:00:35. > :00:38.Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:39. > :00:40.Theresa May says she wants to help people who are
:00:41. > :00:43."just about managing" - so should she reverse
:00:44. > :00:45.George Osborne's cuts to benefits that are supposed to help people
:00:46. > :00:52.Prominent London Imam Shakeel Begg is an extremist speaker,
:00:53. > :00:55.says the High Court, after claims made on this programme.
:00:56. > :01:00.So why is Mr Begg still being allowed to advise the Police?
:01:01. > :01:05.Hillary Clinton fights back over the FBI's renewed investigation
:01:06. > :01:08.into her use of a private email server - is this the boost
:01:09. > :01:13.Donald Trump needed to reignite his chances of winning the White House?
:01:14. > :01:15.In the West, compassion and frustration.
:01:16. > :01:16.Activists and councils puzzle over how best
:01:17. > :01:18.to help the refugees from
:01:19. > :01:23.Now it is just a question of building that runway with the
:01:24. > :01:30.political problems that lie ahead. And haunting the studio
:01:31. > :01:32.on this Halloween weekend, the most terrifying political
:01:33. > :01:35.panel in the business - Tim 'Ghost' Shipman,
:01:36. > :01:38.'Eerie' Isabel Oakeshott and First this morning, two
:01:39. > :01:46.new models of car to be built, securing 7,000 jobs at the car plant
:01:47. > :01:50.in Sunderland and a further 28, 00 The news from Nissan on Thursday
:01:51. > :01:56.was seized on by Leave campaigners as evidence that the British
:01:57. > :01:58.economy is in rude health This morning, the Business
:01:59. > :02:02.Secretary, Greg Clark, was asked what assurances were given
:02:03. > :02:06.to the Japanese firm's bosses Well, it's in no-one's the interest
:02:07. > :02:12.for there to be tariff barriers to the continent
:02:13. > :02:17.and vice versa. So, what I said is that our
:02:18. > :02:21.objective would be to ensure that we have continued access to the markets
:02:22. > :02:26.in Europe and vice versa, without tariffs and without
:02:27. > :02:30.bureaucratic impediments. That is how we will approach
:02:31. > :02:34.those negotiations. We're joined now from Newcastle
:02:35. > :02:47.by the Shadow Business Welcome to the programme. Labour has
:02:48. > :02:52.been a bit sceptical about this Nissan decision. Can we begin by
:02:53. > :02:56.making it clear just what a great achievement this is, above all for
:02:57. > :03:01.the workers of Sunderland who have some of the highest productivity in
:03:02. > :03:06.the world, have never been on strike for 30 years, and produce cars of
:03:07. > :03:12.incredible quality. This is their victory, isn't it? Andrew, you are
:03:13. > :03:14.absolutely right. The Nissan plant in Sunderland is among the most
:03:15. > :03:20.productive in the world. The workers of Nissan are amongst the most
:03:21. > :03:26.productive as well. And it's really a victory for them and for the trade
:03:27. > :03:28.unions and the business organisations, and everybody who
:03:29. > :03:35.campaigned to make sure that the government couldn't ignore their
:03:36. > :03:39.future. It's our future. I'm the MP for Newcastle. It makes a huge
:03:40. > :03:43.difference to the region. We are a region that still likes to make
:03:44. > :03:49.things that work. It is a huge part of our advanced manufacturing
:03:50. > :03:54.sector. So it's really something we welcome as well as the job security.
:03:55. > :03:59.I'm glad we have got that on the record from the Labour shadow
:04:00. > :04:01.business secretary. But your Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell, claims
:04:02. > :04:07.the government is ignoring manufacturers and cares only about a
:04:08. > :04:10.small banking elite. In what way is safeguarding 30,000 industrial jobs
:04:11. > :04:15.in the North safeguarding a financial elite? As I said, we're
:04:16. > :04:19.really pleased that the campaigning by trade unions and the workforce,
:04:20. > :04:24.and business organisations, meant the government felt they couldn t
:04:25. > :04:28.ignore Nissan workers. Let's also be clear that we want that kind of job
:04:29. > :04:32.security for all of those working in manufacturing and in other sectors
:04:33. > :04:38.as well. And sweetheart deals for one company, no matter how important
:04:39. > :04:42.they are, that does not an industrial strategy make. Why'd you
:04:43. > :04:48.say it is a sweetheart deal? Greg Clark told the BBC this morning that
:04:49. > :04:52.what was assured to Nissan is an assurance he gives to the whole
:04:53. > :04:58.industrial sector? I was really pleased to see Greg Clark felt he
:04:59. > :05:03.had to say something, even though it's sad that we having our
:05:04. > :05:06.industrial strategy, you like, or our approach to Brexit delivered
:05:07. > :05:11.piecemeal to the media rather than to the British people and Nissan,
:05:12. > :05:15.actually. But he want published the letter. He said he has told us what
:05:16. > :05:19.is in the letter and that reassurances given on training, on
:05:20. > :05:25.science and on supporting the supply chain for the automated sector. You
:05:26. > :05:30.must be in favour all -- of all of that? We are in favour of an
:05:31. > :05:38.industrial strategy. Greg Clark unlike Sajid Javid, cannot say
:05:39. > :05:44.industrial strategy. I'm still puzzling to find out what it is you
:05:45. > :05:48.disagree with. Let me put the question. You said the assurances he
:05:49. > :05:53.has given to Nissan are available to the car manufacturing sector in
:05:54. > :05:58.general and indeed to industry in general. What is your problem with
:05:59. > :06:02.that? Two things. Let him publish the letter so we can see that, let
:06:03. > :06:08.him have the transparency he's pretending to offer. But also, we
:06:09. > :06:16.need an industrial strategy that values -- that is values based and
:06:17. > :06:22.joined. He talked about electric cars and supporting green cars. That
:06:23. > :06:26.was in regard to Nissan. At the same time the government has slashed
:06:27. > :06:30.support for other areas of green technology. So what is it? That is
:06:31. > :06:36.not to do with the Nissan deal. Labour implied at some stage there
:06:37. > :06:41.was some financial inducement, some secret bribes, that doesn't seem to
:06:42. > :06:46.be the case. You are not claiming that any more -- any more. Then you
:06:47. > :06:50.claimed it was a sweetheart deal for one company. That turns out not to
:06:51. > :06:57.be the case. What criticism are you left with on this Nissan deal? I
:06:58. > :07:03.would be really surprised if all that Nissan got was the reassurances
:07:04. > :07:08.that Greg Clark is shared with us. He didn't answer the question of
:07:09. > :07:11.what happens if we can't get continued tariff free access to the
:07:12. > :07:17.single market, if we are not within the single market or the Customs
:07:18. > :07:21.Union. Do you really think a negotiator like Nissan, who are very
:07:22. > :07:23.good at negotiating, they would have excepted making this significant
:07:24. > :07:29.investment without some further reassurances? Do you think there is
:07:30. > :07:35.some kind of financial bride and if so what is the evidence? I would
:07:36. > :07:40.like to see the letter published and I would also like to understand what
:07:41. > :07:45.would happen... There are 27 countries which need to agree with
:07:46. > :07:49.the deal we have from Brexit. What will Nissan, how will Nissan remain
:07:50. > :07:54.competitive? How will the automotive industry remain competitive? Greg
:07:55. > :07:58.Clark says he reassured them on that. But how will that be so if we
:07:59. > :08:07.do not get access? We haven't heard anything about that. He talks about
:08:08. > :08:11.reassurances given to Nissan. We need to make -- to know where we're
:08:12. > :08:15.going to make sure Brexit is in the interest of all workers, not only
:08:16. > :08:22.those who work for a Nissan and not only those who can get the attention
:08:23. > :08:25.of Greg Clark. He assured Nissan that Britain would remain a
:08:26. > :08:29.competitive place to do business. That was the main assurance he gave
:08:30. > :08:34.them. He would help with skills and infrastructure and all the rest
:08:35. > :08:38.Since you are -- intend to repeal the trade union laws that have made
:08:39. > :08:41.strikes in Britain largely a thing of the past, and you plan to raise
:08:42. > :08:46.corporation tax, you couldn't give Nissan the same assurance, could
:08:47. > :08:51.you? We could absolutely give Nissan the assurance that we will be, our
:08:52. > :08:55.vision of the future of the UK, is based on having a strong
:08:56. > :09:06.manufacturing sector. Repealing trade union laws? As we have seen at
:09:07. > :09:14.Nissan, the industrial sector is dependent on having highly trained,
:09:15. > :09:18.well skilled workers. -- highly skilled, well-trained. You don't
:09:19. > :09:22.have that by getting -- having an aggressive policy and trade union
:09:23. > :09:27.laws or by slashing corporation tax and not supporting manufacturing
:09:28. > :09:29.investment. Remember, the last government took away the
:09:30. > :09:35.Manufacturing allowances which supported Manufacturing and slashed
:09:36. > :09:38.corporation tax. That is their solution. It is a low tax, low skill
:09:39. > :09:43.economy they want. Thank you. Sorry I had to rush you.
:09:44. > :09:53.I'm grateful for you joining us I'm still struggling to see what is
:09:54. > :09:58.left of Labour's criticism? Yeah, except for this. This was a valid
:09:59. > :10:01.point she just made. What we know for sure is that Greg Clark could
:10:02. > :10:08.say to Nissan, my aim is to get tariff free deal. There is no way he
:10:09. > :10:12.could guarantee that. None of us know that. I don't think that was
:10:13. > :10:19.enough. I think clearly there was a more detailed package involving
:10:20. > :10:23.training and other things. He has acknowledged this, albeit we do not
:10:24. > :10:26.know the precise mechanism. What I think is interesting about this is
:10:27. > :10:29.if you reverse what happened this week, at a time when the government
:10:30. > :10:34.says Britain is open for business and it is going to have an
:10:35. > :10:38.industrial strategy, so far it is a bit vaguely defined. Nissan hadn't
:10:39. > :10:41.made this commitment. Imagine what would have happened? It is an
:10:42. > :10:48.impossible scenario. The government seems to me was obliged to make sure
:10:49. > :10:52.this didn't happen. Let's not forget Nissan has invested hundreds of
:10:53. > :10:56.millions in the north-east. It has been a huge success story. When I
:10:57. > :11:01.spoke to workers from Nissan, they were so proud because they went to
:11:02. > :11:04.Japan to teach the Japanese had to be more productive. The idea that
:11:05. > :11:08.Nissan was just going to walk away from this given its track record,
:11:09. > :11:14.its importance, wasn't really credible. The government had some
:11:15. > :11:18.bargaining chips. Absolutely, of course they weren't going to walk
:11:19. > :11:22.away. The majority of people in the area in which Nissan is braced -
:11:23. > :11:27.based, voted for Brexit. Nissan knows it is in a powerful position
:11:28. > :11:30.because it is an emotive sector Clearly the government didn't want
:11:31. > :11:37.to have some big showdown. I honestly don't think this is a
:11:38. > :11:39.smoking gun. The Labour Shadow minister really struggled to
:11:40. > :11:42.articulate what exactly she thinks the government is hiding. I think
:11:43. > :11:48.the reassurances were given were pretty anodyne, really. They were
:11:49. > :11:50.anodyne and general. And what Greg Clark was setting out was an
:11:51. > :11:55.objective and he made the right noises, and Nissan exercised its
:11:56. > :12:01.right to sabre rattle. It does have a history of doing that. The one
:12:02. > :12:04.thing that would now be clear given Greg Clark's performance this
:12:05. > :12:07.morning on the BBC, is that if we were to discover some kind of
:12:08. > :12:12.financial incentive directly linked to this investment, not more for
:12:13. > :12:17.skills or infrastructure, that is fine, but some direct financial
:12:18. > :12:19.investment, compensation for tariffs, which would be illegal
:12:20. > :12:25.under World Trade Organisation rules, what you might call a
:12:26. > :12:29.financial bride, the sect -- the business Secretary's position would
:12:30. > :12:33.be untenable? He would be in a very difficult position indeed. Just
:12:34. > :12:37.released the letter. There is nothing to hide. Put it out there.
:12:38. > :12:42.The most revealing thing is that people are getting wildly excited
:12:43. > :12:46.about the fact Greg Clark announced Britain's negotiating position would
:12:47. > :12:49.be that we would like tariff free trade with Europe. This is regarded
:12:50. > :12:52.as an insight into what this comment is doing and it says a great deal
:12:53. > :12:58.about how little we have been told in Parliament and the media about
:12:59. > :13:02.what they are up. Do you think it is exciting we are going for tariff
:13:03. > :13:09.free trade? We're easily excited these days. We don't know. This is
:13:10. > :13:13.where these things are at such a tentative phase. We don't know how
:13:14. > :13:19.the rest of the European Union is going to respond to Britain's
:13:20. > :13:24.negotiating hand. We know Britain once the best of everything, please.
:13:25. > :13:29.It is a starting point. But that is not how it is going to end up. We
:13:30. > :13:31.are getting wider than that. We have will have to see.
:13:32. > :13:34.Now, Universal Credit, a single payment made to welfare
:13:35. > :13:36.claimants that would roll together a plethora of benefits whilst
:13:37. > :13:39.encouraging people into work by making work pay.
:13:40. > :13:41.But have cuts to the flagship welfare scheme reduced work
:13:42. > :13:46.incentives and hit the incomes of the least well-off?
:13:47. > :13:49.Well, some of the government's own MPs think so, and,
:13:50. > :13:55.as Mark Lobel reports, want the cuts reversed.
:13:56. > :13:58.Theresa May says she wants a country that works
:13:59. > :14:02.for everyone, that's on the side of ordinary, working people.
:14:03. > :14:05.It means never writing off people who can work and consigning them
:14:06. > :14:08.to a life on benefits, but giving them the chance to go out
:14:09. > :14:11.and earn a living and to enjoy the dignity that comes
:14:12. > :14:18.But now some in her party are worried that the low earners
:14:19. > :14:22.will be hit by changes to Universal Credit benefit system
:14:23. > :14:24.originally set up to encourage more people into work.
:14:25. > :14:27.We also need to focus tax credits and Universal Credit
:14:28. > :14:34.Concern centred on the Government's decision in the July 2015 budget
:14:35. > :14:43.to find ?3 billion worth of savings from the Universal Credit bill.
:14:44. > :14:46.Conservative MP Heidi Allen is working on a campaign to get MPs
:14:47. > :14:54.in her party to urge the Prime Minister to think again.
:14:55. > :14:56.I want her to understand for herself what the outcomes might
:14:57. > :14:58.be if we press ahead with the Universal Credit,
:14:59. > :15:03.Do you think Theresa May, right now, understands what you understand
:15:04. > :15:05.To be fair, unless you really get into the detail,
:15:06. > :15:08.and I have through my work on the Work and Pensions
:15:09. > :15:10.Select Committee, I don't think anybody does.
:15:11. > :15:16.Independent economic analysts at the IFS agree with Heidi Alan
:15:17. > :15:20.that cuts to Universal Credit weaken incentives to work.
:15:21. > :15:22.One of the key parts of the Universal Credit system
:15:23. > :15:26.That is how much you can earn before your credit
:15:27. > :15:29.As the Government has sought to save money,
:15:30. > :15:31.both under the Coalition and now they Conservative Government,
:15:32. > :15:33.both under the Coalition and now the Conservative Government,
:15:34. > :15:36.that work allowance has been cut, time and time again.
:15:37. > :15:38.The biggest cuts happened in the summer budget of 2015.
:15:39. > :15:41.That basically reduces the amount of earnings you get to keep
:15:42. > :15:44.It weakens the incentive people have to move into work.
:15:45. > :15:46.What do changes to the Universal Credit system mean?
:15:47. > :15:50.The Resolution Foundation think tank has crunched the numbers.
:15:51. > :15:53.If you compare what would have happened before the July 2015 summer
:15:54. > :15:57.budget to what will happen by 2 20, even if you take into account gains
:15:58. > :15:59.in the National Living Wage and income tax cuts,
:16:00. > :16:04.recipients will be hit by annual deductions.
:16:05. > :16:08.Couples and parents would receive, on average, ?1000 less.
:16:09. > :16:09.A dual-earning couple with two children under four,
:16:10. > :16:12.with one partner working full-time on ?10.50 an hour and the other
:16:13. > :16:15.working part-time on the minimum wage for around 20
:16:16. > :16:23.hours a week, they would receive ?1800 less.
:16:24. > :16:25.Hit most by the changes would be a single parent
:16:26. > :16:27.with a child under four, working full-time
:16:28. > :16:40.I think, if I'm honest, it is unrealistic, given
:16:41. > :16:43.the economic climate, to expect everything to be reversed.
:16:44. > :16:49.What I would like to see is an increase in the work
:16:50. > :16:52.allowances to those people who will be hardest hit.
:16:53. > :16:55.That is single parents and second earners hoping to return to work,
:16:56. > :16:57.because they are the people we need to absolutely make
:16:58. > :17:02.The Sunday Politics understands that about 15 to 20 Conservative MPs
:17:03. > :17:06.are pushing for changes ahead of the Autumn Statement.
:17:07. > :17:09.A former cabinet minister told us that they believed further impact
:17:10. > :17:12.analysis should be done to find out if any mitigation measures
:17:13. > :17:18.Former Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith, an architect
:17:19. > :17:23.of the system, now says the cuts should be reversed.
:17:24. > :17:27.But his former department has told us that it has no plans to revisit
:17:28. > :17:32.the work allowance changes announced in the budget last year.
:17:33. > :17:36.What I would say to Heidi Allen and IDS, they got it right the first
:17:37. > :17:39.time and they should stick to the vote they cast last year
:17:40. > :17:40.because these reforms actually do make sense.
:17:41. > :17:43.What interests me is the fact we are trying to move people
:17:44. > :17:46.off welfare into work, we are raising the wages people
:17:47. > :17:48.earn by massively increasing the minimum wage and this
:17:49. > :17:52.People are coming off welfare and into work.
:17:53. > :17:55.Campaigners are pushing for savings to come from other areas to relieve
:17:56. > :18:00.The other thing we have to start looking at is the triple
:18:01. > :18:04.Financially it has been a great policy, and it was absolutely right
:18:05. > :18:06.that we lifted pensioners who were significantly behind,
:18:07. > :18:09.for many years, in terms of income levels, but they have
:18:10. > :18:14.I think it is time for us to look at that policy again,
:18:15. > :18:17.because is costing us an awful lot of money.
:18:18. > :18:19.With just over three weeks to wait until the Conservative leadership's
:18:20. > :18:23.new economic plan is unveiled in the Autumn Statement,
:18:24. > :18:26.its top team is under pressure from within its own ranks to use it
:18:27. > :18:35.And I'm joined now by former Work and Pensions Secretary,
:18:36. > :18:43.Welcome back to the programme. Theresa May said she is on the side
:18:44. > :18:49.of the just managing, the working poor. But they are about to be hit
:18:50. > :18:52.from all sides. Their modest living standards are going to be squeezed
:18:53. > :18:56.as inflation overtakes pay rises, they will be further squeezed
:18:57. > :18:59.because top-up benefits in work are frozen. Incentives to work are going
:19:00. > :19:04.to be reduced by the cuts in universal benefits. So much for
:19:05. > :19:09.being on the side of those just managing? Theresa was right to focus
:19:10. > :19:16.on this group. The definition has to be the bottom half, in economic
:19:17. > :19:20.terms, of the social structure. It doesn't look good for them? This is
:19:21. > :19:24.the point I am making, it is an opportunity to put some of this
:19:25. > :19:27.right. One of the reasons I resigned in March is because I felt the
:19:28. > :19:30.direction of travel we had been going in had been to take far too
:19:31. > :19:34.much money out of that group of people when there are other areas
:19:35. > :19:38.which, if you need to make some of those savings, you can. The key bit
:19:39. > :19:41.is that the group needs to be helped through into work and encouraged to
:19:42. > :19:46.stay in work. There was a report done with the IFS, when we were
:19:47. > :19:52.there, at Universal Credit. It said Universal Credit rolled out, as it
:19:53. > :19:55.should have been before the cuts, people would be much more likely to
:19:56. > :19:59.stay in work longer and earn more money. It is a net positive, but
:20:00. > :20:04.that is now called into question. Let's unpick some of the detail but
:20:05. > :20:07.first, do you accept the words of David Willets? It says on the basis
:20:08. > :20:14.of the things I read out to you that the just managing face a significant
:20:15. > :20:20.and painful cut in real terms if we continue on the way we are going. I
:20:21. > :20:28.do, in essence. That is the reason why I resigned. I felt Heidi raised
:20:29. > :20:31.that issue as well, that we got the balance wrong. It is right that
:20:32. > :20:35.pensioners get to a certain point, when they are on a level par, doing
:20:36. > :20:40.the right thing over five years Staying with that process has cost
:20:41. > :20:49.us ?18 billion extra this year, in total. It will go on costing another
:20:50. > :20:54.5 billion. Then there is the issue of tax allowances. I want to remind
:20:55. > :21:00.you and viewers what David Cameron told the Conservative conference in
:21:01. > :21:06.2009. If you are a single mother with two children, earning ?150 a
:21:07. > :21:09.week, the withdrawal of your benefits and the additional taxes
:21:10. > :21:17.that you pay me on that for every extra you earn, you keep just 4p.
:21:18. > :21:23.What kind of incentive is that? 30 years ago, this party won and
:21:24. > :21:32.election fighting against 98% tax rates for the Rex richest. I want us
:21:33. > :21:37.today to show even more anger about 96% tax rates for the very poorest
:21:38. > :21:43.in our country. Real anger, and effective rate of over 90%.
:21:44. > :21:47.Universal Credit reduces that. Some will still face, as they lose
:21:48. > :21:52.benefits and pay tax, a marginal rate of over 75%. That is still too
:21:53. > :21:57.high? Yes, it is the collision between those going into work at the
:21:58. > :22:01.moment they start paying tax. A racial Universal Credit is set at
:22:02. > :22:08.65%. You can call that the base marginal tax rate. 1.2 million will
:22:09. > :22:11.face 75%? That is the point about why the allowances are so important.
:22:12. > :22:15.The point about the allowances which viewers might not fully understand
:22:16. > :22:18.is that it was set, as part of Universal Credit, to allow you to
:22:19. > :22:22.get certain people, with certain difficulties, as they cross into
:22:23. > :22:29.work, to retain more benefit before it is tapered away as they go up in
:22:30. > :22:32.hours. A lone parent, who might have various issues, you want her to have
:22:33. > :22:36.a bigger incentive than a single person that does not have the same
:22:37. > :22:40.commitments. It is structured so that somebody who has difficulty
:22:41. > :22:43.going to work, they all have slightly different rates. What
:22:44. > :22:46.happened is that last year a decision was taken to reduce tax
:22:47. > :22:50.credits, and, on the back of that, to reduce allowances. I believe
:22:51. > :22:56.given everything that happened now, we need to restore that to the point
:22:57. > :22:59.where it helps those people crossing over. You say a decision was taken,
:23:00. > :23:04.it was a decision by the former Chancellor George Osborne in the
:23:05. > :23:08.summer budget. Other decisions were taken in successive Budgets to raise
:23:09. > :23:11.the Universal Credit budget, which resulted in the disincentive being
:23:12. > :23:17.higher than many people wanted. Do you accept that has been the
:23:18. > :23:19.consequence of his decisions? I was in the Government, we take
:23:20. > :23:23.collective responsibility. I argued this was not the right way to go,
:23:24. > :23:26.but when you are in you have to stay with it if you lose that argument.
:23:27. > :23:30.There was another attempt before the spending review last year to
:23:31. > :23:35.increase the taper, so the marginal rate would have gone up. I managed
:23:36. > :23:39.to stop that. I'm Sibley saying what we made as a decision last
:23:40. > :23:44.year, given the circumstances and given that the net effect of all of
:23:45. > :23:48.that, I think it is time for the Government to ask the question, if
:23:49. > :23:52.we are in this to help that group of people, Universal Credit is
:23:53. > :23:55.singularly the most powerful tool. One of the Argentine aid in the
:23:56. > :24:00.paper published on Thursday, we are set going on doing two more races of
:24:01. > :24:07.the tax threshold, taking more people out of tax. That has a
:24:08. > :24:12.diminishing effect on the bottom section. Only 25p in that tax rate
:24:13. > :24:17.will help any of those. Most of it goes to middle income? You and I
:24:18. > :24:21.will benefit more from that. With Universal Credit, every pound you
:24:22. > :24:24.put into that will go to the bottom five tenths. That is why I designed
:24:25. > :24:29.it like that. He pressed the button and immediately start to changed
:24:30. > :24:33.circumstances. Should the cuts in Universal Credit that Mr Osborne
:24:34. > :24:38.introduced, against your argument, should they be reversed? I believe
:24:39. > :24:41.so. I believe you can do it even if there is concern about spending I
:24:42. > :24:45.don't believe you need to go through with the continuing raise the tax
:24:46. > :24:53.threshold. Cost is dependent on inflation, but give or take. It is
:24:54. > :24:59.in the Tory manifesto? Has more than doubled. What is in the manifesto,
:25:00. > :25:04.and Lasse Prime Minister made this clear in conference, we want to
:25:05. > :25:08.improve the life chances of people. Today's announcement on the Green
:25:09. > :25:11.paper is what I wrote over the last two and a half years. Big changes
:25:12. > :25:15.necessary to how we deal with sickness benefit. That can now be
:25:16. > :25:19.done because of Universal Credit, because people can go back to work
:25:20. > :25:22.and it tapers away their benefits. It is the most powerful tool to sort
:25:23. > :25:28.our people that live in poverty Universal Credit. We need to make
:25:29. > :25:31.sure it lands positively. If Mr Osborne's cuts were reversed, what
:25:32. > :25:35.you and some of your backbench Tory colleagues want to do, how would
:25:36. > :25:42.that improve the incentives of the working poor, as they try to get on
:25:43. > :25:48.in life? They have to pay more tax, they lose some benefits. How would
:25:49. > :25:51.it improve it? Would many still face a 75% rate? The key question is
:25:52. > :25:57.first and foremost, as people move through income to the point where
:25:58. > :26:00.they are getting taxed, that group will be enormously benefited by the
:26:01. > :26:05.re-emergence of these allowances at the right level. That is what the
:26:06. > :26:10.IFS have said, that is what the Resolution Foundation are saying,
:26:11. > :26:13.and the Centre For Social Justice is saying. You have to get that group,
:26:14. > :26:18.because they are most likely to be drifting into poverty and less
:26:19. > :26:23.incomes are right. Would it help those who face a 75% margin? We
:26:24. > :26:28.don't face that. Exactly right. People much poorer than us do. I
:26:29. > :26:36.would love to get the marginal rate down to testify percent, and lower,.
:26:37. > :26:40.-- down to 65%. It is a balance of how you spend the money. I would
:26:41. > :26:47.prefer to do that rather than necessarily go ahead with threshold
:26:48. > :26:53.razors. I think the coronation of the marginal reduction of 65%,
:26:54. > :26:55.getting it down to 60%, plus more allowances, will allow Universal
:26:56. > :26:59.Credit to get to the group that is going to be, and the report written
:27:00. > :27:03.by the IFS and ourselves, it shows it is going to be the most dynamic
:27:04. > :27:07.and direct ability of a Government to be able to influence the way that
:27:08. > :27:14.people improve their incomes in the bottom five deciles. Would you take
:27:15. > :27:20.on extra work if you knew you were going to lose 75% of it? Even 6 %?
:27:21. > :27:25.This has been my argument all along. Universal Credit can help that
:27:26. > :27:30.enormously. One point that goes missing, 70% of the bottom five
:27:31. > :27:32.deciles will be on Universal Credit. Whatever change you make to
:27:33. > :27:39.Universal Credit has a dramatic and immediate effect I am arguing,
:27:40. > :27:42.genuinely, it is time to rethink this. The Prime Minister wants to
:27:43. > :27:46.make this a priority. I am completely with her on this. I think
:27:47. > :27:52.she made a really good start. To deliver this, we need to... You have
:27:53. > :27:55.a lot of work to do to deliver it. Because it is a manifesto
:27:56. > :28:01.commitment, or because they want to do it, stopping increasing the
:28:02. > :28:03.personal allowances are not acceptable, what about bringing to
:28:04. > :28:09.an end, by the end of the parliament, the pension triple lock
:28:10. > :28:15.that pensioners enjoy to improve and put more money to the working poor?
:28:16. > :28:20.What about that? Well, you are absolutely right that there is now
:28:21. > :28:22.the danger, I think, of a mess balance between the generations
:28:23. > :28:26.Quite rightly at the beginning, when we came in, we have a commitment as
:28:27. > :28:33.a Conservative Party in a manifesto to get pensions back onto earnings.
:28:34. > :28:38.It was moved to a triple lock that guaranteed a minimum. What about
:28:39. > :28:42.ending up now? I understand it is a promise through the Parliament, but
:28:43. > :28:45.after 2020? I am in favour of getting it back to innings and
:28:46. > :28:50.allowing it to rise at reasonable levels. Moving from earnings to the
:28:51. > :28:54.triple lock has cost ?18 billion this year. Here was a high, under
:28:55. > :28:58.pressure, as the Government was scratching around to pay more money
:28:59. > :29:02.out of working age areas, when the budget was almost out of control on
:29:03. > :29:06.the pension side. I'm in favour of helping pensioners, but now they are
:29:07. > :29:09.up to a reasonable level, at a steady rate, that can be afforded by
:29:10. > :29:14.Government, which takes the pressure off, working age people have to pay
:29:15. > :29:26.for that. In years to come, time to end the triple lock
:29:27. > :29:30.and use the savings to help these people we have been talking about?
:29:31. > :29:32.As part of a load of packages, yes. It would also help with the
:29:33. > :29:35.intergenerational fairness argument. Thank you for being with us.
:29:36. > :29:37.Now, a prominent London Imam called Shakeel Begg -
:29:38. > :29:40.who is Chief Imam the Lewisham Islamic Centre - is an extremist.
:29:41. > :29:43.That was the verdict of the judge in a libel action that Mr Begg took
:29:44. > :29:46.against the BBC, after we described him as an Islamic extremist
:29:47. > :29:50.Mr Begg had complained about a short segment in an interview in November
:29:51. > :29:53.2013 with Farooq Murad, the then head of the Muslim Council
:29:54. > :29:55.of Britain, an organisation which claims to represent British
:29:56. > :30:01.In that interview, we described Mr Begg as an extremist speaker
:30:02. > :30:04.who had hailed jihad is the greatest of deeds.
:30:05. > :30:08.From his base of the Lewisham Islamic Centre, Mr Begg has been
:30:09. > :30:11.involved in a number of community organisations, including
:30:12. > :30:14.the Police Independent Advisory Group in Lewisham,
:30:15. > :30:19.Lewisham Council's Advisory Council on Religious Education
:30:20. > :30:22.and as a volunteer chaplain at Lewisham Hospital.
:30:23. > :30:27.But in his judgment, Mr Justice Haddon-Cave called
:30:28. > :30:30.Mr Begg a Jekyll and Hyde character - a trusted figure in his local
:30:31. > :30:33.community, but when talking to predominantly Muslim audiences
:30:34. > :30:38.he shed the cloak of respectability and revealed the horns of extremism.
:30:39. > :30:41.The judge cited one speech made by Mr Begg at a rally
:30:42. > :30:44.outside Belmarsh Prisonm- the high security prison that houses
:30:45. > :30:47.terrorists - as particularly sinister.
:30:48. > :30:50.The judge said the imam was expressing admiration and praise
:30:51. > :30:56.Following Friday's judgment, the hospital trust have told us that
:30:57. > :31:00.Mr Begg's status as a voluntary chaplain has been terminated.
:31:01. > :31:04.We have been told by Lewisham Council he is no longer
:31:05. > :31:05.on their Religious Education Committee.
:31:06. > :31:07.The Metropolitan Police have confirmed that
:31:08. > :31:12.Mr Begg remains a member of their Independent Advisory Group
:31:13. > :31:22.in Lewisham, as well as the borough's faith group.
:31:23. > :31:26.I am joined by Haras Rafiq, chief executive of the Quilliam
:31:27. > :31:33.Foundation. Welcome to the programme. I have here in my hand a
:31:34. > :31:39.statement from the trustees of the Lewisham Islamic Centre. They reject
:31:40. > :31:41.the judge's ruling as fanciful and say they are unequivocal and
:31:42. > :31:48.unwavering in their support of Shakeel Begg as their head imam
:31:49. > :31:52.What do you make of that? To be honest, it doesn't surprise me. At
:31:53. > :31:56.the end of the day he is only the imam of that mosque because he
:31:57. > :32:02.belongs to the same theological fundamentalist views that the mosque
:32:03. > :32:07.would portray. If they were to say he was an extremist, they would be
:32:08. > :32:10.saying in fact that they have allowed extremist preaching and
:32:11. > :32:15.extremist theology within their walls. I think this is a very
:32:16. > :32:22.important decision and a very important judgment by the judge
:32:23. > :32:27.First of all, these people like to operate in a linear, under a veneer
:32:28. > :32:31.of respectability. When that veneer is taken away, there are a number of
:32:32. > :32:35.things that can happen. First of all, the BBC did very well to stand
:32:36. > :32:42.by their guns and say, we're not going to be intimidated by somebody
:32:43. > :32:46.who is threatening to taking -- to take us to court for potential
:32:47. > :32:51.libel. Many other media companies have done that in the past and
:32:52. > :32:57.people have capitulated. Also, this has exposed him. Legally now, here's
:32:58. > :33:00.some deal can be classified as an extremist preacher, somebody who
:33:01. > :33:04.promotes religious violence. I think the mosque really needs to take a
:33:05. > :33:08.step back and say, how we part of the problem that we are facing
:33:09. > :33:17.within society? Or are we going to be part of the solution? It really
:33:18. > :33:22.concerns me. The High Court judge says that Mr Begg's speeches were
:33:23. > :33:29.consistent with an extremist Salafist is the most worldview. What
:33:30. > :33:39.is Salafist is and how widespread is it in UK mosques? -- mosque. It
:33:40. > :33:42.comes from the Middle East. It is from Saudi Arabia. The enemy for
:33:43. > :33:51.them was the old colonial Ottoman Empire. There is the quiet Salafist
:33:52. > :33:54.to get some with their lives, lives outside society. There is a
:33:55. > :33:57.revolutionary who tries to convert other people to their worldview And
:33:58. > :34:05.then there is the Salafist jihad ease. People like Islamic State etc.
:34:06. > :34:08.We have seen of increased in recent decades because of money that has,
:34:09. > :34:13.growing from the Middle East. When that is mixed with a political
:34:14. > :34:17.ideology, it becomes potent. Do we have a political -- particular
:34:18. > :34:23.problem in Britain with this in our mosques? Absolutely. Without the
:34:24. > :34:26.theology that says hate the other, hate other Muslims, that
:34:27. > :34:31.excommunicate other people, that says it is OK to fight and is good
:34:32. > :34:35.to fight when you have got an enemy, we wouldn't really have a jihadi
:34:36. > :34:43.problem. Really that is something we have to tackle. The number of
:34:44. > :34:48.mosques and institutions supporting Salafist and Islam is has been on
:34:49. > :34:53.the increase. Do we have a problem with what the judge called Jekyll
:34:54. > :34:59.and Hyde characters who hide their extremism except when they are
:35:00. > :35:03.speaking to specific groups? Absolutely. One of the things we
:35:04. > :35:08.have focused on in the past, a number of hate preachers now in
:35:09. > :35:11.prison, people like Anjem Choudary, and everybody focused on them. But
:35:12. > :35:15.there is a range of people operating under that level. People who will
:35:16. > :35:20.show one face to the community because they actually need that for
:35:21. > :35:24.a respectability. They need that for a legitimacy. They need that to
:35:25. > :35:28.operate. When they are behind closed doors and talking to their
:35:29. > :35:33.constitution, that is when you will see the real face of what these
:35:34. > :35:37.people believe. It is an increasing phenomenon. We are seeing it more.
:35:38. > :35:45.And we're going to carry on seeing it. Not just has the Lewisham mosque
:35:46. > :35:49.stuck by him, but given the clarity of the judge's ruling, are you
:35:50. > :35:53.surprised that the Metropolitan police would wish to continue with
:35:54. > :35:56.Mr Begg as an adviser? I'm absolutely shocked that that
:35:57. > :36:02.decision. What Uzzy going to do Advise them on how to deal with
:36:03. > :36:05.extremist preachers and promote religiously motivated violence? I
:36:06. > :36:11.don't know what he's going to advise them on. Because we now have a judge
:36:12. > :36:13.that has ruled against him and actually classified him as an
:36:14. > :36:18.extremist and somebody who promotes religious violence, we actually have
:36:19. > :36:24.a possibility for the CPS to actually prosecute him. There is a
:36:25. > :36:26.law that has been in place since 2005 called religiously motivated
:36:27. > :36:32.violence. If he has been classified as somebody who promotes this, there
:36:33. > :36:36.is a potential for the CPS to prosecute. I want to called into
:36:37. > :36:39.question other organisations, interfaith organisations, other
:36:40. > :36:46.Muslims groups, who say they want to fight extremism, I call on them to
:36:47. > :36:55.say, this guy is an extremist preacher, we should cut our ties
:36:56. > :36:59.from him. This was a very high risk strategy by the BBC. The exposure
:37:00. > :37:05.could have been over ?1.5 million of licence payers money. Will this make
:37:06. > :37:11.it more difficult for Jekyll and Hyde characters to behave as Mr Begg
:37:12. > :37:15.has behaved? Absolutely. It will do. One of the things they will now have
:37:16. > :37:22.to make sure is that they are a lot more careful. Careful with what they
:37:23. > :37:26.say to their own constituency. It won't solve the theological problem.
:37:27. > :37:31.But it will actually stop other people from operating in this manner
:37:32. > :37:34.and allow other media organisations to have the confidence to expose
:37:35. > :37:37.them when they do. Haras Rafiq, thank you for joining us.
:37:38. > :37:39.It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:37:40. > :37:42.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:37:43. > :37:53.Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead.
:37:54. > :37:57.Welcome to Sunday politics in the West.
:37:58. > :38:20.The citizens trying to help refugees cleared from the camp in Fr`nce
:38:21. > :38:22.A few dozen children have been given sanctuary
:38:23. > :38:23.in the West but there are
:38:24. > :38:28.Here's a clue, we're talking about the US
:38:29. > :38:30.election and who this wild West is supporting.
:38:31. > :38:33.Hoping this is a place of s`fety for their 20 minutes are two
:38:34. > :38:36.West Country politicians, Hdlen Hims is the chairman of Ukip in Somerset
:38:37. > :38:39.In her spare time she runs ` garage business and Simon Hoare has been
:38:40. > :38:42.the MP for North Dorset since last year's general election.
:38:43. > :38:44.I have no idea what he does in his spare time.
:38:45. > :38:55.I want to talk about Brexit first of all.
:38:56. > :38:58.Which side of the Brexit cohn are you on, hard or soft?
:38:59. > :39:01.soft on this site which givds the best deal for Britain so I think
:39:02. > :39:02.these artificial distinctions of hard, soft,
:39:03. > :39:05.The government has been very clear and
:39:06. > :39:08.The British people have taken this decision.
:39:09. > :39:19.We're going to abide by it and deliver
:39:20. > :39:21.the best deal and have some very tough decisions
:39:22. > :39:25.partners to make sure we get the best deal possible for British
:39:26. > :39:47.You know whether we stay inside the internal
:39:48. > :39:51.What I know the stages that we are fairly time in
:39:52. > :39:55.the negotiations of the govdrnment is working out what of any red line
:39:56. > :39:59.First of we have to see when we start these negotiations
:40:00. > :40:02.where there are points of ghve and take on both
:40:03. > :40:04.sides of the negotiation table and work out
:40:05. > :40:05.if what is on offer is the
:40:06. > :40:09.If we take a decision that it is not as a
:40:10. > :40:12.government we will have to go back and rethink and then come b`ck with
:40:13. > :40:47.clear it involves leaving the single market and get
:40:48. > :40:58.and our laws and everything and the single murky it would bd a big
:40:59. > :41:01.mistake if they went back into that because all the regulations and laws
:41:02. > :41:03.would apply to us and we would still have
:41:04. > :41:05.to pay the same amount and in a
:41:06. > :41:12.way it would be like shackling ourselves.
:41:13. > :41:27.Yes, outside the single market. He said it was a very clear decision
:41:28. > :41:31.but in fact it was 52% to
:41:32. > :41:40.What are saying is when people were voting to leave the understood,
:41:41. > :41:43.I think, that leaving meant leaving the single market as well as the
:41:44. > :41:47.To thousands it might not have meant that at all.
:41:48. > :41:49.How do you know that wasn't on the ballot paper?
:41:50. > :41:52.David Cameron was quite cle`r very shortly before the
:41:53. > :41:54.referendum that if we voted for Brexit that would also dntail
:41:55. > :41:58.But just days of campaigning left in the US
:41:59. > :42:01.It is an election that has been dominated by
:42:02. > :42:03.the smears and personal attacks and
:42:04. > :42:06.So how do Americans living here in the West
:42:07. > :42:13.Its culture seeps into ours more than
:42:14. > :42:17.But where elections are concerned the 2016 addition has been
:42:18. > :42:23.He hasn't paid a dime in federal income taxes for 20
:42:24. > :42:26.Did you know that over 5000 Americans in our
:42:27. > :42:30.So where better to assess how our American chums now living
:42:31. > :42:32.here in the West feel about Trump versus
:42:33. > :42:36.MUSIC: Back in the USa by Chuck Berry
:42:37. > :42:38.Meet Maya a student, Jonath`n, a lawyer and Hannah, a
:42:39. > :42:59.All members of the Americans in Bristol Facebook group.
:43:00. > :43:05.Do you mind if I give my ophnion a little bit as to the factors that
:43:06. > :43:09.Where I am from, Ithaca, it is a very small
:43:10. > :43:13.town that you go half an outside of it and you're in the
:43:14. > :43:16.middle of the country and it is very Republican in the think a lot of
:43:17. > :43:19.those people who live out there feel like they are not being represented
:43:20. > :43:26.by the people in Washington and they feel like they have complained for
:43:27. > :43:28.years and they had this antiestablishment message drummed
:43:29. > :43:35.into the head and here comes Trump and I think that is where a lot of
:43:36. > :43:39.The fact that Hillary is a woman is why they are
:43:40. > :43:42.bringing into question so mtch for personality and things like that
:43:43. > :43:44.because if you look at the polls and staff
:43:45. > :43:45.she was really popular when
:43:46. > :43:48.she had no power but I think honestly some people in America is
:43:49. > :43:51.still not comfortable with having a woman with the country whhch is so
:43:52. > :43:55.My view of Donald Trump as presidential candidate is that he
:43:56. > :43:57.does not actually have any core political convictions.
:43:58. > :43:59.I think that he is nothing more than a narcissist
:44:00. > :44:02.and an opportunist who was given tremendous resources to indtlge
:44:03. > :44:05.himself and know somehow matched his own surprise as as in a property
:44:06. > :44:09.His face smeared on a wall in Bristol
:44:10. > :44:11.that it is hard finding Don`ld Trump supporters round here.
:44:12. > :44:13.Even amongst those on the right of the politic`l
:44:14. > :44:16.When Ukip leader Nigel Farage defended his lewd comments
:44:17. > :44:24.William Dartmouth. rebuke from his own site West MEP,
:44:25. > :44:27.Nigel is the present leader of Ukip and when he
:44:28. > :44:29.speaks it will be supposed to speak to the party.
:44:30. > :44:32.On this matter he does not should not and cannot.
:44:33. > :44:34.Jacob Rees-Mogg is another who had Peasley
:44:35. > :44:37.said he would vote Republic`n if he was a US citizen
:44:38. > :44:41.In the normal course of events I would thought for the
:44:42. > :44:43.Republican candidate who happen to be Donald Trulp.
:44:44. > :44:44.The tape-recording that camd out was extremely
:44:45. > :44:46.disagreeable in a would find it not possible
:44:47. > :44:48.to vote for somebody who
:44:49. > :45:01.Obviously the candidates ard very busy at campaigning and too busy to
:45:02. > :45:03.join us but there is this very uncanny resemblance
:45:04. > :45:08.Are you really going to build a wall?
:45:09. > :45:10.DONALD TRUMP: We will build a great wall
:45:11. > :45:14.Hard to find, Pete says, Trump supporters in the
:45:15. > :45:17.Has it find any in the studio, Hannah?
:45:18. > :45:32.--I'm not a Trump supporter, I think both candidates, to be fair,
:45:33. > :45:37.and staunch libertarian, I would find it impossible to support
:45:38. > :45:40.Hillary Clinton's stance on big governments and state regul`tion and
:45:41. > :45:42.high taxes and socialism and I would find very difficult
:45:43. > :45:44.That's before we even start to talk about her globalist ambitions.
:45:45. > :45:46.She could hardly be described as a socialist.
:45:47. > :45:48.Her policies are very left of centre.
:45:49. > :45:59.them? you would not fought for either of
:46:00. > :46:05.I would have to hold my nose and vote vote
:46:06. > :46:07.for Donald Trump because his policies are more in line whth my
:46:08. > :46:21.I don't like some of his policies and don't like
:46:22. > :46:24.I find myself saying something I thought I would
:46:25. > :46:27.I think I would be abstaining in this election.
:46:28. > :46:29.This is really the best of @merica can
:46:30. > :46:31.produce from the two large parties and put
:46:32. > :46:50.before the people it is
:46:51. > :46:55.a fear the something the back of my head would say that if 200 people
:46:56. > :46:57.took that view you might find Mr Trump sneaking
:46:58. > :47:23.in through the back door so holding my nose and cupphng
:47:24. > :47:33.my eyes to the polling station and finds a
:47:34. > :47:37.Nevertheless do you admire hn some ways their system?
:47:38. > :47:40.When you think we have Theresa May who nobody
:47:41. > :47:43.here has voted for and I know we have a different system that is a
:47:44. > :47:46.Parliamentary system but at least they go through those enormous
:47:47. > :47:48.rigours and American people don t have someone they have never heard
:47:49. > :48:23.He was on the ticket and became president without
:48:24. > :48:25.having been directly elected as president so I'm not
:48:26. > :48:27.entirely sure it is a case of apples and oranges.
:48:28. > :48:30.I think the American system is unfit for purpose with the electoral
:48:31. > :48:32.college and you bought for the person.
:48:33. > :48:37.I don't think it is particularly healthy.
:48:38. > :48:39.The amount of money that candidates are allowed to
:48:40. > :48:41.spend I think this starts the whole system.
:48:42. > :48:50.democratic problem was somebody who has not got
:48:51. > :49:07.We would party elected to government just over a year ago
:49:08. > :49:10.and she stood on the same manifesto is added.
:49:11. > :49:15.former power minister resigned. the
:49:16. > :49:27.We went through a process and she came
:49:28. > :49:32.clamouring for her general dlection are questioning her legitim`cy to be
:49:33. > :49:35.Let's talk about either Clinton or Trump and the effect thex
:49:36. > :49:37.might have on us in the West Country.
:49:38. > :49:40.There's a possibility that would be more favourable to Britain
:49:41. > :49:42.He is certainly talking about free trade
:49:43. > :49:48.One thing that bothers me a lot about the Clinton as her
:49:49. > :49:52.She did a speech to Wall Street investment bank is
:49:53. > :49:55.back in 2013 pushes said her vision was for a hemispheric common murky
:49:56. > :49:58.Effectively that means that the whole of the Western Helisphere
:49:59. > :50:01.really would have a kind of common murky situation and she was
:50:02. > :50:03.vehemently opposed to Brexit as was Obama
:50:04. > :50:04.and that was not just because
:50:05. > :50:07.of this and that was becausd that is one of the building blocks.
:50:08. > :50:11.Effectively that means that the whole of the Western Helisphere
:50:12. > :50:14.really would have a kind of common murky situation and she was
:50:15. > :50:16.vehemently opposed to Brexit as was Obama
:50:17. > :50:17.and that was not just because
:50:18. > :50:20.of this and that was becausd that is one of the building blocks.
:50:21. > :50:23.Is it true that of Mr Trump gets in, it
:50:24. > :50:27.does not look as if he's gohng to, but if he does, it might be easier
:50:28. > :50:28.for our negotiators to go to Washington
:50:29. > :50:31.and get a deal that benefits us in the West
:50:32. > :50:32.Country and the rest of the
:50:33. > :50:35.No, thank fundamentally Trump is an inward
:50:36. > :50:36.looking protectionist which I think is bad
:50:37. > :50:38.for a global politics of
:50:39. > :50:42.But I think if we have seen logjam between the house of
:50:43. > :50:44.representatives and the Sen`te and the White House he wantdd seen
:50:45. > :50:47.If you are to have Trump White House.
:50:48. > :50:49.One cannot envisage Congress or the Senate
:50:50. > :50:54.will be here is a maverick and that is how he has he
:50:55. > :50:57.will be shouting a similar White House at the walls of the Oval
:50:58. > :51:00.Office by himself with absolute logjam in the rest of the government
:51:01. > :51:02.No, thank fundamentally Trump is an inward
:51:03. > :51:04.looking protectionist which I think is bad
:51:05. > :51:05.for a global politics of
:51:06. > :51:09.But I think if we have seen logjam between the house of
:51:10. > :51:12.representatives and the Sen`te and the White House he wantdd seen
:51:13. > :51:15.If you are to have Trump White House.
:51:16. > :51:16.One cannot envisage Congress or the Senate
:51:17. > :51:21.will be here is a maverick and that is how he has he
:51:22. > :51:24.will be shouting a similar White House at the walls of the Oval
:51:25. > :51:27.Office by himself with absolute logjam in the rest of the government
:51:28. > :51:30.As the Calais refugees camp was demolished this
:51:31. > :51:33.past week a few of the children who've been stuck there for months
:51:34. > :51:36.We're taking some of the most vulnerable
:51:37. > :51:39.and some youngsters your falily here would you be prepared to help?
:51:40. > :51:41.Would you open up your home to a refugee
:51:42. > :51:44.More than 150 Bristolians h`ve signed up to faster and mord
:51:45. > :51:49.A group of volunteers are on their way
:51:50. > :51:52.to help in the Cali camp known as the Jungle.
:51:53. > :51:54.Conditions that have been rdported to me over the grim
:51:55. > :51:57.and oppressing and the refugees are really down at heel murder wondering
:51:58. > :52:02.Thousands of people were bussed out as demolition work began
:52:03. > :52:05.this week but that is real concern still about the thousand or so
:52:06. > :52:07.unaccompanied children who have been living here.
:52:08. > :52:09.Some have been transferred to the UK because they
:52:10. > :52:12.have family here because we have committed to taking some of the most
:52:13. > :52:15.The charities say more need to be done.
:52:16. > :52:17.Need to keep up pressure on the government.
:52:18. > :52:19.We have seen some good things from the
:52:20. > :52:22.government in terms of the promises and we need to hold them to account
:52:23. > :52:26.and say we have promised to welcome some of those children and let's
:52:27. > :52:29.The second thing is that actually people have become
:52:30. > :52:30.foster carers so we're willing to make this
:52:31. > :52:32.capacity in the system to
:52:33. > :52:35.We have seen such a great response from people saying
:52:36. > :52:43.How soon could somebody moving, do you think?
:52:44. > :52:48.She is one of 150 Bristolians signed up with Home for
:52:49. > :52:50.Good to foster children from the camps.
:52:51. > :52:52.More than 1000 people have signed up across the West Country.
:52:53. > :52:54.It is a very big undertaking but I think
:52:55. > :52:57.with love and care and friendship anything can be accomplished.
:52:58. > :52:59.But she is frustrated at how long it is
:53:00. > :53:03.They asked for people to cole forward so good will is there
:53:04. > :53:06.and people's good will is there and sometimes it can become is a bit
:53:07. > :53:09.The council say they are committed to
:53:10. > :53:11.taking Bristol 's fair shard of Anaconda children.
:53:12. > :53:13.Furthermore than 50 being looked after here were some
:53:14. > :53:17.We don't think it is suffichent to cover the total cost so we're
:53:18. > :53:20.preparing work for the council cabinet to consider in terms of what
:53:21. > :53:23.Clearly we want to make sure that that is no
:53:24. > :53:26.additional pressure on the council budget so we will continue to work
:53:27. > :53:30.Three of the children came from Cali just last
:53:31. > :53:31.capacity in the system to
:53:32. > :53:34.We have seen such a great response from people saying
:53:35. > :53:42.How soon could somebody moving, do you think?
:53:43. > :53:47.She is one of 150 Bristolians signed up with Home for
:53:48. > :53:49.Good to foster children from the camps.
:53:50. > :53:51.More than 1000 people have signed up across the West Country.
:53:52. > :53:53.It is a very big undertaking but I think
:53:54. > :53:56.with love and care and friendship anything can be accomplished.
:53:57. > :53:58.But she is frustrated at how long it is
:53:59. > :54:02.They asked for people to cole forward so good will is there
:54:03. > :54:05.and people's good will is there and sometimes it can become is a bit
:54:06. > :54:08.The council say they are committed to
:54:09. > :54:10.taking Bristol 's fair shard of Anaconda children.
:54:11. > :54:12.Furthermore than 50 being looked after here were some
:54:13. > :54:16.We don't think it is suffichent to cover the total cost so we're
:54:17. > :54:19.preparing work for the council cabinet to consider in terms of what
:54:20. > :54:22.Clearly we want to make sure that that is no
:54:23. > :54:25.additional pressure on the council budget so we will continue to work
:54:26. > :54:29.Three of the children came from Calais just last
:54:30. > :54:30.week because they were so vulnerable.
:54:31. > :54:37.People wanted us to go to C`li and identify children and khnd
:54:38. > :54:39.of pick them up and bring them to Bristol.
:54:40. > :54:42.It is very complicated and other legal processes around how we assess
:54:43. > :54:45.young people and children and we must follow the law.
:54:46. > :54:47.We must make sure these children are safer for
:54:48. > :54:49.the goal and just blocking somebody out without thinking through the
:54:50. > :54:51.implications may not be the best thing.
:54:52. > :54:52.I notice frustrating and I
:54:53. > :54:55.know that everybody is restricted because of the scale of thesuffering
:54:56. > :54:58.being so great but making stre we get the solution is right is very
:54:59. > :55:00.important and that is what take some time.
:55:01. > :55:05.The Calais camp may have gone but the crisis is not.
:55:06. > :55:08.With us is one of those who went to Calais to help.
:55:09. > :55:10.You saw him in the film, Richard Annandale.
:55:11. > :55:13.How many times have you been to Calais?
:55:14. > :55:16.What have you seen in terms of children there?
:55:17. > :55:19.I've seen quite a few children who are sometimes well lookdd
:55:20. > :55:22.wild because the French authorities have
:55:23. > :55:41.They got their two summer pollen journeys.
:55:42. > :55:44.When you're ten rate you do not go off by
:55:45. > :55:47.By themselves or small groups and sometimes setting off
:55:48. > :55:50.with families and family melbers have died in the way.
:55:51. > :55:52.That is a report from Unicef cold neither safe
:55:53. > :55:55.nor sound from June of this year which people to read to unddrstand
:55:56. > :55:59.What sort of numbers would you like to see?
:56:00. > :56:02.The number of the film is a good number,
:56:03. > :56:05.The local authorities around the country when I last saw
:56:06. > :56:07.the figures last week, there were 44 local
:56:08. > :56:09.authorities who had committed to over 3000
:56:10. > :56:10.of these children, which
:56:11. > :56:13.If you existed poorer than that another 64 and thdn
:56:14. > :56:15.another because the queue is almost endless.
:56:16. > :56:16.That is not a queue, there is
:56:17. > :56:18.a cut-off for children who are coming under
:56:19. > :56:21.what is known as the Dubs l`w, section 67 of the immigration act.
:56:22. > :56:23.a cut-off for children who are coming under
:56:24. > :56:26.what is known as the Dubs l`w, section 67 of the immigration act.
:56:27. > :56:31.Children's after that shouldn't be able to come
:56:32. > :56:34.over unless they have close family here and then they are entitled to.
:56:35. > :56:41.I think we are actually doing quite a lot.
:56:42. > :56:43.Last year we took I think 11,000 asylum seekers.
:56:44. > :56:46.system at a cost of ?7,000 per application.
:56:47. > :56:48.We are talking specifically about children in
:56:49. > :56:52.We have agreed, haven't we, to take a few hundred child refugees
:56:53. > :56:57.I think it is the right thing to think you are
:56:58. > :57:00.quite right, David, when you see Ashley a few
:57:01. > :57:03.camp and the UK, very shortly within a few weeks it
:57:04. > :57:09.I think the first thing we have to do is get peace and
:57:10. > :57:12.for people who are fleeing desperate situations.
:57:13. > :57:15.Clearly the British government has I think
:57:16. > :57:19.stepped up to the plate, both in terms of providing a vast alount of
:57:20. > :57:20.humanitarian aid down the ground source.
:57:21. > :57:21.What should we accept from
:57:22. > :57:27.David, I think you made a point and Mike from Bristol City
:57:28. > :57:29.Council earlier made the point as well,
:57:30. > :57:30.the Dubs amendment gave the
:57:31. > :57:34.We know the sort of numbers were talking about and I
:57:35. > :57:35.think the figures we are working to regard
:57:36. > :57:37.to the Home Office is the
:57:38. > :57:41.And where do you stop in thd broad moral debate is a very
:57:42. > :57:45.I'm a husband and a father and my heart goes out to
:57:46. > :57:49.That is Mike was seen in the film it is not
:57:50. > :57:53.difficult areas and bringing children then, we need to m`ke sure
:57:54. > :57:56.that they are OK and more importantly we have to make sure
:57:57. > :57:59.that where they are being house is also safe and secure.
:58:00. > :58:01.You accept that point, you just can't pluck
:58:02. > :58:05.If I can just tell your viewers and also leads to
:58:06. > :58:07.people that the UK Government committed 40 months ago with the
:58:08. > :58:08.French government, signed an agreement,
:58:09. > :58:11.people that the UK Government committed 40 months ago with the
:58:12. > :58:12.French government, signed an agreement,
:58:13. > :58:13.that they would take all
:58:14. > :58:16.the vulnerable people including children out of the camp to places
:58:17. > :58:18.of safety in the 540 months to do that.
:58:19. > :58:21.You just look at the television pictures and the Facebook
:58:22. > :58:24.pictures this week and are ` lot of children still in the company should
:58:25. > :58:29.That is I think a few polithcians dipping in necessarily
:58:30. > :58:32.The problem is that not enough foster parents in
:58:33. > :58:34.the West Country for children at the moment
:58:35. > :58:36.and at a school places and so
:58:37. > :58:39.It is all very well saying come on in.
:58:40. > :58:43.It is practical to bring the might of the camping
:58:44. > :58:46.Calais and if you look at the conditions they were appalling.
:58:47. > :58:48.They need to be put into alternative accommodation this country `nd
:58:49. > :58:52.during that time for the next five or six months foster carers need to
:58:53. > :58:54.be found and there are plenty of foster carers.
:58:55. > :58:57.So you had a group of children here and then became clear
:58:58. > :58:59.that actually they had brothers and sisters elsewhere who wdre also
:59:00. > :59:01.be entitled to come and perhaps parents
:59:02. > :59:04.and uncles and so on, then the numbers do get
:59:05. > :59:08.They have to make an application and the after
:59:09. > :59:10.saving close family members here and this is a regulation goes
:59:11. > :59:12.back three years and the UK Government should
:59:13. > :59:16.You can't separate charge from his mum and dad, could
:59:17. > :59:20.I personally think we be focusing our efforts on the cards in
:59:21. > :59:22.Syria and just outside Syri` where we have committed somd 20 000.
:59:23. > :59:26.Counting 12 or three, what do you think?
:59:27. > :59:31.We are talking here about pdople not gesture politics.
:59:32. > :59:34.To talk about gestures, I think diminishes the skill of the problem.
:59:35. > :59:38.If you look at the United N`tions figures as I understand, thdre are
:59:39. > :59:40.about 32 million people across the surface of the globe who are
:59:41. > :59:42.technically under the legal definition refugees.
:59:43. > :59:45.We know it is a big problem but our time is up.
:59:46. > :59:47.And we know they're human bdings as
:59:48. > :59:57.With news of what has happened in the last week in
:59:58. > :00:00.Karen Smith has become the second Bristol Labour MP
:00:01. > :00:04.She had criticised Jeremy Corbyn but following his
:00:05. > :00:09.Plans by two of Somerset to merge are facing a legal challengd.
:00:10. > :00:12.councillors believe that residents have not been properly
:00:13. > :00:14.consulted or the link with West Somerset.
:00:15. > :00:16.There is a clear common law requirement
:00:17. > :00:18.And duty that the consultathon is to occur on
:00:19. > :00:20.Yet another big infrastructure projects
:00:21. > :00:24.The cost of a Bristol 's new Metro bus transport
:00:25. > :00:25.system scheme has risen by over ?12 million
:00:26. > :00:27.and two councillors from the
:00:28. > :00:29.West have been named as amongst the best.
:00:30. > :00:33.Dean and Jo Roundell Greene of South Somerset are finalhsts in
:00:34. > :00:36.I feel very humbled by the whole thing
:00:37. > :00:39.that somebody, I don't know who has nominated me for this award.
:00:40. > :00:44.The Sunday politics continues with Andrew Neil.
:00:45. > :00:46.If you want to get in touch with your
:00:47. > :00:55.comments and stories, we are all still it did hear
:00:56. > :01:00.Barely more than a week now until polling day,
:01:01. > :01:10.and a new revelation rocks the US Presidential election campaign.
:01:11. > :01:13.If it wasn't bizarre enough, it just got more bizarre.
:01:14. > :01:15.The FBI have reopened their investigation into Hillary Clinton's
:01:16. > :01:17.use of private email servers whilst she was Secretary
:01:18. > :01:25.of State, after the discovery of further emails.
:01:26. > :01:30.Though not on her laptop or even the State Department.
:01:31. > :01:33.Donald Trump is saying that it's bigger than Watergate -
:01:34. > :01:35.so could it swing the election in his favour?
:01:36. > :01:37.We spoke to top US pollster, Frank Luntz.
:01:38. > :01:41.The FBI investigation is happening so late in the election process
:01:42. > :01:45.that it would be very difficult to derail a Clinton victory.
:01:46. > :01:48.That said, if there is one thing that could keep Hillary Clinton
:01:49. > :01:53.from the presidency, it's an FBI investigation.
:01:54. > :01:56.But there's still only four states that really matter, Florida, Ohio,
:01:57. > :02:01.Right now, Clinton has beyond the margin of error leads
:02:02. > :02:08.This would have to have a truly significant impact for the election
:02:09. > :02:15.There is a point about a week ago when I was prepared to say that
:02:16. > :02:21.Clinton had a 95% chance of winning this election.
:02:22. > :02:27.Based on what has happened in the last 48 hours,
:02:28. > :02:32.It is still very likely, but I wouldn't bet on it.
:02:33. > :02:35.I thought the 2000 election would be the best election of my lifetime,
:02:36. > :02:40.And then I thought 2008 would be amazing, because we had two
:02:41. > :02:43.challenger candidates and the first African-American President.
:02:44. > :02:52.It is ugly, it's painful, it is as negative as anything
:02:53. > :02:58.The public is angry, the country, overall, is frustrated.
:02:59. > :03:05.But for entertainment value, these candidates probably should
:03:06. > :03:08.have charged us money, because it's better than any movie
:03:09. > :03:11.at ever seen, it's better than any TV show.
:03:12. > :03:22.That was Frank Luntz. He may be right or wrong about Mrs Clinton
:03:23. > :03:31.still having an 80% chance of winning. I would bet on an 80%
:03:32. > :03:35.chance? Yes, absolutely. I spoke to a high-profile American pollster and
:03:36. > :03:40.strategist last night and he took a rather different view to Frank
:03:41. > :03:43.Luntz. He thought, and I think some other high-profile commentators
:03:44. > :03:48.agree, that this is actually much more serious than some people
:03:49. > :03:53.realise. There are an awful lot of undecided voters out there looking
:03:54. > :03:58.for an excuse to vote Trump. They do not like what they see in either
:03:59. > :04:02.candidate. But because this FBI probe is not going to conclude
:04:03. > :04:07.before the election, the question, the doubt over Hillary Clinton,
:04:08. > :04:12.gives them an excuse to back Trump. The thing that will play on the
:04:13. > :04:16.minds of the voters is, could the 100 day honeymoon turning to the 100
:04:17. > :04:22.day divorce? Which even be impeached? It may give some people
:04:23. > :04:26.an excuse not to vote for Mrs Clinton. It could provide a problem
:04:27. > :04:34.in terms of energising her base The battle ground almost matters more
:04:35. > :04:40.than the polls. Florida and Pennsylvania have been trending to
:04:41. > :04:46.Mrs Clinton. Mr Trump needs to win both. He does not get in without
:04:47. > :04:51.both. He needs both. Just coming up in the latest BBC News, the
:04:52. > :04:58.Washington Post tracking poll, Mrs Clinton is now only one point ahead
:04:59. > :05:02.in the national poll. One point Even given my caveat that the state
:05:03. > :05:08.battles are most important. That is incredibly close? It is. Polls
:05:09. > :05:16.yesterday showed Trump nationally closing of. -- up. There is a clear
:05:17. > :05:19.trend and movement. This has reinforced everything that people
:05:20. > :05:24.who have a problem with Hillary Clinton know about Hillary Clinton.
:05:25. > :05:29.Trump is running this insurgent campaign. We have seen at here with
:05:30. > :05:32.Brexit. If you are running an insurgent campaign, you want to be
:05:33. > :05:36.against the ultimate establishment insider and that is what Hillary
:05:37. > :05:42.Clinton is. I suggested it was bizarre. Fathoming the behaviour of
:05:43. > :05:46.the FBI is interesting as well. This is a separate investigation into a
:05:47. > :05:51.former congressman, Anthony Wiener, who had done all sorts of things. He
:05:52. > :05:59.seemed to be sex text thing a minor. A 15-year-old girl. The FBI
:06:00. > :06:06.investigate. They get his laptop to see what else he has been too. In
:06:07. > :06:10.the course of that, his wife, now separated, the closest adviser to
:06:11. > :06:20.Hillary Clinton, they find on the laptop e-mails involving the Clinton
:06:21. > :06:26.server to her. And yet the FBI cannot, it needs now a separate
:06:27. > :06:29.warrant to access these e-mails It hasn't got that yet. It has got a
:06:30. > :06:37.warrant to do the congressman e-mails. On the basis of not knowing
:06:38. > :06:44.the content, this has happened. Yeah. Who knows? He is a Republican,
:06:45. > :06:48.this guy. Earlier this year he was being praised to the hilt by
:06:49. > :06:53.Democrats. Absolutely. The timing is a nightmare for her. You described
:06:54. > :06:59.the whole sequence. There is nothing definitive to doubt in this
:07:00. > :07:05.sequence. All he is saying is he has discovered more e-mails in effect.
:07:06. > :07:12.They are from the congressman's former wife. On Anthony Wiener's
:07:13. > :07:19.laptop, which apparently she used sometimes. But what that shows is
:07:20. > :07:24.that for all the scrutiny of modern politicians, they cannot escape
:07:25. > :07:29.caricature. And as Tim was just saying, her weakness is perceived to
:07:30. > :07:33.be secretive, elitism and complacency about that elitism. And
:07:34. > :07:39.so just the announcement of a reopening of the investigation so
:07:40. > :07:43.fuels that caricature, you have just revealed a poll giving her a 1%
:07:44. > :07:48.lead. That must be related to what has happened. It is without a shred
:07:49. > :07:54.of evidence that she has done anything wrong. You can see how
:07:55. > :07:59.because people only see things encourage kids, that is deadly
:08:00. > :08:04.serious. -- in caricature. An American friend of mine said we have
:08:05. > :08:11.got our October surprise but we don't know what it is. The FBI must
:08:12. > :08:18.surely come under massive pressure. It did its -- it did this against
:08:19. > :08:21.the Justice Department. The difficulty the FBI had was that this
:08:22. > :08:26.information, for what it's worth, it came to them. Were they not to have
:08:27. > :08:30.said something and it worked to have come out later, they would have been
:08:31. > :08:35.accused of a massive cover-up. They are dammed if they do, dammed if
:08:36. > :08:39.they don't. There is still time for another surprise. And early November
:08:40. > :08:44.surprise. Who knows if there might still be something that comes out on
:08:45. > :08:48.Donald Trump? This is the first election where I can remember we
:08:49. > :08:54.have had two October surprises already. There are is stuff about
:08:55. > :08:58.tapes knocking around about Donald Trump saying racist things. The
:08:59. > :09:02.Clintons have got a lot of friends. It would be a big surprise if we did
:09:03. > :09:04.not see anything else in the next few days.
:09:05. > :09:11.Just when you think it could not get more interesting, it has. There has
:09:12. > :09:12.been plenty in the papers lately about the Ukip leadership saying
:09:13. > :09:15.unpleasant things about each other. But what about Mr Farage himself?
:09:16. > :09:17.What's he up to? Well, on BBC Two tonight we may
:09:18. > :09:20.find out the answer. Well, I'm led to believe
:09:21. > :09:27.she's very experienced. But I don't think Strictly Come
:09:28. > :09:29.Dancing is for me. That is, unless, of course,
:09:30. > :09:35.you fancy popping a cheeky zero No, I don't think Strictly
:09:36. > :09:39.Come Dancing is for me. Well, you tell Mr Balls he has just
:09:40. > :09:45.lost your programme one viewer. I might have nothing to do these
:09:46. > :10:07.days but, realistically, Well, that wasn't Nigel Farage. It
:10:08. > :10:13.is a BBC comedy on tonight. Nigel Farage gets his life back. A number
:10:14. > :10:18.of runners and riders. Let's come straight down to it. Who would be
:10:19. > :10:23.the next leader of Ukip? Probably Paul Nuttall. He is the favourite.
:10:24. > :10:28.The one who has the backing, not very enthusiastic backing, is Rahim
:10:29. > :10:39.Cassandra. And also Aaron Banks a big donor. The best of a rather weak
:10:40. > :10:50.lot. I think Paul Nuttall should squeak through. I interviewed all
:10:51. > :10:53.three of them this week. Mr Cassandra is a lively character and
:10:54. > :10:57.he knows how to make a few headlines. With a bit of money
:10:58. > :11:01.behind him, anything is possible. This is a guy who has been to the
:11:02. > :11:12.States, who has literally studied what Trump has done. Pees on
:11:13. > :11:19.secondment for the time being. The guy who is his line manager is one
:11:20. > :11:21.of Donald Trump's campaign stop He is extraordinarily right-wing. I am
:11:22. > :11:30.told he kept a picture of Enoch Powell by his bed. Barry Goldwater
:11:31. > :11:37.is one of his heroes, for example. There are other candidates. I would
:11:38. > :11:43.suggest, put out as a hypothesis, Paul Nuttall is Labour's worst
:11:44. > :11:48.nightmare. They are more vulnerable in the North. Paul Nuttall is from
:11:49. > :11:52.Merseyside, a working-class background, performs well on
:11:53. > :11:57.television. He is a really good interviewee. He is one of the best
:11:58. > :12:01.around in politics at the moment. However, I think whoever gets it has
:12:02. > :12:08.a massive task. The clip of this Nigel Farage satire partly shows
:12:09. > :12:13.why. His dominance was overwhelming. He, in many ways, did a brilliant
:12:14. > :12:17.job at keeping the show on the road. The trouble for all new political
:12:18. > :12:22.parties is keeping it going is tough. A very different party, the
:12:23. > :12:26.SDP, with all those glamorous figures in it, lasted eight years,
:12:27. > :12:30.something like that. I think they are in real trouble at the moment
:12:31. > :12:36.because of the implosion we have been seeing in front of our eyes and
:12:37. > :12:45.the ideal -- ideological splits Whoever gets it will face a tough
:12:46. > :12:48.tussle. All three of the main contenders want to put Nigel Farage
:12:49. > :12:53.in the House of Lords. They were falling over themselves to soak up
:12:54. > :12:56.two farads. That is how you win this election.
:12:57. > :13:03.Mr Aaron Banks, who is he putting his money on? He said he supports
:13:04. > :13:09.Rahim. I know Mr Banks is utterly fed with the shenanigans in Ukip. He
:13:10. > :13:12.thinks it is terribly disorganised, dysfunctional and doesn't want a
:13:13. > :13:15.great deal to do with it for the foreseeable future.
:13:16. > :13:20.It is not quite Trump the Clinton but it is interesting. That is it.
:13:21. > :13:26.The Daily Politics is back tomorrow. And all of next week. Jo Coburn will
:13:27. > :13:30.be your next Sunday because I am off to the United States to begin to
:13:31. > :13:36.rehearse presenting the BBC's US election night coverage on the th
:13:37. > :13:37.of November. It will be here on BBC One, BBC
:13:38. > :13:39.world, BBC News Channel and BBC online.
:13:40. > :14:10.Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.
:14:11. > :14:13.A stone stained with blood and beset with a curse.
:14:14. > :14:17.The Moonstone is of inestimable value in India.
:14:18. > :14:21.Its appointed guardians would move heaven and earth to reclaim it
:14:22. > :14:29.Let us not let the past haunt all of our actions.
:14:30. > :14:30.You've got to do something! It's only you that can!
:14:31. > :14:32.He's a scientist, brilliant apparently.