:01:34. > :01:38.Coming up in half an hour: Yorkshire business leaders call for
:01:39. > :01:48.public sector pay to be set at a local level.
:01:49. > :01:49.
:01:49. > :31:38.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1789 seconds
:31:38. > :31:41.And MPs unite to oppose the so- Hello, good afternoon. You are
:31:41. > :31:44.watching the Sunday Politics for Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Coming
:31:44. > :31:46.up today: Why people running their own
:31:46. > :31:50.businesses in Yorkshire are lobbying for regional pay in the
:31:50. > :31:57.public sector. And we look at the growing
:31:57. > :31:59.rebellion over plans to put VAT on static caravans.
:32:00. > :32:04.Business representatives have told the Sunday Politics it is essential
:32:04. > :32:09.public sector pay levels are set locally in future. The government
:32:09. > :32:11.is currently investigating how a system of regional pay could work.
:32:12. > :32:15.According to one estimate an average public sector worker in
:32:15. > :32:20.Yorkshire and the Humber earns �4 more per hour than someone in the
:32:20. > :32:25.private sector. The official pay gap shows public sector wages are
:32:25. > :32:28.13 per cent higher than those paid by private companies. So should a
:32:28. > :32:33.council worker get paid the same in Barnsley as Brighton, where the
:32:33. > :32:36.cost of living is much higher? The Institute of Directors, which
:32:36. > :32:46.represents 2.000 business leaders in our region, feels that is hard
:32:46. > :32:46.
:32:46. > :32:52.to defend. The reality is that we need to look
:32:52. > :32:57.at it closely and in detail. There is a degree of disparity. We need
:32:57. > :33:01.to have people working in the regions that are more expensive and
:33:01. > :33:04.had then rewarded accordingly. It would be difficult if we asked
:33:04. > :33:08.people to migrate to the south, knowing they would not get a
:33:08. > :33:13.waiting with regard to their pay. For continuity of individual
:33:13. > :33:16.working, I get a feeling it will be necessary. The CBI agrees with this,
:33:16. > :33:19.saying regional pay would help companies create new jobs by
:33:19. > :33:21.levelling the playing field on wages but unions and MPs from all
:33:21. > :33:25.parties, including Nick Clegg, are worried it will increase the North-
:33:25. > :33:34.South divide. We will hear from two of those MPs in a moment but here
:33:34. > :33:38.is the view of one businessman from Leeds.
:33:38. > :33:46.I run to businesses. I have been running my own business for 15
:33:46. > :33:48.years now. We employs six people. In the private sector there is a
:33:48. > :33:54.North-South divide. If you have an engineer working in Yorkshire, you
:33:54. > :34:01.will be on around �30,000 but one working in London would probably be
:34:01. > :34:06.on 40 or �50,000. There is a big difference on that side of things.
:34:06. > :34:11.I think it makes sense to do a similar thing in the public sector.
:34:11. > :34:17.One of those and one of those out for me today, please.
:34:17. > :34:23.A lot of my clients have taken pay cuts of up to 20 per cent. The
:34:23. > :34:27.majority it, consultants especially, have had pay freezes for the last
:34:27. > :34:34.three years. One times are hard we are have to bite the bullet. If it
:34:34. > :34:40.to me is cutting salaries for a while, we have to do it.
:34:40. > :34:44.Rds today are Martin Vickers, the MP for Leith or OPs, the MP for
:34:44. > :34:49.Hull East and Bernard's Coleman, at a Yorkshire businessman with strong
:34:49. > :34:55.views on public sector pay. Martin Vickers, many Conservative
:34:55. > :35:01.support the idea of regional pay but you are not one of them, is it?
:35:01. > :35:07.I would not go as far as that. I represent a low-pay area. I do have
:35:07. > :35:13.concerns as to how it will affect the people I represent. Will it be
:35:13. > :35:17.phased in it? Will it be a big bang approach? Also, how will it affect
:35:17. > :35:24.different reset -- different regions? Where were you draw the
:35:24. > :35:29.line? I am here to argue the case for my constituents.
:35:29. > :35:34.According to government figures, at people in the public sector in this
:35:34. > :35:39.region earned around �4 per hour more than people in the private
:35:39. > :35:44.sector. Is that there? This would do nothing for the North
:35:44. > :35:50.South divide. This figures might be correct but that is the real issue.
:35:50. > :35:54.It would not improve the economy in our area of the world. The reality
:35:54. > :36:00.is that Martin probably knows it is a bad idea and unfair and shows how
:36:00. > :36:05.out to touch the government is. If my constituency was looking to
:36:05. > :36:10.employee a teacher? There will have what they eat a be attracted to
:36:10. > :36:14.this area if they could get better pay elsewhere? It does not improve
:36:14. > :36:21.the local economy. It increases the divide between the north and south
:36:21. > :36:27.of of the country as well. Bernard's Coleman, let me bring you
:36:27. > :36:31.in. You have a business based in Leeds. You employ a number of
:36:31. > :36:36.people. Why does it bother you at that they earn less than people in
:36:36. > :36:41.the public sector? I expect to see value for the
:36:41. > :36:45.difference in the money. I do not see that. I interface with a public
:36:45. > :36:51.sector regularly. It also has an effect on the attitudes of people
:36:51. > :36:55.who work for any as, just as importantly, a sense of entitlement
:36:55. > :37:02.among people that they should be earning the same levels as those
:37:02. > :37:06.enjoyed in many areas in the public sector. That adds to this sense of
:37:06. > :37:11.entitlement and the sense of inflation are expected expectations
:37:11. > :37:16.within the economy. At the same time, I would want to see more
:37:16. > :37:20.flexibility within our public sector, of which pay levels is just
:37:20. > :37:30.a part. What you make love burn it at's
:37:30. > :37:31.
:37:32. > :37:36.arguments? Let us take well as an example. Why
:37:36. > :37:44.aren't the private sector snapping up all of these employees in that
:37:44. > :37:50.poor areas? It does not make sense. Some areas that had a great success
:37:50. > :37:56.in attracting businesses to invest in, for example, the building of
:37:56. > :38:00.motorcars a Washington. We are sitting in a city, Leeds, whose
:38:00. > :38:04.recent commercial success can be traced back to a young lad 30 years
:38:04. > :38:09.ago he got on a coach south and persuaded the bankers in London
:38:09. > :38:14.that you could process documents in Leeds faster and cheaper than you
:38:14. > :38:19.could in the centre of London. That persuaded a large number of lawyers
:38:19. > :38:28.to come to this city and we have enjoyed its author the benefits and
:38:28. > :38:34.being surrounded by lawyers. That is the argument of to usenet your
:38:34. > :38:38.assets to best advantage. The young lawyers in Leeds has a lower
:38:38. > :38:42.housing costs, lower salary costs and because they were not commuting
:38:42. > :38:46.three hours a day, when they got into the office they were a lot
:38:46. > :38:52.sharper than the poor souls in London who weren't spending a long
:38:52. > :38:56.time fleecing. Burn it, what do you make of the
:38:56. > :39:01.argument that it will lead to a brain drain with the best doctors
:39:01. > :39:11.and teachers for example moving down south? It does not work out
:39:11. > :39:11.
:39:11. > :39:18.why. Her you set up grades of wages. You encompassing neuritic, training
:39:18. > :39:22.and value to the regional economy and organisation. As someone in an
:39:22. > :39:27.industry that has suffered gravely in the last three or four years to
:39:27. > :39:32.be told that people in the public sector and another �4 per hour than
:39:32. > :39:36.people in the private sector does not make me happy, given the amount
:39:36. > :39:42.of debt that the country is carrying.
:39:42. > :39:49.Martyn, T you think the government will go ahead with this suggestion?
:39:49. > :39:54.-- do you think. Nick Clegg has expressed reservations.
:39:54. > :39:58.Bernard's does make a very good case. I am a centre-right
:39:58. > :40:02.Conservative who believes in the free market and I have sympathy
:40:02. > :40:09.with that. I am also conscious that in Northern Lincolnshire we'd find
:40:09. > :40:12.it very difficult to attract particular skills in the public
:40:12. > :40:17.sector. Things like public health inspectors and environmental health,
:40:18. > :40:22.it is difficult to attract people. I was in the JobCentre in Grimsby
:40:22. > :40:28.last week and the manager there entirely agreed the we had this
:40:28. > :40:33.problem. As I say, I am sympathetic. Carl takes too dogmatic a view on
:40:33. > :40:39.the opposite side. We need to news gently to was that.
:40:40. > :40:43.Burn it, it is OK in leafy Leeds. You might attract workers there.
:40:43. > :40:47.What you do about more difficult areas if people will be paid less
:40:47. > :40:52.there? You have to start thinking in terms
:40:52. > :40:57.of the regional economy. Pay is only one part of the package you
:40:57. > :41:01.offer when you sell the benefits of working in any given place. As the
:41:02. > :41:08.Ellesmere Port negotiation proved, it is not just pay but working
:41:08. > :41:12.practice, investment, training, language skills and history. It is
:41:12. > :41:17.complex. In the public sector we have had a view that you ask and
:41:17. > :41:21.you are given. Now you have to go and fight for this investment. To
:41:21. > :41:25.get the investment in your area, you need more flexibility.
:41:25. > :41:30.We will have to leave that particular debate for now. Thank
:41:30. > :41:34.you all for joining us. Pressure is growing on the
:41:35. > :41:41.government to drop the so-called caravans tax. Proposals to start
:41:41. > :41:45.charging VAT on static caravans to bring them in line with touring
:41:45. > :41:49.caravans are basic but opposition from many MPs. It is claims it will
:41:49. > :41:54.have a devastating effects on the economy of East Yorkshire when 95
:41:55. > :42:01.per cent of caravans are based. The timing of the announcement
:42:01. > :42:05.cannot have been worse for the owners of this weather up -- this
:42:05. > :42:11.Caravan Park in East Yorkshire. They have just invested �5 million
:42:11. > :42:15.in new facilities, including an indoor pool, spa, Jim and golf
:42:15. > :42:22.simulator. Then came the news that all new holiday times saltier will
:42:22. > :42:27.be hit by an average of �6000 in VAT costs.
:42:27. > :42:34.Someone from London goes out and buys eight second home. They will
:42:34. > :42:42.pay one per cent stamp duty. We are now asking the hard-working couples
:42:42. > :42:49.Toop spends 20 per cent a VAT on top of their second home. We cannot
:42:49. > :42:54.absorb that. It has to go somewhere. The National Caravan Council
:42:54. > :43:02.estimates that this rise will lead to more than 4000 job losses at
:43:02. > :43:06.holiday parks across the country. One of 1400 job losses in
:43:06. > :43:13.manufacturing and fists in hundred job losses among suppliers. That
:43:13. > :43:17.will lead to 7000 job losses in total. These Thatcher workers in
:43:17. > :43:21.Beverley fear for their future. Third a government to come back and
:43:21. > :43:25.levy a 20 percent increase on us is mind-blowing.
:43:25. > :43:30.At the moment the Government are doing a campaign on the TV for
:43:30. > :43:33.people to holiday in Britain so they should be backing the caravan
:43:34. > :43:39.industry. We are part of the tourism industry.
:43:39. > :43:42.Politicians from all sides have united against the so-called
:43:42. > :43:47.caravan Tax. Memories of votes in the House of Commons saw the
:43:47. > :43:50.biggest Tory rebellion since student tuition fees but is the
:43:50. > :43:56.Government's in the need to compromise?
:43:56. > :44:06.Wheatears thinking it is right that we try to deal with the static
:44:06. > :44:11.caravans fairly and consistently with other products. -- we do think.
:44:11. > :44:16.But we do want to listen to people and work out how this would work.
:44:16. > :44:22.They used to be a fantastic fishing industry in the UK, especially in
:44:22. > :44:25.this area. Government decisions killed at. It feels like they are
:44:25. > :44:29.doing the same again with the caravan industry and I think in
:44:29. > :44:35.five years we will look back and say we has a thriving manufacturing
:44:35. > :44:39.and caravan industry and tourism in the UK and one decision killed it
:44:39. > :44:43.off. The Treasury insists its VAT
:44:43. > :44:47.proposals are bare but thousands has signed a cross-party petition
:44:47. > :44:51.collet on the government to think again.
:44:51. > :44:55.Carl Turner, the government says this is about ironing out anomalies
:44:55. > :44:59.in the tax system. It is simply not true. It is
:44:59. > :45:03.another example of the government being completely out of touch and
:45:03. > :45:08.unfair. Why is it fair for someone who has worked hard and saved the
:45:08. > :45:13.money to buy a static caravan, why is it fair for them Saturday 20
:45:13. > :45:18.percent VAT but for someone who has a lot more money and wants to buy a
:45:18. > :45:23.Porsche crash -- a posh country cottage somewhere pays one per cent
:45:23. > :45:29.stamp duty? It is simply not fair. The Government is suggesting this
:45:29. > :45:34.is an anomaly. It is not. It is a deliberate exemption. It is there
:45:34. > :45:40.because static caravans have always been considered a second homes. In
:45:40. > :45:45.some cases nowadays it is people's first home. It is unfair and they
:45:45. > :45:50.need to put this to bed, tropics, it is just not going to help a
:45:50. > :45:53.manufacturing and employment in my area.
:45:53. > :45:57.Martin Vickers, you are one of the rebel Conservatives who voted
:45:57. > :46:02.against this in the House of Commons. The Government's abide by
:46:02. > :46:08.a majority 25. Do you think you can overturn this?
:46:08. > :46:12.I would like to think so. I hope the government takes note of the
:46:12. > :46:18.representations in the consultation that finished on Friday and rethink
:46:18. > :46:24.of best. It is potentially damaging for a seaside resort like
:46:24. > :46:34.Cleethorpes. As Carl. Sites, many people have caravans as first or
:46:34. > :46:35.
:46:35. > :46:41.second homes. -- as Carl points out. It does provide a great deal of
:46:41. > :46:43.employment for people who come into the leisure park. It is vitally
:46:43. > :46:48.important that we overturn this proposal.
:46:48. > :46:53.I do not accept that this is some sort of a loophole. I think it was
:46:53. > :46:59.a deliberate exemption. Even if we accept this is is somehow a
:46:59. > :47:03.loophole, this is the wrong tax at the wrong time. The impact
:47:03. > :47:10.assessments done by the government says that sales will drop by 30 per
:47:10. > :47:15.cent as a result of introducing this VAT. It is madness. We are in
:47:15. > :47:18.recession. The Government are making the wrong choices. It is
:47:18. > :47:21.just wrong. Martin Vickers, are you confident
:47:21. > :47:26.the government will change its mind?
:47:26. > :47:30.I am confident they will take note of the consultation. The industry
:47:30. > :47:35.has provided detailed evidence which I think will prove the case
:47:35. > :47:39.hands, my hope, is that the government will think again.
:47:39. > :47:46.Let us look at Mark Of the Week's political views with our round-up
:47:46. > :47:49.in 60 seconds. No easy ride for the heckled Health
:47:49. > :47:51.Secretary at the nurses' conference in Harrogate. Andrew Lansley claims
:47:51. > :47:57.staffing levels were unsafe at Leeds General Infirmary and
:47:57. > :48:01.Dewsbury, something both hospitals later denied. West Hull MP Alan
:48:01. > :48:06.Johnson has hinted he may challenge Boris Johnson to be the next mayor
:48:06. > :48:09.of London in 2016. He thinks Labour needs a fresh challenger. And
:48:09. > :48:13.Cleethorpes' Martin Vickers found himself used as ammunition at Prime
:48:13. > :48:17.Minister's Questions. What did the honourable member for
:48:17. > :48:20.Cleethorpes say? "We cannot convince voters we are on their
:48:20. > :48:24.side when we give top earners a tax cut, leaving Mr and Mrs Average
:48:24. > :48:28.reeling." What this government has done is
:48:28. > :48:31.deliver a tax cut for every single working person in the country.
:48:31. > :48:34.The government has approved �58 million to extend the South
:48:34. > :48:39.Yorkshire Super Tram to Rotherham and a long battle to get protected
:48:39. > :48:49.status for Lincolnshire sausages has failed. Campaigners had wanted
:48:49. > :48:53.
:48:53. > :48:58.recognition under European law, You saw Ed Miliband on the attack
:48:58. > :49:02.there. You can see how good his defence is where he based his
:49:02. > :49:11.questions for BBC Radio Sheffield listeners on Toby Foster at
:49:11. > :49:16.breakfast tomorrow between 9 and 10. Martin Vickers, you were quoted
:49:16. > :49:21.there by Ed Miliband. Do you regret making that statement?
:49:21. > :49:28.No, I am amazed that people in his office are searching Conservative
:49:28. > :49:33.websites for my articles. I am quite honoured by that. The way
:49:33. > :49:37.ahead described it, he left it hanging in mid-sentence. It is true
:49:37. > :49:41.that I made the point that there I am in favour of abolishing the
:49:41. > :49:46.higher rate of tax, I do not think it was the correct time to do it
:49:46. > :49:50.and I think that is self- evident. Going around Cleethorpes during the
:49:51. > :49:54.local elections, it gave people the wrong impression that the
:49:54. > :49:59.governments of around the site are the rich and not the working men
:49:59. > :50:04.and women of Cleethorpes. Sadly that is the incorrect impression
:50:04. > :50:08.they gained. But the government is trying to support hard-working
:50:08. > :50:11.families. We are going in the right direction but we made a mistake on
:50:11. > :50:16.that issue. Isn't this just mid-term blues for
:50:16. > :50:21.the Government's? I do not think the Government's are
:50:21. > :50:27.anywhere near where they should be at the moment. The Tories are
:50:27. > :50:36.losing seats at this stage. I think we have more than 800 extra seats
:50:36. > :50:41.since the last elections. Martin is not on his own with Tory MPs coming
:50:41. > :50:45.out and attacking the Government's. He is correct. You cannot convince
:50:45. > :50:48.the electorate to support the Tories when millionaires are
:50:48. > :50:53.getting a massive tax reduction as the poor are suffering as a result
:50:53. > :50:58.of policies which the governments are bringing in. He is not on his
:50:59. > :51:07.own. I think Cameron was described as a posh boy who did not know the
:51:07. > :51:08.price of a pint of milk by Nadine Dorries recently. I welcome those
:51:08. > :51:13.comments. One or a gross income Lincolnshire
:51:13. > :51:18.sausages. Did you choke on your sausage this morning?
:51:18. > :51:24.He it is tragic. They are the finest sausages in the land and
:51:24. > :51:27.deserve special recognition. There is no comparison with anything from
:51:27. > :51:32.Yorkshire. Lincolnshire is the place.