:01:37. > :01:41.Stay with us for the Sunday Pollux in the north as we find out why
:01:41. > :01:51.Labour and the Tories at at loggerheads over taxpayers' money
:01:51. > :01:51.
:01:51. > :37:07.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2115 seconds
:37:07. > :37:16.How low you are watching Sunday Politics for Yorkshire and
:37:16. > :37:22.Lincolnshire. Who pays the unions do - should taxpayers pay for trade
:37:22. > :37:27.unions. Does Labour still represent the Yorkshire vault that it there
:37:27. > :37:37.at party Labour shouldn't Westminster? Our guests today
:37:37. > :37:37.
:37:37. > :37:43.Angela Smith and Andrew Percy. Angela Smith, many activists will
:37:43. > :37:48.be heading over the Pennines today. What message will they want to hear
:37:48. > :37:52.from Ed Miliband? They will want to hear from Ed Miliband the kinds of
:37:52. > :37:59.messages we're going to need to persuade the electorate to give us
:37:59. > :38:03.that General Election victory in 2015. I am sure he can do that. We
:38:04. > :38:07.have a significant lead in the polls, we need to develop the
:38:07. > :38:12.confidence in the electorate that we can win that election and we
:38:12. > :38:21.deserved to win that election. Andrew Percy, you are still behind
:38:21. > :38:25.in the polls, are you sweating yet? A not yet. We are behind. I think
:38:25. > :38:30.from our conference what our party will want is to seek what we will
:38:30. > :38:34.be offering in the election that is different from the coalition. Maybe
:38:34. > :38:39.some talk about how we separate ourselves from the Liberal
:38:39. > :38:43.Democrats. I want to talk about the unions. The question we are asking
:38:43. > :38:47.today is - should taxpayers' money be used to pay the wages of union
:38:47. > :38:52.officials and or 10 balls? Conservative council leaders and
:38:52. > :38:56.North Lincolnshire want to stop funding their authority's only
:38:56. > :39:01.full-time union representative. They say the �50,000 budget would
:39:01. > :39:04.be better spent elsewhere. But union officials are angry inkling
:39:04. > :39:11.many council staff will not be properly represented in the
:39:11. > :39:17.workplace. From then rented dinner ladies to
:39:17. > :39:22.care workers, many council staff are members of a union. -- been
:39:23. > :39:27.workers. In North Lincolnshire this man represents over 2000 staff. His
:39:27. > :39:33.salary is paid from the local authority's budget. Council leaders
:39:33. > :39:38.no longer believe his post is money well spent. I am the person who
:39:38. > :39:44.know the policies and procedures inside out. I have been a big
:39:44. > :39:54.believer in prevention rather than confrontation which is why we have
:39:54. > :39:58.never had a big industrial problem in nearly 20 years. For me, it
:39:58. > :40:05.seems to be anti-union, and in the industrial relations and an
:40:05. > :40:10.ideological attack on trade unions. The Conservative-run authority here
:40:10. > :40:15.says it is planning to take the 50,000 pound budget currently spend
:40:15. > :40:21.on a full-time union convenor and reinvest it into 10 new
:40:21. > :40:26.apprenticeship places for young people. We have good relationships
:40:26. > :40:31.with their unions and I am sure that funding will come from
:40:31. > :40:37.members' contributions. What you say to those who say this is a
:40:37. > :40:40.politically motivated attack on the unions? I do not want to bring
:40:40. > :40:45.unions enter politics like that. This is a unique opportunity for
:40:45. > :40:50.our young people. I am very proud of what we're doing. You really
:40:50. > :40:57.only have to ask the general public hear what they want and they will
:40:57. > :41:04.say opportunity for jobs. Government itself last year said
:41:04. > :41:10.that for every pound spent on trade union facilities and public bodies,
:41:10. > :41:15.�3.90 pounds comes back in savings in terms of reduced absence lovers,
:41:15. > :41:19.better industrial relations, fewer industrial tribunals. That is an
:41:19. > :41:24.academic study commissioned by this Conservative Government. I've if it
:41:24. > :41:29.is more complicated. Conservative Ministers say they
:41:29. > :41:39.want to cut the number of taxpayer- funded union officials in our town
:41:39. > :41:39.
:41:39. > :41:45.halls. But saying -- some say there attack is politically motivated.
:41:45. > :41:51.Andrew Percy, this is your home patch. Is it right to scrap funding
:41:51. > :42:01.for the unions? Absolutely. If you asked the electorate out there what
:42:01. > :42:02.
:42:02. > :42:05.they want their money to be spent on, they will say they want jobs.
:42:06. > :42:13.If we want is bound up money and providing jobs for young people and
:42:13. > :42:18.that is what taxpayers' money expect the money to be spent on.
:42:18. > :42:26.Sheffield City Council spent more than �500,000.18 full-time union
:42:26. > :42:31.officials. Is that money well spent? What I l was found with
:42:31. > :42:36.having these officers in place is like you were able to develop the
:42:36. > :42:41.really good relationships necessary to avoid work plays illnesses,
:42:41. > :42:47.reducing the number of workplace illnesses and so on. So it actually
:42:47. > :42:53.saves money. That is the point made in the peace. For every pound spent
:42:54. > :43:00.on a trade union official, you are saving between �3.90 pounds. What
:43:00. > :43:08.taxpayers are expecting is an investor saved optioned to deliver
:43:08. > :43:17.the efficiencies and the work for us that isn't always, you do not
:43:17. > :43:26.get the tribunals, you do not get the almost Lovells, the appliances
:43:26. > :43:30.-- illness levels, the tribunals. They have millions of pounds that
:43:30. > :43:39.they go to the Labour Party. If it saves money and it is good for
:43:39. > :43:43.workers, why do not -- the use -- why do they not used money to
:43:43. > :43:47.provide jobs which is what we want to do. I think North Lincolnshire
:43:47. > :43:54.will find that is a false efficiency. I think Andrew has
:43:54. > :43:59.given the game away. We have seen an ideological attack by a local
:43:59. > :44:05.Government on the ideas of the trade unions. They have been
:44:05. > :44:10.supported by their friends in the local Democrats. The BBC itself
:44:10. > :44:18.pays for full-time union officials, even the BBC does that. It is not
:44:18. > :44:28.just local authorities. When the new director general sees the books,
:44:28. > :44:29.
:44:29. > :44:38.he might change that. It is a false efficiency FA does that. -- if he
:44:38. > :44:45.does that. At the end of the day, everybody expects our forced to
:44:45. > :44:50.work co-operatively and to negotiate sensibly. There are
:44:50. > :44:54.plenty of unions that get none. money invested by local authorities
:44:54. > :44:59.is for the benefit of the local as our days as much of their
:44:59. > :45:06.membership. That is why it is right the local authority should make a
:45:06. > :45:10.contribution. This goes to a small number of unions in North
:45:10. > :45:16.Lincolnshire. Her can Labour afford to stand up to the unions and the
:45:16. > :45:22.current climate? You still get 90% of their funding from local -- from
:45:22. > :45:26.trade unions, don't you? We want as sensible relationship with the
:45:26. > :45:30.trade unions and that is why it is the same principle. We want a
:45:30. > :45:36.sensible relationship with the trade unions in the same way that
:45:36. > :45:40.we believe that local authorities and all good employers should have
:45:40. > :45:45.a good relationship with the unions. It works and other countries like
:45:45. > :45:50.Germany incredibly well. It is a false economy to suggest this is
:45:50. > :45:56.money they could be saved and spent elsewhere. It will lead to more
:45:56. > :46:03.expensive long run. Some Conservatives won even tougher
:46:04. > :46:08.conditions. Do you support tougher anti-union legislation? I do not.
:46:08. > :46:13.The balance our we are at the moment is probably correct. There
:46:13. > :46:17.is an issue when there is a ballot and so many people voted.
:46:17. > :46:22.Personally I do not think that is good to change. That would be seen
:46:22. > :46:25.as too much of an attack and a step too far and we have to be
:46:25. > :46:29.reasonable and except that there are a lot of people who choose not
:46:29. > :46:36.to vote in a ballot. Where we are at the moment is a reasonable
:46:36. > :46:45.balance. On this issue of taxpayers funding, we should move on that. I
:46:45. > :46:51.think the current legislation is all right at the moment. It is
:46:51. > :46:57.0.05% of local authority funding we're talking about here. It would
:46:57. > :47:02.be better spent providing 10 jobs for young people. It would cost
:47:02. > :47:07.�150,000 on more or in the measure you are bringing up. A Labour has
:47:07. > :47:11.had a good year on the hall winning council seats and maintaining a
:47:11. > :47:15.healthy opinion poll lead, there has been a large fly in Ed
:47:15. > :47:20.Miliband's ointment in the form of George Galloway.
:47:20. > :47:24.His victory in the Bradford West by-election raise questions about
:47:24. > :47:28.there was still such a thing as a Labour heartland. Len Tingle has
:47:28. > :47:32.been speaking to the Labour leader about the challenges that lie ahead.
:47:32. > :47:37.If it is nearly six months since George Galloway took away the
:47:37. > :47:42.Labour seat in Bradford West. Just four nonsense his Respect Party
:47:42. > :47:47.ousted the then Labour leader of Bradford City Council and won five
:47:47. > :47:51.seats of their own. So will Labour leader Ed Miliband used this week's
:47:51. > :47:57.conference to rally his troops to rebound from those setbacks in one
:47:57. > :48:01.of his party's traditional heartlands? This conference is not
:48:01. > :48:10.about our troops. It is much more about the public. We want is away
:48:10. > :48:15.want to rebuild -- Britain and our economy with practical ideas. 4th
:48:15. > :48:20.how we can help her businesses grow in the future. There is a different
:48:20. > :48:26.view from this professor. He is an expert and grassroots political
:48:26. > :48:30.support and in the way the public sees politicians. It shows the
:48:30. > :48:33.notion of core support, loyalists and says seats is changing and
:48:33. > :48:38.British politics. You may have support in one area but getting a
:48:38. > :48:44.boat out to vote for you are being able to rely on their rock-solid
:48:44. > :48:49.supporters clearly changing. think there has been a problem in
:48:49. > :48:53.getting the successes of the Labour council out into the public domain.
:48:53. > :48:58.And I also think that Labour councils are also getting the blame
:48:58. > :49:02.for cuts there being imposed on us by the coalition Government. But
:49:02. > :49:07.what we're continuing to do is the hard work, learning the lessons
:49:07. > :49:12.from earlier in the year. But that next message is not only come from
:49:12. > :49:18.Bradford. 45 miles south is probably its strongest heartland
:49:18. > :49:24.and has been since the 1930s. There is a town there were the party is
:49:24. > :49:28.simply not getting entirely its own way. Three years ago the tiny party
:49:28. > :49:31.English Democrats pushed Labour aside into the powerful post of
:49:31. > :49:35.elected mayor of Doncaster and despite Labour campaigning this
:49:35. > :49:40.year to have the post abolished altogether in a referendum the
:49:40. > :49:50.public decided to keep it. There was a lot of issues that happened
:49:50. > :49:51.
:49:51. > :49:56.in 2009, not least that Labour's power for 30 years, -- 13 years,
:49:56. > :50:00.the MPs' expenses. They lost a lot of credibility as politicians are
:50:00. > :50:04.at that time. We will be talking about how we can do other things
:50:04. > :50:08.they can show that we are a Labour Party that is not just a London
:50:08. > :50:13.party, we are no party across this country. It is true about the
:50:13. > :50:18.Labour Party but it is important that we reject. I want to say at
:50:18. > :50:22.this conference that we can make a difference. This conference and a
:50:23. > :50:30.couple of by-elections later this month should put that to the test.
:50:30. > :50:34.That was an interesting cloud there. He said voters are less likely to
:50:34. > :50:41.vote on block any more. Do you fear they are Heartlands aren't always
:50:41. > :50:47.going to be there? Away learn that lesson a long time ago. The dates -
:50:47. > :50:53.- des when you could take votes for granted are long gone. That era has
:50:53. > :50:58.gone now and it is never going to return. So Labour has to work hard
:50:58. > :51:04.to win those votes. All I would say on this, frankly, is that all the
:51:04. > :51:10.evidence says that the Labour Party has given up on South Yorkshire. It
:51:10. > :51:14.is not representing the interests of the people of Yorkshire or in
:51:14. > :51:19.Government and their washing our hands of us. David Cameron said
:51:19. > :51:29.that there a day when the Tories do well in that area, hell will freeze
:51:29. > :51:32.
:51:32. > :51:38.over. Have the Tories Wash Their hands of Yorkshire? I do not think
:51:38. > :51:44.so. More people have voted for us. We had Labour loses a town in one
:51:44. > :51:53.of their safest areas. They are struggling with their core vote.
:51:53. > :51:58.And money coming through their -- Humber area, it is money coming
:51:58. > :52:02.from central Government to Yorkshire. Why our labours saw
:52:02. > :52:09.ahead in the polls? I think everything comes down to the
:52:09. > :52:13.economy. Anybody in Government understands that. Certainly at the
:52:13. > :52:18.moment the economy is not doing well for whatever reason and we
:52:18. > :52:23.will be punished in the polls. If they economy comes right by the
:52:23. > :52:26.General Election, logically then we will do better by then. There is
:52:26. > :52:31.absolutely no doubt that the voters are looking carefully at how the
:52:31. > :52:36.economy is looking. Borrowing this year is already up by a quarter on
:52:36. > :52:41.what it was last year, despite Osborne's promise to reduce
:52:41. > :52:46.borrowing by the next election. Price rises are higher than wages
:52:46. > :52:51.and we're back in recession. We have one million young people on
:52:51. > :52:56.the dole. That is why Labour, despite what you're saying, is
:52:56. > :53:03.trying to build and people are beginning to back Labour again. We
:53:03. > :53:10.do very well in the local elections, we have won back a number of local
:53:10. > :53:13.councils including Wakefield. I think that the Tories and Liberal
:53:13. > :53:18.Democrats have got to start thinking again and start listening
:53:18. > :53:25.to voters. That is what we're doing, we are listening to voters and we
:53:25. > :53:30.are determined to deliver a programme that the people want.
:53:30. > :53:39.you look at all the polling about who would be the best Prime
:53:39. > :53:44.Minister, the Labour leader does not score well. In terms of the
:53:44. > :53:48.economy, in its me laugh when Labour say we are in a double dip
:53:48. > :53:53.recession. Labour did not tell us when we were in the first recession
:53:53. > :54:02.will stop although borrowing is high, it is a low mark than when
:54:02. > :54:07.Labour were in office. There are two sets every -- argument.
:54:07. > :54:14.Miliband's personal ratings are still below David Cameron. That has
:54:14. > :54:24.to worry Cameron and his team and far as Nick has been concerned, he
:54:24. > :54:35.
:54:35. > :54:39.has been lagging far a long time. I think in Miliband is providing
:54:39. > :54:49.leadership that the party is looking for. -- Ed Miliband. He is
:54:49. > :54:53.ahead of the game on a lot of their stories of interest lately, he has
:54:53. > :54:58.always been a dead of the game. I think the electric know that and
:54:58. > :55:02.they will support that. -- ahead of the game.
:55:02. > :55:08.Now let's get some more of the week's political news and are part
:55:08. > :55:14.of the world. Nick Morris has around up and 60 seconds.
:55:14. > :55:17.Last year we highlighted the scandal of Yorkshire girls as young
:55:17. > :55:27.as 12 being groomed, rate and forced into prostitution by
:55:27. > :55:33.criminal gangs. This week more shocking revelations. This is an
:55:33. > :55:40.absolute scandal in our midst and may have to be very firm and have a
:55:40. > :55:45.public inquiry with us all brought into the open. Major floods, even a
:55:45. > :55:52.stretch of the one under water. Rebecca Taylor says the EU can help
:55:52. > :55:56.but it needs better planning. happened in 2007 is that the
:55:56. > :56:01.Netherlands Len some palms. There was a delay because nobody worked
:56:01. > :56:11.out how they could transport them. At the Liberal Democrat conference
:56:11. > :56:19.this week, there were suggestions that business would move to the
:56:19. > :56:23.North because it was cheaper to employ people. This was rejected.
:56:23. > :56:30.I am not a big fan of it and I told the Chancellor that and the Prime
:56:31. > :56:39.Minister that. I cannot go back to my constituents and say that
:56:39. > :56:43.teachers should be paid less in Goole and not in Surrey. A public
:56:43. > :56:49.inquiry into this problem of criminal gangs targeting young
:56:49. > :56:54.girls - would you like to see a public inquiry? I do. We know this
:56:54. > :57:01.is a serious issue. It is about time we stopped blaming the victims
:57:01. > :57:06.when things like this happen. We have got to have a really deep
:57:06. > :57:11.rooted -- de root-and-branch investigation into what went wrong
:57:11. > :57:15.here. South Yorkshire Police, I have always had an excellent
:57:15. > :57:21.relationship with South Yorkshire Police. I have always found them
:57:21. > :57:28.keen to work with the community. But it clearly has questions to
:57:28. > :57:34.answer here and I think a public inquiry is the only way to do that.
:57:34. > :57:37.Anton lot until our programme last year, he said police and others
:57:37. > :57:42.were hampered by political correctness because most of their
:57:42. > :57:49.perpetrators were Asian gangs. Is that a problem that you feel needs
:57:49. > :57:54.addressing? -- their children's Minister said to her programme.
:57:54. > :57:59.need to be careful about talking about cultural issues. But we need
:57:59. > :58:03.a public inquiry to bring all of this out into the open. I support a
:58:03. > :58:12.100%. One of flooding, was there anything we could have done to have
:58:13. > :58:16.been better prepared this week? Since 2007 we have seen the
:58:16. > :58:22.Environment Agency take its approach -- changed its approach
:58:22. > :58:27.quite rapidly. We have seen significant investment in trying to
:58:27. > :58:32.deal with the problem at source, which in the case of water is
:58:32. > :58:35.always the catchment area. We are all missing good investment in
:58:35. > :58:41.improving water management so that we can absolutely reduce the risk
:58:41. > :58:48.of flooding to the minimum. Whether or not or could be done, I wouldn't
:58:48. > :58:58.like to say, because our area this time, thank goodness, was all right.
:58:58. > :59:03.
:59:03. > :59:13.I think it will have a -- to be seen what the results of the
:59:13. > :59:13.
:59:13. > :59:23.investigation bring about. Constituents are having problems
:59:23. > :59:25.
:59:25. > :59:32.with insurance. As Angela said, you cannot guarantee that every area or
:59:32. > :59:39.with flooding candy effectively disbursed. We're seeing more
:59:39. > :59:49.extreme weather. The Environment Agency have had its funding cut
:59:49. > :59:50.
:59:50. > :59:54.considerably. That is a real risk be in terms of dealing with issues.
:59:54. > :59:56.We have to leave it there. That's about it from the Sunday