Berwick. We
:15:17. > :15:19.have to make sure those communities who we historically represent regard
:15:20. > :15:24.Labour as having a successful message for them. I am passionate
:15:25. > :15:28.about making sure we have great vocational and technical education,
:15:29. > :15:36.the great academic education in our schools. If we have more work to do
:15:37. > :15:38.to get people to the polling booths, we must do that. We must
:15:39. > :15:47.with listen to what she says. David Cameron has staked a lot on
:15:48. > :15:51.stopping the former PM of Luxembourg - named by one newspaper as 'the
:15:52. > :15:54.most dangerous man in Europe' because of his federalist views -
:15:55. > :15:56.from becoming the next president Mr Cameron has reportedly described
:15:57. > :16:04.Jean Claude Juncker as a 'face from the 80s who cannot solve the
:16:05. > :16:07.problems of the next five years . But with the German Chancellor
:16:08. > :16:09.Angela Merkel publicly backing Mr Juncker, it's not a dead cert that
:16:10. > :16:12.Mr Cameron can stop his appointment. This is what he had to say at the G7
:16:13. > :16:22.summit earlier this week: It is important that we have people
:16:23. > :16:27.running the institutions of Europe who understand the need for change
:16:28. > :16:32.and reform. I would argue that view is widely shared amongst other heads
:16:33. > :16:36.of government and heads of state in the European Union. I am clear what
:16:37. > :16:41.I want to achieve for Britain's future, to secure Britain's placed
:16:42. > :16:44.in a reformed European Union and I have a strategy for delivering
:16:45. > :16:47.that, a strategy for dealing with an issue which I think if we walk away
:16:48. > :16:49.from it would see Britain drift towards the exits.
:16:50. > :16:53.We've been joined from Berlin by the German MEP Elmar Brok who is
:16:54. > :16:56.a senior figure in the EPP - that's the party backing Mr Juncker.
:16:57. > :17:01.He's also Chairman of the Union of European Federalists.
:17:02. > :17:04.And in our Newcastle newsroom is the former Conservative MEP Martin
:17:05. > :17:07.Callanan who until last month led the European Conservatives
:17:08. > :17:16.and Reformists group in Brussels. Welcome to you both.
:17:17. > :17:24.The United Kingdom, Sweden, Hungary, they don't want Mr Junker, the new
:17:25. > :17:31.Italian Prime Minister doesn't look keen either, should he bow out
:17:32. > :17:37.gracefully? First of all, he wants to have Mr Junker but he wants to
:17:38. > :17:43.have his conditions. Will he become president of the European Council, a
:17:44. > :17:48.high representative? It is a discussion to be had in the next
:17:49. > :17:53.three or four weeks until the European Parliament can elect the
:17:54. > :17:58.president of the European Council after the proposal of the European
:17:59. > :18:03.Council, which has to be done after consultation with the Parliament in
:18:04. > :18:11.the light of the European elections and by a majority vote. If not Mr
:18:12. > :18:14.Junker, then who? There are many available candidates, I am not going
:18:15. > :18:22.to mention them in front of someone so esteemed as Elmar Brok. Give us
:18:23. > :18:27.one name that you would prefer? The prime Minister of Sweden, Christine
:18:28. > :18:34.Lagarde, the minister from Lithuania, these are people who have
:18:35. > :18:40.a record of old reform. Junker is the ultimate Europe insider. We need
:18:41. > :18:45.radical inform. We need to respond to the message the electorate gave
:18:46. > :18:51.us in the elections -- radical reform. Junker said he had to lie in
:18:52. > :18:54.public, he allowed the security services to conduct a dirty tricks
:18:55. > :19:00.campaign against his opponent. This is not who we want leading the
:19:01. > :19:02.European Commission. Elmar Brok since the European voters have sent
:19:03. > :19:07.a message to the parliament that they are not happy with the status
:19:08. > :19:13.quo, why would you want a man who is synonymous with the status quo?
:19:14. > :19:24.First of all what Martin has said is wrong. He has not done tricks
:19:25. > :19:30.against his opponents. He was very clear on that. He is also the man
:19:31. > :19:35.who was always for changes. He made dramatic changes as head of the Euro
:19:36. > :19:39.group, came out of the economic crisis which was a result of the
:19:40. > :19:43.financial crisis, made politics possible, to stop this incredible
:19:44. > :19:48.financial sector influence of our states. I believe he is a man who
:19:49. > :19:52.works on the programme which Mrs Merkel and others have decided in
:19:53. > :19:57.Dublin, for the reform of the European Union, less government But
:19:58. > :20:01.we need Europe more and he is not a man from the 80s. He is a man of
:20:02. > :20:05.this century and in this century he made his own policy. He is the
:20:06. > :20:09.winner of the European elections, he has a majority will stop Mrs
:20:10. > :20:15.LANguard is not running because she knows she will not get the majority
:20:16. > :20:21.in the European Parliament. -- Christine Lagarde is not running. It
:20:22. > :20:29.is the Council of minister is that decides. No, the European Parliament
:20:30. > :20:32.has the final word. The European Council can make a proposal by
:20:33. > :20:34.majority in the light of the European elections after
:20:35. > :20:38.consultation with the European Parliament. The council cannot get a
:20:39. > :20:46.candidate against the will of the European Parliament. Mr Junker has a
:20:47. > :20:49.majority in the European Parliament. Theoretically he is right, the
:20:50. > :20:52.Parliament has do vote on the candidates proposed by the council.
:20:53. > :20:58.I want to challenge the view that somehow he won the European
:20:59. > :21:02.elections. There is no provision for Jean Claude Junker to stand in the
:21:03. > :21:05.elections. He is saying that the EEP party got the most number of seats
:21:06. > :21:10.in the Parliament but none of the electorate knew they were taking
:21:11. > :21:12.part in this election. How many people who voted Labour in the
:21:13. > :21:17.United Kingdom realised that their vote would count towards a German
:21:18. > :21:24.socialist to be a candidate for the commission of presidency is a
:21:25. > :21:28.nonsensical proposal. The elections were 28 individual elections with
:21:29. > :21:31.hundreds of parties across Europe. To try to claim there is a
:21:32. > :21:33.democratic mandate for somebody nobody has heard from Luxembourg to
:21:34. > :21:51.take over the commission is a nonsense. People should know him, if
:21:52. > :21:55.I should say that ironically. Newspapers talking about members of
:21:56. > :22:04.the family of his wife with Nazi links... What is the answer to
:22:05. > :22:07.Martin Callinan's point? I think it is clear that British Conservatives
:22:08. > :22:11.have no candidate because they are not a broad European family, they
:22:12. > :22:16.have not impacted on the selection of top candidates but it is a form
:22:17. > :22:22.of isolation of the British Tory Party. The Prime Minister said if Mr
:22:23. > :22:26.Junker is appointed it could lead to Britain drifting towards the EU
:22:27. > :22:32.exit, is that credible? Is it melodramatic? It is true that we
:22:33. > :22:35.want to renegotiate the relationship. We want some serious
:22:36. > :22:40.reform in Europe so the people who vote in a referendum will be able to
:22:41. > :22:46.vote to stay in if that is what they want. We need a bold reformer,
:22:47. > :22:52.somebody prepared to engage. That is not anti the interests of the UK. We
:22:53. > :22:55.need to recognise there is a problem with public perception of the
:22:56. > :22:57.European Union. Elmar Brok is proud to be one of the last bastions of
:22:58. > :23:02.federalism that that is not where most of the public opinion is in
:23:03. > :23:08.Europe. I understand why he wants his man installed but we need to
:23:09. > :23:13.take into account the message of the letter -- the electorate. 25% of the
:23:14. > :23:19.publishing of France were prepared to vote for an openly racist party.
:23:20. > :23:26.We can't just ignore the signal that the electorate were sending us. If
:23:27. > :23:29.enthusiasm for federalism was at an all-time low, it would be a slap in
:23:30. > :23:37.the face for the voters of Europe to have a federalist as the president,
:23:38. > :23:41.would it not? 70, 80% of the members of the European Parliament, selected
:23:42. > :23:45.by their people, are pro-Europeans. These are the winners of the
:23:46. > :23:49.European elections. Even in France, a majority of voters have voted
:23:50. > :23:53.pro-European and that should be clear, not to make this a populist
:23:54. > :24:05.thing which is not only to do with Europe. And we want to have a Europe
:24:06. > :24:10.which is strong, the member states should do their things. We do not
:24:11. > :24:15.want to have a European centralism, we do not want a European state
:24:16. > :24:18.This is not at stake. Let's talk about the question of better
:24:19. > :24:23.governance, let's talk about what was wrong in the past, we have to
:24:24. > :24:27.become better, to change our programme in that question. That
:24:28. > :24:35.should be the way we lead to come to positive results. Thank you for
:24:36. > :24:37.that. Before we go, there is a British commissioner that needs to
:24:38. > :24:43.be appointed to Brussels, do you like the sound of that? These are
:24:44. > :24:48.matters for the Prime Minister, I am sure he has many excellent
:24:49. > :24:57.candidates. Do you like the sound of it? Like previous British
:24:58. > :25:01.commissioners, Chris Patten, Neil clinic, I have just lost an election
:25:02. > :25:06.-- Neil Kinnock for the everybody who is asked would serve, I'm sure.
:25:07. > :25:09.Just days ago UKIP were celebrating topping the poll in the European
:25:10. > :25:16.They're claiming they'd have had two more MEPs
:25:17. > :25:19.and the Greens two fewer had another party not confused the electorate.
:25:20. > :25:21.What's more UKIP say it's the fault of the body
:25:22. > :25:24.which was set up to oversee elections - the Electoral Commission
:25:25. > :25:37.This is a party celebrating success at the European elections. They
:25:38. > :25:44.didn't win a single MEP but nationally polled 250,000 votes
:25:45. > :25:47.They are an independence from Europe, mostly people who were once
:25:48. > :26:06.in UKIP, and that is rather the point. They may look like capers,
:26:07. > :26:14.drink like capers, sound like capers -- -- sound like kippers, but they
:26:15. > :26:18.are not. The name and the logo were displayed on this banner when the
:26:19. > :26:23.party launched its campaign. UKIP suggest the look, the wording and
:26:24. > :26:29.the inclusion of UK in now confused voters, and are looking at rewriting
:26:30. > :26:32.such a wrong. The way that seats are allocated in a European election
:26:33. > :26:38.under a proportional representation system is using this formula. It was
:26:39. > :26:45.invented by a Belgian mathematician in 1878 and it is essentially this.
:26:46. > :26:50.When all of the votes have been tallied up, the one with the most
:26:51. > :26:53.seats gets the first MEPC in a region. The others are allocated
:26:54. > :27:02.using votes cast divided by the number of seats gained plus one --
:27:03. > :27:07.first MEP seat in a region. UKIP were concerned with South West and
:27:08. > :27:12.London. There they say, when the last MEP seats were being allocated,
:27:13. > :27:15.if everyone who had voted for an independence from Europe had meant
:27:16. > :27:20.to vote for UKIP and you tallied their votes up, and added them to
:27:21. > :27:27.UKIP, UKIP would have been up one in each region and the greens would
:27:28. > :27:30.have lost them. Whether you can prove that voters did that by
:27:31. > :27:38.mistake is a very different matter. UKIP may have to just chalk it up to
:27:39. > :27:42.experience. It has happened before, back in the European elections of
:27:43. > :27:48.1994. Then in England under the first past the post system. This
:27:49. > :27:51.man, Richard Huggett, decided to stand as a little Democrat and
:27:52. > :27:57.polled a significant number of votes. The Liberal Democrat
:27:58. > :28:04.candidate at the time is now an MP. Many people voted and afterwards
:28:05. > :28:08.realised that they had bubbly voted for -- probably voted for a little
:28:09. > :28:15.Democrat, not a Liberal Democrat as they had been intending to do -
:28:16. > :28:23.bubbly voted for a literal Democrat -- probably voted.
:28:24. > :28:31.Mr Sanders got some consolation In 1998, laws came into rule on
:28:32. > :28:34.so-called spoiler tactics and the Electoral Commission was
:28:35. > :28:36.established. The Electoral Commission are based on the seventh
:28:37. > :28:40.floor of this building and they did look into this issue prior to
:28:41. > :28:43.voting. They have given us a statement that reveals the
:28:44. > :28:47.conclusion they came to, part of which says, we decided that the name
:28:48. > :28:53.of the party, and its description are sufficiently different to those
:28:54. > :28:58.registered by the UK Independence Party, UKIP, to mean, in our
:28:59. > :29:01.opinion, that voters were not likely to be confused if they appeared on
:29:02. > :29:08.the same ballot paper. Pretty conclusive stuff. Back at the pub,
:29:09. > :29:13.were an independence from Europe just being crafty, or do UKIP need
:29:14. > :29:18.to wake up and smell the flowers? We attack them in all areas. An
:29:19. > :29:22.independent study for Anglo Netherlands because I was involved
:29:23. > :29:27.in the Dutch -- with the Dutch member of Parliament and the
:29:28. > :29:32.description was UK Independence now, nobody has a monopoly on the word
:29:33. > :29:38.independence. I have been fighting for independence since I started in
:29:39. > :29:41.1994, before I joined UKIP. The party tell me they will stand again
:29:42. > :29:48.at the general election next year. The ironies not lost on them or the
:29:49. > :29:49.major parties of UKIP complaining that a smaller party has been taking
:29:50. > :29:59.votes of them. Joining me now to discuss
:30:00. > :30:02.this story is Gawain Towler. He's the UKIP candidate for the
:30:03. > :30:05.South West region, who failed to get And in our Bristol studios is
:30:06. > :30:21.the victorious Green MEP for How many of the 23,000 votes that
:30:22. > :30:26.were cast for the Independence party were meant for you? Impossible to
:30:27. > :30:31.tell. I want to congratulate Molly for getting elected. They are the
:30:32. > :30:39.breaks. I do not think there is a purpose in complaining about boats
:30:40. > :30:46.that are cast. Do you think you would have one otherwise? Yes, I do.
:30:47. > :30:49.You have to look at the would have one otherwise? Yes, I do.
:30:50. > :30:53.You have to look boats for parties people have not heard of and those
:30:54. > :30:59.with a long tradition that people have heard of. I do not think there
:31:00. > :31:05.is any doubt. If you saw the spoiled ballot papers, the amount of people
:31:06. > :31:12.who had voted at the top and the bottom, most people are not anoraks,
:31:13. > :31:26.they say, they are the people I want. They know what they are after.
:31:27. > :31:34.I think it is at least told. It is said you owe your seat to And
:31:35. > :31:39.Independence Party. It is strange for a man to say he could represent
:31:40. > :31:45.people in the south-west better than me. There has been outpouring of
:31:46. > :31:52.delight that a Green MP has finally been elected. A number of people
:31:53. > :31:55.have been saying they have been voting all their lives and it is the
:31:56. > :32:01.first time they have elected anybody. I am glad to represent them
:32:02. > :32:07.in a significant legislature. What would you say to that? I find it
:32:08. > :32:14.strange. I am perfectly happy for her to be elected. I feel the
:32:15. > :32:21.electoral commission has questions to answer. But, congratulations to
:32:22. > :32:24.Molly. Why do you want an extra seat for the Greens in the European
:32:25. > :32:31.Parliament but your national share of the vote actually fell. We did
:32:32. > :32:35.come under pressure nationally. If he is complaining about the role the
:32:36. > :32:40.election commission said we could stand, the rule we were not happy
:32:41. > :32:44.with was the off, ruling which said we were not a main party. We got
:32:45. > :32:52.significantly less media time and that is why our belt actually fell.
:32:53. > :33:00.Not on the Daily Politics or the Sunday Politics, where you were well
:33:01. > :33:08.represented. Was it a problem for UKIP in other parts of the country?
:33:09. > :33:21.Only in London. What do you think happened there? Very much the same.
:33:22. > :33:24.I do not think there is any doubt, the number of people we have had
:33:25. > :33:30.getting in touch saying, I am really sorry, I made a mess, that they
:33:31. > :33:35.voted for the wrong party. They are the breaks. Politics is politics.
:33:36. > :33:42.What I would like to see and what is reasonable, and I hope Molly would
:33:43. > :33:47.agree, there needs to be a reform - a serious reform of the Electoral
:33:48. > :33:51.Commission. There is no appeal process. They say it is not
:33:52. > :33:58.confusing. Lets see if she thinks that. I make it a policy never to
:33:59. > :34:02.agree with UKIP. What is important to note, if you look at the votes
:34:03. > :34:07.and the way the votes fell out and the seats fell out in the
:34:08. > :34:11.south-west, it is difficult for an Electoral Commission to turn boats
:34:12. > :34:17.into seats. UKIP got 33% of the vote and 33% of the seats. For them, the
:34:18. > :34:23.system worked very well in the south-west. Nationally, Greens did
:34:24. > :34:28.not get represented as the vote share would require. That is because
:34:29. > :34:32.you get very small number of seats in the different regions and you
:34:33. > :34:36.have to reach a high threshold. The Green Party has a right to complain
:34:37. > :34:39.about the level of seats we have ended up with. White rapper you have
:34:40. > :34:46.complaints about the Electoral Commission? We need to move to a
:34:47. > :34:53.proportional system for elections generally. If we poll around 7% 8%,
:34:54. > :34:58.we should be looking at having 0, 40 seats in the national
:34:59. > :35:00.legislature. We need to consider proportional representation for
:35:01. > :35:06.national elections. Do you accept the ballot paper may have confused
:35:07. > :35:11.some people? I think what happened is that some people in UKIP were
:35:12. > :35:16.very worried. Worried about the rightward move of UKIP and the
:35:17. > :35:22.authoritarian leadership of Nigel Farage. He set up a separate party.
:35:23. > :35:29.That is what happens in politics, particularly when parties are led by
:35:30. > :35:37.demagogues and are not focused on Democratic policy. Do you have any
:35:38. > :35:45.legal redress to this? None whatsoever. Have you had legal
:35:46. > :35:50.advice? I am told there is no redress. We do feel, I am sure Molly
:35:51. > :35:55.does not agree with UKIP on anything so, if we say the sun rises in the
:35:56. > :36:02.morning, she probably will disagree with that. If, at the next election,
:36:03. > :36:10.there is a party called the Grown Party, will she then complain? There
:36:11. > :36:16.needs to be some level of accountability and, without that,
:36:17. > :36:19.one wonders what is going on. We have an organisation with enormous
:36:20. > :36:26.and important power and influence which is setup to stop this of thing
:36:27. > :36:30.going on. It has failed. Not has it has failed. Not present served in
:36:31. > :36:34.Tower Hamlets and there have been massive problems with postal votes.
:36:35. > :36:41.It is failing on almost everything it is supposed to do. Just to go
:36:42. > :36:45.back for a final point from Molly. Should there be a right of appeal to
:36:46. > :36:48.the rulings of the Electoral Commission? You need to have an
:36:49. > :36:53.authoritative body that makes decisions in this area and we have
:36:54. > :36:59.the Electoral Commission. It is about being sore losers on the part
:37:00. > :37:05.of UKIP. I am delighted to represent people in the South West. Should
:37:06. > :37:08.there be a right of appeal or not? You need an authoritative body and
:37:09. > :37:09.the Electoral Commission is that. I do not think it should have a right
:37:10. > :37:12.to appeal. We say goodbye to viewers
:37:13. > :37:17.in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 20 minutes,
:37:18. > :37:31.we'll be discussing extremism Welcome to the part of the show just
:37:32. > :37:36.for us here in the West Country Coming up, we'll be talking
:37:37. > :37:39.about building a dream home with The Government is urging more
:37:40. > :37:44.of us to reach for the hammdr and drill as it tries to tackle
:37:45. > :37:46.the housing shortage. But new figures suggest we `re much
:37:47. > :37:50.happier watching others havd a go Here to talk bricks and mortar
:37:51. > :37:55.and more besides is the Labour leader for Bristol City
:37:56. > :37:58.Council, Helen Holland. We're also joined by the
:37:59. > :38:02.Liberal Democrat, Steve Bradley Steve, this week, the Queen reopened
:38:03. > :38:05.Parliament and we heard somd Is the Coalition actually scraping
:38:06. > :38:12.the bottom of the barrel? This is something which Nick Clegg
:38:13. > :38:17.first announced in September 20 2, it is a real environmental coup for
:38:18. > :38:19.this government, for the Liberal Democrats
:38:20. > :38:21.in government. 7 billion plastic bags are tsed
:38:22. > :38:24.in this country every year. A huge waste of resources,
:38:25. > :38:30.found in every side road It is surprising that it is
:38:31. > :38:35.at the top of the agenda. It is not at the top of the agenda,
:38:36. > :38:39.it is on the agenda. I'm pleased with the
:38:40. > :38:41.Liberal Democrats in Governlent What did you make of
:38:42. > :38:45.the Queen's speech? Most people watching it would not
:38:46. > :38:49.think that a lot of the things that
:38:50. > :38:51.they are concerned about ` the house prices
:38:52. > :38:53.we will talk about later, there is nothing there
:38:54. > :38:57.to address those things. Although I am supportive
:38:58. > :39:01.of the plastic bag issue, it is just Do you think people will
:39:02. > :39:07.mind forking out 5p? They might mind
:39:08. > :39:13.but the experience is that ht works. That is good news for the fhnanciers
:39:14. > :39:19.handing out ever`bigger homd loans. Bad news for many,
:39:20. > :39:22.especially those of us tried get The situation is especially
:39:23. > :39:27.chronic here in the West. The supply of homes is completely
:39:28. > :39:30.outstripped by demand. A one`bedroom flat with two
:39:31. > :39:37.occupants, soon to be three. Becky and James are having
:39:38. > :39:42.a baby, so need something bhgger. First`time buyers with decent jobs,
:39:43. > :39:44.they wanted a two`bed terrace I suppose we were shocked.
:39:45. > :39:57.Very shocked! There have been some
:39:58. > :40:01.stressful times. Emotional. Frustration that we felt we were
:40:02. > :40:09.in a decent position, Even humble houses go
:40:10. > :40:14.for more than they can afford. One mortgage provider reckons
:40:15. > :40:17.that in the last year prices Affordability is a big problem
:40:18. > :40:22.in the West. The average house prices ard already
:40:23. > :40:25.11 times greater than In Bath and North East Somerset
:40:26. > :40:31.and Dorset, it is worse, at 14, while the most unaffordable place is
:40:32. > :40:34.the Cotswolds, Every council
:40:35. > :40:39.in the West is worried. In Bath, they are finalising
:40:40. > :40:42.a long`term plan, setting ott Nobody wants a shortage of houses
:40:43. > :40:52.but the area that we have in Bath, bearing in mind Bath is one
:40:53. > :40:56.of the only World Heritage cities available, we also have the
:40:57. > :41:00.Cotswolds area of natural bdauty surrounding us, plus the Mendip area
:41:01. > :41:03.of outstanding natural beauty. We have very little
:41:04. > :41:06.developable land available. At the same time as news cale
:41:07. > :41:10.through the latest leap in property prices, European Commission weighed
:41:11. > :41:13.in with its annual report of It recommended the Government
:41:14. > :41:18.build more houses, reform council tax to raise more
:41:19. > :41:22.money from wealthy households and to That has helped the Bond falily
:41:23. > :41:31.of Taunton. They would otherwise have struggled
:41:32. > :41:34.to raise a big enough deposht We have two is children
:41:35. > :41:38.and we are looking for somewhere that we can grow into,
:41:39. > :41:42.a village location that meant we We found that house that ticked all
:41:43. > :41:50.those boxes and I would defhnitely say at this point we would not
:41:51. > :42:02.have been able to move into it There are worries it is helping to
:42:03. > :42:07.push up prices, which incre`ses That has brought this warning
:42:08. > :42:12.from the former head of This has been an imbalance hn the UK
:42:13. > :42:16.for many years. After the crisis in 2009, 2010,
:42:17. > :42:19.across the whole of the polhtical spectrum, there was a lot of talk
:42:20. > :42:23.about how we needed a more balanced economy, that wasn't dependdnt
:42:24. > :42:25.on a credit fuelled propertx boom. It is clear that we're getthng back
:42:26. > :42:30.to growth but at the core of that is Back in Bristol, Becky and James
:42:31. > :42:34.cannot get more credit so We have had to make some colpromises
:42:35. > :42:42.and go to a back`up plan. We're looking at instead
:42:43. > :42:46.of two`bedroom terrace housds with a garden,
:42:47. > :42:48.perhaps looking for a two`bddroom So soaring house prices mean leaving
:42:49. > :42:57.the area they love before I'm delighted to say we are joined
:42:58. > :43:03.by Kevin McCloud, who is a developer of sustahnable
:43:04. > :43:06.housing when he's not presenting Is the housing market
:43:07. > :43:14.spiralling out of control? Mark Carney of the Bank
:43:15. > :43:17.of England thinks it is. He thinks the next recession we re
:43:18. > :43:21.going to have will result again He lives in London, where the Bank
:43:22. > :43:26.of England is, and you see extraordinary things happenhng
:43:27. > :43:28.there. You see people from abroad buying,
:43:29. > :43:32.to keep not even to let, vast swathes of property, apartmdnts
:43:33. > :43:36.in the outlying suburbs of London They have risen about 10%
:43:37. > :43:43.in the last years against as If you go to the north`east, they
:43:44. > :43:53.have dropped by 7% in Middldsbrough. There is nowhere to buy che`p
:43:54. > :43:56.property in the south`west, You take a national average,
:43:57. > :44:01.the south`west almost represents exactly the national averagd, price,
:44:02. > :44:04.growth rate and so on. There was a report that said
:44:05. > :44:13.we need 300,000 homes The maximum we've built
:44:14. > :44:19.between then and now is 180,000 In this tiny country,
:44:20. > :44:24.which is now the most densely with a very strong planning regime,
:44:25. > :44:28.historically, and strong pl`nning But we ought to be looking, I
:44:29. > :44:40.believe and in our business we try hard to find sites which ard within
:44:41. > :44:45.towns and cities, because otr towns and cities of low density and could
:44:46. > :44:49.do with a lot more identification. We need to be looking at wh`t
:44:50. > :44:53.our village extensions should be. Where I live, near Frome,
:44:54. > :44:57.there are two local villages who are expecting to double in size
:44:58. > :45:00.in the next two years. Stephen, really, there are not
:45:01. > :45:05.enough houses being built. So people cannot buy
:45:06. > :45:10.and they cannot rent, it is There has been a long`standhng
:45:11. > :45:19.problem without property market In 2010, house new starts wdre at
:45:20. > :45:27.the lowest level since the 0920s. We had an erosion of the social
:45:28. > :45:30.social rented sector, we lost Across only two years
:45:31. > :45:34.of Labour's time in power dhd we The different elements were not
:45:35. > :45:43.being tackled then, the Liberal Democrats in
:45:44. > :45:45.government We have new builds,
:45:46. > :45:49.new starts at the highest ldvel Under Labour, 13 years in
:45:50. > :45:56.government, you were building 1 000 At the same time,
:45:57. > :46:02.allowing mass immigration. You don't have to be Einstehn to
:46:03. > :46:06.work out there will not be dnough I think everyone in the Labour Party
:46:07. > :46:11.at knowledges that not enough was done during the time
:46:12. > :46:15.in Government. The House building at the moment is
:46:16. > :46:18.the lowest since the 1920s `nd yet we have got those kind of pressures
:46:19. > :46:23.that we saw in the film on families. If you spoke to any councillors
:46:24. > :46:25.in Bristol, they would hear from people all the
:46:26. > :46:29.time about the real impact, families who have to live separately because
:46:30. > :46:32.they are living with their parents There is always local opposhtion
:46:33. > :46:38.to building a house. Modern houses look so drearx
:46:39. > :46:43.and they are little boxes. We object to change because
:46:44. > :46:52.change is rubbish, it is ustally It would be wonderful
:46:53. > :46:58.if we could build houses whhch were inspiring places, we could lake
:46:59. > :47:03.communities which are reallx great. The legislation has
:47:04. > :47:08.not allowed them to. One of the things we have in Bristol
:47:09. > :47:13.and I know the mayor has looked at it is that there are 6,000
:47:14. > :47:15.planning permissions The Labour Shadow Cabinet is
:47:16. > :47:22.looking at saying, really, developers ought to use it or lose
:47:23. > :47:25.it. There ought to be some recolpense
:47:26. > :47:33.so that we can make sure th`t developers do build those
:47:34. > :47:37.properties. Do you think getting tough
:47:38. > :47:39.will work? What she's talking
:47:40. > :47:46.about using or use it, it is looking at something xou are
:47:47. > :47:49.looking at as a Coalition? I think we need to do
:47:50. > :47:53.is to tackle supply issues not just across the buying sector
:47:54. > :48:00.but the renting sector. The Coalition government ard
:48:01. > :48:10.working hard to do that. It is fantastic we have got Kevin
:48:11. > :48:12.here today. He was appointed by the Coalition
:48:13. > :48:17.government, he is a champion for enabling people to build under
:48:18. > :48:22.the right circumstances. You might think that with tdlevision
:48:23. > :48:27.shows like Kevin's never far from our screens, we would be
:48:28. > :48:30.enthusiastic The latest statistics show the
:48:31. > :48:36.Government It needs twice as many
:48:37. > :48:43.of us to pick up our tools. Is your current home looking
:48:44. > :48:46.a little shabby? Or perhaps you want to wash
:48:47. > :48:55.your hands of that avocado suite. Well, the Government wants those
:48:56. > :48:58.thinking of moving to be inspired Tired of conventional homes, and
:48:59. > :49:04.with next to no DIY experience, he I had the choice of
:49:05. > :49:13.either buying a city centre flat This is a lot more interesthng
:49:14. > :49:18.and challenging and more rewarding It is taken two years in
:49:19. > :49:25.spite of holding down a full`time It is en vogue in France
:49:26. > :49:32.and Germany, where 50% But here, it seems,
:49:33. > :49:37.it is just not our cup of tda. The idea about building
:49:38. > :49:40.your own home, I think, is hgnited But the hurdles for it to h`ppen,
:49:41. > :49:46.I think, one, two or five years
:49:47. > :49:56.down the line, are then going out
:49:57. > :49:59.and buying an existing housd because land has not become available
:50:00. > :50:01.for them to do the project. Back when the Coalition was formed,
:50:02. > :50:05.the Government promised to double the number of self build holes being
:50:06. > :50:07.built within a decade. The number was just over 10,000
:50:08. > :50:13.in that year. However, last year, that figure
:50:14. > :50:17.had slumped to just over 8,000. So the self`build Revolution is
:50:18. > :50:23.yet to really raise the roof. Add this self build advice centre
:50:24. > :50:26.in Swindon, we hear many thdories I don't think
:50:27. > :50:33.the message has even begun xet. I still think that first`tile buyers
:50:34. > :50:37.and first`time movers have no concept that self build could be
:50:38. > :50:41.a solution for them. Self build could make housing much
:50:42. > :50:46.more affordable at those two crucial levels,
:50:47. > :50:48.first`time buyers, first`tile Because self build enables people to
:50:49. > :51:01.make a financial gain in thd value of their property instantly, as
:51:02. > :51:05.a reward for the effort thex put in. Communities of self build homes
:51:06. > :51:08.like this one in Bristol, The Government is now targeting
:51:09. > :51:12.its efforts on a halfway hotse. ?150 million has been found
:51:13. > :51:16.for custom`built homes, that is where you choose yotr home
:51:17. > :51:19.from a developer's catalogud But the lack of land remain is
:51:20. > :51:25.a fundamental problem. So we are certainly challenging
:51:26. > :51:28.everyone in the public sector to look at their land holdings
:51:29. > :51:31.and see what can be made av`ilable both for affordable housing and for
:51:32. > :51:35.customised and self build as well. We are thinking
:51:36. > :51:39.about introducing something which exists on the continent where
:51:40. > :51:43.a resident is able to say to the local authority, "I want to build
:51:44. > :51:47.my own home, but I need the land to At the moment,
:51:48. > :51:52.that doesn't exist in Britahn. But Labour says that
:51:53. > :51:55.doesn't go far enough. It would force land banking
:51:56. > :51:57.developers to use Politicians of all colours seem to
:51:58. > :52:03.be falling over themselves to appeal Hoping they, like Adam here,
:52:04. > :52:08.build homes to help ease But, for the time being, most
:52:09. > :52:13.of us seem quite content to watch stories like this one on fold in
:52:14. > :52:20.the comfort of our own armchairs. I wouldn't know where to st`rt
:52:21. > :52:25.building my own home and I think a lot of my fellow citizens fdel the
:52:26. > :52:27.same. There are around 4 million people
:52:28. > :52:35.in the UK who want to build their That is a huge number,
:52:36. > :52:39.that is a massive... They are not doing it because
:52:40. > :52:44.of many issues, land is a bhg one, the availability of land,
:52:45. > :52:47.or people sitting on their land The homes and communities
:52:48. > :52:57.agency, the Government arm for the disposal of government land
:52:58. > :53:00.has been instructed to sell land to make it available for self build
:53:01. > :53:03.and yet not much has happendd. Local authorities have been mandated
:53:04. > :53:06.in the National Planning Policy Framework to get out there
:53:07. > :53:09.and survey every community in the UK to find out who w`nts
:53:10. > :53:11.a self`build property. The trouble is,
:53:12. > :53:15.we watch your programme, which we absolutely love, btt every
:53:16. > :53:18.week it is a drama, isn't it? The build goes wrong,
:53:19. > :53:21.the architect is ridiculous. All these odd people
:53:22. > :53:25.and it is always, It's storytelling on television
:53:26. > :53:29.come on! In real life, the process c`n be
:53:30. > :53:33.de`risked, it can be de`strdssed. For heaven's sake, right now
:53:34. > :53:35.in Bristol, a self build agency are
:53:36. > :53:37.organising with ex`servicemdn, many of whom have been
:53:38. > :53:41.on the streets, without a home, who It is a process
:53:42. > :53:52.which can be really empowerhng, it can be enjoyable and if you hand's
:53:53. > :53:56.held with the developer and a good But you could lose everything,
:53:57. > :53:59.couldn't you? If you're working with
:54:00. > :54:02.a conventional house`builder and you're going the custom`built route,
:54:03. > :54:05.which is the route that manx people do, as in the film, you end up with
:54:06. > :54:10.a contract, home that has bden built for you to your taste and your
:54:11. > :54:14.design, it is a really uniqte place. We will see it, it will takd
:54:15. > :54:18.a while, we will see change. In terms of the community sdlf build
:54:19. > :54:22.and the ex`servicemen project, I have been to the first ond and I
:54:23. > :54:27.was at the presentation last time. They are small numbers
:54:28. > :54:31.but they are very specific `bout the needs and those are, it is not
:54:32. > :54:35.just providing people with ` home or with an address, which actu`lly
:54:36. > :54:38.means that you can then participate the skills they learn
:54:39. > :54:45.while they are building the home. Should councils be
:54:46. > :54:47.forced to provide land? Say I want to build my own house,
:54:48. > :54:51.should I be able to go to the council and say,
:54:52. > :54:54."Will you find me some land please?" One of the things the Coalition
:54:55. > :54:57.government is looking at is putting something into
:54:58. > :55:01.the national framework to insist on provision of sites for custom`built,
:55:02. > :55:05.I'd draw a distinction betwden The example in the video tape was
:55:06. > :55:10.of extreme DIY, the individtal Custom builders more
:55:11. > :55:13.about making the local... As Kevin alluded to, the holes and
:55:14. > :55:19.communities agency has been tasked We need to make sure within
:55:20. > :55:25.a Coalition government that they There is work that needs to be done
:55:26. > :55:30.around the availability of land We about to go into consult`tion as
:55:31. > :55:34.a government on the right to build, to look at whether we can, `s you
:55:35. > :55:38.suggested force councils to identify sites and say, "I want to btild
:55:39. > :55:42.a house that meets my needs and the "needs of my family
:55:43. > :55:45.and my community here," and we The localism act and everything
:55:46. > :55:52.about the National Planning Policy Framework tries to drive control
:55:53. > :55:54.back to communities. My business have been working
:55:55. > :55:58.in parts of Bristol, walking into communities and saying,
:55:59. > :56:00."what do you want? And from that point,
:56:01. > :56:05.starting to try and figure out how developers and local authorhties
:56:06. > :56:08.might deliver what committeds want Just give us a ballpark figtre
:56:09. > :56:13.if someone wanted to custom build It is likely to cost slightly
:56:14. > :56:19.less than buying it on spec. But
:56:20. > :56:21.the thing is you get better value. You get a
:56:22. > :56:24.better built house, you get a Green home that will cost less to run you
:56:25. > :56:28.will end up with perhaps solething much more tailored, a much greater
:56:29. > :56:31.value in the end, because it is better built and it is disthnctive
:56:32. > :56:35.and something which will brhng you I think in discussion about numbers
:56:36. > :56:46.and planning, we forget the value They do this in Germany and France,
:56:47. > :56:51.do you think this is a Brithsh I think, to repeat the commdnt
:56:52. > :56:56.about it, I think for specific areas there is a self
:56:57. > :56:59.build scheme that has been there It is because they weren't big
:57:00. > :57:05.enough houses for bigger falilies and so a group of big familhes who
:57:06. > :57:08.were on the council waiting list got together, work with the housing
:57:09. > :57:11.association and build that scheme. On the continent, people rent until
:57:12. > :57:16.they are in a position to bty their There was a project of 4,000
:57:17. > :57:23.homes just outside of Amsterdam There are the building
:57:24. > :57:28.groups of Berlin, 10,000 people have got involved in those groups now and
:57:29. > :57:32.although each country operates under completely different regimes and
:57:33. > :57:34.circumstances, in this country we have the potential and alre`dy
:57:35. > :57:38.across this region and in places like Bicester, we're seeing projects
:57:39. > :57:44.coming forward for 200, 500 homes. Thank you.
:57:45. > :57:53.Great pleasure to meet you. We live in a world
:57:54. > :58:06.of sound bites and tweets, so we decided to condense the West's
:58:07. > :58:09.political news into 60 seconds. Health campaigners have cause
:58:10. > :58:11.to celebrate after attempts to part privatise a North Somerset
:58:12. > :58:16.hospital were scrapped. Private firms have put
:58:17. > :58:19.in bids to manage Western Gdneral but it was decided that another
:58:20. > :58:22.NHS Trust should be showed chosen to This illegal camp
:58:23. > :58:29.on green belt land near Bath will be replaced with a permanent home
:58:30. > :58:31.for Gypsies and Travellers. Councillors voted through
:58:32. > :58:34.controversial plans to set tp 1 permanent pitches at a cost
:58:35. > :58:50.of around ?2 million. Parents from south Gloucestdr
:58:51. > :58:52.have launched a legal challdnge against the ban on taking children
:58:53. > :58:55.out of school during term thme. The group, parents want a s`y,
:58:56. > :58:58.are angry at the school fires being h`nded out
:58:59. > :59:01.to parents who break the rules. And
:59:02. > :59:04.a Bristol boy made good camd back to Sajid Javid is now the
:59:05. > :59:07.Culture Secretary but he was brought up in more humble
:59:08. > :59:11.surroundings above his family's Helen, I am told that in
:59:12. > :59:21.a former life you were a te`cher. What do you think
:59:22. > :59:25.about finding parents for t`king Well, there is no doubt the place
:59:26. > :59:31.our children ought to be ushng school in term time but I think it
:59:32. > :59:34.is a blunt instrument, isn't it Parents who can afford very
:59:35. > :59:36.expensive holidays, it is no problem to then to add
:59:37. > :59:40.on the cost of the fine. Unfortunately,
:59:41. > :59:42.there are holiday firms who are offering to pay the cost
:59:43. > :59:45.of the fine, which cannot bd right. Would you encourage someone or say
:59:46. > :59:56.to someone, "All right, I think that the people who are best
:59:57. > :00:03.placed to decide what is right for their particular childrdn are
:00:04. > :00:05.generally the parents. Obviously, there will be extreme is
:00:06. > :00:08.where that may not be the case that I would agree that we
:00:09. > :00:11.should not have blunt instrtments. I want parents to make the sensible,
:00:12. > :00:14.responsible decisions that `re And that is just about it
:00:15. > :00:20.from our Bristol studio this week. You can always catch up with
:00:21. > :00:22.this part of the show again. my guests. That is it for the Sunday
:00:23. > :00:35.Politics in London. Back to Andrew. Is enough being done to
:00:36. > :00:39.tackle extremism in schools? Will Mr Cameron stopped Mr Junker,
:00:40. > :01:09.will make we are joined by the founder of the
:01:10. > :01:13.Quilliam Association. If you read the Sunday Telegraph this morning,
:01:14. > :01:16.there is a real problem. If you read the Observer, there is not much of a
:01:17. > :01:35.problem. What is the situation in your view in Birmingham? Allegations
:01:36. > :01:39.are seen to be -- if music was not being taught as it should be.
:01:40. > :01:43.Instead of the rating the national holidays here during the Christmas
:01:44. > :01:46.period, children were sent off instead on religious pilgrimage to
:01:47. > :01:54.Mecca, then I think something is going on. From my knowledge, I know
:01:55. > :02:02.about some of the strategies to influence. These strategies are
:02:03. > :02:06.known as gradualism. The idea, like the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is
:02:07. > :02:16.to join the institutions of society and influence from within -- from
:02:17. > :02:19.within. It is a gradual approach to Islamicisation society. We have seen
:02:20. > :02:26.that happening in other areas, such as the decision by the Law Society
:02:27. > :02:31.to call it shy and issue it out as guidance for solicitors. They are
:02:32. > :02:40.saying this means that women inherit half of what men
:02:41. > :02:41.saying this means that women inherit and adopted children do not get any
:02:42. > :02:41.inheritance. Apostates do not get any inheritance. These are
:02:42. > :02:47.guidelines being issued by the Law Society by Islamic. It is a medieval
:02:48. > :02:55.take on Islam. That is what is meant. We see the same names popping
:02:56. > :03:03.up again and again in different situations in Birmingham. Is it a
:03:04. > :03:05.planned infiltration? In my profession of you and
:03:06. > :03:07.planned infiltration? In my profession of you having spent 3
:03:08. > :03:08.years on the leadership of an Islamist organisation, having been
:03:09. > :03:21.involved Islamist organisation, having been
:03:22. > :03:21.and setting up schools, I am very Islamist organisation, having been
:03:22. > :03:24.certain is a deliberate plan to influence the students of this
:03:25. > :03:27.country with a medieval interpretation of my own faith to
:03:28. > :03:32.bring about a medieval, conservative view, and enforce things like
:03:33. > :03:37.segregation on boys and girls within our public institutions. With these
:03:38. > :03:43.things be acceptable if they were explicitly they schools? If they
:03:44. > :03:49.were state. We had state Anglican faith schools. We have state
:03:50. > :03:55.Catholic faith schools as well. Would it be acceptable if these were
:03:56. > :04:01.state Islamic schools? That is a policy question. I am not generally
:04:02. > :04:07.in favour. I would believe in this establishment. I am not a fan of
:04:08. > :04:12.faith schools. I do think the solution is to ban them. I do think
:04:13. > :04:16.these schools should start working out with an engaging with the wider
:04:17. > :04:22.communities and not being insular and looking inwards. It is very
:04:23. > :04:26.important. The Ofsted report is coming out tomorrow. We have already
:04:27. > :04:32.had a taste about what it is saying about some of the schools. Is it a
:04:33. > :04:39.serious problem? It is a very serious problem. It comes from the
:04:40. > :04:42.segregation of children into intensely populated areas where
:04:43. > :04:46.everyone is Muslim virtually. You have to have a system of spreading
:04:47. > :04:50.children between schools. It very often happens, even with a secular
:04:51. > :04:54.school like this. Nearby Catholic or Church of England schools become
:04:55. > :04:59.like-for-like schools and that leaves the rest of the state schools
:05:00. > :05:03.to become all of one faith. I think all of the parties are being quite
:05:04. > :05:09.hypocritical about the profound problem of continuing to have faith
:05:10. > :05:12.schools. You have Orthodox Jewish schools with extraordinary dogma
:05:13. > :05:17.being taught. Indeed very strict Catholic schools with amazing dogma
:05:18. > :05:21.being taught. To somehow only get worried when it is Islamic, when it
:05:22. > :05:25.is Muslim schools, becomes a problem. You have to look at the
:05:26. > :05:29.whole issue and said the state should simply withdraw from the
:05:30. > :05:44.business of faith education. Like France? Yes, a secular school. The
:05:45. > :05:50.overall government policy is to take power away. The dilemma with that is
:05:51. > :05:53.that it comes with dangers. Some schools will be incompetent and some
:05:54. > :05:57.schools will be more than incompetent, they will be maligned
:05:58. > :06:02.in some respects. The one bit of this policy which has never been
:06:03. > :06:07.entirely squared is how do you devolve and retain a basic minimum
:06:08. > :06:10.of educational standards and behavioural standards while doing
:06:11. > :06:14.it? There is an even deeper quandary for Britain. We have prided
:06:15. > :06:18.ourselves on allowing radical views that stop short of violence. We took
:06:19. > :06:23.on Karl Marx and the rest of Europe would not have him. The rest of
:06:24. > :06:27.Europe could not believe how tolerably well of radical preachers
:06:28. > :06:34.in the 1990s. Do we stick with that view? The risks were greater than
:06:35. > :06:39.they were 100 years ago. We do expect, whatever peoples faith, that
:06:40. > :06:43.our children, at the expense of the taxpayer, are educated, not
:06:44. > :06:48.instructed, not indoctrinated, educated. We do expect that and also
:06:49. > :06:52.that boys and girls are treated equally. One of the things the board
:06:53. > :06:56.in Birmingham will be looking at which has Andrew Mitchell on it the
:06:57. > :06:59.former development Secretary, because he is a Birmingham MP full
:07:00. > :07:04.Sutton, they are really concerned about whether the girls are being
:07:05. > :07:10.treated as second-class citizens. There has been a lot of work done on
:07:11. > :07:14.empowerment of girls. Shirley Williams made the point that what
:07:15. > :07:17.Michael Gove has done by creating free schools and academies is
:07:18. > :07:20.undermined the work of local education authorities. They think
:07:21. > :07:27.they are traditional bodies which are not open to reform. One school
:07:28. > :07:35.in Birmingham which is accused of being in trouble is a local
:07:36. > :07:40.education school. They cannot have the other side. Under Michael Gove,
:07:41. > :07:44.they are answerable to the Secretary of State. It is down to Ofsted.
:07:45. > :07:49.Ofsted is giving the schools, not that long ago, outstanding marks.
:07:50. > :07:53.There are big questions about the oversight of schools. Tristan Hunt
:07:54. > :07:57.was trying to answer that point By tapping it cannot all have gone pear
:07:58. > :08:07.shaped in two years. How do you think that will play out? -- it
:08:08. > :08:11.cannot have gone pear shaped. The story was broken in February. It
:08:12. > :08:16.will keep playing out. The report that was due out Ofsted is tomorrow
:08:17. > :08:20.or Monday. Then there is the other report that will look into wider
:08:21. > :08:29.questions, that will come out in July, I think. We are expecting two
:08:30. > :08:33.points. -- reports. We have to look at questions of Ofsted and other
:08:34. > :08:37.institutions in our society, even government departments, where idea
:08:38. > :08:46.of taxing non-violent extremism became a too boot in this country.
:08:47. > :08:53.-- a taboo. They must be rebuffed the challenge, as we would expect
:08:54. > :08:59.racism to be challenged. In the argument between Michael Gove and
:09:00. > :09:03.Theresa May, where do you side? They should be challenged openly and
:09:04. > :09:07.robust leap by civilian society It was settled by the Prime Minister
:09:08. > :09:16.and is government policy. I had a hand in advising or consulting. I
:09:17. > :09:25.think Fiona Cunningham was forced to resign because what she did violates
:09:26. > :09:45.official government policy. It just has not been implemented yet. Will
:09:46. > :09:48.Mr Cameron succeed with Juncke? You'll agree he have to decide
:09:49. > :09:53.whether he will spirit at stopping him or accepting him as commission
:09:54. > :09:56.president and ask in return for a massive commission portfolio for
:09:57. > :10:00.Britain, something like the internal market, which they missed out on
:10:01. > :10:08.last time. It is a diplomatic decision he have to make. It is too
:10:09. > :10:14.late for that he is into deep. If he takes over the job, Cameron is left
:10:15. > :10:21.with egg on its face. From the beginning, he did not have his voice
:10:22. > :10:27.with the weight of the British Conservative Party, with ankle and
:10:28. > :10:32.Arkle, the rest of them. He is reaping -- Angela Merkel, the rest
:10:33. > :10:42.of them. He is reaping that reward. There is a lot of support within
:10:43. > :10:47.Europe. In Germany, there was a lot of opposition to David Cameron
:10:48. > :10:51.getting his way. I know him from Brussels. He is entertaining, you go
:10:52. > :10:55.to dinner with him and he smokes and drinks. He is entertaining but he is
:10:56. > :10:58.the most awful person you could think of having trying to sort of
:10:59. > :11:02.symbolise a new European Union. I remember I was there join the
:11:03. > :11:06.Luxembourg presidency in 2005 when the voters in France and the
:11:07. > :11:11.Netherlands voted no to the European constitution, what was his response
:11:12. > :11:19.to that? Let's carry on with the ratification process of this treaty
:11:20. > :11:22.that has been comprehensively rejected by voters. He did not say
:11:23. > :11:27.the final bit of that sentence. You can see why Eurosceptics want him.
:11:28. > :11:31.He has blown a raspy at all the people who have protested at the
:11:32. > :11:45.elections with the way the European Union is going. -- blown a Rasberry.
:11:46. > :11:58.This is your most popular... What has come in most recently is doing
:11:59. > :12:09.really well. This is yours. There we go. Cheers! By our people so
:12:10. > :12:17.cynical? They always go for a drink at 11am and they pull their own
:12:18. > :12:24.pipes. I see them every day. -- pts. Is there anything Mr Clegg can do is
:12:25. > :12:28.to mark the idea is to define clearly a liberal brand, or at least
:12:29. > :12:32.I hope it is. It is not good enough for us to say the Liberal Democrats
:12:33. > :12:36.challenge the Tories on this, on the fairer society, and challenge the
:12:37. > :12:40.Labour Party on a strong economy. We need to define what we stand for.
:12:41. > :12:46.That is what I call a liberal brand, assertive liberalism. I have been
:12:47. > :12:52.there myself and I think that is what he will be speaking about.
:12:53. > :12:57.Standing up for liberal values, to finding -- defining what they are.
:12:58. > :13:00.Disestablishment in getting younger people re-engage with politics. The
:13:01. > :13:07.overwhelming number are actually liberal. We only have about 20
:13:08. > :13:13.seconds. I suggest to you it is too late. Sign up with the one principle
:13:14. > :13:20.on which he stood is Europe. -- the one principle on which he stood if
:13:21. > :13:27.Europe. That is why he has been doing so badly. He cannot get out of
:13:28. > :13:29.the hole he is in. If you fight three general elections to the left
:13:30. > :13:43.of Labour and on the third when you are in coalition with the Tories,
:13:44. > :13:50.you have got a problem. I will be back next week. Remember if it is
:13:51. > :14:19.Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. What's the hardest thing
:14:20. > :14:21.about being a foster parent? You're constantly trying
:14:22. > :14:23.to build the elusive trust. It's like a big old question mark
:14:24. > :14:26.in your heart. I just try and do the best I can
:14:27. > :14:30.for them while they're with me