:01:42. > :01:52.In Leeds, a warning followed a's leadership from Yorkshire's union
:01:52. > :01:52.
:01:52. > :31:19.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1767 seconds
:31:19. > :31:25.Welcome to the show at the Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Coming
:31:25. > :31:31.up, we meet the campaigners who claim one of Yorkshire's most
:31:31. > :31:36.scenic landscapes will be ruined by a major mining scheme.
:31:36. > :31:41.First, let's meet our main to guests today. Mary Creagh, the
:31:41. > :31:48.Labour MP for Wakefield and the shadow environment secretary. And
:31:48. > :31:51.Simon Reevell, this Conservative MP for Dewsbury. It has been a tough
:31:51. > :31:54.week for Ed Miliband, bookies have slashed the odds on him remaining
:31:54. > :31:59.Labour leader at the time of the next election. Do you think he will
:31:59. > :32:02.last the course? I think he will, we have seen in speeches that Ed
:32:02. > :32:08.Miliband continues to shape the political debate in this country.
:32:08. > :32:11.Whether it was his instinctive response to the News International
:32:11. > :32:16.scandal last summer, or the debate on crony capitalism where now we
:32:16. > :32:20.see the Prime Minister roaring in behind him, he is setting out the
:32:20. > :32:24.future ground on which the next election will be fought. Simon
:32:24. > :32:29.Reevell, many Tories seek Ed Miliband as an electoral asset.
:32:29. > :32:34.Would you be heartbroken if he were suddenly to not be Labour leader?
:32:34. > :32:39.It depends on what sort of Labour Party they want to be, he is no
:32:39. > :32:44.worse than Michael Foot, Gordon Brown on Neil Kinnock.
:32:44. > :32:49.Ed Miliband and Ed Balls have both announced that they are in favour
:32:49. > :32:52.of a freeze on public sector wages. That has prompted a big row among
:32:52. > :33:02.some trade union leaders in Yorkshire. They were so furious
:33:02. > :33:08.
:33:08. > :33:14.they have threatened to It's absolute madness. Absolutely
:33:14. > :33:18.nonsensical. It has always been a difficult and passionate
:33:18. > :33:23.relationship, but this isn't between Labour's most senior duo
:33:23. > :33:28.and the trade unions is not only down to deeply held principles but
:33:28. > :33:32.also the way in which the significant shift in policy was
:33:32. > :33:37.carried out. Unions affiliated to Labour have been fuming since Ed
:33:37. > :33:42.Balls said last Saturday that he would not promise to lift the cap
:33:42. > :33:44.on public sector pay. One source told this programme the Yorkshire
:33:44. > :33:48.dominated shadow cabinet has been more than surprised by the backlash,
:33:48. > :33:54.which had seemed threats from one union that it will sever ties on
:33:54. > :33:59.the party. It is certainly thumbing your nose at the trade unionists,
:33:59. > :34:03.workers, hospital workers, engineers, who pay union
:34:03. > :34:07.contributions and a piece of that go towards the Labour Party. The
:34:07. > :34:11.bottom line is our members will encourage us to evaluate our
:34:11. > :34:16.relationship with the Labour Party. Is has also emerged the Shadow
:34:16. > :34:22.Cabinet had not have discussed this major cabinet policy shift when it
:34:22. > :34:27.met last Wednesday. Shadow ministers were telephoned and told
:34:27. > :34:31.about it and some unions were also warned by telephone. This is about
:34:31. > :34:36.signals to get out to London and the Home Counties. The danger with
:34:36. > :34:41.signals is, if this policy came to fruition, which it never would, it
:34:41. > :34:47.has consequences. Economic League, it is nonsensical. The shadow
:34:47. > :34:51.cabinet justifies the policy by pointing out that is going on in
:34:51. > :34:54.towns like Doncaster, pay cuts to preserve jobs. Conciliatory noises
:34:54. > :34:59.are coming from the Ed Balls camp, but also with the rider that the
:35:00. > :35:05.unions have to wake up and smell the coffee when it comes to deficit
:35:05. > :35:11.reduction. We will discuss this with Mary
:35:11. > :35:17.Creagh and Simon Reevell in a moment. Let me introduce a member
:35:17. > :35:22.of the Unison union, and you work for the street seemed department on
:35:22. > :35:28.Leeds City Council, what do you do? It involves keeping the streets of
:35:29. > :35:33.Leeds tidy, and seeing the bins. very important job. -- emptying the
:35:33. > :35:36.bins. What you think about the direction of the Labour Party and
:35:36. > :35:42.Ed Miliband? I was very disappointed in the line he appears
:35:42. > :35:48.to be taking, because Ed Miliband, in my view, should be campaigning
:35:48. > :35:52.for a living wage. You don't think he is doing that? No. With the pay
:35:52. > :35:57.freeze and the announcement made by him and Ed Balls? No, it is not
:35:57. > :36:01.exactly giving people out there, who are disenfranchised as a result
:36:01. > :36:05.of the government's policies, an alternative. People do not want to
:36:05. > :36:11.vote for more of of the same, they want an alternative. What is your
:36:11. > :36:14.response, Mary Creagh? This is a continuation of our policy in
:36:14. > :36:18.government. Alastair Darling announced this in 2009, we are an
:36:18. > :36:22.opposition that aspire to be in government. Was the Autumn
:36:22. > :36:26.Statement has showed us is that George Osborne, by cutting too far
:36:26. > :36:32.too fast by making the wrong choices on the economy... Ed Balls
:36:32. > :36:37.has been denying at problem in the deficit, saying cuts are not
:36:37. > :36:41.necessary. We said we would be doing the deficit reduction in half
:36:41. > :36:45.the time. When we left power -- power, unemployment was coming down
:36:45. > :36:50.and growth was rising. We have seen this week to 0.7 million people
:36:50. > :36:53.unemployed, one in 10 Yorkshire's in Yorkshire on the dole, that is
:36:53. > :37:00.no way to bring the deficit down. The choice, if we were in
:37:00. > :37:05.government now, would meet the having paid going up and people on
:37:05. > :37:09.the dole or have people in the work? We would have people in work.
:37:09. > :37:14.How would you convince people like Glenn here that he needs to keep
:37:14. > :37:17.his pay frozen? The big picture is that this country does not have any
:37:17. > :37:21.money. If people have a recollection of a golden time under
:37:21. > :37:25.the Labour government, I would be astonished. We have got to pay off
:37:25. > :37:31.the debt so we can use our money to start investing in the things we
:37:31. > :37:34.need. The amount the private sector can afford to fund the public
:37:34. > :37:39.sector has to come down. It is nothing personal against any one
:37:39. > :37:44.individual, it is a question of any -- everybody having to recognise we
:37:44. > :37:48.cannot spend the money we have been spending. We had a programme -- a
:37:48. > :37:52.teacher on the programme last week saying their friends in the public
:37:52. > :37:56.sector is becoming more interested in politics. That is because in a
:37:56. > :37:59.decade -- for a decade, it was so well funded, there was no interest,
:37:59. > :38:04.the money kept coming. But is not affordable for the rest of the
:38:04. > :38:11.country. Any crumbs of comfort therefore you? None at all. What I
:38:11. > :38:16.would say for now, we have already been subjected to a two-year pay --
:38:16. > :38:22.pay freeze, we have another one coming up. The reality is, for
:38:22. > :38:26.someone who owns �15,000 per year, how can you kick-start the economy,
:38:26. > :38:31.if you are freezing their pay, that individual not have -- will be
:38:31. > :38:38.surviving on the bare necessities. Struggling to pay fuel bills and
:38:38. > :38:44.pay for food. Struggling to pay for public transport. Even if this 1%,
:38:44. > :38:49.so-called, pay rise was to materialise, it would amount to
:38:49. > :38:55.somebody on �15,000 per year, it would amount to �3 per week. That
:38:55. > :39:00.is an absolute insult. You will not kick-start the economy in real
:39:00. > :39:05.terms by offering derogatory pay cuts. You are nodding in agreement,
:39:05. > :39:09.but you are actually going to freeze his pay. I have every
:39:09. > :39:12.sympathy with him, I have visited a food bank in Bradford, and on
:39:12. > :39:16.Monday and will be leading a debate in the Commons about the
:39:16. > :39:20.difficulties families are facing with rising food prices. I have
:39:20. > :39:24.spoken to mothers who were eating the scraps of their children's
:39:24. > :39:27.plates. I am not under any illusions about how hard it is for
:39:27. > :39:32.people out there. These are people who were holding down good jobs are
:39:32. > :39:37.few years ago, people who have debts or who are divorced can
:39:37. > :39:41.easily find themselves in difficult circumstances. But we have to be,
:39:41. > :39:44.in opposition, we have to speak for the entire country. That means
:39:44. > :39:48.people in the private sector as well as the public sector, if we
:39:48. > :39:53.aspire to govern and turn this country around after the next
:39:53. > :39:56.election. You are a Labour Party supporter, will they continue to
:39:56. > :40:00.have your support? I will be reviewing my support of Labour
:40:00. > :40:06.along with the unions, because we are disgusted at what has been said.
:40:06. > :40:10.What people want to hear, when they work in low-paid jobs, whether
:40:10. > :40:14.public or private sector, they want the Labour Party to be on board
:40:14. > :40:18.pushing for a living wage. To reiterate, that is public or
:40:18. > :40:25.private sector, they want the Labour Party or to be pushing for
:40:25. > :40:30.the Labour -- living wage. government, we increased spending,
:40:30. > :40:33.we work and invest it, we once the country to be in a position to --
:40:33. > :40:37.we want the country to be in a position to invest in the future.
:40:37. > :40:41.We had a big rise in unemployment this week, especially in our part
:40:41. > :40:45.of the world. David Cameron was confident that public sector jobs
:40:45. > :40:51.will come true, but that does not seem to be happening. -- private
:40:51. > :40:55.sector jobs, rather. The hope is that the private sector will grow
:40:55. > :40:59.and take up people who have been in a public sector that was
:40:59. > :41:03.unsustainable. You cannot just continue to employ everybody in the
:41:03. > :41:06.public sector, someone has got to make something and pay for that.
:41:06. > :41:11.Where are the private sector jobs in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire?
:41:11. > :41:15.are coming through, but times are hard. That solution cannot be to
:41:15. > :41:20.put everyone back on the public sector books. Unemployment is not
:41:20. > :41:24.going to start coming down, the in employment -- the independent
:41:24. > :41:28.review says it will not come down until next year. You are not
:41:28. > :41:37.printed change course, followed labour's five-point plan to make
:41:37. > :41:41.jobs and growth. Some are thought to have heard today from our MPs. -
:41:41. > :41:45.- sum up what you have heard today. This government have announced that
:41:45. > :41:50.they want to shed 700,000 jobs in the public sector, and when they
:41:50. > :41:54.come to office, and stated they would be shed public sector jobs
:41:54. > :42:00.and create them in the private sector, that has not happened. That
:42:00. > :42:05.is still not happening. Briefly, what I would say is that if we are
:42:05. > :42:08.being subjected to more pay freezes in real terms, pay cuts, we will
:42:08. > :42:13.not have the money to spend in the local economy, in private
:42:13. > :42:17.businesses. We will bring you back, no doubt, in the fullness of time
:42:17. > :42:27.to question a lot MPs today. Thank you for coming in.
:42:27. > :42:30.
:42:30. > :42:35.Let's catch up with the news in 60 Could a new Jag for two Jags be on
:42:35. > :42:39.the card? Lord Prescott will receive �40,000 from the owners of
:42:39. > :42:43.the News of the World after the former Hull MP's phone was hacked.
:42:43. > :42:48.York racecourse saw the arrival of an unscheduled Hunt, the culture
:42:48. > :42:52.secretary Jeremy Hunt, trying to persuade businesses they can be
:42:53. > :42:56.winners as a result of the London Olympics. I would not fancy any of
:42:56. > :43:00.these against Usain Bolt! An unexpected resignation on
:43:00. > :43:04.Thursday, Lib Dem Euro MP Diana Wallace announced she was quitting
:43:04. > :43:09.after failing to land the job of President of the European Cham it -
:43:09. > :43:15.- parliament. There is a tinge of disillusionment, but it inspires me
:43:15. > :43:19.to say, I think I can do more here than being away.
:43:19. > :43:23.It has been revealed her job will be taken on by her husband, Stuart
:43:23. > :43:29.Arnold, who was second on the Lib Dem's list in the Yorkshire and
:43:29. > :43:33.Humber region. Some argue this is too cosy a coalition.
:43:34. > :43:37.So, it is goodbye to Diana Wallace for now, but I am sure we have not
:43:37. > :43:43.heard the last from have. Mary Creagh, what you think about this
:43:43. > :43:48.situation? A year MP resigned, the second person get their job, and
:43:48. > :43:51.none of this by-election business. It seems extraordinary and I think
:43:51. > :43:54.it is incredible that we have people standing for election who
:43:54. > :43:58.apply it -- aspire to be the President of the European
:43:58. > :44:03.Parliament, and then when they fail, they effectively throw the toys out
:44:03. > :44:10.of the pram and make sure there husband gives them a soft landing.
:44:10. > :44:14.I suspect banner was will have a different take. This is not a
:44:14. > :44:21.unique situation -- I suspect Diana Wallace will have a different take
:44:21. > :44:24.on that. Do you think the rules should be looked at again? This
:44:24. > :44:28.stands out because it will be passed on to her husband, but it is
:44:28. > :44:33.not the fact that it is her husband taking over, it is the system that
:44:33. > :44:36.allows it to be passed on like a bat on without people voting.
:44:36. > :44:38.People might take a completely different view of who they want to
:44:38. > :44:43.represent them after this performance and they should be
:44:43. > :44:51.given their say. I think after the Lib Dems support in the coalition
:44:51. > :44:54.Tories, I do not think we will see any more Lib Dem European MPs.
:44:54. > :44:58.Jeremy Hunt was in Yorkshire this week, urging people to make the
:44:58. > :45:03.most of the London Olympics, urging businesses. Do you think we will
:45:03. > :45:06.benefit in this part of the world? I think there is more to be done.
:45:06. > :45:09.Businesses in my constituency are involved, but I have heard from
:45:09. > :45:17.businesses to have tried to get involved and could not. I think we
:45:17. > :45:20.have get -- got to make sure the opportunity is there, time is
:45:20. > :45:26.running out. There is a knock-on effect, it is not just an economic
:45:26. > :45:32.effect, on the morning of 25th June I had every school kid in my
:45:32. > :45:37.constituency will be packed into the Jewsbury to see the torch go by.
:45:37. > :45:41.They will remember that forever. these difficult times, we are
:45:41. > :45:45.asking what should take priority, jobs or the environment? That is
:45:45. > :45:49.the dilemma facing the North York Moors National Park, where the
:45:49. > :45:56.authorities are looking at a major new mining application which could
:45:56. > :46:01.create up to 5000 jobs. Whitby Abbey dominates the
:46:01. > :46:05.landscape, but it now has a rival. A few miles away, in a field
:46:05. > :46:10.outside the picturesque village, this giant trail has been
:46:10. > :46:15.extracting mineral samples from over a mile beneath the sample, and
:46:15. > :46:19.it has struck a huge deposit of potash, largely used to make
:46:19. > :46:27.fertiliser. This is one of about a dozen or -- doesn't bore holes. The
:46:27. > :46:34.company needs them to see where it needs to apply it to get planning
:46:34. > :46:39.permission to create a mine. One thing is clear, because where the
:46:40. > :46:44.deposits are, it will have to have a shaft within the national park.
:46:44. > :46:49.The incentive is 1000 mining jobs at the Pit, and indirect employment
:46:49. > :46:53.for 4000, but all in -- only if it can construct of the biggest piece
:46:53. > :46:57.of industrial development in the 60 year history of any of the national
:46:57. > :47:01.parks in the UK. Anyone can understand the positive benefits,
:47:01. > :47:05.what it can do for local, national economies and the potash industry.
:47:05. > :47:10.It has always got to be balanced with, what would it look like,
:47:10. > :47:14.where will it be? We are working as hard and fast as we can to start
:47:14. > :47:18.providing answers. The company says modern mining technology will
:47:18. > :47:23.reduce its impact. Winding gear inside what will look like a big
:47:23. > :47:29.bomb, a sharp, well over a mile down, to the miners working below,
:47:29. > :47:34.and an annual rent -- million pounds of potash pumped to Teesside
:47:34. > :47:38.as slurry through an underground pipeline. The jobs are a huge
:47:38. > :47:40.incentive for local support. This is a local college where an extra
:47:40. > :47:45.science class has already started for sixth-formers. More are
:47:45. > :47:49.expected to follow, and it is already a year before the country -
:47:49. > :47:52.- company is in a position to apply for planning position. I have made
:47:52. > :47:55.it clear to the company that we are not going to give them an
:47:55. > :48:01.environmental blank cheque. It is important that when they designed
:48:01. > :48:06.the pit, it is done sympathetically in a way that he is limiting upon
:48:06. > :48:09.the environment. If they cannot do that, they will not get a bit.
:48:09. > :48:14.Organisations representing users and representatives of national
:48:14. > :48:20.parks across the UK says this huge project, much -- costing more than
:48:20. > :48:25.�2 billion, is inappropriate. It has now launched a �25,000 fighting
:48:25. > :48:29.fund to oppose it. Because our own purpose is to look after the
:48:29. > :48:36.national parks for present and future generations, we have this
:48:36. > :48:40.concern that this will be a very undesirable industrial intrusion in
:48:40. > :48:44.the National Park. The man in the middle is the chief executive of
:48:44. > :48:48.the North York Moors National Park. That body will eventually decide on
:48:48. > :48:54.whether to give planning permission. Do you feel under pressure? Yes, of
:48:54. > :48:58.course, it is a big issue. And the park does understand the importance
:48:58. > :49:03.of potash. But it also understands the importance of national parks.
:49:03. > :49:07.We have to keep an open mind. drilling will go on for another few
:49:08. > :49:13.months, before the proposed site for the shaft and pits topple be
:49:14. > :49:17.revealed. That is when the debate will get under way.
:49:17. > :49:21.Mary Creagh, as its shadow environment secretary, do you think
:49:21. > :49:25.these mining proposals should go ahead? It is at an early stage but
:49:25. > :49:30.this is clear that it is an internationally significant dis --
:49:30. > :49:34.deposit of potash, and we needed to grow our food, it is a key
:49:34. > :49:39.component of fertiliser. Prices have to be made. If people do not
:49:39. > :49:44.want GM, we will use fertiliser. I understand people in Scarborough,
:49:44. > :49:48.whose children are facing an uncertain future, keen to see the
:49:48. > :49:53.jobs. On the other hand, they are national parks, they are a national
:49:53. > :49:58.treasure. They have to be protected. What we have seen with George
:49:58. > :50:02.Osborne is trying to push a duty of sustainable development on to the
:50:02. > :50:06.National Parks, ripping up the planning system, creating
:50:06. > :50:09.uncertainty for communities. Nobody in judgments -- government can say
:50:09. > :50:18.what sustainable development is, and no one can tell me whether a
:50:18. > :50:24.mine is -- mine is sustainable development. Your Conservative
:50:24. > :50:29.colleague, Robert good win, said he would not want to give the company
:50:29. > :50:33.and environmental black check -- blank cheque, it is a tough call.
:50:33. > :50:37.There has always been building in the national parks, out of
:50:37. > :50:42.necessity. There is a raid last enter their to make sure we are not
:50:42. > :50:46.attacked by rockets from other countries. -- a radar system.
:50:46. > :50:53.Sustainable development simply means a development which is
:50:53. > :50:58.sustainable, it is not a difficult concept. This mine has a 60 year