:01:43. > :01:44.Hello, good afternoon. You are watching the Sunday Politics for
:01:44. > :01:47.Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Coming up today:
:01:47. > :01:49.Why a senior Yorkshire Tory is fighting government plans to give
:01:49. > :01:52.the authorities more power to monitor our internet activity.
:01:52. > :02:02.And we find out why two of our councils have dropped costcutting
:02:02. > :02:03.
:02:03. > :28:59.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1616 seconds
:28:59. > :29:04.Hello, good afternoon. You are watching the Sunday Politics for
:29:04. > :29:08.Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Coming up today: why a senior Yorkshire
:29:08. > :29:14.Tory is fighting to give the authorities more power to monitor
:29:14. > :29:18.our internet activity. And we find out wide two of our
:29:18. > :29:24.councils have bend cost-cutting measures are to share a chief-
:29:24. > :29:30.executive. Our guest today is Meg Munn and
:29:30. > :29:33.Kris Hawkins. We're going to kick of with this snooping around where
:29:33. > :29:37.it the Government wants to give the authorities more power to keep an
:29:37. > :29:42.eye and as on the internet. Are you in favour of this? It is difficult
:29:42. > :29:47.to tell because they are complex. We need a balance between security
:29:47. > :29:52.and liberty. We know that there are worrying crimes whether it is
:29:52. > :29:55.internet crimes of child abuse or terrorism where we do need powers
:29:55. > :30:00.to be in place but equally, because the Government has not been clear
:30:00. > :30:06.about this, we have people worried about whether their privacy is
:30:06. > :30:11.going to be invaded. Kris, some Conservatives on the right are
:30:11. > :30:16.opposed to this idea, of weirdies stand? I think we have to do
:30:16. > :30:21.something. The last piece of legislation was 2006, it was the
:30:21. > :30:26.year before the iPhone came out. We now have over a billion people on
:30:26. > :30:31.Facebook and a huge increase in information over the internet.
:30:31. > :30:35.There are some really important issues around child-protection,
:30:35. > :30:40.fighting serious crime and defeating terrorism. This
:30:41. > :30:44.potentially adds another arm to the police's resources. Opposition to
:30:44. > :30:51.the bell is being led by the East Yorkshire-based Conservative David
:30:51. > :30:57.Davis. That some kit -- but some police officers say that it will be
:30:57. > :31:03.an important part in tackling online sex offenders.
:31:03. > :31:06.This is discreet and I would rather do it indoors. This raid carried
:31:06. > :31:10.out by Lincolnshire police this week was part of a national
:31:10. > :31:15.operation to crack down on those possessing indecent images of
:31:15. > :31:20.children. The Government wants to make it easier for up officers to
:31:20. > :31:27.monitor suspected offenders. They want to stay one step ahead of
:31:27. > :31:30.paedophiles. From my perspective as a police officer and an operation
:31:30. > :31:36.or reader I'm welcome any greater powers and increased options around
:31:36. > :31:41.this form of horrible criminality. As technology gets more
:31:41. > :31:45.sophisticated, the criminals themselves who shared these
:31:45. > :31:51.horrible images of children actually being abused, as they get
:31:51. > :31:55.better, we need to get better. proposed communications data bill
:31:55. > :31:59.would allow it the police and intelligence agencies to monitor
:31:59. > :32:05.our internet activity including e- mails and social networking as well
:32:05. > :32:10.as phone calls. Details would be stored for up to a year. However,
:32:11. > :32:16.authorities would only be able to access the nature of communication
:32:16. > :32:20.is not the content. Officials here at the Home Office say that
:32:20. > :32:25.accessing communications data is vital, not just for apprehending
:32:25. > :32:30.sex offenders, but also in the vast majority of terrorism cases. They
:32:30. > :32:35.denied these new proposals are snoopers' charter, but others
:32:35. > :32:40.disagree. The former shadow home secretary David Davis is a leading
:32:40. > :32:43.critic of the proposals. He has been taking part in an on-line
:32:43. > :32:50.question and answer section with Web users who are worried about
:32:50. > :32:54.their privacy. This gives a huge picture of people's lives. It is an
:32:54. > :33:00.intrusion of people's privacy and will not actually help catch
:33:00. > :33:06.tourism's -- terrorists at all. If you are at terrorist, you get round
:33:06. > :33:12.it with a pre-paid phone, using internet cafe, you use a proxy
:33:12. > :33:15.server. He used false credentials. This will gathered data on 60
:33:16. > :33:20.million innocent people, not catch criminals, and that is why I am
:33:20. > :33:23.against it. The proposals will be scrutinised by Parliament before
:33:23. > :33:27.legislation is introduced but already the battle lines have been
:33:28. > :33:33.drawn between those who believe any new law would help fight against
:33:33. > :33:38.crime and those who believe it is a licence to snoop.
:33:38. > :33:42.We have also been joined by James Baker from the No 2 IT campaign who
:33:42. > :33:46.is opposed to this bill. You heard that from a senior police officer
:33:46. > :33:52.in Lincolnshire. He says this new Bill will help them catch sex
:33:52. > :33:57.offenders, Heidi who argue against that? If it was just about sex
:33:57. > :34:00.offenders and tourists that would be one thing. If so, why does it
:34:00. > :34:05.allow it provisions for the Government to snoop on us. This
:34:05. > :34:09.isn't just a Bell about fighting crime at this is a Bill that will
:34:09. > :34:12.please millions of law-abiding citizens and the UK it under
:34:12. > :34:16.unprecedented levels of surveillance without a warrant.
:34:16. > :34:21.you heard there that this is not going to affect the content of e-
:34:22. > :34:27.mails. Police officers cannot read the content, it is about the
:34:27. > :34:32.communication and there are going and coming of those messages.
:34:32. > :34:39.can access that through another piece of legislation. What this
:34:39. > :34:43.bill includes is all of your browsing henge and -- history and
:34:43. > :34:48.anything that you've looked up. All of your information that we will be
:34:48. > :34:52.accessible. That will be for hundreds of public bodies including
:34:52. > :34:55.the food standards agency not just the police. Why do the food
:34:55. > :34:59.standards agency need to know what I'm saying on Facebook? The
:34:59. > :35:02.communications data includes all of their location of data. Every time
:35:02. > :35:08.you move about with your mobile phone the Government will be able
:35:08. > :35:12.to track where you are. To suggest that communications data isn't a
:35:12. > :35:19.problem is very misleading. You can tell a huge amount from it. You can
:35:19. > :35:23.build up a huge picture of people's lives. Technology is changing all
:35:23. > :35:30.the time, don't they it crime fighting bodies have to stay one
:35:30. > :35:34.step ahead? Nobody has been able to read every letter that you have
:35:34. > :35:38.sent to someone. So to suggest that any piece of technology requires
:35:38. > :35:43.this legislation is very misleading and what this Bill does his place
:35:43. > :35:46.those forms of communications and a new surveillance powers. So if you
:35:46. > :35:51.send a parcel now the Government will be able to snoop on that
:35:51. > :35:56.information. David Cameron said that we were in danger of living in
:35:56. > :36:00.a controlled state, why has he changed his mind? The Labour Party
:36:00. > :36:04.were talking about her central database where all this information
:36:04. > :36:10.was stored. At the moment most providers retain some of the
:36:10. > :36:13.information that we create. Most of the information it be great. What
:36:13. > :36:18.it there Government is suggesting, it is a draft bill by the way, that
:36:18. > :36:21.the information is retained for 12 months. And if someone wants to see
:36:21. > :36:26.the content of that they must go to the Home Secretary with the warrant
:36:26. > :36:30.and she must then sign that of to get it that access. There is huge
:36:30. > :36:34.amounts of data storage, it is about making sure that that data is
:36:34. > :36:37.secure, not controlled by the Government or the police, it is
:36:37. > :36:42.what the providers and it is at being asked to be retained the for
:36:42. > :36:46.12 months. Meg Munn, the Labour Government was criticised for
:36:47. > :36:51.trying to control many aspects of our lives. People do not want the
:36:51. > :36:55.Big Brother state, do they? No they do not. I think what we're seeing
:36:55. > :36:58.is the Conservative ministers are finding out that when they get into
:36:58. > :37:03.Government and get into these issues it is not quite as simple as
:37:03. > :37:09.David Cameron believed that in at 2009. It is a very complex issue
:37:09. > :37:13.and one that, quite rightly James is setting out, needs to be looked
:37:13. > :37:17.at properly. Parliamentary scrutiny of this is crucial. The key thing
:37:17. > :37:21.that we would all agree on is that people should not just be able to
:37:21. > :37:25.access this information. It should be on the basis of a warrant and
:37:25. > :37:30.that should have the proper judicial oversight. A James, how
:37:30. > :37:37.were you going to convince these MPs to back your campaign? Really
:37:37. > :37:40.why would ask MPs and everyone else is to look at the warrants. Who is
:37:41. > :37:44.signing of the warrants? Is that the Home Secretary or is it someone
:37:44. > :37:48.independent from the Government? What we have said is that you need
:37:48. > :37:52.magistrates and are just three there. The need to see whether it
:37:52. > :37:57.is proportionate and whether it is a terrorist or paedophile case or
:37:57. > :38:01.whether it is someone snooping into our private lives unnecessarily. It
:38:01. > :38:04.is very simple, while money to look at how the access the data and what
:38:04. > :38:14.permissions they have. interesting debate I suspect over
:38:14. > :38:17.the coming months on this one. In order to cope with tighter
:38:17. > :38:24.budgets the Government has been encouraging councils to share
:38:24. > :38:28.services. Many areas serve -- save taxpayers' money but in two
:38:28. > :38:35.councils in our area at the abandoning moves to share a chief-
:38:36. > :38:42.executive saying that the experiment has not worked.
:38:42. > :38:46.These made history years ago when they were operated jointly. They
:38:46. > :38:52.also shared at chief-executive and a team of the most senior and
:38:52. > :38:56.highest paid officers. But that between these two councils and that
:38:56. > :39:01.relationship has fallen apart. That is despite savings of well over a
:39:01. > :39:05.million pounds. The problem according to the leader of Richmond
:39:05. > :39:10.share council is that it was not clearly hammered out how they would
:39:10. > :39:14.do with their neighbours. politicians in our partner
:39:14. > :39:19.authority felt that we were spending -- he was spending along
:39:19. > :39:24.with his senior managers too much time attending to business over
:39:24. > :39:29.here in at Richmond Show. That is at the root of why we are at
:39:29. > :39:33.looking at some other arrangements for a shared services. It has been
:39:33. > :39:38.closely monitored here by think- tanks and pressure groups to seek
:39:38. > :39:44.shared services as a major tool to saving public money. They have to
:39:44. > :39:48.have a clear understanding of the division of hours. How many days as
:39:48. > :39:51.a chief-executive going to spend in each council. I think that has been
:39:51. > :39:54.their problem in North Yorkshire. Other councillors that were
:39:54. > :39:58.entering into these agreements will have to make sure that the
:39:58. > :40:07.necessary arrangements are in place to stop these deals collapsing
:40:07. > :40:12.completely. We started this in April last year. 100 miles south to
:40:12. > :40:17.Chesterfield. Hear those last lessons have been learned. These
:40:17. > :40:19.councils are meeting with the chief executive that they share. After
:40:19. > :40:25.one year of this they cannot understand why more councils are
:40:25. > :40:31.not going down this cost-saving route. I think people are not brave
:40:31. > :40:35.enough. I think they are frightened. It is a big step. It is a difficult
:40:35. > :40:42.decision to make. You have to take people with you and you have to
:40:42. > :40:47.entrust. People are frightened to go the extra mile. After the first
:40:47. > :40:51.year at we have achieved practically �1 million worth of
:40:51. > :40:55.savings. That is a million pounds that we are going to have to take
:40:55. > :40:59.from frontline services. Around two dozen smaller district councils
:40:59. > :41:03.around England and out sharing chief-executive and senior officers.
:41:03. > :41:07.That is fewer than might be expected with public spending so
:41:07. > :41:13.squeezed. Here in Derbyshire it is a move where everybody needs to
:41:13. > :41:18.know exactly what they're getting. Kris Hopkins, you are a former
:41:18. > :41:22.leader of Bradford Council, is it reasonable for more authorities to
:41:23. > :41:26.share back-office services? It is not as reasonable, it is absolutely
:41:27. > :41:30.essential. We should not just limited to councils either. Where
:41:30. > :41:35.it is appropriate I think NHS chief executives should share between
:41:35. > :41:41.councils also. There's a whole range of services that can be
:41:41. > :41:45.utilised with one chief-executive. The �1 million that they have saved
:41:45. > :41:48.that they were talking about there. When you try to restructure her
:41:49. > :41:54.daily services huge amounts of resources and less money is
:41:54. > :41:59.available. It is really important that you find savings there. Being
:41:59. > :42:03.clear about what you want to achieve and making sure that the
:42:03. > :42:06.individuals are accountable is really important. We have to
:42:06. > :42:10.explode those ways and I think it is working in one area and not
:42:10. > :42:16.someone else. I am sure they will explore why it has failed and the
:42:16. > :42:22.Wanderer dead. Cheeks executives earn much more money than most --
:42:22. > :42:29.chief executives. Some more than the Prime Minister. It is
:42:29. > :42:33.reasonable than? A what I think we saw their is whether the
:42:33. > :42:38.politicians at the top can work together. It might just be that
:42:38. > :42:43.those two areas were similar sorts of areas where it worked. I do
:42:43. > :42:49.wonder whether the change of leadership at politically at the
:42:49. > :42:52.top, if that were to happen, would be shared the same views. Or is
:42:52. > :42:55.something major happened in one area at what they council be happy
:42:55. > :42:59.to lose their chief-executive to work for a long time in another
:42:59. > :43:03.area. It is not straight forward but many things can be done. What
:43:03. > :43:07.we really have to look that is where there are proper communities
:43:07. > :43:12.of interest and for you can work together. I think Kris was talking
:43:12. > :43:15.about the NHS. That begs the question of why under the terrible
:43:15. > :43:19.reorganisation we got there we got more bodies with more leaders
:43:19. > :43:24.rather than bringing services together when it does make sense to
:43:24. > :43:34.have one leader. We will have to come back to that on another day.
:43:34. > :43:36.
:43:36. > :43:40.A let us get more news from the rest of the week now.
:43:40. > :43:43.Proposals to axe some of their Yorkshire regiments historic
:43:44. > :43:48.battalions are being described as at done deal by some of the
:43:48. > :43:52.region's MPs. Patrick Mercer says that their it cuts might be
:43:52. > :43:55.confirmed in early July. Calls are coming for a cross-party group to
:43:55. > :44:00.challenge the Defence Secretary over the cuts.
:44:00. > :44:04.More than 60 of his workers could lose their jobs in newly-privatised
:44:04. > :44:10.sections of Lincolnshire police. It comes just two months after 500 of
:44:10. > :44:13.his staff transferred to another area. Over the coming years I would
:44:13. > :44:19.be very surprised if there were not more job losses.
:44:19. > :44:28.And this rail link was politely received through gritted teeth by
:44:28. > :44:33.the Prime Minister. Well they at gut -- Government go-ahead well
:44:33. > :44:37.with the high-speed train? I grip over the enthusiastic endorsement
:44:37. > :44:41.at the that is important to get on board this high-speed rail
:44:41. > :44:47.revolution. A will come back to high-speed rail.
:44:47. > :44:52.First, Kris Hopkins, you are a former member of the army. The army
:44:52. > :44:57.cuts story, potentially a Yorkshire regiment losing its battalion, what
:44:57. > :45:00.you know about that? The Duke of Wellington's Regiment is the third
:45:01. > :45:05.Battalion. It is deployed in Afghanistan and have had some
:45:05. > :45:08.serious casualties. There is a lot of people at home are very
:45:08. > :45:13.concerned at this moment in time about the welfare of their loved
:45:14. > :45:22.ones. I think the speculation and the guesswork that has been picked
:45:22. > :45:27.out by certain individuals this week, I think, is fairly appalling.
:45:27. > :45:30.You mean you Conservative colleague. I think there is a range of can is
:45:30. > :45:33.derivative and other MPs who have spoken out. There are people
:45:33. > :45:37.leaving their lives on the line at the moment. There are people
:45:37. > :45:41.concerned about their loved ones. To put out this work and
:45:41. > :45:46.speculation about hunches about something that might happen in the
:45:46. > :45:50.future, that is not acceptable. I went to the defence secretary and
:45:50. > :45:54.specifically asked him if the third battalion has been targeted it is
:45:54. > :45:58.going to be axed. He said that no decision had been made about any
:45:58. > :46:05.unit in the British Army. So to put this into this arena when people
:46:05. > :46:11.are in such fearful situation for their loved ones at this moment. To
:46:11. > :46:16.talk about speculation, will it go? That is wrong. And I am fairly out
:46:16. > :46:20.raged about what has been said. Patrick Moser is not here to defend
:46:20. > :46:24.himself. Meg Munn, can you understand the need for cutbacks in
:46:24. > :46:29.the army? Of course every area of public service has had to be looked
:46:29. > :46:32.at. As you will know the Labour Party has had lots of concerns
:46:32. > :46:35.about the way the defence review was carried out in the way it is
:46:35. > :46:41.going forward. As Kris Wright be said this is not something that
:46:41. > :46:45.should be subject to speculation. It is not something that we want to
:46:45. > :46:49.make a political party football at all. The defence should come out
:46:49. > :46:53.and say exactly what is happening and what they expect to happen and
:46:53. > :46:56.be clear about it so that people know where they stand. This is a
:46:56. > :47:00.bit of a pattern where the information has not been picked out
:47:00. > :47:04.in the right way in the first place and what you then see is their
:47:04. > :47:07.Government running to catch up. That is not quite right. The
:47:07. > :47:12.Government has said that it will issue in weeks to come clear lines
:47:12. > :47:17.on which units will be removed and the numbers that will actually have
:47:17. > :47:22.to be removed. It is the guesswork now when people at busy fighting
:47:22. > :47:27.for at great cost at this moment in time. Those men are still extremely
:47:27. > :47:33.brave and they are risking their lives. It is wrong to speculate.
:47:33. > :47:38.that time we have left the high- speed train. The Prime Minister
:47:38. > :47:44.gave support this week by duty your question, Kris Hopkins. �32 billion
:47:44. > :47:49.is what we hear it will cost. Is it money well spent? There is a huge
:47:49. > :47:53.dependency on the public sector in the further and North. The way we
:47:53. > :47:58.change that is what better lines of communication and transport is one
:47:58. > :48:01.of those. At the end of the day, there are hundreds of people that
:48:01. > :48:05.are trying to get into a few seats. We're going to increase the
:48:05. > :48:09.capacity and ideally we are going to speed up the process. More to
:48:09. > :48:18.the point, will be spent a lot of money doing it which was under
:48:18. > :48:23.local businesses. Money well spent, neck? -- Meg? The governor needs to
:48:23. > :48:27.set out its overall transport policy. How are we and goods and
:48:27. > :48:30.services going to get around the country. It is not just about one
:48:30. > :48:35.area of Transport it is about looking at all of them is. There in
:48:35. > :48:38.a mess around airports. People need to know so that they can plan their