:01:29. > :01:32.As a controversial TV documentary focuses on segregation in Bradford,
:01:32. > :01:42.is the umbrella of Britishness enough to end decades of racial
:01:42. > :01:42.
:01:42. > :31:27.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1785 seconds
:31:27. > :31:30.We are asking, just how British are you? As a controversial TDG
:31:30. > :31:39.documentary focuses on segregation in Bradford, is the umbrella of
:31:39. > :31:47.Britishness enough to end decades of racial divide? There are guests
:31:48. > :31:51.today are David Ward, Diana Johnson and Jason McCarthy. I have in my
:31:51. > :31:56.hand three pieces of paper. We're going to start off with a little
:31:56. > :32:02.quiz. We're going to find out how British our MPs are. These are the
:32:02. > :32:07.official citizenship test questions. There are multiple choice. You're
:32:07. > :32:09.all intelligent people, so I'll just ask the questions. Jason
:32:09. > :32:19.McCartney, in what year was the National Health Service
:32:19. > :32:22.
:32:22. > :32:32.established? As it multiple-choice? 1948. Straight after the Second
:32:32. > :32:32.
:32:32. > :32:38.World War. On what this in George's Day celebrated in England? April
:32:38. > :32:43.23rd. Correct. All the pressures on David. How many elected members
:32:43. > :32:53.does the UK have in the European Parliament? Too many!
:32:53. > :32:56.
:32:56. > :33:06.Controversial! 59, 62, a 79, are rated for? -- or 84? 84. It is done
:33:06. > :33:06.
:33:06. > :33:12.73, apparently. The question we are asking, is can television succeed
:33:12. > :33:17.where politicians have failed? Make Bradford British assessed whether
:33:17. > :33:24.the City is among the most racially segregated in the UK. The producers
:33:24. > :33:34.claim they are trying to do exactly what it says in the title, make bad
:33:34. > :33:38.
:33:38. > :33:46.for British, but was it just We thank you Lord for this food on
:33:46. > :33:50.our table. Channel 4 says this is not so much a television programme,
:33:50. > :33:54.more a project aimed at helping social and racial integration in
:33:54. > :34:00.Bradford. How has it gone down with to viewers who have spent more than
:34:00. > :34:06.20 years working to achieve exactly that? I normally don't watch
:34:06. > :34:11.reality TV. I watched this one. It is an economic issue. That is what
:34:11. > :34:18.Bradford is about. Channel 4 set out to make a reality TV show to
:34:18. > :34:28.entertain people and they have succeeded in that. Hogmanay is a
:34:28. > :34:33.traditional celebration end... I do not understand the question. They
:34:33. > :34:39.tried out the citizenship test on groups of people from Bradford. All
:34:39. > :34:40.largely failed. That was no surprise to our viewers. The runner
:34:41. > :34:47.Bradford-based educational charity that has been complaining about
:34:47. > :34:50.them since they were first introduced. If you cannot get the
:34:50. > :34:54.general British population to answer the citizenship test, then
:34:54. > :34:57.there is a severe problem with the test in the first place. It is
:34:57. > :35:02.interesting that they use the system should test to determine a
:35:02. > :35:10.level of people's Britishness. That is not true at all. After watching
:35:10. > :35:15.the programme, a local MP is now calling for reform. We ought to be
:35:15. > :35:20.revisiting it to see fit gives any indication -- to see if it gives
:35:20. > :35:24.any indication. That was one of the things I learned from it, we need
:35:24. > :35:28.to look at this test and see whether or not it sufficiently
:35:28. > :35:37.emphasises the things we should be proud of about being British.
:35:37. > :35:42.Togetherness. Most criticism from Bradford politicians was that this
:35:42. > :35:46.documentary's -- this documentary could have been filmed in one of
:35:46. > :35:51.any of a dozen cities across the UK. And that it does not cover the real
:35:51. > :35:55.issues they are struggling with. The economy, employment and
:35:55. > :36:00.education. Was this programme Theatre Bradford? It wasn't really
:36:01. > :36:07.about Bradford. I am annoyed about the title. If there had been cold
:36:07. > :36:09.and experiment and social contact the, -- if it had been called an
:36:09. > :36:19.experiment in social contact Theory, if not many people would have
:36:19. > :36:26.
:36:26. > :36:32.watched it. The thing that annoyed me, to begin with, was the view
:36:32. > :36:35.that this was something that was new to Bradford. Diana, we
:36:36. > :36:40.shouldn't be so concerned -- should we be concerned as so many people
:36:40. > :36:44.are feeling the citizenship test that Labour introduced? I think it
:36:44. > :36:48.is interesting when you look at the statistics. For me, it is about
:36:48. > :36:53.what we're saying to our young children. We need to make sure that
:36:53. > :36:59.they have the skills and knowledge to be able to pass this test.
:36:59. > :37:06.Things like this are important, that they understand what we share
:37:06. > :37:09.together, common values. Jason McCartney, it is suggested that the
:37:09. > :37:13.British this test should be scrapped in its current form.
:37:13. > :37:20.Should be replaced with something more relevant? If you can pass it,
:37:20. > :37:28.maybe! I thought the programme was like an episode of Big Brother. The
:37:28. > :37:36.characters were interesting, it showed that most people in our
:37:36. > :37:38.country a reasonable, decent people. The trailer for next week shows
:37:38. > :37:43.that one of the girls is running off down the street after one of
:37:43. > :37:48.the other characters, so there is a this their bit of friction. It was
:37:48. > :37:52.a bit of entertainment. In my neck of the woods, I have a big Kashmiri,
:37:52. > :37:57.Pakistani community. A wonderful community, the disintegration, but
:37:57. > :38:00.they also have their own identity, so it is not about everybody
:38:00. > :38:05.coming-together be exactly the same, it is about celebrating differences
:38:05. > :38:09.in a positive way. It was important that, in the club, it was not
:38:09. > :38:16.tackling some of the big issues for communities not only in Bradford
:38:16. > :38:20.but across Yorkshire. That was not discussed at all. Those are issues
:38:20. > :38:29.that most community are concerned about at the moment. -- most
:38:29. > :38:31.communities. Yet the group of people who were willing to come
:38:31. > :38:37.together and be challenged and challenge others on prejudices and
:38:37. > :38:40.beliefs. There are some hard issues that need to be dealt with within
:38:40. > :38:44.the community. That probably could not have been done on a programme
:38:44. > :38:48.like this. The general principle of people coming together from
:38:48. > :38:54.different backgrounds, with some good will, wanting to get to know
:38:54. > :38:59.each other, barriers start to fall. The subtext is the Bradford is more
:38:59. > :39:03.divided than ever. Particularly the White working-class population and
:39:03. > :39:08.the Muslim population. Is that true? There are divisions in all
:39:08. > :39:11.societies. This could have been two separate white working-class
:39:11. > :39:14.estates coming together, where there are tensions between the two,
:39:14. > :39:20.and dealing with those. It could have been all there and younger
:39:20. > :39:24.people. By Jason McCartney, when David Cameron says that he wants to
:39:24. > :39:28.see the end of state-sponsored multiculturalism, what is the
:39:28. > :39:33.alternative? Communities working together as they do. In my part of
:39:33. > :39:42.the world as well, we have an inter-faith Forum, on Friday
:39:42. > :39:48.morning, we have there competition for singing, high levels of parents
:39:48. > :39:53.wanting to sign up at the school, but a third of the children at a to
:39:53. > :39:57.their -- that are there are ethnic- minority is and 22% of the speak
:39:57. > :40:06.English as a second languages. Big challenges, but they are being
:40:06. > :40:09.successful and moving on with it. We are moving on to Skegness, where
:40:09. > :40:13.UKIP have been holding the conference.
:40:13. > :40:16.Nigel Farage has pointed to a poll which shows his party being ahead
:40:17. > :40:21.of them Liberal-Democrats and the North of England. They're keen to
:40:21. > :40:27.broaden the appeal beyond their usual Euro-sceptic base. The EU and
:40:27. > :40:33.immigration remain key policy areas. The tourist industry in Skegness
:40:33. > :40:39.and relies on many foreign born workers disservice the hotels, bars
:40:39. > :40:42.and restaurants. Because the work is seasonal, we rely on migrant
:40:42. > :40:48.workers. Sometimes we struggle to get resources and the migrant
:40:48. > :40:54.workers fill the gap. We would struggle if they were not here.
:40:54. > :40:59.This weekend, members of the UK Independence Party descended on
:40:59. > :41:02.Skegness for their spring conference. Their leader, Nigel
:41:02. > :41:07.Farage, has called for tighter controls on workers coming here
:41:07. > :41:11.from other European countries. It is irresponsible and wrong, at a
:41:11. > :41:15.time when youth unemployment in Britain is running at 21%, to have
:41:15. > :41:18.a total open door, and unlimited open door, to the whole of Eastern
:41:18. > :41:26.Europe. We have a massive oversupply and the unskilled labour
:41:27. > :41:30.market. All of this is cos there's part of any you. -- is because we
:41:30. > :41:34.are part of the European Union. Give people work permits. We have a
:41:34. > :41:40.market that is totally flooded. Although the Government has grit in
:41:40. > :41:45.place a number -- a Caporn the number of workers in place --
:41:45. > :41:48.coming in from outside the European Union, most people from Europe can
:41:48. > :41:52.come and work in places like Lincolnshire as and when the police.
:41:52. > :41:55.With local businesses be able to cope with stricter controls on
:41:55. > :42:00.migrant workers from the European Union? I think there would be a
:42:00. > :42:05.slight impact, indeed. In the short term, there would be. In the long
:42:06. > :42:10.term, we would be able to adapt. We put a job application out for a
:42:10. > :42:13.receptionist, and we're inundated with application forms. Sometimes
:42:13. > :42:17.we struggle with lack of qualifications. That is a general
:42:17. > :42:25.problem throughout the country. It is not for want of trying. The big
:42:25. > :42:32.news here was the defection of Roger Helmer. He spent the many
:42:32. > :42:35.years as a Conservative in Brussels. Last year in Scarborough, I said we
:42:35. > :42:40.had a real chance of catching up and perhaps overtaking the Liberal
:42:40. > :42:43.Democrats as the third force in British politics. In 2011, we
:42:43. > :42:53.advanced a long way and in the North of England, we are now
:42:53. > :42:57.
:42:57. > :43:02.significantly ahead of the Lib-Dems and the opinion polls. You could
:43:02. > :43:09.believe that the political tide is starting to turn in their favour --
:43:09. > :43:12.UKIP believe the political tide is starting to turn. What you make of
:43:13. > :43:17.them being the third force because they are ahead of you most polls
:43:17. > :43:22.and the North of England? Moliere ahead of them a number of MPs in
:43:22. > :43:27.the House of Commons. -- well, we are ahead of them. We are
:43:27. > :43:32.delivering a big, big chunk of the manifesto. We are getting more
:43:32. > :43:37.money into schools. We're bringing down the tax that people on low
:43:37. > :43:42.incomes are paying. We are doing things. The only poll I am
:43:42. > :43:49.interested in is the one Na 2015. UKIP will have claimed to have
:43:49. > :43:53.caught the mood of the UK public. They will say they claimed -- they
:43:53. > :43:56.will say they predicted the euro crisis. Are they going places?
:43:56. > :44:00.There focusing on the European issue and there is more to discuss.
:44:00. > :44:06.What I found interesting in the polling that is the Lib-Dems are at
:44:06. > :44:08.4%. That is the same amount of people who believe that Elvis
:44:08. > :44:14.Presley is still alive. It is interesting the have gone down so
:44:14. > :44:17.far in the polls. They have not delivered in government, and a
:44:17. > :44:22.report recognised that. They have reneged on every promise they made
:44:22. > :44:27.in the manifesto. The other big split in the NHS. -- about the NHS.
:44:27. > :44:34.Let us see what happens to the Liberal Democrats. Will be fought
:44:34. > :44:41.against the NHS Bill that is so unpopular with the public. His
:44:41. > :44:45.Elvis alive and well in Leeds? He worked in a chip shop! Nigel Farage
:44:45. > :44:48.said he would bring in work permits. Many Tories will sympathise with
:44:48. > :44:51.that, when the? There are a lot of people having their concerns about
:44:51. > :44:56.the role of Europe. There are concerns about the number of
:44:56. > :45:01.migrant workers. Of the 7 million people in the UK that were not born
:45:01. > :45:04.in Britain, 5 million are non European Union countries and only 2
:45:04. > :45:08.million were eat European Union countries. I think we need an open
:45:09. > :45:16.debate. Do I actually voted to have a referendum on European Union and
:45:17. > :45:21.there were three for -- bid are three choices. A lot of decent,
:45:21. > :45:28.honourable people are concerned about the level of migrant workers.
:45:28. > :45:31.That is something which we need to tackle and look at. David Ward and
:45:31. > :45:39.his colleagues are never going to let you have that referendum, are
:45:39. > :45:46.the? It is about democracy, what we vote for in the House of Commons. I
:45:46. > :45:49.hope we will have the referendum on the year. -- on the European Union.
:45:49. > :45:59.I think it is it important to show people we live in a democratic
:45:59. > :46:09.
:46:09. > :46:13.country. It is time to catch up This Labour MP is stepping down. It
:46:13. > :46:22.has triggered a by-election in his Bradford seat. He has been an MP
:46:22. > :46:32.there since 1997. 850 workers at D systems have been told the campaign
:46:32. > :46:33.
:46:33. > :46:37.to save their jobs has failed. -- BAE Systems. The union is taking
:46:37. > :46:42.legal action over the handling of the job losses. Wakefield Council
:46:42. > :46:48.has approved millions of pounds' worth of cuts. Fewer jobs than
:46:48. > :46:52.expected will be let go. They have brought in charges for parking.
:46:52. > :46:56.Shadow health secretary Andy Burnham turned up outside the
:46:56. > :47:06.Sheffield offices of Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg. He left some
:47:06. > :47:07.
:47:07. > :47:10.friendly advice in the form of a letter. Drop the NHS bill. It has
:47:10. > :47:20.been in a grim week for people in your part of the world, Diana
:47:20. > :47:20.
:47:20. > :47:24.Johnson. British Aerospace saying that there are more jobs to lose.
:47:24. > :47:28.The unions have lost a legal challenge. Is there more that can
:47:28. > :47:33.be done? Yes, there is. I feel that they have behaved disgracefully. I
:47:33. > :47:37.am pleased the union have challenge them. The way the announcement was
:47:37. > :47:40.leaked in the first place and the fact they have engaged in no
:47:40. > :47:44.consultation with the unions. I am pleased the unions will challenge
:47:44. > :47:47.this because I think it needs to be put down that they are not behaving
:47:47. > :47:50.properly under do have responsibilities not only to the
:47:50. > :48:00.workers but to the community that has served them so well for many,
:48:00. > :48:00.
:48:00. > :48:03.many years. As is the nature of politics, we end up talking about
:48:03. > :48:12.by-elections. What are the main issues going to be in Bradford
:48:12. > :48:18.West? Politics aside, we know he has had health problems for a long
:48:18. > :48:28.time. He had a reputation she now has been a good constituency MP. --
:48:28. > :48:31.as being a good constituency MP. There is a lot happening in terms
:48:31. > :48:38.of the battle going on in terms of how we address the economic crisis
:48:38. > :48:43.that we are in. That is going to be the main issue, how were we doing
:48:43. > :48:49.that and I'll be doing it right? No doubt, that will be a hotly-
:48:49. > :48:56.contested by-election. It is a peculiar consist -- captured -- a
:48:56. > :49:01.peculiar constituency. There was a swing the other way here, a swing
:49:01. > :49:05.from Conservative to Labour. Lap up the trend. You're looking for
:49:05. > :49:08.someone who would make headway against Labour, presumably? In
:49:08. > :49:17.Yorkshire, we did particularly well on the 2010 general election
:49:17. > :49:27.because be selected a candidate surly. -- we selected our
:49:27. > :49:32.
:49:32. > :49:38.candidates LA. -- early. He should party kneeled on to win, Diana
:49:38. > :49:43.Johnson? I think we're going to fight a very hard campaign. The NHS
:49:43. > :49:47.will be one of the key issues we are put into words did electorate.
:49:47. > :49:51.That is something that the population do not want to reform.
:49:51. > :49:54.We know there is a split here between the Liberals and the Tories.
:49:54. > :49:58.It was interesting to see Andy Burnham and that club, because I
:49:58. > :50:04.saw him one night last weekend he was asked what Labour's policies on
:50:04. > :50:07.the NHS where, and he completely lost it. He had absolutely nothing
:50:07. > :50:16.to say having brought an unsupported reforms that brought in
:50:16. > :50:26.private providers and the last Parliament. The it is ridiculous!
:50:26. > :50:28.
:50:28. > :50:36.That is nonsense! We would not be spending �3 million on a top-down
:50:36. > :50:40.reorganisation. -- 3 bn. We need to make sure with these all amendments
:50:40. > :50:44.that it is a Bill that is acceptable to most people. You're
:50:44. > :50:49.going to vote for a, then? I wish there were some recognition of the
:50:49. > :50:59.work that is being done to make this a more acceptable bill. Let's
:50:59. > :51:03.put the NHS first? Yes, let's do that. This debate, I suspect, is