:01:29. > :01:32.Coming up in half an hour: We'll have reaction to a poll
:01:32. > :01:42.revealing a majority of voters in four Yorkshire cities want to be
:01:42. > :01:42.
:01:42. > :31:34.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1792 seconds
:31:34. > :31:40.Hello, good morning. You're watching the Sunday Politics for
:31:40. > :31:46.Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Today, we're asking, "Who wants to see a
:31:46. > :31:48.Yorkshire Mayor?" Four of our cities will decide in a
:31:48. > :31:51.May referendum whether they want a new directly-elected mayor and
:31:51. > :31:56.voters in Doncaster will decide whether they want to keep their
:31:56. > :31:59.elected mayor. According to poll commissioned by the Sunday Politics
:31:59. > :32:09.and BBC Look North, a majority of Yorkshire voters appear to support
:32:09. > :32:09.
:32:09. > :32:14.the idea. And it yesterday as the current
:32:14. > :32:19.elected mayor of Doncaster, the Conservative MP for Keith late and
:32:19. > :32:23.the Labour MP for Penniston and the stock spinach. Peter Davis,
:32:23. > :32:28.according to the poll, the majority of people in Doncaster want to keep
:32:28. > :32:34.the Neil Bell system. Do you think people will be surprised at that?
:32:34. > :32:38.Perhaps. I will not fall into the trap of saying that this is the
:32:38. > :32:41.referendum but has been one. It is an opinion poll and that is the
:32:41. > :32:45.fault that count. What is more interesting is that all five cities
:32:45. > :32:50.and towns have come to the same conclusion and clearly people are
:32:50. > :32:53.fed up with local government. Before you were an MP, used to be
:32:53. > :32:58.the leader of Bradford City Council. Would Bradford benefit from a
:32:58. > :33:02.directly elected mayor? I am sure there -- and Shura Bradford will
:33:03. > :33:11.have the opportunity to opera -- Boyce its opportunity at that time.
:33:11. > :33:15.I don't think for my constituency, they want to be with Bradford. I
:33:15. > :33:19.would encourage them to vote against it. Angela Smith, a few
:33:19. > :33:26.weeks ago on a steady programme, Your leader Ed Miliband said that
:33:26. > :33:32.he was supportive of elected mayors. Are you share his enthusiasm?
:33:32. > :33:38.see the pros and cons. For me, there is a real danger in the model
:33:38. > :33:41.what is that you will end up having a contest which is dominated by
:33:41. > :33:46.personalities and the profile of the candidates rather than what
:33:46. > :33:50.they stand for. So, it is important not to fall into that trap. As a
:33:50. > :33:58.party, there is a wide variety of views and a thing that is very
:33:58. > :34:00.healthy. We'll find out the detail of a poll in a moment. But first
:34:00. > :34:03.let's find out what people in Bradford, Leeds, Sheffield and
:34:03. > :34:13.Wakefield can expect if they decide to support proposals for directly-
:34:13. > :34:19.
:34:19. > :34:22.elected mayors in those cities. In the next few weeks, you were to
:34:22. > :34:27.be hearing a lot more about directly elected mayors and are not
:34:27. > :34:30.talking about this lot. Here we are, were all the decisions are made.
:34:30. > :34:35.Sheffield Town Hall, where the councils collected we get together
:34:35. > :34:39.and decide what is right for the city. Fairly soon, it just one
:34:39. > :34:44.person might be making those decisions. In our poll in Yorkshire,
:34:44. > :34:47.60% of people told us they had no idea they could choose a new system
:34:47. > :34:54.later on this year and 90% of them told us they had been given little
:34:54. > :34:59.or no information about the Essentially, this is the biggest
:34:59. > :35:03.change in her city councils are run in the generations. Some of the
:35:03. > :35:06.councillor sitting here, they will have no power and it will all rest
:35:06. > :35:10.of the person sitting in this chair. They will have the loudest voice
:35:10. > :35:16.and do exactly what they want. The might make the rest of the Ten Tors
:35:16. > :35:19.feel like not bothering turning up. -- the rest of the councillors.
:35:19. > :35:23.have of course there's a point of turning up. Been to turn up to have
:35:23. > :35:28.a debate to make sure that the mayor's ideas and suggestions are
:35:28. > :35:31.properly scrutinised and debated and that the views of the people in
:35:31. > :35:36.your work but are there. We should be choosing the best way of
:35:36. > :35:40.speaking up for the city and not just designing a city for the
:35:40. > :35:44.convenience of the existing councillors. The government clearly
:35:44. > :35:54.wants cities to have elected mayors, but it will require a change of
:35:54. > :35:54.
:35:54. > :36:04.thinking for the politicians and for the public. The meat and select
:36:04. > :36:10.
:36:10. > :36:15.the leader of their party. -- the - Delight at elect the mayor who can
:36:15. > :36:20.then ride roughshod over that party if they choose to. More importantly,
:36:20. > :36:25.they can ride roughshod over the political process. Will appal me
:36:25. > :36:30.suggest a broad support in some adversities, councillors remain
:36:30. > :36:37.unconvinced. And I personally think, to impose an we're on the the
:36:37. > :36:41.existing city structures is a misunderstanding of how city and
:36:41. > :36:46.local government works. The do not fancy the job in? E should never
:36:46. > :36:53.say never. By think the people of Wakefield or welcome to a view and
:36:53. > :37:01.to hear the curtains for and against. -- to hear the arguments
:37:01. > :37:08.for and against. If they decide they want a mayor, I will seek the
:37:08. > :37:11.nomination. Plenty of work to be done in the next couple of weeks.
:37:11. > :37:19.The main political parties will have to come down on one side or
:37:19. > :37:23.the other. We have done our poll, but the one that counts is in me.
:37:23. > :37:28.James Spence and is in the studio now and he can give us more detail
:37:28. > :37:31.on that poll. 2,500 people were told in the last two weeks of
:37:31. > :37:36.February across fights -- five towns and cities where all my years
:37:37. > :37:42.are being proposed. Support was highest in Doncaster. 59% said yes,
:37:42. > :37:47.35% said No. A result that raised some eyebrows among politicians and
:37:47. > :37:56.observers, given the bitter political battles in town over the
:37:56. > :38:02.last ten years. Leeds 40 to 57% in favour of mayors. In neighbouring
:38:02. > :38:07.Bradford, 54% gave a meal will thumbs-up, 36% and the Orrell
:38:07. > :38:17.thumbs-down. Far less support in Sheffield, were 14% said yes to a
:38:17. > :38:18.
:38:18. > :38:21.more -- and beer. Wakefield had lost support, at 47%. Not a
:38:22. > :38:26.resounding thumbs up, but an apparent broad support for the idea.
:38:26. > :38:30.The real Paul is in me. Two other results for you now and there was
:38:30. > :38:36.at least apparently a greater willingness to turn up to vote in
:38:36. > :38:44.this referendum. 71% said they would and that is twice the normal
:38:44. > :38:49.turnout. 65% of those polled thought that any mayor should be
:38:49. > :38:55.paid under �50,000. Some interesting talking points
:38:55. > :39:00.there. Angela Smith, when you look at the average for Yorkshire, 53%
:39:00. > :39:04.Agassi's 37% in favour of elected mayors. A clear majority in your
:39:04. > :39:07.home city of Sheffield. Does that help you make up your mind?
:39:07. > :39:14.other really interesting statistic in those polls which is the one
:39:14. > :39:18.that indicates that over 90% of those polled did not or had not
:39:18. > :39:25.received any information about delighted Mailer model and the
:39:26. > :39:30.forthcoming referendum. I think that is quite worrying. I would
:39:30. > :39:34.congratulate the BBC on this because what you're doing, with
:39:34. > :39:38.this poor and this programme, and which you have been doing on radio,
:39:39. > :39:41.is actually helping to raise awareness of the issues involved
:39:41. > :39:45.and that can all would be good for democracy and it is very important
:39:45. > :39:48.that we deal with this. We must have rigorous debate between now
:39:48. > :39:55.and me if people are going to make their minds up on the issues and
:39:55. > :40:03.the rights and wrongs of the model, rather than on any other ground.
:40:03. > :40:06.Bradford, you district, 54% support this idea de accept there is a real
:40:06. > :40:11.public appetite for many years, whether they know enough about it
:40:11. > :40:15.or not? The whole referendum is a distraction from what are my people
:40:16. > :40:19.really want, what is not to be governed by Bradford. What I want
:40:19. > :40:24.to do is achieve an old fort here so that we can call another
:40:24. > :40:29.referendum, but coming out of Bradford Council. I like the idiot
:40:29. > :40:39.Shipley constituency and Dick Heatley and Auckley constituency to
:40:39. > :40:44.
:40:44. > :40:52.set up their own counsel. -- council. There is no saving here,
:40:52. > :40:59.just greater cost associated with it. The battles between the
:41:00. > :41:07.existing council base and elected mayor is not good for politics.
:41:07. > :41:11.we need more politicians? We need you. People clearly know about
:41:11. > :41:14.their local council and they are fed up with that. They have hordes
:41:14. > :41:18.of the councillors, three parties to be cannot tell the difference
:41:18. > :41:22.between, paying for the councillors, paying for a whole lot of political
:41:22. > :41:32.correctness in the policies and there is no concept of value for
:41:32. > :41:34.
:41:34. > :41:38.money. What the electorate see is that electing one man to do the job,
:41:38. > :41:43.they see that is pure democracy as a way through this. They can hold
:41:43. > :41:49.their electoral -- elected mayor to account, would the cannot get the
:41:49. > :41:54.Labour Party or that Tory party of Robert Democrats to do so. I have
:41:54. > :41:58.to say that all the evidence suggests that people know more not
:41:58. > :42:01.the name of the elected mayor than the do it all up the leader of the
:42:01. > :42:06.local council. Last May, in Sheffield, those people who took an
:42:06. > :42:09.interest in Sheffield knew they had a choice between the leader of
:42:09. > :42:17.Labour in Sheffield and the leader of the Lib Dems at the time. They
:42:17. > :42:22.made their choice. I think their advantages and disadvantages. I do
:42:22. > :42:25.not think that the idea of the strong leadership of the council in
:42:25. > :42:31.one person is necessarily the night and the other system, the system
:42:31. > :42:36.that most cities have at the moment. I think we have to be careful here
:42:36. > :42:46.in what the male role role is all about. It offers us a but -- it
:42:46. > :42:50.offers advantages, but that is that necessarily one of them. They do
:42:50. > :42:55.not -- the to know what they already have and they do not like
:42:55. > :42:59.it. Local council is held in very low regard. Good it was not an
:42:59. > :43:03.opinion poll on the local councils, I think that is the point. One of
:43:03. > :43:12.the advantages of the existing system is getting representations
:43:12. > :43:16.in two localities. -- into. It is difficult to reflect the needs of
:43:16. > :43:26.you're communities if you'll have one person sat at the centre of it.
:43:26. > :43:29.
:43:29. > :43:32.There is an issue of identity. Briefly, we heard from Andrew
:43:32. > :43:36.Carter in Leeds, a Conservative council who is appalled -- who is
:43:37. > :43:40.opposed amirs but has not ruled out the prospect of him standing. Do
:43:40. > :43:50.you think people are opposed to this idea, it they should not
:43:50. > :43:52.
:43:52. > :43:55.stand? At the end of the day, it is a game that we have. The evidence
:43:55. > :43:58.is there some 2% of the populace do not even know there is a poll
:43:58. > :44:02.coming up at the moment. That is where we have to goal. We have to
:44:03. > :44:08.engage at the public, explain what is right and what is wrong with it.
:44:08. > :44:12.A Sheffield chooses a male role model, it is critical that Labour
:44:13. > :44:16.puts forward a grid stronger candidate to is capable -- a good,
:44:16. > :44:21.strong candidate who is capable of exercising those powers in a way
:44:21. > :44:23.that is right for Sheffield and takes Sheffield Ford as it did.
:44:23. > :44:26.We'll deal with that as it comes forward.
:44:26. > :44:29.Doncaster was one of the trailblazing towns which voted for
:44:29. > :44:32.the introduction of the first wave of elected mayors a decade ago. And
:44:32. > :44:41.it's fair to say that opinion there is still divided over the merits of
:44:42. > :44:46.the mayoral system. Here's Len Tingle.
:44:46. > :44:50.1987 and Doncaster's council and racecourse was at centre of events
:44:50. > :44:55.that led to some of the town's darkest days. For decades, local
:44:55. > :44:57.councillors had been cleaned and dined here for free. A complaint to
:44:57. > :45:01.authorities started an investigation that uncovered much
:45:01. > :45:06.more than that. Over the next five years, two former council leaders,
:45:06. > :45:09.two former mayors, a planning chairman, Local private developer
:45:09. > :45:14.and well over a dozen other councillors were convicted of
:45:14. > :45:23.corruption. Charges ranged from catch -- cash bribes to fridge and
:45:23. > :45:32.expensive claims. Some receded jail time, and by that stage confidence
:45:32. > :45:37.in Ten Tors and councils had completely gone. -- counsellors.
:45:37. > :45:43.That is wide Doncaster became one of the first places in England do
:45:43. > :45:48.have a directly elected executive mayor. Into Martin Winter. In 2002,
:45:48. > :45:53.endorsed by Prime Minister Tony Blair, he stood and won the first
:45:53. > :45:57.election to be full-time salaried executive and Mayer. Elected in
:45:57. > :46:01.2005, he soon fell out with his own party. He was expelled and had
:46:01. > :46:07.umpteen a vote of no confidence against him, but he could do would
:46:07. > :46:15.be removed as executive mayor. In 2009, which -- voters shunned
:46:15. > :46:20.Labour's choice of candidate and it shows a new mayor from at the
:46:20. > :46:30.English are Democrat. I have a fairly radical agenda. That radical
:46:30. > :46:33.Labour as well. He struggled to pick a candidate -- cabinet, and
:46:33. > :46:37.the store's central government investigate their quality of
:46:37. > :46:44.governors and intervene by putting advisers in place. This makes a yet
:46:44. > :46:49.another clash, when Labour councillors -- councillors voted to
:46:49. > :46:54.save lives that he had decided to close. Two-thirds of people had to
:46:54. > :46:59.pass the amendment for it to be part of the Budget. We had the that,
:46:59. > :47:02.overwhelmingly and that council chamber. It becomes part of the
:47:02. > :47:07.Budget, but under the meal will system, then you can just ignore
:47:07. > :47:13.that. He does not have to implement it. That is totally undemocratic,
:47:13. > :47:17.in my book. Rob long along under both mares has been the threat of
:47:17. > :47:22.an official petition, successful gathering support to trigger what
:47:22. > :47:25.would it be a referendum to switch back to a conventional council. But
:47:25. > :47:33.has the tide turned to? Our poll suggests that of those who had an
:47:33. > :47:36.opinion, 59% will vote to keep the post. That makes it too close to
:47:36. > :47:39.call. What the state your colleagues are
:47:39. > :47:45.say that any oral system is undemocratic? For example, this
:47:45. > :47:53.week, the majority of Ten Tors bought the to open up to libraries
:47:53. > :48:00.and you overruled them. Let us go back. 2001, Doncaster voted for me
:48:00. > :48:05.oral system. In 2001, Martin Winter was elected, correctly. In 2005,
:48:05. > :48:10.elected again. 2009, I was elected. This is what the Doncaster people
:48:10. > :48:15.wanted. Sandra Holland finished third in that meal will election,
:48:15. > :48:20.she seems to have forgotten that. In May of this year, it may be that
:48:20. > :48:24.Doncaster changes its mind. Until then, the mayor of Doncaster is the
:48:24. > :48:27.person at Doncaster people want to rule Doncaster. Democracy is
:48:27. > :48:31.working. The Labour Party are whingeing because they have lost an
:48:31. > :48:36.election. It is rather strange that in Lewisham, in Leicester, in
:48:36. > :48:41.Liverpool, in Hackney, the Labour mayors are fine, but in Doncaster,
:48:41. > :48:45.they are not, because Labour lost an election. I am afraid this is
:48:45. > :48:49.very poor politics on the part of the Doncaster Labour Party. And let
:48:49. > :48:55.me also say that Ed Miliband is supporting me oral government in
:48:55. > :48:58.Doncaster. He absolutely has, and in the end it is for the people of
:48:58. > :49:03.Doncaster to make a judgment. As Sheffield MP, it is not my business
:49:03. > :49:07.to pass judgment on Doncaster. The point I would make is this. The
:49:08. > :49:11.reason why that Labour councillors in Doncaster are unhappy is because
:49:11. > :49:15.they wanted to keep those two libraries open, which they
:49:15. > :49:19.considered to be a very important for a very -- for local communities.
:49:19. > :49:22.That is all I will say on that. One of the potential problems with the
:49:22. > :49:24.meal role model is that its structure realises the
:49:24. > :49:30.relationships. We honour that relationships are critical to
:49:30. > :49:33.getting things done. We have councils on one side and then we're
:49:33. > :49:37.on the other, there is always the potential for conflict and
:49:37. > :49:41.entrenched attitudes which big business difficult. One of my point
:49:41. > :49:45.in all this is that that is crucial that would ever system is chosen,
:49:45. > :49:49.we have the people in there, the right people at winning elections,
:49:49. > :49:53.because these people have to be able to do business with other
:49:53. > :49:57.people and to make things work and to build consensus. That is the key
:49:57. > :50:01.point. You need consensus. I do not know where you have been coming
:50:01. > :50:06.from. Labour had been fighting amongst themselves for the last 20
:50:06. > :50:11.years in Doncaster Council and they are still doing that. Let us not
:50:11. > :50:16.talk about consensus about Labour Party in Doncaster. A I was not
:50:16. > :50:19.making a judgment. Why do people really interested in his service
:50:19. > :50:25.delivered. Despite all the notoriety and the drama associated
:50:25. > :50:28.with Doncaster's politics, and they have voted for another system, to
:50:28. > :50:35.only have 59% of the populace is not exactly a ringing endorsement
:50:35. > :50:42.of an electoral system. If you are sadder what is huge battle going on,
:50:42. > :50:46.tried to get things deliver it is very difficult. What I am concerned
:50:46. > :50:51.about is that local people elected as Ten Tors will be in conflict, in
:50:52. > :50:56.my constituency with a Bradford dominated Mayer and that is why I
:50:56. > :51:02.think it is wrong and I want people to vote against the referendum
:51:02. > :51:06.abetting we have a referendum to resolve that issue. What are the
:51:06. > :51:09.odds on Doncaster voting to retain the Meir? I that is a loaded
:51:09. > :51:15.question posed have given you poll, I'll take some credence from that.
:51:15. > :51:23.I suppose it is one that to two at the back right. I think 500 people