:00:35. > :00:41.Up to a million public sector workers will strike this week.
:00:42. > :00:44.It's one of the biggest walk-outs since 2010.
:00:45. > :00:46.The country's top trade unionist Frances O'Grady and
:00:47. > :00:51.Tory Business Minister Matt Hancock go head-to-head.
:00:52. > :00:55.The Tour de France seems to have cheered him up - just as well
:00:56. > :00:58.for the Deputy Prime Minister hasn't got much else to smile about.
:00:59. > :01:01.Nick Clegg joins me live from Sheffield to discuss the
:01:02. > :01:07.Just over ten weeks until Scotland determines its future.
:01:08. > :01:11.The man leading the campaign AGAINST independence, Alistair Darling,
:01:12. > :01:18.joins me from Edinburgh. In the West, selling your secrets.
:01:19. > :01:34.And with me throughout the show, three top-flight political
:01:35. > :01:38.journalists always ahead of the peleton - Nick Watt,
:01:39. > :01:52.They'll be tweeting faster than Tour de France cyclists can pedal.
:01:53. > :01:54.The news is dominated this morning by stories swirling
:01:55. > :01:57.around allegations of an historic Westminster paedophile ring.
:01:58. > :02:00.Concern has grown because of the disappearance of a dossier
:02:01. > :02:02.handed over to the Home Office in 1983, along with over 100 official
:02:03. > :02:04.files related to it and possibly containing details of historic child
:02:05. > :02:10.Labour is calling for a public inquiry led by a child protection
:02:11. > :02:15.But speaking earlier on The Andrew Marr Show this morning
:02:16. > :02:20.the Education Secretary Michael Gove ruled that out.
:02:21. > :02:26.The most important thing that we need to do is ensure that the due
:02:27. > :02:30.process of law pursues those who may be guilty of individual crimes and
:02:31. > :02:34.we also learn lessons about what may or may not have gone wrong in the
:02:35. > :02:37.past, but it is also important to emphasise that many of the
:02:38. > :02:42.allegations that are being made are historic. And what we do now in
:02:43. > :02:46.order to keep children safer is better and stronger than was the
:02:47. > :02:50.case when 20 or 30 years ago. Without getting into a boring
:02:51. > :02:55.tit-for-tat, public inquiry, "yes" or "no"? No. Helen, can the
:02:56. > :03:00.Government go on resisting calls for a full-scale inquiry? It is very
:03:01. > :03:03.hard. There are cynical and non-cynical reasons for calling for
:03:04. > :03:07.an inquiry. The cynical one allows you to say I can't comment on this.
:03:08. > :03:12.The non-cynical is it manages to get people to air allegations in a way
:03:13. > :03:16.that is safe. What we saw at the Leveson Inquiry was helpful, people
:03:17. > :03:20.who felt they had been shut out from justice getting a chance to tell
:03:21. > :03:23.their side of the story. A public inquiry in this case is a good idea.
:03:24. > :03:28.Labour have called for a lot of public inquiries. A list was made in
:03:29. > :03:34.2012 of how many they called for. Not only Savile, but the West Coast
:03:35. > :03:37.Main Line and breast implants. On this particular issue, the people
:03:38. > :03:40.don't trust the politicians, they don't trust the police either
:03:41. > :03:46.because they may have been complicit in a cover-up. They may not trust
:03:47. > :03:50.the Home Office who we are told some of their officials were mentioned in
:03:51. > :03:54.the dossier? That is what David Cameron is hanging on to. This is a
:03:55. > :03:57.matter now because they are alleged criminal activity, it is for the
:03:58. > :04:03.police to investigate. In that big piece in the Sunday Times, Tim
:04:04. > :04:04.Shipman reports one of the people making the allegations lives in the
:04:05. > :04:07.United States making the allegations lives in the
:04:08. > :04:10.been out to the United States to interview him. The Prime Minister
:04:11. > :04:10.would say that is how serious the police are taking it. The problem
:04:11. > :04:17.for the Prime Minister - he police are taking it. The problem
:04:18. > :04:21.allergic to big public inquiry. His finest moment was his response to
:04:22. > :04:21.the Bloody Sunday inquiry shortly after he became Prime
:04:22. > :04:35.inrequest -- that inquiry took 12 years to report. The problem is the
:04:36. > :04:41.dossier has gone missing, the files have gone missing, more allegations
:04:42. > :04:43.keep coming out either directly or indirectly. It doesn't look like it
:04:44. > :04:51.is going to go away? The fact the dossiers are missing means it is
:04:52. > :04:55.inappropriate for the Home Office to be investigating this. There is
:04:56. > :04:55.inappropriate for the Home Office to a police investigation. If after
:04:56. > :05:02.that, there are questions unanswered which can only be answered by
:05:03. > :05:03.that, there are questions unanswered public inquiry, or which require
:05:04. > :05:06.resources that can only be commanded by a public inquiry, I could see the
:05:07. > :05:12.case for going down that road. I fear that sometimes in this country
:05:13. > :05:16.we invest almost supernatural powers in what a public inquiry can do. I
:05:17. > :05:20.wonder whether there is another example of a country that goes
:05:21. > :05:24.through this stale ritual every few years of a scandal emerging, the
:05:25. > :05:27.opposition calling for an inquiry, the Government saying no and then
:05:28. > :05:31.holding the line or giving in. I don't know what we think this
:05:32. > :05:36.inquiries can do. It comes back to your point, Helen, you should be
:05:37. > :05:42.careful what you call an inquiry on so it doesn't devalue the concept.
:05:43. > :05:44.On Thursday up to a million public sector workers - including teachers,
:05:45. > :05:46.firemen and council workers - will go on strike.
:05:47. > :05:48.Their unions have differing gripes but the fact they're all striking
:05:49. > :05:51.on the same day is designed to send a strong message to the government.
:05:52. > :05:53.As the economy picks up again they're demanding an end
:05:54. > :05:59.Growth has returned strongly to the UK economy
:06:00. > :06:03.and unemployment is at its lowest level for more than five years.
:06:04. > :06:05.So why is there still talk of austerity
:06:06. > :06:10.The deficit is coming down but much more slowly than the government
:06:11. > :06:17.And accumulated deficits - the national debt -
:06:18. > :06:26.The UK is now in hock to the tune of ?1.3 trillion - and rising.
:06:27. > :06:30.In fact, we're only 40% of the way through George Osborne's planned
:06:31. > :06:32.austerity, with the chancellor now saying he won't manage to balance
:06:33. > :06:38.Unions are now rebelling against tight pay controls.
:06:39. > :06:42.Since 2010, average public sector pay, which goes to about 1 in 5
:06:43. > :06:50.Over the same period, prices increased by 16% -
:06:51. > :06:53.meaning the average public sector worker saw their pay squeezed
:06:54. > :07:01.Going head-to-head on the public sector strikes and austerity -
:07:02. > :07:04.the general secretary of the TUC Frances O'Grady, and Conservative
:07:05. > :07:23.We have seen it, public sector pay squeezed by 9% under the Coalition
:07:24. > :07:29.Government. Isn't it time to take your foot off the brake a bit? I
:07:30. > :07:34.don't think it is the right time to let go of the public finances at
:07:35. > :07:38.all. We were always clear that this is what's called a structural
:07:39. > :07:43.deficit, it doesn't go away just because the growth is returning and
:07:44. > :07:47.the economy is coming back. We have protected and are protecting the
:07:48. > :09:15.lowest paid public sector workers who
:09:16. > :09:20.lowest paid public sector workers many watching this programme, they
:09:21. > :09:27.have had a 1% pay rise in some cases since 2010. The average gas bill is
:09:28. > :09:33.up 57%, electric bill up 22%, food costs up 16%, running a car 11%, in
:09:34. > :09:38.what way have you protected people from spending they have to make?
:09:39. > :09:42.Firstly, you read out the average increases in public sector pay. That
:09:43. > :09:46.has had the biggest impact at the top end and those at the bottom end
:09:47. > :09:51.have been best protected, as best we could. Of course, we have also taken
:09:52. > :09:54.two million people out of income tax and increased the income tax
:09:55. > :09:58.threshold which has a big positive impact. We have frozen and then cut
:09:59. > :10:03.fuel duty, which would have been 20 pence higher. I wanted to take on
:10:04. > :10:07.this point about priorities. We have got to make sure that we get the
:10:08. > :10:13.economy going at the same time and we raised more money from those at
:10:14. > :10:18.the top than we did before 2010, partly because we have encouraged
:10:19. > :10:23.them to invest. And this is a really important balance of making sure we
:10:24. > :10:27.get the books back in order, we have stability for family finances and we
:10:28. > :10:31.get the economy going. Why not spread the living wage? We know you
:10:32. > :10:35.could pay for that pay increase itself if you spread the living wage
:10:36. > :10:41.through the private sector and guarantee... The living wage being
:10:42. > :10:47.above the minimum wage? Absolutely. ?7.65 in the rest of the country,
:10:48. > :10:56.?8.80 in London. What is the answer? I'm a fan of the minimum wage. But
:10:57. > :11:01.not for public sector workers. Being able to pay low-paid workers as much
:11:02. > :11:03.as possible within the constraints of the public finances is something
:11:04. > :11:08.I have pushed very hard. The evidence we can increase the minimum
:11:09. > :11:14.wage has to be balanced which the Low Pay Commission do with the
:11:15. > :11:21.impact on the number of jobs... Even after a pay freeze for quite a while
:11:22. > :11:28.among public sector workers, they are still paid 15% on average more
:11:29. > :11:34.than those in the private sector? That is not true. It is, according
:11:35. > :11:38.to the ONS figures. I read that report this morning. If you look at
:11:39. > :11:44.the whole package, what they are saying is public service workers are
:11:45. > :11:52.worse off. Average earnings in the public sector are ?16.28 an hour
:11:53. > :11:56.compared to ?14.16 private. You are comparing apples and pears. It's the
:11:57. > :12:00.kind of jobs and the size of the workplace that people work in. They
:12:01. > :12:06.are still overall on average better off? Lower paid workers tend to be
:12:07. > :12:15.better off because unions negotiate better deals for lower paid workers.
:12:16. > :12:19.They are more unionised in the pry private sector. The public sector is
:12:20. > :12:23.worse off. This is a political strike, isn't it? There is a whole
:12:24. > :12:26.disparate range of reasons. The strike is saying that you are
:12:27. > :12:31.against this Government, that is what this is about? I this I what
:12:32. > :12:35.firefighters, local government workers and health workers who are
:12:36. > :12:39.protesting, too, alongside teachers are saying is that this Government
:12:40. > :12:43.is not listening, it is out of touch, people can't carry on having
:12:44. > :12:48.cuts in their living standards depending on benefits. When will the
:12:49. > :12:51.public sector worker ever get a real increase in their pay under a
:12:52. > :12:58.Conservative Government? Well, we certainly hope to have the books
:12:59. > :13:03.balanced by 2018. Not before then? 2018 is when we hope to be able to
:13:04. > :13:11.be in surplus. It is testament... So, no real pay increase for public
:13:12. > :13:18.sector workers before 2018? Interestingly, this isn't just about
:13:19. > :13:21.the Conservatives and the Lib Dems, the Labour Party leadership have
:13:22. > :13:24.said it is a test of their credibility that they support the
:13:25. > :13:28.squeeze on public sector pay. I look forward to them, they ought to come
:13:29. > :13:31.out and say very clearly that these strikes are wrong and they are
:13:32. > :13:37.against the strikes and stop taking union money. It is a democratic
:13:38. > :13:41.right. Hold on. They are - they think the policy of pay restraint is
:13:42. > :13:49.necessary. Alright. On this point about democracy... Ask yourself why
:13:50. > :13:57.so many ordinary decent public service workers are so fed up. They
:13:58. > :14:06.have seen so many billions of pounds wasted through outsourcing to
:14:07. > :14:13.organisations like G4 S. In Unite and UNISON the turnout in this vote
:14:14. > :14:17.was under 20%. Alright. OK. One final question... Hold on. You said
:14:18. > :14:22.millions and millions voted on this... I want to ask you this
:14:23. > :14:27.question. Is the story in the Mail on Sunday today that Mr Cameron's
:14:28. > :14:33.planning a big crackdown on the unions over balloting, is that true?
:14:34. > :14:37.Well, strikes like this... I know the cases, is it true you are going
:14:38. > :14:40.to dhang the law? Strikes like this make that argument stronger. The
:14:41. > :14:45.Conservative Party is in Government on the basis of 23% of the
:14:46. > :14:49.electorate... We have run out of time. Thank you very much.
:14:50. > :14:52."Should Scotland be an independent country?"
:14:53. > :14:53.That's the question the people of Scotland will answer in a referendum
:14:54. > :14:57.If the polls are to be believed, the voters will answer "no".
:14:58. > :14:59.But in 2011 - ten weeks before the Holyrood elections - the polls
:15:00. > :15:02.told us that Labour was going to win and look what happened there - a
:15:03. > :15:07.Alistair Darling is leading the campaign against independnence.
:15:08. > :15:28.is one that puts the matter of independence to bed for a
:15:29. > :15:33.generation. In numerical terms, what would that be? We need a decisive
:15:34. > :15:37.result in September, I think we will get that provided we get our
:15:38. > :15:43.arguments across in the next couple of months. What would it be in
:15:44. > :15:49.figures? I am not going to put a number on it. People will look at it
:15:50. > :15:54.and say, OK, you have had two and a half years of debate and Scotland
:15:55. > :15:59.has now decided. The polls may be encouraging at the moment but I am
:16:00. > :16:04.not complacent, there is still a long way to go. Speculating... If
:16:05. > :16:09.you don't want to answer that, that is fair enough. Your side claims
:16:10. > :16:15.that a vote for independence is a vote for massive uncertainty but if
:16:16. > :16:19.it is a no vote there is lots of uncertainty too. All of the
:16:20. > :16:25.Westminster parties are promising devolution but there is no
:16:26. > :16:31.timetable, no certainty. Yes, there is. For the first time I can
:16:32. > :16:38.remember, all three parties are more or less on the same page in terms of
:16:39. > :16:43.additional powers, we already have powers in terms of policing and
:16:44. > :16:47.transport, now more powers are planned in relation to tax and
:16:48. > :16:54.welfare. But you are all saying different things. Between 2009 and
:16:55. > :16:58.2012, the three parties have slightly different proposals but
:16:59. > :17:03.they came together and there was an agreed series of reforms in relation
:17:04. > :17:11.to tax which are now on the statute book. If you go back to the
:17:12. > :17:15.devolutionary settlement in 1998, people unified around a single
:17:16. > :17:19.proposition so there is history here and these three parties have
:17:20. > :17:25.delivered and they will deliver in the event of people saying we will
:17:26. > :17:29.stay part of the UK. If Scotland vote no to independence, when will
:17:30. > :17:33.Scotland get these extra powers? I would imagine that in the general
:17:34. > :17:38.election all three parties will have something in their manifesto and you
:17:39. > :17:42.would expect to see legislation in the session of Parliament that
:17:43. > :17:48.follows that. Imagining is not certainty. Because the three parties
:17:49. > :17:54.have said this is what they will do, and it is important having said that
:17:55. > :17:58.they stick to it. If you look in the past when the Nationalists said the
:17:59. > :18:05.same thing, when they cast doubt over what would happen in 2012, we
:18:06. > :18:08.delivered. The only party that walked out of both of these
:18:09. > :18:12.discussions were the Nationalists because they are not interested in
:18:13. > :18:17.more powers, they want a complete break. You cannot say that if
:18:18. > :18:23.Edinburgh gets more devolution that wouldn't mean fewer Scottish MPs in
:18:24. > :18:30.Westminster, can you? Nobody has any plans to reduce the number of MPs.
:18:31. > :18:35.If you step back from this moment, what people have been asked to do in
:18:36. > :18:40.September is to vote on the future of their country, Scotland, and
:18:41. > :18:44.whether we should be part of the UK. When I say part of the UK, full
:18:45. > :18:47.members of the UK with representation in the House of
:18:48. > :18:51.Commons and the institutions that affect our lives. This is a
:18:52. > :18:59.critically important vote. We want to see more decentralisation of
:19:00. > :19:04.power to Scotland, and to local authorities within Scotland, but we
:19:05. > :19:09.don't want a complete break with the uncertainties, the risks and the
:19:10. > :19:19.downright disadvantages that would throw Scotland's away if we were to
:19:20. > :19:27.make that break. The economic arguments are dominating people's
:19:28. > :19:40.thinking, the polls show, that is what is dominating at the moment.
:19:41. > :19:45.You cannot guarantee continued membership of the European Union
:19:46. > :19:51.given all the talk now about an in-out UK referendum. Firstly I
:19:52. > :19:56.don't think anyone has ever argued Scotland wouldn't get back in. The
:19:57. > :20:00.big question is the terms and conditions we would have to meet and
:20:01. > :20:05.we are applying to get into something that is established, it
:20:06. > :20:10.wouldn't be a negotiation. What we have said is there is no way Europe
:20:11. > :20:15.would let Scotland keep the rebate which Scotland has, there would be
:20:16. > :20:22.big questions over whether we have to join the euro, and other terms
:20:23. > :20:27.and conditions. The European Union does not act with any great speed,
:20:28. > :20:32.on average it takes eight and a half years to get into Europe. I don't
:20:33. > :20:37.want that uncertainty or the disadvantages that would come
:20:38. > :20:43.Scotland's away that come with losing clout in the European Union.
:20:44. > :20:48.The second point you asked me about is in relation to the UK's
:20:49. > :20:53.membership of the European Union, and if you look at polls, the
:20:54. > :21:04.majority of people still want to stay in the UK. Frankly, a lot of
:21:05. > :21:09.people on my side didn't make the argument against independence for a
:21:10. > :21:14.long time, we have been doing that over the last two and a half years
:21:15. > :21:20.and we are making progress and that is why I can say I think we will win
:21:21. > :21:23.provided we continue to get our arguments across. Similarly with the
:21:24. > :21:29.European Union, the case needs to be made because it is a powerful case.
:21:30. > :21:36.Isn't it true that the Nationalists win either way? They win if it is a
:21:37. > :21:46.yes vote, and they win if it is a no vote. They wanted devolution max so
:21:47. > :21:49.they win either way. There is a world of difference between
:21:50. > :21:55.devolution and further devolution where you remain part of the UK.
:21:56. > :21:59.There is a world of difference between that and making a break,
:22:00. > :22:04.where Scotland becomes a foreign country to the rest of the UK. You
:22:05. > :22:10.lose that security and those opportunities. You lose the same
:22:11. > :22:18.currency, the opportunity with pensions and so on. They are
:22:19. > :22:24.entitled to argue this case with passion, they want a break, but the
:22:25. > :22:29.two things are worlds apart. Gordon Brown said that the no campaign was
:22:30. > :22:33.too negative, have you adjusted to take that criticism into account?
:22:34. > :22:38.Ever since I launched this campaign over two years ago I said we would
:22:39. > :22:46.make a strong powerful case for remaining part of the UK. Look at
:22:47. > :22:50.our research, where we have had warnings from people to say that if
:22:51. > :22:55.we do well with research in Scotland we get more than our population
:22:56. > :23:00.share of the grand and we gain from that. There is a positive case but
:23:01. > :23:04.equally nobody will stop me from saying to the Nationalists, look at
:23:05. > :23:08.the assertions you make which are collapsing like skittles at the
:23:09. > :23:15.moment. Their assertions don't stand up. They assert that somehow milk
:23:16. > :23:19.and honey will be flowing. It is perfectly healthy within a
:23:20. > :23:27.referendum campaign to say that what you are saying simply isn't true.
:23:28. > :23:42.You have been negative, we all know about the so-called Cyber Nats book
:23:43. > :23:50.you compared Alex Salmond to the leader of North Korea. On! The
:23:51. > :23:56.context was that Alex Salmond was being asked why it was that UKIP had
:23:57. > :24:01.additional seat and he appeared to blame television being been doing
:24:02. > :24:11.from another country, from BBC South of the border. If you cannot have
:24:12. > :24:15.humour in a debate, heaven help us. I think it is important in this
:24:16. > :24:20.debate that people from outside politics should be allowed to have
:24:21. > :24:25.their say whatever side they are on because that will make for a far
:24:26. > :24:30.better, healthier debate. Nobody should be put in a state of fear and
:24:31. > :24:36.alarm by worrying about what will happen if they stand up. Despite the
:24:37. > :24:42.nastiness, more and more people are making a stand. We have run out of
:24:43. > :24:48.time. Thank you. I will be talking to the SNP's
:24:49. > :24:55.hippity leader, Nicola Sturgeon, next week on Sunday Politics.
:24:56. > :25:00.Scotland: For Richer or Poorer will be on BBC Two at 9pm tomorrow.
:25:01. > :25:06.Disastrous results in the European elections, it is fair to say the Lib
:25:07. > :25:10.Dems are down in the doldrums. In a moment I will be speaking to Nick
:25:11. > :26:00.Clegg, but first Emily has been asking what Lib Dems would say to
:26:01. > :26:03.Clegg, but first Emily has been blocks of our success. The
:26:04. > :26:59.councillors who gets the case work done are also the people who go
:27:00. > :27:07.councillors who gets the case work always a danger of appearing to be a
:27:08. > :27:10.party that merely dilutes Labour or dilutes the Conservatives. We have a
:27:11. > :27:14.of is serious, positive messages and we need to get those across in the
:27:15. > :27:20.next election because if we don't people will vote for the Tories.
:27:21. > :27:26.Nick, what do you think of the party's message at the moment? I
:27:27. > :27:31.have had a look at early draft of our manifesto and there is some good
:27:32. > :27:36.stuff in there but the authors are probably too interested in what may
:27:37. > :27:41.think we have achieved in the last five years and not really focusing
:27:42. > :28:10.on what the voters will want to be hearing about the next five years.
:28:11. > :28:14.Perhaps they should get out more and test some of these messages on the
:28:15. > :28:17.doorstep. So you want to see the top ranks of the party on the doorstep.
:28:18. > :28:21.Gareth online one also wants to make a point about the manifesto. There
:28:22. > :28:26.is clearly a problem somewhere near the top and there are some people
:28:27. > :28:30.who seem to be obsessed with power for power's sake, and happy with a
:28:31. > :28:35.timid offer but the Liberal Democrats want to change things. We
:28:36. > :28:40.are running out of time so let's try to squeeze one more call in. What
:28:41. > :28:45.are your thoughts on the long-term future of the party? I think serious
:28:46. > :28:50.long-term danger is that the party could be relegated to the fringes of
:28:51. > :28:53.the UK and no longer being a national party. We have gone back
:28:54. > :28:57.decades if that happens because for many years we have been represented
:28:58. > :29:00.in every part of the country at some level and we have got to rescue
:29:01. > :29:04.ourselves from that. Some interesting views but we are going
:29:05. > :29:09.to have to wait until the general election next year to find out how
:29:10. > :29:13.well the Lib Dems face up to these challenges. Thanks for listening, we
:29:14. > :29:16.are going to finish with an old classic now.
:29:17. > :29:18.# I'm sorry, I'm sorry... #. Nick Clegg, welcome to the
:29:19. > :29:23.programme. I want to come onto your situation in a minute but as you
:29:24. > :29:25.will have seen in the papers, there is mounting concern over and
:29:26. > :29:27.historic Westminster paedophile ring, and files relating to it
:29:28. > :29:32.mysteriously disappearing. Why are you against a full public enquiry
:29:33. > :29:41.into this? I wouldn't rule anything out. I think we should do anything
:29:42. > :29:56.it takes to uncover this and achieve justice.
:29:57. > :30:01.delivered, even all these many years later. How do you do it? There is an
:30:02. > :30:06.inquiry in the Home Office about what's happened to these documents,
:30:07. > :30:09.serious questions need to be asked about what happened in the Home
:30:10. > :30:13.Office and those questions need to be answered. There are inquiries in
:30:14. > :30:17.the BBC, in the NHS and most importantly of all the police are
:30:18. > :30:23.looking into the places where this abuse was alleged to have taken
:30:24. > :30:28.place. All I would say is, let's make sure that justice is delivered,
:30:29. > :30:33.truth is uncovered and I think that the way to do that, as we have seen,
:30:34. > :30:37.is by allowing the police to get on with their work. You say that, but
:30:38. > :30:42.there are only seven police involved in this inquiry. There are 195
:30:43. > :30:45.involved in the hacking investigations. We can both agree
:30:46. > :30:50.that child abuse is more important and serious than hacking. The Home
:30:51. > :30:53.Office, there are reports that Home Office officials may have been
:30:54. > :31:00.mentioned in the dossier, people don't trust people to investigate
:31:01. > :31:03.themselves, Mr Clegg? No, I accept that we need to make sure that - and
:31:04. > :31:07.the police need to make sure that the police investigations are
:31:08. > :31:13.thorough, well resourced. I can't think of anything more horrendous, I
:31:14. > :31:15.can't, than powerful people organising themselves and worse
:31:16. > :31:19.still, this is what is alleged, covering up for each other to abuse
:31:20. > :31:24.the most vulnerable people in society's care - children. But at
:31:25. > :31:29.the end of the day, the only way you can get people in the dock, the only
:31:30. > :31:32.way you can get people charged, is by allowing the prosecuting
:31:33. > :31:38.authorities and the police to do their job. I have an open mind about
:31:39. > :31:41.what other inquiries take place. A number of other inquiries are taking
:31:42. > :31:45.place. I assume any additional inquiries wouldn't be able to second
:31:46. > :31:48.guess or look into the matters which the police are looking into already.
:31:49. > :31:51.All I would say is that people who have information, who want to
:31:52. > :31:54.provide information which they think is relevant to this, please get in
:31:55. > :32:00.touch with the police. Alright. Let's come on to our own inquiry
:32:01. > :32:04.into the state of the Lib Dems. You have attempted to distance yourself
:32:05. > :32:08.and the party from the Tories, but still stay in Government - it is
:32:09. > :32:13.called aggressive differentiation. Why isn't it working? It's not
:32:14. > :32:19.called aggressive differentiation. It is called "coalition". It is two
:32:20. > :32:22.parties who retain different identities, different values, have
:32:23. > :32:26.different aspirations for the future. But during this Parliament
:32:27. > :32:30.have come together because we were facing a unique national emergency
:32:31. > :32:34.back in 2010, the economy was teetering on the edge of a
:32:35. > :32:37.precipice. I'm immensely proud, notwithstanding our political
:32:38. > :32:39.challenges, which are real, I'm immensely proud that the Liberal
:32:40. > :32:42.Democrats, we stepped up to the plate, held our nerve and without
:32:43. > :32:46.the Liberal Democrats, there wouldn't now be that economic
:32:47. > :32:49.recovery which is helping many people across the country. Why
:32:50. > :32:57.aren't you getting any credit for it? Well, we won't get credit if we
:32:58. > :33:00.spend all our time staring at our navals. If it wasn't for the Liberal
:33:01. > :33:05.Democrats, there wouldn't be more jobs now available to people. They
:33:06. > :33:13.don't believe you, they are giving the Tories the credit for the
:33:14. > :33:17.recovery? Well, you might assert that, we will assert and I will
:33:18. > :33:22.shout it from the rooftops that if we had not created the stability by
:33:23. > :33:26.forming this Coalition Government and then hard-wired into the
:33:27. > :33:29.Government's plans, not only the gory job of fixing the public
:33:30. > :33:32.finances, but doing so much more fairly than would have been the
:33:33. > :33:35.case, if the Conservatives had been in Government on their own, they
:33:36. > :33:41.wouldn't have delivered these tax cuts. They wouldn't have delivered
:33:42. > :33:47.the triple lock guarantee for pensions or the pupil premium. OK.
:33:48. > :33:53.Why are you 8% in the polls? Well, because I think where we get our
:33:54. > :34:03.message across - and I am here in my own constituency - this is a
:34:04. > :34:08.constituency where I am a campaigning MP - we can dispel a lot
:34:09. > :34:12.of the information and say we have done a decent thing by going into
:34:13. > :34:16.Government and we have delivered big changes, big reforms which you can
:34:17. > :34:22.touch and see in your school, in your pensions, in your taxes and
:34:23. > :34:26.then people do support us and, in our areas of strength, we were
:34:27. > :34:29.winning against both the Conservative and Labour parties. It
:34:30. > :34:33.is a big effort. Of course, there are lots of people from both left
:34:34. > :34:37.and right who want to shout us down and want to vilify our role in
:34:38. > :34:42.Government. What we also need to do - and Nick Harvey was quite right -
:34:43. > :34:47.having been proud of our record of delivery, we also need to set out in
:34:48. > :34:53.our manifesto as we are and as we will our promise of more, of more
:34:54. > :35:00.support in schools. So why is it then... Why is it then that a Lib
:35:01. > :35:04.Dem MP in our own film says you are in danger of no longer becoming a
:35:05. > :35:11.National Party. That could be the Clegg legacy, you cease to be a
:35:12. > :35:14.National Party? I'm a practical man. I believe passionately in what we
:35:15. > :35:18.have done in politics. I am so proud of my party. I don't spend that much
:35:19. > :35:22.time speculating that the end might be nigh. There is no point in doing
:35:23. > :35:28.that. Let's get out there, which is what I do in my own constituency, in
:35:29. > :35:31.challenges circumstances and say we are proud of what we have done, we
:35:32. > :35:33.have done a good thing for the country, we have delivered more
:35:34. > :35:38.Liberal Democrat policies than the party has ever dreamed delivering
:35:39. > :35:42.before. We have a programme of change, of reform, of liberal
:35:43. > :35:46.reform, which is very exciting. Just over the last few weeks, I have been
:35:47. > :35:50.setting out our plans to provide more help to carers, to make sure
:35:51. > :35:55.teachers in every classroom are properly qualified, that all kids in
:35:56. > :36:00.school are being taught a proper core curriculum. That parts company
:36:01. > :36:04.from the ideological rigidities with which the Conservatives deal with
:36:05. > :36:09.education policy. Those are thing which speak to many of the values
:36:10. > :36:15.that people who support us... Alright. When Mike Storey gets out
:36:16. > :36:22.and about, he told this programme two weeks' ago that he finds that
:36:23. > :36:27.you "are toxic on the doorstep". Look, as everybody knows, being the
:36:28. > :36:30.leader of a party, which for the first time in its history goes into
:36:31. > :36:35.Government, which is already a controversial thing to do because
:36:36. > :36:39.you are governing with our enemies, the Conservatives, and on top of
:36:40. > :36:42.that, doing all the difficult and unpopular things to fix the broken
:36:43. > :36:46.economy which was left to us by Labour, of course as leader of that
:36:47. > :36:50.party I get a lot of incoming fire from right and left. The right say
:36:51. > :36:53.that I'm stopping the Conservatives doing what they want. There is a
:36:54. > :36:58.good reason for that. They didn't win the election. The left say that
:36:59. > :37:02.somehow we have lost our soul when we haven't. That happens day in, day
:37:03. > :37:07.out. Of course that will have some effect. My answer to that is not to
:37:08. > :37:14.buckle to those criticisms, those misplaced Chris -- criticisms from
:37:15. > :37:20.left and right, but to stand up proudly. Is it your intention to
:37:21. > :37:26.fight the next election against an in-out referendum on Europe? Yes.
:37:27. > :37:31.Unless there is major treaty change? Our position hasn't waivered, it
:37:32. > :37:34.won't waiver, we are not going to flip-flop on the issue of the
:37:35. > :37:38.referendum like the Conservatives did. We want an in-out referendum.
:37:39. > :37:41.With ve legislated for the trigger when that will happen, when in u
:37:42. > :37:45.powers are transferred to the European Union. That is what we have
:37:46. > :37:52.said for years. We legislated for that... So no change? No change.
:37:53. > :37:55.Alright. We are expecting a reshuffle shortly. Will you keep
:37:56. > :38:02.Vince Cable as Business Secretary to the election? I'm immensely proud of
:38:03. > :38:08.what Vince has done. Yes, I intend to make sure that Vince continues to
:38:09. > :38:11.serve in the Government in his present capacity Look what he has
:38:12. > :38:15.done on apprenticeships, he's done more than many people for many years
:38:16. > :38:18.to make sure we build-up manufacturing, the north here, not
:38:19. > :38:24.just the south. I'm proud of what he's done. We have talked about some
:38:25. > :38:28.heavy things. We know you have got into kickboxing. Is there any danger
:38:29. > :38:34.of you becoming a mammal - you know what I mean - a middle-aged man in
:38:35. > :38:44.Lycra! Will the Tour de France influence you? Absolutely no risk of
:38:45. > :38:49.that whatsoever having seen the Tour de France start yesterday near
:38:50. > :38:54.Leeds. I have the yellow Yorkshire sign on my pullover. I will see them
:38:55. > :38:58.later whisk through my constituency. I will not try to emulate them. I'm
:38:59. > :39:02.sure that is to the relief of a grateful nation. Thank you.
:39:03. > :39:04.It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:39:05. > :39:08.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now
:39:09. > :39:10.for Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up here in 20 minutes,
:39:11. > :39:54.the Week Ahead. And here to play a spot of political
:39:55. > :39:58.tennis are our two guess. Robert Buckland, Conservative MP in
:39:59. > :40:02.Wiltshire and Todd Foreman who is standing as a Labour candidate in
:40:03. > :40:08.Somerset. We will be chatting to them in a minute. But first,
:40:09. > :40:13.wash`out Alex Salmond. It is not just some folk in Scotland wanting
:40:14. > :40:17.independence. The West Country is getting more control over its
:40:18. > :40:28.destiny. Spending power is being handed over to local authorities. Ed
:40:29. > :40:32.Miliband is joining in. This is about giving local people power to
:40:33. > :40:36.make decisions that matter to them. It is about saying that we cannot
:40:37. > :40:40.have all the jobs created in London and the south`east. We have to make
:40:41. > :40:44.sure that we have to create the high skilled jobs in this region and
:40:45. > :40:49.right across the country and we will make it happen.
:40:50. > :40:57.Let's pick up on that. Is this another way of Ed Miliband stealing
:40:58. > :41:03.the coalition's thunder? He is later the party. Radical proposals about
:41:04. > :41:08.devolving spending control have already been adopted. We have seen
:41:09. > :41:11.here in the West Country that localism and devolution happening.
:41:12. > :41:16.So welcome statements but we were here first. What does he mean when
:41:17. > :41:22.we were `` when he says we will get more control over spending? Were
:41:23. > :41:26.saying that regional areas, like the Bristol area, would get more control
:41:27. > :41:35.over money that could be spent by LEPs. What are they? Partnerships.
:41:36. > :41:39.It would help me in North East Somerset where I'm standing, part of
:41:40. > :41:43.the area has a huge need for local development and more economic
:41:44. > :41:47.development. Traditional industries like coal`mining and print works
:41:48. > :41:52.have gone and had never been replaced. If we can work with local
:41:53. > :41:56.government, with central government, distillate business wealth in that
:41:57. > :42:02.area, `` to stimulate business wealth in that area, that would be
:42:03. > :42:07.good for Somerset. One problem is that these local enterprise
:42:08. > :42:10.partnerships meet in secret? No, they are open bodies and a welcome
:42:11. > :42:17.representatives like me and my fellow MPs. They never invited me!
:42:18. > :42:23.Well, if I was there, I would open the doors. It is important that they
:42:24. > :42:27.explain their role. They have the `` they have significant powers. There
:42:28. > :42:31.is growth fund money which is allocated and city deals that are
:42:32. > :42:35.coming down the track. Devolution of real spending power to local
:42:36. > :42:42.business leaders, local politicians. It is happening. I have to jump in,
:42:43. > :42:45.we have seen that that money is not all been claimed. Money has been
:42:46. > :42:58.allocated and it is not being claimed. There are funds available
:42:59. > :43:01.Everybody knows we short of homes in this county but should we build new
:43:02. > :43:04.ones on the patches of land that separate one town from another?
:43:05. > :43:07.Some local MPs say never and want the rules about preserving the green
:43:08. > :43:23.70 years after its creation, Britain's green belt seems imprinted
:43:24. > :43:26.on our national psyche. When development is threatened, protest
:43:27. > :44:46.can be passionate. Why are people pressing
:44:47. > :44:50.Leading a protest in his local constituency is local MP. This has
:44:51. > :44:53.been put up a sale with a development opportunity. My point is
:44:54. > :44:57.that there is no development opportunity. The green belt is
:44:58. > :45:04.protected. As the local MP, I was elected on a mandate to protect the
:45:05. > :45:08.green belt. This week, a group of MPs will demand a financial penalty
:45:09. > :45:10.for building on the green belt and more powerful local green belt full
:45:11. > :45:15.`` for local people. I would actually
:45:16. > :45:17.like to see green belt protection to go down to local level
:45:18. > :45:20.and ward level and parish level. So that local people can say,
:45:21. > :45:23.this is our land and we want to I have been working with MPs to come
:45:24. > :45:37.up with something on this issue. Parish councillors would not be
:45:38. > :45:42.swayed by talk of a housing need. I am told there is a shortage, but I
:45:43. > :45:46.don't believe it. We need to make it very obvious and very well known
:45:47. > :45:53.that local people, the residents of this parish, value the open spaces
:45:54. > :45:57.almost with their life. An Englishman's home may be his castle
:45:58. > :46:10.but he feels that surrounded are also passionately defended.
:46:11. > :46:13.A professor who believes the green belt is strangling development.
:46:14. > :46:19.Professor, we have heard from people who want to protect the green belt.
:46:20. > :46:23.Put your case for building on it. We always say, don't build on my bit of
:46:24. > :46:27.green belt but the problem is that the green belt is a vast area of
:46:28. > :46:31.land. It covers more than seven times the area of the city of
:46:32. > :46:39.Bristol, even within the boundaries of the city you have got 610 eggs ``
:46:40. > :46:45.610 hectares of green belt land which is 6% of the area of Bristol.
:46:46. > :46:51.So people have a mistaken idea of the green belt, that it is English
:46:52. > :46:56.tourist board heritage countryside, which they have access to. It is a
:46:57. > :47:02.very large area, more than twice as large in total across England as all
:47:03. > :47:10.the build`up areas in the whole of England. `` the built up areas. We
:47:11. > :47:14.need land to build houses. But do we want to build houses between Bristol
:47:15. > :47:21.and Bath and Portishead? We do not need houses all the way? We do need
:47:22. > :47:25.to protect beautiful countryside and high amenity land. But much of the
:47:26. > :47:30.green belt is not like that. The argument seems to be a magical
:47:31. > :47:34.mantra that we must average villages from cities. I live in London, I
:47:35. > :47:38.don't think London would be a better place if there were three green
:47:39. > :47:42.fields between Hammersmith and Chelsea or between Chelsea and
:47:43. > :47:47.Westminster. That is the logic of what we are doing. Our cities have
:47:48. > :47:53.historically grown by an accretion. Let's bring our other guests in. Is
:47:54. > :47:57.he right, Todd? I disagree with Somerset. The vast majority of
:47:58. > :48:03.north`east Somerset is green belt and it is the land between Bath and
:48:04. > :48:09.Bristol. It is important to communities and quality of life.
:48:10. > :48:14.What about people who, if you are elected as MP, will knock on your
:48:15. > :48:21.door and say I want a house. What we need to do is fire at as building on
:48:22. > :48:27.Brownfield site. We have done that. `` we need to prioritise a building
:48:28. > :48:32.on Brownfield sites. If people want land, why should people not have it
:48:33. > :48:39.if there is a scrappy bit greenfield land to build a house on? I live in
:48:40. > :48:44.a house that was built last year which has enhanced the village I
:48:45. > :48:47.live in. If we are going to build on green belt, it should be reserved
:48:48. > :48:54.for exceptional circumstances. Robert? I think there is an essence
:48:55. > :49:00.of a case which is that the green belt does not cover many large towns
:49:01. > :49:04.and cities. In Swindon, we do not have a green belt, but we have
:49:05. > :49:09.greenfield sites which are under pressure. I worry that in the debate
:49:10. > :49:13.about green belt, a loss of greenfield sites, under more
:49:14. > :49:18.pressure, unfairly, because other parts of the country will not take
:49:19. > :49:22.their fair share. There is a local protest about development on the
:49:23. > :49:29.green belt, and the local MP will be jammed there like a shot to curry
:49:30. > :49:33.favour? It is not like that. We need to maintain the integrity of towns
:49:34. > :49:38.and villages. Conurbations are one thing but the traditional towns and
:49:39. > :49:43.villages of wherever sent and where I'm from, Wales, is important. If we
:49:44. > :49:49.do not listen to people, democracy is failing. Have they convinced you,
:49:50. > :49:54.Professor? Not in the least! We do need houses, but we need such a tiny
:49:55. > :49:59.fraction of the green belt and preserving it 100% intact when it is
:50:00. > :50:04.such a huge part of the servers of England, but pressure on other
:50:05. > :50:08.places including greenfield sites and Brownfield sites which have high
:50:09. > :50:13.amenity value. There is a case I know of in a site near London which
:50:14. > :50:16.is the most important site for nesting for nightingales which is
:50:17. > :50:21.under pressure for housing because it legally it is Brownfield land. We
:50:22. > :50:27.should be protecting land because of its value, not because of its
:50:28. > :50:32.designation. There is the idea that England is a built`up country. In
:50:33. > :50:36.fact, 90% of it is not built on. If you drive from hit as wind and, you
:50:37. > :50:42.will hardly the house. On the motorway, `` if you drive from here
:50:43. > :50:49.to Swindon, you will hardly see a house. It does need to be a living
:50:50. > :50:53.thing, like development. Because of the pressures that come on
:50:54. > :50:58.non`greenbelt greenfield sites are disproportionate and unfair. We have
:50:59. > :51:03.to leave it there. Professor, thank you for joining us.
:51:04. > :51:06.Information about you and me may soon be stored
:51:07. > :51:08.in a giant Cold War bunker deep beneath the Wiltshire countryside.
:51:09. > :51:11.The government think that our private data is useful for all
:51:12. > :51:15.sorts of reasons and it wants to gather it all up and keep it safe.
:51:16. > :51:18.So it is setting up an institute to do just that, named after
:51:19. > :51:22.Alan Turing, the genius who broke the Nazi codes during the war.
:51:23. > :51:24.But why should we give them our secrets?
:51:25. > :51:45.Every tweet, every set, every picture creates a digital picture.
:51:46. > :51:50.We are producing data at a race unprecedented in human existence.
:51:51. > :51:55.About what you like, what you might like. It is piling up and being
:51:56. > :52:00.poured over. Every time you research on Google, they collect data on you.
:52:01. > :52:04.Then you go to your tube, and they put all that data together to find
:52:05. > :52:11.out about you to get inside your head and to give you adverts. Our
:52:12. > :52:18.data is now routinely exchanged for goods and services. It is a digital
:52:19. > :52:32.deal the government wants in on. This is 26 million square feet. We
:52:33. > :52:34.are about 110 feet down now. Geoff Thomas wants to expand down here
:52:35. > :52:37.into this mind. This is the emergency exit or
:52:38. > :52:39.the back door to cite three. This would have been this
:52:40. > :52:48.government backing the Cold War. And now the government could be
:52:49. > :52:51.back. This physical space down here
:52:52. > :52:54.lends itself perfectly to creating Jeff wants masses of data
:52:55. > :53:11.from across government We can be `` we can bring datasets
:53:12. > :53:16.from government and defence. That could then be mined and analysed for
:53:17. > :53:20.the public good. We will have more information about what everybody is
:53:21. > :53:24.doing or what things are doing so we can analyse things to get benefit
:53:25. > :53:30.for society as a whole. This would all be part of the Alan Turing
:53:31. > :53:33.Institute. The government promised to collect and crack big data in
:53:34. > :53:39.honour of the man who cracked the Enigma code. The godfather of modern
:53:40. > :53:44.computing. It is a continuation of the work Alan Turing was doing. The
:53:45. > :53:49.Alan Turing Institute celebrates the genius that was Alan Turing and the
:53:50. > :53:54.work that he did at Bletchley Park. So far, so good. But the public may
:53:55. > :53:58.need some convincing that this is not just Big Brother. After the
:53:59. > :54:05.revelations of people like Edward Snowden about what is being
:54:06. > :54:10.collected, and how. This data that governments have, we should be
:54:11. > :54:14.concerned. Their ability issues. In the corporate world, there is
:54:15. > :54:18.informed consent. Personal judgement about whether giving of your privacy
:54:19. > :54:23.is worth the value of the services you are getting. That is the
:54:24. > :54:27.question for us all, particularly the digital generation. I found them
:54:28. > :54:33.at this event is to find the Alan Turing peers `` Alan Turings of the
:54:34. > :54:42.future. They are growing up with everything that entails. Daphne
:54:43. > :54:46.Pritchett is a business lawyer who specialises in data protection. `` a
:54:47. > :54:51.Bristol lawyer. Why is a government want all this information? There
:54:52. > :54:56.were huge financial advances by people collecting information. For
:54:57. > :55:02.research purposes and also a lot of good that can be done. Give me an
:55:03. > :55:08.example? We had a recent example with the government trying to
:55:09. > :55:16.collect information through a project which has caused controversy
:55:17. > :55:20.into the health and social information care to research for the
:55:21. > :55:27.better good of us all. Is there any harm in it? The harm is where it is
:55:28. > :55:32.not done properly. We are at risk of that. The European Commission has
:55:33. > :55:36.analysed this and highlighted the fact that there is innovation that
:55:37. > :55:40.can be made through collecting innovation but also use potential
:55:41. > :55:46.for breach of privacy. It is all about trying to do it in the right
:55:47. > :55:51.way and making sure that individuals have the rights that they are
:55:52. > :55:57.entitled to. You are a lawyer, do you trust the government to gather
:55:58. > :56:01.information about all of us? I think it has to be beyond a question of
:56:02. > :56:06.trust. It has to be underpinned by statute. We need to codify our laws
:56:07. > :56:11.on privacy. We have a right to privacy, a qualified right which can
:56:12. > :56:15.be qualified by national`security interests. But we have data
:56:16. > :56:20.protection laws as well which I think need to be codified in a more
:56:21. > :56:22.clear way so that we can balance our rights to privacy against the
:56:23. > :56:28.interests of the national government. At times of national
:56:29. > :56:37.emergency. How can the government abuses? `` abuse it. My worry is
:56:38. > :56:42.that it is difficult to unpick the contest of the data and the fact
:56:43. > :56:49.that you and I may have had a telephone call. `` the context of
:56:50. > :56:53.the data. It may sound trivial but it is important. The government
:56:54. > :56:57.could have access to all sorts of details about our private life which
:56:58. > :57:01.could affect our insurance policies and aspects of our life and work. I
:57:02. > :57:08.think we have to maintain a balance carefully. If the rights to be
:57:09. > :57:13.concerned? I think Robert makes some good points. This is new technology,
:57:14. > :57:16.new ways of using data which could have important applications but it
:57:17. > :57:23.may be that the existing data protection law that we do not have,
:57:24. > :57:28.had not been imagined for this. But we know that GCHQ is listening in,
:57:29. > :57:34.that the American secret services are taking it in by the tonne. It is
:57:35. > :57:42.too late, is the gene not already out of the bottle? Dashes the genie
:57:43. > :57:47.not already out of the bottle? The United States is ahead of us and
:57:48. > :57:51.there is concern among the poor relation `` the population that
:57:52. > :57:56.their secret are out. We lock up our homes against burglars and yet the
:57:57. > :58:02.most valuable aspects of our lives, our personal data, we often cavalier
:58:03. > :58:06.about. I absolutely agree. You are quite right that the law that we
:58:07. > :58:10.have at the moment is out of date. There is a new European regulation
:58:11. > :58:15.being debated upon at the moment which is going through the European
:58:16. > :58:18.Parliament. We are set to see very big changes which will hopefully
:58:19. > :58:23.anticipate some of the problems, the challenges we are facing. How can
:58:24. > :58:28.the perfect ourselves from having our databases to? Part of the
:58:29. > :58:34.protection will come by insisting that organisations and the public
:58:35. > :58:37.sector are collecting information fairly and getting informed consent
:58:38. > :58:41.and sharing it properly and keeping it secure. Some of those things that
:58:42. > :58:46.have not happened in the past because the Levels of fine have not
:58:47. > :58:53.been fit for purpose. That is an important of point. The Levels of
:58:54. > :58:57.the fines are really low. But why should the government not do it when
:58:58. > :59:02.Google are already doing and they are a private company? I think that
:59:03. > :59:07.any organisation should be within the law. We have a rule of law so
:59:08. > :59:13.the data detection act applies to private and public. `` the Data
:59:14. > :59:18.Protection Act. So we can trust government, but perhaps not the
:59:19. > :59:22.private sector? I think it is right that every organisation should be
:59:23. > :59:26.subject to challenge for the information they are collecting.
:59:27. > :59:36.Google has been challenged for the use of information and will continue
:59:37. > :59:40.to the `` to be so. This new European regulation brings in fines
:59:41. > :59:44.which are a huge step up from the current level. It will keep it will
:59:45. > :59:51.keep yours very busy. I certainly hope so! Every cloud. Mac thank you
:59:52. > :59:58.for coming in. Now, time to condense every week ``
:59:59. > :00:01.the week and a one minute. Here's our 62nd round up.
:00:02. > :00:03.The chronic lack of family doctors came to the fore this week
:00:04. > :00:06.when a surgery serving 6000 people warned of possible closure.
:00:07. > :00:08.Two doctors at Saint Martin's surgery in Bristol resigned
:00:09. > :00:11.because they said their workload was too much.
:00:12. > :00:14.A Bristol teenager is behind this film to bring an end to
:00:15. > :00:20.Applauded in a report by the Home Affairs Select Committee.
:00:21. > :00:22.The MPs concluded that the authorities have failed over 100,000
:00:23. > :00:32.A judge ruled that the controversial cull in Gloucestershire and Somerset
:00:33. > :00:37.The case is likely to be heard before shooting badgers resumes
:00:38. > :00:42.And some West Country teachers mutated into zombies after school
:00:43. > :00:51.They claimed increased workloads have left them brain dead.
:00:52. > :02:31.as the row over their pay and pensions continues.
:02:32. > :02:49.We will start with the strikes, Matt Hancock was hardline in the
:02:50. > :02:54.head-to-head that he did with the TUC. I guess that the Tory internal
:02:55. > :02:59.polling and focus groups must be telling them that there are votes in
:03:00. > :03:07.taking a tough line? There is that and there is the fact that they are
:03:08. > :03:12.now much more confident on any economic policy two or three years
:03:13. > :03:16.ago. They shied away from it because the economy was shrinking, there was
:03:17. > :03:20.still a danger that public sector job losses would lead to higher
:03:21. > :03:25.unemployment overall. Now, the economy is growing, they have a good
:03:26. > :03:30.story to sell about employment so they are much more bolshy and brazen
:03:31. > :03:35.than they were two or three years ago. They know that it always causes
:03:36. > :03:40.problems for Labour. Labour is naturally sympathetic to the public
:03:41. > :03:45.sector workers, pay being squeezed, they are striking to make an issue
:03:46. > :03:51.of it. And yet they can't quite come out and give the unions 100% Labour
:03:52. > :03:54.support? Exactly. You saw Tristram Hunt on the Marr Show this morning
:03:55. > :03:57.squirming to support the idea of strikes, but not this particular
:03:58. > :04:01.strike. It was always the question that gets asked to Labour - who
:04:02. > :04:05.funds you? That is a real problem. The bit that gets me is they trail
:04:06. > :04:10.this ef are I time there is a -- every time there is a strike, this
:04:11. > :04:14.idea of cutting it to ballots and local election turnout was a third.
:04:15. > :04:18.Boris Johnson was elected Mayor of London with 38% turnout. We need to
:04:19. > :04:27.talk about-turnout across our democracy. That is an easy rebuttal
:04:28. > :04:30.for Labour to make. Matt Hancock was hardline about changing the strike
:04:31. > :04:34.law. When you asked him the question, if you are not going to
:04:35. > :04:39.stabilise the public finances till 2018, does this mean the pay freeze
:04:40. > :04:44.or no real term pay increase in the public sector will increase till
:04:45. > :04:49.2018, h e was inner vous on that one. -- he was nervous on that one.
:04:50. > :04:54.This strike is different to those strikes that took place in 2010. At
:04:55. > :04:58.that time, the TUC and the Labour Leadership thought there was going
:04:59. > :05:03.to be a great movement out there, not a kind of 1926 movement, but a
:05:04. > :05:10.great movement out there. This time round, I think the climate is
:05:11. > :05:14.different. Ed Miliband talking about wage increases being outstripped by
:05:15. > :05:18.inflation and people not seeing the recovery coming through into their
:05:19. > :05:25.pay packets. Slightly more tricky territory for the Tories. If The
:05:26. > :05:31.Labour machine cannot make something out of Matt Hancock telling this
:05:32. > :05:36.programme there will be no increase in pay for workers in the public
:05:37. > :05:39.sector till 2018, they have a problem? They do have a problem.
:05:40. > :05:43.They have to say always that they would not just turn the money taps
:05:44. > :05:47.on. That is the dance that you are locked in all the time. Can we all
:05:48. > :05:55.agree that Alan Johnson is not going to stand against Ed Miliband this
:05:56. > :05:59.side of the election? Some politicians are cynical enough. I
:06:00. > :06:04.don't think Alan Johnson is one. Do we agree? There is nothing in it for
:06:05. > :06:09.Labour and certainly not for Alan Johnson. No way. It is the last
:06:10. > :06:14.thing he would want to do. There are some desperate members going around
:06:15. > :06:17.trying to find a stalking horse. Alan Johnson will not be their man.
:06:18. > :06:23.He has more important things to do on a Thursday night on BBC One!
:06:24. > :06:27.Isn't it something about the febrile state of the Labour Party that
:06:28. > :06:32.Labour, some Labour backbenchers or in the Shadow Cabinet, can float the
:06:33. > :06:36.idea of this nonsense? If there was a time to do it, maybe it was in the
:06:37. > :06:40.middle of the Parliament. With ten months left, you are stuck with the
:06:41. > :06:47.leader you chose in 2010. I remember them failing to understand this in
:06:48. > :06:51.January of 2010 when there was that last push against Gordon Brown. Five
:06:52. > :07:04.months before an election, they were trying to do something. The deputy
:07:05. > :07:07.Leader of the Labour Party had something to do with it. There is
:07:08. > :07:17.deep unease about Ed Miliband. There are problems but Alan Johnson is not
:07:18. > :07:20.the man. I think there is no chance of it!
:07:21. > :07:22.If the most recent polls are to be believed, David Cameron appears to
:07:23. > :07:26.have enjoyed a 'Juncker bounce' - clawing back some support from UKIP
:07:27. > :07:29.after he very publicly opposed the appointment of Jean-Claude Juncker
:07:30. > :07:32.to the post of EU Commission president. Last week Nigel Farage
:07:33. > :07:35.took his newly enlarged UKIP contingent to Strasbourg
:07:36. > :07:49.for the first session of the new European Parliament.
:07:50. > :07:57.These two gentlemen have nothing to say today. It was the usual dull,
:07:58. > :08:01.looking back to a model invented 50 years ago and we are the ones that
:08:02. > :08:05.want democracy, we are the ones that want nation state, we are the ones
:08:06. > :08:13.that want a global future for our countries, not to be trapped inside
:08:14. > :08:14.this museum. Thank you. I can see we will be covering more of the
:08:15. > :08:21.European Parliament at last! It's rumoured he's likely to stand
:08:22. > :08:24.in the next general election in the Kent constituency of Thanet South,
:08:25. > :08:27.currently held by the Conservatives. Last week the Conservatives selected
:08:28. > :08:29.their candidate for the seat - Craig McKinlay -
:08:30. > :08:40.a former deputy leader of UKIP. Did you get the short straw, you
:08:41. > :08:43.have got a seat that Nigel Farage is probably going to fight? Not in the
:08:44. > :08:49.slightest. It is a seat that I know well. It is a seat that there's
:08:50. > :08:53.obvious euro scepticism there and my qualities are right for that seat.
:08:54. > :08:59.UKIP got some very good... What are your qualities? Deep-seated
:09:00. > :09:03.conservatism, I was a founder of UKIP, I wrote the script back in
:09:04. > :09:11.1992. My heart is Conservative values. They are best put out to the
:09:12. > :09:16.public by me in South Thanet. It would be ridiculous if Nigel chose
:09:17. > :09:19.that seat. We need a building block of people like myself to form a
:09:20. > :09:22.Government if we are going to have that referendum that is long
:09:23. > :09:27.overdue. I don't think he's got the luxury of losing somebody who is
:09:28. > :09:32.very similar in views to him. He would be best look looking
:09:33. > :09:35.elsewhere. You wouldn't like him to stand in your seat, would you? It
:09:36. > :09:39.would seem to make very little sense. People would say what is UKIP
:09:40. > :09:44.all about if it's fighting people who have got a similar view to them?
:09:45. > :09:47.We do need to build a majority Government for the Conservatives
:09:48. > :09:51.next year because only us are offering that clear in-out
:09:52. > :09:55.referendum. I want to be one of those building blocks that is part
:09:56. > :10:00.of that renegotiation that we will put to public in a referendum.
:10:01. > :10:11.Sounds to me like if the choice is between you and Nigel Farage next
:10:12. > :10:15.May in Thanet South, it is Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee? Not at all. The
:10:16. > :10:19.danger to this country is another Labour Government. That is one of
:10:20. > :10:23.the main reasons that I left UKIP in 2005 because that last five years of
:10:24. > :10:27.the Labour Government was the most dangerous to the fundamentals of
:10:28. > :10:37.Britain that we have ever seen. I'm happy with the Conservatives. I have
:10:38. > :10:44.full Conservative values. I am a Euro-sceptic. Thank you for joining
:10:45. > :10:52.us. The Westminster bubble yet again, which has a herd mentality, a
:10:53. > :10:58.bubble with a herd mentality, it got it wrong yet again. Mr Cameron's
:10:59. > :11:03.isolated, he is useless at diplomacy, all of which may be true,
:11:04. > :11:07.but the British people liked it and his backbenchers liked it? True.
:11:08. > :11:11.Although some of us would say it is possible... You are speaking for the
:11:12. > :11:15.bubble? I'm speaking for my segment of the bubble. Some of us argued
:11:16. > :11:27.that he got it wrong diplomatically and it would be wrong politically.
:11:28. > :11:33.It will be the passage of time. We saw UKIP decline between the 2004
:11:34. > :11:38.European elections and the 2005 General. You would expect something
:11:39. > :11:42.similar to happen this time round. The question is how far low do they
:11:43. > :11:47.fall? They are still registering 12-15% in the opinion polls. They
:11:48. > :11:51.are. When Mr Cameron wielded his veto which again the Westminster
:11:52. > :11:55.bubble said it's terrible, it is embarrassing, he overtook Labour in
:11:56. > :12:00.the polls for a while doing that. He's had a Juncker bounce. If you
:12:01. > :12:04.were a strategist, would you not conclude the more Euro-sceptic I am,
:12:05. > :12:15.the better it is for me in the polls? In the short-term, yes. This
:12:16. > :12:20.is the short-term thinking we are supposed to despise. The electricion
:12:21. > :12:23.is very clever for a different -- the selection is very clever for a
:12:24. > :12:28.different reason. It is this anti-London feeling in Thanet South.
:12:29. > :12:31.He is a councillor, he grew up in the constituency. He is a chartered
:12:32. > :12:36.accountant. He is somebody who can be seen to be a champion of local
:12:37. > :12:40.people. If they had parachuted in a special adviser, they would be in
:12:41. > :12:43.real trouble. He wants to get out... This is the third representative of
:12:44. > :12:46.the bubble? He wants to get out of the European Union which David
:12:47. > :12:51.Cameron doesn't want to do. It was interesting for that statement to
:12:52. > :12:55.MPs on Monday, there were mild Euro-sceptics who said, "I can't
:12:56. > :13:01.take this." The Speaker said can the baying mob, the Conservative MPs,
:13:02. > :13:06.quieten down, please. Ben Bradshaw, the former Minister made it, he
:13:07. > :13:13.said, "I'm reminded when the leader of the Labour Party before Harold
:13:14. > :13:17.Wilson made that famous Euro-sceptic speech and Mrs Gaitskell said
:13:18. > :13:20.darling, the wrong people are cheering." That is the challenge.
:13:21. > :13:23.Thank you, bubbles! The Daily Politics is back
:13:24. > :13:27.at its usual Noon time every day And I'll be back here on BBC One
:13:28. > :13:32.next Sunday at 11pm for the last Sunday Politics of the summer - I'll
:13:33. > :13:37.be talking to Scotland's Deputy Remember, if it's Sunday,
:13:38. > :13:45.it's the Sunday Politics.