:01:20. > :01:25.On the Sunday Politics in Leeds: We speak to the Yorkshire business
:01:25. > :01:35.people who have different views on whether we should stay in or get
:01:35. > :01:35.
:01:35. > :39:57.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2301 seconds
:39:57. > :40:00.Good afternoon from the Sunday Politics in Leeds. Coming up: We
:40:00. > :40:10.speak to the Yorkshire business people who have very different
:40:10. > :40:12.
:40:12. > :40:15.views on whether we should stay in or get out of the EU. Our guest
:40:15. > :40:19.today I'll Fabian Hamilton, the MP for Leeds North-East and Andrew
:40:19. > :40:24.Percy, the MP for Brigg & Goole. When David Cameron does make his
:40:24. > :40:29.delayed speech on Europe, what do you want to hear? It has been more
:40:29. > :40:33.leaks than a sieve. We have got a good idea of what is going to be in
:40:33. > :40:38.it. I want to hear confirmation that Britain has its place at the
:40:38. > :40:43.heart of Europe, as we should be, not that we are iffy about it. He
:40:43. > :40:48.has got to be absolutely clear. It is in Britain's interests, socially
:40:48. > :40:53.and politically and economically, to continue to be part of Europe
:40:53. > :40:58.and get more deeply involved in shaping the Europe of the future.
:40:58. > :41:03.He has warned he could be heading for the exit. Andrew, you would
:41:03. > :41:08.show him the door? Up I would happily see us leave the EU. It is
:41:08. > :41:12.not our opinion that matters. I want to see the British public are
:41:12. > :41:20.consulted. There were people born after the referendum and have never
:41:20. > :41:25.had a say in Europe. Let them make that argument to the British public
:41:25. > :41:29.if they think it is good and let them decide. First, let us hear the
:41:29. > :41:33.views of some business people from Yorkshire. Are they happy with our
:41:33. > :41:42.current role in that EU? Do they think we should renegotiate with
:41:42. > :41:48.Brussels or do they believe we should get out altogether?
:41:48. > :41:53.operate 80 vehicles based on international and domestic haulage
:41:53. > :41:57.requirements. It could be important for us to deal with Europe. We
:41:57. > :42:02.supply it transport services to them and deliver a lot of
:42:02. > :42:06.containers that have originated in Europe. We deliver them all round
:42:06. > :42:11.the north of England. I am happy to renegotiate our position, in the
:42:11. > :42:15.sense we pay too much to be a member of this club perhaps. I do
:42:15. > :42:20.not agree that we should be out of Europe altogether. The people that
:42:20. > :42:27.say that are not fully aware of how much businesses in general in the
:42:27. > :42:32.North of England are dependent on Europe. A my name is Dorothy Hess.
:42:32. > :42:37.It is a property rental business that I run. We are better off out
:42:37. > :42:44.of Europe. The employment laws make it so local business people feel as
:42:44. > :42:49.though they are afraid to employ people. We are under bureaucracy.
:42:49. > :42:55.We are being governed by people who are not elected. That is not
:42:55. > :43:00.democracy to me. David Cameron said he believes he wants to be in
:43:00. > :43:05.Europe. I would beg to differ. He has no idea what the people of this
:43:05. > :43:10.country are feeling. It is only a year ago I was tearing my
:43:10. > :43:16.Conservative card up because of a remark he made about a referendum
:43:16. > :43:25.and it was not up for debate. That was the death of democracy. I used
:43:25. > :43:33.to run a company in Hull. By now chair a Local Enterprise
:43:33. > :43:43.Partnership. -- I now chair. The benefits of being in Europe about
:43:43. > :43:43.
:43:43. > :43:48.way -- outweigh the negative points. I am negotiating for a possible
:43:48. > :43:52.very large investment in Hull. That is by a splendid German company who
:43:52. > :43:57.made turbines which would be part of the offshore wind farm
:43:57. > :44:02.development in the North Sea. Huge potential investment for this area
:44:03. > :44:08.and for the country in general. My guess is, if Britain was not a
:44:08. > :44:13.member of the EU, they would not even be talking to us. They would
:44:13. > :44:20.be working away doing it in Denmark or Germany or France. That is just
:44:20. > :44:27.an example. The links with the European Union also important to
:44:27. > :44:31.the National and the local economy. -- are so important. He says
:44:31. > :44:37.companies like German companies would not invest in this country if
:44:37. > :44:44.we were not in the EU. A I do not agree. We are hoping to get other
:44:44. > :44:50.countries here -- other companies here for British turbines, paid by
:44:50. > :44:55.for the British, to be put in the North Sea. This fails to recognise,
:44:55. > :44:59.if we did leave the EU, there has to be a treaty on which we leave.
:44:59. > :45:09.That would involve an agreement on free trade. Largely because we
:45:09. > :45:09.
:45:09. > :45:15.import a lot from Europe than we export. We have been joined by Rita
:45:15. > :45:23.Britton, who runs the Polly and her -- who runs that Pollyanna company.
:45:23. > :45:26.How important is our membership of the EU to your business? Incredibly
:45:26. > :45:32.important. I fly out to Paris tomorrow morning, weather
:45:32. > :45:39.permitting, and most of my business is done in Euros. I deal with all
:45:39. > :45:44.companies in Paris, they can be German, Japanese, French, American.
:45:44. > :45:49.I think it is incredibly important we stay in Europe. I heard a
:45:49. > :45:58.Conservative peer the other day on the radio say he wanted his country
:45:58. > :46:07.back. Whose country does he want that? The one I was born in two? I
:46:07. > :46:15.have a six-year-old grandson who is not a genius and he speaks four
:46:15. > :46:21.languages. He is part of the European culture. Why not let the
:46:21. > :46:30.British people have a say? Let me finish. You are telling us what the
:46:30. > :46:37.British people want. Let them have a say. Be well-mannered, like a
:46:37. > :46:44.good European. I am not a European. I would take to task the fact you
:46:44. > :46:51.say we import more than we export. Why do we have people like the man
:46:51. > :46:58.with his lorries saying how important... Let me finish. You are
:46:58. > :47:04.a politician. Let him respond to your point. Appoint mac is
:47:04. > :47:10.important. She wants to maintain access and free trade. -- her a
:47:10. > :47:18.point is important. There are countries outside of the EU which
:47:18. > :47:24.have free trade with Europe. We want to maintain that. Europe's
:47:24. > :47:27.percentage of world trade is falling year-on-year. Should we be
:47:27. > :47:34.going back to a trading relationship which we had with the
:47:34. > :47:44.Common Market? No. We are part of Europe. Our future is within Europe,
:47:44. > :47:46.
:47:46. > :47:51.not just with a trading -- not just as a trading partner. My father was
:47:51. > :47:56.in World War II. He was passionate about European Union and it being
:47:56. > :48:02.the only way we would ensure not to have a war. Our father had a
:48:02. > :48:07.different view. But that is not relevant. I do not understand why
:48:07. > :48:12.people are set -- why people are frightened of this. Why not let the
:48:12. > :48:16.people have a say? Instead we get patronised. The people cannot have
:48:16. > :48:20.a referendum because the elite of this country have decided the
:48:20. > :48:29.European Union is where we should be. Would you have votes on
:48:29. > :48:35.everything else? People of vote for political parties... When you came
:48:35. > :48:45.to office in 1997, I am assume -- I assume you allowed the Scottish
:48:45. > :48:47.
:48:47. > :48:52.people to have a say on how they voted their. That is completely
:48:52. > :48:58.different. Please can I say something? This is a big fear with
:48:58. > :49:07.me. If we come out of Europe, trade will fall, investors will fail --
:49:07. > :49:13.fall away. I am seeing the pound's fall against the euro. What would
:49:13. > :49:17.happen... Let me finish. What would happen is you might as well build a
:49:17. > :49:22.big wall around London. London would be fine. But the rest of us
:49:22. > :49:26.would not. The rest of us would struggle. Let us make these
:49:26. > :49:30.arguments to the British public. I want to trust the people. We are
:49:30. > :49:36.hearing the people do not have the right to say anything. Let them
:49:36. > :49:40.have a referendum. Why what Labour commit to a referendum? There is no
:49:41. > :49:45.need to have a referendum. We are part of Europe. We need to reform
:49:45. > :49:50.Europe and the central to it. Our destiny in the future is within
:49:50. > :49:54.Europe. If you want to get out of Europe, vote for UKIP. What about
:49:54. > :49:58.the red tape and employment law that has made it harder for them to
:49:59. > :50:04.run their businesses? A we need to be at the head of that table
:50:04. > :50:13.guiding and getting rid of... have enough bureaucracy a foreign
:50:13. > :50:20.country to control. -- in our own country we need to be controlling
:50:20. > :50:25.the situation and getting rid of the wrecked -- grid of the red tape.
:50:25. > :50:32.The argument about reform has been made for years. We never get the
:50:32. > :50:36.reform. Remember when Tony Blair gave away the rebate? It did not
:50:36. > :50:43.happen. I do not have a problem with renegotiation which gives us
:50:43. > :50:48.power was back. The reality is, there is no appetite for that on
:50:48. > :50:52.the Continent. This reform agenda never happens. We are coming to the
:50:52. > :50:57.point where the British people, and that is why listen to, have decided
:50:57. > :51:06.they have had enough and they want to have a say about the way their
:51:06. > :51:11.country is governed. Why not trust the people? Look at investors in
:51:11. > :51:17.Japan. We are part of the EU. By one to have a debate. You're not
:51:17. > :51:21.prepared to allow that debate to take place. -- I want to have a
:51:21. > :51:27.that debate. Do you think the people of Barnsley would want to
:51:27. > :51:32.have their say? We have to be very careful about referendums because
:51:32. > :51:39.we have two political men here who cannot agree on which way we should
:51:39. > :51:48.be going. I think... I agree, we have elected a government to make
:51:48. > :51:53.the decisions. The Norway have 4 million people. I think we have
:51:53. > :51:57.elected a government, I do not like that, I can vote for a different
:51:57. > :52:07.government. You would not allow an election of police and crime
:52:07. > :52:12.commissioners? No. It is that time of the year when cash-strapped
:52:12. > :52:17.families are most likely to turn to loan sharks who charge exorbitant
:52:17. > :52:21.rates in many cases. Across Yorkshire, there are a number of
:52:21. > :52:25.charities set up to avoid people getting bogged down in debt. Many
:52:25. > :52:32.of these organisations are now asking for help from the Government
:52:32. > :52:41.because they themselves cannot borrow from the banks. Refurnish,
:52:41. > :52:47.based in this industrial park, is a highly unusual business. You employ
:52:47. > :52:51.a 38 people? That is a big workforce. It is. We do a lot of
:52:51. > :52:56.things. People assemble furniture, we have drivers who collect
:52:56. > :53:00.unwanted furniture. What has been put to get their here is a brand-
:53:00. > :53:04.new and sold by top of the range high street shops but was rejected
:53:04. > :53:09.and returned by a customer because slight damage already part was
:53:09. > :53:14.missing when the box was opened. the past, the retailer founded too
:53:14. > :53:18.expensive to fix so it went straight to landfill. Now, they are
:53:18. > :53:23.donating it here and it will be sold off to people who could not
:53:23. > :53:28.have afforded its original price. The demand for this sort of cut-
:53:28. > :53:32.price new furniture has not just grown, it has exploded as in comes
:53:32. > :53:37.have been squeezed. There are about 200 companies around the country
:53:37. > :53:42.doing this sort of thing. It is thought there is plenty of scope
:53:42. > :53:48.for more of them. The problem is getting the finance to set them up.
:53:48. > :53:53.The banks just do not want to know. That is because they are legally
:53:53. > :53:59.social enterprises. They charity status and profits per back into
:53:59. > :54:06.the business. To expand, they have to look for alternative funding.
:54:06. > :54:11.am Matt Smith and I work for Key Fund. We provide loans to social
:54:11. > :54:17.enterprise services. We want to work with them and a requirement of
:54:17. > :54:24.funding is they have been turned down by the bank. At the moment, it
:54:24. > :54:29.is very easy to get to that refusal from a bank. Refurnish's link-up
:54:29. > :54:34.with Key Fund has allowed them to open extra show rooms in Yorkshire.
:54:34. > :54:38.It says banks are reluctant to provide finance for its target
:54:38. > :54:48.market, the low-paid, those on benefits and pensioners, so many of
:54:48. > :54:54.those are turning to the new loan companies. This week, concerned MPs
:54:54. > :55:02.questioned a senior executive of Wonga.com. The banks have not made
:55:02. > :55:07.an adequate system for short-term loans for customers. If they did
:55:07. > :55:12.that, we would not be needed. are happy to compete with banks.
:55:12. > :55:17.That is not good enough say the social enterprises. Many are trying
:55:17. > :55:21.to bypass expensive lenders by linking up with community based
:55:21. > :55:26.providers of cheaper personal loans. The funding available for all this
:55:26. > :55:32.work is severely limited. Unless the banks start lending more, the
:55:32. > :55:36.poorest could well be pushed into further hardship. If social
:55:36. > :55:44.enterprises cannot borrow, this is the breakdown of "big society"?
:55:44. > :55:48.is a problem. -- it is a problem. It was to get money flowing. Thanks
:55:48. > :55:53.to a change in the law, the money from bank accounts has been
:55:53. > :56:01.channelled into that, along with money from banks themselves. --
:56:01. > :56:05.dormant bank accounts. We need a lot more. We were promised hundreds
:56:05. > :56:11.of millions of pounds. We are hearing these complaints that the
:56:11. > :56:16.banks are not lending. It is staggering that the taxpayer owned
:56:16. > :56:19.most of these two big banks and we cannot get them to lend to social
:56:19. > :56:26.enterprises or the public. It is time for us to re-examine their
:56:26. > :56:32.leader idea of using the Post Office. -- re examine a Labour idea.
:56:32. > :56:38.They day loans have been in the news this week. -- pay-day loans.
:56:38. > :56:43.These companies are charging 4,000 % APR. Should the government
:56:43. > :56:48.regulator? A I would urge people to look into credit unions. The
:56:48. > :56:52.problem with acting too quickly as we end up in the position, the last
:56:53. > :56:58.thing we want, where we take a day's hike cost Credit and there is
:56:58. > :57:04.no lending to these people and they end up in hands of illegal loan
:57:04. > :57:08.sharks. There are debates in Parliament about this all time. It
:57:08. > :57:12.is not just as simple as saying, take them at the market. But could
:57:12. > :57:19.drive people into the hands of people who collect the money with
:57:19. > :57:23.the baseball bat. Greg it unions are the future. -- credit unions.
:57:23. > :57:33.We have lost building societies. They have become banks and we know
:57:33. > :57:37.
:57:37. > :57:44.what happens to them. Now the 60 minute -- 62nd round up. -- 62nd
:57:44. > :57:51.round up. Celebrations this week as the root of the Tour de France
:57:51. > :57:56.through Yorkshire is announced. people of Yorkshire are excited,
:57:56. > :58:03.enthusiastic and pride. We will the Government chip in to help our
:58:03. > :58:10.local councils pay the stating costs? Horsemeat in beefburgers.
:58:10. > :58:16.Mary Creagh wants to know why. People will be upset and horrified
:58:16. > :58:21.that this has happened. This part of England has had a large influx
:58:21. > :58:25.of immigrants. Worries about a possible new wave of immigration
:58:25. > :58:31.from Romania and Bulgaria were raised when the BBC's question time
:58:31. > :58:36.came from London. I think it is irresponsible, wrong, and stupid.
:58:36. > :58:45.The question was, can public services cope? A I think we should
:58:45. > :58:48.be mindful of pressures put on public services. Real worries.
:58:48. > :58:55.About what could happen when the Romanians are about to live and
:58:55. > :59:05.work in this country. Are they ballot? They do have some validity.
:59:05. > :59:10.-- father worries valid? We should consider further protection against
:59:10. > :59:15.exploitation of people coming across. I do not think they should
:59:15. > :59:20.allow was to get into a sense of panic about this. The real problem
:59:20. > :59:23.is we do not have living wages paid to people who were doing manual
:59:23. > :59:28.work. That allows people coming in from Romania and Bulgaria to
:59:28. > :59:34.depress those wages. Many people fear the Romanians will work for
:59:34. > :59:37.cheaper wages than the Eastern European migrants we have at the
:59:38. > :59:45.moment. In has caused a huge problem in my constituency. We have
:59:45. > :59:50.had a big influx. They are working hard but it has put pressure on
:59:50. > :59:59.public services. Whether we stay in the EU or not, something has to be
:59:59. > :00:03.done about this. Something needs to be done about people entering the
:00:03. > :00:07.country, seeking work and entering the benefits system. It is causing
:00:07. > :00:10.resentment. The was a report recently that said it was unlikely
:00:11. > :00:18.we will get Romanians in the numbers we had Polish people
:00:18. > :00:24.because of the historic links between Poland and the UK. Some are
:00:24. > :00:31.men on bikes are coming for France. The Tour de France organisers, they
:00:31. > :00:35.have missed out there will on the route. It is an outrage. They have
:00:35. > :00:40.missed out the Humber Bridge as well. They are coming to Yorkshire,
:00:40. > :00:45.that is going to be fantastic. It will be a lot of money in. At 80%
:00:45. > :00:49.of Yorkshire people are within an hour of where it is coming. We may
:00:49. > :00:59.not get the riders, but we will get the tourists taking a right turn
:00:59. > :01:00.
:01:00. > :01:05.and coming to East Yorkshire. are coming to my constituency.
:01:05. > :01:12.delighted. I will not be a good to keep up with them. You might need
:01:12. > :01:19.what Lance on Strong has! -- Lance Armstrong. Should the government
:01:19. > :01:24.help with the cost? When we had the debate in Westminster, the Sports
:01:24. > :01:31.Minister said there up routes to government funding that could be
:01:31. > :01:38.opened potentially. The region is going to benefit to the tune of
:01:38. > :01:43.tens of millions of pounds. It will be �6 million well spent. There
:01:43. > :01:53.Government did offer money to Scotland to help support Aidan ruff
:01:53. > :01:59.
:01:59. > :02:09.in Edinburgh had won this. They did not so we want this. -- to help
:02:09. > :02:14.
:02:14. > :02:21.support Aidan ruff if Edinburgh had won this. -- Edinburgh. We just
:02:21. > :02:31.need to guarantee the weather. we hold Nick Clegg to account for
:02:31. > :02:31.